| Author |
Message |
    
Greg Waggy
Registered
Username: Gawnca
Post Number: 23
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 07:35 pm: | 
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John,
I wonder how that works? I was thinking along the lines or oil drenching for hardening. |
John_H
Registered
Username: John_h
Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 07:39 pm: |
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Hi Greg,
Click on the enco page where it says "Master Catalog Page 648", they say how it works.
John |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 439
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 07:46 pm: |
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Kasenit is good for case-hardening small parts such as the pinion gears. Parts need to be red hot before being dunked into the Kasenit. You are going to need a long oven and a lot of Kasenit before you can dunk a rail.... Plus, you have the usual heat-distortion problems. |
Greg Waggy
Registered
Username: Gawnca
Post Number: 24
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 07:46 pm: |
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Thanks John, I just looked it up in my catalog. I guess its just a dip process and for small parts it looks like it would work. I wonder if you leave the part longer if the hardness gets deeper. $9.71 (on sale)a quart isn't too bad. I have dealt with Enco and they are good. |
Greg Waggy
Registered
Username: Gawnca
Post Number: 25
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 07:49 pm: |
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Well, here's the scoop I just got on Kasenit.
Notes:
Produces a wear surface (surface hardening) on low carbon steel, low alloy steel, iron.
Non-poisonous, non-explosive.
Application instructions (from Kasenit) for Low Alloy or Low Carbon Steel:
There are two methods of application.
Method A: Heat the work uniformly to a bright red (1650 - 1700 degrees F), remove any scale with a wire brush, dip, roll or sprinkle the Kasenit powder on the component. The powder will melt and adhere to the surface, forming a shell around the work. Reheat to 1650 - 1700 degrees F, hold at this temperature for a few minutes and quench in to clean cold water. This will give the component a completely hard case of uniform character and depth.
Method B: If a deeper case is required, then a container for the compound can be used. A discarded can, lid or tray is suitable for this purpose, but care must be taken to burn off the tin coating before use. Completely cover the component with compound and heat to a bright red (1650 degrees F) for five to thirty minutes, depending upon the depth of case required. Quench only the component in clean, cold water unsing dry tongs for handling.
Rates of Penetration: After heating the component to 1650 F using method B,
Case depth .005, Time 15 minutes
Case depth .010, Time 30 minutes
Case depth .015, Time 40 minutes
Case depth .020, Time 50-55 minutes
Method for Cast or Tool Steel:
Heat the article to a light yellow. Deposit it in powder and leave it there until its right tempering heat is reached (see list below). Then plunge the metal into clean, cold water. This will bring out the hardness and also prevent cracking.
Heat Tempering List:
Small cutting or turning tools, cutting edges of knives, planing tools and reamers, small case hardened parts:
Light straw color, 440 F
Carbon steel milling cutters, large cutting or turning tools, slotting tools and small punches or dies:
Straw color, 460 F
Drills, small taps, profile cutters, screwing dies and hammers:
Dark straw, 480 F
Press dies, shears, wood cutting tools:
Orange, 500 F
Chisels, large punches, pressing dies and cutlery:
Light purple, 525 F
Saws, drifts, large dies and heavy chisels:
Purple, 540 F
Springs or portions of tools to be locally tempered to give maximum resilience:
Blue, 560 F |
John_H
Registered
Username: John_h
Post Number: 17
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 07:51 pm: |
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Greg,
.020 is very good depth. I use enco a lot.
I was thinking more along the lines of the bearings
for the Kasenit...At least something would be
hardened. I do get your point though...distortion.
John |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 440
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 07:56 pm: |
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Okay guys, this is the RAIL thread. Case-hardening is not suitable for the rails. In fact, let's not create a perception that the rails need hardening. |
Greg Waggy
Registered
Username: Gawnca
Post Number: 26
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 08:07 pm: |
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Sorry Gerald. I guess we were just trying to figure out a way (reason) to harden rails. The place you sent me are WAY out of line for pricing. I agree, if you have good bearings and the wheels on those bearings are smooth, you shouldn't need to harden the rails. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 441
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 08:13 pm: |
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Forget about Kasenit hardening of the wheels as well - they won't be round after that process because it is a relatively thin ring. The pinion gears are a different story - they are "chunky" and have no noticeable distortion.
Back to cutting a V-cap on those rails now...... |
John_H
Registered
Username: John_h
Post Number: 20
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 08:14 pm: |
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Here's a crude sketch of supporting rails as they're being ground, using homemade rollers from short
section of pipe.
John |
Greg Waggy
Registered
Username: Gawnca
Post Number: 27
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 08:24 pm: |
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Gerald,
I guess I'll move the wheel conversation to that thread.
As for the rails, as I was saying, invert a piece of angle iron on the table you intend to grind on and then attach the raw material to that then slide it across your grinder.
Sorry |
John_H
Registered
Username: John_h
Post Number: 21
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 08:27 pm: |
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Greg,
Did you see my last "crude sketch"?
that's exactly what I was suggesting.
here...
http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/11/820.html
John |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 442
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 08:39 pm: |
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My milling machine guy did the following things:
1. Used a single 45 degree bevel cutter with flat bottom:
no tool changes, no need to calibrate various tools
2. Screwed a solid back fence to the milling machine table. 150 x 15mm flat bar. Skimmed a reference face on the front face of this flat bar, parallel to the long axis.
3. Rigged up trestles on both sides of the milling machine to carry the weight of rail that wasn't supported by the table.
4. Rigged clamps to hold the rail down to the bed, rigged wedges to push the rail against the parallel back fence
5. Cut the three faces.
He did say that in future he would think of having some loaded rollers (or greased guide plates) so that he could simply push the rail through while the cutter position stayed fixed. The actual cut is very light.
(I wouldn't give the milling guy a set of pre-drilled holes because they are too small and far apart for milling forces. Let him take full responsibility for his clamping) |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 443
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 08:43 pm: |
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Didn't see the last few posts while I was typing...
Check the diameter of a grinding wheel needed for 45 degrees on the inside of the angle iron...(112.6mm max)
Sure, a grinding system can be constructed, but it is not as simple as the gauge-plate/table-saw arrangement. The milling machine method does work as well. |
John_H
Registered
Username: John_h
Post Number: 22
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 08:48 pm: |
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Fortunately I have a mill, and that's how I'd do
it. My idea's with the grinder are mainly for
the guy who doesn't.
Just trying to add some options for those guy's
to look at 
John |
Greg Waggy
Registered
Username: Gawnca
Post Number: 29
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 08:52 pm: |
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Gerald, Now that cutter would work very nicely. ENCO has them ranging in price from $22.00 USD to $35.00 USD. That's not a bad price range. Just double cut each side of the rail and you are done. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 444
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 09:01 pm: |
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Here is another exotic option: Plate beveller. Almost like running a woodwork router along an edge....... |
Greg Waggy
Registered
Username: Gawnca
Post Number: 30
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 09:07 pm: |
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It's produced by http://www.heckind.net/products.htm I guess you have to write for prices but their 3000 model would work for what we are doing. |
Greg Waggy
Registered
Username: Gawnca
Post Number: 31
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 09:08 pm: |
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Maby this one would be better.
http://www.heckind.net/benchbeveler/benchbeveler.html |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 445
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 09:11 pm: |
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Some more - notice the modified angle-grinder concept..... |
Greg Waggy
Registered
Username: Gawnca
Post Number: 32
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 09:16 pm: |
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Here's another toy we could make using these ideas. An inverted router on a table with the right bits and fence would allow you to do the same thing.... When that CNC Mill isn't being used you could use the 3 1/2 HP router to make other things. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 446
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 09:22 pm: |
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A 3 1/2 HP router doesn't like putting out power at less than 15 000 rpm, what cutter will cut steel at that speed? Drill press speeds are more suitable........ |
Rails & Rollers