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  #1  
Old Tue 16 October 2007, 11:36
zetacnc
Just call me: Fabio
 
Atibaia
Brazil
New MechMate painted, with experimental control box - Atibaia, Brazil

Hello,

My name is Fabio Gilii, and sorry if my English is not so good!

The machine will have 2000 x 1300 mm utile area, and is going well until now.

Attached some photos of the structure and material - I'm waiting for laser cut parts this week!

Thank you Mr. Gerald for your verư well detailed plans and attention...(sorry for the quality of the photos)
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  #2  
Old Tue 16 October 2007, 15:15
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to Alan_c
Welcome Fabio

Looks like you are off to a great start - I envy your well equipped workshop.

What are the specs on those stepper motors, how big is the spindle?

Alan
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  #3  
Old Tue 16 October 2007, 16:55
zetacnc
Just call me: Fabio
 
Atibaia
Brazil
Alan,

Thank you for the wellcome!

These motors are Nema 34 size and 3.5 Nm only, but I'll mount them with a 3.6:1 belt reduction each, running 20 teeth pinion on 1.5 modulus rack (20 teeth mod 1.5 is equal 30mm primitive diameter and 94.2 mm perimeter)

The spindle is a Brazillian brand spindle rated at 18000 rpm (1CV), angular contact bearings, with ER16 nose to install ER collects.

The inverter is WEG brand rated at 300 Hz top frequency...

My shop is very small (as you can see in the photos) and making that big machine is being a little problem of space to use the manhines..

I have two lathes and two knee milling machine (one selfmade and one 1959 Brdgeport)
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  #4  
Old Tue 16 October 2007, 20:20
driller
Just call me:
 
can you tell us more about the spindle ?

model and manufacturer ?

Dave
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  #5  
Old Tue 16 October 2007, 23:56
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Welcome Fabio!

The WEG name has become very strong in South Africa. They also have very good prices on inverters for us. (Alan, the agents are "Zest" in Montague Gardens. They are my first choice in motors for the factory)
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  #6  
Old Wed 17 October 2007, 07:09
ldorta
Just call me: Leandro
 
Curitiba (PR)
Brazil
Hi Fabio... welcome to the mechmate forum too...
It's good to see that there are more people in Brazil building the mechmate.

Leandro
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  #7  
Old Wed 17 October 2007, 11:06
zetacnc
Just call me: Fabio
 
Atibaia
Brazil
Quote:
Originally Posted by driller View Post
can you tell us more about the spindle ? - model and manufacturer ?
Dave,
I believe these motors are based on a famous Italian brand named Elte.

The manufacturer is named "Tecmaf", and attached is a PDF doc with some motor specs...(model TMM-10-0110)

It's my first buy from this manufacturer, and i opted to buy it based on the fact that is a local manufacturer (guarantee, pieces and maintenance) even if the price is a little bit high - equivalent to US$850,00

Gerald,
I believe that WEG is the biggest electric motor and electric components manufacturer here in Brazil, and probably in South America!

Is also my first choice when ii think in electric motors...

Leandro,

Nice to see you here too!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf TMM-01-0110.pdf (79.0 KB, 322 views)
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  #8  
Old Wed 17 October 2007, 13:33
ldorta
Just call me: Leandro
 
Curitiba (PR)
Brazil
Fabio, which drivers and bob are you using? Are the motors bipolar or unipolar, and they are from action motors?

Best regards

Leandro
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  #9  
Old Wed 17 October 2007, 19:04
zetacnc
Just call me: Fabio
 
Atibaia
Brazil
Leandro,

Yes - the motors came from Action Motors - they are bipolars (8 wires), 3,2 Nm.

The drivers are bipolar also, and rated for 3,5A/phase and 45VDC (or 32VAC)

The bob have full opto insulated I/O and can drive 3 relays (two 10A and one 20A)
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  #10  
Old Fri 02 November 2007, 12:36
zetacnc
Just call me: Fabio
 
Atibaia
Brazil
Well,

Two weeks ago I was dealing with a very big frame being mounted in a very restricted area, and a laser supplier that forgot to cut some pieces and some internal details!!! Incredible how some persons have the capacity to make wrong things...

After some hard work I'm still figthing against space (the lack of ) and now i'll start do deal with the belt gear reductions and electrical installation...

Next week I want to send entire machine (dismantled) to sand blast and powder painting...

The last photo is the solution I found for "X" rail because It was impossible do find a good "U" beam as plans claims and the one I found has a big radius at corner...

Some pictures so far (sorry the poor quality...)
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  #11  
Old Sun 18 November 2007, 17:39
zetacnc
Just call me: Fabio
 
Atibaia
Brazil
Hello MM fans,

I hope next week will be time to make chips!!!

I'm only waiting some pieces arrive to conclude MechMate Machine...

I hope you enjoy!
Attached Images
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  #12  
Old Sun 18 November 2007, 17:51
gmessler
Just call me: Greg #15
 
Chicago IL
United States of America
Fabio,

The machine looks great! Interesting color for the y car
Keep us posted on the chip making.
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  #13  
Old Sun 18 November 2007, 17:52
gmessler
Just call me: Greg #15
 
Chicago IL
United States of America
aren't you worried about sawdust in you control panel?
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  #14  
Old Sun 18 November 2007, 18:18
zetacnc
Just call me: Fabio
 
Atibaia
Brazil
Greg,

Well - I put two "grills" (sorry - don't know the name in English) with air filters - one in each side of the panel.

There are also a fan that pumps air from inside to outside - installed in the right hand...

I hope sawdust stay outside for a while... (in the photo, left grill is still without filter)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg img_4680.jpg (177.5 KB, 1912 views)
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  #15  
Old Sun 18 November 2007, 20:01
Doug_Ford
Just call me: Doug #3
 
Conway (Arkansas)
United States of America
It looks beautiful Fabio. Congratulations.
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  #16  
Old Sun 18 November 2007, 21:28
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
WOW. That was a quick build.....and what a nice machine! Now I wish I had a really nice spindle....Sean
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  #17  
Old Sun 18 November 2007, 23:52
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Fabio, it looks pretty, but I expect serious problems with your control box. That transformer makes a lot of noise (electrical interference) and heat. The spindle drive (VFD) makes even a lot more electrical noise (also some heat). Your control break-out board is directly under the motor wires, and close to the VFD and the big transformer. Let us hope that you do not have problems . . . . .
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  #18  
Old Mon 19 November 2007, 04:14
zetacnc
Just call me: Fabio
 
Atibaia
Brazil
Doug,

Thank you !

Sean,

I talked to Gerald about spindles, and soon I'll post some ideas in the advertising section regarding spindles - maybe will be a strong possibility to you finnaly own one !

Gerald,

Yes - I know it's a risk to put VFD together with stepper drives... but I decided to experiment to see what will happen...

I'm prepared also to try an idea - to create a "Faraday Cage" and put the VFD inside!
I don't know if will work in fact, but i's valid to prove a concept...

For the heat, I hope the fan take a good parcel to outside - it's also another experiment...

If I take VFD and transformer outside the gabinet, it's OK, but will be Ugly (functional but ugly)
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  #19  
Old Tue 04 December 2007, 09:47
zetacnc
Just call me: Fabio
 
Atibaia
Brazil
Hello all,

These are photos taken this weekend - the machine is ready to rock with all the belt reduction installed and tested.

It's soon to say but the best thing I discovered was the VFD inside panel did not interfered in any moment with the drivers...

The spindle motor became quite hot after 30 minutes running at 12000 rpm when was doing ligth cuts to experiment, and this week will talk to the manufacturer about this, but it proved to be very powerfull...

The maximum velocity reached 21 meters/minute (830 in/minute), but i limited to near 15 meters/minute (590 in/minute)

I hope you enjoy...
Attached Images
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  #20  
Old Wed 05 December 2007, 00:27
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to Alan_c
Well done Fabio - looking good.

Nice neat bit of engineering on the reduction drives.

When you say the maximum speed was at 21m/min was that the max possible from your computer system or did you start losing steps. With those stepper motors and spindle what do you expect to be your fastest practical cutting speed?
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  #21  
Old Wed 05 December 2007, 00:41
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
For the hot spindle, you can also try a "reactor":

http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.e...promo=200MTERL

I use the reactor on somebody else's recommendation, and I don't know exactly how much different the temperature.

http://www.ekstromcarlson.com/router_packages.htm
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  #22  
Old Wed 05 December 2007, 08:03
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Hey Gerald...that looks familiar. And darn it's heavy
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  #23  
Old Wed 05 December 2007, 08:40
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Sean, I have past experience of Galco including a slab of chocolate in the box. . . . . . . .
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  #24  
Old Wed 05 December 2007, 12:48
zetacnc
Just call me: Fabio
 
Atibaia
Brazil
Alan,

Thanks - this was the solution I found in place for very expensive ready made commercial planetary reductions...

It took me 3 ou 4 days on my old milling machine, but I liked the final results...

21 m/min was the maximum before loose steps, but the curious was that only in the "X" axis - at "Y" axis I did not noted any tendency to loose steps.

I choose to derate maximum speed to near 15 meters/minute, because I think this is good to move at G00...

I start to build some router bits (tungsten carbide) to start speed tests, but I expect something near 7 or 8 meters/minute @ 14000 (to 18000 top speed), a very respectable speed for me...

Last edited by zetacnc; Wed 05 December 2007 at 12:56..
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  #25  
Old Wed 05 December 2007, 12:54
zetacnc
Just call me: Fabio
 
Atibaia
Brazil
Gerald,

Thank for the link.
I don't know if this kink of equipment I can find here in my country, but sure i'll search...

Let me ask you a question, because it's the firs time i use a spindle fast as this (with VDF):
Is it normal that spindles like Elte, Colombo, or any other like that to heat when is working?
In the upper part of the spindle (the back plate) there is a small fan, but even blowing some aiir over the motor, the temperature was unconfortably high...
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  #26  
Old Wed 05 December 2007, 13:23
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
I think that I could hold my hand on our spindle for longer than 5 minutes. Some of the other guys measure their spindle temperatures daily to check the bearing life, but I have forgotten what typical temperatures they measure.
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  #27  
Old Wed 05 December 2007, 16:53
Richards
Just call me: Mike
 
South Jordan, UT
United States of America
My Colombo spindle has bearings that are rated up to 140F. I try to hold the temperatures to a more moderate 120F by reading the spindle's housing regularly with an infrared thermometer. When the spindle is running too hot, sometimes the best solution is to increase the chipload. The wood chips carry heat away from the cutter. If the cutter is running cool, it won't pass heat along to the spindle. At least one Colombo user burned up the bearings on his spindle in a matter of hours by running the spindle at high RPM with the feed speed low.

Last edited by Richards; Wed 05 December 2007 at 16:56..
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  #28  
Old Wed 05 December 2007, 17:41
zetacnc
Just call me: Fabio
 
Atibaia
Brazil
Gerald and Mike,

I'm very impressed with your experience with spindle temperature - after a 30 minutes run I doubt i can hold my hand over spindle housing for more than some seconds...

140F is equivalent to 60° Celcius - it's very "cold" - my spindle is far more hot than this...

Ok - this week I'll send to the manufacturer to see if it's everything Ok..
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  #29  
Old Wed 05 December 2007, 17:43
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richards View Post
When the spindle is running too hot, sometimes the best solution is to increase the chipload. The wood chips carry heat away from the cutter. If the cutter is running cool, it won't pass heat along to the spindle.
That is extremely interesting !! I never would have thought to increase the chipload to decrease bearing temp.

Can the same "thing" be said for routers?
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  #30  
Old Wed 05 December 2007, 18:00
zetacnc
Just call me: Fabio
 
Atibaia
Brazil
Greg,

Increasing the chipload to decrease bearing temp is very interesting indeed!

I think that will be true to big routers with lot of power...
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