Cable chain - E-Chain sizes & sources

[Evan Curtis]

Gerald,
Where did you get your E-chain and which brand and model #? I'm thinking it's time to straighten out that rat's nest of wires hanging off the X-gantry.

[Gerald_D]

Main chain, Igus 250.09.100.0, $60/meter
Mounting Brackets, Igus 2090.12PZB, $12/pair

The .09. denotes internal width of 90 (89) mm. 07 denoting 75mm is also available

The .100. denotes bend radius. 075 denoting 75mm is also available, and also 050 denoting 50mm.

[vadeem]

What size E chain is required for the MechMate?

I see in the catalog they have sizes 3/4" to 5" wide.

Thanks

[Gerald_D]

Below is a reference to the one I used. I think it is 100mm wide by 36mm high.

But I believe that IGUS is over-rated and over-priced. There must be cheaper versions out there. Google "cable chain" or "drag chain" or "cable drag chain".

[David Rosenbleeth]

I recently got more than enough for my Y straight from Igus for $65.00. For around $180. I could have gotten enough for both x and y. Their rep was very helpful. I think it was the 1 3/4" x 1" (internal space) chain with the flip open tops so I didn't have to rerun hardly any cables.

[Gerald_D]

David, that is affordable. The Igus office here doesn't have a wide selection, and I think you will agree that $20 per foot is too much. Have you perhaps got part numbers? or a number molded into the links?

[DocTanner]

Reza,
This is more than enough Cable carrier to do a 4X8 Mechmate. You will have to fabricate your own support brackets and attachments.

From www.mcmaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com)
2 sets - 4516T283 (Same as 4516T28)
Open Feed-Through Style Cable & Hose Carrier 1.38" H X 3.66" W Overall Sz, 3.94" Bend Radius, 6'L
In stock at $92.16 Each
2 sets 4556T582 (Same as 4556T58)
Mounting Bracket for Cable and Hose Carrier Open Style, 1.38" H X 3.66" W Overall
In stock at $9.68 per Set

While you are ordering you might want to get these:
1 package 9654K324
Steel Extension Spring 4-1/8" Length, 9/16" OD, .08" Wire
In stock at $12.14 per Pack
This product is sold in Packs of 6
In stock at $12.14 per Pack
9416K181 (Same as 9416K18)
1 each - Gas Spring with Threaded Ends 20 Force, 18.22" Extended Length, 7.87" Stroke
In stock at $12.46 Each <--- I'm using 3 1/2hp Milwaukee Router


DocTanner

[reza forushani]

Thanks Doc
Let me understand. Do I not need two chains for the -axis, one for each side, and then one for the gantry(y-axis). So, I need 3. Right?

[Gerald_D]

Reza, because e-chain is so expensive here, we only have one chain on the gantry. Under the x-axis we have a hanging loop.

But, if you can afford e-chain for the x-axis, you only need one. The wires to the other x-motor go through the gantry - through the big holes in parts 10-20-456.

Total number of e-chains = 2 (max)

[Gerald_D]

I think the Igus part no., of the chain that Doc got from McMaster, is 200-07-100-0 (http://www.igus.com/igus/wech4_i.asp?part=200-07-100-0&series=200&group=E-Chain%20E2%20Mid-Size), but you need to specify the length if buying from Igus. Length is half Y plus 400mm [16"] for the curve and over-travel. (Check carefully - this stuff is expensive!)

http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/3347/3349.gif

And you definitely need those end mounting brackets - one set per chain. Igus number: 2070-12 (we discarded the "tie-wraps" (ZB part?))

[Gerald_D]

Thanks for the kind offer Reza - sometime we may take you up on it. (PS. I am supposed to be in Atlanta for the WasteExpo in May)

If I were buying from Kabelschlepp (http://www.kabelschlepp.com/plastitrak.htm) (the original cable chain inventors), I would probably select: Plastitrak 450.60 KR3.70 with a set of simple end brackets. Recommended sizing changed Nov. '07

I have clip-open links, but we are not packing tightly into the chain and it turned out that we fed the cables through without opening the links. Realise that the diagrams show top opening links, but in reality half the chain is upside down (on a tray/support) making the opening impractical. Thus, opening links are a luxury that can be dispensed for better price, if applicable.

[Gerald_D]

Recommended sizing changed Nov. '07

An option from Italy, www.brevettistendalto.it (http://www.brevettistendalto.it), represented worldwide. There I might go for SR325060100.....

Another German option, www.murrplastik.com (http://www.murrplastik.com/pages/Cable_drag.tpl) represented worldwide, maybe the MP26 0260 062 095 0000

In India, Kumbhojkar? Plastic Moulders (http://www.plamoulds.com/prod_drachn_ccs.html) model DC-4

[Gerald_D]

Large parts of the cable runs do not need to flex in a cable chain. See section A-B below:

http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/3347/3362.gif

It is not necessary to purchase expensive cable chain for these sections. Typically, folk use bent up channels from sheetmetal, but these are big dust collectors. Perforated cable tray (http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=IRFA%2CIRFA:2006-24%2CIRFA:en&q=perforated%20cable%20tray&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi), or cable ladder (http://images.google.com/images?q=cable+ladder&ndsp=20&svnum=10&hl=en&safe=off&rls=IRFA%2CIRFA:2006-24%2CIRFA:en&start=0&sa=N) are just just the trick for this application. The "holier", the better - dust must fall through. A modified plant trellis (http://images.google.com/images?q=ladder+trellis&svnum=10&hl=en&safe=off&rls=IRFA%2CIRFA:2006-24%2CIRFA:en&start=20&sa=N&ndsp=20) from Walmart may even work! http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/clipart/happy.gif

The beauty of a tray or ladder is the ability to neatly separate the high-power (motors/router/spindle) cables from each other and from the signal cables. With all-shielded cables, the separation is not that necessary, but we will rather be safe.

Once I have a better idea which chains and perforated trays are available to all of you, I will do some drawings on the bracketry for hanging this all off the one side of the gantry. Our brackets are attached to the gantry tubes with self-tapping screws. (No welding or paint damage required) Pictures (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3)

[David Rosenbleeth]

Gerald:
The part number is 240-05-075 for the chain and 2050-34PZB for the brackets.
This is their E-2 chain.

[Pascal Riendeau]

Hi all! Hey Gerald!

I've just registered (after months of spying on you all! Hi, hi!) and just want to say hello first... OK, now that it's done lets move on.

Here's what I've done on my tool. (http://pacosarea.blogspot.com/2007/02/wires-guide-for-my-cnc-router.html) It's rather simple yet very efficient. I'm very happy with it and way proud to finally post about it after several requests for details and pictures.

http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/3347/3439.jpg

Let me know what you think!

[Gerald_D]

Welcome Pascal!

Our friend here has a low ceiling above his ShopBot, so he had to find a flat route for his dust hose as well. Click on his link to see a lot more.

[J.R. Hatcher]

does anyone know what the radius of the e-chain needs to be. it is important so it will lay flat. i am making some and will share with everyone if it works. thanks

[Gerald_D]

Not sure I understand your question....

The cable chain must:
- prevent the cables from bending tighter than about 75-100mm [3-4"] radius
- not stretch/shorten the cable as it works (the cable passes through the center of the hinges - Pascal's system stretches the cable as it straightens out)

[grandpi]

Gérald, Paco,

Readind your topic about cable chain on the old forum, i 'm going to order at Igus shop the cable chain (250.09.100.0) but concerning the length, i'm a bit lost :
My Y is 2070mm so if i consider your suggestion the length choice is (2070/2)+406,4mm = 1441,4 mm. Automatically, on the Igus french site , after typing the 1441,4mm, i have the result of 1150 mm for the chain length ?? It seems to be too short for me ??:confused:

Paco : What is , please, the translation of the word "la course du porte cable" of the french igus cable chain web site ?? Is it different from the chain length??:confused:

Thank you.

Pierre.

[grandpi]

Gerald,

If you could have a look at the french web site cable chain choice page to answer me : http://www.igus.fr/iPro/iPro_01_0004_03_FRfr.htm?ArtNr=&C=FR&L=fr

Thanks.

Pierre.

[grandpi]

Gerald,

I directly introduce on the Igus web site page the 2070mm and finally i have a cable chain length of 1472mm :rolleyes:: not too much different from your calculation way (1441,4mm). Is it correct ???

Thanks.

Pierre.

[Gerald D]

That chain has a pitch of 46mm between links. 5 or 6 links make the full 180 degree bend - let us use 6 links as the worst possibility. Therefore, 276mm of the chain is used by the bend. Your Y is 2070, therefore the MechMate will allow the y-car to move a total of 2170mm. Divide 2170 by 2 = 1085mm. Add 276mm = 1361. Divide by 46mm = 29.5 links. Therefore the minimum links are 30 and the minimum length is 30 x 46 = 1380mm

The formula of Igus is designed to sell chain - their result is a bit more than what is really required. They add 2 more links. (Their CAD drawing shows only 6 links in the curve, that is also what we see in real life)

http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/3347/3464.jpg

[grandpi]

Thanks Gerald.:):)

[J.R. Hatcher]

Gerald this was my original plan, to run EMT conduit from the X track around the corner to the Y track. These compression connectors make it very stout. I kept the conduit to the right side of the X bracket so I could drill a hole on the left to accommodate the wires for the X motors. I'm thinking about running the 120 AC line for the router with the dust collector pipe (completely away from all other wires) or just tie wrap it to the outside of the conduit. All suggestions are welcome. thanks

[Gerald D]

Remember that the conduit must take 5 cables (z-motor, y-motor, E-stop, pushbuttons, ground) - 6 cables if the router/spindle is included - 7 cables if the spindle has a fan and thermistor.

[J.R. Hatcher]

Now to finish what I was trying to say in post 64. I kept the conduit to the right on the X bracket so I could put another one to the left when Gerald realized the one was not going to accommodate all the wires needed.:D:rolleyes: I never thought I would need that many wires. Thanks for catching that Gerald.

Thank you Hugo for the encouraging words.

[Hugo Carradini]

Hello "super" J.R:D My back hurts just thinking you move that by your self.
¿Can you tell me where you buy your cable tracks and specifications of the track?
Thanks

[J.R. Hatcher]

Hugo go to http://www.msnusers.com/ncmechmate/d...nw?fc_a=0&fc_p= (http://www.msnusers.com/ncmechmate/d...nw?fc_a=0&fc_p=)there you will see a link to a spreadsheet, the info about the cable chain is in it, lines 13, 14, 16, 17. thanks J.R. ps when I double click the spreadsheet link it opens up.

[Hugo Carradini]

Hello Gerald.
Here are some post of the progress. Hope to have the machine moving on Saturday. I have a new problem.:confused: I got 100 foot of cable for the motors and if I want to put the control box out side the machine like the original desing, with space to move arround, the cables are not long enough, so I am building the control box in a side of the table . I will post some pictures tomorrow.
Regards.

[Gerald D]

Hi Hugo

Some good ideas there!

Your plastic cable chains are a bit "unusual":

- They bend to a smaller diameter than the what I have seen before. Who is the supplier and part number?

- You run the cable chains in the opposite direction to what is on the drawing. Have you considered where is the "front" of your machine, and have you got the cable chains at the back? Or do you want to show the chains in the front?

[Hugo Carradini]

Gerald the chain track is from Igus. I buy in MSC http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRVSM?PACACHE=000000029449345 and http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRVSM?PACACHE=000000029449707 .
Yes, you are right.:o I was so exited about the cable track, the cables and the idea that the "moment" was getting closer that stop thinking and that is the result. Any way, this will be my learning machine (I have welded and unwelded, painted and repainted many times that I will just leave it that way for the moment) . I am committed to have the "beast" cutting on Monday.;)

Gerald, This are the MSC Catalog #04234639 and 04234654 for the cable chain and the bracket.

[Gerald D]

The x-axis chain carries only 2 more cables then the y-axis chain - it might as well be the same size. My current suggestion on cable chain suppliers and part numbers in the USA:

Igus part 20-2-075-0 (http://www.igus.com/igus/wech4_i.asp?part=20-2-075-0&series=20&group=E-Chain%20E2%20Mid-Size) .98H x 1.5W x 2.95R. End bracket set 202-12 (http://www.igus.com/igus/wech_brc_i.asp?bracket=202-12&series=S20&prefix=20&suffix=12&width=38&desig=2)

McMAster-Carr 4516T22 0.98H x 1.5W x 3.94R (next smaller R is too small) $73.80 per 6' without end brackets - $9.68 per set of brackets (4556T56)

MSC 04234662 (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=3514) 0.98H x 2.24W x 4.92R (next smaller R is too small) $99.76 per 6' assembly including end brackets. 4.92R is too big

Please check my numbers carefully.

[Gerald D]

Sizing the cable chain . . . . . .

The ShopBotters looked for a big cable chain because they have unscreened cables and want a big distance between the cables. We can go to a neater bundle. The thickest cables are for the 110V countries. Here are the outside diameters of the typical cables in the chain: source (http://www.lappusa.com/Spec_Template.asp?nGroupID=10114)

4x Motor cables (M), 4 core, 1.0mm2 [18 AWG], diam.: 7.3mm [0.287"] (only 2 motor cables in Y-chain)
1x Router cable (R), 3 cores (maybe 2 only) 2.5mm2 [14 AWG], diam.: 8.9mm [0.35"]
1 Signals cable (S), 7 core, 0.5mm2 [21 AWG], diam.: 7.5mm [0.295"]
1 E-stop/aux. mains cable (E), 4 core, 0.5mm2 [21 AWG], 6.5mm [0.256"]
1 Ground cable (G), single core, say OD of 6mm [0.25"]
1 Air hose maybe one day - say OD 18mm [3/4"]

Drawn to scale, this is what happens with the suggested Igus part 20-2-075-0 (http://www.igus.com/igus/wech4_i.asp?part=20-2-075-0&series=20&group=E-Chain%20E2%20Mid-Size) .98H x 1.5W x 2.95R from above:

567

The shelf and bracketry for the X-chain (10 60 210 and 10 20 457) will take either the 38 or 57mm [1.5" or 2.2"] wide chains.

The Y-chain fittings are designed for the 38mm [1.5"] wide chain only

No problem to use 38mm [1.5"] chain on both axes for economy . . . . things like air hoses can be dropped from the ceiling, or a couple of other routes. (air hoses are tougher and cheaper than our cables!)

[Gerald D]

In the recommendation of post #34 I said:
" . . . . Igus part 20-2-075-0 (http://www.igus.com/igus/wech4_i.asp?part=20-2-075-0&series=20&group=E-Chain%20E2%20Mid-Size) .98H x 1.5W x 2.95R. . . . . . . (or)
. . . . . McMAster-Carr 4516T22 0.98H x 1.5W x 3.94R (next smaller R is too small)"
From this can be deduced we want a radius of about 3" or bigger. This comes from a cable supplier like Ölflex wanting a bend radius of bigger than 6X the OD of the cable. This 0.98H x 1.5W chain can also be found at various suppliers at 2.1" radius but many cable suppliers won't be happy with that. The 3" to 4" range of radius is about right. The brackets are designed at the 3" point - for 4", the bracket on the y-car needs to be slightly bent up.