Cold Air Gun Success #94 - Northern NJ USA
 

Hi everyone, I'm from Northern NJ and after reading a bunch of the postings in the forums I decided to start my own build. I will start posting pictures of the progress as soon as I get started.

Welcome to the Club - you won't be disappointed.
Good luck.
Read a lot, ask questions - be mindful of the budget vs. performance you want out of the machine.

Welcome!

Welcome to the team !!!

Thanks guys!... Just a quick question, I will be ordering the steel tomorrow from a local supplier here, Does anybody have a list of materials for the steel? I know I can probably figure it out by going through the plans but I was wondering if anybody had a list. I already ordered the Machined Parts from Mike.

Thanks in Advance,
Miguel

DAY 1 - Reviewing the Plans
 

After careful review of the plans by my helper, tomorrow I will order the right amount of steel. Lot of hard work went on today as you can see..:)

So here goes a couple of probably stupid questions. Since I am waiting for the steel to come in I figured I can start doing some planning for the electrical. I have both 110v and 220v in my building/warehouse. Which one should I go with? Also, I why do I need a VFD? I know what a VFD does as we use them at work for Blowers and conveyors, but why do I need it here? Lastly, if I need it, I have a brand new Telemequanique (sp?) Altivar 31 (3HP) at the shop, can I use this?

Thanks
Miguel

Welcome.
While you are waiting, I strongly recommend to go through the whole forum thread by threat, post by post & word by word,,,, over & over again...
The basic CNC router use a router (obviously :D). You will need a VFD to drive a spindle motor if you go the spindle way, that will incur some extra expenses. With a spindle, you can pin-point whatever cutter rpm which you fancy. Spindle motor usually runs up to 24000rpm & you need a 400Hz VFD yo get to that speed.
Size of the VFD depends on your spindle size & your spindle size depends on many factors such as the type of material you cut, your bit choice, the type of job you do, last but not the least is your inherent cutting habit.
Before you ask what Hp spindle is the best, I'll say it is just like buying any other equipment, There are no fix answer to what size spindle is best, or good enough, or best bang for the buck... no matter what you buy, they are never good enough eventually...

Ken

Thank you for your input. It's a little more clear now :).

Thanks
Miguel

DAY 2: Ordered Steel
 

So today felt really good. I contacted three different steel suppliers withing 25 miles of where I live and boy-oh-boy am I glad that I did. The price difference between them is pretty huge. I got a price quote from one place of $1,926 which was about twice of what I was expecting to pay. I found a place 3 miles down the road that will deliver for $910. (for a 9x6 table). I am going to attempt to go make a bolted frame based on Surfcnc table.

Here is what I ordered so far, I am sure I will need some more


Qty: (1) -- C8" x 13.75# X 20' C-Channel for the mail rails
Qty: (4) -- C3" x 4.1# X 20' C-Channel for cross beans and legs
Qty: (6) -- 1.5" x 1.5" x 1/8" x 20' Rectangular tube for X & Y lower bracing
Qty: (1) -- 2" x 4" x 14 Gauge x 24' Rectangular tube for the Gantry
Qty: (2) -- 2.5" x 2" x 1/4" x 20' Angle channel for the rails.

I have also ordered the laser cut parts from Mike so I am waiting for those as well.

Your one piece of C8 will allow you to build a table that will be able to cut a 97" long sheet of material, but will not cut a 9' long sheet of material, if that is indeed what you want to do?

Hi Miguel

Now they have been nice enough to provide you with a good price, it is also an idea to let them know you are building a precision machine.
Create an expectation of the quality you might be expecting in terms of the straightness of the sections etc.
Some people have discovered 4mm bows in the big X beams and had to weld them straight.
It can be fixed but take your time when you receive the steel and check over all the sections before they are in your possession for too long.

Regards
Ross

PS A surfcnc table (base) you say - I'm honoured:)

Yes :). I am ok with that.

Thanks
Miguel

If you notice in the plans, the use of the diagonal cut on the c8 beams allows for the top chord of the structural beam to be long enough to allow for this length. If you cut the beam in half, then angle cut, it wouldn't be long enough (in some cases) . Be mindful of accuracy when making that cut!

Ross;

Thanks for the tip, I didn't even think about that. This is going to be the first time I weld, so I don't know if I would be able to fix it with my welding. I can do programming but not welding :)

I will keep you all posted as to what I receive.

Thanks again
Miguel

Miguel, I posted the materials which I used to build the frame work of my MM. The price you quoted is about what I paid. Be sure to measure twice and cut once:eek:

Gary

Friendly reminder to not include text from previous post in your replies. No need to duplicate entries and clutter up the database.

Thanks Mike. I didn't realize that.

DAY 3: Received Steel and Made cuts
 

Today was a busy fun day. I received all the steel and cut what I believe is all the pieces I am going to need. It was an undertaking having to cut the C8. It came on a 20' section which means it's about 280lbs, good thing I ate my weedies this morning :).

Since I didn't own a welder and a drill press I also made a trip to the hardware store and picked up both of them. I ended up buying a Rigid 8HP 12 Speed dripp press for $214 (Was on clearance, go figure) and a Lincoln Electric 140Amp Mig welder. It look like the nicest unit that the store had that could still run on 110AC and has the ability to hook up a CO2/Air tank to it. Which reminds me, For all you guys that already have experience welding, do recommend welding with or without the CO2? Also, I was talking to this guy at the hardware store and he mentioned to me that if I was going to do frame welding I should get some Welding arrow magnets. I checked ebay and I was able to get 12 for about $24 (all different sizes, 75lbs, 50lbs and 25lbs).

Tomorrow will be trying to get all the drilling done..

using a gas mixture can make all the difference in the world. the gas shield helps greatly in reducing splatter. Also seems to be a cleaner weld, at least for me.

As far as the gas it does help with the weld splatter, but you can just use flux core and splatter guard http://www.safenclean.com/welding/index.html or PAM will also work without spending the money on the botthe and the gas. Did that Lincoln come with the regulator for the gas bottle or is it another purchase? Just make sure you use flux core wire if not using the bottle. Clean, Clean, Clean the weld areas. Get a wire cup brush for your 4 inch grinder to clean the area before welding. Also get a wire brush and a chipping hammer to clean the welds after they are done because they will have a crust on top that needs to come off.

Day 4: Welding has began
 

Today I felt like a kid in a candy store. I got my Argon/CO2 gas bottle to start welding and I also received the lasered parts from Mike.

I tried the welding with and without the CO2 gas and WOW, what a difference. I do have both types of welding wire (with and without flux) and the welding with CO2 goes so much smoother. I am attaching a couple of pictures of the welds (Nothing great but it's my first time ever welding).

I also saw one of the best warning signs on an electrical box today and I figured I would share it with you guys.

Day 5 -- Welding and Drilling
 

So today I did a bunch of drilling and welded almost everything on the table, except the Cross beams and legs which I drilled so I can take it apart if I need to. I think in another 3-4 hours I will have all the welding and drilling done on the table.

I am confused about a couple things (doesn't take much) and I figured before I mess up I would ask.

1) What is the purpose of the X/Y-Rail Clamp Strip?

2) I am building the Y/Y Rail out of 2.5" x 2" Angle Channel, do I need to cut the height of the rail? (Or is it even recommended?) I don't see a clear indication of this on the plans.

Thanks
Miguel

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showt...53&postcount=1

Go read this.

Miguel

The clamp strip can be from the cut offs of the rails. It is drilled at the same time you drill the Y rails, you will then tap the holes in the clamp strip for what ever size bolts you plan to use to secure your rails. The clamp strip will be inserted into the Y tubing and act as a set of nuts for the rail bolts. If you use the recommed tubing for the granty it will be too light to tap thus the clamp strips.

You will not need a clamp strips for the X rails as you can drill and tap the C channel.

Yes you will have to cut the angle iron down on one side.

The info is in the plans, it helped me by marking the pages for each step with sticky notes, be sure to study before cutting because the MM plans are laid out for mutiple sizes so be sure you are using the correct dimensions.

Gary

Gary;

It makes a lot of sense now.!. Thanks for the explanation.

Miguel

Quick Question. I have the table pretty much all done and I am just about to start mounting the Rails. My distance between the outer edge of the Y Beams is 71", How much do I make my Y-Rails hang of the side of my C8/Y beam? I am sure it's on the plans but I dont see it :(.

Thanks
Miguel

That dimension is on Drawing 10 10 300 D and listed as Dimension M, it is not a set amount. Also usually in the plans the X axis is set on the C channel and the Y axis is made of tubing that holds the Y car. Your length seems like a Y axis length but the description seems to depict an X axis? :confused:

Domino.

Sorry.> I did confuse myself :).. I am talking about the X Rails. I guess I have to make a Gauge Rod of my Y+461mm and then position my X-rails at an equal M distance. Am I corect?

Thank you again
Miguel

Your on the right track now! :)

Some more progress
 

Heath.

Thank you!. I needed somebody to shine a little light into the situation.

Attached are some of the pictures of the progress of the table. Not quite as nice as SurfCnc's machine yet but pictures of his machine have helped me tremendously. I decided to put 6 legs on the machine instead of 4 since my machine is a little longer and wanted to machine sure it was as sturdy as possible.

I will be cutting and mounting the rails this weekend.

So I have one more question. After putting the whole table together it seems that I am about 1/16" off on on my Y axle. My Y1 distance is EXACTLY 71" and my Y2 distance is 71 1/16". Before I go any further, what can I do? Or should I not even sorry and just worry about getting the X rails within the 1mm variance?

ANy help would be appreciated.

What do you mean when you refer to Y1/Y2? If it is the length of the tubes, then clamp them together, line up and square two ends and belt sand the other two ends square and to the same length. http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2750 and see post #12

If you are referring to the distance between the X-beams at each end of the table, 1/16" is not worth worrying about, when you fix the x-rails down to the top of the beams there is enough wiggle room on the bolt holes to correct that minor discrepancy.

Alan

Great.. Thanks.. I was referring to the distance between the X-beams.

To recap on my machine how I did the X-rails. I fixed the first rail in place. On the other X-rail I added one bolt at the start. The other end more or less in the correct place held down with a clamp....or between two blocks of wood...so it cannot fall off the beam.
Then I added my Gantry on the rail. As I roll it along I added more and more bolts to the X-rail.,,no measuring needed.

If your "error" after welding is only 1/16" then you are doing darn well! Some guys were about 3/8" out and still got their systems to work without too much pain.

One of the next steps is to clamp the rails down parallel and then through drill them to the beams. And then we give more wiggle room by enlarging the holes in the rails for final adjustment. So you still have 2 more chances to get it right on.

Kobus: I like your idea. I think I am going to use that.

Gerald: Thanks. I remember reading somewhere measure "2X cut once", well I thought the X was in roman numerals so I measured 20 times and cut once.

With regards to clamping down the rails, because I have to account for the 1/16 variant at the one end of the table, obviously my "M" measurement at the one end of the table is going to be 1/16 smaller than at the other end since I have to keep the table square right?

On another note, I just burned through my first angle grinder today. Brand new Ryobi 5.5Amp 4.5". It gave up half way through the first X rail. I went back to the hardware store and they quickly replaced it with another one. Hopefully I will have better luck with this new one or I may be looking at a different brand or maybe even something with more amps.

With regards to cutting down the rails, I should make a few passes with the grinder/cutter instead of trying to cut it all in one pass, right?

All start at the end of your post....MAKE A LOT OF PASSES. You It should take about 10-20 light passes to bisect the rail section. If the grinder head is too hot to touch - then your trying to hard. Patience is important here.

Also, cutting with a VERY narrow kerf metal cutting disk will do the job quicker too. Don't cheap out on the Harbor Freight or discount abrasive cutting disk. Many, including myself, have had great success with the Stainless Steel type.

You don't necessarily have to have the table Square - the relationship of Rail to Rail is what is really important.

Just pay attention to your overhang on the angle iron which is the side that holds the rack (for the pinion drive) You overhand must be 1/2" (width of the rack) + just a little so the pinion fully seats.