HuanYang VFD, A.K.A. The Cheap Chinese VFD
 

AFAIK, there are more then a few MM builders owned the inexpensive Huayang VFD + Spindle off the ebay.

Discussion were initiated but information is scatted all over the forum. BUT there really isn't much in-depth discussion of the usage of the VFD.

IMHO, it would be most beneficial if we would discuss the VFD & spindle separately.

Before this, I read Attachment 8308 many times over but only found them great hypnotizing material :p BUT last night I some how see some light shining through those boring tech writing. :D

There are more then just turning on/off, that we can do from the motion control software, (Mech3 or EMC2) and there are more to the supply voltage & the simple contactor.... They can be set up to have external spindle control button, start & manage the cooling pumps, set up a PID loop for the motor.... and many of these criteria are common to all make of VFDs.

I hope this will spin off with input from others.

Let me start my little summary (AFAIK) with the Installation,
Type of Voltage supply,
Huayang VFD takes 3-phase power if there are 3 input terminals, R, S, T.
We can supply single phase to the VFD by connecting only 2 of the R, S, T terminals but need to de-rate the VFD, by multiplying the rated power of the VFD by sqrt(2/3).
When they say 380V in the manual, it really meant voltage range of 360~440V, similarly 220V is 160~250
One can select whatever supply type by setting the
Supply line,
1) Don't install switch before the VFD, especially magnetic contactor as ON/OFF control of the main supply, i.e. no magnetic contactors connecting to R, S, T terminals. If you must, use a Non-Fuse Breaker (NFD).
2) If you can, use dedicated power line for the VFD, or second best, don't share with heavy load fluctuation equipment such as welding machine.
Output line
1) Nothing should be connected between the VFD & the motor/spindle.
2) IF output line is >15m, one must install a reactor.
3) Any (correctly rated) 3-phase AC Induction motors can be connected to the VFD, Can sellect output voltage by setting PD008
See here for more details of the setting

Then there is the Main & Control connection circuit for the Main & control terminal like this one from the manual
Attachment 8305

The terminals are hidden behind the face panel, mine look like this,
Attachment 8306

Attachment 8307is an abstract of the description of the terminal functions.

I recon this is enough for a starter, hope eveyone can chim in to cover my short fall.

Ciao

Ken, you have a serious spelling mistake: It should be Huanyang and not Huayang. Search this forum for Huanyang and discover that quite a lot has been mentioned already.

Now that make sense! No wonder I didn't get much when I searched...

Do you want to remove this thread or place it somewhere else? I'm ok with it.

Let's leave this thread here for a while and see what it attracts. However, you can do us all a favour by copying useful pieces of info to this thread - just give a link where you copied it from.

OK Gerald, here they are,

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showt...68&postcount=4

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showt...7&postcount=25


http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=28984&postcount=1

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showt...yang#post24382


http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23852&postcount=63

First on my list of stupid question is , how do we go about selecting the braking resistor size & rating .

Hi Ken,
I have one of these too. Right now I am running it by the front panel. I did try wiring to a relay for start and run from Mach3. This worked ok until I ran the table surfacing file. When the load picked up on the spindle the connection between the Smooth stepper and the BOB was lost. I found that the shield on the cable power supply to the motor from the VFD was connected at both ends which eliminated the shielding and locked up Mach3 and the ss. Only connect one end of the shield cable to ground and it works fine. I'm sure that some one has stated the shielding connection on one end before. That is about as far as I have gotten. Have you had any luck on the breaking resistor?
Buzz

Buzz,

you would usually connect shielding on the end that 'sends' the signal. in this case it would be the VFD, then shield at the motor end would then be left open and not connected.

Ries

Thanks, Ries - I am backward to that. The shield is at the motor end. I will change that tomorrow.
Buzz

EE engineers always say ground the shield at the source, but in fact if you can't do that for any reasons, grounding at the load end works as too. What we need is a Faraday's cage to take effect, the shield being metal conductor hence the cage & grounding at one single point will turn it into a faraday's cage.

I am starting to believe that motors (which don't suffer ground loop problems) should have the shield grounded at both ends. Suggest you try it. (See this post)

Shielding at both ends will not have the Faraday's cage effect, in fact the shield will become part of the EMI transmission antennae...
Faradays Cage
Antennae

Gerald,

may be the motor itself will not suffer from ground loop problems, however the rest of your electronics, specially micro electronics (PC, BoB, Drivers) might suffer from a more dirty ground, remember that the 'ground' and the loop has a much higher impedance at these frequencies generated by the spindle + steppers then you would measure with your Ohm meter.

Most important is not to ground any cable of the Bob/PC/Printer cable, anything before the Gecko with any ground plate or ground that is found within your control box. The PC and BoB needs to be separated from ground, because the gecko drivers are opto-isolated.

However, it's true that you can make complete studies out of this and EM in general, what will work for some, might not work for the other (obvious there are general rules to follow). I did notice that the overall system we use is not very sensitive to EM (I don't have experiences with spindles though). My system is well grounded throughout the system, however due to my cable restrictions in Ecuador, I don't have any shields on my cables and everything runs (so far) just fine.

Tomorrow I will have a call with my bro if he is at home, he did study this stuff a bit and has been designing similar systems (although with higher amps).

@Ken: Faraday talks more about discharges (like thunder strikes a car, and you are suppose to be safe) then antenna systems.
In our case we basically talk about lowering the impedance for signals of higher frequencies that are unwanted within our system and leading them away, it's more closer related to antenna and coil/resonance systems then faraday.

Ries
PS: it's been a whole since I did electronics stuff, correct me if I am wrong :)

Ries, Faraday cage are use to shield off EMI to provide a "clear" RF & EMI environment, it can stop RF & thunderbolt too...
some interesting images

In summery when you have a loop of wire or metal strip that is very slender, (Shield of the shielding cable is slender as the length is very long with respect to its diameter or width), it become an antenna.

In these circumstances the effect of a long single-ended shield is a better antenna than a dual ended shielded cable.

Basic neccessity for these chinese noisy VFDs are:
-dual ended shielding for spindle<->VFD cable
-common mode choke (torroidal ferrite) on motor<->VFD cable
-EMI suppression filter on power input to VFD.

Time finally come for me to set up my VFD kitchen table project...

No luck... got stuck at setting the PDXXX values...:mad:
managed to move up & down the PDXXX list & see the set value, but couldn't alter the set values... tried all buttons but the value wouldn't budge... Help please!!!:(

BTW, I can only scroll decremental address number with the DOWN button, can not scroll incrementally using the UP arrow. Is that normal?

Ken, check the value of PD000 is set to 0. If its set to 1 then all parameters are locked and can't be changed.
I'm pretty sure i can increment AND decrement. not sure whats going on there...

I pressed
1. Press <PROG> see <Pd000> with the last digit flashing
2. press <SET> see <0> flashing
So it is set to 0?

From here, if I press <SET> once, I'll get <Pd001>, press <SET> again & set value, repeat & I'll see Pdxxx number increment, press the DOWN button & I can decrease the adress number but the UP button nothing happen.

Is this normal?

I suspect the UP button is faulty... I can only decrease some content values but not increament...

Need to confirm if I'm unlucky b4 I inform the seller.

WARNING!

DON"T buy from ebay seller love-happyshopping, DON"T!!!

They do not honor the warranty & never bother to reply with tech inquiry.

Guess I got burn real bad this time..... :mad:

Ken,

the Chinese supplier in general are not know to be very supportive on tech support. Essentially you buy from China without warrantee and that's really the whole strategy if CHina buy/sales. If it doesn't work you buy a new one, there stuff is that cheap, but sorry to hear....

Ries

I'm mentally prepared for this, but its always disappointing when things like this happened. I normally will go through Hong Kong suppliers for chinese goods, as a layer of assurance especially with "big ticket" item of over USD500. But this time I to ebay is as good a protection, but hell, they are as useless & impossible to open a dispute case...

Ken,

If you paid with a Credit Card you can file a case with them.

Just a thought.

Ken, I read somewhere on the zone that these VFD's had problem with the switches, try replacing these - may be that will help

Thanks for the heads up. Really appriciate that.

Mike, I paid with paypal & ebay did suggested to claim refund through paypal, still searching the right channel to do that.
Irfan, I'm electronically handicapped & I wish I know how to go about switches. Or you can point me the right direction?

Any help is highly appreciated.

its some where here - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=273

but i am not able to get the right thread

Thanks Irfan, will do my bit to screen through.

Cheers

MattyZee,

I am in the process of purchasing the components to hookup and shield a spindle/VFD just like yours and I want to make sure I have the correct components.

- Dual ended shielding: Assume this is a typical shielded wire with the shield tied to ground at both the VFD and the Spindle. What size wire (guage) are you using? 3 conductor or 4?
- Common mode choke: What choke did you purchase? Did you use a choke at both ends of the cable - or at just one end? If so, which end - or does it matter?
- EMI supression filter on power input to VFD: What filter did you purchase?

Thanks

Yes, thats what i've done and works great for me. I use a 4 core, 1.5mm2 but only use 3 cores for the spindle. I leave the 4th core unused.

I put mine on the VFD end, thats where the noise is generated. I wouldn't put it at the other end, but one at both ends should be fine but doubt it has much improvement. I bought the largest toroidal ferrite i could find. The more turns you can wind on it the better. The higher the inductance the better too.

I bought this one from Jaycar Electronics (an Australia company). Any EMI filter that is rated for at least 10A(240VAC) preferably 15A should be fine.

Will this configuration solve problem of recieving of incorrect data (FF F7 F8 00 00
 

Hello. I'm stuck. My VFD sends wrong information (FF F8 F0 00 00 00 and others. The message comes with 00 00 CRC bytes.). I tried to use Spindle talker, Serial Port monitor, scotta's hy_vfd EMC component but unsuccefull. Nothing works.

It's all because of noise or mainboard of VFD is buggy?



Thank

I am consider buying a air cooled 0.8kw spindle for light foam and clay sculpture work and some day up to 4kw spindle for heavy duty cutting in harder materials.

Will the HuanYang VFD 4kw run the 0.8kw spindle.

4kw VDF
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

0.8kw air cooled spindle
http://cgi.ebay.com/0-8KW-AIR-COOLE-...efaultDomain_0

If the 4kw VDF would work out my plan would be to first buy the 4kw VDF and a 0.8kw spindle, then far into the future buy up to a 4kw spindle. Some of my 3d foam sculpture could take days to cut and I am assuming 0.8kw spindle would not cost much per hour to operate.

Thanks

My opinion is to go with the stronger spindle right away, price difference is not that much.

But if you have some other plans for the 0.8kW unit and not to sell it then its ok.

4kW VFD will run the 0.8kW spindle, just set the current rating and voltage right for the 0.8kW spindle.

p.s. try to find local distributor of Delta or some other more reliable brand of VFD. The price should not
be more that 10% more from the chinese one. Mine 2.2kW Control Techniques costed 200EUR, 4kW one was 380eur, and
you have a 3 year warranty and service available.

That air-cooled spindle seems to have no fan, and some tiny air slots. If there is no fan, then those slots are going to become a blanket when they fill with dust?

Thanks Danilo!

After reading more about HuanYang VFD quality I will look to purchase a better quality VFD locally.


I am concerned about the cost of running 2.2kw - 4kw spindles from a single phase 220v power supply. I currently researching and trying to understand input and output requirments for a VDF.

VFD
http://www.driveswarehouse.com/docum...spede/PC1B.pdf

4.kw spindle
http://cgi.ebay.com/4KW-AIR-COOLED-S...efaultDomain_0

Why does the 4kw 12a spindle specs not seem to jive with the Polyspede PC1-050 specs? PC1-050 Vdf shows an applicable motor size of 3.75kw even though it can output 17a, which is way above the 4kw spindles required 12a. Does that mean I would need just jump up to the PC1-075?

Wow, after reading this I now think the question would be better left to a Polyspede rep. I will still throw it out to the Mechmate forum, if just to demonstrat my ignorance.:(... Now I am off to try and find on explantion of how a VDF takes 36.3a of 1-phase and output 17a of 3-phase?

Chris, I' won't & can't answer your Polyspede question, but I think I can help you understand the power behavior of single phase input VFD.
VFD NEVER surge, that is why they made them, so you can use them provided your socket amp is within the VFD requirements.
They will take as much power as they need for your job & in most cases, you will never reach the max power output of your 2.2kw ever less likely with 4kw unless you are damn careless with your machine operation such as digging oil with your spindle rig.
I did mentioned earlier that VFD take in 50/60Hz AC power (be it single or 3 phase) & ractify them to DC the chop them up as 3 phase AC of desired frequency. so single phase or 3 phase can work. even with a 3 phase input inverter, you can rig it as a single phase input, as long as the input power is sufficient to supply you output demand, you won't burn anything...
Hope this help.

Gerald,

Good point about the air ports getting clogged up. I ask the ebay seller about the air-cooled spindle. I have not yet received an answer. I did find this post on CNC Zone.


"Bob Willson24th May 2010, 01:38 PM
Dear Bob

Our 1.5KW air-cooled spindle inbuilt the fan.

Regards aoran

-love-happyshopping"

Still it does seem that dust and foam particles will quickly accumulate in the spindle stopping air flow. If so I would rather deal with water cooling system rather than constantly blowing out the spindle(if that would even work?). I plan on long and mess foam cuts. The more I read a water cooled 2.2kw spindle and a Hitachi X200-022NFU1 VFD seem like a good combo for me.

Thanks

I never owned a spindle before but water cooled version which I bought from Deitech is my favourite piece of machine now, it runs quiet and cool and required just a 25EUR submersible pump for cooling (ATMAN 105) and 15 meters of pipes 7EUR so its not a great deal to get it running. Also it does not blow the dust away.

From this point of view all pros are on the side of water cooled spindle, but maybe later I will run into some problems which I dont have now. So for time being my vote goes to water cooled version.