| Author |
Message |
    
jeff
Registered
Username: Jeff
Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 07:02 pm: | 
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Hi, I havent read anything on the machining of the rails. It seems like they would be difficult to cut and machine with any accuracy. Can someone 'splain a good way to remove excess material from rail without too much warpage and also how the "V" grooves are machined evenly? Sounds like a cool machine but this is something that I dont understand. Thanks!
Jeff |
jeff
Registered
Username: Jeff
Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 07:07 pm: |
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Well, I just found a post that 'splains this pretty well. Looks like there isnt a really great way to do it 'cept an 8' bed vertical mill. |
fabrica
Registered
Username: Daya
Post Number: 278
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 04:00 am: |
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Jeff, I did mine on a shaper onto which I mounted a drill. Gerald, Is suggesting a circular saw for this Job. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 931
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 07:20 am: |
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Jeff, you don't need a mill that big. These rails can be done in shorter sections.
In general, the whole "precision rail" issue is over-hyped when it comes to a production machine making cabinet doors, signs, décor, etc. all day. Some guys use the raw edge of angle iron with great success because it soon wears smooth. We are trying to go one step better and put a smooth, shaped edge on that angle iron from the beginning. |
Charlie T
Registered
Username: Popbing
Post Number: 15
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 09:17 am: |
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I paid a grinding place to do X, Y, and the Z plate recently so I know what Jeff is concernd about. These Guys could do a single pass at 12' lenghth. They charged what they needed for the job (about 130$ US per V ,roughly.) IM happy with the results and think it was money well spent. If worst comes to worst and youd like em from Utah US that could happen in a pinch. If you do concider this but would like to see pics of the ones I now have thats no problem just ask.
Congrats on your machine fabrica nice job. 
Gerald D I cant wait to make my first cut. |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 934
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 09:59 am: |
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Charlie, your rails will be every bit as good as those purchased rails, and a lot easier to install, plus the rack fits directly onto them. Vadeem is also looking at the grinding of rails - see this thread. This is an economical way to get good solid precision rails.
A lot of guys download the MechMate plans, and are then disappointed to discover they need to make their own rails. "Nah, never, can't be done, won't be accurate, needs a huge milling machine...." To these people I want to say "Think outside the box - try it!"
Even if guys start of with a crude rail, carefully styled freehand with an angle grinder, it will give a machine that is capable of production and earning income. As funds improve, you can make a more "precision" set of rails. It really is no big deal. |
Thomas M. Rybczyk
Registered
Username: Rypper
Post Number: 6
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 02:48 pm: |
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Hello,
As they say a picture is worth a thousand words, and to confirmed Gerald's numerous posts on this subject.
Follow this link http://accurate-inspections.com/pr%20cnc%20upgrade/ to see my current cnc machine which has stock mild steel angle iron rails with metal sliding door rollers riding on the top edge.
I used this machine in my cabinet shop everyday and it is capable of making very accurate cuts and I also use it for v-carving signs.
So as you can see exact precision on the v-cut is not necessary.
Tom |
Loren Gameros
Registered
Username: Moron_wizard
Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 07:52 am: |
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Hello, I am having a bit of a hard time sourcing a company to machine/grind my rails. Can anybody make a recomendation. I am in the Western United States. Thank You. |
Charlie T
Registered
Username: Popbing
Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 09:56 pm: |
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If worse comes to worse Loren we can get you some from Utah. Like some other threads have stated you should try the blade sharpening places. This is where I had mine done.
http://www.superiorgrinding.com/ |
reza forushani
Registered
Username: Reza
Post Number: 103
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 11:08 pm: |
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What did it cost? |
Charlie T
Registered
Username: Popbing
Post Number: 17
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 10:36 pm: |
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Well Bill M. emailed me about these and my reply was sent back to me because his email address didnt work. So Bill M. Hope you see this.
130$ per "V" is what it cost. Its in my post above but I guess some didnt see it. My table is planned at 4'x 8' so I have 2 rails at 122", 2 rails at 69" and 1 18" Z plate. 780$ for all grinding including the holes/countersunk in the Z plate. Keep in mind that these are done in one mounting. So the 10'2" ones were done all at once, they can grind 12' lengths. I know its expensive but all I own right now is a peanut grinder and I wasnt about to start my machine off on the wrong foot.
Hope this helps. |
reza forushani
Registered
Username: Reza
Post Number: 104
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 02:16 am: |
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That is not too bad for me, considering I don't have any grinders either. Thanks |
Bill McGuire
Registered
Username: Johnnydoughey
Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 09:17 am: |
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Thanks Charlie...
Sorry about my email. My provider is working on it...
Bill |
Greg J
Registered
Username: New_mexico_woodworker
Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 01:16 am: |
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Check out these cool tools.
http://www.steelmax.com/saws.htm
I've seen the "skil saw" operate and it cuts like butter. With a simple jig, it will make the fabrication of the rails almost to easy. I'm buying one tomorrow. |
John Fredriksen
Registered
Username: Frederj
Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 06:39 pm: |
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Would it not be easier to just to buy the blade and use it in a conventional table saw with a speed controller?
Or for ~$150 more why not step up to a mill/dril with 45 degee tilt such as this one:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44991
Cheers,
John |
Greg J
Registered
Username: New_mexico_woodworker
Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 07:08 pm: |
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John,
I agree that buying a blade and using a table saw is the simplest. I only have one table saw and I don't want to work metal on the wood working tools. Also, I can cut the rest of the parts (channel, box supports, etc.) with this saw. FYI, I ordered one and the cost was 300 USD. An extra blade was 45 USD. |
Thomas M. Rybczyk
Registered
Username: Rypper
Post Number: 13
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 08:22 pm: |
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Greg,
I interested in hearing your opinion of this tool, and seeing how long (how many cuts) a blade lasts.
Tom |
Greg J
Registered
Username: New_mexico_woodworker
Post Number: 9
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 10:56 pm: |
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Tom,
Not a problem. It's due to arrive next Weds (4/4/07). I'm finishing up the table drawings and then will order materials. I'll take pictures of my setup and be glad to post. My buddy has had the saw for 3 years and says the blades last a long time. He has built numerous metal buildings and metal pipe fencing on his ranch. |
Brian_B
Registered
Username: Allegheny
Post Number: 34
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 04:11 pm: |
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Hi Gerald,
It took me a while to find the link, but here is a webpage on how to make long, and accurate, machine ways with simple hand tools:
http://www.lmwatts.com/straightedge.html
The longest steel bar I have tried with this method was only about four feet, but it was accurate to within 0.0005" per foot - took about 20 hours spread over a week or so.
Unfortunately, the follow up - creating a pair of ways in the same plane - has yet to be published; and I have been waiting for several years now.
Brian |
Loren Gameros
Registered
Username: Moron_wizard
Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 07:42 am: |
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OK, Here's what I have from Caltime Metals in Huntington Beach California (USA)
I'm not sure if it's a good deal but they will do it.
A36 Hot Roll Steel Angle
(2) 2-1/2" x 2-1/2" x 1/4" x 20' Lgs. @ $150.00/Lot
To cut 2 @ 10' & 2 @ 5', trim one leg and machine as specified add
$900.00/Lot
Please allow us 2-3 weeks to process all.
Thank you,
Brad @ Caltime Metals (714) 892-3307 |
Gerald_D
Registered
Username: Gerald_d
Post Number: 1119
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 08:07 am: |
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Loren, remember that your rails must be quite a bit longer than your cutting area - somehow I don't think you want y-rails as short as 5'.....?
- The raw x-rail needs to be 800mm [30"] longer than your table length, and
- the raw y-rail needs 700mm [27"] longer than the table width
However, some material (about 100mm [4"]) gets trimmed off the ends of the rails later, but you can trim it right at the beginning if you can't fit it into a standard length. The trimmed lengths are X+600mm [23.6"] and Y+500mm [19.7"]
Discussion on "why so long?": link1 link2 link3
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Loren Gameros
Registered
Username: Moron_wizard
Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 12:37 am: |
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I would think that this price is will be the same even if there is a few extra inches. This was a preliminary estimate. I will re-submit for a new price qoute. It took a week to get a response the first time so I/we will have to wait for a new qoute. |
Greg J
Registered
Username: New_mexico_woodworker
Post Number: 14
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 02:39 am: |
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Here's my latest update on using a metal cutting "skill saw" for the rails. The saw worked great on cutting the 2-1/2 inch leg of the angle down to 1 inch. I made a 10 foot cut in about 3 minutes. But trying to cut the V was another story. I couldn't keep any kind of consistent V shape and hold 0.020 inch with a hand tool. I'll be looking for a machine shop tomorrow. I've haven't cut all that much metal, but the saw cuts pretty nice and leaves a cold cut. Its strange to touch the metal right after cutting and the steel is cold. Anyways, I think the saw will work for the other parts. |
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