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  #31  
Old Tue 19 May 2009, 00:58
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
In real life, it is plenty close enough, because the bending guys are going to give you an inside radius that is all over the show.
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  #32  
Old Tue 19 May 2009, 01:28
cvriv.charles
Just call me: charles
 
New Jersey
United States of America
Ok, thanks.
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  #33  
Old Wed 20 May 2009, 02:36
cvriv.charles
Just call me: charles
 
New Jersey
United States of America
Hey whats the closest imperial thats being used for the 3mm thick parts? .120in or .125in?
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  #34  
Old Wed 20 May 2009, 04:33
jhiggins7
Just call me: John #26
 
Hebron, Ohio
United States of America
11 guage Standard Steel is 3.0378 mm.
.125 inches equals 3.175 mm
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  #35  
Old Wed 20 May 2009, 07:22
cvriv.charles
Just call me: charles
 
New Jersey
United States of America
I know but 1/8" thick materials is a more common size right?!?! I'll just do 11ga then.
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  #36  
Old Wed 20 May 2009, 08:54
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
11ga is pretty common with the laser cutters. That is what I supply with the kits I have gotten cut with no problems.
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  #37  
Old Wed 20 May 2009, 09:35
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
The steel producers have a tolerance on their supplied thickness - don't be surprised if 11ga turns out to be thicker than 1/8", or vice versa. For some sheets, the mills sell on weight, then they roll to the thicker side of the tolerances. If they are selling on nominal thickness, they roll to the thinner end of the tolerance.
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  #38  
Old Wed 20 May 2009, 23:09
cvriv.charles
Just call me: charles
 
New Jersey
United States of America
That makes sence. Always in their favor I would love to say that im almost done modeling the MM parts but thats just not the case. I have to constrain and dimension all the parts which is kind of time consuming. Also, I found some geometric errors, overlapping lines etc. Probably the aftermath of importing the dxf's into inventor. I think. I dont know. I just hope that all the dimension and everything is true. Meaning I hope nothing was altered during importation. Thats why I asked you about he dimensions before.

I have several parts complete. I'm holding out till I have them all done. I'll post the indvidual parts and then assembled. This way newbies like myself can get a good look at all the parts individually.

I am still clueless as to whats needed to build one of these. I mean I have an idea and Im starting to unstand how to read the plans. This is all because of the modeling of the parts. When Im done here I'll know exactly what needs to be done. For now I have to figure out whats going on with these tow particular parts. The keep crashing my inventor.
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  #39  
Old Sat 23 May 2009, 12:46
cvriv.charles
Just call me: charles
 
New Jersey
United States of America
I finished modeling the profile and bends All of them. I modeled everything that was in the DXF file folder. What a learning experience that was! Learned some about the MechMate and a lot of Inventor. Anyways,.... enjoy

cvriv_mechmate_001_05-23-2009

Hi Here are ALL of the MM profiles cut and bent

1020451PC.dxf


1020452PC.dxf


1020456PA.dxf


1020457PA.dxf


1020458PA.dxf


1030422PD.dxf


1030450PG.dxf


1030455PB.dxf


1040372PA.dxf


1040387PA.dxf


1040432PF.dxf


1040434PD.dxf


1060215PB.dxf


1060315PA.dxf


1060325PA.dxf


M130332PA.dxf


M510312PB.dxf


M510314PB.dxf


M510322PC.dxf


M510324PA.dxf


M610115PB.dxf


M610116PB.dxf


So yea. These were made to specifcation using the DXF file's that come with the MM plans. Imperial thicknesses and metric dimensions. I have to make tiny alteration here and there so I could get the parts to bend within the software. No biggy. I am going to start modeling the rest of the components now. I think all the remaining components are actually made by the MM builder. After that I can finally assemble. And then after that once I get my garage I can start building it for real.
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  #40  
Old Sat 23 May 2009, 13:13
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Part 10 40 432 looks like it is missing the notch where 10 40 434 fits in?
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  #41  
Old Sat 23 May 2009, 13:53
cvriv.charles
Just call me: charles
 
New Jersey
United States of America
What notch? There wasn't a notch in the dxf. I'll check again.
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  #42  
Old Sat 23 May 2009, 14:05
cvriv.charles
Just call me: charles
 
New Jersey
United States of America
Oh I know what notch you mean. It's there just a bad shot it . I updated one of the pics about so that you can see it better.
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  #43  
Old Tue 26 May 2009, 13:51
cvriv.charles
Just call me: charles
 
New Jersey
United States of America
cvriv_mechmate_001_05-26-2009

Here's an update. According to the plans but with a few changes. Check it out.

Here's how I would like my table to be. The plans call for the 8 cross beams(1010302SB) to be welded to the x beams(1010322SA) because it's permanent. That way you dont have to worry about the able going out of square. Which is good because thats one less thing to worry about. BUT! like some,... I need to be able to dismantle this machine for transport. What you see in the image below weighs about 650lbs. Thats according to Inventor. AND! Thats only what you see! LOL.


So instead of welding these 8 beams I am going to do what many others are doing. Im going to bolt them.


To keep help keep the table square,... I and going to weld a support bar across the ends of the beams, in sets of 4. These support bars will hold the cross beams together so that they are square. When the x beams are bolted to them they will be square with each other. Once the table surface is bolted down to the cross beams, it will help hold the table square too. Plus the legs of the table will help to hold the table square also.


Forgive my Inventor rendering abilites,... im still trying to figure that out. In this pic you can see the inventor welds for the end plate(1010324GA) for the x beam(1010322SA).


Here's the bolts that will hold the x beam to the cross beams. 16 x 3/8"-16 heavy hex bolts. I have to use beveled washer because the steel channel has an internal taper. It very dark. Sorry.


Im using 3/8"-16 socket head bolts for the table. These bolts will screw directly into the the cross beams for ease of removal.


See Still kind of dark.


Here's the underside. You can see the two sections of cross beams. Kind of like pallets. Really heavy pallets.


Here they are alone.


I dont want to weld to much because I dont want to deform the metal to much. I think i'll be fine with this. The very end with the flat side facing out gets welded all around the channels shape. The remaining 3 only get a top and bottom weld. That should be good. It's not like those support bars are going to be taking on a load.


And thats it for now


Now this isn't my final size. I will know for sure its final size once I build the gantry.
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  #44  
Old Tue 26 May 2009, 20:15
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
Charles,
Once you have the spoilboard bolted to the table, I dont think you will need the extra braces. Quite a few people have done it this way with no racking problems.
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  #45  
Old Tue 26 May 2009, 21:04
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Charles, you are trying to solve problems that don't exist. Those flat bars on the end the end of the cross-suports will add hardly any "anti-racking" - drop that welded assembly during transport and it will be out. The support board does a far better job of anti-racking.

Socketed cap screws, for the support board, have heads that are too high, too hard and too small a shoulder. You shouldn't use them in wood without washers to increase the bearing area, which will make them even taller. Too hard?......well, you are probably going to hit them with a cutter one day......

Have you seen this thread?: Re-alignment after dis-assembly - getting all parts into position at the new location
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  #46  
Old Tue 26 May 2009, 23:04
cvriv.charles
Just call me: charles
 
New Jersey
United States of America
Ok. I will take supports out. But someone here said that you dont agree with bolts the table together because of how easy the table can be knocked out of square.

About the socket head bolts,... whats the maximum depth I can drill into a 3/4" thick board? In your plans you have a 30mm thick board? There are low profile socket head bolts. But they for sure need washers seeing that their shoulders are even smaller. With the washer the overall height of the bolt/ washer will be about the same as a regular socket head bolt. What bolts are usually used?

I read about that thread you posted. I would rather just use a square to realign everything.

I think I will go ahead and create 1010324GA equiv's for the 302SB's. I dont like the open channel look at all. That was another reason for the support. To act as a side skirt kind of.

Last edited by cvriv.charles; Tue 26 May 2009 at 23:07..
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  #47  
Old Wed 27 May 2009, 05:19
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Charles,
I can attest that my bolt together gets hit all the time by people, equipment, pallet jacks, occasional forklift - and still remains square. The spoil board holds the alignment fine.

For hardware to hold down the spoilboard, I actually use a large #14 Phillips head pan machine screw. (although plans call for different- use what I had in stock as usually and is Low profile enough. )

My spoilboard cutting profile in Mach shows a 3/8" depth for the countersink.

Unless you use a furniture style hex head with a low profile truss head, you may not find a hex head cap that will work as well as you hope for.

Good luck,
Sean
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  #48  
Old Wed 27 May 2009, 22:08
cvriv.charles
Just call me: charles
 
New Jersey
United States of America
I was actually thinking about using 3/8" - 16 countersunk socket head. It has a large shoulder and I can sink it a good amount. As of now I have about .25 from bolt face to spoilboard surface and about .25" of spoilboard left. If this is not good then I'll just go down to .25" bolts instead. I'm going to post new pics soon.
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  #49  
Old Wed 27 May 2009, 23:27
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
I started a new thread for the screwing down issue over here:
Screwing the table top to the cross support beams
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  #50  
Old Wed 03 June 2009, 04:45
cvriv.charles
Just call me: charles
 
New Jersey
United States of America
I have some question about the x rails.

#1: I was wondering if it would be better to use 3/8" angle instead of 1/4"? I have been scouring the forum to find a pic thats kind of orthograpic of a bearing on a 1/4" rail so I can see how much the bearing overhangs the rail. I dont mean to be annoying. Im just curious about stuff like this.

#2: I would like to drill and tap my x beams to mount the x rails. The plans call for 1/2" holes for both rail and beam. Whats up with that? There's no real explanation for it. Im thinking for bolts to pass through and for rail adjustability? Am I right?

#3. The proxy holes for the proxy switch. It says optional. What is it and how many of your use it?

Thats it for now.
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  #51  
Old Wed 03 June 2009, 05:16
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
#2: It is for adjustment of the rails to get them straight and parallel to each other.
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  #52  
Old Wed 03 June 2009, 05:43
jhiggins7
Just call me: John #26
 
Hebron, Ohio
United States of America
Answer #1. 3/8" angle would be an overkill. The bearings ride fine on the 1/4". Also, you'll be adjusting (flexing) the rail to get the Gantry and Y-Car to ride smoothly, so the thicker rails would be more difficult to align.

Answer #2 Check drawing 10 10 300, note 8. You'll notice that the Main Beams are tapped 8 mm. I used 5/16" and bought the bolts at Tractor Supply by the pound.

Answer #3 The proxy switch is a means of feeding back to Mach3, electronically, the position of the Gantry. I believe there are 6 of them (4 for X rails and 2 for Y rails). I did not install them, but I drilled the holes in case I wanted the install them in the future. There are instructions on the Forum for how to align the Gantry using the mechanical stops.

Hope this helps. Happy building.
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  #53  
Old Wed 03 June 2009, 05:46
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
John,
Just a bit of semantics, but the proxy does not feed back actual location to Mach3 continuously, but only when the gantry arrives at the end-of-travel location. It's just a limit switch with benefits! (like sensing if the machine derails, etc.)

Some readers of the forum may interpret you last post as a "encoder" type feedback which is not the case. I know you know the difference, but others new to the forum may not.

Just a note to keep it clear.

Sean
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  #54  
Old Wed 03 June 2009, 06:47
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhiggins7 View Post

Answer #3 I believe there are 6 of them (4 for X rails and 2 for Y rails).
Those are the number of holes at the rail ends - the number of proximity switches is half of that.
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  #55  
Old Wed 03 June 2009, 07:35
cvriv.charles
Just call me: charles
 
New Jersey
United States of America
Ok. And about the drilling of holes in the rack,... I see two holes one at each end. But as an option you can drill/ tap from the back side 10mm deep and do that more than twice through out the length of the rack. My question is how would you bolt the rack to the rail when the M6 holes are right up on the leg?

I would love to do it that way but im just not seeing how you would bolt the rack up like that. Only one bolt at each end seems a bit,.... not enough. doesn't the rack sag in the middle?

So I am gathering that the proxy switches replace the x rail stopper block? The proxy switch tells m3 that that gantry is nearing 0,0 and thats how the gantry is squared?

Last edited by cvriv.charles; Wed 03 June 2009 at 07:38..
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  #56  
Old Wed 03 June 2009, 07:46
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Charles, the racks are primarily secured with high adhesive double sided tape. The screws at the ends serve to keep it from wandering, and to give the tape a chance to bond.

The proxy switches do not replace the stopper blocks! Ideally, they prevent you from ever hitting the blocks. If for some reason your proxy should fail, the stopper block saves you from a disaster.
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  #57  
Old Wed 03 June 2009, 07:57
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to J.R. Hatcher
I'm the type person that will read for several hours or re-read something several times to understand. Then if I still don't understand I will ask the questions. Charles are you sure you're reading enough??? Some of the questions you're asking are right there to be read.
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  #58  
Old Wed 03 June 2009, 08:55
Doug_Ford
Just call me: Doug #3
 
Conway (Arkansas)
United States of America
Charles,

I did not add proximity switches to my machine and after several months, I have no intention of adding them. I agree that 3/8" rails would be overkill and would be harder to straighten. The longer I have my MM the more convinced I become that Gerald is a genius. I've said this several times before but I'll say it again. If you follow his instructions to the letter, I guarantee you won't be disappointed. The only disappointing parts of my machine are where I deviated from what Gerald told us to do.
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  #59  
Old Wed 03 June 2009, 10:24
cvriv.charles
Just call me: charles
 
New Jersey
United States of America
I am reading but I am very new to reading blueprints like this. I am kind of jumping around a bit. There are some things I am a bit confused about such as the instructions for 10 10 246 D and 10 10 300 D. I'm trying to picture what he means and I think im right but,...

10 10 246 D:

1: Scribe the 46mm line on the x rails. OK.

2: Determine a hole pattern for the rail, center punch and drill 6.8mm holes through the rails. OK.

3: Clamp the rails to the table weldment 10 10 300 W and do preliminary alignment. So I am to clamp the rails to the x beams and align them with everything. OK.

4: Drill 6.8mm holes through the tables long beams for 10 10 300 D OK.

5: Mark rail locations. OK.

6: Enlarge holes in rails to 12mm. I misread this and thought I had to enlarge the holes for the x beams too. My mistake.

Now, 10 10 300 D:

1: use clamps to clamp the pilot drilled rails to the table. Didnt I do this already?

2: Mark the rail locations on the table. I did this already?

3: Use a gauge rod. OK.

4: align the rails to spec. OK.

5: Yadda yadda for squareness,... OK.

6: Drill pilot holes through table. I thought I did this already?

7: remove rails. OK.

8: drill to 7mm and tap to using m8. OK. FINE.

Am I missing something here? DUP instructions? I am seriously trying to follow his exact instructions. I have a good idea of whats going on and I am able to determine what I would do but its not about what I would do but more or less what its telling me to do. I am a bit confused with these instructions. I am sorry to annoy you but I just need some help with the instructions.

I will ask about doing something differently because thats just how I am. It's very hard on me to go along with someone else's design because I like to design everything myself. Unfortunately I do not have 10000+ dollars to toy around with. I have 10000+ to get a router built but not to play around designing my own. Nor do I have the time.

I am learnign a lot here. And to learn means to ask questions even if they are dumb questions. It is the very reason why a lot of people stop answering my questions. Because there is such a thing a dumb questions. People just get tired of answering them. It's cool.

I just welded for the first time the other day. I was asking a ton of dumb questions over at another forum about it. I get answers like read the manual and such. As if I didnt. People just get annoyed fast. Thats all.

Anyways,... I am not really in my right anyways. I haven't picked up a real tool ina long time and done anything creative in a while. Other than the other day when I welded some. Thats it. I have to get back into my groove again before I can really THINK. I have a lot going on right now. Sorry.
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  #60  
Old Wed 03 June 2009, 10:24
cvriv.charles
Just call me: charles
 
New Jersey
United States of America
And sometimes I just like to talk.
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