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  #31  
Old Mon 27 August 2007, 12:06
Richards
Just call me: Mike
 
South Jordan, UT
United States of America
If the control circuit of the SSR has too light of a load on it, the relay may fail to turn off. Most SSRs only pull about 5 to 10 mA from the 5V DC supply. Some relays pull a lot less. Those are the ones that can latch on.

Just add a low value resistor between the + terminal and 5V. (Be sure it is the control terminal and NOT the output Line or Load terminals or you'll see sparks and smoke.) You may need to experiment a little, but a 1/2W resistor with a value of 50 ohms, 100 ohms, 220 ohms, 330 ohms, or 470 ohms would probably work. All you need to do is to increase the resistance of the internal L.E.D. circuit enough so that the L.E.D. stay lit up enough to activate the photo detector part of the circuit when the L.E.D. is supposed to be turned off.

Adding resistance reduces the amount of current flowing through the L.E.D., which reduces the amount of light produced by the L.E.D. Too much reistance will keep the L.E.D. from working - so experiment a little if necessary until the SSR turns ON and OFF as expected.

(According to Ohm's law 5V - 1V for the L.E.D. diode drop = 4V and 4V / 330 ohms = 0.012A or 12mA. So, if the SSR didn't already have a resistor built in, you would be allowing the L.E.D. to pull 12mA with the 330 ohm resistor, which gives average brightness for most L.E.D.s. But, because the SSR has a resistor built in, you will be adding the resistance of the external resistor to the resistance of the built-in resistor to reduce the amount of current being drawn through the circuit. That's why you may need to play around a little before you find a resistor that works properly.

If you have a current reading multi-meter, put it in series between Vcc and the + terminal of the SSR. Read the amount of current flowing through the control circuit of the relay when the relay is on. I'm assuming that Vcc is 5V and that the SSR has an average voltage drop of 1V across the L.E.D., so divide 4V by the value of the current reading from the multi-meter. That number is the resistance value of the built-in resistor. Add an external resistor that is 25% to 75% of that value and the SSR should work perfectly.)
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  #32  
Old Mon 12 November 2007, 10:25
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
The PMDX-122 has 4 outputs, one of which has a relay mounted on it. The other three need to go via SSR's before they become useful.

In the last month I experimented with SSR's a bit. I used one to turn on some security lights (3 X 150 Watt halogen lamps on 230V supply). The SSR's were rated at 3 Amp. Strangely, the lamps only produced an orange glow. After reading of Art's experience, I wonder if we are really ready to switch devices like routers and dust collectors with SSR's? I would think that we restrict ourselves to switching contactor coils with the SSR's . . . .

Even the relay on the PMDX-122 should be treated with care, because it is not easily replaceable. I wouldn't put the router current through it, I think the relay is fine to drive a contactor to power the router.

Contactors are cheap, reliable and easy to mount and to replace or upgrade.
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  #33  
Old Sat 19 January 2008, 14:38
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
JR, I think you are looking to make the green tick, plus add 1 and 1 as port and pin, on this screen:

Attachment 782

And I think that is all there is to it - the relay will then respond on the M03/M05 commands
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File Type: gif Clipboard01.gif (44.5 KB, 1093 views)
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  #34  
Old Sat 19 January 2008, 19:29
Doug_Ford
Just call me: Doug #3
 
Conway (Arkansas)
United States of America
J.R.,

I found some pretty good instructions for basic setup of the program at http://www.machsupport.com/documentation/

If you download the basic setup of Mach3Mill, it discusses setting the ports and pins for the charge pump and the relay you are using to control your router. Good luck with it.
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  #35  
Old Sun 20 January 2008, 14:38
Greolt
Just call me: Greg
 
Victoria
Australia
Just to add to Gerald's post above

Also the second part of setting the spindle control is on "Spindle Control" page.

Make sure "Disable Spindle Relays" is not checked. Set Clockwise to output 1.

Set the delays you need in "General Parameters"

Greg
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  #36  
Old Sun 20 January 2008, 22:09
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Greg, thanks very much for posting that page - I completely forgot about it

That is the page where you say the router/spindle is controlled from Output #1.

On the page I showed earlier, is where you say that pin number 1 (to which the relay is soldered on the PMDX) shall be designated as Output #1.

(Could of course have #2 etc., but then both pages must correspond)
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  #37  
Old Fri 03 July 2009, 01:47
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Retief, in your case you have connected the SSR onto J81&2 of the PMDX, which corresponds to parallel pin #14. Therefore, on the screen I showed in post #35, you need to enter pin number 14 alongside the green tick.
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  #38  
Old Tue 28 July 2009, 11:34
martin77pl
Just call me: Martin #39
 
Wroclaw
Poland
The more I spend reading the more confused I get. So forgive my question but I better ask before I do something silly. You can use SSR to turn spindle on in mach3?
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  #39  
Old Tue 28 July 2009, 11:46
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
The spindle is controlled by a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD)

The control signals needed by the VFD are only milliAmps. Your PMDX can directly control the VFD (and the spindle)
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  #40  
Old Tue 28 July 2009, 12:27
martin77pl
Just call me: Martin #39
 
Wroclaw
Poland
I knew I should ask first. Thanks a lot Gerald.
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  #41  
Old Mon 12 October 2009, 15:35
cncb
Just call me: Brian
 
Connecticut
United States of America
For those using variable speed routers and switching them under the control of Mach3, a few questions.

First, since there is already a switch on the router body itself, do you have to turn it on closing it up to the SSR? (So that it is hot or ready to go at the control of Mach?)

I have seen the router approached in two different ways; one being switched on with the contactor for the entire enclosure, and switched separately with an additional contactor and momentary push button. Is this preference, any advantages over the other for either method?

Lastly how are you finding the supplied router cable, IE: porter-cable, this is an unshielded 14ga 2 or 3 conductor cable. Any of you switching this cable over to a continuous flex power cable or are you finding its sufficient as the stock cord snipped at the controller and connected? (I haven't had any issues with it in the machine as it stands for over 2 years.)

Thanks for any input.

Last edited by cncb; Mon 12 October 2009 at 15:47..
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  #42  
Old Mon 19 October 2009, 21:20
cncb
Just call me: Brian
 
Connecticut
United States of America
Anyone ? thanks
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  #43  
Old Mon 19 October 2009, 23:47
buibui
Just call me: John #34
 
Seattle
United States of America
Hi Brian, I'm no expert in this area, but here are my thoughts:

Quote:
since there is already a switch on the router body itself, do you have to turn it on closing it up to the SSR?
I use a contactor instead of SSR, but I believe the concept would be the same...I leave the router body switch on, and turn it on and off with Mach.

Quote:
I have seen the router approached in two different ways; one being switched on with the contactor for the entire enclosure, and switched separately with an additional contactor and momentary push button...any advantages over the other for either method?
One advantage I see with the push button and 2nd contactor method is being able to turn the router on/off without having to reach into the y-car, especially when the y-car is out of reach. I wired mine this way, except used the PMDX relay instead of a push button to switch it on/off. My 2nd contactor is also wired through the main contactor so that it shuts down (along with everything else) when the e-stop is pushed.

Quote:
Any of you switching this cable over to a continuous flex power cable or are you finding its sufficient as the stock cord snipped at the controller and connected?
Not sure about this one...I didn't want to take a chance and wired my shielded cable directly to the router.
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  #44  
Old Tue 20 October 2009, 05:43
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
John,
I have been using my Home Depot 12/3 flexible extension cord for the router for a few years now without cause or issue. I personally enjoy having the router switch available during tool change operations. Removing the power near the tooling change just adds a nice backup to the machine turning the spindle on by itself. I have had the Charge pump operation fail during power fluctuations in the shop. The router didn't stay on...but the less than a second pulse of the power to the router would have been enough to hurt!

If you read JR's forum, you will see he put a nice little disconnect switch at the top of his Z-slide for this operation. I just use the Porter Cable factory sealed switch.

Good luck with your choices.

Sean
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  #45  
Old Tue 20 October 2009, 20:53
cncb
Just call me: Brian
 
Connecticut
United States of America
Thanks John and Sean for the info provided. I like JR's switch, its simple and extra security when you can't rely on the comp/relay to be 100%.
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  #46  
Old Tue 20 October 2009, 22:49
buibui
Just call me: John #34
 
Seattle
United States of America
Sean brings up a good point that I failed to mention. I do still have the router switch intact (I didn't remove or bypass the factory switch, just replaced the cord) and can still use it as a backup for tool changes. However, I normally shut down at the main switch during tool changes, as I'm leary of the gantry or y-car moving in addition to the router accidentally turning on.

Slight paranoia, but I don't put it past myself to drop my shuttle, bump the router switch, or make some other clumsy move during such critical times.
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  #47  
Old Mon 01 March 2010, 20:33
cncb
Just call me: Brian
 
Connecticut
United States of America
Appreciate your advice in the past guys. Wondered if I could throw a few more at you.

In regards to Mach3, what kind of delay time if any are you giving the router when switched on through Mach before it starts to jog into the program? Do you use the tool change so that you have to hit cycle start twice so you can hit cycle start - verify spindle is up to speed and then hit it again? Thanks.
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  #48  
Old Tue 02 March 2010, 07:24
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
With the router I used to delay one second. With the spindle I delay five seconds, but I have a nice gradual rampup on my spindle speed programmed into my VFD.
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  #49  
Old Tue 02 March 2010, 10:39
cncb
Just call me: Brian
 
Connecticut
United States of America
Was it simply a time delay or did you have to hit cycle start again?
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  #50  
Old Tue 02 March 2010, 12:26
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Simple time delay in the gcode. (G4 P1 or G4 P5)
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  #51  
Old Tue 02 March 2010, 13:11
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
Send a message via MSN to riesvantwisk Send a message via Skype™ to riesvantwisk
Quote:
Originally Posted by smreish View Post
John,
šI have had the Charge pump operation fail during power fluctuations in the shop. The router didn't stay on...but the less than a second pulse of the power to the router would have been enough to hurt!
Sean,

I second this. I had my computer shutting off because of overheating twice and my router switched on/off very vast during the event making it spin for a split second. I didn't got hurt, however after that I always switch off my router during a bit change.

Ries
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  #52  
Old Tue 02 March 2010, 17:14
Greolt
Just call me: Greg
 
Victoria
Australia
If using Mach3 there is no need to add a "G4 P#" to code for a spindle run up delay.

This delay can be set in Config / Ports and Pins / Spindle Setup.

Greg
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  #53  
Old Sun 04 April 2010, 22:25
timberlinemd
Just call me: Steve #66
 
Arizona
United States of America
G540 and the router SSR

Most of this thread talks about the PMDX-122 in relation to the SSR. I have the G540 and I think that I will have to add a DC power supply to power the SSR. My motor power supply is at 37v DC which is too high for my 3-32v DC SSR. I believe that the outputs on the G540 (terminals 5 & 6) are only a switch which controls the DC voltage that goes to the SSR and I will have to supply that voltage. Can anyone tell me if my logic is sound?
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  #54  
Old Sun 04 April 2010, 23:49
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
I don't know the G540, but I am fairly sure that the G540's output is 5V and will switch your SSR directly.
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  #55  
Old Mon 05 April 2010, 04:37
Richards
Just call me: Mike
 
South Jordan, UT
United States of America
The schematic for the G540 (which is posted on the Gecko forum on Yahoo, v. March 2, 2008) doesn't seem to match the description of the G540's data sheet; however, it shows outputs 5 and 6 as the open-collector side of Field Effect Transistors.

An open collector connection acts as a current SINK (as opposed to a current SOURCE).

A current sink is like a switch that connects one side of a device to ground. It assumes that you have the other side of the device connected to a source of voltage. When it turns on it sinks current (or pulls current through the device).

A current source is like a switch that connects one side of a device to the source of voltage - like a light switch. It assumes that the other side of the device is connected to ground. When it turns on, it sources current (or furnishes the voltage to the device).

With the G540, you would connect the + side of the control logic for an SSR to the appropriate voltage (+3v to +32v, but typically +5v) and the - side of the control logic to terminal 5 or 6 on the G540. When the PC commands parallel port pin #17 to activate, an internal opto-isolator (1/4th of an ILQ74 package) turns on the FET that is connected to terminal #5 which would allow current to flow through the control logic of the SSR. When the PC commands parallel port pin #1 to activate, terminal #6 on the G540 would activate.

That description assumes that the operation of the G540 basically follows that old schematic.
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  #56  
Old Mon 05 April 2010, 05:20
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
I can confirm that Mike's description is how I've driven SSRs with my G540.
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  #57  
Old Wed 09 March 2011, 08:15
dakmonf
Just call me: dakmon
 
Alberta
Canada
Router Contactor

In post # 43 John states that he connected his router contactor to his main contactor. I am trying to accomplish this as well but am having some wiring difficulties. I am using a Teco CN-16 and a CN-22 contactor . The main contactor wiring is fine and the table moves as it should but I cannot seem to get the wiring for the router contactor correct.
Can someone please give me advice on how to wire this.

Thanks

Greg
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  #58  
Old Wed 09 March 2011, 12:58
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Hi Greg. Can you clarify what you are trying to accomplish? I'll assume that you want the main contactor to cut all power, and the router contactor to switch the router on and off under computer control- as long as the main contactor is already on.

The challenge here is how to get the 120vac (or 24vac or 240vac) to switch the router contactor from the low voltage DC signal coming from your computer. To accomplish this, you generally need either a relay with a low voltage coil (sometimes provided by BOBs), or ... an SSR. If you are already going to drive an SSR, the router contactor is pretty redundant. If you have a BOB controlled relay that can switch the voltage and amperage required by the router contactor, then you have a path forward without an SSR.

So you can go with low voltage BOB signal to SSR to router, or with low voltage BOB signal to relay driver to low voltage relay to contactor. Unless you already have that relay provided by your BOB, I'd take the SSR approach.

Getting back to your question on the wiring of the contactors themselves, you likely want to feed the line side of the router contactor from the load side of the main contactor. No other relationship between the contactor circuits. Similarly, in the SSR approach you would power the SSR to router circuit from the load side of the main contactor.
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  #59  
Old Wed 09 March 2011, 13:37
dakmonf
Just call me: dakmon
 
Alberta
Canada
Brad;

Thanks for the reply. I would like to be able to turn my router on and off using Mach as shutting it down through the main switch on my panel.
I assume that I will have to go through the main contactor and through the relay on my PMDX 122 but the exact wiring is confusing me. I do not have an SSR but I do have another contactor.

Thanks

Greg

Last edited by dakmonf; Wed 09 March 2011 at 13:54..
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  #60  
Old Wed 09 March 2011, 14:04
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Okay, assuming you have a 120v control box, 120v router, and two 120v contactors, and you have the main working fine, and the main is switching the neutral on T1 to L1, and the hot on T2 to L2

From the main contactor, run L1 to T1 on the router contactor. Same for L2 main to T2 router contactor. This provides the power to be switched.

From the router contactor, Run L1 and L2 to the router. Run a ground too, of course.
That's the drive circuit.

Now, for the control circuit. Run the neutral from L1 on the main (or T1 on the router contactor, they are the same), to A1 (coil) on the router contactor. Run from A2 (coil) on the router contactor to one side of the relay on the PMDX (J7-1). Run from the other side of the relay on the PMDX (J7-2) to hot on L2 on the main (or T2 on the router contactor).

So, both the router power, and the router control power are only available when the main is switched on. The router power is then switched again by the router contactor. The router contactor coil is switched by the relay on the PMDX.

Note: I've never seen a PMDX-122. I'm working from the User's Manual Revision 1.11, which also states that the relay contacts can handle 10 amps at 24, 120 or 240V in Section 9, and gives the relay connector data in Section 4.4.

Does that help?

Last edited by bradm; Wed 09 March 2011 at 14:06.. Reason: Additional Clarification.
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