Work Horse Rebuild - Lac-Brome, Quebec, CA

[Robert M]

Happy new year to all !!!

Some news on what happened on the past holidays.
Even if my budget is not up to what is needed, the renovation not completed, I still when on with the re-assemble of the beast.
Let me tell ya, it felt SSSoooo good seeing it taking shape.
Now the more serious stuff….back to work, therefore this will have to slow down, but I hope I will be able to make ‘bettsy’ in moving mode by the end of this month !
Will follow up !
Later,

1re-etapes_01-01-13.jpg

[barry99705]

Originally Posted by Robert M

Happy new year to all !!!

Some news on what happened on the past holidays.
Even if my budget is not up to what is needed, the renovation not completed, I still when on with the re-assemble of the beast.
Let me tell ya, it felt SSSoooo good seeing it taking shape.
Now the more serious stuff….back to work, therefore this will have to slow down, but I hope I will be able to make ‘bettsy’ in moving mode by the end of this month !
Will follow up !
Later,

Drywall is for wimps!!!

[Robert M]

After being away from my beast ant Mach3 software over the past 2yrs and as I'm trying to get back in to it, I was hopping if someone can direct me as if there is none issue with Mach3 and windows 7.
So far, I’ve install it statically on my PC and it appears to my ‘out of beat’ eye, all fine when I pulled some old NC codes I had !
Version I’ve installed is R3.042.040 coz, when I’ll be more at ease to what I was 2yrs ago, I then intend to reload GER 2010 screen set.

I’ve put this info on my thread as it kinda regards my dormant old ability seeking to be brought up to beat, but…..if this info can be ‘sharable’ / useful to others, why not move this to the appropriate thread ?
Thanks in advance, Robert

[domino11]

Robert,
Are you running the 32bit or 64 bit version of Win 7? I think there was a problem with the 64 bit.

[Robert M]

I’ll be more specific !
My controller has a older board & Win-XP version running with Mach3 R3.42.040 since early days…..all is fine as it is a specific stand alone for the beast !!!

As for my other computer ( office ) I’m running Win7-64k and I’ve simply install Mach3 same version. At this point, don’t see any trouble….but….!? wondering !!
Simply, before I go and do some massive reading and making searches on other forums, I was wondering if anyone here had, heard or know some issues with Mach3 and Win 7 ( 32 or 64 ).

[domino11]

From what I remember the 32 bit win 7 was supposed to work fine with mach3. The 64 bit version had issues, not sure what they were, but may have been paralell port related. Best to check the Mach 3 forum.

[Surfcnc]

The 32 bit driver in Mach3 works perfectly with Windows 7.
The front page of the Mach3 web site states clearly there is no 64 bit support (put another way there is no 64 bit driver).
A Windows 7 64 bit system can still run the machine using Mach3.
To do this Mach3 uses a pluggin supplied by an external hardware vendor to communicate with that specific hardware.

The Mach3 software loads and runs perfectly on a 64 bit system.
It does not however communicate with the breakout board via the parallel port.

Regards
Ross

[Robert M]

Thanks for your input ROSS !
It explains why my “static” test on my Win 7-64bit office desktop is working just fine.
I do / did not need at this point to “communicate” with my controller…..since my beast is just not ready yet to be…..fired

After going some good reading on other forum, I think it is safe to conclude and say that using WIN7-32bit on a standalone computer for a controller will work as fine as Windows-XP !
BTW….my controller is still plugged with a Win-XP version….at this point, till it will last / serve me !
Later

[Robert M]

Hi all....

Have a bugg....bothering me for some time...few years I'd say !!
Has anyone of your guys have gotten the "hit a wall" of say "exes fatigue" feeling BUT only after a small time, like 1hr or so, of being behind your screen, say "programming" or drawing parts.
I'm getting so much fatigue, my eye (and brains) feel heavy to a point they almost shot-close them self like a sleep deprivation / mid day snooz time !!

Wondering if it's me.....or many "computing for work" other guys too ?? ??

Tks

[Andrew_standen]

I start programming parts at work at 8am, I finish at 16:30 then drive home.
After supper ( 18:00) I start programming my own parts for my Mechmate, if I havent solved a problem by 01:00 I give up !!
I have to leave for work at 06:30.
I've been doing this for 20 years or so, and yes some days you hit a wall.... but that only happens once every couple or maybe three months.
So maybe I'm getting the hang of it... just maybe !! lol

[Robert M]

Woooww....that's over 10hrs x day Andrew !!
I'm done, like "kaputt".....after 5-6hrs....then I fall almost to sleep, have to battle my eye cause they only want to shot close !!

Ya, sure, on an odd ball day, if work or....mechmate duty's call for....I may be able to stretch beyond that.....but, not on a daily basis....
YOU'RE GOOD....and lucky as far as I'm concerns / comparing !

Any though or "known'" reasons why some ( like me) just can't anymore stretch a few hrs in front a this screen ?!

[Andrew_standen]

Could be anything like the screen is too bright or too close, or you just need to take more breaks.
I don't stare at the screen all the time and take a break every 20mins for at least 5mins.
Good luck in finding a solution to your problem.

[isladelobos]

Nice machine Robert.

We need see this running !!!

[Robert M]

Andrew, thks for your input.....will work on those !
Although, I've been trying to respect those "known" issues....maybe it's an age thing between my ears
Must admit, I may not all the time respect this 20min schedule !
Thks...

Ros....Thks for your complement.....trust me, I too want to see it back in business.....soo, soo it will

[Robert M]

Hi all….
May someone teacher / explain me what can be the difference in some contactors.
Asking as I need to replace one of mines and while I could simply replace my “TECO” model, my curious mind started to wonder around and fond some over 200$ with the +/- same tech values !?
So….wondering is this a reflection of “quality”….and what makes it so better to pay 5 and more time the TECO verison ?!
Thks….Robert

[pblackburn]

This is a long subject matter Robert.

A contactor is a definite purpose relay for a usually 3 phase equipment. Normally comes with only 1 auxiliary contact. The difference is the make-break rating of the contactor. Usually even if the specs look the same one thing is different. Generally IEC is less expensive than NEMA. NEMA contact tips have a larger surface area for the same rated HP as an IEC contactor. An IEC is a throw away item and not rebuildable whereas a NEMA contactor every part can be replaced. Contactors usually have overload assemblies on them. Most IEC OLs are electronic where most NEMA are thermal.

[pblackburn]

If you are using an IEC contactor the general rule we use in the manufacturing plant I work at is to upsize the HP rating by 1 as the arcing with the smaller contact tip of an IEC is more prevalent.

[pblackburn]

Here is a Size 0 contactor, you can see the ratings at the bottom.

Here is an IEC with the same HP rating at 230V 3ph

[Robert M]

Pete….. This is great !!
Well appreciated, even if this is modest explanation, it serve me well enough to get the little basics !
By your experience, what makes the Schneider +/- 5x more $ then the TECO…even if both are IEC !
Obvious answer from a ignorant guy in this field…. me…..would be variables as where is it manufactured, quality components and….well we can assume / apply prices rules we already know…..but….5x ??
From NEMA to IEC….that thks to you, I now can see / understand…..but from IEC to another one….such a big gap ?
Is the TECO that…..well….cheap !!

Another one If a may push.....
What's the diff in Load Amps-Inductive vs Resistive?

Thank you very much for your patience….& time Pete !
Later

[pblackburn]

The difference is every load tries to return to its resistive state. Most loads are inductive and very few capacitive or resistive. This gets into reactance which is a study of its own.

If you are running a motor always go by the inductive rating. If you are running electric baseboard heat then Resistive.

There are quality differences in the manufacturers, is Schneider that much better, no but it is a better quality. There is always some money in the name of any product. Grainger is a higher priced vendor, you get a price break if you are an industrial facility but not so if you are a regular joe. It was only to show the difference in price of the 2 types. I personally prefer Allen Bradley and Square D(Schneider) products.

We have machines built in the 40's and 50's with that same NEMA contactors in them, you will not get that type of service from an IEC. So the choice is yours, if you were to purchase an IEC, purchase one that is double the amp rating that you require and it will last a long time.

I hope that helps you is some way.

[Robert M]

"I hope that helps you is some way."

It does, it does !.....allot more then some may think !!!
I see more clear now about those nice "magnetics switches" !

The funny thing, in reference to quality and stress on the long run.....mine ( witch by the way is terms of usage, it could be consider almost....new !! ....but it has a few yrs!!) it's recent trouble is on the coil side, not the "through" poles !?!....
Moistur seems the factor !!

Thks allot Pete.....enjoy a great W-end

[servant74]

If you or a good buddy work for a big firm that runs lots of $$ through Granger, you can go to Granger with a business card or company ID and get the 'big company' discount as a 'company employee', but you pay (I like cash in this case, so nothing ever goes back to the company telling them I have 'personal projects', but I am just paranoid for no good reason like that).

My son got discounts because he ordered from them while at college and had the stuff delivered (normally for free) next day to his college 'tech shop'. Could have been a local deal, I don't know.

Just a few thoughts. Saving nickles always helps.

[Robert M]

Hi all,

While on a quote project, I realized I must finally act to improve my cut quality since to date, I still do not have my tranys completed & functional !
I been getting by without tranys since I've been mostly rough cutting panels and alike!
Now, I’m called for many 3d cut…..requiring a better cut finish !

Question is….How may I improve my cutting quality, minimizing “chatter” marks that typically one without a transmission makes…..till I finish & install my tranys ?
Have to admit….this is an area I’ve never adjust nor study….yet !
Any guidance will be much appreciated
Thks

[Surfcnc]

Hi Robert

Do a rough cut using a machining allowance then use a finishing path for 2D work.
For 3D finishing work increase stepover of the bit past the typical 10% and/or cut 2 finishing passes at 90 degrees to each other.

With some stepper motor drivers it is also possible to increase the microsteps. You might need to decrease the cut speed so as to still not miss steps.

Ross

[pblackburn]

Ross always has great information to pass on. I am glad he is still here.

I have been reading back through your thread and trying to gather all information possible to give you a good answer. My first question is "Is your machine tight?" or in other words when you set up a dial indicator and push and pull on the gantry or car, do you see any deflection? You should not have any with direct drive. It looks as if you have 1100 oz motors from the pictures and it does not sound like missing steps but it may be.

Your are still using the 20 tooth pinions?

The more information you provide to us the better we can assist you in this.

My fear is there may be an underlying problem that even updating the resolution may only apply makeup to but not totally resolve the problem. Some problems can be so simple they are just overlooked but others as very well hidden. I was talking to an engineer yesterday at work about a machine problem we were having. The so called identical sister of the machine runs totally different. He said he had a professor tell him that every machine will have its own personality. In theory, they are the same but practicality has proven that they will always be subtle differences that make them unique. How true that statement was.

[Robert M]

THks Ross & Pete !

Ross ; Thanks for reminding me those tricks !
Also, you say “some stepper motor drivers it is also possible to increase the microsteps” ?
May you shorten my knowledge and/or memory as it fails to remember which one can?
I’m using Gecko 203
What max feed speed should I go in order to get best microstep ?

Pete: Thks for looking into it !
It’s thigh best I check a few mo ago !
Don’t think my situation reflects this….It’s more since I’m direct drive….for now !
Looking to improve cut resolution as a direct drive till I finish ( take time to ) my tranys !
BTW…1100 oz motos ..... killers hein !!
No…mines are 450 N.cm = 637.25 oz-in
Wondering where can I “trim” my motion / motors ( say by Mach3 or else) ?
I’m looking more in depth into the cam part, some can be done there also

Later….

[pblackburn]

Okay, I just try to rule out mechanical before software. Ross is spot on.

[danilom]

Steppers usually have a resonance problem around 250-300 Rpm
so by avoiding feeds around this rpm helps. But as you have no reduction in place then it would happen at very high cut speeds (depending on pinion size)
Geckos 203 works at 10 microstep fixed so only thing you can do is to try the tuning pot on them maybe?

For some time I use conventional cut direction and it gives me much nicer cut and leaves swarf on opposite edge of the part.

[Surfcnc]

Robert

Danilo has given you the answer on your Gecko's.
Saw the 5 Gecko's in your build thread but vaguely threw that in as others might be able to get the machine to run smoother using a different microstep resolution.

Pete is correct on slop in the machine but their are ways to try to minimise it especially when doing 3D work.

Offset toolpaths that run in ever increasing squares from the center to the outside of the work will show slop in the machine as it turns each corner on the tools journey to the outside edge.
Raster paths that run from one outside edge of the work to the other can hide some of the slop on the perimeter edges.
This can give a cleaner cut on the majority of the work piece.
This can be further improved by offsetting a vector past the actual edge of the 3D work, that way some of the wiggle in the machine from a direction change happens outside the actual work.
You end up with a solution that blends errors rather than highlights them.

In 3D work the Z needs to go up and down quickly, very quickly.
Setting the acceleration high is probably more important than setting the outright speed high.
It is easy to fool yourself into thinking the machine is going quickly when in fact it never actually gets to the top speed before the next tiny move is required in the opposite direction.

For 3D work never cut out the flats on your stock.
Always keep the tool working on the model itself by throwing a boundary around the model and do not cut the model out of the "whole" of the stock.
For 3D roughing increase the stepover as much as possible to reduce the machining time.
Nothing interesting happens here except for removal of waste, so no need to make the roughing pass a work of art.

A hardware solution might be to install a motion control board as many others have.
These are typically very easy to install in comparison to the effort of fabricating belt reduction drives (although clearly they are not the same).
Motion controllers really come into their own when speed is needed.
With 3D work speed is pretty important so if your Mach3 machine controller is temporarily distracted with another process things might not happen "exactly" as "planned".
This is a good article by Bob Warfield http://blog.cnccookbook.com/2011/12/...-grade-part-2/.

Hope this helps

Ross

[Robert M]

Ross….
Hope is wishful…..your help is FACT …..and without any doubt about it !!

As many time it has been said, I must thks for your time & effort to help and support this forum…..and that goes to say giving me some light !

Thks for these 3D tips, I’ve learn a lot from those !!
As for motion controller, I’ve been a SS user for quite a while and would never look back !
Some great reminder when Danilo specified this resonance problem which I have to admit I’ve forgotten.

I would like to point out, although I’ve been around for ages on this forum, my actual Mechmate usage experience is very little in terms on hrs vs those yrs !....especially this past few yrs due to relocating after separation.
As a furniture maker, money is not as abundant as say…..been ahead of a major glamour business @_@ !!
So, priorities ruled and the …..unfortunate Beast had to be put to “tempo sleep” for two years.
Only this past few mounts I’ve “fired” up again this beauty on a “regular” basis !

So….al this to say….THKS to this close knit group witch I’m proud to be part of….and some time refer to and rely on !

Those past few post have given me some good tips and eye openers on what I was hopping / looking for!
MANY thks to y’all…..and please, let’s stay an expending “close knit” group !

Amicalement, Robert

PS...out of curiosity....and knowledge, anyone care presenting FACTS about SmoothStepper VS Dynomotion KLFLOP as to, witch one can be better for our usages !??