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  #1  
Old Mon 04 January 2010, 12:25
toad
Just call me: Toad #80
 
Burlington NC
United States of America
does anyone offer a kit with 7:1 reduction with nema 34 motors . . . . .

does anyone offer a kit with 7:1 reduction with nema 34 motors with power supply and controllers, etc.

Toad
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  #2  
Old Mon 04 January 2010, 14:29
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
Most folks that are doing tranny's are doing 3 or 4 to one. Chopper's 4 to 1 plans seem to be popular.
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  #3  
Old Mon 04 January 2010, 15:34
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
The 7.2:1 reductions you see are the geared Oriental Motors.
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  #4  
Old Mon 04 January 2010, 17:58
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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I’d say no, if it’s a “whole shebang kit” you’re looking for !
But…as Heath advise you, Oriental Motors sells motor with trany assembled, see part PK******-SG72 ( IE # PK296A1A-SG72)...
but for the rest, you will need to by them separately from what I know to date
Robert
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  #5  
Old Mon 04 January 2010, 19:24
PEU
Just call me: Pablo
 
Buenos Aires
Argentina
AFAIK single stage reductions with sincronic belts are limited to 4:1, but my knowledge is not vast in this are, so maybe there is something else out there.

One thing that would be interesting is to score 4 similar 10:1 harmonic gears at ebay, these are super precision reductions and they usually sell for less than $100 at ebay, problem is finding 4 with the same specs.

I played with the concept last year, did a 100:1 reducer, I always wondered since then how a single stage, wire EDMed would work, mechanicals arent that difficult. Here is a video I did back then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvIyG6DhlZE
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  #6  
Old Thu 07 January 2010, 09:33
chopper
Just call me: chopper
 
Big Lake Minnesota
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by toad View Post
does anyone offer a kit with 7:1 reduction with nema 34 motors with power supply and controllers, etc.

Toad
Toad,
I have done a little research on this and according to my calculations more than a 4to1 or 5to1 is a waste, (this is my opinion)I am sure others will disagree
but when you do the math past 4 to 1 the gains get so small that I do not think it is worth the effort, if I remember correctly the gain after 4 to 1 is less than a ten-thousands of an inch ( I think it was in the microns actually)
per step which is minute in the aspect of resolution I am just shooting these numbers off the top of my head it has been awhile since the calculations were done and I do not have them written down any more, I believe that going past 4 to 1 ( this is what I have ) is non productive. check out the cuts that are possible with the 4 to 1,here http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1936 I also want to state that they are belt drive, the reason for this is the 7.2's have a back lash problem with the geared reductions I do not know much about the reductions that Pablo has mentioned 10:1 harmonic gears at ebay, these are super precision reductions and they usually sell for less than $100 at ebay, problem is finding 4 with the same specs. I just know that what I have works,..
the choice is up to you, good luck..
//chopper
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  #7  
Old Thu 07 January 2010, 09:49
toad
Just call me: Toad #80
 
Burlington NC
United States of America
Thanks,
I think I am going to try direct drive and later if needed, I can add reduction through a belt drive.

Toad
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  #8  
Old Thu 07 January 2010, 10:29
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
A cheaper option to the oriental motors are fulling steppers.

The downside is lower max rpm.

I run FL86STH80-4208BG7.5.

http://fullingmotorusa.com/default.aspx

... but imho Chopper is right, 4:1 is adequate gear reduction with a small pinion gear.

Last edited by lumberjack_jeff; Thu 07 January 2010 at 10:33.. Reason: added link
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  #9  
Old Thu 07 January 2010, 14:08
chopper
Just call me: chopper
 
Big Lake Minnesota
United States of America
I failed to mention as Jeff pointed out I am running 20 tooth pinions with kelling 450 ozin motors I chose them for several reasons the smaller pinions do not magnify drive problems like backlash, and they keep the resolution tighter...the 450 ozin motors have a low inertia so they speed up and slow down quickly, and with the 4 to 1 reductions it multiplies the torque, if you multiply 450 x 4 you get 1800 ozin of torque, I am sure some of this is lost in the mechanics of the reduction but it has more torque than the 7.2's I had and they are much faster, all in all it seems to be a better setup than the geared reductions I was running before...
//chopper
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  #10  
Old Thu 07 January 2010, 18:57
toad
Just call me: Toad #80
 
Burlington NC
United States of America
So, are you saying that I would be better off going with the 4:1 reduction rather than going direct. I am going to use the 20 tooth pinion. What kind of cost do the Fuller motors have, and what drives will work with them?
Toad
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  #11  
Old Thu 07 January 2010, 19:00
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
The fuller motors have more backlash than the OMs from what I have heard. They are cheaper though.
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  #12  
Old Thu 07 January 2010, 19:15
chopper
Just call me: chopper
 
Big Lake Minnesota
United States of America
I am using kelling motors, they were 80 dollars each when I bought mine,
you can go direct and build the reductions later if you like, it is all up to you
but knowing what I know I would build them while doing the machine, I am not tiring to tell you what to do that is up to you, I am just sharing what I know..
I also wouldn't use the fulling gear reduced motors either if you want a reduction use a belt, the deal with the gear reduced motors that I have seen you cannot remove the gear box and use just the motor because the shaft on the motor has a gear cut into it so it is useless with out the gear box, that is why you are better off going with a standard motor because later you can add the reductions to the with out issue..
here are the part numbers :kelling 450 ozin motors # KL34H260-60-4A (remember that the 450 ozin is multiplied by 4 with the transmissions so the end torque is 1800 ozin)
the following are the parts for the belt drives stock drive,http://sdp-si.com
the 72 tooth pulley is part number A6A3-72NF03716 @ 31.97 each
the 18 tooth pulley is part number A6A3-18H3716 @ 10.98 each
the belt is a 200xl with Kevlar reinforcement part number A6B3-080037 @ 7.61 each
//chopper

Last edited by chopper; Thu 07 January 2010 at 19:23..
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  #13  
Old Thu 07 January 2010, 19:32
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
The fullers have comparable backlash. Their limitation is corner speed.
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  #14  
Old Thu 07 January 2010, 20:56
toad
Just call me: Toad #80
 
Burlington NC
United States of America
Thanks all, I appreciate the advise. experience is after all the best teacher. I am learning, and with your support I will continue to do so.

Thanks
Toad
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  #15  
Old Thu 07 January 2010, 20:59
hennie
Just call me: Hennie #23
 
Roodepoort JHB
South Africa
I am happy with my Fulling motors with the 3:1 gearbox I am running 32 tooth pinions
FL86ST125-3508AG3 on module 1 racks.I have found that the prefered sweet spot to run the machine at is 45 mm/sec and if I do detailed stuff I bring the speed down to 15-25 mm/sec on the big cuts that I do I push the speed up to 80 mm /sec and still get the same cut as at 45 mm/sec and when it goes home it hits the the same spot as where it started.(have just ordered another 4 motors for Mech Spray)
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  #16  
Old Thu 07 January 2010, 21:58
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
Hennie, what is a Mech Spray ?
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  #17  
Old Fri 08 January 2010, 01:37
Kobus_Joubert
Just call me: Kobus #6
 
Riversdale Western Cape
South Africa
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For people that cannot paint with a roller or brush
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  #18  
Old Sat 09 January 2010, 10:13
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
It sounded like he was building a CNC sprayer perhaps.
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  #19  
Old Sat 09 January 2010, 12:28
hennie
Just call me: Hennie #23
 
Roodepoort JHB
South Africa
Heath are you curious?I am planning my next MM but instead of putting a spindle on it I am going to put a spray nozzle.It is not easy to spray a sheet of material that is 1220 wide and then do it evenly.We spray adhesive onto sheets 1220 x 2750 and never do we get an even coating ,there is a lot of overspray and wastage.With this setup with a spray gun attached to the z-axis I can adjust the hight of the spray also.And the best of it is that I don`t need skilled labour to do it and I am at that point that I think I sprayed enough for another lifetime (labour on my side of the world is not verry reliable)I can also get an even coating when we spray high body primer.I like to soak whatever I spray with my 1st coat of primer therefore I can set the speed at which I spray also.It is probably going to take me the same time to build as with #23.
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  #20  
Old Sat 09 January 2010, 14:39
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
Hennie,
Thats what I thought you might be inferring. Sounds very interesting.
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  #21  
Old Sat 09 January 2010, 14:52
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
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Hennie

Thats an interesting challenge - you might want to think about a moving table (some sort of continous belt system) and at least two guns (one pointing to X0 and one pointing to X max) that way you also get to spray the leading and trailing edges of the boards or into the profiles of those fancy MDF doors. On our Venjakob we had four guns, all effectively pointing to the centre of the table on a reciprocating Y axis. This carriage moves left and right continously as the product moves forward under the guns. We had options to switch the guns on when pushing, pulling or both; depending on how much paint we wanted to apply (of course we could also adjust the gun flow rate by adjusting the pressure on the paint pump). It's not an easy thing to do (building and setting up an automatic spray machine) but I am sure it is possible with the knowledge we have acquired building the MechMate.

Your biggest challenge is going to be the actual paint application system and choice of what material to spray so you dont end up with streaky finishes, clogged lines, dirty guns and a substantial solvent account. Water based materials are obviously the way to go but they are not quite there yet (at least for us in SA). Our solvent based options are still quite a bit cheaper.
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  #22  
Old Sat 09 January 2010, 21:26
hennie
Just call me: Hennie #23
 
Roodepoort JHB
South Africa
Alan I would only use it for spraying flat surfaces and even with one spray gun it would still do a beter job than Gatiep.Yes I know there is some big challenges waiting with a lot of sleepless knights.Most of the application would be adhesives that we use for wrapping foil boards.It is purely a mist that goes onto the board when one sprays it on, but the big thing is to do it evenly because if it is not and one cuts the board it tends to delaminate at the bottom side of the board specially if it is a double face press.The glue is a water base.The other product would be high body white primer so there would be two or three pipes feeding paint or glue to the knozzle.I would also have more than one guns as it would not be easy to clean it on the machine.( boer sal `n plan maak )
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  #23  
Old Sat 09 January 2010, 23:51
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
I may sound anti-climax here but would it be cheaper & faster to make simple motorised gantry with multiple nozzle mounted? Drive by a DC motor with a veriable speed knob. & the height adjust by lead screw or fixed holes? you only need 1 pass & you can decide how many nozzles you use depending on the width of the board.
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  #24  
Old Sun 10 January 2010, 03:11
hennie
Just call me: Hennie #23
 
Roodepoort JHB
South Africa
Ken yes it would be but if I need to spray one door I can go and do just that one door and if I don`t get it right or get to a point when I don`t want to spray anymore I can put a router on it and start cutting .
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  #25  
Old Tue 12 January 2010, 06:28
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
aaaah....
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  #26  
Old Thu 28 January 2010, 00:08
peter__jackson
Just call me: peter
 
gauteng
South Africa
CNC Direct seems to have 7-1 nema motors and gearboxes, I saw them on his shelf. as well as info on stepper motors, price unknown. based in JHB

For reduction gear boxes and and sprockets in the US try https://.sdp-si.com

This will take you dirrect to nema motors with gearboxes ,pick your own rotio. https://sdp-si.com/eStore/Direct.asp?GroupID=203
also check out the gear head section
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