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  #61  
Old Fri 05 October 2012, 06:07
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
Ken, 40C and 55C seem a little warmer that I'd like to see the electronics before you're even moving motors around. I see you have fans - is there an air inlet hiding somewhere not shown in the photos?

Your description appears to say that on your first test, Up and Down moved the Z,
and after swapping pin numbers for your second test, Up and Down STILL moved the Z.

If that is the case, then clearly your software configuration isn't taking hold, and you need to look at that.

I would use a multimeter on the "direction" input to your drivers, and confirm that you are getting the expected changes when you have the computer command one direction and then the other. Also, you mentioned that your gantry (Y) is the one that isn't moving. That's the one with two motors. Do you have one or two sets of pins controlling the drivers for the Y? Perhaps you can post a list of which pins are wired to which drivers, and a screen shot of your config. You might even find the problem while you're doing that. <grin>
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  #62  
Old Fri 05 October 2012, 06:27
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
There are no ventilation, the panel is sealed... I think 55C is a tat too warm... may have to put in a piltier cooler in there or figure out something for cooling...

Yes, the gantry (Y) is the one with 2 motors, they share the same pin via 2 separate terminals conneted in parallel on the bob, opto isolated.
From the TinyControls PP-BOB-v2 – Parallel Port Breakout Board manual,
"PP-BOB-v2 has dedicated STEP /DIRECTION outputs for four independent axes named X, Y, Z & A axis. The X axis signals are double buffered and taken out to 2 individual connecters named X1 and X2 axis allowing easy connection to 2 motors on the same axis."

I should had posted the pinout list earlier... my bad...

##PS,
I went through the wiring again & realized I must had went color blind when I was connecting up Y1, & Y2... corrected accordingly, I don't think this mistake will burn the Driver... but I'm sure the motors are alive & well

(OUTPUT) Pin 1 => charge pump (on board charge pump)
(OUTPUT) Pin 2 => STEP for Y1-axis & Y2-Axis (share pin with separate opto-isolated terminal)
(OUTPUT) Pin 3 => DIR for Y1-axis & Y2-axis (share pin with separate opto-isolated terminal)
(OUTPUT ) Pin 4 => STEP for X-axis
(OUTPUT) Pin 5 => DIR for X-axis
(OUTPUT ) Pin 6 => STEP for Z-axis
(OUTPUT ) Pin 7 => DIR for Z-axis
(OUTPUT ) Pin 8 => -----
(OUTPUT ) Pin 9 => Plasma ARC ON/OFF->Mach3 《ENABLE 1》
(INPUT ) Pin10 => CAP04 (Yellow) UP =>Mach3 《TORCH UP 》
(INPUT ) Pin11 => CAP04 (Green ) DOWN => Mach3 《TORCH DOWN》
(INPUT ) Pin12 => CAP04 (Brown) TOUCH =>Mach3 《PROBE》
(INPUT ) Pin13 => Plasma ARC OK => Mach3 《THC ON>
(INPUT/OUTPUT) Pin14 => Limit switches
(INPUT ) Pin15 => E-Stop in pin (dedicated pin on BOB) using a 240V relay to from the Physical E-stop circuit to feed a 5V signal via a signal relay should do the job.
(INPUT/OUTPUT) Pin16 => Remote START/RESUME button => Mach3 hot key
(INPUT/OUTPUT) Pin17 => Remote PAUSE button => Mach3 hot key

Last edited by KenC; Fri 05 October 2012 at 06:31..
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  #63  
Old Fri 05 October 2012, 09:01
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Update on troubleshooting

More test & fiddling,
Re-installed Mach3, re-configured, re-whatever I can think off.... No good...
I swap around the Motor pin designation, disregard of what pin number I plug in, including mixing up STEP & DIR of all motors, the result is the same
X-axis (Y-car) response only to Left & Right key, & Z response to up & down key. the Y (twin motors) never response to any key... just bite on hard... Same result using the on screen MPG buttons...

Wiring were checked & re-chanck but don't seem to see any mistake in this department, but I could be wrong...

Its an hour to mid-night, the forum Sages' wise words... starts to ring in my head... "have a pint & everything will be all right"

I'll do just that

Last edited by KenC; Fri 05 October 2012 at 09:07..
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  #64  
Old Fri 05 October 2012, 13:41
aniljangra
Just call me: Anil #44
 
Delhi
India
Send a message via Skype™ to aniljangra
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenC View Post
(OUTPUT) Pin 1 => charge pump (on board charge pump)
(OUTPUT) Pin 2 => STEP for Y1-axis & Y2-Axis (share pin with separate opto-isolated terminal)
(OUTPUT) Pin 3 => DIR for Y1-axis & Y2-axis (share pin with separate opto-isolated terminal)
(OUTPUT ) Pin 4 => STEP for X-axis
(OUTPUT) Pin 5 => DIR for X-axis
(OUTPUT ) Pin 6 => STEP for Z-axis
(OUTPUT ) Pin 7 => DIR for Z-axis
(OUTPUT ) Pin 8 => -----
(OUTPUT ) Pin 9 => Plasma ARC ON/OFF->Mach3 《ENABLE 1》
(INPUT ) Pin10 => CAP04 (Yellow) UP =>Mach3 《TORCH UP 》
(INPUT ) Pin11 => CAP04 (Green ) DOWN => Mach3 《TORCH DOWN》
(INPUT ) Pin12 => CAP04 (Brown) TOUCH =>Mach3 《PROBE》
(INPUT ) Pin13 => Plasma ARC OK => Mach3 《THC ON>
(INPUT/OUTPUT) Pin14 => Limit switches
(INPUT ) Pin15 => E-Stop in pin (dedicated pin on BOB) using a 240V relay to from the Physical E-stop circuit to feed a 5V signal via a signal relay should do the job.
(INPUT/OUTPUT) Pin16 => Remote START/RESUME button => Mach3 hot key
(INPUT/OUTPUT) Pin17 => Remote PAUSE button => Mach3 hot key
Ken,Just saw this and realized there is something wrong, Pins 14,16,17 you marked as (INPUT/OUTPUT) actually can't be used as inputs because they are buffered in OUT direction. If you try to drive these pins externally (treating them inputs) you are actually fighting the output buffer and can destroy it.

Last edited by aniljangra; Fri 05 October 2012 at 13:46..
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  #65  
Old Fri 05 October 2012, 13:55
aniljangra
Just call me: Anil #44
 
Delhi
India
Send a message via Skype™ to aniljangra
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenC View Post
More test & fiddling,
Re-installed Mach3, re-configured, re-whatever I can think off.... No good...
I swap around the Motor pin designation, disregard of what pin number I plug in, including mixing up STEP & DIR of all motors, the result is the same
X-axis (Y-car) response only to Left & Right key, & Z response to up & down key. the Y (twin motors) never response to any key... just bite on hard... Same result using the on screen MPG buttons...

Wiring were checked & re-chanck but don't seem to see any mistake in this department, but I could be wrong...

Its an hour to mid-night, the forum Sages' wise words... starts to ring in my head... "have a pint & everything will be all right"

I'll do just that
Ken, Just a thought, can it be possible that the twin motors are fighting each other ? I mean you need to swap one stepper phase wire from motor to drive if you want them to move in opposite direction (as the step/dir signals are common for both drives)
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  #66  
Old Fri 05 October 2012, 21:24
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Thanks Anil for the heads up. Looks like, I must re-arrange the pins later ,
For now, only the motors are connected, so I hope the BOB is still healthy
I know from previous experience that if everything is working, the twin motor in opposite direction wired, the gantry will move vigorously bot will not trevel. BUT the current situation is that the 2 motors didn't even make a move... hence opposite wired or not isn't an issue.
Will swap a proven working PC with a Mach3 copy in it... I had a hunch that the Mach3 copy is corrupted in some way...
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  #67  
Old Fri 05 October 2012, 21:33
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Hi Ken

As you know we normally slave the A axis to the X axis and then reverse the step direction for the A axis in Mach3.
Your BOB makes provision to slave JP3 "for a gantry style machine" but does not actually make any mention of reversing the axis direction.
I am not good at assumptions so as you have not said specifically - have you dropped the motors to see what happens when they are not in the rack?

Regards
Ross
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  #68  
Old Fri 05 October 2012, 21:40
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Swapping PC didn't work.

Will do as Ross suggest, drop the motor from the rack
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  #69  
Old Fri 05 October 2012, 21:53
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Ken

For the time being just point your attention to the part that does not work.
Instead of slaving on your dual X axis on JP3 connect two separate axis to the motors like X and A and slave them in mach and then reverse the direction of A in Mach.
This will confirm your wiring to the motors.

Regards
Ross
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  #70  
Old Fri 05 October 2012, 22:16
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Like that idea Thanks
Will get on with that.
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  #71  
Old Fri 05 October 2012, 23:23
aniljangra
Just call me: Anil #44
 
Delhi
India
Send a message via Skype™ to aniljangra
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenC View Post
More test & fiddling,
Re-installed Mach3, re-configured, re-whatever I can think off.... No good...
I swap around the Motor pin designation, disregard of what pin number I plug in, including mixing up STEP & DIR of all motors, the result is the same
X-axis (Y-car) response only to Left & Right key, & Z response to up & down key. the Y (twin motors) never response to any key... just bite on hard... Same result using the on screen MPG buttons...

Wiring were checked & re-chanck but don't seem to see any mistake in this department, but I could be wrong...

Its an hour to mid-night, the forum Sages' wise words... starts to ring in my head... "have a pint & everything will be all right"

I'll do just that
Ken, just to rule out problem with BOB, Wiring and Computer Cable, assign each outpput pin as x-axis DIrection in mach (one by one) and use a multimeter to check changing level at BOB terminals (at the same time you can check the other end of wiring that is connected to drives for level change).

By the way did you try to swap the BOB itself, or the Cable ? I see you have 2 of them
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  #72  
Old Fri 05 October 2012, 23:34
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Not yet swap the BOB.

Update, Pull out the twin motor & plug them into pin 8 & 9 together. The motor moved but only in 1 direction.

Will come back after lunch... I'm starving...
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  #73  
Old Sat 06 October 2012, 01:41
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Ken your notes indicate that pin 9 has been set in Mach3 to control your plasma arc. Did you check that it was disabled in Mach before your tests?

Regards
Ross
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  #74  
Old Sat 06 October 2012, 02:11
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Ross, I changed the configuration for test purpose.

Update.

Swapped the PC, MACH3 copy, BOB. Result remains bad.
The last thing to swap is the printer cable, going to local computer shop to get a new piece.

Anything which I over looked???

Last edited by KenC; Sat 06 October 2012 at 02:14..
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  #75  
Old Sat 06 October 2012, 02:18
javeria
Just call me: Irfan #33
 
Bangalore
India
be sure to measure resistance between pins on the extreme ends, more resistance means bad cable!
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  #76  
Old Sat 06 October 2012, 03:43
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Swapped to a short cable...
Nothing works!!!
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  #77  
Old Sat 06 October 2012, 05:09
javeria
Just call me: Irfan #33
 
Bangalore
India
ken have you set up the charge pump in mach?
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  #78  
Old Sat 06 October 2012, 07:11
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Also, Have you checked the e-stop circuit.
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  #79  
Old Sat 06 October 2012, 23:26
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Sean, I did set up the charge pump in Mach3, it works ok as I see the charge pump LED on the BOB lit up gloriously.
Also, the e-stop works flawlessly too.

I took the night off for re-read the Mach3 manual word by word. will re-install Mach & see what happens next...

Last edited by KenC; Sat 06 October 2012 at 23:29..
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  #80  
Old Sun 07 October 2012, 01:45
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Even more update,
After some fun playing with my 5 year old, I came back & re arrange the motor pins, both physically on the BOB & in Mach3 assignment.
I found out that pin 2 & 3 on the bob doesn't work. hence I use pin 8 & 9 which actually work.
wit Mach3, I realized a very weird behavior, as long as I connect my physical motor pins on pin 4 & 5 pair, 6 & 7 pair & 8 & 9 pair, the table will move the y car when I press left & right arrow key, the twin motors will move when I press up & down motor & Mach3 disregard what pin assignment, changing the motor pin pair does not change this.... Super weird


Anyway, I am now certain that my drivers will experience meltdown if I don't improve the panel cooling...

Last edited by KenC; Sun 07 October 2012 at 01:48..
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  #81  
Old Sun 07 October 2012, 04:27
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Interesting.
On #28 I had a similar failure. But it wasn't heat. Static electricity (I assume) caused the 1st driver port to fail. That machine now has the drivers for the x axis sharing the step output and I flipped the wiring at the driver to keep rotation of the motor correct. Y and z are still solo.

It was the oddest of failures.
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  #82  
Old Sun 07 October 2012, 04:33
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Another problem cropped up, I tried to do some motor tuning, more weird thing reveals... I'm using mod.1 24t pinion, direct drive, 10 microstepping, "step per" in theory is 200x10/(24xpi)=26.525 but in this scenario, Mach take 106 which is 4 times the theritical "step per"...

I'm beginning to suspect my intelligence...

Last edited by KenC; Sun 07 October 2012 at 04:37..
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  #83  
Old Sun 07 October 2012, 04:37
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
I am sure you reloaded Mach. I know this will sound odd, but did you physical move the slider in the motor tuning after entering the number. I found that when I reset the steps field that I had to move the velocity slider for the correct number to take. After that Mach failure
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  #84  
Old Sun 07 October 2012, 04:39
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
I didn't touch the slider.... a drowning man will move any slider...
Edit,
Update, moved the slider, but still it moved only 1/4 of what it supposed to. eg. g0 x100 yield 25mm movement on x axis.

Last edited by KenC; Sun 07 October 2012 at 04:43..
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  #85  
Old Sun 07 October 2012, 04:42
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Try it. Its the weirdest darn thing if it works. Just have to move a tick. I personally think its a buffer issue in Mach , and it is somehow linked to that algorithm on that setting.
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  #86  
Old Sun 07 October 2012, 05:45
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
ken check your email
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  #87  
Old Sun 07 October 2012, 05:47
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Danilo, Max CL mode is checked. If it is unchecked, the motors won't move...

Sean, the slider trick didn't work either...

I'm seriously considering pulling the LPT cable to my running router MM which runs on EMC2 A.K.A LinuxCNC....
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  #88  
Old Sun 07 October 2012, 06:01
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
It should not be that way,
The native mode for Mach 3 is to provide Step & Direction signals to the stepper controllers for each axis - 2 signals per axis. Maxnc uses "wave drive", presumably for some sort of half or quarter stepping

Your bob might need some sort of "enable" signal beside the charge pump and when in maxnc mode when the pins are automaticaly set it might get it and that is why it works, I had one and just set output in pins&ports enable1 to appropriate lpt pin.


also check units mm/inch , I once had that and after re-tune the motors again.
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  #89  
Old Sun 07 October 2012, 07:34
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
I'm completely overwhelm by this MaxCL thingy... I have no idea what that is & what it does...

Unit were checked many times I'm mm guy hence no in...
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  #90  
Old Mon 08 October 2012, 00:10
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Update again...

Ran a thorough test on the BOB, all the output pins are working properly.

Thanks to Anil's who walked me through the diagnostic test on the BOB

Now most possible problems are eliminate, & it point straight at Mach3...

Posted on Mach support forum & lets wait & see...

Last edited by KenC; Mon 08 October 2012 at 00:26..
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