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  #31  
Old Fri 09 October 2009, 01:36
Nikonauts
Just call me: Nikonauts
 
Johore
Malaysia
i found one in Taman Desa Cemerlang, Ulu Tiram. A small manufacturing sub-contractor operating in SMI industrial lot.

they quoted MYR1k, inclusive of material.

I'm somewhere right in the middle between Kulai, Kota Tinggi and Kluang.

what's the price in Klang Valley?

about the group, just curious, does the members also "play" ham radio? someone used to tell me that a guy in their radio group also interested in mechmate.

Last edited by Nikonauts; Fri 09 October 2009 at 01:39..
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  #32  
Old Fri 09 October 2009, 06:25
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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Once I found a cheap provider in Ecuador said he could do the work, I was skeptical and so I ordered 1 meter length just to see the quality but it was horrible!!! My advice, make sure you see some work first if you find something local from a small factory!

Ries
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  #33  
Old Sat 10 October 2009, 08:17
Nikonauts
Just call me: Nikonauts
 
Johore
Malaysia
i meant for the laser cutting service...
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  #34  
Old Sat 10 October 2009, 09:36
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Its about that, mine is just under RM 1K for the laser parts, inclusive of material. I bet we get the lowest laser part here in Malaysia.
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  #35  
Old Sat 10 October 2009, 10:10
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
I am building this alone here, what group are you referring to?
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  #36  
Old Fri 13 November 2009, 08:03
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Hi,
After a long treacherous wait, I finally have the happy place to work on me MM.
Here are the stuff which I collected over the months.

The Laser bits. The cutting & bending were done separately. I wasn't sure about the Z-spider bend so I will have them bend after I'm absolutely clear of what to do.
DSC00302.jpg

Affordable Chinese Drivers & PDMX-122 BOB
DSC00308.jpg

The muscle guy. featuring 86HS9801
DSC00309.jpg

The machined parts & the Gauge Plate, we call it PG plate here in our friendly local supplier
DSC00311.jpg

The affordable Chinese 2.2kW tool head & his VFD kimosabe
DSC00314.jpg

These are just a portion of the whole "collection" thus far, more will prevail as the build goes along.

Last edited by KenC; Fri 13 November 2009 at 08:19..
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  #37  
Old Fri 13 November 2009, 20:30
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Need help with Atom Mobo & EMC2 installation

I've choosen EMC2, not that I'm cheap, as Mech3 is really really within my means. By using Linux OS I can eliminate 99.9% of the virus risk.

From my understanding, building an Atom & install the EMC2 is a simple no-brainer that is if everything goes well... But I'm having a hard time trying to get the system running for the past 2 days...

1st-ly, I couldn't get the Atom mobo to function...

The 1st error massages I get upon firing up the board:-
"The firmware has detected that a Cmos battery failure occurred"
So I replace a new battery but still didn't get rid of this error massage on the next boot up...

After this, I get another error massage
"The firm ware has detected that a CMOS Checksum Error occured."


DSC00313.jpg
The free PC which I got earlier are not suitable, instead I bought a 15" LCD monitor for ~US50, salvage the keyboard, mouse, CD-drive & HDD (IDE drive) from the old PC. The pin of the old PSU wasn't suitable; I bought a ~US10 from a local used PC stall. The MOBO is new D945GCLF - 230N.
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  #38  
Old Fri 13 November 2009, 22:27
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
A checksum error after the battery replacement isn't unusual. If there is a bios 'reset to defaults' option, this is a good time to hit it. Hopefully after that, you can reboot, set your bios settings, and proceed with an OS install.
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  #39  
Old Sat 14 November 2009, 04:48
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Thanks Bradm for the pointers.

Is it normal to power up the board with the battery detached? I couldn't power up anything with the battery inplace. Instead, I removed the battery, turn on the power and frantically hit the F2 button while inserting the battery into the slot.

I then have setup menu appeared & I loaded the "optimal default" saved & exit.

with the flash disc in the CD drive, I got the Ubuntu main menu but after I hit the "install in Hard Disc" or "Install without affecting the hard disc" I get this

udevd-event[1288]:run_program: '/sbin/modprobe' abnormal exit

BusyBox v1.1.3 (Debian 1:1.1.3-5ubuntu12) Built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

(initramfs) _blinking cursor

What could had possibly went wrong???
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  #40  
Old Sat 14 November 2009, 05:17
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenC View Post
Thanks Bradm for the pointers.

Is it normal to power up the board with the battery detached? I couldn't power up anything with the battery inplace. Instead, I removed the battery, turn on the power and frantically hit the F2 button while inserting the battery into the slot.

I then have setup menu appeared & I loaded the "optimal default" saved & exit.

with the flash disc in the CD drive, I got the Ubuntu main menu but after I hit the "install in Hard Disc" or "Install without affecting the hard disc" I get this

udevd-event[1288]:run_program: '/sbin/modprobe' abnormal exit

BusyBox v1.1.3 (Debian 1:1.1.3-5ubuntu12) Built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

(initramfs) _blinking cursor

What could had possibly went wrong???

Sounds like that Linux is having a hard time understanding your hardware.
In this case I would get a other distro, and see if that can boot up there system one way or the other. If that works, then back to ubuntu, or stick to that distro.

'/sbin/modprobe' abnormal exit means that modprobe crashes 'due to some reason', so it cannot detects your hardware and load the correct drivers. Try removing and replace (video card, HD, other cards??) as much hardware as possible (except RAM and CDROM) and see if it passes the modprobe stage, even try disabling some specific hardware liek USB ports in bios if any, then slowly add hardware again and see where it breaks.


it could also be RAM that's not working, try using : memtest.


Ries
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  #41  
Old Sat 14 November 2009, 08:26
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Thanks for the reply & its great help!

Now I know the problem is not with the OS.

A re-cap, The battery & power up issue had been solved, I had mistakenly connected the power up switch to the RESET pins... Now all power up nicely. One down.. more to go...

I think there are only 2 "external item", the dimm DDR2 RAM & ATA ribbon cable. Will try to find a spare in my junk pile.

It's 11pm local time, time to call it a day.

I had never encounter problems of this magnitude before this but then again, the last PC I build was in 2001... things are soo different now...

I actually enjoy this frustrating process ... I think I need to see a shrink ...
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  #42  
Old Sat 14 November 2009, 21:48
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Bought a new RAM, found a new unused IDE cable, replaced them & still the error persist... I'll return the ATOM mobo to the supplier & see what they have to say about it.

OT, RAM price is escalating, only a few months ago, I bought a 2Gb DDR2 RAM for RM85, today its RM150...
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  #43  
Old Mon 16 November 2009, 01:15
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Sent the Mobo back to the shop & thet'll get back to me tomorrow.

I decided to get on with the kitchen table project this morning.

I'd been tinkering around with the control panel for a while now, I'd decided to have the spindle & VFD on separate power line & use only a external magnetic coil contactor for it.

The control panel will house the mobo, mobo PSU, BOB, the motor drivers & the driver's power supply.

I will use a EI core 48Vac 500VA tranny; Many regard EI core tranny is "less efficient" due to its high magnetic losses but because of this, they are capable of handling high surge thanks to its "magnetic deficiency" which acts as a "buffer" for this application. Secondly, they are easily available & I can have them custom wound locally if I want, and they cost the same as off the shelve units.

The Electrical circuit will be simple, the main will come off the wall to a contactor which will tie to the E-stop buttons & the on/off button. From the contactor, I'll tap the line for the fan, the motor tranny & the mobo's PSU.

I'm torn between the following layout. Please comment.

Choice 1
Layout choice 1.jpg

Choice 2
Layout Choice 2.jpg

Choice 3
Layout choice 3.jpg

Choice 4
Layout choice 4.jpg

Choice 5
Layout choice 5.jpg
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  #44  
Old Mon 16 November 2009, 07:51
javeria
Just call me: Irfan #33
 
Bangalore
India
I vote for choice 3 - be careful with that Mobo- might blow again with all the wires inside, prefer to house it in its own cabinet.

mine went that way and there is no warranty for a burnt out one!
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  #45  
Old Mon 16 November 2009, 08:10
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
I'd try to keep the motherboard as far from the drives as possible, so something like choice 2 or 3, but with the motherboard mounted low down on the back of the door.

I think that mounting items so that there is a single layer when the door is open will make any troubleshooting easier. So better to mount to the back of the door than to have components behind each other.
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  #46  
Old Mon 16 November 2009, 08:49
Claudiu
Just call me: Claus #43
 
Arad
Romania
Hello Ken,

Nice going.

Why do want to have the mobo inside?
A mobo should work in a shielded ambience. Isn`t there danger of having
interference from the torroids or other sources?
I guess a mobo is even more sensitive than the BOB, and Bob should also parked away from any source of resonance.
Do you also plan to have a HHD inside?

Greetings Claudiu
...just a thought of Risk management.
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  #47  
Old Mon 16 November 2009, 22:07
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Thanks you for the comments & sharing your experience, seems that all are concern about having things too closely packed...

Claus,
Thank you for reminding the risk management part.

There are 2 sets of reasons why I wish to have the mobo in the panel

Technically,
1) I wish to eliminate the long printer cable running across the room & risk data corruption, I may sound paranoid...
2) I also feel that the BOB is best install in the external PC (if one is used) as it's purpose is to beef-up the parallel port signal, hence reduce the tendency of data corruption.) Since I wish to eliminate cable (this time the E-stop, proxy switch.. etc cables.) It make sense to me to place the mobo inside the panel.

Non-technical reasons
Choosing a casing... aesthetic, size, color, location... dries up too much brain juice ... and adds on to the cost...

I don't use toroid, but EI core tranny for its better tolerance to withstand surge demand thanks to its poorer magnetic property, and yes, they are noisier then toroids.

Interference from other components? I really don't know. I learn from building audio amp that, air space is the best cure, if you give 25~50mm space between components, the noise will be hardly noticeable... but I really don't know how they will behave in the MM panel.

I am going to use shielded cables within the panel, I have some nice microphone wires in hand, I recon they will do a great job as signal cables.
Microphone wire 1.jpg

Found some thick gauge shielded Pro-Audio cables in local pro-audio shops which I can use for the motor cable.

Going about proper wire layout practice is vital too, I won't be using cable trunking as this will force the cables to run parallel to each other (which is a bad practice). I'll do my best to avoid running power cables parallel to signal cable when possible.

Careful with ground loop is important too.

If all else fail, my plan B for noise control is the put up thin steel plates or Faraday cage around the mobo as noise shield.

Now back to more "interior design".
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  #48  
Old Mon 16 November 2009, 23:07
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
I actually like Choice 5, the air circulation is nice. If I bring the mobo up, then it will be as far as it can get from the tranny but some how it doesn't look right...

Choice 2 will see the mobo next to the tranny.

In Choice 3, the mobo on the cover will be in closed proximity to whatever that is in the box, about 30~40mm.

Taking Brad, Irfan #33 & Brad's comments & advises into considerations 2 new layout were conceded and they do look right to my eye.

Choice 6
Layout choice 6.jpg
The mobo will stack on top of its PSU and the BOB will be in vertical position mounted perpendicular to the mobo. The PSU fan fan blow to the right.

The supplier of the drivers said the drivers are shielded, so noise is not a problem. But need to consider cooling of the heat sink. Hence, I orientate the fins vertically for best natural convection, if the fan fails (risk management )

The AC fan and the tranny are at the bottom, this will be the noisy section of the panel. The drivers will partially shield the mobo from the dirty section

The free space is reserve for future A-axis driver and/or extra BOB if it ever happens.

The contactor on the cover.

Choice 7
Layout choice 7.jpg
Same concept applies.

The 2 drivers on the left are the X-axis drivers, Y in the middle & Z on the far right.

I can mount the contactor on the cover & reserve the space for future A-axis driver.

The X & Y drivers are on the fan blow path, the mobo PSU fan will blow on the Z driver then the tranny after it.

Please comment freely.

Thanks in advance.

Regards

Ken
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  #49  
Old Tue 17 November 2009, 00:33
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Claus ask about the HDD,

No HDD & CD drive, I will be using a 8Gb thumb-drive for boot up & storage. in an attempt to reduce moving parts in the panel & keep it physically simple.

Cheers

Ken
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  #50  
Old Tue 17 November 2009, 03:06
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Watch out for the life of that thumb-drive - I have had a couple that wore out with repeated use. (Or maybe I left them too near to a strong magnet)
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  #51  
Old Tue 17 November 2009, 03:19
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Hi Gerald, I can't thank you enough for this beautiful design.

I'll keep the thumbdrive in cosy and airy location all by itself using an extention connection for mounting on the cover.

Regards

Ken
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  #52  
Old Tue 17 November 2009, 22:50
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Visited the friendly computer shop & was told the mobo is fried for good, its still under warrenty but they are out of stock for the moment, will need a week for the replacement to arrive. As I'm too anxious to get on with the project, I bought a D945GCLF2 which is a dual core upgrade. & a matching PSU (this uses a 2x12 power socket & the previous one uses a 2x10 power socket.) RM290 mobo & RM35 PSU. total damage ~US$92.

Now I have the excuse to build that download station which I've been dreaming about.

Once back to me work bench, connected everything up & she boot up flawlessly.

The new test jig
Atom 2 core test jig.jpg

Latency test 15801ns its good
EMC2 latency test.jpg

The EMC2 screen shot
EMC2 screenshot.jpg

Now I can proceed with the control panel
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  #53  
Old Thu 19 November 2009, 02:59
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
My initial size is for 2440mm x 1220mm.

There had some new development progress on the A-axis indexer. I know I couldn't resist the "upgrade" in the future, so I cater for that extra in this MM build.

Table size consideration-Model.jpg

Have not order the steel yet which is a good thing

I do have enough racks & would think the extra steel cost justify.

I'll have the 0,0 set to the top left corner. there won't be any cross beam outside of the board area and I will have good acces loading raw board onto the work area.

The leg will be at the end of the last cross-beam which the board is mounted. Hope this will help with rigidity.

Please comment freely.

Thanks in advance

Ken
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  #54  
Old Tue 24 November 2009, 03:03
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
My progress is pathetically slow...

Apparently, my electronics & control know-how is far worst then I anticipated...

I've been reading the PMDX-122 manual over & over again and honestly, I'm still quite lost...

In between reading I did some drilling, cut some acrylic sheets, tapped some holes and played with jigsaw puzzle... And this is what I came up with
Control Panel Inside view.jpg

I experiment with double sided tape. The PSU & the DIN rail are mounted with the tape on the panel, I am please with the result. Will tape the CPU + BOB assembly & the transformers once they are completed.

I tried spiral tap bits on the acrylic plate, they are fast! Just has to be careful while retracting the bit or risk damage thread. The spiral point taps are commonly know as "normal machine tap" in our local hardware stores, about USD4~5 per piece from India.

ABB contactors, will use one eventually.

PMDX-122 will have her power from the PSU, 12V from the free disc drive plug.

If heat & ventilation is a problem, I can run one or more fans tapping power form the other free disc drive plug.

The front view... nothing to see actually, 2 push button & an indicator light all 240Vac. Dia 22 holes, USD3~4 per piece. and I just walk-in any electrical hardware store & they will spoil me with an array of choices.
Control panel front view.jpg

The internal cramp space... I bet on good shielding of the PSU & the drivers... hope this works
Control panel Inside with door closed.jpg

Last edited by KenC; Tue 24 November 2009 at 03:18..
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  #55  
Old Tue 24 November 2009, 04:10
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
An addition to my Mobo issue, the computer guy returned the old D945GCLF to me & said its ok. I felt defeated with the outcome...

With a stroke of luck, I learn that the RTI of the Ubuntu 8.04 isn't compatible with the BIOS installed on board, they are 2 remedies
1) Disable the LAN through BIOS setting
2) install a updated BIOS. This is available for down load from Intel site.

I disabled the LAN & installed EMC2 without a glitch. I ran the Latency test for approximately 20 minute with "torture treatment", i.e. copy huge files, played video, moving windows.... etc etc. I got Max jitter 14,952ns
Screenshot-EMC2 - HAL Latency Test.png

Then I left it "burn-in" for 6 hours with the Latency test program alone, I got 16,313ns.
Screenshot-EMC2 - HAL Latency Test-1.png

16,313ns is still a great result. For the sake of knowing, does anyone has an explaination for this?

Last edited by KenC; Tue 24 November 2009 at 04:13..
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  #56  
Old Tue 24 November 2009, 05:01
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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Ken,

out of curiosity, does EMC2 not need a RTOS? (Real Time Operating System) or can it use any 'off teh shelf Linux' then there shouldn't be real problem like jitter.

Ries
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  #57  
Old Tue 24 November 2009, 05:45
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
I don't quite understand your question. I use the EMC2 Live-Disc which also includes the Ubuntu 8.04 LTS & other stuff.
This is my 1st Linux endeavor. From my limited understanding, EMC2 operate in real-time kernel, the problem here is the RTi version is not compatible with the one pre-load on the D945GCLF board,get an upgraded BIOS version and problem solved. No such problem with other board such as D945GCLF2. or if you run the Ubuntu 8.04.1 & 8.04.2. So, no an issue now that you know the solution...

I am also confused, please clarify for me, jitter happens when the hardware could not catch up with the software?? So logically, jitter is due to hardware? Software have to slowdown to cater the hardware?

My latency test shows 16,313ns, this gives a kernel speed of 61.3kHz w/o jitter (1/Max jitter, I hope I understand correctly) which is darn good for most application. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Just an addition, running the OS off thumbdrive "feels" slower, but the latency test said otherwise... mind boggling...

Last edited by KenC; Tue 24 November 2009 at 06:02.. Reason: correcting English, trying to make sense
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  #58  
Old Tue 24 November 2009, 07:14
riesvantwisk
Just call me: Ries #46
 
Quito
Ecuador
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Ken,

usually such jitter happens because a other process (kernel driver, other program) sits in the way of the active process. The active process would be the program that creates the pulses.

So Jitter happens not because the hardware is not fast enough, but because other programs take to much CPU or cannot get interrupted at that point and thus creates jitter on IO.

[Just an addition, running the OS off thumbdrive "feels" slower, but the latency test said otherwise... mind boggling...] Depends on what feels slow, and I assume the UI here, even modern Operating Systems don't understand the best way to access a thumbdrive, it's not because nothing rotates around which makes it faster.

Let me explain, Operating systems currently assume the 'disk' has a platter and things rotate and so drivers are optimized for this. thumbdrives do have very different access statistics, however they use the same 'language' so the software drivers that access a normal harddisk can also access a thumbdrives. The problem is that thumbdrives do have different access statistics and as such it can slow down a computer, usually the GUI, loading software, writing batched operations etc... (deleting from a thumbdrives works totally different then from a HD).

Anyways.. I am curious to know about EMC2, and although I am a software engineer, I do wonder how well EMC2 integrates and talks to the software I have on my mac and PC.

Ries
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  #59  
Old Tue 24 November 2009, 09:38
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
EMC2 requires a linux kernel with real time extensions. This kernel is available as a pre-packaged option in the Ubuntu distribution. The EMC-Live disk is an Ubuntu release with the real time kernel and the EMC2 software packages preloaded. For all intensive purposes it's simply an Ubuntu system and acts as such, although it's performance on other tasks is compromised while EMC2 is running, as it should be.

The real time aspects of the kernel can be enabled and disabled; when you start EMC2, the system switches to real time mode. However, there are certain hardware / firmware aspects of PCs that limit how perfect a real time system can be. As one example, there are PCI cards that can perform operations against main memory directly, and in so doing, cause contention with the CPU. This can cause the occasional jitter, which is why measuring it and configuring for the worst case is important.

Note that a system explicitly designed for real time operations would tend to not use hardware (network cards, fancy display cards, etc) that exhibit these issues. However, due to their low performance, these tend to be low volume specialty items, and are more expensive than their mainstream counterparts.
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  #60  
Old Wed 25 November 2009, 09:25
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Ries, Brad, thanks for you explanation. really help me to visualize the scenario better.

Ries, you are right, the UI seems slower & programs upload feels slower. just noticably slow, I belive if I time them, I won't find much.
I am afraid I won't be much use with EMC2, I had just decided to act like an application engineer the to pretend like a software engineer

Brad, are you suggesting I strip the system down even further? I'd disabled the LAN & I intended to Disable more functions but am not sure which. Could you kindly point me the right way?
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