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  #31  
Old Wed 18 August 2010, 09:18
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Source for Complete V-Roller bearing sets (with eccentrics) @ $good-price$

or

Make your own V-Rollers if too expensive in your country
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  #32  
Old Wed 18 August 2010, 10:05
Mountaincraft
Just call me: Mark
 
Shingletown, Ca.
United States of America
Hi Gerald,
Thanks, that helps some.. I don't have the means to make my own, but the other link you posted is a step in the right direction.. Does his wheel/eccentric sets include bearings?

Can you answer my question about how long pieces are cut in machines with too short of an X travel for the work? I'm curious how this is done.. I assume it can be, as I have seen people use CNC routers to cut guitar bodies, so they must have a way of realigning the work piece when turned over to do the other side...

Thanks again,
Mark
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  #33  
Old Wed 18 August 2010, 10:34
Mountaincraft
Just call me: Mark
 
Shingletown, Ca.
United States of America
NEMA numbers as they regard to steppers, refer to a standardized bolt hole pattern correct?

What NEMA stepper number is the MechMate spec'd to?

Thanks,
Mark
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  #34  
Old Wed 18 August 2010, 10:38
PEU
Just call me: Pablo
 
Buenos Aires
Argentina
nema 34
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  #35  
Old Wed 18 August 2010, 10:44
Mountaincraft
Just call me: Mark
 
Shingletown, Ca.
United States of America
Thanks,
I didn't see it anywhere on the plans, but might have missed it if it's there...
Mark
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  #36  
Old Wed 18 August 2010, 11:26
PEU
Just call me: Pablo
 
Buenos Aires
Argentina
there is a whole subforum about motors: http://www.mechmate.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26
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  #37  
Old Wed 18 August 2010, 15:42
Mountaincraft
Just call me: Mark
 
Shingletown, Ca.
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by PEU View Post
there is a whole subforum about motors: http://www.mechmate.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26
Yeah I know.. and I'll visit it soon when it comes time to actually get into the nitty gritty.. Especially seeing as it appears I'll be buying a lot of things for my MechMate build out of order (ie motors and electronics before the base is even built)... I just didn't see the point in starting a new thread and rehashing everything I've already said here in another forum to answer a quick question......

But point taken...

Thanks,
Mark
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  #38  
Old Wed 18 August 2010, 15:54
Mountaincraft
Just call me: Mark
 
Shingletown, Ca.
United States of America
My current thoughts are considering the idea of building the complete steel frame for the mechmate base (using 2x2 square tubing as in the student build) and then just bolting some nice straight hem fir 2 x 8s to the inside of the longitudinal rails, and then building the solsylva router system on that, modifying it to use drivers, steppers, racks/pinions, and power supply sized for the final mechmate build.. That will even allow me to go ahead and mount the mechmate rails and stop blocks and what not while the solsylva unit is still in use.. I can also fashion the flexible cable trays and all that on the solsylva build with the mechmate in mind.. I would then be able to build the gantry and Z carriage off the table while using the solsylva build.. Down time for the transistion should be minimal, as well as wasted parts....

Still sorting out the plan of attack, but this approach is starting to make the most sense...

And yet another 'totally unique' mechmate build will be chronicled on this forum.. Sort of like a butterfly.. metamorphing from a clumsy solsylva caterpiller to a beautiful mechmate monarch....

$240 worth of 2x2 square tube (3pcs x 20'), a new tank of gas for the welder, and I'm off like a turd of herdles...

Last edited by Mountaincraft; Wed 18 August 2010 at 16:00..
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  #39  
Old Sat 21 August 2010, 09:54
Scott Hightower
Just call me: Scott
 
Georgia
United States of America
slat design

Just a thought on the slats for your plasma table.

On my cutting table we use thin slats and place them in alternating cradles when we install them. This forms somewhat of an "S" shape when looking at the slat from above. The bend in the slat improves the rigidity. Over the long haul you will save a ton of money in slat replacement.

Scott

Last edited by Gerald D; Sat 21 August 2010 at 12:22.. Reason: signature line, with links, deleted
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  #40  
Old Sat 21 August 2010, 13:49
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Mark,
The students at UNCSA came up with a great slat table solution. Small sections of 2" c channel welded ontop of the cross bearers that allow for 18 ga strips to be placed between. This allows for any one slat to be replaced as needed.

Sean
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  #41  
Old Sun 22 August 2010, 06:03
Mountaincraft
Just call me: Mark
 
Shingletown, Ca.
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hightower View Post
Just a thought on the slats for your plasma table.

On my cutting table we use thin slats and place them in alternating cradles when we install them. This forms somewhat of an "S" shape when looking at the slat from above. The bend in the slat improves the rigidity. Over the long haul you will save a ton of money in slat replacement.

Scott

I think this is a situation where a picture would be worth a thousand words..

Mark
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  #42  
Old Sun 22 August 2010, 06:21
Mountaincraft
Just call me: Mark
 
Shingletown, Ca.
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by smreish View Post
Mark,
The students at UNCSA came up with a great slat table solution. Small sections of 2" c channel welded ontop of the cross bearers that allow for 18 ga strips to be placed between. This allows for any one slat to be replaced as needed.

Sean
Did you see my 3D mockups above? Sounds like a similar design to what I showed... But again, perhaps a picture would prove otherwise... I'm not really underatanding the difference at this point..

On another note, I was culling through all that 6" C channel I have yesterday... And I grabbed a 15' long piece and picked up one end, I was surprised how much it flexed under it's own weight.. I now understand the reason that such heavy steel is called out in the plans.. Granted, it was oriented 90 degrees from what it would be when used (the C was pointing up), but still....

At this point, I'm really leaning towards waiting and getting some heavy rectangular tubing.. 2x3 x1/4 or better....

So far, my plan is to build a base table that will handle 4x10 stock to eventually be the base table for a MechMate plasma.. Then bolt 2x8 hem fir facia to the inside of the rails and build a solsylva router system on top of them, but modified to use the steppers, controllers, and power supply for the MechMate...

Use the solsylva router to start producing product, as well as cutting precision plywood jigs for welding up the MechMate gantry... Then start building the MechMate router table (4 x 8), eventually using the steppers, rack, and pinion, etc. out of the solsylva gantry in the router table...

Question about the UNCSA build... you guys used a second Z slide foor the purpose of engraving and drilling... What would be required to do 'milling' with this second Z slide? Can 'water' be used as a coolant for cutting or does it have to be oil? The reason I'm asking, is because if water can be used, then that makes things easy with a water bath under the slat bed, which can be used for both plasma cutting and milling?

What kind of cutter motor would be required for milling, and if water can not be used but cutting oil is instead required, what kind of methods can be used for this without major hassle?

I'm asking all this so that I can decide what options I want to plan for in the base table before I build, should I decide down the road to include such features into it...

I'm obviously going to be at this for a 'long' time..... gonna try and get it right...

Thanks,
Mark

Last edited by Mountaincraft; Sun 22 August 2010 at 06:27..
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  #43  
Old Sun 22 August 2010, 14:14
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Milling is limited to aluminum sheet stock. Cut dry or lightly atomized water borne coolant with the appropriate onsrud bit.

Plasma spark were arrested via a spark blanket below slotted table and special dust collection for welding at end of table and high CFM overhead hood/vent for vapor.

If your going to use tube, I would suggest 2x2 and 2x4, 2x4 is required for the gantry, so it's a required purchase.

Sean
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  #44  
Old Thu 26 August 2010, 15:39
Mountaincraft
Just call me: Mark
 
Shingletown, Ca.
United States of America
Base Table Dimensions

On Plan Page 10 10 300 W, it says that the dimension from outside edge of the longitudinal X beam to the outside edge of the opposite longitudinal X beam is to be Y + 17"... I was under the assumption that the plans were drawn showing a 4' x 8' table... 48" + 17"= 65"... Yet, on plan page 10 10 123 D, it lists the dimension of the support board as 1830mm (73.2").. Which is wider than the Y + 17" number specified on Plan Page 10 10 300 W... To make things a little more confusing (to me), Plan Page 10 10 300 D, shows exposed cross support beams on each side of the support board, making me think that it's actually 10-12" wider than the support board, meaning 85" or so.. considerably more than the Y + 17" formula..

Can someone please tell me what I'm misunderstanding here?.. I'm trying to get an exact dimension from outside of X beam to outside of X beam..

On a related note, does the Y + 17" number include a couple extra inches beyond the 48", or do I need to add that in as well?

I am shooting for a table to handle 4' x 10' sheet material....

BTW, since the support board is considerably larger than a 48 x 96 (or even a 5' x 9') sheet of MDF, how do most people orient the 'pieces' to make up the large support board bed?.. I'm guessing 3-4 pieces, 73" x "as needed" to hit the cross beams?

Thanks much,
Mark

Last edited by Mountaincraft; Thu 26 August 2010 at 15:55..
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  #45  
Old Thu 26 August 2010, 16:24
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Mark
The quick answer before I get to my printed plans is it's okay, I'll try to explain. First, the MM#1 which the plans are based on were designed for the EU / SA standard board sizes which are in Meters....thus not even close to a US standard. The plans, depending on the detail, don't necessarily refer to one machine build, but a "style of building" for many options of the machine. Thus, different spoil board sizes, z stroke, rail type, etc. If your spoil board is to cut is 4' x 10', then the hole layout you choose will be EQ spacing based on that size - discard what you see in the MM plans for hole-to-hole measurements. Just adhere to the spacing minimums as a guide.

1) the plans allow for run off area around perimeter of the cutting area. Thus, is your machine is designed to cut 4' x 10', NET, then your actually cutting area will be about 52" x 124" gross. This is to accommodate large diameter cutters.
2) The x dimension from outside of x to outside of x is handled in the y+17 formula. The cross bearers that connect the C channel are actually SMALLER to allow for welding to the main long beams. IF your building a bolt together table make sure you pay attention to the set back requirement or you will be to narrow. DETAIL on 10 10 302
3) If your making a 48 x 120 cutting area, then you should be able to get a piece of MDF easily that is 5' x 10' x 1" (which is normal) or get 3 sheets of 4' x 8' x 3/4" and stagger the seams and laminate the layers together.

Hope this helps.

Sean

Last edited by smreish; Thu 26 August 2010 at 16:26..
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  #46  
Old Thu 26 August 2010, 17:09
Mountaincraft
Just call me: Mark
 
Shingletown, Ca.
United States of America
Okay Sean, that does help....

So the Y dimension I want is 65" outside of beam to outside of beam, and this is inclusive of 4" 'extra'? And the X dimension length length of each longitudinal beam is 120" + 24" (600mm) or 144" (12')?

A couple questions in regards to 'your' build..

1) You used 2"x4" x 1/4" rectangular steel tube, right? Did you 'drill and tap' your V rail attachment bolts into the 1/4" rectangular tubing, or did you drill access holes and use nuts to back up the mounting bolts?

2) If you were building the table for 'plasma' only, (ie no second Z slide for milling/drilling/routing), would you have built the table so heavy duty, or would you have felt comfortable using lighter or smaller or less steel?

3) Did you guys mount a router motor to that second slide, or a spindle? What HP?

Thanks,
Mark
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  #47  
Old Thu 26 August 2010, 17:15
Mountaincraft
Just call me: Mark
 
Shingletown, Ca.
United States of America
Oh, and before I forget..

4) what size material support slats did you use? How tall, and what gauge?

Thanks,
Mark
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  #48  
Old Fri 27 August 2010, 02:59
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
1) its in the plan.
2) season to your taste
3) you are only limited by your imagination
4) is in the plan & also season to taste.

Read x read x read = more reading
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  #49  
Old Fri 27 August 2010, 06:32
Mountaincraft
Just call me: Mark
 
Shingletown, Ca.
United States of America
Hi Ken,

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenC View Post
1) its in the plan.
2) season to your taste
3) you are only limited by your imagination
4) is in the plan & also season to taste.

1) Actually it's not... The plan calls out for 7" C channel, 1/2 inch thick.. Seans build used 2x4 quarter inch thick rectangular tube.. I would be hard pressed to find out how 'Sean' and the class mounted the V rails to their rectangular tubing by looking to the plans detail of mounting the rails to C channel.. would I not.. Maybe 'your' plans magically update themselves to reflect the modifications Seans class made during their build.. But I don't have such 'magic plans'...

2)I plan to, but I was asking how Sean and the other students "seasoned to 'their' taste"..

3) Well, actually, I am also limited by money, time, energy, and the laws of physics, and at the moment information and the ignorance that lack thereof creates......

4)This is incorrect.. Nowhere in the plans are replaceable support slats dealt with.. Nor even the subject of a plasma table breached.. The plans deal solely with a Router table with an MDF support board... not replaceable steel slats turned on edge... If I were to 'only' look to the plans, and then mounted a torch on the beast, I would then find I had a $10K BBQ on my hands... That is before the plasma torch cut through the cross supports and the whole table imploded...

Quote:
Read x read x read = more reading
You have no idea how much I am doing just that....

Earlier, Sean offered to answer any questions I had about 'their' build.. and so I was taking him up on that... If he had already answered these questions somewhere else, I will happily go there and read them, but at this time, I do not know where they are located...

Thanks Ken ,
Mark
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  #50  
Old Fri 27 August 2010, 10:49
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Mark,
- 2x4 tube 3/16 or 1/4" wall - tapped all the holes. 5/16 UNC
- IF table was for plasma only would I make it so heavy? No, I would have used 2x2 sq tube 11 or 14 gauge and then used the "clamp strip" as in the plans for rail attachment for the x and y axis
- NOTE: heavy was also because the table moves around A LOT. Thus stiff enough to be moved via pallet jack or forklift. WE wanted to maintain stiffness as well.
- router on second axis Porter Cable 690 1.75HP
- Slats (this if from memory, but Cody set this up with 2" strips of 18gauge) It's close to that ....Can't honestly recall. Hopefully Cody or Jon and watching the forum)

Sean
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  #51  
Old Fri 27 August 2010, 16:48
Mountaincraft
Just call me: Mark
 
Shingletown, Ca.
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by smreish View Post
Mark,
- IF table was for plasma only would I make it so heavy? No, I would have used 2x2 sq tube 11 or 14 gauge and then used the "clamp strip" as in the plans for rail attachment for the x and y axis
You might have just saved me a 'ton' of money (and labor)... thanks!

Quote:
- NOTE: heavy was also because the table moves around A LOT. Thus stiff enough to be moved via pallet jack or forklift. WE wanted to maintain stiffness as well.
If you didn't have to move it around, but still used the router, would you still have built it as heavy? Or would you have gone with the lighter guage 2x2, or something in between?

Quote:
- router on second axis Porter Cable 690 1.75HP
That's just a standard contractors router.. I have three or four of those laying around...

I have another question, what size steppers did you use?

Thanks Sean, you're already making life easier for me...
Mark
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  #52  
Old Fri 27 August 2010, 19:46
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Om pk 296-7.2 for gantries. Z slides are kehling direct drive with 20t pinions

If using router all the time i would at least us 11 ga and stiffen the heck out of the spoil board and leg/frame area
To act more like a truss than a beam.

Look at brians build at the seattle rep. You see my point. He did a fine job of exactly this.
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  #53  
Old Thu 02 September 2010, 08:19
Mountaincraft
Just call me: Mark
 
Shingletown, Ca.
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by smreish View Post
Om pk 296-7.2 for gantries. Z slides are kehling direct drive with 20t pinions

If using router all the time i would at least us 11 ga and stiffen the heck out of the spoil board and leg/frame area
To act more like a truss than a beam.

Look at brians build at the seattle rep. You see my point. He did a fine job of exactly this.
At this point, I've decided to make the solsylva thing a totally separate build, and to build a mechmate dual purpose table based on the UNCSA mechmate... And then sometime down the road to build a monster sized Mechmaste router only table..

So I actually made my first 'purchase' yesterday towards the mechmate, as small as it is.. A couple hundred document protector sleeves and a notebook to put the mechmate plans in, so that I can take it with me to the metal supplier, fabricators, where necessary, etc. A teeny weeny step down the path..

I'm thinking of using 2x3 or 2x4 rectangular steel tubing for the main rails (1/4" thick), and 2x2 square tube (1/4" thinck) for the material bed, the rail supports, and what not.. Planning on building a large 'U' out of the 1/4" stuff and then supporting it all with 2x3 and 2x2 3/16" tubing...

The 2x4 makes more sense in that I'd already have the main rails for the gantry with the leftovers, but it also means a much heftier initial purchase, so I may use the 2x3, which would give me some great leftover pieces to make the table legs..

I'll mock up a 3D version before I buy and start cutting, but I'm hoping to buy one or both pieces for the rail after the first of Oct, maybe sooner..

For the solslyva, I'm going to largely just use scrap wood I have laying around, and not put a lot of time and effort into it, seeing as it is to just be temporary.. I plan to modify it to use the larger NEMA 34 steppers that will ultimately be used on this first mechmate.. but otherwise, just go as cheap as possible on it...

I want one of these mechmate bad babies... in the worst way... LOL

First order of business is to start cleaning out the shop to make room for it...

Last edited by Mountaincraft; Thu 02 September 2010 at 08:23..
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  #54  
Old Thu 02 September 2010, 09:53
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Mark, One thought is you could do the entire table and gantry from 2 x 2 tube and just double up the 2x2 to make it 4x2. Additionally, only buy the 2x2 x 1/4 wall for the tubes that will need tapped. Use a 11 ga tube everywhere else...including the lower tube of the y-gantry. Just a thought. 11 ga is much more affordable than the thick stuff - and easier to cut. Sean
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