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  #61  
Old Thu 07 April 2011, 15:11
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by javeria View Post
Humsafar! - nice - very nice! - thats URDU word, when I build my hovercraft - this is what I will name it to - hope the wife is ok with having a machine with that name. LOL
I can't take credit for the beautiful finish work. Humsafar (= "Travelling companion", right Javiera?) was finished by Sam Devlin in his shop.

It's a great design and is a very practical PNW boat. Not shown in the photos is the stainless crab-pot puller. It's an awesomely proper little workboat for which Sam is now offering kits.

Next is something completely different. We're in the process of cutting panels for a 48' power yacht. Seriously.


200 sheets of ply.

Last edited by lumberjack_jeff; Thu 07 April 2011 at 15:16..
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  #62  
Old Thu 07 April 2011, 16:39
HomeMadeCnc
Just call me: Tim
 
Calgary, Alberta
Canada
I do plan on building a boat, just not that size! Its nice to see someone using their machine to its full potential. Thanks for posting the pictures

Tim
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  #63  
Old Thu 07 April 2011, 23:27
jehayes
Just call me: Joe #53
 
Whidbey Island, Washington
United States of America
Jeff: Nice to see the output. Thanks for sharing.

Joe #53 on Whidbey
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  #64  
Old Mon 25 April 2011, 18:21
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
Public Service Announcement:

One of the purposes of this build was to test the lower cheapskate boundary.

What didn't work:
1) my geared steppers had .010 - .015 backlash. Too much for my application. I don't recommend them.
2) inexpensive routers.

The cheap solutions that did work:
1) EMC
2) an old, cheap computer
3) rewound MW transformer for a power supply
4) chinese stepper controllers (I'm sure that Geckos are better, but these do work)
5) MW oven for a control enclosure. I consider it a statement of principle.
6) PEX pipe for cable management. It treats the cables gently with very large radii bends. I don't think I'm going to upgrade to cable chains on this machine.
7) inexpensive wire. My cable is 26ga (IIRC) and has a foil shield.
8) bootstrapping. The first router clamp was a hose clamp affair. V2 was made of MDF. V3 was a marine plywood setup with an improved dust collection foot. V4 was aluminum. V5 is scrapyard aluminum holding a porter-cable 75182 router. (which was worth every penny).
9) Lumberyard table. Steel is better but this works okay.
10) No vacuum hold down. Screws work great. The first toolpath is an array of marks to locate holddown screws. It adds maybe 90 seconds to each cycle.
11) Sheetcam. It's perfect for what I do.
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  #65  
Old Tue 26 April 2011, 17:12
zumergido
Just call me: Fernando
 
BS AS
Argentina
hi jeff can you put more pictures of your machine? so will be easy to see your recomendations.
tnks
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  #66  
Old Tue 26 April 2011, 20:50
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
The overall appearance hasn't changed much since this post. Is there anything specifically that you'd like to see?
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  #67  
Old Wed 27 April 2011, 12:28
zumergido
Just call me: Fernando
 
BS AS
Argentina
photos of your "cheap solutions"
Pex pipe
transformer
wires
i get many of the ideas but there is people trying to reduce cost since some part are expensive but easly replasable with cheap ones.
since iam in this forum with this proyect i became aware that the MM is oversised on some parts .. in the good way. this machine will last almost for ever.
thnks jeff
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  #68  
Old Mon 02 May 2011, 14:53
LIBBIT
Just call me: John
 
Mt Roskill, Auckland
New Zealand
Hi Jeff,

Could u pls share the chinese stepper controllers details with us. I'm thinking in the same direction?

Tks, John
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  #69  
Old Thu 05 May 2011, 15:00
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
The controllers were these
http://www.driver-motor.com/ProductContent.aspx?ID=59

the documentation was poor but I eventually figured it out and they've been working reliably for nearly two years.

After using a 5x10 prt shopbot, I'm considering building another machine, but it will use more pro-grade stuff (read: Geckos)
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  #70  
Old Thu 05 May 2011, 15:09
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
Fernando,
The main feature of MechMate (imho) is "oversized". I recently had the need to use a shopbot, and although the spindle was nice, I found the structural rigidity was lacking and the software controller idiosyncratic.

Don't change anything about the car, z-axis or gantry.
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  #71  
Old Fri 06 May 2011, 00:02
MAC2009
Just call me: MAC
 
West ST Paul, MN
United States of America
torsion boxes

If I may drag you back to 2009 when you said immensely rigid torsion boxes, it implies they are hollow. Are they some sort of glue lam or four sides glued to gather? And while the Q's are flying the 4 X 6 beams, solid peaces or glued up,
are they stable in torsion and twist

MAC
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  #72  
Old Mon 09 May 2011, 17:58
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
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  #73  
Old Mon 09 May 2011, 18:04
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
Mac: The sides and ends are comprised of a 2x3 framework onto both sides of which is glued a continuous cementboard panel (Hardi-panel here in the US).

The solid air dried hemlock beams have proven to be stable enough, although kiln dried lumberyard beams would probably be less suitable than a glu-lam. In order of preference:
steel--> glu-lam beam--> air dried timber--> kiln dried timber

The air drying was important because the beams were acclimated to my shop for a year or two prior to use. The dual pieces of angle iron (the rail is bolted to a 3x3x1/4 angle which is in turn lag bolted to the beam) effectively lock in the warp present when it was initially built, and twist hasn't been apparent - although when you surface the spoilboard the net effect of any deflection is small - the material being cut will flex to conform.

Last edited by lumberjack_jeff; Mon 09 May 2011 at 18:12..
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  #74  
Old Tue 10 May 2011, 17:56
MAC2009
Just call me: MAC
 
West ST Paul, MN
United States of America
Jef thanks for the info. I do like your approach I'm going to look up Hardi-panel.

Your Boat is coming along very nicely!!!
I have a long time friend, we have spent the last four years refitting his 46' Morgan ketch.
I have been on and off the last two with medical. At any rate we are destine to leave about the 15th of July. I for about 2 - 3 months him and his family are planing for 18 mounts. Through the Grate Lakes and south to the Caribbean

It is a good thing this has a spell cker or I would be totally incontinent, even then I spell the wrong word right.

It is good to see work done on wooden boats. I in days past raced an old wood Lighting
here in Minnesota.


MAC
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  #75  
Old Wed 11 May 2011, 16:14
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
I wish it was my boat. I'm simply contracted to cut out all the panels for the boatbuilder.

... but it's still a good gig. We provide good value. His parts are all dead accurate, he doesn't have to dedicate all the shop space to lofting and cutting, he doesn't have to scarf the panels, the parts are delivered just in time and his project generates far less scrap.
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  #76  
Old Wed 11 May 2011, 16:40
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Cape Town (Western Cape)
South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to Alan_c
Jeff, how are you doing the scarfing, what is your setup?
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  #77  
Old Wed 11 May 2011, 18:49
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
There's a long thread on the topic here.

Our puzzle splices look a lot like the bottom example.
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  #78  
Old Thu 26 May 2011, 20:27
cornbinder23
Just call me: JT
 
Lynden, Wa.
United States of America
My first post here, just wanted to say great job to the builder, looks great and what I intend mine to be doing once its built. Sam Devlin is a great guy and very devoted to what he does, a true craftsman, I am flying over to brooklin maine to take his stitch and glue course June 10 I am really looking forward to it
I am a fellow NW guy, Washington

Has any one seen Sams new facility?

JT
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  #79  
Old Sun 29 May 2011, 12:56
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
Thanks JT, and welcome to the group!
Yes, Sam's new shop is really nice. He finally has room to build some of the spectacular projects he does. (That's his shop in the photo above).

Have a great time in Maine, and take photos!
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  #80  
Old Sun 29 May 2011, 17:02
cornbinder23
Just call me: JT
 
Lynden, Wa.
United States of America
Last I talked to Sam at the Seattle boat show he mentioned he had purchased a...ahem.....shopbot
Have you seen it and is it working for his purposes?
I am on the fence as to what I want to do, ie: purchase a pre-made router or build my own, I have a mill that I converted to cnc, and a lathe that I converted to cnc so I am fluent with the electronics and software, I am an engineer by trade read(glorified welder with an electrical license) so the fab work is definitely in my realm of expertise.
Which is why I am taking his stitch and glue course as it will force me to step out of my comfort zone ie: metalworking
I dont plan on building boats for a living but there are a few designs out there that I would like to build for myself (think small)
I have seen plenty of router designs and am active on the cnc zone forums
I really like the structure of the mechmate compared to other designs that I have seen, any advice?

JT
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  #81  
Old Sun 29 May 2011, 17:16
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
JT,

It all comes down to timing.
Both machines perform similar to each other. I feel that the MM is better performer all things considered since you may customize the deck, spoilboard, z-stroke, speed, dust control as your application needs.

If you need something today, to make money today - then a premade, or used machine may be the best value for you.

The cost for a standard BOT with 3.25HP spindle is about 13K plus shipping. The MM equiv will cost you almost exactly 1/2 that with a 3rd party spindle. Which makes the MM a heck-of-a-deal.

Regardless of choice, the goal is to make money.

The support group of MM'rs is here for you!

Sean
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  #82  
Old Sun 29 May 2011, 17:49
lumberjack_jeff
Just call me: Jeff #31
 
Montesano, WA
United States of America
Yes JT, Sam has a 5x10 shopbot. Because my MechMate is 4x8, I recently used it to cut out (the aptly named) 5x10 skiffs that you'll be assembling at the wooden boat school.

I really liked the spindle, but I found the shopbot to be less rigid than my machine (the tube steel gantry on the MechMate is better, as is the longer and wider wheelbase on the y-carriage, and the bigger v-rollers.), and I also found the controller to be idiosyncratic - for instance, I couldn't make sheetcam output useful SB code (although I'm sure it can be done).

It's a perfectly serviceable tool. If I didn't have a preexisting bias toward MechMate and EMC2, I'd probably have been perfectly happy with it.

Last edited by lumberjack_jeff; Sun 29 May 2011 at 17:58..
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  #83  
Old Sun 29 May 2011, 23:48
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Sean & Jeff,
That is a totally bias comments... I'll not say anything different myself

I do agree if you need a machine in a hurry to make money, buying a pre-made machine helps. With MM, the built is the easy part, there are just so much more learning curve to climb & fine-tuning.

Not forgetting that there are a heap of modification, upgrades & customisation choices to make AFTER the built. Just because you can.
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  #84  
Old Mon 30 May 2011, 10:35
cornbinder23
Just call me: JT
 
Lynden, Wa.
United States of America
Well I dont exactly need a machine right away as I am not really trying to make money with it although that would be a nice benefit, I originally got into cnc as just a means for another hobby, but I havent touched that hobby since I started with the cnc haha!
I am probably going to go with the mechmate as machine builds are my new favorite hobby!
And I got a new welder to try out
I have built a couple of stepper based systems, but would like to incorporate servos into this project, I have some of the electronic components already ie: power supply, geckos, smoothstepper, etc...
Looking forward to this epic build, wont be able to start for a little while (gotta sell some other toys to finance this one), but I will be sure to keep an updated build log here.

JT
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  #85  
Old Sun 05 June 2011, 14:36
servant74
Just call me: Jack
 
Nashville (Tennessee)
United States of America
Beams...

Jeff,

Thought I would check back on your build after watching you build it (through the forum). I did notice you found some goods and bads listed about your choices. Thanks for the updates!

If you did it over, would you go with the laminated beams again?

...

Talking to the ones questioning doing a build vs buy decision (sorry if this is enabling hijacking your thread). ... The best argument I hear to build (for commercial use) is to 'know your machine' and make it as you want it. The other side of that coin is it provides time to turn into sales. If a build takes 9 months, and delivery of a commercial one takes 2 months, that is 7 months of making deliveries to customers to make up the $$ difference in sales (and hopefully profit). The choice depends on you and your business model.

As a hobbiest, building a tool is as satisfying as using one. But that takes a different kind of attitude than the one that is less $$ constrained and wants to 'just use it'.

But again, those are just my thoughts. ... Jack
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  #86  
Old Sun 05 June 2011, 15:10
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Jack,
There are a few folks, myself included, that have built a MM from scratch - after receiving all the parts and pieces in a very short period of time. If you have a pile of parts, a 2 week build is possible - as long as you stay focused.

Best,
Sean
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  #87  
Old Sun 05 June 2011, 16:41
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Jack,

You can build a machine cheaper than you can buy one and you can make it the way you want it.
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  #88  
Old Sun 05 June 2011, 22:03
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Building one isn't always cheaper... To me it is because Gerald gave me the opportunity to say "Because I can." The rest are just bonus & excuses.
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  #89  
Old Mon 06 June 2011, 00:24
bradm
Just call me: Brad #10
 
Somerville(MA)
United States of America
"Cheaper" depends on your skill level, and how much your time is worth. As Sean points out, an experienced builder can make a MechMate in about 80 hours; if it's your first time with some of the techniques or technologies, I think I'd time budget double that. Whether a month of your time is worth more or less than the price difference between pre-built and parts is up to you.

Of course, if you do build, you also get a priceless education thrown into the mix, and that comes at no extra cost to you.
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  #90  
Old Mon 06 June 2011, 00:38
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
When you buy a machine from a typical vendor, you are still going to spend a number of hours unpacking, laying on power and other services, setting it up, levelling and kicking it into life. When things go slightly wrong, there are hours spent on filling out support tickets, hanging on the phone, leaving messages.... If you want to modify the hardware a little, you have to wait a year for the warranty to expire

Anyway, the point is that a purchased machine is seldom just plug and play and you'r away at full speed.
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