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  #1  
Old Sat 30 April 2011, 04:35
dalewalsh62
Just call me: Dale
 
Saint Petersburg
United States of America
CNC Control panels and Spindle

Like many people here, cost is important when selecting a component and some things are just not reasonably priced, currently I'm working on some rather unique product pricing to get complete CNC Motion System Control Panels and spindles at reasonable prices.

The panels are complete PLC based CNC motion control systems and can be run without Mach3, ECM2 or other CNC control software.

You can transfer (bidirectional) the g-code file by USB or serial port to/from the panel

This 2-axis panel would be suitable for lathe/laser/tourch/plasma and cost around $1500.00.

I currently have one of the DF 200T panels in stock that has a small dent in the top right corner which is purely cosmetic (courtesy of DHL) that I can let go for $900.00 if anyone is interested.

This 5-axis panel would be good for mills and routers and cost around $2500.00 (working on a lower price around $1650.00 and just waiting for the two production samples to arrive for testing).


These panels work with stepper drivers, AC Servo drivers or DC Servo drivers, pretty much any driver that accept step and pulse signals.

As well, Im considering making available my 3KW square bodied Air-Cooled ER20 spindle with integral mount (I was heavily involved in it's development) that I believe would make a wise choice for the MechMate over a conventional router or one of the water-cooled spindles that people seem to purchase for the lack of better options.

3PH 220V 3.0KW (18000RPM @ 300hz / 24000RPM @ 400hz).

There are currently copies of my spindle being sold on ebay and I can assure you the copies are not worth the money or close to the same quality, they didn't even obtain one to take accurate measurements from so the size is physically smaller, we disassembled one (someone I know tried to save a few bucks and bought a second one through ebay and then complained to me that it wasn't the same) and the stator is only capable of 1.5KW so buyer beware.

I wont be offering any sales outside USA or Canada so international purchasers would have to make alternate arrangements because I don't want to deal with the hassles of international shipping.

Last edited by dalewalsh62; Sat 30 April 2011 at 04:38..
  #2  
Old Sat 30 April 2011, 05:08
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Too expensive & international shipping is too much hassle.
  #3  
Old Sat 30 April 2011, 05:35
dalewalsh62
Just call me: Dale
 
Saint Petersburg
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenC View Post
Too expensive & international shipping is too much hassle.
Too expensive & international shipping is too much hassle???

Yes I don't want to deal with the hassles of international shipping and I don't believe you clearly understand what is being offered but if you think this is too expensive then I can quickly rescind the offer to users here.

A Fanuc panel will run you about $6000.00 plus shipping and isn't the complete motion control system, you need a card-cage and the motion control boards to work the panel.

HUST and GSK panels run around $3000.00 plus shipping so more like $3800.00+ by the time it's in your hand.

My prices include shipping and my 5-axis panel is a better product than the GSK 980MD panel by 2-axis, a 10.4in color display and extra features and I should be able to offer this cheaper, just waiting on the samples to arrive for testing before I give the final approval for production.
  #4  
Old Sat 30 April 2011, 06:02
IN-WondeR
Just call me: Kim
 
Randers
Denmark
For machines costing roughly around 5000$ to make, then yes, it's a bit expensive. Not many hobby CNC folks are going to buy such a product for a DIY machine.
And the hassle of international shipping isn't all that difficuelt as you make it sound like.
Perhaps your message would be better placed under The Market Place.
  #5  
Old Sat 30 April 2011, 06:23
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalewalsh62 View Post
. . . . my 3KW square bodied Air-Cooled ER20 spindle with integral mount (I was heavily involved in it's development)
Plse tell more about your involvement - I thought this design was ex-Italy?
  #6  
Old Sat 30 April 2011, 06:28
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Grabouw (Western Cape)
South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to Alan_c
Dale; this is a hobby/self build site and as such most of us build our own panels, as Kim pointed out for a machine that costs in the region of $5000, to spend half of that again on a panel is less than desirable. I would guess that at least 75% of the builders on this forum are outside the States and as such would involve international shipping. Please do some research on the users and their needs before making offers, and if we dont feel it suits us please dont threaten us to deny us your offer, it wasnt that good to start with.
  #7  
Old Sat 30 April 2011, 06:30
dalewalsh62
Just call me: Dale
 
Saint Petersburg
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by IN-WondeR View Post
For machines costing roughly around 5000$ to make, then yes, it's a bit expensive. Not many hobby CNC folks are going to buy such a product for a DIY machine.
And the hassle of international shipping isn't all that difficuelt as you make it sound like.
Perhaps your message would be better placed under The Market Place.
Having to fill out customs forms is time consuming, people requesting lower values to reduce duties all require time I don't have to give since I'm not making any profit on the products, if someone else want to do it they can knock themselves out.

While the panel seems expensive, it reduces the required hardware and makes wiring extremely simple, no more break out boards, software and configuring the embedded software to work with the hardware is simplified significantly by the implementation of a PLC panel.

My whole intention is to eventually get a 2-axis motion system including (750W or 1KW) AC Servo's with Tamagawa encoders and drivers for under $2000.00 and a complete 5-axis system for under $3500.00.

People are already spending roughing $1000.00 to $2500.00 for the electronics and motors so the price isn't really that different but the quality is.

I see many people using PC Routers on the MM and I see this as a cheap solution that isn't what I would consider an enterprise or commercially viable/dependable solution since they intend to do serious production work with the machine.

With that said I now see that the MM isn't being geared for production quality equipment and that too many corners are being cut by the DIYer's to get a machine running that they sacrifice too much in the process to save money so it's probably best that I don't make any offers to help people get better components at a more reasonable price since the emphasis seems to be on the lowest price.
  #8  
Old Sat 30 April 2011, 06:43
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Enjoy your venture.
We are just a bunch who wanna get things moving & done efficiently.
Since this is a non-US Canada origin site with a good mix of international members. Moreover, Even if want it, its too much trouble for you.

My late grand father once told me this, "Your product is only good when you can sell enough of it."
  #9  
Old Sat 30 April 2011, 06:49
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
The label on the spindle picture shows that it is from here: http://www.huajiang.cn/english/pro1.asp?cid=18

That Chinese producer is not claiming 24 000 rpm.
  #10  
Old Sat 30 April 2011, 06:51
IN-WondeR
Just call me: Kim
 
Randers
Denmark
And the same spindle on ebay would cost roughly 400$ including shipping to most anyewhere in the world.
http://cgi.ebay.com/3KW-AIR-COOLED-S...item3cb15f999e

I'm not sure you had any help in designing that item.
  #11  
Old Sat 30 April 2011, 06:55
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
and I helped build Great Wall of China.
  #12  
Old Sat 30 April 2011, 08:24
danhamm
Just call me: Dan
 
Williams Lake B.C. Canada
Canada
Yes, thats the same spindle I bought on ebay for 400.00 bucks..so..he was heavenly involved with it design.lol...
  #13  
Old Sat 30 April 2011, 09:38
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Normally these type of guys target the CNCzone first - why did we get him?
  #14  
Old Sat 30 April 2011, 18:39
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Wow, some people are just amazing.

Next time dont insult your potential customers and state the "Real" Problem and give your product as the solution.
  #15  
Old Sun 01 May 2011, 07:46
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
You know I left this thread because I find this concept interesting. I do think that our guest has not spent the time and effort it takes to understand what we are all about.

I would stand the MechMate platform up to ANY mainline production system to compare cost recovery over the first 3 years of full production. This is a commercial class machine being built by all levels of folks based on what they can invest in these platforms. That is the whole beauty of this machine. You can invest what you have to get into production and because you built the machine you can upgrade it as you wish when you have recovered your investment. It happens here all the time. I have seen this type solution used on othe CNC Routers - don't recall the line at this point. And I am sure they work fine. So does the MechMate.
  #16  
Old Sun 01 May 2011, 21:02
ger21
Just call me: Ger
 
Detroit, MI
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald D View Post
Normally these type of guys target the CNCzone first - why did we get him?

Because he got the same responses there first.
  #17  
Old Fri 20 May 2011, 01:59
dalewalsh62
Just call me: Dale
 
Saint Petersburg
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by IN-WondeR View Post
And the same spindle on ebay would cost roughly 400$ including shipping to most anyewhere in the world.
http://cgi.ebay.com/3KW-AIR-COOLED-S...item3cb15f999e

I'm not sure you had any help in designing that item.
HAHAHAHA, now that is funny and so untrue I don't know where to begin pointing out the flaws in those ebay spindles.

Yes, it's a partially stolen design and I don't deny that, I never have and, once the copies started surfacing a few months later people like you and danhamm, thinking you know something about the product made statements about the product you mistakenly know nothing about because neither one of you was bright enough to ask any questions to make that determination.

I'm too lazy to deal with filling out paperwork to ship anything overseas and if I have to do anything more than put a name and address into UPS shipping software, I've got no time or interest to deal with it but I'm sure you could have found one of your MechMate buddies here in the US ship it to you.

danhamm, despite what you believe, it is very unlikely you have the same spindle, more like a spindle that looks like it and I would put money on that.

If you wanna buy the copies being sold on ebay knock yourself out but it's not the same spindle and this is something I have already verified

I have examined one that someone bought trying to save $35.00 and then bitched to me after it arrived because it was physically smaller and that I needed to do something about it, sorry, he got what he paid for, a spindle that is 82mm x 88mm x 210mm with "Adopt Germany Import Bearing" and it would be almost impossible to put an 80MM OD stator into one of those 82mm bodies and have any strength, the rotor was only 38mm OD and my rotors are 45mm OD.

It's physically smaller and shorter, the stator winding isn't capable of 3.0KW on the coldest day in northern alaska, I can believe 1.5KW, 2,2KW in an AC environment at best and the "Adopt Germany Import Bearing" is just the type of quality you MechMate guys need to put on your $5,000.00 machine because they are inexpensive, NSK, Nachi or ceramic bearings wont come from ebay and it appears you guys feel those copies meet this MechMate requirement for a spindle.

I now produce my own BT30 ATC spindle that is only available through me.

I built a VMC machine for it and was considering offering the ATC spindle here as well for cost $(1900.00) plus shipping to USA customers but this would be a waste of time as someone would find some reason to complain.
(the tool changer was bought for $1500.00) (the machine with spindle cost me around $5,400.00)



(I've sold 2 of these machines at cost already.)

The MTC ER20 spindle I sell is very capable of 24,000 RPM, but since the spirit here is cheap and those who seem to know what I am selling without asking any questions suggest it's not a good deal I recommend you just buy one of those ones from ebay for $400.00 shipped that they are recommending you buy.

I don't have the interest to push a quality product on anyone and with all the comments from people who think they have a clue and don't it's best that I just avoid offering anything at cost when those who think they know something turn a genuine offer of a good product into a joke.

You can stick to your ebay spindles and PorterCable Routers, break out boards and Mach3, no one here is interested in quality product as evident by the comparison of my spindle price against an inferior ebay spindle price coupled with the posts about the cost of panels.

To think that a $5,000.00 machine isn't worth the investment of a top of the line CNC Motion Control System because it cost $2500.00 or even one of the GSK 980MDa panels which I get for $990.00 shows just how much one of these machines is valued by it's builder.

The thought of helping the DIY'er get a quality product at a reasonable price is just too time consuming when those making comments are about as bright as a burnt out light bulb.

Worrying about insulting potential customers, no, I wasn't looking for customers, only in helping those financially challenged get something they wouldn't otherwise get at a reasonable price but with all the attitudes and rocket scientists around here who think they know what's going on and are quick to make assumptions have only confirmed that such offers are a waste of time and clearly not wanted.

My conclusion, the MechMate while a good idea with great potential is devalued by the very users who seem to be supporting it by killing off any chance another user might have at getting something for a reasonable price.

What I also find interesting is how those posting can make such assumptions and statements without asking one intelligent question about the product and I take that as a sign that you guys don't need any help obtaining anything as you seem to have all the help you need right here.

You might as well lock this topic, I don't see anything beneficial coming out of future posts since I doubt their will be any fair treatment.

Last edited by Gerald D; Fri 20 May 2011 at 10:41..
  #18  
Old Fri 20 May 2011, 02:29
dalewalsh62
Just call me: Dale
 
Saint Petersburg
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan_c View Post
Dale; this is a hobby/self build site and as such most of us build our own panels, as Kim pointed out for a machine that costs in the region of $5000, to spend half of that again on a panel is less than desirable. I would guess that at least 75% of the builders on this forum are outside the States and as such would involve international shipping. Please do some research on the users and their needs before making offers, and if we dont feel it suits us please dont threaten us to deny us your offer, it wasnt that good to start with.
Most of you build your own CNC Motion Control System Panels???

Wow, you guys are gods!!!!!

That must be state of the art technology using the latest hybrid PLC embedded system or are you trying to make me believe that a PC with a touch screen running Mach3 is a true CNC Motion Control System with a Panel that reads encoders or scales?

You concluded the offer wasn't that good because you clearly have no clue what is being offered and didn't ask questions.

There is no threat, based on the responses I've had so far it is clear that such offers are not welcomed here and that's fine with me, no need for me to offer anything to people who are not interested in what I am offering.

Hell, they couldn't even get the spindle information correct and attacked me with their limited knowledge of it.

Last edited by dalewalsh62; Fri 20 May 2011 at 02:46..
  #19  
Old Fri 20 May 2011, 02:30
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Grabouw (Western Cape)
South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to Alan_c
For someone who is too "lazy" to fill out a shipping slip with more than a name and address you seem to have gone to extraordinary lengths to convince us of the error our ways - you must be exhausted...
  #20  
Old Fri 20 May 2011, 02:39
IN-WondeR
Just call me: Kim
 
Randers
Denmark
I must agree with alan, you seem to have too much spare time to sit and barf out all your negativity to this site and the responses you initially got from posting here.
If you have so much time for this, then you should have more than enough time to fill out international forms for shipping.
If you believe the people on this site really are this nearsighted, then please stop your babbling and move on to the next site.
You seem to have some products, but you do not back up your claims woth any documentation and so forth, so what, should we just take your word for it??
  #21  
Old Fri 20 May 2011, 02:51
dalewalsh62
Just call me: Dale
 
Saint Petersburg
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by IN-WondeR View Post
I must agree with alan, you seem to have too much spare time to sit and barf out all your negativity to this site and the responses you initially got from posting here.
If you have so much time for this, then you should have more than enough time to fill out international forms for shipping.
If you believe the people on this site really are this nearsighted, then please stop your babbling and move on to the next site.
You seem to have some products, but you do not back up your claims woth any documentation and so forth, so what, should we just take your word for it??
No one asked for any documentation, hell, no one asked any real questions let alone asked for documentation so don't piss and moan because the questions you have but didn't ask were not answered.

As far as my time goes, I decide how I wish to waste it, after all, it is my time, I'm not being paid for it.

I have moved on, there is little point in offering anything to anyone here when they can buy a cheaper copy on ebay that suits their needs, no one needs good, that was clear when they all pointed out they can buy the same on ebay for $400.00 shipped so let them knock themselves out.
  #22  
Old Fri 20 May 2011, 02:55
IN-WondeR
Just call me: Kim
 
Randers
Denmark
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalewalsh62 View Post
I have moved on, there is little point in offering anything to anyone here when they can buy a cheaper copy on ebay that suits their needs..
If you have moved on, why do you keep on replying to this thread.
  #23  
Old Fri 20 May 2011, 03:07
dalewalsh62
Just call me: Dale
 
Saint Petersburg
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by IN-WondeR View Post
If you have moved on, why do you keep on replying to this thread.
Because I no longer offer anything does this mean I can't post?

If you stop posting then I don't have to respond to your comments.

Last edited by dalewalsh62; Fri 20 May 2011 at 03:12..
  #24  
Old Fri 20 May 2011, 03:14
dalewalsh62
Just call me: Dale
 
Saint Petersburg
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by IN-WondeR View Post
I must agree with alan, you seem to have too much spare time to sit and barf out all your negativity to this site and the responses you initially got from posting here.
If you have so much time for this, then you should have more than enough time to fill out international forms for shipping.
If you believe the people on this site really are this nearsighted, then please stop your babbling and move on to the next site.
You seem to have some products, but you do not back up your claims woth any documentation and so forth, so what, should we just take your word for it??
Sorry to see you were incapable of asking questions to obtain the information or documentation you are looking for, asking now would be pointless.
  #25  
Old Fri 20 May 2011, 03:19
IN-WondeR
Just call me: Kim
 
Randers
Denmark
I just can't see the reason keeping on posting on a forum you obviously have such negative opinion about.
The users of this forum cannot use any of these postings to anything, and your continued negativity towards the users on this forum cannot be used for anything but boosting your own ego, which I think is the only thing you get from this.
If you really dislike this forum and the users on it for wanting to go their own ways and having their own opinions about a product, then I would ask you to leave and never look back. The core of DIY building is the ability to make something work for a small price.
As I pointed out ealier, spending let's say $2500 on a CNC control Panel from you on a machine that cost roughly $5000 to build including everything will not be viable to many DIY builders.
And the way you act when people point this out, lets me to believe that the seriousness of your business is way low, and quite seriously I would not want to do business with a person who acts the way you do when people don't just jump on your products.
  #26  
Old Fri 20 May 2011, 03:42
dalewalsh62
Just call me: Dale
 
Saint Petersburg
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by IN-WondeR View Post
I just can't see the reason keeping on posting on a forum you obviously have such negative opinion about.
The users of this forum cannot use any of these postings to anything, and your continued negativity towards the users on this forum cannot be used for anything but boosting your own ego, which I think is the only thing you get from this.
If you really dislike this forum and the users on it for wanting to go their own ways and having their own opinions about a product, then I would ask you to leave and never look back. The core of DIY building is the ability to make something work for a small price.
As I pointed out ealier, spending let's say $2500 on a CNC control Panel from you on a machine that cost roughly $5000 to build including everything will not be viable to many DIY builders.
And the way you act when people point this out, lets me to believe that the seriousness of your business is way low, and quite seriously I would not want to do business with a person who acts the way you do when people don't just jump on your products.
I see you you are stating all DIY'ers are so cheap and stingy that not one of them can afford or are willing to purchase a component that is superior and worth the investment.

If you see my posts as negative then stop being negative towards me and stop posting anything that would warrant a negative response from me, it is not that I dislike this place or the users in general, only the ones who have responded so far have shown how stupid they really are and as long as they are being negative towards me I am responding in kind.

You think I have no clue what this place is about, clearly I do, do not blame me for the ignorance or stupidity of others who failed to ask questions and made assumptions and negative implications about me or the products I offered, perhaps you should be telling them to stop posting their garbage and creating drama.

I did not receive one intelligent questions, instead I was subjected to stupidity because people who have been responding do not have the cognitive ability to interact with any semblance of intelligence as evident by the posts they left.

Even now, you continue to post your pompous crap rather than leaving things alone.

Not everyone at this forums is like you, some don't post because they do not wish to be mistreated or subjected to your attitude or treatment, unfortunately, I feel if you can dish it out you can take it and if you are offended by it then you shouldn't be saying anything or at least realize and accept that by responding, you will continue the drama until you stop.

Last edited by dalewalsh62; Fri 20 May 2011 at 03:50..
  #27  
Old Fri 20 May 2011, 04:23
Kobus_Joubert
Just call me: Kobus #6
 
Dalview
South Africa
Send a message via Yahoo to Kobus_Joubert Send a message via Skype™ to Kobus_Joubert
Hi there Dale...any WOMAN problem that we should know about...seems like you are going through a rough patch. Leave us DIY okes alone. We are HAPPY with what we have and dont need anything else. I have proven that with our CHEAP and NASTY equipment we can do as much as the PROFESSIONALS....if there are any of those around.
Go and sleep and maybe you will feel better in the morning.
You can reply again with your fire spitting venom, but this will be my last post to you.

Last edited by Kobus_Joubert; Fri 20 May 2011 at 04:30..
  #28  
Old Fri 20 May 2011, 05:05
dalewalsh62
Just call me: Dale
 
Saint Petersburg
United States of America
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobus_Joubert View Post
Hi there Dale...any WOMAN problem that we should know about...seems like you are going through a rough patch. Leave us DIY okes alone. We are HAPPY with what we have and dont need anything else. I have proven that with our CHEAP and NASTY equipment we can do as much as the PROFESSIONALS....if there are any of those around.
Go and sleep and maybe you will feel better in the morning.
You can reply again with your fire spitting venom, but this will be my last post to you.
All you have proven is that your too cheap to buy anything good and lumping all the other DIY'ers into your class is person is unfair to them.

I am sorry but I find it hard to believe that with cheap garbage a machine will stand up against industrial grade equipment.

Your last post to me, thanks for the warning, too bad you didn't have enough sense to not post in the first place rather than post the garbage you did.
  #29  
Old Fri 20 May 2011, 05:58
Alan_c
Just call me: Alan (#11)
 
Grabouw (Western Cape)
South Africa
Send a message via Skype™ to Alan_c
Mike, time to close this one and move it to the archive, its wasting our time...
  #30  
Old Fri 20 May 2011, 07:00
Regnar
Just call me: Russell #69
 
Mobile, Alabama
United States of America
Quote:
You might as well lock this topic, I don't see anything beneficial coming out of future posts since I doubt their will be any fair treatment.
Original poster asked for it so might as well. Simply Amazing
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