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  #1  
Old Sat 26 September 2009, 17:58
michel colonade
Just call me: michel
 
jerusalem
Israel
Big Router - Jerusalem, Israel

hello all, first sorry for my bad english, i was born in france and like you know, french people don't now many more than french.
about my question : i think may be 2 years to build a big cnc machine for both wood and stone works (you can see my stone works at www.jerusalem-stone.com if you want) but i have some things i don't know like wich motors to choose, and what ballscrew with wich pitch etc
i need this machine to be 4 axis, 3 conventionals and 1 rotary axis for columns
the dimensions of the work area must be 250x180 cm
i built some stone machines in the past but never a cnc, yet
is someonecan try tohelp me ?
thank's
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  #2  
Old Sat 26 September 2009, 21:05
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
Michel,
Welcome to the forum. The Mechmate does not use ballscrew, but rather rack and pinion drive. Motors for the Mechmate design are well documented in their respective section of the forum. Also the Mechmate plans are geared to let you make the machine to whatever size you want. Download the plans, look them over and then start reading the forum threads.

Good Luck
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  #3  
Old Sun 27 September 2009, 02:44
michel colonade
Just call me: michel
 
jerusalem
Israel
thank' s heath, i will download the plans, and i will try to size the machine
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  #4  
Old Sun 27 September 2009, 04:56
sailfl
Just call me: Nils #12
 
Winter Park, FL
United States of America
Michel,

The machine is 3 Axis for normal cutting of every thing. If you want an indexer or the 4 axis to cut columns, you can place that at the end. Art has a machine dedicated to columns, Sean has modified one machine he built for indexer and there is a build in the works that has a place for an indexer. Small number have added indexer but you can find thread on it.

Welcome to the MM build site and good luck with your build.
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  #5  
Old Sun 27 September 2009, 07:27
michel colonade
Just call me: michel
 
jerusalem
Israel
thank's nils
when you say an indexer, is it a special axis that is many more complicated, or is it an other stepper motor like the 3 others.
usualy, the 3 first axis are moving the spindle with the tools that are carving the material, but this 4th axis is moving the material
i thank god i found this forum, because before, for each question i had, i spent months in the web
thank you so much for all the good guys that are ready to help
an thank's again
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  #6  
Old Sun 27 September 2009, 08:49
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Welcom abord Michel,
VERY Nice work we can on your website.
To many Mechmate-ers, GERALD is more than the administrator, creator & the group’s leader…he’s also our spiritual mentor….
but don’t call him our God because he as a nice white beard like a sage man…..

Si pour des besoins de communications et de simplifier des désire de d'exprimer pourrait être simplifié en français, tu peux compter sur mon aide pour tes questions à ce nivaux. Je suis présentement en plein coeur de route pour finaliser la fabrication de cette merveille, mais en plus, avec un 4e axe incorporé à même le châssis. IVO (MechMate build in Estonia) somme curieusement et purement de coïncidence, somme sur le même design pour cet Indexeur. Pour ma part, j'ai débuté ce design il y a plus de deux ans, mais par faute de temps, budget et espacement, a dû attendre jusqu'à ce jour.
Donc, je t'invite à suivre nos évolutions respectives, Ivo et moi, pour d'aidé à mieux comprendre. Quoique je prévois avoir ce MechMate fonctionnel avant fin octobre, pour ce qui est de l'indexeur , il devras attendre vers le printemps 2010

Bonne chance et surtout prend tout le temps nécessaire pour faire beaucoup, beaucoup, beaucoup de lecture d'information disponible sur ce site et les liens qui te serrons recommander. Plusieurs amateurs débutants, qui comme toi non jamais fait un tel projet compte +/- 6 à 12 mois de préparation et lecture avant de si avancés. Mais crois en ma position actuelle, tout cela vaut le coup et ce temps...

Amicalement, Robert
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  #7  
Old Mon 28 September 2009, 10:27
michel colonade
Just call me: michel
 
jerusalem
Israel
merci enormement robert, j espere que cela ne derange pa les autres quel on communique en francais, pour moi c est beaucoupplus facile, car je me casse les dents a parler l englais.
je suis tout nouveau dans cette etude, mais j avance pas a pas (comme les moteurs)
il y a qualques points que je n ai pas encore saisi, j ai cru comprendre qu il fallait en premier temp decider de des dimensions de a machine, ensuite dedecider de la force des moteurs, de la motion lineaire, mais il y a quelques points que je n arrive pas a comprendre :
1) combien de moteurs faut il sur l axe X
2) quels sont les moteurs qui ont besoin de gear
3) comment peut on savoir quelle force de moteur on a besoin
4) la plupartdes machines sur ce forum ont un petit axe Z, J AURAIS BESOIN D AU MOINS 40CM DE HAUTEUR
5) est-ce que le 4eme axe (pour les colonnes) est tres difficile a faire ?

merci pour avoir aime mes traveaux, j espere faire de nouveaux produits beaucoup plus elaboreslorsque j aurai termine cette machine.
a+
michelico
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  #8  
Old Mon 28 September 2009, 12:19
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Désoler pour ton anglais….
mais il te faut faire de petits efforts occasionnels, pour le respect des autres collègues.
You must make some basic homework studies, reading + you must download the plans.
Start by downloading plans, read some basic threads in this forum, and especially pay attention to this too : How to ask questions the smart way
Je ne rejette pas tes questions, sauf cela me prouve que tu n’as pas fait les simples devoirs préliminaires !...a must to be part of this group
Au plaisir de te relire, amicalement, Robert
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  #9  
Old Mon 28 September 2009, 12:55
michel colonade
Just call me: michel
 
jerusalem
Israel
ok robert, trough building this machine i hope too, to learn english better, so i will catch two birds with only one stone.
i already downloaded the plans and tomorrow i will send them to cut
i tryed to find an aswer to this question but din't find : can i build a 3 axis machine, to buy a 4 axis controler, and to add the 4th axis in the future ?
i think that it will be better for a inexperienced man like me
what do you think ?
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  #10  
Old Mon 28 September 2009, 16:35
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Michel,
Mach 3, the computer software that controls the MM is a able 4 axis' of motion and upto 6 with the correct hardware.
Build your 3 axis version with the power supply sized to accommodate the extra axis and upgrading later will be an easy chore.

Good luck.
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  #11  
Old Mon 28 September 2009, 16:51
michel colonade
Just call me: michel
 
jerusalem
Israel
ok sean thak you
by the way, do you know wht is the maximum height i can do in the z axis ?
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  #12  
Old Mon 28 September 2009, 19:36
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
The standard MM allows for 2 lengths with the longest being 350mm of stroke. (refer to dwg's 10 40 000 & 10 40 014 for details)
If you want longer, you will have to go off-the-pages to develop your own. Unless your planning on cutting 3d foam or some other "lightweight" material - the 2 options listed in the design are more than adequate.

If you follow my threads, you will see that I successfully adapted my machine for a 4th axis and 36" z stroke. Not easy, not cheap - but fun!

Welcome to MM

Last edited by smreish; Mon 28 September 2009 at 19:43.. Reason: added dwg page details
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  #13  
Old Mon 28 September 2009, 23:28
michel colonade
Just call me: michel
 
jerusalem
Israel
thank's sean
i will follow your treads, have a good day in florida
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  #14  
Old Tue 29 September 2009, 04:41
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Michel,
To be fair, and to get a good sampling of longer z-slides, be sure to look in all the forum pages. More specifically, art @ turning around.org which specializes in 4th axis router fabrication and use.
Their about 4-6 longer z slides I know of in use with MM, custom machines and shopbot...all have their place.
Good luck
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  #15  
Old Tue 29 September 2009, 16:52
michel colonade
Just call me: michel
 
jerusalem
Israel
thanks sean
it s me michel, i had a probleme going inside the forum because i forgot my password
(two usernames now merged together)
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  #16  
Old Wed 30 September 2009, 05:47
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
...I just realized that my post's lately have not been of the highest quality grammar and clarity. I must stop Mechmating from my iphone while watching the kids soccer game

Happy reading Michel.
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  #17  
Old Wed 30 September 2009, 07:39
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Sean... I wouldn't worry about this even if it happens to.... the best of us
I know too much about this
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  #18  
Old Wed 30 September 2009, 08:41
domino11
Just call me: Heath
 
Cornwall, Ontario
Canada
It gets worse as the day wears long.
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  #19  
Old Thu 01 October 2009, 15:43
michel colonade
Just call me: michel
 
jerusalem
Israel
hello evrybody from jerusalem
ok, after hours of thinking and checking all the sites on the web, i finaly decided to build my mechmate, already ordered all the laser parts (350$)
i don't know if anybody else from jerusalem already did one, but i will be very proud to be the first to put the mechmate flag
i hope to assembly all the mechanical parts into 2 weeks (that is the easy part for me) but already worry about all the electronics
everything is clear for me now from the genius plans of mechmate, especialy after downloading the solidworks drawings (assembly) the only thing that i don't know already is the motors choice, because i don' t need a lot of speed for my kind of jobs, but i need many more power.
i think to use 12nm stepper motors (about 1700 o-z) i saw a good motor in this site : http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co....4e34aae72c194d
the name of the motor is : FL86STH156-4208A-H

Voltage: 5.25V
Current (phase): 4.2A
Resistance (Phase): 1.25Ohm
Inductance (Phase): 8mH
Holding Torque: 11.96Nm
Length: 156mm
Shaft version: Single shaft

do you think that this is a good choice, and has somedy experience with it
they have also an antiere kit for 4 steppers like that, drivers and controller for this price :
4pcs FL86STH156-4208A-H £90.55 each Sub-total: £362.20

4pcs MSD2278 Drive/P-Supply £147.88 each Sub-total: £591.52

1pc MCP25 Breakout Board £20.00 each Sub-total: £20.00

can't wait anymore for beguining this machine, i have already tell all my clients in los angeles that i will send them soon some surprises.
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  #20  
Old Thu 01 October 2009, 16:23
Robert M
Just call me: Robert
 
Lac-Brome, Qc
Canada
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Salut Mec,
Before going in any detail of why this is a way to big motor, here’s some link you MUST of mist in your reading quest / required.
Motors & their mountings...and
Why a stepper motor should not be too big . . . .

Don’t rush it, take the time to understand each steps, phase & factors of this built. Chassis, motion, controllers, softwares…etc. Le temps est de l’argent, tout aussi vrais que trop vite est comme pas assez, tu pailleras beaucoup plus en bout de ligne….
Take the time my friend and make this a learning fun experience, not a quest to make a CNC work by next week!
Amicalement, Robert
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  #21  
Old Thu 01 October 2009, 16:44
michel colonade
Just call me: michel
 
jerusalem
Israel
hi robert, good to read u again
look, i am 40 years old now (tetu comme un bouriquot), all my life i gone very fast, i believe this is the way you can do many things, of course everything must be done with calculation of what you do first, but in the same moment you decided, take the fire and go with the light speed, i built my first machine into 1 week, not a cnc, but a special machine for carving stone sinks in 1 hour, the traditional machines do it in 2 hours, and i spent for this 500$
quel temp il fait chez vous ?
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