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  #1  
Old Tue 20 September 2011, 04:00
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
Cool Panel Cover Logo #107 - Dakovo, Croatia

Hello people,

I have plans for couple of years and now is the time for start building one. I must admit that these are very excited times for me.
I have ordered step motors and drill.
Outer dimension will be 3000 x 2000 mm.
Only thing which I cant come to is the V wheels, which I need in correct dimensions.

drill: http://www.ebay.com/itm/220724876745...t_10547wt_1139
steppers: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200625722122...ht_4758wt_1410

If anyone has any info about these V -Wheels, please , write here or you can sen me PP.
Also, any helpfull information, please dont be shy

Marko
Attached Images
File Type: png V-bearing wheel.png (14.5 KB, 2655 views)

Last edited by marko cro; Tue 20 September 2011 at 04:02..
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  #2  
Old Tue 20 September 2011, 04:21
baseball43v3r
Just call me: John #96
 
Glendora (California)
United States of America
I can help with this one! most of the builders are using v-wheels supplied by Rick from Superior Bearing. the thread is located here
http://mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=288#post288
Best of Luck to you in your build.
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  #3  
Old Tue 20 September 2011, 06:24
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
He does ship all over the world. You can also machine them yourself and press in standard bearing. OH Yeah - Welcome back and we are looking forward to your build !!
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  #4  
Old Tue 20 September 2011, 07:38
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
Thank you
I hope it will be done this year, but if not, at january should be working.
I am very interested how to DIY. Will look into it today.
Thanks
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  #5  
Old Tue 20 September 2011, 08:00
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
I was wondering what are the thoughts about the steppers and drill?
thanks
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  #6  
Old Tue 20 September 2011, 08:06
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
Spindle (not drill) is ok, but a bad combination with chinese low quality VFD.

Also choose stepper motors with smaller inductance , less then 5 is ok. You pointed to ones with 15mH, same as Casi (friend from Kosovo), you can wait and see what is his experience because he allready has them. Look here:
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showt...highlight=casi

Look for what others used and threads about motors. All new members make that mistake everyone looks at torque rating, read more about inductance and voltage which gives you higher RPM needed on a router.

You can make wheels on a lathe, easier on a cnc lathe as I did.
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  #7  
Old Thu 22 September 2011, 02:27
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
Hello my balkan friend.
I belive my drivers are much stronger than ones he has.
I have a power supply of 48 vdc. I think that our friend from kosovo had the unbalanced drivers/steppers/and power supply.
From the point of precision, I think i havent overkilled with the power/percision ratio, coz I dont want to have a powerfull, but unprecise machine cutting for me.
I was looking for a review of these engines, and it should satisfy but of my needs.
I am interested in DIY wheels, but I will send you PP for details.
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  #8  
Old Thu 22 September 2011, 06:54
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
Stepper motor speed has nothing to do with Amps or power, you can not get proper RPM out of undervoltage motor.

Maximum voltage is calculated with Mariss from Geckodrive , formula:

32 * sqrt (inductance)

in your case its 124V ... so 48 won't do it, better aim at 70V DC, the drives in that package can use up to 80V.
Also the unregulated PSU is far simpler and you can make it for a price that you sell the existing 8amp 48V psu in the package.

read some of it here
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1114

Quote:
7. If you want the motor to be compatible with a certain range of drives, the motor inductance must match. For Geckodrives, the inductance must typically be somewhere between 1.5 and 6mH. (The Gecko 250/540 wants around 3mH). Very low inductance motors cannot be driven properly by Gecko's, while very high inductance motors need very high voltage drives that are not easy to obtain.

Last edited by danilom; Thu 22 September 2011 at 06:58..
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  #9  
Old Wed 09 November 2011, 15:29
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
With a help from my friend, I started to desing the table and the rest of the machine.
It was designed in solidowks and its almost complete.
here are some pictures of table design.
Comments are welcome


and a high ress photo :
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/stolcina3.jpg/
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  #10  
Old Wed 09 November 2011, 17:20
revved_up
Just call me: Craig
 
Hartland, MI
United States of America
The X beams are both facing with the opening in the channel to the right instead of having the open sides of the channel facing to the inside.
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  #11  
Old Wed 09 November 2011, 18:01
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Craig,
I think he is using I beam (w shape) - thus open flange on both sides. Good eye! Those using a C channel like the plans dictate often get that orientation wrong.

Sean
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  #12  
Old Thu 10 November 2011, 03:47
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
Yes, I am planning to use I shape, with flat I profile, not bended.
This table is 380 kg in weight, and still its very light.
Here are some additional pictures of the MM.
Z car :
X Car :




Most of these part were designed from blueprints from my friend Turpija(Rasp), who was a great help.

Last edited by marko cro; Thu 10 November 2011 at 04:03..
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  #13  
Old Thu 10 November 2011, 06:42
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
The only comment I have is you show in the Z-slide picture only 4 bearings. The spider assembly will work with only 4, but if you utilize the mamba series drawings, the extra 2 bearings will allow a longer retraction of the z-slide, which in turn is a more usable area under gantry for cutting deep parts.
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  #14  
Old Thu 10 November 2011, 08:39
casi
Just call me: veni
 
prishtin
Serbia
Yes I have the same stepper like you Biker with 15mh as Danilo said but I have buy these before notified with the builders here .
I've tested these but do not know how to function in machine .
If I was notified before purchasing , I had to choose like most of the boys here .
(I apologize for my english)
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  #15  
Old Mon 14 November 2011, 08:31
rischoof
Just call me: Rik #92
 
Goirle
Netherlands
Red face diy v wheels

Biker,
your drawings are beautiful but I saw that you asked the possibility of machining v groove bearings yourself so here my experience and finall advise

I started to make the V wheels myself in Taiwan. The raison was that I could not buy them here, It was the only item that I not found. in local stores
I have an emco compact 8 lath so I decided to make them myself. so here my plan and the problems I run into.

First I bought slices of steel. 55mm outside whit a hole from 25 mm and 20 mm thick I bought 16 slices for approx 6 euro all
then I bought the bearings to measure the dimensions exactly so I could determine the final thickness of the slices and the diameter of the hole where the bearing has to fit. The first bearings I would install was the z 6001 inner hole 12 outer size 28 mm. brand Nachi, they are cheap here about 1 euro each.
the thickness of the bearings is 8 mm so the thickness of the slices has to become 16 mm.

First I machines the slices exactly 16 mm +/- 0.02 mm to be able to do this I installed measurement gauges with a magnet holder on he lath. the reason to do this accurate is that I was able to reverse the slices to make the v groove in them.

second I machined the side grooves back to a diameter of 35 mm

third I machined the inner diameter to 31.99 +/- 0.01
measure the outside from the bearings to be able to make a press fit fiting

4th I installed the bearings. Then I find out that it was a problem to get the two bearings in line. so I changed the two 6001 bearings by one 5201 bearing they are around 4 euro here from nachi. There outer diameter is 32 mm so I had to rework all the holes

5th I installed the bearings with locktide heavy strength install fluid, I forgot the locktide number, and yes it is very strength, I had to press out a bearing and I had to use heat and operate the press with 2 people to get the bearing out

6th I made a mandrill with a size of 12 mm to be able to place the pre machined slices back on the lath and machine the groove with the centre as the bearing The bearings are placed on the 12mm mandrill and clamped with a very large washer and nut to jaws of the lath head.

7th I tried to machine a small groove in the middle.
But If you read carefully I wrote tried.
The force to machine the grove was that big that the mandrill get out of position in the lath head, so I made the mandrill again to be sure the 12 mm axle is exactly centred.
My plan was to place the slide in a 45 degree position and machine half of the v groove, then my plan was to turn the slice and machine the other half of the v groove. That was the reason I machined the thickness from the slices precisely.

I spent a couple of evenings behind my lath but I was not capable to machine the v grooves.

Finally I bring them to a machine shop to ask if they could machine the V grooves

My conclusion: next time I need V groove bearings, Eric from superior bearings is my man. Than I also know that they are made from the correct material and hardness. time spent to get the materials and trying to machine them is not worth the price benefit in my case

Or I have to improve my lath skills.................http://www.mechmate.com/forums/images/icons/icon11.gif
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  #16  
Old Mon 14 November 2011, 10:47
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
Hi Rik,

Thank you for your insight in the DY V wheels. With help of Danilo, I have managed to get it for a very good price and in good quality. I will put some pictures of the parts which Danilo send me from Serbia.
Thank you Danilo one more.
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  #17  
Old Mon 14 November 2011, 11:30
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Rik, it is important to make both sides of the V-groove, and the bearing hole right through, with one "clamping" of the wheel on a 35mm step. Your big mistake was to use both 35mm steps and to try and work from 2 sides.
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  #18  
Old Sun 20 November 2011, 05:54
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
As the plans goes on, I am trying to find out what should be the distance in the picture.
Thanks
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  #19  
Old Sun 20 November 2011, 06:19
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Closer to 19mm overhang
The rack is approx. 13mm wide, and you need a little clearance on the back side between the rack and the main member for variances in the main member straightness.

Last edited by smreish; Sun 20 November 2011 at 06:22..
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  #20  
Old Sun 20 November 2011, 06:25
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
Thanks,

Will change in design
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  #21  
Old Sun 20 November 2011, 07:06
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
metric rack Modul 1 is 15x15mm
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  #22  
Old Sun 20 November 2011, 07:23
aniljangra
Just call me: Anil #44
 
Delhi
India
Send a message via Skype™ to aniljangra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald D View Post
Rik, it is important to make both sides of the V-groove, and the bearing hole right through, with one "clamping" of the wheel on a 35mm step. Your big mistake was to use both 35mm steps and to try and work from 2 sides.
Rik, I made the rollers on small lathe without much problem, the only difficult part was removing a lot of metal on this small lathe as I started with thicker slices than required. You can look for few hints in the picture here http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showt...1&postcount=23

The tricky part is to get the V groves correct, for this I used 2 operations (without removing the wheel from mandrel of course). I used one bit to make the groove to approx size and then another BIT (carefully grounded to exact angle) to just finish the groove. As the angle on all of the wheels are correct the little difference in depth doesn't matter (Gerald provided enough opportunities for adjustments in the design)

The tool post was always at exact 90 deg and never disturbed in between two operations in the groove making process. Actually I made the quick change tool post just for the reason without this quick change tool post I can't imagine I would have got it correct.

Good luck and may be you should try once more

Anil
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  #23  
Old Wed 07 December 2011, 06:39
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
Another question/opinion.
Rack and pinion ratio. I will put a pinion diameter of 26/24 mm, with 24 teeth.
With reduction 3.6:1 @ 900 RPM, will get around 30 cm per sec.
1st plan is to go to direct drive and DIY reduction. But I will see if I can get it right away to reduction.
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  #24  
Old Wed 07 December 2011, 06:42
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
18m/min is satisfactory, you wont be cutting anything at that speed
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  #25  
Old Wed 07 December 2011, 18:49
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
Before you start cutting anything at 18m/min. Do build a 5ton table for it & anchor your MM on the floor permanently.
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  #26  
Old Thu 08 December 2011, 02:41
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
I know it wont be possible, but empty space could go that speed. I think it will be satisfactory even at 150 mm sec. That also could be 2 high ?!?
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  #27  
Old Thu 08 December 2011, 02:56
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
what are you cutting ? paper?
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  #28  
Old Thu 08 December 2011, 04:02
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
Relax dude, I am still working the calculations. What is your machine working speed?
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  #29  
Old Thu 08 December 2011, 04:32
KenC
Just call me: Ken
 
Klang
Malaysia
1000~4000mm/min depending on material, bits, depth of cut & required finishing.
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  #30  
Old Sun 25 December 2011, 17:29
marko cro
Just call me: Marko #107
 
Dakovo
Croatia
Another quick render of the machine
Still waiting for the metal pipes to start welding
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