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  #691  
Old Tue 28 February 2012, 08:00
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Ross, don't you just love the freedom to put pipes through the table of a self-built table? Guys with Multicams, Thermwoods, etc must feel so restricted!
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  #692  
Old Tue 28 February 2012, 16:40
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Sean - Thanks for the generous comments.

Gerald - You bet - the ability to pass the pipes through the support board was a big plus in terms of the mounting options.
Initially I wasn't keen to drill the through holes but as the design process went on, it became increasingly obvious that was the best way to go.

Regards
Ross
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  #693  
Old Tue 28 February 2012, 18:21
TechGladiator
Just call me: Miguel #94
 
Randolph, NJ
United States of America
Ross;

You didn't void the warranty with those holes? .

That is some nice work!.. You have given me an idea as to how to hod down a mold that I am about to make..

Every time I look at your thread I just shake my head as to what you are going to come up with next ..

Cheers
Miguel
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  #694  
Old Wed 29 February 2012, 17:36
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
That is a sweet design !!
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  #695  
Old Sat 03 March 2012, 04:24
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Breaking Things

Broken Stepper
I used Locktite 609 to ensure my pinions did not slip on the motor shafts.
Even my friend the hammer was no match for how well the shaft and pinion were bound together.
The only way they were going to part was to use a good dose of the map gas flame and by that time I already had a stepper that was seized.
Lesson learned.

Clogged carbide burr.
My shaping exploits continued today, I got one side of a board done then suddenly the carbide burr filled with glue as it cut the wooden stringer.
My substandard test surfboard blanks were also glued up with substandard glue. Upon a retrospective inspection of the glue line it never was going to turn out well.
Another lesson learned.

Solutions
Broken stepper - Avoid using with my friend the hammer and buy two new ones as replacements.
Clogged burr - soak overnight in Acetone.

So my machine lays idle until the replacement stepper arrives.
I had previously ordered a "replacement" stepper from a supplier but they sent whatever they had rather than what they should !!

Regards
Ross
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  #696  
Old Sat 03 March 2012, 06:39
bozona1
Just call me: don
 
New Brunswick
Canada
Sorry to hear that Ross. Once you have a machine it is very hard to imagine having it down. Hope you get your stepper and have it going again soon. I have a question about securing pinions. Why not use 3mm or 1/8" spring pins. That's what I do and never have a problem with slipping. Of course don't hammer it in but gently squeeze in with vise grips or large pliers. Works well for me.

Don
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  #697  
Old Sat 03 March 2012, 09:43
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
You are of course going to open the stepper and change the bearing?! Nothing to loose....you might be surprised and gain a working stepper again.
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  #698  
Old Sat 03 March 2012, 12:51
WTI
Just call me: James
 
Detroit (Michigan)
United States of America
Mariss from Geckodrive says you can dissasemble square steppers, but not round ones - because you lose 60% of the torque by disturbing the magnetic field.
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  #699  
Old Sun 04 March 2012, 00:50
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Is Mariss at last agreeing that the newer steppers can be opened?

Hey, you might even find that your round stepper has rare earth magnets. Give it a shot. Ther's nothing to loose.
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  #700  
Old Sun 04 March 2012, 00:59
danilom
Just call me: Danilo #64
 
Novi Sad
Serbia
You just should not remove the rotor from the case they say, it might be safe to remove the front plate and change the bearing.

Try it! we want pictures from the inside

just found this... blast from the past
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/sho...6&postcount=38

Last edited by danilom; Sun 04 March 2012 at 01:07..
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  #701  
Old Sun 04 March 2012, 02:50
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Hi Guys

Sorry for the late reply, been away - surfing of course.
Keeping in mind I was the bloke with the hammer in the first place, as you all rightly point out I have nothing to loose.
Danilo thanks for the link to the pics.

We shall see what transpires

Regards
Ross
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  #702  
Old Mon 05 March 2012, 00:04
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Motionking 34HS9801 Disassembled

Hi All

Pulled the motor apart and the bearings were good.
I feel the issue is with the position of the top bearing on the central shaft and might play some more to see if I can fix it.

After the stepper failed to easily fix up, returned to my spare and made it fit, so now my machine is up and working again.
Cleaned the machine up a bit too as the C car pinion and the Z slide were all packed with compressed foam.
The C car pinion required a carbide point to pick out all the rock hard foam.
A brass brush would not look at it even after a soaking in solvent.

Anyway the pics you were asking for provide a nice insight into the internals of a stepper motor, and it was very easy to disassemble as well.
All the magnets, bearing seats and the windings are clearly visible for others to examine.

IMG_2581.jpg

IMG_2582.jpg

IMG_2583.jpg

IMG_2587.jpg

IMG_2588.jpg

Regards
Ross
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  #703  
Old Mon 05 March 2012, 00:21
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Ross, looked back over a couple of your machine photos and noticed that you left the end of the motors open . . . . dust could have gotten to those "shielded" bearings. I would buy a pair of "sealed" bearings (rubber seals) and fit them to the rotor before going any further. I have a good feeling this motor is going to run fine again.
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  #704  
Old Mon 05 March 2012, 00:58
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Found it - Thanks Gerald

Pulled it apart again as it only takes about 2 minutes.
Re-seated the bearings but it remained still bound.

I put the top bearing cup assay over the bearings, spun them and immediately found the problem.
The top bearing turns smoothly but has lots of wobble in it and that was causing the magnets of the armature and stator to bind due to the strong magnetic pull.

Your words and the advise of others was ringing in my ears as I was vacuuming foam out of the bottom of the C car motor the other day.
I put some masking tape over the hole mid cut after that but pulled it off later.
I will put a more permanent fix in place.

Thanks
Ross
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  #705  
Old Mon 05 March 2012, 15:46
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Also found the magnets had moved up the shaft from the impact
There were some locating marks scribed into the center shaft that gave the movement away.

Regards
Ross
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  #706  
Old Mon 05 March 2012, 20:12
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
My high hopes for the survival of that motor are starting to fade
but we are learning stuff
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  #707  
Old Mon 05 March 2012, 20:14
TechGladiator
Just call me: Miguel #94
 
Randolph, NJ
United States of America
@Gerald: Well, I always wondered what the inside of one looked like.. and now thanks to Ross I know..
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  #708  
Old Mon 05 March 2012, 21:53
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
She's Dead Jim

No surprise really but in the end I nearly got it to turn smoothly but it would catch every so often.
Pulled it completely apart once their was nothing to loose so here are two pics for you all.

The Shaft
14mm ends with 17 mm centers for the bearings.
Note the ridge down the middle of the shaft - that is how i picked up the magnets had moved.

IMG_2599.jpg

The Other Bits
The "magnets" are made up of packs of washers, shims and the magnets themselves.
Note the pattern in the of the magnet pairs on the right, they alternate.

IMG_2598.jpg

We all learned something I suppose but I also learned the price of a new replacement stepper.

Regards
Ross
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  #709  
Old Mon 05 March 2012, 22:51
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Very interesting Ross! I wonder how the magnets are supposed to transmit their torque to the shaft. There is no obvious keyway or spline .....were they very tight?

The shaft apparently has to be non-magnetic and so stainless steel is used. This is soft and easily damaged. It has a nasty habit of welding itself to steel under high friction. That groove might have been intentional - could it be the locking method? If there was welding when you pushed the the parts off the shaft, then that line would have gone all the way to the end. I suspect that the line is made before assembly. Are there more lines around the shaft?

Sorry for the curiosity at your expense
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  #710  
Old Mon 05 March 2012, 23:35
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Hi Gerald

Happy to share.

All the fits were very loose, a light tap on with the hammer while I held it in my hand was enough to remove the magnets.
The bearings also came off fairly easily too, but not as loose as the magnets.

Stainless steel shaft is consistent as it was very shiny steel.

The shaft had 4 grooves in it, however the centers of all the magnets are perfectly round.
I was thinking the grooves might be there to locate (but not lock in) the magnet pack somehow as I saw the line once the magnet pack had slipped upwards.

I think my final problem may have been related to the alignment of all the packs.
Initially I was able to twist the upper and lower packs relative to each other and then they locked up again (maybe not in the right place).

Regards
Ross
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  #711  
Old Tue 06 March 2012, 18:06
WTI
Just call me: James
 
Detroit (Michigan)
United States of America
I'm completely missing how the magnets are locked to the shaft.

Were they bound with Loc-Tite at some point?
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  #712  
Old Tue 06 March 2012, 18:14
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Hi James

Friction fit as their is no evidence of any retaining fluids.

Regards
Ross
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  #713  
Old Tue 06 March 2012, 18:33
bozona1
Just call me: don
 
New Brunswick
Canada
Thanks Ross
Very nicely documented dissection.

I worked in motors in another life and that is the typical method of assembly for any rotor. The splines are the only thing holding everything together. It's one thing to slide the disks and magnets off the end but a totally different thing if you were to try rotating everything on the shaft when newly pressed. The magnetic field actually stops everything from sliding on the shaft.

Don
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  #714  
Old Tue 20 March 2012, 04:25
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Improvements to Vacuum Sealing

My vacuum cups worked well enough to fully hold down a shaped surfboard on its cut side but I have chased some further incremental improvements.

Quite lazily I had been not regulating the pressure through the vacuum venturi.
I introduced a second regulator on the inlet side of the venturi and dropped the delivery pressure to the rated pressure of 80 PSI.
After a few tests on compressor cycle times, the lower pressure wasted much less air.

Been on the hunt for some self adhesive closed cell foam sheets for a while now and found it right under my nose at a local store.
The 3mm EVA foam is great for vacuum puck seals but I realised that it could further reduce leakage between my vacuum cups and the shaped surfboard foam.

The Seals and Foam
IMG_2624.jpg

Sharpened Pipe Cutting Dyes
IMG_2625.jpg

Cup Seals in Place (not stuck down)
IMG_2623.jpg

The compressor has now gone from busy to cruising.
I have also valved up the two sets of cups for separate control at each end of the table.
Alignment of the surfboard blank should be much easier now.
IMG_2626.jpg

Last night I got to talk with CNC royality, a trail blazer in the CNC surfboard shaping world who has commissioned 60 plus shaping machines.
Lovely guy and immediately commented on the good practical design of Gerald's Mechmate.
He enjoys minimalist design and in his words "less things to go wrong".
You have to admit that's pretty good advice and parallels the Mechmate design philosophy nicely.

Regrds
Ross
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  #715  
Old Tue 20 March 2012, 09:58
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
...Less is more - most of the time.
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  #716  
Old Sun 25 March 2012, 00:17
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
SS-02 Ethernet SmoothStepper Question

I have just tried to swap in a P4 3GHz Del as a machine controller and it is not going to work with my collection of PCI parallel port cards (no onboard port).
Horrid pulsing in the drivertest.exe, so thinking about a move over to another port when I saw an Ethernet SS is out.

Has anyone used one yet or heard anything I might like to know.
Send a PM if your not willing to shout out loud your experiences.
http://www.warp9td.com/


Thanks
Ross
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  #717  
Old Mon 26 March 2012, 05:24
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
No news is good news.
Have ordered the Ethernet Smoothstepper as reviews elsewhere seem to indicate any loss of communications issues have vanished in the Ethernet SS.

Crash test dummy.. hope not

Ross
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  #718  
Old Mon 26 March 2012, 06:57
Travish
Just call me: Travis #75
 
Wa
United States of America
Go for it Ross!

I have the USB SS and am happy with it even though it is sensitive. The ESS is the way to go. You'll do fine with the swap. I have been running the SS for over a year and works really well. I will eventually move up to the ESS as well.

Good luck on your swap. Greg is good help over there at Warp.

Cheers.
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  #719  
Old Mon 26 March 2012, 07:07
Surfcnc
Just call me: Ross #74
 
Queensland
Australia
Thanks Travis that sounds like a tick for the new Smoothstepper then.

May I ask as to how it improved or changed the way your CNC machine runs.
Principally I am after easy controller swap outs and maybe use laptops into the future.
Despite this I remain curious about some of the other aspects of using a motion controller.

Regards
Ross
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  #720  
Old Mon 26 March 2012, 07:08
MetalHead
Just call me: Mike
 
Columbiana AL
United States of America
I know folks here are using the Smooth Stepper. Did you order the cables needed to attach it to your BOB?

Missed the Ethernet part of the statement !!

I am interested to see how this works. Time to do some reading .....
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