Doing Some Inlay Work! #69 - Holiday FL USA

[swatkins]

OK.... Simple thing to try..... Switch out the breaker that is tripping for the one that is not tripping... See if the problem continues.

The outcome of that test will tell you a lot

I just noticed you were using 220 ... Which leg is the tripping breaker on? L1 or L2 per your drawing? IS there any load on the second breaker that is not tripping?

[Regnar]

The 12v din rail mountable was cheaper than trying to find a power supply that would work with it already incorporated.

I have already switched out the 2 circuit breaks with same results. I think you might be right and that it doesnt like the inrush.

In the real world I dont think I will be switching the power on and off acouple of times in a row but I dont think it should behave like this either. I can bump up to a 20amp circuit break but reading the specs and seeing the 14 guage wire going into the powersupply I have a feeling it wont be much different results maybe even worse.

L1 is the leg that is tripping. There is only 2 things on that leg and it is the fan and powersupply. L2 has the router and the 12v powersupply. There is really no load as of yet on the L2 except for the 12 powersupply.

The reason I went with circuit breakers in the box is so that I dont have have a possible short and fry all the wire with 30amps. 5 dollar circuit break is much cheaper and less time consuming if 30 amps goes down the wire.


How bright are you guys leds on the pmdx board. Mine are lit but are very faint. Pmdx is powered by 5v by J8 pins 5,6.

Circuit Breaker is a B curve and the data sheet is here http://factorymation.info/Chint/NB1-...itBreakers.pdf

[Gerald D]

Russell, we have 300VA transformers happily starting off B-curve 20 amp breakers.....how many VA is your transformer/power supply?

[Gerald D]

Our PMDX LED's are easily visible (out of direct sunlight), bur we supply 9V AC.

[Regnar]

Gerald I took a look again at the manual and it didnt say anything about VA or how many amps the power supply needs. Here is the PDF. Now going back to the description of the power supply it says. Unregulated Power Supply 1000W, 50VDC/20A , Input: 120VAC or 230VAC. Might need to order a 20amp.

[jhiggins7]

Russell,

VA stands for Volt-Amps. Is is identical to W which stands for Watts. The forumla for Watts is Volts times Amps. So, your transformer specifications are 50 Volts Times 20 Amps = 1000 Volt-Amps or 1000 Watts.

[Gerald D]

Russell, the classic solution to the inrush current of a transformer involves a resistor and a relay.

A resistor is put in one of the input legs of the transformer and that reduces the current. But the resistor would get hot and burn....

So a relay is put in the circuit to bridge out the resistor after a short delay (after the major spike has passed). The time delay of pulling in the relay is normally enough time for the inrush to pass. The relay coil is normally put across the output side of the transformer.

This is covered much better by other guys who have actually done it

[domino11]

There are also special inrush limiters that can now be purchased for this very purpose. They are just put in series with the transformer, when cold they are high resistance, but when powered they warm up and the resistance drops. I have used them before and they work great as long as you do not power up / down rapidly in succession. Here is a list of what is available at Digikey. You would need to pick a value that would work for your application though.

[KenC]

Thermister does has their own set of problems... they fail without warning...more often then we like...

A more reliablke way is Gerald's method.

[Gerald D]

I think that Irfan had this problem and solved it with resistor & relay. Maybe another member as well.

[Regnar]

I was going to try a 20 amp circuit breaker. I asked one of the guys at work to stop by and have a look. He measured the inrush with a clamp meter and it was varied when turning on an off. Sometimes it was 15 amps sometimes it was 11 amps and then of course the tripping of the circuit.

The reason I went with 16 amp circuit breaker for this circuit was because of the wire going into the power supply was 14 gauge. My Co-Worker said that it has 2 power inputs that are 14 gauge and said it is an equivalent of somewhere around a 10 gauge.

Do you guys think this will solve the problem.

I am still trying to find out about the yellow lites on the geckos. I have swapped them to different spots and the problem is still appearing unless the bob is disconnected. I have a email out to gecko just waiting on a reply.

[Regnar]

Well just an update. 20amp solved the problem with the circuit breaker tripping. It must have been the in-surge was just enough to trip the 16amp breaker. Now I can turn it on and off with no problems.

The yellow LED's are not a normal operation kind of thing and well 2 of the drives are off to see their maker. Just waiting to hear what happened.

I had a homer project going on for one of the guys at work and he order 2 gallons of the paint when all it needed was less than a quart. So I have a free paint, but we are not going to be a blue MM. We are going to be Ford Gray. Working with the stuff was actually nice. I used a cheap HVLP sprayer for both the primer and color. The paint is meant to be used on tractors and the finish came out very glossy. Here is a link to where he bought it from just in Ford Blue
http://www.tractorsupply.com/agricul...1-gal--3449512
You will need the hardners and depending on your nozzle tip maybe some thinners.

[Regnar]

Here is a picture of the stuff sprayed on my Cole drill. I had left overs of both the primer and color so I figured it would be nice to give this tool a face lift. The surface is very rough. But the shine is amazing.

[sailfl]

Ryan,

The paint looks good. Does that mean you are going to be waxing the MM once a month?

Hope the Geckos are replaced for free....!!!

[swatkins]

Russell how are you going to route the cables from your control box to your table? Looking at the grabbers on your box I don't see a exit point for all the needed cables...

I will have 8 cables going to the table and was thinking of using a pair of flexible plastic conduits to carry the cables and reduce the number of grabbers on the control box..

PS thanks for the package!

[Regnar]

Steve, I am using the 3/4" grabbers. I am using 1 for all the motor cables and the other one for all the Limit Switches. Then all I need is Estop, 7core, Router.

I could have used less grabbers and just used 3 3/4" grabbers but I wanted to be able to go straight into the box to the relay or controller that it needed to goto.

I dont know what I am going to put all the cables in to the table. I have flex screen and spiral wrap that will be large enough to encase it all. I am also looking at those speed hums that allow you to walk over the cables. Like these http://www.electriduct.com/Drop-Overs_c_76.html

[swatkins]

Where were you able to find your SSR relays? I can't locate the ones you are using. I was working away and noticed that I purchased relays that were rated for DC on the load side instead of AC SO I am working on order # 2 now

[swatkins]

Never mind I found them at Automation Direct.. So I am still officially on my 1st order

[Mike O.]

Russell, Are you powering your pmdx via the Micron power supply? If so, have you verified the actual voltage output? In your video, there appears to be an voltage adj. screw on the front, you may need to turn that screw clockwise to get all avaiable voltage to your pmdx and get those leds to brighten up. Just another thought...

[Regnar]

Mike I am using the 5 volts off of the power supply. I dont know what is up but things are not making sense. The geckos were checked out at the factory and nothing is wrong with them. So now I have to look at the BOB or the Power Supply. Something is just not adding up.

But for now I am stuck in the Bahamas until next Tuesday so no Mechmate for a little bit.

[swatkins]

Yeah , that's really a pain.... Stuck in the Bahamas...

[Regnar]

What a waste of a lot of time.

Basically I have been taking notes all the way through the whole build. This way I shouldn't have had to go back and reread all the directions. Well it has proven worthless for me. After looking at Steve's setup which is almost identical to mine I noticed he ran the power to Pins 1 & 6 of J8. I had to go back and read why he didn't run the power into the "PWR ALT IN" on the pmdx. Well you only use the PWR ALT IN when you have power coming in the Coaxial Jack. So in a sense it is actually a PWR ALT OUT.

So went out and switched the Power coming in to Pin1 and well everything works as advertised. 3 week turn around for the Geckos and 1 week of trying to figure out the problem. What threw me off the most was that 2 of the geckos the whole time acted normal while the other 2 showed the yellow leds.
Owell live and learn.


Ordered the Steel today and it should arrive on Friday. I will try and get a video up later today of the motors spinning.

[swatkins]

At least you have it sorted out....

I found that the 122 has changed over the years and a lot of the information on the old posts is now out dated... The main thing I found different was the references to the BOB needing 9 volts... The new revisions have it working off of 5 volts but it is not really clear in the instructions... I found the information I needed in a information box in the instructions and not on the main instructions as I thought it would be...

Glad yours is all sorted out.

[domino11]

Russell,
Something to watch out for, the 5V input you are using is for a regulated 5v supply of no more than +/- 5% variance. If you use an unregulated supply on that input, you could have dropouts on the low lines and dead components on the high side. Not sure what you had for power supply.

[Regnar]

I have all the motors tuned and running. I still have to read on how to make EMC2 turn on the router but that will come in time.

Today I decided to make the soft jaw for my vise. This will allow me to keep my mill at 90 degrees which is it strongest stance and keep everything in towards the column.

This is the first set of soft jaw that I have made and I can tell you that this will do the job just fine. I clamped up the piece of angle iron that I have mill a few inches. Completely removed the whole piece and clamped it up again. I did this routine 8 times. The scrap piece is going to be worthless once I am done but the rail is going to be spectacular. No indications of steps on the rail. I will use a 6 foot piece of pipe to keep a larger area of rail supported. Well without further ado some pictures.

[sailfl]

Russell,

Way to go on the controller box and starting on the rails. You will be cutting wood soon.

[Regnar]

Thanks Nils. I didnt think I was ever going to get pass the control box.



Took delivery of all the steel today. I was expecting everything to be in 20 ft lengths but a few pieces where 24ft. 24ft wouldn't fit in that garage so it was time to rough cut everything down to size. I have to say I am not a big fan of Abrasive CutOff saws but this Rigid saw is nice. It has a cast iron base and plenty of power. It was a lot nicer to use than the Dewalt at work that has a press steel base and is really under powered. Only used one disk but had to flip the 2" square on the last cut to make it through.

Just to let everyone know. It cost a lot less to buy whole pieces than it was to buy lenghts that I would need. Case in point I only needed a 12ft piece of 4" I beam. This would have cost me 280.00. A full piece "20ft" cost only 204.50. Saved myself almost 80 dollars and he gave me a free cut on it.
The money saved can buy a nice saw.

Steel bought was
1 20ft 8" 15lb stick (I would do 8"x18lbs next time as it would match up better to the 4" Ibeam)
1 20ft 4" 13lb stick
1 24ft 2x4 3/16 stick
3 20ft 3" C channel
5 24ft 2" 14 gauge sticks
2 20ft 2 1/2 1/4 angle

[Travish]

Oooh! Another I-beam design! Looking good! I'll be keeping an eye on your build. Do you have a drawing yet of the table?

Nice clean looking garage!

Be prepared to get some extra motor brushes for your chop saw. I went through allmost 3 sets to cut all my pcs for my table.

[Regnar]

Travis, Yep another Ibeam design. After hearing others have trouble with straightness and squareness of the C channel I decided to go this route. Also John #34 made the machine look really good with ibeams

I have a set of drawing but I am to embarrassed to post them here. Not that they look bad just not my best work.

Thank You for the comment on the garage. You should see it on a good day. I should really give Sams Club the credit though for their great prices on their cabinets and tool boxes.

I am hoping I dont have to use the Cutoff saw much more. This was just to be able to load the pieces up in the truck and use the horizontal and vertical bandsaw at work.

[Regnar]

I have the Relay and Limit Switches working under EMC2. It was nice to see the LED light up on the relay when it was suppose to.

I brought home a smaller pipe from work to finish up my test piece. I can say this is going to make things quick. If anything it will cut down on the grinding time.

More pictures.