Video, Logos and DUST! #87 - Suwanee, GA

[docarter]

Hello everybody,

I've been reading this forum for months. I first like to salute Gerald on this forum and to everyone who share their building experiences and knowledge This is not a forum but a community. It is my goal to build a table 49" X 97" and I plan to share the entire painful experience.

I am out of Atlanta, Georgia and vendor resources are great here. However I am a women, so I am sure I've got other challages. My Budget is $6000.00 and I have already spend to much money to have not started anything I am in the utility business so I am sure I will have resources available to build the structural portion.

I have read almost every entry in this forum and will be going back reviewing several of my journey. I have found a local steel vendor who appears to have the best price in the area and can deliver within 24 hours.

Below outlines what I have already order:

(1) Grinder (I have the patience job. Slow Slow Slow)

(1) SteelSaw (Using to cut down rails w/guide on both sides)

(4) OM PK296A2A-SG7.2 (Received in: 4 Day)

(4) G203V (Standard)

(1) Laser Parts - Joe (Received Next Day He's good!)

(1) Breakout Board (PMDX-122)

(1) Computer (Already Have)

(1) Mach3

I try to organized and hope that everyone who read this will give me feedback.

Gerald, I have organized your drawing by there sub-assembiles (have questions). I will reformat and post.

[Jayson]

Welcome to the community,

I look forward to reading all about your build.
I see no reason that you would experience any challenges different to anyone else here, and I am sure any challenges encountered will be overcome.

Good Luck.

Jayson.

[bradm]

Welcome! Some of the better welders I know are female; you might just have an advantage.

As I have a rather, "compact" frame, I found one of the more interesting and satisfying aspects of my build to be using brains rather than brawn to deal with some of the material handling and moving challenges.

I'm sure you'll do just fine, and have a great time along the way.

[docarter]

Gerald, I have reorganized your drawing by sub-assemblies and I can not find any drawings labeled 50-ToolHolder in your new released.

I also have the questions on the steel:
1. Would like to use 3X2X1/4 where C3 are outlined.
2. Would like to use 3x3x1/4 as post.

I am in the process of bill a material list and would to make some changes.

[Rad Racer]

Welcome, I look forward to your build. Be sure to give a shout if you hit a snag.....there are many excellent builders on this site that are always willing to help.

Remember to stop and take a few photo's from time to time.

Good luck.

[Gerald D]

Welcome Ladieswork. You have caught me at a bad time to check on alternative steel etc. - I am off to Malaysia in a few hours time and I won't have access to my reference books and drawings for a week.

[Gerald D]

Originally Posted by docarter

I can not find any drawings labeled 50-ToolHolder in your new released.

I also have the questions on the steel:
1. Would like to use 3X2X1/4 where C3 are outlined.
2. Would like to use 3x3x1/4 as post.

I have never published drawings for 50-Toolholders. I am not familiar with the tools in use over there.

What is "C3"? I don't know the term and I can't remember using it on a drawing. Maybe my old age is catching up . . . . .

"3x3x1/4 as post" If you are talking of the vertical legs, then 3x3x1/4" angle iron will work. 3x3x1/4" square tube will also work. Don't know which section you are talking about?

[docarter]

I also like to thanks everyone who responded wishing me luck, I'm going to need it.

Gerald,

I have been shopping around for surplus steel since my last posting. Even though we are in a recession here, high rise construction is still going on. So I decided to drive to a couple of sites and ask if they have any surplus steel. What a good idea this turn out to be I was able to found enough steel to complete the base table and gantry. Some of the items are not the same as your drawing (larger), but will work. My total cost for steel is $135.75 and I had to pick it up. With the use of a company vehicle I'm in business.

Will do a drawing tonight and try to post it tomorrow.

I've ordered some additional items.
Superior Steel (Mechmate Kit) from Rick:
GW3X = $14.49ea @ 14pcs = $202.86
B3X = $2.91ea @ 6pcs = $17.46
Shipping by UPS Ground to 30024 Residential = $11.86
Total = $232.18

Milwaukee 5625-20 -ebay $225.00
Router Mount - ebay $60.00

I'm also going to complete my calculation tonight so I can start my kitchen project.

I traded my programming skill with a friend for some licensed welding services He was laid off and now is working for himself. So I will build him a web page with paypal, email and private customer areas.

I think I am going to be busy this weekend.

[Jay W]

Good to see another Atlantan joining in the Mechmate addiction. Welcome and looking forward to your build.

Jay

[blurrycustoms]

Sounds like you have all the drive you will need to complete this project within your budget goals, especially in taking the time to shop around for surplus steel and such. I don't expect that you will meet any challenges that you can't overcome. Good luck on your build.

[Fronzel]

I'm in Atlanta too.

I got the parts from Joe. My next step is getting a welding machine, I've not even looked to see where I can get steel.

I didn't think about visiting construction sites for cut offs. That is a good idea.

[docarter]

Thanks for the support guys, I'm glad to know that I have some local help. I'm very excited to get started. I'm sure that sounds crazy coming from a women, but I need this machine to have the freedom to prototype my design ideas. I know I said that I traded skills for welding, but my husband wants to complete all of the welding himself He is more excited than me, I believe he has his own plans This is going to be interesting.

I'm in the process of making room in our basement for this project. My entire basement is pack with tools and I need my garage for cars. Our basement ceiling height is 9' and it has a large walk out. I will start posting pictures of everything purchased in the morning as I relocate them.

[docarter]

Okay, I finally found my camera cord so that I can begin to add pictures. I have read almost this entire forum and one thing that really concerned my was the rails. As a result, I went ebay shopping for a metal saw & grinder. I found the following:

New SteelSaw 7" @ $140.00 including shipping

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New Grinder @ $40.00

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[docarter]

It is raining here, so I think I'm going to waiting on start the table. I have received my package from Joe. His service was next day and the part are excellent. I also received my package from Rick @ superior bearing. Rick's service was excellent as well and quick. This forum has great responses, but it is alot of reading.

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[Gerald D]

Hi Ladieswork, (how about a simpler name? )

To attach a picture inside the post, use the paperclip icon.

[docarter]

Gerald.

I had not idea where my name and location would appear. Nevertheless, with testing correction has been made. I use the paperclip, but I did not see it visual so I dragged it into the screen. Functionality learned, I will just use the preview post before I post. Sorry, I'm eager to get this thing cutting.

I was going to purchase locally a control box, but I still have a question. What size box do you recommend? I plan to attach the box to the machine. I also like to have a box size that has growth for another axis.

[Gerald D]

Hi Donna

Have used the icon on your earlier pics and centered them for you.

For a 5-drive box, you need about 22" tall, 18" wide, 8" deep. With dust gasketed door

[docarter]

Gerald,
I got the box, with the following size (24x16x12). I'm investigating making a change to my panel to allow for a simply sub panel upgrade (adding functionality). I don’t plan on spending much time on this. However, I've being reviewing (again) some of the other built histories to acquire lessons learned.
In that processed, I realized that I did not mention anything about my skill level. I'm an application engineer w/ISO 9000/2000 certification. I work for our local electrical company, but my skills level is computer design.
Question:
After some more reading, I’m in question of what your recommendation are for the power supply. It appears that your requirements may have changed. I’ve not decided what wiring method I plan to use. You and Mike have made several recommendations that I just want to make sure. I plan on obtaining this locally or maybe building this for cost reason (free materials).
What are your recommendations for a power supply with the following components?
Oriental Motors - PK296A2A-SG7.2
Gecko Controllers – G203V (Standard)
Breakout Board - PMDX-122

[Gerald D]

Hi Donna

My personal approach to a power supply for that choice of motors/geckos/PMDX is to build my own supply with a transformer, rectifier and diode. I am not impressed by the ready-built supplies available in your market, though I might suggest them from time to time for someone who is unsure about their ability to connect a transformer to a rectifier and capacitor. Seems like you will be comfortable to build your own?

I use a 300VA transformer at 28 to 30VAC output. Many others will use a bigger 500VA transformer instead - not much more expensive. Mike recommends around 24V, he likes cooler motors - I like the extra torque from the warmer motors.

We have the luxury of getting transformers made to order. We have another small coil put on the transformer for the 9V AC output to the PMDX. However, it is very simple to add that coil to the transformer yourself. This DIY extra coil has appeared in MM'ers photos without incident or discussion.

Too many words have been written on the power supply issue - it is a simpler subject than what it appears to be.

[Richards]

The PK296A2A-SGxx motor has a triple personality. If you look closely at the data sheets for the PK296-03A and the PK296-F4.5 motors, you will notice that all three have identical electrical specs (unipolar). You will also note that the PK296A2A-SGxx motor is rated at 3A while the other two motors are rated at 4.5A That is probably because of the gearbox. The SG7.2 gearbox is limited to about 700 oz*in of holding torque, but the motor, if attached to a huge gearbox, could produce about 2,000 oz*in of torque (at 7.2:1).

What I'm getting at is that the 32 X SQRT(Inductance) formula that Marris published for determining the maximum voltage expects that we're going to push the motors as hard as we can, but driving a motor at 3A instead of at 4.5A means that it will run much cooler.

It took awhile before I finally looked at the data sheet and noticed the electrical specs for the motors. When I hooked my PK296B2A-SG3.6 motors up to a 40VDC power supply, I got cooler temperatures than I had expected, especially when I compared that motor to other motors that I tested at their maximum computed voltages. The secret seems to be the Amp rating. At 3A, the geared motors are not being pushed nearly as hard as similar motors that are allowed to pull 4.5A.

To me, that is an excellent feature. The 7.2:1 motors are reported to have plenty of torque, plenty of speed, plenty of accuracy (resolution) and as an added bonus, they run cooler - so they should last far longer than motors that are pushed to their (temperature) limit.

Like Gerald said, building a power supply is "a simpler subject than it appears to be." A low cost toroidal transformer, a bridge rectifier and some snap caps are all the pieces that are required. Anyone should be able to bore some holes with a spade bit in a piece of scrap MDF or plywood to hold three or four snap caps wired in parallel. So for $50 to $75 you could easily have a very reliable power supply.

(For a 40VDC power supply, get caps that are rated at least 50V. 63V would be better. Snap caps pack a lot of capacitance in a small package. It's not too hard to find some rated from 6,000uF to 10,000uF. You add the capacitance of all capacitors when you wire the caps in parallel, so, three or four caps should be adequate. You'll want to have at least 15,000uF to power four PK296A2A-SGxx motors. 25,000uF would be even better. I've had a lot of trouble finding good quality large caps with screw terminals. Most of the large "can type" caps with screw terminals that I have looked at recently had build dates going back to the 1970s and 1980s. Caps dry out over time. I don't like to install caps that are more than 5yrs old into new equipment.)

[docarter]

Guys, I think I'm going to build my own. I know I can found local help at work/home if needed. I also have the equipment to test almost anything electrical.

Wish me luck, Thanks!

[Gerald D]

Donna, don't rely too much on luck. If you are nervous, send us some pics before you switch it ON.

[jhiggins7]

Donna,

I built my own power supplies. In my case I used a 400 VA (cost $$44) for the main power supply and a 20 VA (cost $11) for a low voltage power supply. I bought my transformers from Antek. I also wanted dual voltages. For the small power supply I generate 12 VDC (for PMDX) and 24 VDC (for low voltage control of the stop circuit, router, etc).

Jon at Antek was very helpful. He provided a circuit diagram for the dual voltage power supply.

I got 4 10,000 MF 100 V capacitors for about $10 each, including shipping, from Asia via Ebay.

I haven't noted any heat being generated by the transformers. But, I'm not in full operation yet.

You can see pictures on my thread if you'd like.

I'll be glad to help.

Regards,
John

[docarter]

Thanks John, I may need to ask you some question. I spoke with some of my co-workers and they all believe that this is going to be a very easy task (just a different application). They also gave me the number to our company investment recovery group.

I spoke with them and they have a lot of things I can use for the project Today, I picked up a silm steel cabinet for $5.00. This thing is very heavy. It will house a flat panel monitor, computer and the control box.

It finally stopped raining, so I know I'll be cutting this weekend. I elected to purchase the following: Main Beam and Rails from a local steel company. This table is going to be very beefy. I plan to only use 6 cross bearing. I need to complete my plans so that Gerald can give it his blessing.

[jhiggins7]

Donna,

Got your E-Mail. Happy to share my experiences.

I built two power supplies. I used a 400 VA toroidal transformer ($44) for the main power supply and a 20 VA toroidal transformer ($11) for a dual low voltage power supply (12 VDC for PMDX-122 & 24 VDC for the E-Stop Circuit and Router, etc. Contactors ). I got both toroidal transformers from Antek. Jon at Antek was very helpful including sending me a circuit design for the dual voltage power supply.

I shared a schematic of the Control Circuit that I used here.

My Control Box layout is shown here.

I bought four 10,000 MF 100 volt capacitors from Asia via Ebay for about $10 each including shipping.

I followed the experience of others on the forum and placed an order for DIN rail, connector blocks, main contactor, safety interlock switch, power on-off switch, etc. from FactoryMation. I got the plastic duct from a local supplier for about $20 including taxes.

Since I decided to use Contactors rather than SSR's to turn on and off the router, dust collector and vacuum hold-down, I purchased 3 surplus 24 VDC Contactors for about $4 each. If you decide to go with Contactors, I can point you to the supplier I used.

I placed 3 or 4 other orders with Internet suppliers for 5 volt relays, 24 volt relay, small electrolytic capacitors, two sizes of bridge rectifiers, perforated circuit boards, terminal blocks, etc.

I had some parts like the transistors for the relay control board and the fan to cool the Gecko's on-hand.

Regards,
John

[jhiggins7]

Donna,

I thought of another item that might help. I added an Electronics Order Spreadsheet to my thread here. Wanted to keep everything together and not clutter your thread.

Happy building!

Regards,
John

[docarter]

John, sorry it has taken me so long to response, I had some personal issues that needed my attention (those kids). My two sons are grown but they still need guidance. They found out this week that they will have a part time job soon Now I am on vacation for 4 days, so I plan to work on my MM the whole time.

I really appreciate you adding the 2 links because I could have trouble putting it all together. Now it made sense and I should not have much trouble. What you added today was a bonus. I am sure there people other than me will found this helpful. I have taken David Moore’s excel sheet I found on this web site and edited for my build. I'm also making a building manual that includes everything in one place.

I have already ordered several parts and plan to pick up some locally this weekend. I also found some good web sites that I will share. I will be sharing picture soon, just want to get a little further.

[docarter]

Hello everyone, wanted to give everyone an update of my progress. I work for our local utility company and we are currently experiencing some bad weather. Check out the news, it has been like this for weeks. Bad weather means no fun (MM) for me. However, during my time off, I was able to gather several components for my control system and cut some steel (lower part of the table). Elected to wait to purchase the power supplies until I have purchased all of the components. I plan to stay within my budget and have a high quality ending product. This is my ISO 2008/programmer (analytical) side of my brain. I can not justify purchasing something that I'm NOT comfortable with. This means I need to do some research.

I have made another visit to our investment recovery group looking for parts. The steel from them is $0.10 a pound and I still need a main beam. This is like a weekly yard sale; one company's trash is another company's treasure. I purchased 4 industrial strength alum 4x4x1/4 post; I thought I could use them as table legs. They are heavier than the channel defined in the plan and are already threaded. I have emailed our design group and they are going to follow up with the specs.

Gerald,
What are your thoughts about using this as table legs? I will follow up with a picture, they already have welded brackets for a lathe support.

I have elected to be cheap (budget constraints) and wait. With our weather the part be become available; just looking for a straighter member.

[Gerald D]

The legs serve 2 main purposes . . . .

- The no-brainer purpose is to elevate the table off the floor. For that, even a 2x4 plank will do.

- But the second function is to stiffen the main beams from toppling over. Here the legs work in conjunction with the table cross-support beams 1010302, as well as vertical bearers 1010314. When taking cuts in the y-direction, there are forces which tend to topple the tops of the main beams in the y-direction. Not that there is a real risk of them ever falling over, but there is the risk of resonant vibrations reflected back as tool chatter marks on the job.

The tables I have built so far have always had the legs and vertical bearers welded to the main beams. The two tables in operation have the cross-supports welded as well. Within a few weeks we will have a table running with bolted cross-supports, but still with welded frames 1010310. So, I cannot personally vouch for the stiffness of an all-bolted construction, and more so if the bolting is to relatively flexible aluminium. My gut feel is that it would work, but I am nervous to state flat out that it is going to be good. (Those heavy main beams seam to vibrate all the same, irrespective of how I fixed them so far)

[JD68]

Donna,

I live about 30 minutes away and your build caught my eye.

I am anxious to get an update!

Continued good progress on your build.

JD