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  #1  
Old Mon 08 October 2007, 08:53
Hugo Carradini
Just call me: Hugo
 
Pto. Ordaz
Venezuela
Upgraded Mach, now the motors won't turn - Different ports/pins for later Mach

Hello Gerald an friends.
Last week I reset Widows XP(eliminating all the possibilities of hidden bugs and strange programs) and reinstalled it again with no other program except a newer version of Mach3 1.94
Start making the regular settings, checked the "bullet test" and no noise, so everything look nice in the screen.
Turn on the main power and push the start buton...... and first surprise, could not hear the motors lock. Start jogging and second surprise....motors wont move. Start running a G-code program and router started, leads on the parallel card look OK, current in an out of the different system was OK, motors where lock(could not move by hand the gantry) but they would not move and I can feel them getting warm. Checked everything again and the problem persist, so I decide to ask in the Mach support forum but forgot my user name and they haven't send yet my user name so I cant post in the forum and in the mean time am anxious to get back to normality.
¿Any Idea off something I have to check?
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  #2  
Old Mon 08 October 2007, 13:59
Hugo Carradini
Just call me: Hugo
 
Pto. Ordaz
Venezuela
Gerald I hope I am not breaking the rules of the forum with these Mach3 problems, but I cant ask them yet. One question ¿Does vampires work with Dir and Step low signal inputs enabled?
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  #3  
Old Mon 08 October 2007, 14:49
Richards
Just call me: Mike
 
South Jordan, UT
United States of America
For the G203v stepper drivers, you must have the COMMON connected to DC GROUND. (The G202 and G201 stepper drivers have the COMMON connected to 5VDC.) Also, depending on your break-out board, you may have to change some jumpers to get the correct signals routed to the G203v drivers. (On my PMDX-122 cards, I only have to change one jumper when I change from G202 drivers to G203 drivers.)
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  #4  
Old Mon 08 October 2007, 15:01
Hugo Carradini
Just call me: Hugo
 
Pto. Ordaz
Venezuela
Thanks Richard. I think the problem is that I did not enable the low signal in step and dir. I have my machine an hour from my house, so I am going to drive there and check that. I don't know why I did not notice that before.
Thanks for your coments.
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  #5  
Old Tue 09 October 2007, 03:50
garyc
Just call me: Garyc
 
Charlotte, North Carolina
United States of America
Hugo terminal #10 must be connected to a ground of your breakout board, this was something I ran into when I hooked mine up, do not connect it to your power supply ground. This is how the vampires reference the signal, Your power supply ground gets connected to terminal #1
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  #6  
Old Tue 09 October 2007, 07:18
Richards
Just call me: Mike
 
South Jordan, UT
United States of America
Gary, thanks for clearing that up. Each power supply (i.e. 5VDC, 24VDC, 70VDC) must have a DC ground from which the high voltage is referenced. With a break out board, that 5VDC power supply might be generated by the break out board itself (the PMDX-122 for example). In that case, the ground signal for the V203v stepper drivers would have to come directly from the break out board.

Mariss suggests tying all of the various grounds together at a chassis ground point so that the actual case is at ground potential. I've had a hard time accepting that practice because I learned my stuff from a different school that insisted that chassis ground and circuit ground were two different things and that they should never be mixed together. HOWEVER, Mariss is correct in that ALL PC power supplies sold world wide connect signal ground to case ground AND by connecting all grounds together, many of the unexplainable problems disappear. I got caught on this very issue a few weeks ago when I connected a Gecko G203v, power supply and motor to my Shopbot Alpha-PRT to be used as an indexer. I 'floated' my power supply's ground without connecting it to the Shopbot ground, thinking that the opto-isolators on the G203v should be 'isolated' from all other electronic signals. Well, that didn't work. The Shopbot kept seeing an Alpha motor fault signal - even though that signal line was not connected. As soon as I tied the grounds together, everything worked perfectly. (I don't like it, but I'm certainly not going to take the time to layout a new controller board for my Shopbot just because I disagree with their circuit designer.)

So, bottom line best practices is to connect the - (minus) side of the capacitor feeding the stepper motor power to chassis ground and then to also connect the ground signal from any other DC power supply used to that same chassis ground point. Since the green/yellow ground wire from the AC power will also be tied to that chassis ground point, everything will be properly grounded. If you're using DIN terminal blocks, just use the Green/Yellow grounding blocks that automatically pass any signal to which they are wired directly to the metal DIN rail (assuming that the DIN rail is making good electrical contact to the metal chassis). Also, if you're using shielded cable be sure to connect ONE END of the drain wire to chassis ground. DO NOT connect the other end of the drain wire to another ground point. That could cause a ground loop which would cause things to not work properly. Just remember to tie all ground signals to the same bolt stud in a star pattern and everything will be properly grounded. (When I use a DIN rail and grounding terminal blocks, I insert all of the grounding blocks so that they are all adjacent to each other on the DIN rail and then I also run a heavy ground wire from one of the terminal blocks to the grounding stud on the metal case. That grounding stud is usually just a few inches away from the DIN rail - so creating a ground loop would not be an issue.)
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  #7  
Old Tue 09 October 2007, 08:37
Hugo Carradini
Just call me: Hugo
 
Pto. Ordaz
Venezuela
Thank guys.
Back from the shop and the problem keeps the same.
Let me remember my friends that I made my kitchen homework and then I install the system and everything run properly. I run the machine few times with no problem.The problem started when I reinstall Windows XP and Mach3 2.48 . I am having problems in the area with electricity coming in at 110 volts, but I don't think that is the problem. I will recheck the ground installation. I run my test driver and no problem, and when I run a G-Code program , router will start and shut normally and the LEDs in the parallel port card dance nicely. Something to report is that if I close the Mach program and close the computer, not the control box, all 4 motors start softly vibrating .
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  #8  
Old Tue 09 October 2007, 09:44
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Mariss Freimanis published the attached troubleshooter this morning. It might help you.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf G203V MOTOR WON'T TURN troubleshooting.pdf (89.0 KB, 32 views)
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  #9  
Old Tue 09 October 2007, 10:51
Hugo Carradini
Just call me: Hugo
 
Pto. Ordaz
Venezuela
Thanks Gerald.
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  #10  
Old Fri 12 October 2007, 09:41
Hugo Carradini
Just call me: Hugo
 
Pto. Ordaz
Venezuela
Hello Gerald and friends.
I was checking the Mariss troubleshooter
I need to understand the meaning of certain concepts.
¿What means Jog CW and jog CCW? ¿Is it Jogging Right and left?
¿What is the "controller" and how could I checked if it is set correctly?¿Is It the Mach driver?
Thanks for the help and I am sure we will be out of intensive therapy soon and stronger then ever.
Attached Images
File Type: gif Problema.GIF (31.4 KB, 94 views)
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  #11  
Old Fri 12 October 2007, 10:15
Bill McGuire
Just call me: Bill
 
Weiser, Idaho
United States of America
Hugo...
Sorry for your problems..
CW means clockwise, CCW is coounterclockwise (rotate the motor shafts in both directions).

Also, if you still believe the software might be the problem, you might have to delete the files on your computer or do a "Clean" install to erase the old information when reinstalling.

Sometimes reinstalling the system or programs will give you an updated version (fix a glitch), but may just still just use the operations which were previously used in the program. Therefore, if the problem was in the "saved" instructions, it may just still use those instructions.
Hope this does not confuse you more than help...
Bill McGuire
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  #12  
Old Fri 12 October 2007, 10:31
Hugo Carradini
Just call me: Hugo
 
Pto. Ordaz
Venezuela
Thanks Bill.
The good thin of all this is that I am learning more that if I had the machine OK.
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  #13  
Old Mon 15 October 2007, 11:13
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Posted by Hugo in the CNCzone forum:

Hello guys.
I finished a MechMate table, used it for a while with excellent results and after few days I decided to install a new computer and a new Mach3 V2.48 . After that I have not been able to make my motors move and I think is a problem in my control box and need help, cause I don't have electronic experience. Before I change my computer, I remember that I close Mach program and the computer, but forgot to shut down the main electricity to the control box. When this happens the motors started vibrating and making a lot of noise just the time I need to react and shut the current. This happened a couple of times. I also remember that when I turned on Mach3 and then the control box I could listen the motors engaging. Now I know they engage because cant make them move but there is no sound. I even tried to do the same error that I made before (closing the computer and Mach) and now they will vibrate very slightly and I think that this is where the problem is around and I hope I dint ruin the break board. I am using 4 G230V, PMDX-122 card , PMDX-135-8020 preparation module an 4 PK296A1A-SG7.2 motor. Other point that can help is that I can control my router from the computer and if I run a G-code program it will start and close my router normally so I just want to know what type of values I have to start measuring to get my baby beast running again.
I hope you guys can help me see some light at the end of the tunnel.
Thanks in advance and hope no to be in the
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  #14  
Old Mon 15 October 2007, 11:23
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo View Post
. . . install a new computer and a new Mach3 V2.48 . After that I have not been able to make my motors move . . .
This is the first news of a new computer. Suggest you try your old computer again. Your two computers may have different grounding systems. Did you plug both computers into the same mains outlet?

Remember that you must not connect the ground of the PMDX-122 to the main ground point of the control box.

Also, see Fabrica's experience here.
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  #15  
Old Mon 15 October 2007, 16:08
Hugo Carradini
Just call me: Hugo
 
Pto. Ordaz
Venezuela
Hello Gerald. I am glad to know that you are fallowing the illness of the baby beast.
I just receive this from Hood in the Mach support forum because he wants the xml file "What profile do you use for Mach? Do you just start by clicking on the Mach3Mill icon? If yes then look for Mach3Mill.xml, you will have to copy it to another location then rename it to something else, Hugo.xml for example. You can then attach it to a post by using the additional options button. If you don't rename it you wont be able to attach it as someone else in the past will have attached Mach3Mill.xml and the forum will only allow one example of each.

These is going to be a little slow because I got my Machine 45 minutes from home . Will keep in touch with progress.
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  #16  
Old Mon 15 October 2007, 16:11
Hugo Carradini
Just call me: Hugo
 
Pto. Ordaz
Venezuela
[QUOTE=Gerald D;5538]This is the first news of a new computer. Suggest you try your old computer again. Your two computers may have different grounding systems. Did you plug both computers into the same mains outlet?

No I did not
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  #17  
Old Mon 15 October 2007, 21:06
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
The questions that I have asked are for finding "ground loops" or interference caused by bad grounding systems. In your new workshop, there may be problems with the electrical power points (the mains outlets) and there can be differences between them. The best is to connect the computer and your control box to the same mains outlet (power point).

In the photo below you see a ground wire from the PMDX to the main control box ground. That is a mistake - the PMDX-122 must not be grounded to the control box because it is grounded to the computer via the "printer" cable.

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  #18  
Old Tue 23 October 2007, 15:44
Hugo Carradini
Just call me: Hugo
 
Pto. Ordaz
Venezuela
Hello Gerald and friends.
The baby beast is almost cured. She rock and roll a little this afternoon
I feel like a foul, but the problem was that I inverted the step and dir inputs when I reinstall Mach3. Insted of setting 3-2 5-4 7-6 9-8 I put 2-3 4-5 6-7 8-9. I don't know why I end up with that combination. The only problem now Is that I cannot make the motor for axis Y move. The other three motors run nicely.
¿Any idea?
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  #19  
Old Tue 23 October 2007, 22:47
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Hugo, don't feel like a fool. That same problem also caught me, and a lot of other people. Mach changed the "wiring" from an older version of their software (I think it happened between Mach2 and Mach3?).
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  #20  
Old Thu 25 October 2007, 11:45
Hugo Carradini
Just call me: Hugo
 
Pto. Ordaz
Venezuela
Hello Gerald and friends.
Baby beast is back again. The problem with the motor that would not move was easily fixed. I take the cables from the Geckos and the breakboard and put them back again and tight them carefully and, rrruunnnn , started moving nicely again.
¿What I learned with this experience and want to share with the newbies?
1- Most of us are so in a hurry to see the beast working that don't give the importance and take the necessary time to read all the manuals carefully and people like me , that don't have electronics experience, necessary have to take extra time to understand the basics. (After that you will feel with a lot of confidence with your machine)
2- We read that the cables have to be handled carefully and checking the correct contact with the wire and the screw, but we don't realize how important this is. Stadistics says these is the mayor problem.
3- And the most important part: Be sure that your control box is organize in a way that you can handle the cables easily for revisions. (My control box is nice looking , but every thing is so compact that is a pain in the........... to reinsert those little cables) My next control box will be done thinking in this fact)
Any way, for those that got nervous thinking they could run with with similar problems , forget it, this machine is a carefully well designed project, just try to keep it as similar as possible to the original blue beast MECHMATE and you will end up with a nice machine.
Thanks Gerald for such a great opportunity and thanks for the rest of the good friends that take their time and knowledge to help fix the unexpected problems, that people like me get in the way.
Hugo Carradini, a happy owner of a MECHMATE
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