The baby beast is cutting away - Peurto Ordaz, Venezuela

[Richards]

Gary, thanks for clearing that up. Each power supply (i.e. 5VDC, 24VDC, 70VDC) must have a DC ground from which the high voltage is referenced. With a break out board, that 5VDC power supply might be generated by the break out board itself (the PMDX-122 for example). In that case, the ground signal for the V203v stepper drivers would have to come directly from the break out board.

Mariss suggests tying all of the various grounds together at a chassis ground point so that the actual case is at ground potential. I've had a hard time accepting that practice because I learned my stuff from a different school that insisted that chassis ground and circuit ground were two different things and that they should never be mixed together. HOWEVER, Mariss is correct in that ALL PC power supplies sold world wide connect signal ground to case ground AND by connecting all grounds together, many of the unexplainable problems disappear. I got caught on this very issue a few weeks ago when I connected a Gecko G203v, power supply and motor to my Shopbot Alpha-PRT to be used as an indexer. I 'floated' my power supply's ground without connecting it to the Shopbot ground, thinking that the opto-isolators on the G203v should be 'isolated' from all other electronic signals. Well, that didn't work. The Shopbot kept seeing an Alpha motor fault signal - even though that signal line was not connected. As soon as I tied the grounds together, everything worked perfectly. (I don't like it, but I'm certainly not going to take the time to layout a new controller board for my Shopbot just because I disagree with their circuit designer.)

So, bottom line best practices is to connect the - (minus) side of the capacitor feeding the stepper motor power to chassis ground and then to also connect the ground signal from any other DC power supply used to that same chassis ground point. Since the green/yellow ground wire from the AC power will also be tied to that chassis ground point, everything will be properly grounded. If you're using DIN terminal blocks, just use the Green/Yellow grounding blocks that automatically pass any signal to which they are wired directly to the metal DIN rail (assuming that the DIN rail is making good electrical contact to the metal chassis). Also, if you're using shielded cable be sure to connect ONE END of the drain wire to chassis ground. DO NOT connect the other end of the drain wire to another ground point. That could cause a ground loop which would cause things to not work properly. Just remember to tie all ground signals to the same bolt stud in a star pattern and everything will be properly grounded. (When I use a DIN rail and grounding terminal blocks, I insert all of the grounding blocks so that they are all adjacent to each other on the DIN rail and then I also run a heavy ground wire from one of the terminal blocks to the grounding stud on the metal case. That grounding stud is usually just a few inches away from the DIN rail - so creating a ground loop would not be an issue.)

[Hugo Carradini]

Thank guys.
Back from the shop and the problem keeps the same.
Let me remember my friends that I made my kitchen homework and then I install the system and everything run properly. I run the machine few times with no problem.The problem started when I reinstall Windows XP and Mach3 2.48 . I am having problems in the area with electricity coming in at 110 volts, but I don't think that is the problem. I will recheck the ground installation. I run my test driver and no problem, and when I run a G-Code program , router will start and shut normally and the LEDs in the parallel port card dance nicely. Something to report is that if I close the Mach program and close the computer, not the control box, all 4 motors start softly vibrating .

[Gerald D]

Mariss Freimanis published the attached troubleshooter this morning. It might help you.

[Hugo Carradini]

Thanks Gerald.

[Hugo Carradini]

Hello Gerald and friends.
I was checking the Mariss troubleshooter
I need to understand the meaning of certain concepts.
¿What means Jog CW and jog CCW? ¿Is it Jogging Right and left?
¿What is the "controller" and how could I checked if it is set correctly?¿Is It the Mach driver?
Thanks for the help and I am sure we will be out of intensive therapy soon and stronger then ever.

[Bill McGuire]

Hugo...
Sorry for your problems..
CW means clockwise, CCW is coounterclockwise (rotate the motor shafts in both directions).

Also, if you still believe the software might be the problem, you might have to delete the files on your computer or do a "Clean" install to erase the old information when reinstalling.

Sometimes reinstalling the system or programs will give you an updated version (fix a glitch), but may just still just use the operations which were previously used in the program. Therefore, if the problem was in the "saved" instructions, it may just still use those instructions.
Hope this does not confuse you more than help...
Bill McGuire

[Hugo Carradini]

Thanks Bill.
The good thin of all this is that I am learning more that if I had the machine OK.

[Gerald D]

Posted by Hugo in the CNCzone forum:

Hello guys.
I finished a MechMate table, used it for a while with excellent results and after few days I decided to install a new computer and a new Mach3 V2.48 . After that I have not been able to make my motors move and I think is a problem in my control box and need help, cause I don't have electronic experience. Before I change my computer, I remember that I close Mach program and the computer, but forgot to shut down the main electricity to the control box. When this happens the motors started vibrating and making a lot of noise just the time I need to react and shut the current. This happened a couple of times. I also remember that when I turned on Mach3 and then the control box I could listen the motors engaging. Now I know they engage because cant make them move but there is no sound. I even tried to do the same error that I made before (closing the computer and Mach) and now they will vibrate very slightly and I think that this is where the problem is around and I hope I dint ruin the break board. I am using 4 G230V, PMDX-122 card , PMDX-135-8020 preparation module an 4 PK296A1A-SG7.2 motor. Other point that can help is that I can control my router from the computer and if I run a G-code program it will start and close my router normally so I just want to know what type of values I have to start measuring to get my baby beast running again.
I hope you guys can help me see some light at the end of the tunnel.
Thanks in advance and hope no to be in the

[Gerald D]

Originally Posted by Hugo

. . . install a new computer and a new Mach3 V2.48 . After that I have not been able to make my motors move . . .

This is the first news of a new computer. Suggest you try your old computer again. Your two computers may have different grounding systems. Did you plug both computers into the same mains outlet?

Remember that you must not connect the ground of the PMDX-122 to the main ground point of the control box.

Also, see Fabrica's experience here.

I bought a time delay relay rated for 60 seconds and 10 amps.

When I turn on the PC, the 5 volts from the PC power the relay,

the relay turns on power to the geckos.

Dave

[Hugo Carradini]

Hello Gerald. I am glad to know that you are fallowing the illness of the baby beast.
I just receive this from Hood in the Mach support forum because he wants the xml file "What profile do you use for Mach? Do you just start by clicking on the Mach3Mill icon? If yes then look for Mach3Mill.xml, you will have to copy it to another location then rename it to something else, Hugo.xml for example. You can then attach it to a post by using the additional options button. If you don't rename it you wont be able to attach it as someone else in the past will have attached Mach3Mill.xml and the forum will only allow one example of each.

These is going to be a little slow because I got my Machine 45 minutes from home . Will keep in touch with progress.

[Hugo Carradini]

[QUOTE=Gerald D;5538]This is the first news of a new computer. Suggest you try your old computer again. Your two computers may have different grounding systems. Did you plug both computers into the same mains outlet?

No I did not

[Gerald D]

The questions that I have asked are for finding "ground loops" or interference caused by bad grounding systems. In your new workshop, there may be problems with the electrical power points (the mains outlets) and there can be differences between them. The best is to connect the computer and your control box to the same mains outlet (power point).

In the photo below you see a ground wire from the PMDX to the main control box ground. That is a mistake - the PMDX-122 must not be grounded to the control box because it is grounded to the computer via the "printer" cable.

[Hugo Carradini]

Hello Gerald and friends.
The baby beast is almost cured. She rock and roll a little this afternoon
I feel like a foul, but the problem was that I inverted the step and dir inputs when I reinstall Mach3. Insted of setting 3-2 5-4 7-6 9-8 I put 2-3 4-5 6-7 8-9. I don't know why I end up with that combination. The only problem now Is that I cannot make the motor for axis Y move. The other three motors run nicely.
¿Any idea?

[Gerald D]

Hugo, don't feel like a fool. That same problem also caught me, and a lot of other people. Mach changed the "wiring" from an older version of their software (I think it happened between Mach2 and Mach3?).

[Hugo Carradini]

Hello Gerald and friends.
Baby beast is back again. The problem with the motor that would not move was easily fixed. I take the cables from the Geckos and the breakboard and put them back again and tight them carefully and, rrruunnnn , started moving nicely again.
¿What I learned with this experience and want to share with the newbies?
1- Most of us are so in a hurry to see the beast working that don't give the importance and take the necessary time to read all the manuals carefully and people like me , that don't have electronics experience, necessary have to take extra time to understand the basics. (After that you will feel with a lot of confidence with your machine)
2- We read that the cables have to be handled carefully and checking the correct contact with the wire and the screw, but we don't realize how important this is. Stadistics says these is the mayor problem.
3- And the most important part: Be sure that your control box is organize in a way that you can handle the cables easily for revisions. (My control box is nice looking , but every thing is so compact that is a pain in the........... to reinsert those little cables) My next control box will be done thinking in this fact)
Any way, for those that got nervous thinking they could run with with similar problems , forget it, this machine is a carefully well designed project, just try to keep it as similar as possible to the original blue beast MECHMATE and you will end up with a nice machine.
Thanks Gerald for such a great opportunity and thanks for the rest of the good friends that take their time and knowledge to help fix the unexpected problems, that people like me get in the way.
Hugo Carradini, a happy owner of a MECHMATE

[gmessler]

Congrats Hugo!!
Good luck with your new machine.

[Doug_Ford]

I knew you'd figure it out eventually. Thanks for telling us what the problem was and for sharing the tips.

[PatM]

Your's was an understandable oversight. If you want foolish mistakes, read this transcript!

http://www.kzconsulting.info/wordperfect_support.htm

Beautiful machine you made there.

[Hugo Carradini]

It looks like a MechMate, it cuts like a MechMate, it weights like a MechMate so it is a MECHMATE Beast.
Just kidding Gerald, you are right. I have being so aborted watching these baby learning to move that I had not got the time to have the decals done.
Guys thanks for your commentaries.
To the newbies:
I broke my first bit. ¿How? Well, again, always wanting to see result immediately, I dint see (if I had taken my time, probably would had seen it) there was a small nail laying inside one of the holes of the bolts that grab the board to the base channels and damage a corner of the bit a was using to flat the table board.
So take your time and be patience. Will save you money.

[grandpi]

Congratulations for achieving the Mechmate (and all your problems with).
Is it possible to have photos of first works ?.

On wich software do you work ?
What do you think about the cutting speed ? Do you think, in a professionnal way it is important to have 2 Mechmates ?

What do you think of Ponoko web site as new cnc user ? They contact me to work with as other Futur Mechmate user could do it.

Bye,

Pierre.

Congratualations Hugo for you newborn,
Please post some photos of it, may be a video.
Also some works of it.

PK

[Hugo Carradini]

Thanks for your comments PK and Pierre.
My next project is, building MechMates for people interested in having one here in my country. But first, I have to learn many things about Cad/Cam software, electronics, organizing the new shop, bank loan etc, etc, etc. I don't have a reference to compare my MechMate except a couple off two small machines I build before and is like a horse wagon against a car. I have potential clients that are very satisfied with the machine development (I have done couple of V-Vetric samples) but i still have to get more confidence fore making serious demonstrations.
I have to learn to graduate the motors to achieve the best results an so there are many others parameters that have to be checked and learn and at the same time have to take time for my main job and time for the bureaucracy of the paper work that has to be done, etc.
In this moment I am fixing the problem of the dust that makes the machine and I found a great place for buying cheap dust blower. Go to the place where they fix laundry dryers and check for a use turbine with motor. I got one very cheap, no noise and a lot of suction nice for making a simple cyclone. I am not going to cut nothing more till a build my dust control system.
Pierre I have not checked Ponoko yet and don't know how they operate.
Regards to all.

[grandpi]

Hi Hugo,

On your last reply you have said you are going to build Mechmate for your local users/customers. I would like to know if you think of it like a real business way in your country or just a way to help people to developp small businesses (no judgement from me in the question !). Maybe, i could be interested to do same in South of France ( with Gerald agreement of course).
Thank you,

Pierre GRAND

[javeria]

Hugo,

Did u get to finish ur dust control system.

RGDS
irfan

[Hugo Carradini]

irfan i am waiting for a http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-POWERFUL-1-H...QQcmdZViewItem to star building my system. I will post.
Pierre I was busy and away from the forum. In the beginning I was planing on building MECHMATES for helping people start small business but there is a long curve of knowledge to be archived before I can start doing anything sow I am studying and practicing to get to known the machine and the softwares .

[javeria]

Hugo do you think the one on Ebay can do u a good Job, I think U can buy that and build a clear vue type cyclone for it, as that ebay item has a good price tag.

www.clearvuecyclones.com

http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

Dont work without the dust control, its very harmful to your lungs.

[Hugo Carradini]

Hello Gerald and rest of the MechMate addicts.
I am posting my results for taking away the dust that was killing me. Is a very low cost budget project but works fine and takes away the 95% off the dust that was all over. The turbine is a 3/4 HP and I had to use two houses of 2" each because it was impossible to get a light 4" house. Suction is enough and noise is low and can be on all day with out getting hot. Next I will build it more esthetically, I just cant hold more dust.
Regards

[cncb]

Hugo, looks good buddy but you need to surface/change your spoilboard! Looks like it has seen a lot of cutting!

[Gerald D]

Good to hear from you Hugo!