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  #1  
Old Tue 17 April 2007, 12:23
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me:
 
Handmade V-Rails - "JR Skate" has 4.5" grinder riding the rail

(This post was made in this thread before - it has deserved its own separate thread)


Gerald, it's amazing how minds on opposite sides of the world can think in harmony. How do i upload pictures to a post?
  #2  
Old Tue 17 April 2007, 13:03
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me:
 
Gerald while you were brainstorming this passed week, i was too, here is what i came up with. I will try to upload some pics.
  #3  
Old Tue 17 April 2007, 13:08
Gerald_D
Just call me:
 
That's a beauty! Applause!
  #4  
Old Tue 17 April 2007, 13:55
Arthur Ransom
Just call me:
 
JR when I get ready to do my rails how about renting me the grinder for a week. You could start your own rental business!
  #5  
Old Tue 17 April 2007, 13:59
Marc Shlaes
Just call me:
 
Tremendous! I too would like to rent it!!! That is certainly better than anything I was dreaming about.
  #6  
Old Tue 17 April 2007, 17:06
Greg J
Just call me:
 
WOW!! There is allot of talent here.

Very nice work.
  #7  
Old Mon 11 June 2007, 15:25
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
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As the work continues! It took about 9 hours to cut, grind, and bevel the rails (2 pcs 12' and 2 pcs 8' rough lengths) and they came out even better than I expected (Gerald, the skateboard works great). The masking tape makes layout a lot easier, and if you mess up it's easy to remove and start over.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg color code.jpg (48.0 KB, 4126 views)
File Type: jpg cutter.jpg (47.7 KB, 4110 views)
File Type: jpg riding the rail.jpg (45.4 KB, 4123 views)
  #8  
Old Mon 11 June 2007, 16:56
Marc Shlaes
Just call me: Marc
 
Cleveland, OH
United States of America
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Beautiful

J.R.,

When you cut the rails, did you slide the rail or the cutter? Based on your setup, I'm guessing you slid the cutter.

Also, the angle grinder you made is absolutely beautiful. Seriously, are you interested in renting it out????

All the best,

Marc
  #9  
Old Mon 11 June 2007, 18:50
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to J.R. Hatcher
Marc, you are right, it's the cutter that moves, the rail is C clamped to the main beam (makes a great work surface). I cut my main beam (7" channel) 1st, should have left it 20' long, would have worked a lot better as a work surface. The little grinder is hard to control when you first start on a rail, it's because the depth rollers do not touch until it's almost completely finished. I need to address this problem before anyone else uses it. Maybe it will be more user friendly by the time you start your MechMate.
  #10  
Old Tue 12 June 2007, 00:08
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Great stuff J.R.!

How much did you lose at the tip of each rail because of the skateboard's length? It's very important for folk to know that they must not cut the rails to exact length before shaping the V.

Like how you marked out the holes on masking tape.
  #11  
Old Tue 12 June 2007, 05:53
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to J.R. Hatcher
In the US stock steel comes 20 feet long(+ around 2" extra). My MechMate cut dimensions are 52" X 100" (our mdf comes 49" X 97", I've been building custom cabinets since mid 1970, still don't know why 49", 97"). I cut the rough length of the rails X = 12 feet and Y = 8 feet + or - a little (that's about 12" extra on each end. My skateboard is 16" long, by the time it hit the stop I only had about 2" in the clear, passed the "finished end".
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MVC-012S.JPG (37.1 KB, 4108 views)
File Type: jpg MVC-013S.JPG (37.8 KB, 4102 views)
File Type: jpg MVC-019S.JPG (34.1 KB, 4086 views)
File Type: jpg MVC-011S.JPG (37.0 KB, 4085 views)
  #12  
Old Thu 21 June 2007, 21:07
tpworks
Just call me: Tom
 
Atlanta, GA
United States of America
JR,
Do you have a dxf of the skate board plate?

Tom
  #13  
Old Thu 21 June 2007, 22:08
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to J.R. Hatcher
Tom I'm sorry to say I don't. It's right from the head. It would have taken me longer to draw it than to make it. J.R.
  #14  
Old Mon 20 August 2007, 21:20
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
J.R.

I'm building your "skate" tool to grind the rails. Gerald's way works, but I want to try your method. I think the time invested will be well worth it.

I have a few questions concerning the roller that rides on the vertical 1 inch leg of the rail. I've searched McMaster high and low for rollers close to yours. Where did you get yours? Was the shaft a press fit on the rollers? The cheapest roller I found had a 1/16 inch clearance between the bore and shaft (if I used a 1/4 inch Dia. shaft). Or, is it a non-issue.

The guide rollers are not a problem.

I'm putting my design and parts list on AutoCAD and will post a PDF file if anyone is interested.

Greg
  #15  
Old Tue 21 August 2007, 00:23
Les Filip
Just call me: Les
 
Austin, Texas
United States of America
I am sure I am not the only one who would appreciate the plans for the grinding skate.

Take Care,
Les
  #16  
Old Tue 21 August 2007, 07:32
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
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Greg my bearings were surplus I bought them 15 to 20 years ago for $.25 each from a tractor store. They have a 3/4" bore and yes they are a press fit. I knurled a 3/4" rod to increase it's diameter a little.
The 1" leg has to be 1 1/8". I will double check this.
The stud for the rollers that ride the sides need to be very beefy. It has an ecentric hole for the adjustment bolt.
If you need closeup pictures of anything let me know.
  #17  
Old Tue 21 August 2007, 08:15
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
Thanks J.R.

Have to run, darn day job getting in the way again.

I'll work on it tonight.

Greg
  #18  
Old Tue 21 August 2007, 11:10
tpworks
Just call me: Tom
 
Atlanta, GA
United States of America
Greg,
Have a look here, http://www.vxb.com/ I have purchased from here before for my mini mill spindle bearings and thought they were reasonably priced.

Tom
  #19  
Old Tue 21 August 2007, 13:52
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
Tom,

Thanks. That's the site I was looking for. I like McMaster allot for service, but they are high priced. If I was to use McMaster rollers, my "J.R. skate" would soon be approaching the "snap-on" league.

Greg
  #20  
Old Tue 21 August 2007, 14:22
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
J.R.

According to drawing M1 10 110 Rev A - the X rail is 2.5 inch by 1.0 inch for us on this side of the Atlantic.

Greg
  #21  
Old Tue 21 August 2007, 14:31
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to J.R. Hatcher
that's correct but to use the same skateboard as mine you will need to increase that to 1 1/8". The bearings bottom out on the inside corner.
  #22  
Old Tue 21 August 2007, 15:00
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
J.R.,

I'm going to keep it at 1 inch. Using the web site that Tom supplied, there are any width one could want.

I wanted to ask you, does your skate stay vertical or does it rock back and forth, perpendicular to the X rail when grinding? It looked like you had a very nice 45 degree edge on your rail.

Greg
  #23  
Old Tue 21 August 2007, 19:27
tpworks
Just call me: Tom
 
Atlanta, GA
United States of America
Greg,

I'm not sure but it looks like J.R. might have doubled up the side bearings. I would think that the wider the bearing surface the more ridgid it would be (less chance for a rocking action), at least that is what I am seeing.

Tom
  #24  
Old Tue 21 August 2007, 19:51
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to J.R. Hatcher
Tom you hit the nail on the head. It doesn't rock any when the side bearings are adjusted tight against the angle. I did use 2 bearings per stud, so about 1" (2-1/2" bearings) X 4 (studs) of metal to metal. If yours rocks use Gerald's suggestion and put an outrigger.

Last edited by J.R. Hatcher; Tue 21 August 2007 at 19:54..
  #25  
Old Tue 21 August 2007, 22:24
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
In my paper design, I'm using 7/16 inch wide bearings. When you look at a cross section of the rail (2-1/2 inch x 1 inch angle) there isn't much surface area. It obviously works since J.R. has produced very nice rails (J.R. did add 1/8 inch, but I can't believe that an 1/8 inch adds that much surface). I did off set the center of the 3/4 inch diameter shaft for the bearings. It should be a tight fit.

Let me know if i'm missing something. I have to order parts (haven't done so yet), so when I get my parts, we'll have another prototype.

8_20_07 skate.pdf
  #26  
Old Wed 22 August 2007, 01:05
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
The "outrigger" I suggested before is the blue bearing:


Remember to think how you are going to hold/clamp the rail (if at all) before you run an "outrigger" wheel
  #27  
Old Wed 22 August 2007, 05:50
Allegheny
Just call me: Brian
 
Massachusetts
United States of America
JR,

Using an eccentrically drilled 3/4" rod for the bearings is a clever way to allow for tightening the jig onto the angle via cam action. I have two questions, however.

First, how do you intend to rotate the cams to equal pressure? Also, would it not be easier to have both bearings on one side of the angle use center bored rod and have cams on the other? This would make adjusting the entire skate, and the surface of the grinding wheel, to be parallel to the rail much easier.

Secondly, how do you intend to keep the bearings from riding up the rod toward the carrier plate as the skate is pressed down as it is moved along the rail (perhaps a second bearing stacked on top to fill the entire space under the carrier plate - this would have the added advantage of offering more support during the early grinding when the rail is square)? There is no washer/retainer of any type in the drawing. It would be possible to turn a taper on the rod (say 0.5-1^o) thereby creating a press fit, but this can be tricky as too much pressure can deform the bearing and cause it to malfunction.

Brian
  #28  
Old Wed 22 August 2007, 07:07
Greg J
Just call me: Greg #13
 
Hagerman, New Mexico
United States of America
I think I'll make the skate as is (aka - J.R.'s skate) and post results.

Its amazing how some people can design and fabricate in therir head. Not I.

On another note - My C-channels arrived yesterday . Geeez, J.R. that C7x14.75 is 300 lbs (136 KG) by itself. You moved the partial table outside to the paint booth by yourself? I think I'll start calling you SIR (as in yes sir!)

Greg
  #29  
Old Wed 22 August 2007, 07:27
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to J.R. Hatcher
First; Brian based on using the tool, having equal pressure does not seem to be an issue. Having all bearings adjustable makes setup a little easier, once you get it adjusted you leave one set alone as if they are center bored. Also being parallel doesn't seem to be important as long as you have enough extra length to get the wheel completely off the good piece.
Second; The bearings are pressed on the 3/4" rod(read earily post in this thread to see how this was done), they don't move. Remember the most important pass is the last one, anything extra should be done here.
  #30  
Old Wed 22 August 2007, 07:33
J.R. Hatcher
Just call me: J.R. #4
 
Wilmington, North Carolina
United States of America
Send a message via Skype™ to J.R. Hatcher
Greg since I moved those sides by myself my wife said she thinks my voice is a little higher???
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