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  #1  
Old Tue 11 August 2009, 23:40
nztomcat
Just call me: nick
 
Invercargill
New Zealand
Non-MechMate discussions in Invercargill, New Zealand

Hey Guys

Some awesome ideas on here and really detailed information

Heres something a bit different to what I've seen on here yet.

Ive got myself a Biesse Rover 36, Mahine was running till a Plc Error has meant it wont anymore its not ecenomical to fix it soo.
I'm looking at either gutting it or rebuilding it.

Option one. Use existing Overhead gantry design and rails. The overhead Platform goes long ways over the x-axis as opposed to width ways along the x-axis.
This means I can use the existing router head and motors as well as the multi bit head.
However this leaves me with one big issue because i cant use the existing plc this means my existing controll gear is prettymuch scrp. So there goes a lare cabinet full of components.
Only thing I can work ou is can i use a different motor controller on the existing motors in this machine? Obviously fitting a nema34 would be a waste of time in comparison to the 12hp motor thats in there now. Which realistically is required to run half the tools.Does anyone have relevant experience with operation and control of these on new drives and controllers etc. This would give me an advantage of side routers as well.

Option 2 Scratch build a Mechmate. Forget about the Rover 36 and settle for a single tool design. Multi-tools is not necessary but it means there are alot more posibilities to design and finishing details aswell as faster.
i would need a frame that can do sheets 2440x1220x60 as a minimum so I was thinking a table size at least. 2700x1400x100 as a minimum. Are there options for a tool stock? How would i go about this a fixed tool stock or a sliding rack?
Each tool stock option would mean different variables. Sliding stock would mean I can use standard ISO styled collets to drop and pick up tools from one place and slide the rack back and forth to suit the selected tool.
The other option is a tool stock fixed over the end of the rack holding say 6 tools?
Which motor, drive and software configuration would people suggest?
I would prefer to use a geared motor over belt as this should be a lot more accurate in machining. i may be wrong with this happy to accept a mistake.

Bit of a long listed post i know possibly one that you guys have come accross in the past. i am new to this building a CNC field as I'm sure alot of people have been in the past. However very willing to learn as this will help me get my bisuness off the ground.

Cheers Nick
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  #2  
Old Wed 12 August 2009, 01:59
mrghm
Just call me: Gareth
 
Syd
Australia
have you looked at up grading your controller for the bessy, i think it costs under 10k for an aftermarket complete up grade. you just wire the existing motors up to the new control box
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  #3  
Old Wed 12 August 2009, 03:01
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Hi Nick, welcome!

I think it will be a sin to walk away from a Biesse purely because the controller is obsolete. Gareth is on the right track - there must be a whole host of alternative controllers out there.

If you were living out here, I might have offered to do you a swop.....a (functional) MM for a (dead) Biesse
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  #4  
Old Wed 12 August 2009, 15:11
nztomcat
Just call me: nick
 
Invercargill
New Zealand
Options

Well I'd love to look at controller options however there are none in new zealand even called the biesse agent here who says it cant be done.
Which to me is a load of rubbish but i cant find out enough details to make one up or go see someone to get the parts to do it

Have tried scouring the internet but that doesnt seem to help me any.

Unless someone knows a way to use a controll system similar to the mechmate with the existing motors etc?

Cheers nick
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  #5  
Old Wed 12 August 2009, 20:39
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
What are the markings on your Biesse motors? Photo?
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  #6  
Old Wed 12 August 2009, 22:41
Kobus_Joubert
Just call me: Kobus #6
 
Riversdale Western Cape
South Africa
Send a message via Yahoo to Kobus_Joubert Send a message via Skype™ to Kobus_Joubert
I have this feeling the Biesse will be running soon under MACH3 Anything is possible
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  #7  
Old Thu 13 August 2009, 02:54
mrghm
Just call me: Gareth
 
Syd
Australia
i know that CNC Controls (www.cnccontrols.com) sell DIY kits where you re wire your existing motors to a new controller,

this would require the same skills as building a mechmate's electronics.
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  #8  
Old Thu 13 August 2009, 05:25
smreish
Just call me: Sean - #5, 28, 58 and others
 
Orlando, Florida
United States of America
Gosh,
I wish I had a reason to fly to new zealand, I would be glad to come by and help you out. I am fairly certain it is possible.
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  #9  
Old Thu 13 August 2009, 08:51
Doug_Ford
Just call me: Doug #3
 
Conway (Arkansas)
United States of America
Invercargill? Isn't that Burt Munro's hometown? He's my hero (after Gerald of course.)
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  #10  
Old Thu 13 August 2009, 14:17
nztomcat
Just call me: nick
 
Invercargill
New Zealand
Well

Have had luck now know exactly how to get most of it up and going making a control etc.

What a relief will post up information well I'm doing it just for a bit of information here

Will still build a mechmate to with a few design changes and some different Ideas
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  #11  
Old Sat 19 September 2009, 07:43
battwell
Just call me: biessebod
 
cardiff
United Kingdom
what model controller does your biesse have?
what fault code is it showing if any?
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  #12  
Old Sun 20 September 2009, 14:23
nztomcat
Just call me: nick
 
Invercargill
New Zealand
Hello

I should have filled this out earlier

Weve got it up and running now few we glitches for some reason the plc wont activate the rd35 terminal output to engage power onto the heads it also had a burnt out contact which wouldnt help couldnt get it to move at all because I keept getting error codes relatiing to the heads which would never get power due to an output on this not working

Easy enough solution was to override the rd35 output and bipas the relay which triggered the main contact which in turn gave the heads power to move stuill dont know why the out put doesnt work trying to find the details of the language the plc is written in to find out whats wrong with that particaular line of code
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  #13  
Old Mon 21 September 2009, 04:01
battwell
Just call me: biessebod
 
cardiff
United Kingdom
the code is native to the cni controllers.
if you have floppy disk it can be read and rewritten with rawrite
what controller model is it?
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  #14  
Old Mon 21 September 2009, 04:20
battwell
Just call me: biessebod
 
cardiff
United Kingdom
i have been researching a refit of the biesse using mach 3 or camsoft. and a galil motion controller. there are a huge number of input/outputs required. on my 321 there are 92!
the drives are analogue hence the galil motion controller which fits the bill nicely
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  #15  
Old Mon 21 September 2009, 14:56
nztomcat
Just call me: nick
 
Invercargill
New Zealand
battwell

It was an error 25 that was causing the problem however there was nothing at all wrong to create this problem.
O well not to concerned I've got a solution to the refit sitting in my lounge now.

I've got a similar machine to do a retro on which is a rover 322 running a nc481 theres a problem with is scaling ability it sounds like its just an encoder thats damaged but biesse new zealand has told the guy the control cards stuffed. Which they promptly priced at 15k new zealand and sent the original one to an it guy to have a look at. I dont know what they were thinking what It guy is going to have any idea how to check a control card for a biesse without drives or anything there to test it on he didnt even have enough to power it up.

How ever this has got me into setting up a plug and play biesse controller. This far it includes new controller to interface to existing drives. LCD screen with keyboard and mouse. Its own dedicated operating system that can run both windows and linux programs. Wireless network setup. Its own control software and also control suite. Running on a solid state drive for added reliability. The idea behind doing it this was it to prevent any errors and people playing with things they dont understand. Which seems to be what happens alot in new zealand I've got another 2 machines to do retros on now and possibly another 4 or 5 of them. All seem to be about 10 years old and full of compatibility problems.

I know what your thinking why not go put a post processor on these and run it how they are.

-Problems noted so far with older plc derived systems. Reaction time is slow. Fault finding can be a nightmare as the manuals never cover all the information you need to know.
- They all have limits put in them that i have noticed that prevent full travel and full speed and incrimentions are roughly designed making it harder on machines and bits.

Where as with a pc based system there are buffers in software to ensure all movements are smooth interpolation between 3 axis is way easier and alot tidier

They are smaller which is a plus for someone with not a larger workshop area

Also with a pc based system it is alot easier to have 3 makes of machine in your factory communicate together
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  #16  
Old Sun 27 September 2009, 14:54
nztomcat
Just call me: nick
 
Invercargill
New Zealand
Versatile Board

Hey guys wasnt sure on how to word this is where to put it

I'm after a board suitable for controlling older series servo drives old soprel vwme ones

Operating from 110v to 165v

Need to be able to control 3 axis
Want an output for a vsd as well one that can be set at different speeds
Heres the fun part I also want to have a card that has a plc function ladder logic would be fine or anything similar. Its just for switching relays etc so only needs to be a 12volt system. The more out puts the better as its possible the same control will be used similtanously on more than one machine at a time for timing reasons to keep a contstant production flow

Details are pretty vague as I'm not 100 percent sure on some details yet need to find out whats about before I finish designning the machine

Cheers Nick
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  #17  
Old Sun 27 September 2009, 20:53
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Nick, this forum is for MM builders only....have you tried cnczone?
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  #18  
Old Sun 27 September 2009, 22:55
nztomcat
Just call me: nick
 
Invercargill
New Zealand
Hey

Not trying to step on anyones toes with how the discussion ended up.
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  #19  
Old Sun 27 September 2009, 22:58
nztomcat
Just call me: nick
 
Invercargill
New Zealand
How come was the versatile controller moved from the board it was in?

Its not even anything to do with the biesse.

I'm looking at building a machine deriving off the mechmate design. With a full tool change sytem and loader racks on it also for larger production. Also having a series of clamps that lift up to give it the ability to work as a nest and a pod machine so horizontal boring in nessecary
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  #20  
Old Sun 27 September 2009, 23:50
Gerald D
Just call me: Gerald (retired)
 
Cape Town
South Africa
Nick, I am gently trying to tell you that you that I would prefer you to go to another forum because I feel you are distracting from the purpose of this forum.
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  #21  
Old Mon 28 September 2009, 02:55
battwell
Just call me: biessebod
 
cardiff
United Kingdom
try this forum for a start.
my biesse has soprel analogue drives
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/ind...12540.new.html
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