Had a transformer built - Buenos Aires, Argentina

[PEU]

Hi, this is intended to be the future build log of my MM, it may take a long time to have pictures posted, but I started modelling in CAD my future machine, so I will need a place to make questions, this will be that place.

My 3D model is being made in Solidworks, which also has a very nice and free viewer that allows anyone wanting to view and comment my progress to be able to see it without installing the full CAD package.

This free viewer can be downloaded HERE (http://www.edrawingsviewer.com/index.html)

Here is a photo of what I've done so far:

http://peu.net/mechmate/mm01

The biggest board size available here in Argentina is 3050x1850 so I designed around this size.

Main Longitudinal lenght is 3650mm and beams are 200x75mm C channels at 25.5kg/m
Cross bearer lenght is 2270mm with 80x45mm C channels at 8.7kg/m
Table pipes are 50.8mmx3.2mm wall section.
Total weight so far: 520Kg

Now, here I start with questions, please be patient, I suck at reading 2D blueprints and I may be asking stupid questions every now and then :)

I want to be able to split the machine in parts like Gerald did in this photo:
"http://www.mechmate.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1781&d=1216796877

Once you assemble both sides, are the cross bearers bolted or welded?


Pablo

[Gerald D]

Bolted

[PEU]

In 10.10.240 steel angle, the photo shows an already machined profile or I should start with a dissimilar sides L angle?

http://peu.net/mechmate/mm02

I can find this profile everywhere here.

Thanks!

[PEU]

Nevermind, I found the answer in the forums, a month here and I'm still discovering the place :)

[javeria]

HI Pablo, I can help u with few parts - let me know if you want me to model a few part - give me the part numbers - I use SW2008 though.

RGDS
IRfan

[PEU]

Hi Irfan, very kind of you :)

But, if you help me it defeats the purpose of the effort Im taking to draw it, which is learn how to read the blueprints & assemble the machine.

BTW, section 10, the table, is finished, now the fun part begins, the Y gantry, it should be easy, I have all the parts already modeled, mmm, not really, motors & rack/pinion still need to be drawn, but I will leave the R&P till I know what can I find here.

Today I called a couple of steel supliers (both local) and the price differences between them was around 30% :eek:
The 200x75x3650mm UPN profile best price was USD235 each, I need to shop more, Im sure I can lower this still more.

Attached is the finished table model.

cheers!

[J.R. Hatcher]

Pablo the table looks a little close to the left end of the rails to me. It could just be the angle of the drawing, double check and see? Can't wait to see it finished so far it looks pretty cool.

[PEU]

JR, you are right, its maybe a little to the left, I used this image as a reference:

http://peu.net/mechmate/mm04

and this was my previous comparative view:

http://peu.net/mechmate/mm03

I re-did it and now it looks like this:

http://peu.net/mechmate/mm05

Now the rail stops are outside the workspace, I guess this is the correct arrangement :)


Thanks!

[javeria]

Pablo, have you enabled measurement on the edrawing file? also apply material so that we can estimate the weights of the individual parts.

RGDS
Irfan

[PEU]

Irfan, I just reopened the file and yes you can measure everything, go to the measuring tape on the left toolbar and once there a new measuring tape icon appears on the middle of the left panel.

Current weight is 550Kg

[Gerald D]

Pablo, no. 4 cross-support channel from the right . . . . how are you fixing that to the big beam?

I tried to point the cross-support channel legs to the center of the table.

[Gerald D]

I get the impression that you did not see on the drawing that the table is 100mm off the center of the legs and x-rails? (You seem to be guessing a distance above?)

[PEU]

Pablo, no. 4 cross-support channel from the right . . . . how are you fixing that to the big beam?

I tried to point the cross-support channel legs to the center of the table.

I missed that one, I guess because it was hidden behind the leg, already corrected this

I get the impression that you did not see on the drawing that the table is 100mm off the center of the legs and x-rails? (You seem to be guessing a distance above?)

You are correct, I saw just today the mention about the centerlines, also corrected this, attached is the new model.

BTW, is ok to keep attaching files? I can host them in my site if you want. I see a red bar in the attachment screen that moves to a full position, how do I remove old/obsoleted attachments?

Thanks!

[Gerald D]

Unfortunately you cannot remove attachments.

[PEU]

Not sure if I will be able to draw during the weekend, I advanced a little today, here is a picture and then take a look at the attachment. Curious minds will look for the animation button :)

http://peu.net/mechmate/mm06

I hope fit is the same in the real world, CAD models provided by Gerald are purrrrfect!


Pablo

[Gerald D]

Do you want me to delete some of your older attachments, or posts?

[PEU]

Do you want me to delete some of your older attachments, or posts?

Feel free to delete old attachments, I wanted to spare you this job, but it seems VBulletin is configured to not allow edits after a day or so. The latest attachment includes work done in previous posts.

Delete posts? did I say something improper? Im sure I asked some dumb questions already, but its part of the learning process :)

cheers!

[Gerald D]

I have configured this vbulletin so that users cannot delete their attachments. However, I will delete things on request. Sometimes, if only the attachment is deleted, then the post no longer makes sense - that's why I offered to delete posts as well. (It is easier for me to delete a whole post with attachment)

People who have posted a lot of stuff get their limit increased - but there is always a limit. (Sometimes I copy a post to another thread, and that chews into your limit because an attachment is then posted twice.)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Comment on post #15.. I think the Y-car should turn 180 degrees..your long side of the table is on the right hand side of this drawing. If you fit your router/spindle to view it from the right hand side, then the car is wrong on this impression....I think...otherwise very nice to see it like this, wish I had it like this when I did my build.;)

[Gerald D]

Kobus, that view looks right to me.

[Kobus_Joubert]

You are right again...0.0 will be on the top left hand side on that drawing......that is why I said.... I think....I should not THINK.:D

[Gerald D]

To make it clear:

2164

[Gerald D]

In this view . . . .

2165

. . . . . you should see M1 30 332 P. The y-motor goes on the other side.

[Greg J]

Nice model. I wish it had been produced when I was building. :)

[sailfl]

Pablo

Very nice drawings. You are doing an excellent job.

[PEU]

Thanks for the nice words, been busy these last days, I will start drawing the Z axis in a few days :)

[PEU]

I started drawing the Z axis, I have one question (maybe more to come)

why 10.40.334 is not laser cut?

I mean, I can ask this piece to be cut from heat hardenable steel if needed.
And to make things simpler (at least for me) I own a small CNC mill (*) I can use for drilling holes before hardening them

Or Im missing something here?

Thanks!

(*) I represent Syil CNC machines here in Argentina.

[Gerald D]

I very much doubt that you can get that part cut economically from a "tool steel" from a standard laser supplier. Get us some prices and then we can talk again. ;)

[PEU]

Question regarding M1.20.210 excentric bush: whats the purpose of using excentric bushings vs. a concentric one? :D

Thanks for un-dumbing me :)

[Doug_Ford]

Pablo,

Eccentric bushings allow you to do two things. 1) You can tighten up the tolerances between the V-rollers and the Z axis. 2) You can adjust the Z axis so that it is perpendicular to the table.

The way you do that is by using a wrench on the hex head of the bushings until they are in the right position and then you tighten the allen head bolts that pass through them. Very ingenious engineering on Gerald's part.

[PEU]

mmm I think I understand, thanks for the explanation, will try to reproduce the effect in the model, updates hopefully tomorrow.

[PEU]

I almost finished 10.40.000, the moving Z axis. Please review any obvious errors, I don't understand why it needs to be so tall and why 10.40.360 needs to be bigger than the plate, I must probably done something wrong.
Anyway, check the edrawing and also check the animation inside, it shows how the excentric bushes work for positioning.


Pablo

[sprayhead]

Pablo, Me diga...

These files you are sending have a SolidWorks extension? If yes, can you send something that can be opened everywhere... I use Inventor, thanks.

Francis

[PEU]

Hola Francis,

You need an eDrawings viewer, it can be downloaded here: http://www.edrawingsviewer.com/index.html and its free.

[PEU]

Cannot resist the temptation and I joined all parts together, also put there, floating in the air, a metabo grinder, the one I plan to use.
Here are some snapshots, but of course the attached 3D model is more fun to view

http://peu.net/mechmate/mm07
http://peu.net/mechmate/mm08

The rotational center of the torque of the long Z axis is not an issue right?
I mean, the spider 200mm vs the extended arm measuring 260mm in the Z direction when the machine is cutting (tip of the cutting tool) seems to be not enough if the wood being cut is strong, say for example a hard wood or 20mm plywood.
I guess this is compensated by going slower. Am I wrong?

[Gerald D]

....right? Yes
....wrong? No

[CNCQuest]

Hi Pablo,

Nice work and thanks for the effort.

I can open the eDrawing files without any problems but can we have the drawings in original SolidWorks parts and/or assembly drawings?

TIA,
WT

[PEU]

Im not sure if I will release the source SW files, the edrawings files I provided have all the measurements enabled.
Unless Gerald asks me to post them, they will be available only to him, the original designer.

Pablo

[Gerald D]

Pablo, feel free to publish those files here at the MechMate site. People wanting to read the files have to register and agree to respect the user agreement.

[PEU]

Pablo, feel free to publish those files here at the MechMate site. People wanting to read the files have to register and agree to respect the user agreement.

OK, I just wanted to be sure you had no problems :) here they go, the zip file is 13mb so I uploaded to my site, but to force non registered users to agree to the terms and conditions I created a zip file with a link to the file and its attached to this post.

Parts were drawn with SW2007 so previous versions cannot open them. And no, Im not willing to become a file converting service for other CAD packages or SW versions :)

Suggestions for improving the drawings are always welcome, and I will do them on a time available basis.

If you have to thank someone, thank Gerald, without his generosity, this would not be possible.


Pablo

[CNCQuest]

Hi Pablo & Gerald,

I greatly appreciate the SolidWorks original files and thanks both of you for your kind generosities and hard works.

I thought of asking for the SW files so that I do not have to reinvent the wheel :). My intention is to make certain changes to suit my purpose as not all the materials are readily available here. Like you, I prefer working in 3D though I can read the 2D drawings without any problems.

Should I make any changes and think it will benefit others, I will no doubt share it in the spirit of this great community.

With my thanks and great appreciation,

WT

[jrabeneck]

I downloaded these files and opened in Inventor 2009. They opened perfectly. Good job.

[PEU]

Just an update, I didn't dissapear, I read the forum almost daily but since I need to move from my current location to a new place I can't move forward in the project, hopefully this will happen soon.

Since my last post I can give one good news: I was father again! :)

Not a mechmate fotolog, but you can see pictures here: www.peu.net/alex :)


Pablo

[J.R. Hatcher]

Congratulations! That's a beautiful family. I can tell by the pictures that you are very proud.:) Go tell mama one more time how beautiful she is...

[Gerald D]

Congratulations to mother & father!

[javeria]

Congrats Pablo, have fun with the new one! :)

God bless all!

RGDS
IRfan

[PEU]

Thanks guys, and thanks Gerald for the temporary title change.

I miss the good sleep nights :)


Pablo

[domino11]

Pablo
Congratulations! :):cool: All the best to the family!

[smreish]

Wow - I remember last year trying to complete my build with a baby on the way....then waiting, then waiting, then waiting...then baby! (wiring was done during this waiting phase)
Congratulations.

[isladelobos]

Felicidades !!!

[Lex]

Congratulations!

[Kobus_Joubert]

Congratulations and well done...another Scorpion born.;)

[hennie]

Congrats!!

[PEU]

Thanks again guys!! :)

Back on topic.

Do any of you guys have a work order sheet, I mean the one you fill when a new work comes to your shop, what do you guys ask from the customer? what are the minimum requierements?

Since I can't build the machine, I want to create a business flow model around the mechmate, from customer call/visit to delivery

I was also thinking about a 3 tier price list, something like:

top tier: job finished today
mid: Job finished in the next 48hs
bottom: finished in less than a week

Do you guys see this as doable?

And last one (for now) customers bring the material or its provided by me?

Thanks!!

[robertmonroe]

Gracias Amigo.

[BHawthorne]

Wow, nice solids model. It better helps me visualize the finished product. :)

[PEU]

Hi, I think I found a place to build my shop not many blocks away from my home, its small because I live in a city and zonification don't allow for big shops, the lot size is 8.6m wide x 25m long and I can build one extra floor over the roof only (ground + 1st floor)

Since I need to demolish the actual home there because its very old and cannot be restored, I tought why not ask for ideas, I asked in this thread before, but now that I have better idea of the space available, Im asking again.

What do you guys think of this ground floor layout? http://peu.net/plano1.pdf (800kb)
(non obvious translations: Cocina=Kitchen / Area Trabajo=Work Area / Entrada taller=Work Area entrance)

Comments are welcome and appreciated.

Thanks

[jhiggins7]

Pablo,

A suggestion regarding the Dust Collector.

My workshop is in a residential area, so having the Dust Collector outside the building is not possible...too noisy. So, I added a Dust Collector room in one corner of the workshop. It has a vent back into the workshop with double filters. This means that when the Dust Collector is running, no air is being sucked out of the workshop. I insulated the inside walls to reduce noise. I also used an exterior door so there is a weather seal.

There is no perceptible noise outside the workshop. The noise inside the workshop is also greatly reduced.

Regards,
John

[PEU]

What would be the problem of sucking air out of the workshop? I can add a room next to the workshop toilet for that purpose, but ventilation to the outside would be complicated.

Now that you talk ventilation, Buenos Aires is not a very cold or very hot city (year range 5C to 35C) cooling can be done by wind blowers as most shops do here, but how do you heat? gas furnaces I guess are a no-no in a wood shop. BTW, natural gas is the usual way for heating here.

Thanks

[Gerald D]

Pablo, if you have spent a lot of money to heat the air in the workshop, then you do not want to pump it outside with the dust collector. Then you make it a "closed system" - no cold air comes in and no warm air goes out. Here in South Africa we do not worry about closed systems.

[PEU]

South Africa and Buenos Aires are in almost the same Latitude S33º so I guess the temperature ranges are similar there too. Weather.com just confirmed it for me: Cape Town (http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/SFXX0010?from=month_bottomnav_business) and Buenos Aires (http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/ARBA0009?from=36hr_bottomnav_business)

How do you heat your shop in winter?

Thanks!

[Gerald D]

We work faster - no heating.

[domino11]

I dont think you guys really have winter. If there is no minus in front of the temperature numbers then its just Fall. :p:)

[isladelobos]

El tamaño máximo que puede medir un vehículo en europa son 4 metros de alto por 2.60 de ancho, a no ser que sea un vehículo especial. creo que la altura de tu planta baja será de 4 metros?

Es muy común hacer un sótano cuando falta espacio. Estaría bien para poner los equipos de ruido, al final del garaje, sobre todo cuando quieres tener un garaje limpio y aseado, muchas veces sobran cosas que se pueden guardar en este sótano.

Aquí en España, se puede aprovechar la segunda planta para hacer un ático, que no ocupe mas del 45% del total de la superficie de la planta.

[PEU]

Sotano! Que buena idea como no se me ocurrio (Basement, what a great idea how I didn't think of it)

Mañana 9AM tengo entrevista con un Arquitecto que construye muchas casas por mi barrio para saber si es viable la costruccion que yo pretendo en el lote que tengo visto (Tomorrow 9AM I have a meeting with an Arquitect that builds houses in my neighbourhood to see if the construction that I want is possible in the lot I saw)

Le voy a comentar del sotano a ver que opina (I will tell about the basement to see what he thinks about it)

No se cuanto puede encarecer la obra, mas que nada porque la losa de cemento se hace con vigas prearmadas y es muy rapida, en cambio un sotano hay que traer maquinaria pesada para hacerlo. (I don't know how much more the construction would be, mostly because the ceiling is made with pre-made concrete pieces and its fast to build, OTOH for a basement you need heavy machinery to do it)

Mañana al mediodia lo sabre mejor. Gracias :) (Tomorrow midday I will know better. Thanks)

[edit] Mi idea es hacer el techo a 3.5m de altura (My idea is to make the ceiling height 3.5m )

Pablo

[jhiggins7]

Pablo,

What would be the problem of sucking air out of the workshop? I can add a room next to the workshop toilet for that purpose, but ventilation to the outside would be complicated...


The problem with sucking air out of the workshop is that the air that is sucked out must be replaced. So the replacement air is going to come in around door seals, window seals, or how ever it can get in. If the Dust Collector is vented to the outside, it will create a "vacuum" in the workshop when it is running.

My workshop is heated and air conditioned, so I don't want to suck in cool air during the heating season or hot air during the cooling season.

As for ventilation to the outside, with the approach I took, there is no need to vent to the outside. In fact, ventilation to the outside of the workshop is undesirable.

Here's a picture of the Dust Collector room. The vent back into the workshop is above the door, but not shown in this picture. I'm sorry that I can't show you a picture with the vent. I'm out-of-town right now, and this is the only picture I have with me.
3590

Regards,
John

[jhiggins7]

Pablo & Gerald,

I'm sorry, I read Pablo's question in Post #59 and answered it before reading Gerald's Post #60.:o

Regards,
John

[PEU]

ARGH :(

Just came back from the meeting. Zone restrictions mandate that I can only use 16.66m of the 25m of the lot, thats due to the fact the entire block is not the usual 100x100m but 100x50 and the lot I like runs in the 50m side, so you need to leave 1/3 of the block, in the middle of it as air...

Back to searching, I hate searching properties, Im not a realtor for a reason :) :)


Pablo

[PEU]

D@mn Swine flu... due to the outbreak here in Argentina, the biggest wood industry expo that goes every two years was postponed till next year... I've been waiting for today since early january... d@mn... (www.fitecma.com.ar)

Im still looking for a location, not easy, land prices are too high, even with the current recessive economy. For example a 8.66x30m lot runs around 130K to 200K US dollars...

Do you guys think the saying: location-location-location its a must for a mechmate related business?

I read almost daily, the time will come when I will be able to start building my MM :)

cheers!

[Gerald D]

The "location" issue has been very important in my son's business. A customer analysis showed that 90% of the income came from less than 5km away. When he needed larger premises, he could have moved 15km to cut the premises cost by 30%, but that was considered too risky.

We know of a couple of other CNC wood routing companies all over Cape Town, and they all seem to make a living off customers within 5km from them. (Cape Town has about 2 million people, in a circle of about 50km diam.)

[PEU]

Tomorrow I will give a realtor a bid for a small lot (8.66x18.5m) not as big as I want but the location is great, its located on an well known avenue and about 10 mins from my home.
Im offering 18% less of asking price, wish me luck :)


Pablo

[Kobus_Joubert]

Good luck, and I hope he accept your offer.

[smreish]

Good Luck

[isladelobos]

Buena suerte con ese terreno.

[PEU]

The other lot was trouble, today I placed an offer for a new lot, this time 8.66x29m and my offer is less agressive, only 10% less of asking price, time will tell :)

[riesvantwisk]

Pablo,

keep trying to find that lot,
at some point you will be lucky!

Ries

[PEU]

La tercera es la vencida!! (difficult to translate: the third is the one!)

I received a call from the realtor, he negotiated an 8% discount from asking price, wednesday I will deposit a guarantee and if everything goes OK, I have my new office/workshop (after buldozing it and building of course)

Fingerscrossed.

[lumberjack_jeff]

La tercera es la vencida!! (difficult to translate: the third is the one!)

In english: "The third time's a charm" :)

[KenC]

Congratulation on you new acquisition. Wish you a prosperous journey.

[Claudiu]

Hello Pablo,

Congrats for your new aquisition.
Make it big enough so we can have the annual MM`ers meeting there.:D

Claus

[PEU]

Owner!

now the fun part starts, permits/demolition/construction/moving :)

[Gerald D]

Congratulations!!

[PEU]

The architect sent me the almost final plans, if you can read DWG, Im open to comments

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3624504/Plano%20Taller.dwg

In 1st floor at the front there is an area I demanded must be part of the project, a BBQ (Parrilla)

Garage entrance is 3.4m wide and 3.5m tall

[PEU]

sorry, garage is 3m wide

[isladelobos]

Felicidades Pablo.

You can put stairs for one possible third floor or use the rooftop.

[KenC]

Is it normal not having a rear door to serve as fire exit?

The shop I rented has the huge 3m wide roller shuttle door, and its great for ventilation.

[sailfl]

Pablo,

Wow, that is some garage.

Isn't there a lot of wasted verticle space in the garage area? Or is that the building codes for a garage in your part of the world.

Here we could have a second floor the length of the garge but you also might want the space for lifts.

Very nice. Your cars, MM and you will be very happy in that space.

[Gerald D]

Pablo, which toilets are used by the crew of delivery trucks?

[isladelobos]

as discussed earlier, the trucks in Europe are 4 meters high, high, I see that the hollow of his garage door measuring 3.50 meters.

You can put two Light windows in the rooftop for save energy.

One communication windows between the garage and the top floor.

[PEU]

Thanks for the replies, keep in mind that this lot is in the city, so I have neighbors at both sides and at the end of the lot.

Here is a photo:
http://peu.net/mods/vallejos01.JPG

Most of what you see will go to demolition.
That box in the front is a phone pairs cabinet, I already asked for it to be removed, it takes time, but it must go, the phone company likeing or not...

Answers:

Roof: 1st floor roof and work area/garage roof are the same, parabolic with fiberglass insulation plus some policarbonate sheets every now and then to have natural light in the work area. There is no concrete 2nd floor, so no need for stairs there. Maybe in the future a 2nd spiral stair can be added so 1st floor can be accessed from the work area, but this is not planned for the time being.

Rear door: there are no rear exits, only entrances at the front, one is garage, other is walking door

Garage: The garage is the space between the offices and the lot limit, it serves as a shop entrance.

Toilets: There are toilets in the office area (both floors) and there is a work area toilet at the back of the lot, you see there 3 rooms, the middle one is the toilet, right one is locked storage room and left one is dinning area for personnel, there is no regulation here that asks for a toilet for truckers, if someone asks, he/she can use the same toilet as workers.
These 3 rooms are part of the actual building, so they will be refurbished to this new use, the bathroom is actually a bathroom too.

Trucks: if you are speaking about 20/40ft container loading trucks, the entrance area is not high enough. regarding light windows, or clear policarbonate panels as I call them, they will be used where you can see the parabolic roof, I mean, in the shop area.

Last week I purchased my first tool for the shop, an used 3phase 5.5HP oil free pendular vacuum pump, its going to be put in like new conditions by professionals since I want it to be converted from vacuum pump to compressor:
http://peu.net/mods/compresor03
http://peu.net/mods/compresor04
Manufacturer website: http://www.tausem.com.ar/


Pablo

[jhiggins7]

Pablo,

If you are planning a Dust Collector, you might find it useful to prepare a closet above the rooms in the back for the Dust Collector. This closet could be enclosed and sound proofed so that the noise of the Dust Collector would be silenced. I have a Dust Collector closet and I vent the air drawn into the Dust Collector closet back into the room through double filters.

You can also vent the Dust Collector to the outside, but this involves additional design to account for the air that is "vacuumed" out of the workshop. Also, there may be rules against such venting in your location.

[lumberjack_jeff]

That's an awesome shop Pablo. It's going to be really spectacular.

[Gerald D]

That was originally a compressor - that is the reason for cooling fins on the pipes going to the big tank. (If it was only vacuum, then those pipes would be cold).

Oh, I did not realise you already had staff toilets at the back end. I thought your staff were all using the front toilets, which is okay. But then you would get visiting crew going throught the offices and that can be a bit of a problem if they spot a nice cellphone or calculator on a desk....

Suggest you put a strong floor over the back rooms. Always useful for machinery or storage. Also, get a good electricity point for the staff rooms, separate from the machinery electrical points . . . . staff do some crazy things (put knives into toasters) and then trip the machines.

[KenC]

. . . . staff do some crazy things (put knives into toasters) and then trip the machines.

I always thought that is our local tradition... :o

There is really no boundary for this sort of practice :rolleyes:

[Alan_c]

Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool...:)

[Gerald D]

That is a very interesting compressor:

http://www.tausem.com.ar/Images/cabezal-movimiento2.gif

This is a moving .gif image.....give it time to load to load from Argentina (www.tausem.com.ar (http://www.tausem.com.ar)) big file, 828 kB

[Alan_c]

I wonder how they machine an arced pot? What are the advantages, less moving parts?

[Gerald D]

Much shorter piston that doesn't wobble in the cylinder, and therefore no oval wear of the cylinder and piston.

[PEU]

The designer/Inventor and patent owner is Argentino, he even made a car motor out of the same concept, here is his youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/jorgetau

That image sometimes takes ages to download, I mirrored it here http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3624504/cabezal-movimiento2.gif

Later today I'll met with the refurbisher, he will replace the automatic, add a pressure gauge, air filter, check if the pulley needs to be replaced to a bigger/lower diameter, remove rust and paint it again and the hydraulic test.

[Gerald D]

Pablo, back to your factory . . .

If you use a roller door for the big front door, you need some space for the roller box (about 400mm X 400mm). It is a real problem to find space for the door mechanism - normally it will reduce the entrance height by 400mm.

[PEU]

good point, will ask the architect about this particular detail, im meeting him tomorrow.

[isladelobos]

Me gusta su calle empedrada y el árbol frente a su edificio, supongo que es casco antiguo. (perros orinan en el árbol).:)
Puede hacer ruido en esta zona? tal vez tenga que insonorizar.

I like its cobbled street and the tree in front of his building. suspect old area.
(dogs pee on the tree.):)
You can make noise in this area? might have to soundproof.

[PEU]

Todos los barrios por la zona son arbolados, esta en una zona semi-residencial, mayormente viviendas unifamiliares y bastantes edificios, es decir, puede haber actividades laborales pero de bajo impacto ambiental (sonido, vibraciones, etc) No va a ser necesario insonorizar, el ruido de un spindle no pasa las paredes y no hay maquinas que generen vibraciones

All the neighbourhoods in the area have trees, this is a semi-residential zone, mostly uni-family homes and many buildings, you can install shops but they must be low disturbance (noises, vibrations, etc) I don't think noise cancelling will be necesary since spindle noise is barely heard across walls and I will have no vibration generating machines there.

Del arbol probablemente tenga que cortar una ramas principales que se proyecta hacia el terreno actual, porque cuando esten hechas las oficinas chocaria con una ventana.

From the tree its most probably I will have to trim one of the main branches thats actually over the lot, when the offices are made this branch would project into the office thru the windows.

[Gerald D]

The branches will be used in the parrilla? :)

[PEU]

if I allow it to dry of course, but its too much hassle, charcoal is next to free here or I can purchase quebracho (a local hard wood) also for next to nothing

Garage Door: today the architect told me this is a non issue, the rollable front door its hidden in the ceiling beneath 1st floor flowers place, he explained it to me with a drawing like this one:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3624504/garagedoor.jpg

Also I asked for the shop perimetral columns to have support for a 2 or 3 ton crane bridge, not that I will install one from the get go, but having the columns ready will save me a lot of money when I decide to install it.

The plans are ready to be presented for approval, aesthetics can be discussed later since the approval process takes around 2 months with luck.

As soon I return from my holidays, they start this monday, I will start purchasing motors/drivers/bob and analize if I can machine the eccentrics and V rollers and will ask for quotes for local laser/bending or waterjet/bending there are at least 10 shops within one hour drive, so prices should be fair.

[PEU]

Last tuesday I sent request for the lasered/waterjet parts, about 10 emails to different providers, 3 replied within the next few days and I will call on monday as a follow up to the ones that didn't reply

One quoted a nice price but on a 10sets basis, gone, other two were waterjets and they cant mark the pieces for bending, not sure if this is OK. I have zero experience in laser/waterjet cutting but one of the companies that quoted said if I was going to compare waterjet to laser they wont quote since waterjet is far LESS expensive... this was contrary from what I read here.

So far best price is 1750 pesos + tax (usd450+tax) without bending for the full set, not the economic version.
The rep from one company that I called yesterday afternoon, after a little chat about the files and that they were for a machine we are building (he didnt received the plans at that moment) asked me, are these parts for a router? I was amazed, how the h**l did he know? anyway, on monday I will know if the router he guessed is a MM or another beast.

While I was on vacations compressor mod was done by pros, take a look:

http://peu.net/mods/compresor05
http://peu.net/mods/compresor06
http://peu.net/mods/compresor07
http://peu.net/mods/compresor08
http://peu.net/mods/compresor09
http://peu.net/mods/compresor10
http://peu.net/mods/compresor11
http://peu.net/mods/compresor12
http://peu.net/mods/compresor13
http://peu.net/mods/compresor14

And this short video of the beast in motion, the voice you hear is me talking with an employee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Blp95fmq58


Pablo

[riesvantwisk]

Pablo,

I did had my parts plasma cut (fyi 275usd in Ecuador). I don't think that not having the bend lines available is a huge issue. However, I agreed with my plasma cutter that I would bring the parts home first after cutting to drill the rest of the holes and add the bend lines by hand. THen I would bring them back to have them bend. This process was good, but it's very time consuming.
If I could, I would have them laser cut and bend lines added, this will safe you some time. It's not very easy to add the bend lines on some of the parts, specially the z-plate, but very doable.

Ries

[PEU]

More quotes are starting to roll in, best price so far: laser & bend pieces below usd400 for the full options list :)

[riesvantwisk]

Pablo,

sounds like you will have your laser cut part very soon then ;)

Ries

[PEU]

yup :) next is the USA purchasing spree: motors, geckos, pmdx bb and stuff thats pricey here in Argentina, I have plenty of time to make the electronics box before I will be able to build the mechanics.

[PEU]

For the readers in Argentina, biggest Argentina woodworking expo starts next week:
http://feria.fitecma.com.ar/
Will take photos of the interesting stuff.

[riesvantwisk]

Pablo,

I miss that sort of thing here in Ecuador :(

Ries

[PEU]

Today I made the 1st step towards my mechmate, ordered the lasered parts, just in case I ordered the whole full set (29 pieces essential+optional) since Im still undecided on what motors to use, if I have to choose now, I would pick ungeared and add a 4:1 transmision.

The price, after a round of 9 RFQ, is only $227+tax it will be ready in two weeks, the delay is part of the low price, sometimes it pays to work in advance :)
I hope I can get a structural steel deal similar to this one.

One question, since the price is so great, is there something else I can get lasercut that is not in Gerald plans?

Regarding the construction, plans are still waiting to be approved, already got the natural gas supply stopped and got the certificate from the company, but demolition alone could take at least 15 days more...

Im happy (because of the lasered parts not because of the approval delays)

[isladelobos]

Pablo, you can see the Z plates made by Ivo in Stonia Link (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=31220&postcount=35) is only one cut and two bends.
You can test with this, i have the plans in Acad. 8739

And can cut the Leo reductions drives Link (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=36673&postcount=252)

I think you selected the Motion King 34HS9801

[normand blais]

Hi Pablo maybe you would want to cut your company logo and use it as a branding iron . Dont forget to mirror

[PEU]

Ros, muy buena idea, voy a mandar a cortar 4 juegos de las reducciones de Castone! (good idea, I will order 4 sets of the Castone reductions) Do these reductions work for all axes?

Normand: you mean to stamp my work on the back for example?

Gracias/Thanks!

[normand blais]

Yes that is what I mean ,just heat with a torch and apply to the back of your work . also could be use on livestock if you ever get :)

[Sergio-k]

Yes that is what I mean ,just heat with a torch and apply to the back of your work . also could be use on livestock if you ever get :)

Hey, that's a nice idea :rolleyes:

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac106/sergiohelen/cow.jpg

:D:D:D

[domino11]

Would that not be a MilkMate? :):eek:

[MetalHead]

Ros,

Do you have a DXF for that Z plate?

[isladelobos]

8741

[cncb]

Would that not be a MilkMate? :):eek:

:D haha

[PEU]

Just returned from the expo, now I know that I know nothing about the woodworking industry :)

Found a lot of future providers for tooling, wood sheets, veneers etc etc etc I knew just a couple of them before going.

Took a lot of photos, will sort them and post the most interesting ones. I saw two routers being sold, none the size of the mechmate, they looked nice but not super high tech. Then I saw a Biesse, now we are talking, thats a heavy production machine, but at least 20~30 times more expensive than a MM :)

and regarding the shop/offices construction, today I received a call from Nokia-Siemens the local contractor for the phone company, they want my feedback about where to move that pairs box, I said as far as you can from my lot, but they said it has to be on my lot or it will take ages to get a new permit from the town, so I will try to find the best location.

Im really happy because I put a lot of effort to get that box moved, filed complains with every branch of the town council that has any saying about it, also with the phone company and also with the city ombudsman, it seems I got lucky. Its not moved yet, but now I see the light at the end of the tunnel :)

But nothing good comes without some bad news, not really bad, but the architect told me that the town keep asking for modifications to the blueprints, this means delays and more delays.

[MetalHead]

You should ask them if they can recess the pedistal down to ground level and put in a manhole cover.

[PEU]

asked and they can't, today I will talk again with the contractor asking if they can move it where I want, this is one of these situations where one needs to settle for the less problematic spot, there is no good spot.

[PEU]

Received the lasered parts. Someone in the order chain screwed it, take a look at the picture:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3624504/recibido.JPG

Someone needs fully bent spiders? I heard they eat iron ants :D Worst, they invoiced all 8... now they will need to issue credit.

Also they missed 5 parts:
10 20 451
10 20 452
10 30 422
10 40 372
10 40 387

but they didn't missed them in the invoice...

Good thing I'm in no hurry for these parts...


Pablo

[Johannescnc]

EEK! :eek: Are there enough spiders? :rolleyes:

[javeria]

you got entangled yourself is big spider web(mess) :)

[Gerald D]

Here, use this:

8914

[PEU]

LMAO...

Maybe I can donate them to combat these ants:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Carlos_Regazzoni_4.JPG/450px-Carlos_Regazzoni_4.JPG
thats a huge highway ad (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Regazzoni)

The Laser guys just replied, will make the remaining parts and issue credit, probably 10 or more days...

I need to start my shopping list, motors, drives, BB, etc...

[EDIT] I will cherry pick the most square one and return the others for scrap.

[Robert M]

Some alternatives !!

8915

8916

[Kobus_Joubert]

I use this, but cleaning after an incident is a big job..:eek:

[bradm]

Keep at least one of the spare spiders! The Y-car can hold two Z's if you are so inclined. If you were closer to me I'd try to get a spare from you as well.

[PEU]

I choosed 2 spiders from the lot, both of them are almost square, nothing that cannot be solved with a hammer and patience.

[MetalHead]

Brad I have spiders if you want one :D

[MetalHead]

Moved spiral tool messages to new thread

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=39539&postcount=1

[cvriv.charles]

So jealous. Your plans for starting a shop is exactly what I want to do. Except i am going to start in my garage. Which is pretty big. I'll have pics of it later down the road. But your so lucky. I wish you the best. And congrats on the baby.

[PEU]

Last friday a friend of mine whos company works for the telecom industry invited me to raid their old projects junk because they are moving to a new place, most of the stuff was telecom only and also old (doh!) but I managed to find interesting stuff:

cabinet (450x300x250mm) it also have a fan inside.

http://peu.net/mods/luis01
http://peu.net/mods/luis02

Also found a lot of rs-232 <> rs485 converters, new old stock in their boxes (and some more without boxes too):

http://peu.net/mods/luis03
http://peu.net/mods/luis04

I plan to keep a few and unload the rest at ebay, RAD is a quality brand. Money collected will go to purchase more MM parts :)

And below the converters are acrylic sheets I salvaged from some public phones panels, these are 500x250x6.5mm in milk colour and 500x130x6.5mm with some silk screening.


Pablo

[PEU]

all lasered parts finished:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3624504/todaslaspiezas.jpg

Received a quote from the local Motionking Dealer, for the 34HS9802 they ask $120+tax but these are backordered, not that bad compared to prices posted in the motionking thread (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=26299&postcount=123) will ask for a discount of course :)

[edit] Forgot to add, demolition will start in a week or two, and regarding the phone box in the street it should be gone by end of month if the phone company project division engineer didn't lied to me.


Pablo

[PEU]

I know its no big deal, but today I tested the fit in the Y carriage parts, I had a happiness rush seing that everything fits like a glove :)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3624504/carriagefits.jpg

:)


Pablo

[PEU]

Received first renders of shop, tree in the street is taller, wider and its not properly placed, its located on the left side of the front door.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3624504/rendervallejos1.jpg

[Kobus_Joubert]

Wow..nice...pity it will be full of dust someday.:D

[KenC]

I still remember the exitement the moment I collected my laser parts & just can't wait to toy around with it alllll day.

That is a good looking shop you have.

[cvriv.charles]

So nice. The appeareance of your facility alone will bring your business. So jealous. I wish you the best.

[Gerald D]

Does the appearance match the other buildings in the area? Is there a graffiti/vandal problem in that area? In other words, will your building become a target?

I know it only a render, but the light (white) colour is high maintenance to keep it looking smart.

[Gerald D]

Also, can people climb the tree to get on the balcony? If so, you are going to need better security at the top than at the bottom (nobody will see what the bad guys are doing on the balcony).

[cvriv.charles]

Also, can people climb the tree to get on the balcony? If so, you are going to need better security at the top than at the bottom (nobody will see what the bad guys are doing on the balcony).

Good point. White is hard to keep clean:) You know whats really ugly,... a steel light fixture or something rusting down the side of a building. Ewww.

And its also sad how people tag buildings because they stand out.

[cvriv.charles]

I dont mean to probe as to how much a place like that is costing you. You see plans and taste is very close to that of mine if not dead on. I am hoping that one day that I will be able to either buy or maybe even build a place such as the one your looking to build. I know nothing about such things though. I am going at it slowly. Im going to build several MM's first along with aquiring some other productive machines. Also, establishing clients. once I have that down tight, then maybe I would then next purchase a place, lease, maybe even build as you are.

Anyways,... my question is, does anyone know about what it would cost to build a place like this within the states? I know that it depends on soooo many things. I was wondering if anyone has or if anyone knows someone who has built a place? What about purchasing a place like that out right, about how much? Ballpark figure,... Thanks.

[PEU]

I was replying to a friend moments ago with about the same comments :)

The color won't be white for sure and Im still not sure if the glass, even being a multilaminate will be there without some kind of steel grating/fence, you know, thieves see glass and they think is breakable...

Regarding the balcony, there is always a possibility of someone climbing there, but it won't be easy.

Buildings around aren't as shiny, mostly because they aren't new, and grafitty is not a big problem, but you know the more shiny space you leave the more chances you get of being grafittied...

Regarding costs, Im sure in the states you can find a warehouse almost ready to be used, I wanted to have my office shop near home, thats why I choosed to have it in a neighborhood and not in an industrial zone.

[cvriv.charles]

Well,... im pretty sure I will definitely be need a large industrial type place. For machines, offices, and more importantly,... storage. But at the same time, I wouldnt mind a nice looking building though. Ehh one thing at a time. Maybe one day I could have both. A nice main head quarters building in a city/ town like area and an industrial type facility too.

My opinion about protecting your shop,... Its definitely a good idea to fortify your shop. But maybe in a way where it doesnt look like a prison? Instead of fixed bars over your windows you could have a retractable gate like fence that rolls away into the ceiling. This way you have protection at night but during the day its looks clean and professional, nice looking. Cameras are always good. Alarms etc. You know what I mean. It would just be a shame to have such a nice place and then bar it all up.

[swatkins]

These are last year prices around Houston Texas...

30' x 40' total metal building with 14 foot high walls, one entrance door, one 12' x 14' sectional door and one 10' x 10' sectional door and concrete slab......... 27,000.00

40' x 40' building with the same doors and wall height... 34,000.00

This is only the slab and metal exterior. No interior walls, plumbing or electrical.... Site work and dirt pad cost me about 2000.00 and I went with the 40 x 40

[cvriv.charles]

These are last year prices around Houston Texas...

30' x 40' total metal building with 14 foot high walls, one entrance door, one 12' x 14' sectional door and one 10' x 10' sectional door and concrete slab......... 27,000.00

40' x 40' building with the same doors and wall height... 34,000.00

This is only the slab and metal exterior. No interior walls, plumbing or electrical.... Site work and dirt pad cost me about 2000.00 and I went with the 40 x 40

Any pictures of it? I would like to see it. I am doing some waaaaaay in advance resesrch on buildings. Buying building etc. Thanks.

[swatkins]

Any pictures of it? I would like to see it. I am doing some waaaaaay in advance resesrch on buildings. Buying building etc. Thanks.

I will post some in my build thread Monday :)

[cvriv.charles]

Awesome:) Thank you so much.

[PEU]

Today I ordered 5x 9802 Motion King motors, they will be here by the end of june, I hope at that time also have the geckos.

[J.R. Hatcher]

Pablo, where did you order them from and how much did they cost (US)? Thanks J.R.

[PEU]

JR, purchased them from the local dealer here in Argentina, I contacted MK directly and they referred me to them. Considering shipping+custom duties the price was right.

[PEU]

5x gecko 203v ordered from Retromation Direct via their ebay account.

Now I will draw in solidworks Castone belt drive reduction then check against my CAD drawings and if everything is dandy I plan to order these materials too very soon.

I plan a trip to Florida/USA around June/15, any Floridian that wants to share some cold beers let me know :)

[PEU]

Just finished drawing and simulating Castone belt reduction, here is a short video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYumPNGrjmw

Motor is set to 100RPM
Reduction is 4.8 : 1 Ratio
Big pulley is 72 teeth
Small is 15 teeth


Now I'm going to order the parts :)

[PEU]

Bearings Ordered for the reductions and the grinding skate, found nice prices from an ebay dealer:

skate: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370342643434 (10x $8.94)
castone redutions: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370168966097 (10x $29.87)

Shopping spree continues :)

[PEU]

Now you see it, now you don't!

Telephone box in fron of lot was removed yesterday, demolition should start late this week

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3624504/vallejos-antes-despues.jpg

:)

Yesterday received a 2.2KW spindle +VFD for another project, but Im almost sure this one will end in my MechMate, its too big and heavy for the other machine (8.2Kg)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3624504/kinkda-spindle.JPG

[MetalHead]

So did the box come out completely? Or did they lower it into the street?

That probably added a lot of value to that property !!

[PEU]

they moved the box around the corner, they only left a service door at street level that it does not bother me, it can be seen in the photo, previously it was covered by the box.

I agree, the house lot to the left is 10m shorter (8.66x20m) and they ask $10K more than what I paid for mine.

[isladelobos]

Wow!! 8 Kg son muchos.

El coche de la fotografía, el de la izquierda, es toda una reliquia aquí en España es el Seat 127 (http://www.racingbenamorabe.es/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/seat-127.jpg) De fabricación Española, Aunque creo que también se comercializó el modelo como Fiat.

Al igual pasa por ejemplo en Sudáfrica, se comercializa aún el Volkswagen chico (http://www.national-namibia.com/images/chico_ncr.jpg) que es un modelo que se comercializó en Europa por los años 80 como Volkswagen Golf (http://www.cargurus.com/images/2008/07/27/08/09/pic-23013.jpeg).

Un saludo.

[PEU]

aqui se vendio siempre como fiat 147 y luego como fiat spazio.

Yes 8kg the spindle alone, hefty chunk of steel :) To refrigerate it I purchased a 2200L/hour (~600gal/hour) submergible pump at an aquarium store. Im still fighting with the VFD manual to make it work like I want, then I will move onto controlling it with the PC. I have a ton of RS485 tranceivers or maybe I purchase a cnc4pc C6 board, still unsure.

[PEU]

One question for the users of High Speed Spindles, I purchased a 2.2KW+VFD for another project but I will finally going to use for the MM, the spindle when turning does the typical whirling noise but this one also does an extra noise, gritty crackling noise.

I was told this should be gone with some warm up but Im not sure if this is normal or a defect in the bearings. Here is a small video I made: www.peu.net/temp/spindle-noise.avi Can ceramic bearings do this noise? I paid plus for FAG bearings but I don't know if they are ceramic or metallic
Can you guys give me an opinion?

Thanks
PS: If you peek at the background you will see MM lasered parts :D

[zumergido]

sound like a bearing problem to me.. move it by hand very slow and try to detect any vibration. sound like dirt on the bearings. typical problem.

[Sergio-k]

Does it make the same sound if you hold the spindle in a normal upright position ?

[PEU]

good question, I will be able to check this later today.

[Travish]

Sounds like the bearings. It could be that they are dry or have old grease in there. If the spindle has sat for a long period of time, getting lube in there from may take some time to slowly warm the spindle up up by running it slow. Either way, you will be getting in there to replace them sooner or later. I would run it in the upright position so if there is any grease in there it will have a chance to spread the lube around.

Good luck.

[PEU]

today I ran it slowly for about an hour and then at 18000RPM for about 4 hours, the noise decreased substantially but its still there, Im not sure if the right thing to do is ask for a replacement or keep it. Will ask for the exact bearing model and research if its common to have that noise.

[PEU]

I agreed with the seller, they will send a new one at half price, they pay shipping and I keep this one as a backup unit, fair solution I think.

On the shopping side of things I already have at my USA friend the following items:

5x gecko 203v
5x parts for castone reductions + 1 extra belt just in case, this includes flanged bearings
1x PMDX 125 + flat cables
1x PMDX 107 spindle speed control

What else should I buy in the states to save money? this question is aimed at overseas MM'ers that have to buy stuff only available in USA.

[riesvantwisk]

Pablo,

I didn't look back at your thread, but I had to buy or planning to buy:

- Racks, I bought these in Japan, quality in Ecuador was really bad or 50..150usd/meter
- Pinion, also from Japan (you mentioned you have that...)
- Flexible cables for steppers, I had to use normal 4 core cable, un-shielded
- Cable chain
- Gas-spring
- How odd it may seem, a fully soldered printer cable of some length, you have flatcable already I do read...
- Small form factor computer to run EMC or Mach, so it can be build into the control box (I use a laptop)
- Various bits for your spindle (I can only get HSS here..)
- Transformer to drive your steppers/gecko's (I bought from Antek in the US)
- Proximity sensors, ridiculous expensive here at 150USD each I was told, didn't look further and use micro switches.
- Turbine for a vac system if you are planning to make one instead of buy one.
- Gauge plate, I used a substitute that was straight enough :D
- V Rollers if you don't want to make them (I think you have them though....)
- Good shielded ball barings, I am using normal ball barings, I will just reply more often (they where 1.25 usd each)
- Teflon washers (I am now using some self cut plastic...)


Some items we just didn't look good enough because they where easy to make
Other items we asked around, and decided to substitute, or just leave out.
The above list is just a list of items I wanted to buy here, but bought somewhere else or was not important enough for me to have.

hope it helps.

[PEU]

Thanks Ries!

Today while playing and configuring the VFD (already configured external on/off control and 0-10v speed control) I saw the need of a visual flow indicator. So I made a design that could be machined on 1/4" acrylic using just a 1/8" endmill

Here is an animation of it, tomorrow I will post the gcode for the parts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puKDPkP77Ys

Intake and Outake need to be drilled to desired size after assembly and gluing.

Suggestions are encouraged :)

[PEU]

Here is the G-Code, its in milimeters, also included the DXF if someone wants to modify it a little. Its designed for 1/4" acrylic and a 1/8" cutter.

Here is my 1st try, not as transparent I wished, but I managed to make it visible by burning the acrylic a little:

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/4456/img6060d.jpg

[PEU]

nice isnt it? well, it does not work :D at least not with my pump pressure, I will make a new one based on this design:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/414m4SUmdjL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[Sergio-k]

Pablo
I don't know why this flowmeter didn't work for your setup but i ordered
this one for mine : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230480504472&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

You can give it a try or wait till i receive it and test it for you :D

[PEU]

nice isnt it? well, it does not work :D at least not with my pump pressure, I will make a new one based on this design:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/414m4SUmdjL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Another try, this one is better, BUT, sometimes the helix does not start to turn...

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/740/flowmeter2.jpg

[PEU]

Check the video I made when I visited Nils (SailFL) at his place in Orlando last week:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D42LLgTdhwk

On the building side of things, now I have the electronics to build the control box and also the belt and pulleys for the reductions. I have to check with the stepper motors dealer but they should be here too.
After seeing Nils control box I will source a bigger one and start working

:)

[KenC]

Pablo,
Control box is never too big. No matter how big it gets, you will alway have space to stow them away by the MM. Go for the biggest you can find you will never regret this..

[sailfl]

Pablo,

Thanks for taking and posting the video. Very nice job.

Yes, you can never have a large enough control box. For those in the USA, I purchased mine from FactoryMation, Part #: SCE-30EL2008LP, it is 30" H, 20" W and 8" Deep.

Nice flow meter, Pablo.

[PEU]

Finished it Nils:

Routed the borders both sides, then sprayed black and radioactive yellow/green. On the standing side sprayed grippex spray (grip spray by mmp) and then a couple of layers of transparent coating.

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/1521/img0039ys.jpg

On the bottom I CNC'ed a stencil with my initials :)

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9656/img0038wv.jpg


I like it :D

[Gerald D]

Now we need a photo of you riding that board

[sailfl]

Pablo,

Looks great but the second photo is not showing. Thanks for posting the photos.

How long do you think it will look that good?

The next one lets cut a design into the surface and epoxy with colored resign.

[PEU]

Here is second photo reuploaded, I'm sure this week end even with almost 0C temperature we will go someplace to test it with my son and I will snap a picture of me on top of it :D

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7013/img0038hc.jpg

Nils, Im not sure, I was generous with the coatings, only time will tell.

[sailfl]

Pablo,

Looks great.

[PEU]

After seeing Nils Control box I discarded the idea of using the one I got for free, yesterday I purchased an IP65 Box of 45x75x16cm (17.7 x 29.5 x 6.3in) I can dance insede of it if I leave it flat on the floor :D

So far I added to my previous purchases:

1x Control Box
5x gecko 203v
5x pulleys/belts for Castone reductions
10x Lip bearings for reductions
5x lasercut parts for reductions (5x inside and 5x outside)
1x PMDX 125 BoB
1x PMDX 107 spindle speed control
20x bearings for grinding skate and other purposes
75x DIN rail connectors in five different assorted colors
5x 4mm NPN NO open proximity sensors
5x 9802 Motion King Motors

The reason for going 5X for critical parts is "just in case sh!t happens" being 10000km away from the replacements makes me nervous, so the extra unit is for peace of mind :)

On the Shop construction, there in not much to be shown, very few advances sadly :(


Pablo

[PEU]

3rd time I nailed it, the flow indicator works like a charm, instead of using a propeller I used small plastic balls, please don't laugh, the ones that small kids use for making toy necklaces :D :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCS4V-xS7RM

inside the circular pocket there is an extra groove with the form of a curl that helps make some turbulence around the pocket.

Acrylic is sealed with a small amount of silicone, I will make a few more of these, but next time I will use an oring instead of silicone.


This one is part of a mod I did for the machines I sell.

[domino11]

Reminds me of the ones they use on gas pumps in the US! Nicely done!

[PEU]

Continuing from this post about the microwave transformer.
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2956

Quote was 250 pesos/USD62 (copper wire+labor)for a complete rework of the transformer, the guy will remove the primary also and keep only the lamination, I asked 34v20a 9v2a and 4v2a to get 48,12 and 5vdc, based on the preliminary calculations he did, maybe I can realistically get 34v18a.

When I receive it I will have all my ducks in a row:

transformer+capacitor+diode bridge=power supply
PMDX125
5x gecko
5x motors
contactor
din rails
din connectors in assorted colors
slotted cable guides
meters of 1.5mm cable in assorted colors
proximity sensors

I don't have the door switch but it wont stop me to finally do my control box.

:)

[sailfl]

Pablo,

While you got nothing to do while your MM cuts, you can watch the little balls go around. Almost as good as TV these days.

[MetalHead]

Better :D

[qroger]

Pablo
Greetings I have been following your progress. Here, (east coast of USA), one can buy out-of-service marine containers, 8' x 8' x 40' water tight, steel etc. for. less than $4000.00 US. If allowed, you could stack these 10 high! Somebody is shipping these to China, turning them into apartments, shipping back to England, stacking up as apartment building! Crazy!

Be very careful with your building foundations, especially if you are still thinking basement. Your neighbors all look like they have masonry walls. Here, any little crack brings out the lawyers. I hope you find buried Inca gold and loose diamonds once you start construction.
http://www.coronadomobilestorage.com/containers-for-sale/

[qroger]

Pablo!
I wanted to make sure you know I was suggesting you use the marine containers for your shop, Not for control box! Containers are 8' x 8', 8' x 10', 10', 20' 40' long, maybe even refrigerated. Most of the load is carried in the corners, you can put doors and windows through the walls if you have a torch. http://www.archicentral.com/12-container-house-maine-usa-adam-kalkin-7881/

[PEU]

There are plenty of these containers here, but I will build a proper shop :)

Started with the power supply, the guy that was going to rewind my microwave transformer suggested me that for $10 more (for a total of 300 pesos/ $75) he can build a new transformer from scratch, so thats what I got now: primaries for 210/220/230v and secondaries 24/9.5/4

the idea of having 3 primaries is that I can increase/lower the output if I use 210v or 230v (powerline here is 220v)

Here is my ghetto testing of the transformer, my aim was 48v, so Im pretty happy with 47v (tested without load)

Off topic, I attempted to measure with a digital caliper while the transformer was powered and when I aproached it the caliper began to oscilate/vibrate and I was about one inch away, tried other metals and that did not happen, weird and funny fact.

Now I have a question for MMers with finished control boxes, why the transformer is always on the top side? This thing weights 7kg (15lbs) my common sense says it would be better sitting it on the lower part of the cabinet. The reason is heat?

Thanks

[smreish]

My choice for using the top was I wanted to keep the connnections for the mains and the drivers at the bottom. Thus, easier to route short wires to the terminal strips on the bottom than more wires in the cabinet up the sides.

Heat really isn't an issue with the transformer.

Sean

[riesvantwisk]

Pablo,

that looks like a much better price then the toroid for 170USD, my quote for a transformer here in Ecuador was 130USD + tax.

your 47V will drop a bit with load, but nothing to be concerned of.

I agree with Sean, mostly you need the bottom for all cables and indeed heat is not a issue with transformers, if yours get warm/hot like mine transformer did (build in Ecuador) then it's not a good one and you need to return it.

[KenC]

Connect some light bulbs as dummy load & you can measure the loaded voltage. I recon series up a few light bulbs of ~300W total should do the trick.

[domino11]

A parallel combination would load the transformer better. If they are 120V bulbs. :)

[PEU]

Got my remaining capacitors and also locally found the cabinet switch, not ensto, the brand is Zoloda.

Im trying to settle on a layout, so far this is my choice:

http://a.imageshack.us/img148/1016/img1104h.jpg

The drivers are in two rows, the row of three is elevated at about the top level of the row of two.

I need to make a PCB for the multipower supply (48vdc/12vdc and 5vdc) to hold the caps and the regulators for 12 and 5v. Im thinking of adding a thermal switch before the door switch.

Suggestions are welcome :)

[riesvantwisk]

Pablo,

I am sure you won't forget, but I am not seeing a Cooling Fan for under/around the gecko's.

The layout you are using is the 'standard' Mechmate layout, I use the same.
Except that I could place all Gecko's in one line.
Placing them in one line makes it a tad easer for wiring.

I did run the power of the gecko's all on the left site, and the control lines to the gecko a smutch is possible to the right. Either crossing power and control lines, or in parallel at some distance to minimize cross-over signals from power to control.

Some additional detail. My control lines from Bob To Gecko are shielded, but not connected to GND (GND of the BoB that is). Because the BoB Doesn't have a easy place to add shielding for control cables, at least with my 122 type BoB. SO far, I have zero issues, but I don't have a spindle which are more electrical noisy.

Lastly, and I am sure you know... the Bob + control cables will not get grounded to the case, just through the parallel cable of the PC. The same goes for the power supply of the BoB that will not get grounded to the Chassis.

[PEU]

No, I did not forgot, but Im planning going fanless for the geckos, each one will have a piece of 10mm aluminum bolted to them (photo) and this piece will be bolted to a 25mm chunk of alu, IMHO there is plenty of dissipation there to go fanless, if its not enough I would like to read why.

http://a.imageshack.us/img814/8679/img1105a.jpg

I can put all the geckos in one line, but the space between them is pretty small, so I went for two rows, one alternative to this layout would be to put the top row with the connectors to the opposite side to allow easy connection.

Regarding control lines, what I did when I made my 1st control box for another cnc router was to braid them, same concept as ethernet cable.

And finally regarding BOB ground, yes, there are big notes on the pmdx125 manual about what to do and what not to do regarding gnds

Thanks for the comments.

[riesvantwisk]

Pablo,

Glad you are up to speed there, expected... just wanted to mention...

About the alu block, it's been a been long time since I had to do any calculations on (mainly power supplies), but her is my theory :)

The block will cool as long as it's cold, but as soon the block get's warm they cannot dissipate the heat because the surface area is fairly small compared to there size.
Even if you put a fan on it, it will take a lot more time untill the heat is removed from the alu block once it's there, I don't know anymore how well Aluminium transports heat...

That said, I just used a 6mm alu plate with a fan underneath and the works like a charm.
The gecko's don't get to warm because the operate mostly in the digital domain,
but I do noticed they need some cooling.

Ries

[PEU]

Bad heat conductors do what you mention, thats why there are cooking pans made of thick cast iron, they keep the heat very well.

AFAIK aluminum is one of the best heat conductors and in the same price range only surpassed by copper and silver. Regarding the Alu 25mm bars I can help the heat spreading by milling slots on them, less alu more dissipation surface, a good treadeoff methinks... just an idea :)


Pablo

[riesvantwisk]

pablo,

if you make a tube out of them, then you can put one of these micro fan's in the hole ;)
I am very rusty on these subject.... Hope it's doesn't bug you!

[domino11]

Pablo,
The large mass of alu will give you a large thermal mass. This means that when you couple heat to it it will take longer to heat up. The problem is as Ries mentioned is that once it is hot, it is the surface area that will transfer the heat to the ambient air. That is why heatsinks always have fins, or pins, or some surface treatment like that that will increase surface area to help couple the heat to the ambient air. Airflow, from a fan or whatever, will aid in the heat transfer

[KenC]

Pablo, heat is energy & it can't be created nor destroy, since we don't convert this waste heat to other form of useful energy, we will have to dissipate or dump them into the atmosphere.
Since the heat source is encased within the control box heat will have to pass on to the control box in order to dump into the atmosphere.
Without fan you can only rely on natural air convection current inside the box, conduction through physical metal contact and radiation to "pass-on" the heat to the control box external casing & then "pass-on" to the atmosphere.

Thicker AL doesn't dissipate faster, it only store more heat like a bigger reservoir, to dissipate faster, you need more contact surface. and ideal heat sink is one that is zero thickness with huge surface area. hence you see fins on "real" heat sink. Milling your bar does increase the total surface area.

Also remember that paint is not a good heat conductor so it does contribute heat insulation effect. Having a fan increases the convection heat transfer drastically.

Another note, heat is electronics worst enermy... adding a fan helps... a lot... adding one isn't much trouble to you, I'm sure.

If you must do fanless, alternative is to have the heatsink pertruding outside of the control box or use a heat pipe (just a piece of solid metal such as al or cu)to pipe the heat to an external heat sink. It can just dump the heat to the atmosphere without going through the air within the control box & the control box.

[PEU]

OK OK :) a good gentleman recognizes when he is wrong :) will mill slots on the alu bar but also will add a fan below them. Thanks for the input!

[Richards]

Pablo,

1/4" thick aluminum is sufficient, but I use 1" aluminum at my test bench. The Geckodrive G203v are usually used with motors that can pull 4.5A and they hardly get warmer than room temperature. The aluminum bar is about 16" long X 3.5" high (I'm away from the test bench, so I can't measure it). It was just a piece of aluminum that I had on hand.

Thinner is better and fins are best, but unless you really pull some amps through your motors, I don't think you'll have any heat problems.

[PEU]

But you do use a fan or not Mike?

[qroger]

On my last tour through the scrap yard I saw some aluminum grate. Holes were about 1cm x 3cm with intervening web approximately 6mm. I wondered if that was thermally connected to outside of case if it would keep inside of case down to ambient?

[riesvantwisk]

Pablo,

I use a fan, my Gecko's do get a bit warm (more then hand warm) under some circumstances. I am not sure what altitude you are (I am at 2400 meters) there is somewhat less air so they tend to get a bit warmer, and since I am in Ecuador a average tempreature sometimes in the workshop of 22-26 doesn't always help well.
To be honest, better save then sorry and specially in the beginning there are other things to really worry about then heat of the Gecko's, so I added the fan on the gecko's, my 110V fan did cost me 6USD I believe.

Ken a heatpipe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pipe) is usually used to transfer heat of much higher temperature, for power amplifiers for example. They are liquide filled pipes with metal wires to make optimum contact to surface area. heat is transferred because the liquid inside starts to evaporate and condensate other other place and thus transfer heat. They are not simple pipes!!

[KenC]

Ries,
I recon the wiki isn't complete;). To my interpretation, heat pipe/thermosyphon can be just simple pipes/rods, any media dedicate to facilitate heat transfer from one point to another is considered as heat pipe. having fluid doing the job is one way & a solid or hollow metal of high thermal conductivity is another, even gas are used (air-conditioner).
With liquid & gas media, the medium "carry" the heat; with solid, heat conducts from higher temp to lower temp.
our coolant pipe is a heat pipe & for computer cooling, the solid copper rod connecting to an external radiator acts as heat pipe too.
Eventually, heat are dumped into the atmosphere air via convection+conduction. with a fan blowing, we can use smaller surface are then natural convection required. Spraying the heat sink black will help in the radiation department (like car radiator).

[Richards]

Pablo,

I don't use a fan, but the normal temperature of my test bench work area is 75F. The G203v is rated to 70C, but should be kept to 50C for best life expectancy.

As others have said, a thinner piece of aluminum (1/4") with a fan will remove heat faster than a thick piece of aluminum with or without a fan.

If the baseplate of the G203v gets to 50C, it's time to rethink the heatsink. The same can be said for the transformer and other electrical devices. The toroidal transformer that I use rarely gets more than ten degrees warmer than ambient, but a standard transformer, rated exactly the same, is too hot to touch under the same load. Because of that, I don't use standard transformers. That's another reason that I tend to underrate the power supply voltage from the formula (32 X SQRT(Inductance)) by about 15% to 25%. I prefer the stepper motors to only get moderately warm, not hot.

The nice thing about building your own controller is that you can easily modify anything that needs modification. If you were building controllers for resale, you would want to find the "perfect" heatsink for your application, but as the designer of a single unit, you can change the heatsink anytime that you desire with minimal cost.

[karlmc15]

please upload oringer file in Solidworks because i couldnt edit EAMS files , thanks

[domino11]

What file are you referring to?

[PEU]

check this post Karl: http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17770&postcount=29

[PEU]

Here is a "non" update, antiupdate you may call it :)

My progress with the new shop is ZERO, after almost a year of purchasing the lot, and many promises that the permits would be ready, they are not ready, so I don't even moved a brick from the lot, sad as it sounds the only progress was the removal of the phone box in the middle of the lot...

The person who was doing the permit with the city no longer answers my calls, Im frustrated to say the less, not only with him but with the city too, they put so many obstacles its insane, opening a new shop in the Federal District is becoming more difficult day by day...

Anyway, Im still around, Im still interested in making my MM, but I still dont know WHEN, in the meantime I keep learning, and thats positive!


Pablo

[Johannescnc]

In the US I called it "Red tape". The Govt has an endless supply of it. Seems they have nothing better to do than hinder progress. But don't pay them for this or that, and they will be right there to let you know... :rolleyes:

[qroger]

Perhaps you need an expert to guide you through the jungle. In some countries I guess this amounts to a bribe. In the U.S. at the last resort you hire a lawyer which feels like blackmail. It is a specialized skill set though, so biblically, Matthew 10:10 says "A workman is worthy of his hire". So long as they don't bleed you dry, you at least get your shop.
Good luck!

[PEU]

The "expert" does not return my calls, this guy is not worth a dime :mad: so now I only talk to the architect who referred him to me, anyway one way or another I will have a new place... the big question is when :)

[KenC]

Looks like official the world around love to make their present felt by wholesaling red tapes... No exception in my place too...

[Jan de Ruyter]

A few quotes:

A bureaucrat is someone who can invent more problems he can actually solve himself.

The interpretation of the rules and procedures should normally be linked to some level of intelligence.

[exflaco]

But you do use a fan or not Mike?

Me gustaria contactarme ,ya construi 2 maquinas cnc pero pequeñas una la joe 2006 tal vez la viste por la web,me gustaria saber si las partes cortadas laser y el plegado son de aqui de Argentina ,exelente el trabajo de solid un abrazo y desde ya gracias

[PEU]

Si, son cortadas aca, estoy de vacaciones ahora, mandame otro mensaje mas cerca de fin de mes. Saludos

[exflaco]

Pablo te molesto de nuevo, me podrias dar una mano con esta exelente maquina.Si te sirve tengo bastante experiencia en electronica ,tal vez te sirve,gracias

[PEU]

Hola, te aclaro que yo aun no tengo la maquina armada, que es lo que necesitas?

Las partes me las cortaron aca en el gran buenos aires, pero seguro por alla tambien debe haber quien las corte. Motores podes comprar en www.lineartec.com.ar o www.varitel.com.ar, o si queres los motionking que muchos usan en este foro tenes un proveedor tambien. Drivers y placa interfase yo los traje de USA, los compre en www.pmdx.com y las poleas para la reduccion tambien, pero si buscas aca seguro encontras, pinon y cremallera conseguis en www.newrank.com.ar y las ruedas en V a mi me las hacen en un torno CNC como favor asi que no tuve que preocuparme por eso.
En cuanto al hierro estructural, pedi varias cotizaciones porque la variacion de precios es importante.

Luego es ponerle el hombro e ir armando todo de a poco, yo hasta no tener lugar no puedo hacer nada, ya tengo absolutamente todo lo necesario para armar la maquina, solo me falta espacio.

Saludos

[exflaco]

Te agradezco muchisimo la ayuda,ya tengo los motores drivers,y aqui cortan por chorro de agua ,y comenzaria por el accesorio para amoladora y los doble rulemanes en v,si me puedes enviar el archivo de corte por torno cnc de los rulemanes,los podria fabricar en la universidad o de un amigo que tiene torno cnc. Me parece que eso es lo primero piñon y cremalleras aqui tb hay ,se me ocurria ponerle o correa dentada o cadena y piñon,pues son mas silenciosos y router tengo maquita de los grandes,ya construi 2 maquinas y estan funcionando las dos una la construi con mi primer maquina y fue todo mas censillo,esta me parece una de las mejores que pude ver en internet.

[PEU]

no tengo el codigo de las ruedas, yo les di los planos y ellos se ocupan del resto, cualquier persona que sepa manejar un torno cnc te lo hace en 5 minutos al codigo

[PEU]

Because my new place permits never materialized I will have to delay my build, this time I don't know for how long, so I'm selling some parts, maybe someone else here in Argentina can use them to build faster. This does not mean I'm leaving, I'll keep learning here, the time will come!

Now in spanish:

Tengo estas partes para vender, las mismas estan a lo que me costaron, incluso las que compre en USA estan a costo de USA:

Reducciones Castone, partes laser (4 pares) $370
Bujes roscados 1/4" para las reducciones (16x) $100
Rulemanes para reduccion (8x): $150
Poleas y correas (SDP/SI de USA) (4 kits) $540 (Drive Pulley: A 6A 3-15DF03716 / Driven Pulley: A 6A 3-45NF03716 / Belt: A 6R 3-054037 )
Motores MotionKing 9802 (c/u) $492
Kit Laser MechMate completo $1500 (ver fotos en posts anteriores)

Los precios estan en pesos (divide by 4 for USD) y puedo hacer factura A si les sirve, hay que adicionar el IVA (21%) en ese caso.

Puedo enviar a todo el pais por expreso previo deposito bancario

Me pueden contactar a: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3624504/pablou.png

Gracias!


Pablo

[zumergido]

pablo lamento tu venta. esto es un gran paso hacia atras. las partes laser estan completas con el skate?

[PEU]

Nada que lamentar, se hace lo que se puede y hay veces, como esta, en que la solucion no depende de uno sino de algun burocrata... Probablemente me termine haciendo un router un poco mas pequeño para el lugar actual que tengo y mas adelante encarare el mechmate cuando disponga de lugar.

Si, todo el kit completo, fijate hay fotos en mensajes de hace unos meses atras.