Change in serial numbers . . . . . .

[Gerald D]

Okay, hope that most realised the serial number allocation was a light-hearted thing. On the suggestion of a veteran member, a separate section will be created for machines already cutting. I will stop the emphasis on painting and logo - the only criteria will be the machine's ability to cut or write something.

However, I would still allocate #9 and #10 for those wanting numbers, but no more after that.

[sailfl]

Gerald,

I hope that I will be able to claim one of those numbers. If I can get my butt moving a little faster, I should be able to do it. There isn't much left to do.

Thanks

[domino11]

Darn,
All the numbers will probably be gone by the time I have mine cutting. :eek::(

[J.R. Hatcher]

Number 4 is for sale, not the MechMate just the number. :rolleyes::D

[Greg J]

Gerald,

I hope that I will be able to claim one of those numbers. If I can get my butt moving a little faster, I should be able to do it. There isn't much left to do.

Thanks


Nils,

Don't sacrifice quality for speed. You can have 13, if numbers run out.

[Gerald D]

Hey guys, I didn't realise there is this much attachment to the numbers!:o

My dilemna is that the numbers are not an indicator of quality. Whereas most numbered machines are well built, there are some that could be better. And then there are some nice machines already cutting (even nicely painted :)) that don't have a number. It is this latter group of MM's that prompted our thoughts to have a separate forum area for completed machines. Eg. Hugo in Venezuela, GrandPi in France, and not to forget my own machines in Cape Town. :). The machine of David truecnc was close to getting the automatic serial number. . . . thank goodness it didn't.:eek:

Either numbers get allocated automatically (blue+logo+cutting) or get allocated on sequential "quality" builds. Snag is, I don't want to see a public discussion of whether someone's effort was good enough. Some of us are equipped and experienced to produce quality, while others deserve a bigger reward for climbing a steeper learning curve and putting in more effort.

[hennie]

Point taken.Can I PLease book # 12 or the # 15 if no one objects.O and #20>30 "need to do something with the left over paint.:D

[Gerald D]

Another possibility would be to continue the numbers on a fun basis, to the current "rules", but not to have them as sticky posts on top of this thread. Then we can have 2 topics; "Under Construction" and "Already Cutting", with some of the machines in the latter topic carrying numbers. (No sticky threads either side). How would this go down?

[lunaj76]

I like that idea.

[J.R. Hatcher]

I would be satisfied with either one.

[domino11]

Gerald,
Either way sound good to me too. I just like the idea of a serial number so you belong to the family. :) Sorta like a membership card.

[Greg J]

Gerald,

Very good points. Either way sounds fine.

On a side note: My wife is having a tough time at her work. So I filled her in on the S/N issue here and let her know what "real" problems are. :)

[Doug_Ford]

Either way sounds good to me too.

[William McGuire]

"Some of us are equipped and experienced to produce quality, while others deserve a bigger reward for climbing a steeper learning curve..."

Good discussion, guys. I have started my machine after a couple of years on this forum, and fall into the latter catagory. In my sixty one years I have never welded, fabricated, or built anything like this before.

Yesterday I threaded some square bar, cut some angle and flat iron... and welded them together. I now have four parts which fit perfectly into some laser holes and will be used for proximities and stops...

Couldn't describe how good it felt to actually have bolts fit into homemade threads... and to have done this on an $89 drill press and a $50 garage sale wirefeed welder... and using the expertise of a bunch of guys who have been doing this most of their lives.

So for me, the education I am receiving ( I can now actually convert millimeters to inches in my head) and the accomplishment of actually building this beast is ample reward... thanks to all you guys...

[Gerald D]

Bill, you made my day :) (especially with the millimeters!:D)

Okay, the two forum approach has been adopted - see the new front page (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/index.php) layout.

[sailfl]

Gerald,

I don't care where you put my thread once I am done as long as you give me a number. I still want a number.......

[Johannescnc]

Seems that it is about more than numbers here. I see many members having some pride in the whole MechMate contribution group. MechMate family? :rolleyes:

[Kobus_Joubert]

I was worried there for a while. I am VERY proud of my number 6....Everybody completing a MM should have his number....just like a little golden star on the forehead you got at primary school....man I feel good...

[sailfl]

(Moved From Another Thread)
He can have the serial number he wants. Others have received serial numbers out of order. When you work on these machines, you should be able to pick as long as it isn't used.

[bradm]

Nils, I think I disagree with you.

The serial numbers convey some extra information about the approximate order in which the machines were completed - and thus their relative age and technology. It also helps us know how many machines there are.

If we start allowing any number, all kinds of problems pop up. Does it have to be an integer? Can it be huge? Can it be negative? And, to be pedantic, it won't be a SERIAL number if it's not assigned in a serial manner. It becomes more of a fashion statement number.

So, I like the idea of letting people wait a bit if they have an eye on a number that is coming up soon. But picking any old unused number is a step onto a slippery slope.

[dragonfinder1]

Scott, Dennis and I waited until all three of ours were finished before we asked for numbers. If I would have asked for a number when I finished mine it would have been in the mid 20's

[rotorzoomer]

From purely a very deep psychological point of view and as an incentive to complete MM builds one should be able to select from a POOL OF NUMBERS e.g. 0 - 99 then 100 - 199 e.t.c.

When i selected my mobile / cell phone number i spent nearly 1 hour in the store going through a pool of numbers. Call me crazy but numbers are important to people and it would add extra excitement to the MM knowing the pot of gold is waiting.

I reckon you might even be able to flush out those hundreds of builds never registered.

[sailfl]

We are going to disagree about this but I am sorry this is not that important. Some one move this topic to a new thread so that we don't tie up Jimmy's thread. Others have received numbers out of order. It isn't like we have 100s or 1000s of numbers.

[MetalHead]

Well the way I see it (Which means a lot :D ) is that the SN's are given out in order. If you want to wait for a number that is fine, but I will not skip ahead to give out a number. You just have to make sure I have a heads up about the number WHEN it is available. I won't recall 6 months back.

I hope to see the SN in the 100 and 1000 some day :D

[sailfl]

Mike,

That is fine if you want to change the way numbers are given out but that is not what has happened in the past and it only happened a few times because some one wanted a special number. Check the log.

[Gerald D]

I started serial numbering as something light-hearted, and didn't think that folk would get so serious about it. Being a casual thing, I had no problems in folk wanting to skip a few numbers. Then some folk wanted to reserve numbers, and I didn't think this was fair. It became obvious that some people are taking this serial number issue a lot more seriously than what I was happy to go along with, and quite frankly it became a bit of a pain to keep track. John Higgins stepped in to help keep a register. Before I passed the baton to Mike, I was on the verge of making an autocratic decision that numbers will stop at 100.

The numbers seem a bit meaningless to me and our 5 assembled machines are not numbered. I know of a couple of machines that have had decals, been numbered, and then had the decals stripped off to render them incognito, due to fear of competitors building the same equipment. (notice how some photos of members are cropped to avoid showing the empty number space :))

[rotorzoomer]

We must not forget that MechMate is a brand and any ideas no matter how ridiculous will either add or subtract to what that brand stands for.

Custom serial numbers offers a feeling of customization but it's just a small part of a whole story that is deliberately built into the equation when trying to build a brand.

Even crazy ideas of giving your MM a nickname can be fun along side your serial number. See how Kobus_Joubert refers to his machine as BBB, its a lot of fun to see and can help differentiate the forum from others.

[rotorzoomer]

Gerald,

Your comment about people taking the serial number issue too seriously excited me because it reminded me about what i tell people when they come to me about marketing a product...QUOTE: "We have no idea what to do with this thing you just invented, so we will just release it into the market and let the world decide how it is to be used and what it is to become"

Things that are seemingly meaningless to some can be an obsession to others.

[Kobus_Joubert]

I am PROUD to have a number and now with all this discussion will put my PROUDLY #6 on my machine...maybe a BBB as well just for the fun of it.;)

[bradm]

<chuckle> I should have known better than to go near this.

Nils, I'm happy to agree to disagree, and still be friends.

I'm all in favor of the light-hearted, pragmatic approach - whatever works.

But the real reason for this post is that I'm very amused at the idea of capping the serial numbers. IIRC, Gerald tried this approach once in the past - I think the last "final" number he announced was approximately 1/10th of 100. It turned into a good motivator for some of us, and led to a discussion about continuing the numbers.

I suspect that declaring serial numbers to be ending soon will always create a surge in activity followed by a request to continue the tradition. We humans are funny critters.

[dragonfinder1]

I think the lure of a serial number is valid, and I think it helps one keep on track during the building process. It's kind of a carrot to help one want to finish the MM.

When we sell where we are now and move into new quarters, probably next summer, I will build another MM as solely as an indexer. I don't think I'll ask for a S/N for that one. I don't have any competition in my area and the other two here are making products I don't want to make anyway. I don't make a living with my MM, it's nice to make enough to pay for the cutters and wood, but I would buy those things anyway.

[sailfl]

Brad,

I just don't think it is so important that we have to make a big issue over it. We can agree to disagree - two software guys are never going to agree on every thing.

I am proud of my number 12. Building one of these machines has been one of the best things I did. I wish I was making more money with it.

[Greg J]

My official number is 13. But check the build log and you'll see that it should have been number 7 or 8, or something like that. Back then, putting all that effort into the MM build, having a SN was important. Don't ask me why I wanted 13 instead of a lower number. I'm just goofy that way.

Today, I could care less about the SN. I'm having a blast operating the MM and fabricating cool "things". As Gerald always said, he wanted to see a dirty / dusty / MM. Although, with a 3 hp (5 hp peak :rolleyes:) cyclone dust control system, my MM is pretty clean. :)

[KenC]

IMHO, skipping serial number is a bad idea... Its like jumping queue... & will get many offended along with this practice...
Building my MM is top my "BEST-THINGS-I-EVER-DID-TO-MY-LIFE-LIST".
Honestly, during the build, earning a serial number seem ever so important, but after a very brief while after I made first dust, I just could not care any lesser. What is really important to me now is this community & my MM making noise in the background while I'm typing this post :)

#PS, I'd yet to put on the Decal successfully after 5 tries... it is really difficult for me...

[riesvantwisk]

Working towards the serial number was a huge drive for me to work on it 3 times a week. To make it cutting, make it dust and make it work as expected and more!

I think we should continue with the numbers, for a lot of people, as I understand can be the same drive.

For people that don't want a serial, that's fine by me...
For people that do want a serial, they get it in order as they have been given out. No skipping, no picking free numbers. serial=serial+1;

Just my 2 cents.

[Gerald D]

I remember a case (or two?) where I read in a thread that a machine had qualified and gave it a number. And then in another thread a few minutes later, saw that another machine had qualified, but the time of the actual post was earlier than that of the first machine. I just gave the next number and hoped that nobody would make an issue.

At my company, we also allocate serial numbers to our products. There we also sometimes fiddle the numbers a bit; If a customer wants 5 identical machines he will get 5 sequential serial numbers, even if all his machines were not built sequentially (we produce a range of models and options).

[Gerald D]

Maybe Mike should sell serial number plates?

[Kobus_Joubert]

Gerald, what is this.... OLD AGE or what, up so early.
I was called to work at 03:15 and I think THAT is a valid excuse for checking the forum this time of day. :D

[Gerald D]

Actually, my days of 4am posts are getting fewer. I don't have to worry about checking who finished their MM's while I was sleeping! :D

[hennie]

I remember in the days when I did my MM, I was up early checking what happened during the night.Now my MM is nameless because of the competition thing.I had a walk in two days ago trying to set up a cutting service in my area with a 600x1000 machine.If I had my name on it,it would have been a dead give away.Lucky my MM was cutting alu so this oak was so impressed with what I was doing and because of the size of the MM I think he folded his machine up and put it in his pocket and walked out with tail in between his legs.:)

[smreish]

..Funny, I once kept track to see if we were going to get to 5000 posts on the counter. It's a few more now!

[MetalHead]

... Funny I count New users every day :D ...

[mrghm]

Maybe Mike should sell serial number plates?

i vote for this or even a cut file that can be down loaded and cut by the mechmate once it is up and running.

[PEU]

The numbers seem a bit meaningless to me and our 5 assembled machines are not numbered. I know of a couple of machines that have had decals, been numbered, and then had the decals stripped off to render them incognito, due to fear of competitors building the same equipment. (notice how some photos of members are cropped to avoid showing the empty number space :))

To be honest, I have this fear you mention, but I don't want to hide the fact that I have it.

I probably will put the decals just for the fun of having a SN, but my MM will be a iMM, no, not an Apple product, it will be incognito :)

My drive is not the serial number, its $$$ and I'm already losing, or more accurately, not earning money on cutting jobs not done.


Pablo

[Gerald D]

When everybody joined this site to be able to download plans, you all agreed to this User Agreement (http://www.mechmate.com/useragreement.html) which says:

Use of drawings and data:
The drawings and data can be used for free for personal non-commercial use. The MechMate logo shall be displayed on the completed product and third parties shall be referred to www.mechmate.com for further information. Files downloaded from MechMate shall not be passed to third parties, except for the purpose of procurement of components.

[PEU]

OK OK

It will be on the machine, but not on a place everyone can see it :D

Its always the same, when you are honest and sincere it passes almost no time until someone shows you some legal document... kidding!!

[Gerald D]

Pablo, "displayed" has the opposite meaning to "hidden" :D

(Mike can change the User Agreement if he wants to, so do not take my word as the official view of the MechMate "rules".)

As a MM owner, the serial number and/or logo bring nothing to a small busines except for risk of competitors copying what we did. But, one day when you want to sell your MM, you can convince the buyer that he is getting an international product with good support and then the logo and/or serial number can increase the selling price. From the perspective of the owner of the MM.com website (first me, then Mike) it makes sense to insist on the logo because it spreads the word to more people.

However, I clearly detected that I had a conflict of interest with my son - he operates MM's against competitors whose machines were getting cheaper and cheaper. You might have noticed that I stopped giving advice to locals who could become a risk to my son's business - sorry, but blood is thicker than water. I am in the lucky position that I am the only guy that didn't have to agree to the User Agreement before I could use the drawings :)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Wow, I am glad I don't live in Cape Town. I am so proud, I have a www.mechmate.com sticker at the back of my truck. :)

[Alan_c]

wow, i am glad i don't live in cape town.

:d:d:d

[riesvantwisk]

Pablo,

your competitive advantage is that you are a active member of the forum and gain so much more knowledge that you can already make better products for the same price, and properly even in less time. Making a Mechmate is comparable 'easy' to making money with it, making clients happy and have CNC knowledge to beable to do job fast, correct (no material loss) and accurate as per client request.

[PEU]

Pablo,

your competitive advantage is that you are a active member of the forum and gain so much more knowledge that you can already make better products for the same price, and properly even in less time. Making a Mechmate is comparable 'easy' to making money with it, making clients happy and have CNC knowledge to beable to do job fast, correct (no material loss) and accurate as per client request.

Maybe you are right, I have to think about what you said.

However, I clearly detected that I had a conflict of interest with my son - he operates MM's against competitors whose machines were getting cheaper and cheaper. You might have noticed that I stopped giving advice to locals who could become a risk to my son's business - sorry, but blood is thicker than water. I am in the lucky position that I am the only guy that didn't have to agree to the User Agreement before I could use the drawings

Or maybe I'm right not wanting to give info to possible competitors :D
I know from previous endeavors that the first one/two years you are at risk of being surpassed by competitors or other startups, after that your customer base takes that risk/fear away because lower prices of startups are no longer a concern because customers know the quality of the service/work you provide and choose safety instead of some cash savings.

[Gerald D]

If you drive a smart car and run your business from smart premises with smart equipment, then you look like you are successful at making money and then your competitors want to copy you. It is a simple as that.

[hennie]

Gerald They even use your company name as hit words for their websites with your product being displayed .( some int. decorators and competitors ).It is so true once you have something different than anybody else it is not long then there are some oak copying you.I cut my website and a ref on anything that I do even if it is for a competitor so the client can see who is the actual supplier.

[qroger]

Among the list of qualities Warren Buffet, (successful U.S. Investor) looks for in potential acquisitions is companies with "moats". A brand, a technology or business position, something that would be hard to duplicate that gives them an advantage. For now, it seems this class of cnc machine, and the niche customers that can be persued by the owner operator are part of the MM moat, the other being the effort needed to acquire said MM. I am not sure that at this point, the name itself will bring much business. If however you can turn out work equivalent to that from a $100,000 machine with a machine that cost you $10,000, you have something. Now if you can figure out how to work without sleep during the night, and sell the product during the day, even better. Now if Gerald or Metalhead would hand out plans for the Worlds Coolest Gadget when the serial number went out, that would be something to protect with tooth and claw.

[sailfl]

I personally like the idea that a person can decided to build the machine and when they show proof that the machine is actually cutting they get a serial number. It is easy to say you are going to build but the proof that you are building and have built is the photo or video that shows that it actual cut some thing and you have a logo.