Eastern spindles at lower price?

[Art]

I am seeing the Chinese spindles mentioned more often though not for $480 USD. Anyone have any experience with them and know a US dealer?.

[Gerald D]

The heart of a spindle is the quality of the bearings and the quality of machining for housing the bearing. You get what you pay for.

If I had to replace that Fimec's bearings with exact brand name replacements, it would cost me probably 70% of what I paid for the spindle in the beginning.

[smreish]

That pricing sounds about right. The last time I had a 2.2kw spindle rebuilt it was 850usd.

[javeria]

I am seeing the Chinese spindles mentioned more often though not for $480 USD. Anyone have any experience with them and know a US dealer?.

Hi Art,

chk these posts

1. http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,3900.0.html
2. http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,6454.0.html
3. In action http://artsound.no/cutting/

the website is http://www.saka-cnc.com/page/12345/index.php
they can ship direct i suppose, but ya might want to call em first

this is where I had got the low quotes, may be at half the cost what Sean spent to rebuild his spindle, its worth the try, moreover I have come across many chinese machines operating these chinese spindles in my city and I dont find anyone complaining.

the most common cnc wood routers I find in my city are of the woodpecker and excitec chinese brands.

Gerald sorry that I am taking this thread off track, maybe the chinese spindle discussion requires a thread for itself or maybe its not worth discussing them but at such low prices I would be tempted.

RGDS
IRfan

[Robert M]

Art, Seen a few vendors in USA selling those, can’t remember them all, but here’s one (http://www.homeshopcnc.com/page7.html)
Never been attracted much by theses, since I’m not so keen mixing the risk of unknown quality & water…. With quality wood routing !?:eek::confused:
It would be interesting to know what others MM’ers think about these spindles ??
Amiclement, Robert ;)

[javeria]

Art,

one of the trusted sellers in US http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCSpindle.html

RGDS
irfan

[Art]

I have been wary of the Chinede machines because they seemed too cheap and support. I got called yesterday from a company close to me wanting help on teir new machine. It is from http://www.vortechcnc.com/ . A 5' by 10' with vacum table, 6 HP water colled spindle and tool changer running Mach3. Price was $25K in the door. Construction, finish and apparent quality appears to be good to excelent. Be interesting to see how it turns out.

[javeria]

I am in talks with Chinese vendor for the Spindle.

here is the datasheet for the Inverter.

[liaoh75]

I recently (as in early this week) visited a CNC manufacture and learned a lot of things. I read about "Eastern Spindles" and here is the scoop. The company is called Chaostec. Their website is http://www.chaostec.com/index_en.htm and they have been in business for more than 10 years and have sold over a 1000 CNC routing machines all over Taiwan and several to Australia with the 3000W spindle (water cooled). The owner of the company was very polite but his English Speaking ability was very poor. Luckily, I am somewhat bi-lingual and can communicate fairly efficiently in Chinese. I asked him about the spindle and particularly about its reliability. Here is what he said. He said that in over 1000 machines he has sold, there has not been a single complaint about it. The price is 30,000NT which boils down to about $960 US. He includes the inverter (Also of the Chinese variety). The strange thing is, I asked him if I can just buy the spindle motor and he said, "Sure, but the price is still30,000NT" - go figure???

Enough about the price - now about my observations of the mystical Eastern spindle in action. I observed on his 4' X 8' setup. I will be buying one in about a month pending approval from the Mrs. which I think will be fine.

1. It is EXTREMELY I repeat EXTREMELY QUIET compared to the Porter Cable 3.25 HP router on my machine now. I was about 6 feet away when he powered the thing up and I didn't even know it was already on. No exaggeration by any stretch of the imagination. His setup was not in an ultra quiet location but I think you get the point.
2. The cooling system is very simple consisting of a basic sump pump in a container of water that circulates ambient temperature water through the spindle. He can provide me with a little bit more of a professional cooling setup in the form of a box the size of a 1000 watt portable generator or a mid size camping cooler with a radiator/fan setup with a reservoir built in. But, he said that it is really not necessary.
3. I don't know if the inverter that is included supports external speed control input.

A few other interesting observations:

1. The commercial machine they produce does not have a line reactor or thermister??

If there are any additional questions, I will be happy to answer any and thank you to all that have responded to my earlier questions about how to control spindle speed through Mach3 and PMDX.

Irfan, I hope this answers your questions. I am not affiliated with this company in any way.

Man I love this Mechmate community.

[Gerald D]

David, that is some very useful info, thanks!

The quietness is due to:
- no brushes
- no fan
- not busy cutting anything....when it is cutting there is still the same noise from the cutter.

The water cooling is absolutely no problem. Some people may even trickle tap water through it and let it run to waste. A fish tank, or ornamental fountain (water feature) pump, out of a bucket will also do the trick.

My biggest issue stays with the bearings. Would they issue instructions on how to change the bearings, and would they sell bearing kits? I would base a buying decision purely on the bearings and my ability to swop them out when they get worn. (It is a given fact that the bearings will wear out at some point.)

[Gerald D]

3. I don't know if the inverter that is included supports external speed control input.

If he supplies the Fuling DZB100H inverter (Irfan gave the link above), then it does accept 0-10V for a speed input signal. That inverter also accepts a RS-485 (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Serial_Programming:RS-485_Technical_Manual) Serial interface.

[kaartman]

Good morning
I agree with you David, this is a great community to be part off,
What is the feeling about the small size collect from the Eastern Spindles, upgrade to bigger size collect, is it possible, how does the thinner toolshank size compare with larger ones?

enjoy the day

[javeria]

David, I got a quote of 770 USD for a set of the above fulling inverter and a 2.2KW spindle water cooled.

only that since the inverter has the ability to put in thermal protection so that any failure of water pump can be detected.

G' what is the filter? do you have a picture of it - we might try to find substitutes?

My only concern is the DHL price to ship it to india - 280 USD. I am trying for other methods right now.

David is there any possibility that you supplier can ship to India direct? can you enquire on the costs involved?

Also try to get the inverter datasheet from him.

RGDS
IRfan

[javeria]

Koning, teh ER 16 is usually enough for wood routing. I am using 3mm dia shank 3 mm flute dia 2 flute carbide bit to bite thru 8 mm ply and it flows like boat in water.

[Gerald D]

You can push a temperature sensor down the water channel to detect hot water, or you can put a flow sensor in the water circuit to detect the water coming to a stop. I believe the people from the colder climates have such devices in their HVAC systems? (Even the fish tank guys may have these things?)

Who mentioned a "filter"? Where? (can't find it in this thread?)

[javeria]

I am sorry - the line reactor - thingy that prevent noise entering other electronic systems on the router

[Gerald D]

Here is some sales talk:

Features and Benefits (http://www.galco.com/techdoc/mte/rl/rl_fea.pdf)
Selection Guide (http://www.galco.com/techdoc/mte/rl/rl_sg.pdf)
Specifications (http://www.galco.com/techdoc/mte/rl/rl_spec.pdf)
Users Manual (http://www.galco.com/techdoc/mte/rl/rl_um.pdf)

I use one between the VFD and spindle to keep the spindle cooler - ie. as a load reactor and not as a line reactor. (Don't ask me if it makes a difference - it was recommended by the Italian spindle sellers).

I use ferrite rings on the line and load wires entering and leaving the VFD - recommended by the VFD supplier.

[javeria]

G' if possible let us have some pics and the schematic to wire these to the spindles. (with a disclaimer though :D)

If we can add value to the eastern spindles it makes a lot of economic sense.

Loving it here!

RGDS
IRfan

[Gerald D]

The schematic is too simple! (it has 3 coils, a coil is put in series in the line, one per phase.) Will take longer to make the schematic that to wire it!

The links above are full of pics.

http://www.mtecorp.com/images/a.gif

[javeria]

I Just spoke to one of the electrical / electronics brain at our office. He told me that it would be good to have a 1:1 isolation transformer with double insulation (was that the right word?) and two different grounds. This isolation transformer could be use to power the electronics with a dedicated ground to the electronics. This way there would be no interferences for the electronics. (controls)

[liaoh75]

Gerald, I will ask about bearing kits for their spindles.

I will be going back to the same place this coming Saturday to evaluate in detail, their Ucancam V8 CAM software package that they are selling for the unbelieveable price of 5800NT dollars (About $185) that appears to be on par with the capabilities of the Vectric products.

Koning, I will check on the collet size of the 3000W spindle and get back to you after this coming Saturday. Their 2200W spindle uses ER16 but I didn't bother to look at the 3000W version.

Irfan, I send and receive things on a regular basis from back home in the states and that shipping cost sounds like highway robbery to me. Did they tell you what the shipping weight is? I don't know about DHL or FedEx but the U.S. postal service will do flat rate international for anything up to 20 Lbs. Over size flat rate is about $50 U.S. I don't think the motor itself weighs 20 lbs. You can have them split the package and ship via USPS instead of DHL to save on shipping. If you would like me to have my source send one to you, I would highly doubt it would amount to $280 for shipping. Never the less, I will find out what the shipping weight of the spindle setup is what it would cost to ship to India if you can give me a postal code and I'll get back to you with that info.

[javeria]

David, the shipping cost is from China, and stuff from USA is ok on the flat rate box, but its expensive from China - all carriers UPS, DHL, TNT all charge more. The shipping weight quoted to me is 15Kg. includes inverter, spindle, waterpump and tubes.

RGDS
IRfan

[Gerald D]

David, I got a quote of 770 USD for a set of the above fulling inverter and a 2.2KW spindle water cooled.

only that since the inverter has the ability to put in thermal protection so that any failure of water pump can be detected.

. . . . .

Irfan, are you still thinking of this Chaostec option?

[javeria]

yes G' I am just waiting for the dollar to come down, Its presently 50INR for 1USD. and in the mean time looking for ways to quieten the router I have.

RGDS
IRfan

[jbmclain]

Well, after about six emails, one $900.00 wire transfer and seven weeks.:confused: Shipping was included in the $900.
My New Chinese 3K water cooled spindle, finally arrived yesterday via US mail.
It came with everything that you see. I didn't think to ask what collet size I could get with it, but came with a ER16 collet.:( Other than that I am pleased on price and quality.
Now I have to make a spindle bracket to hold this beast.

[jbmclain]

Oops. I was wrong about the collet size. I found the paper work(LOL) on the spindle and it is a ER 20 collet.
My wonderful father in law is going to cut some 3/4 inch brackets for me and maybe a few more.
Ill post the dxf. file and the paper work later.

[jehayes]

Joe: How did the spindle work-out for you? I am at the spindle/router decision stage. Thanks

[jbmclain]

Very embarrassed to say that I finally got it mounted in place.:o
I still have to run the plumbing first before I get it going though, but Ill keep you posted when things get moving further along.

Joe

[liaoh75]

Hi Joe, I am a little surprised with the ER16 collet. I bought one from china and it looks similar to yours, but mine has a ER20 collet. I paid about $500 without the inverter. Mine is also 3KW. I think there is a lot of copying going on because now I know of three seperate companies making a product that is almost identical. I bought mine on Ebay and was in communication with the seller for more than a month before I took the plunge. Hope everything works out for you.

David

[jbmclain]

I spoke too soon, It did come with a ER 20 collet.
Now I wish that I would have waited a little longer, I paid $400.00 more than you.:(
You got a great deal!
Do You have yours running?

Joe

[liaoh75]

Hi Joe,

Yes, mine is up and running and it works like a champ. I would test your spindle with compressed air and soapy water for leaks along the seams as my had a leak but the seller took care of me by sending me a new back end and also some more o-rings (Strange, but they don't use gaskets like most equipment I've seen running a liquid coolant. After that little two week snag, I have no complaints.

I had heard inconsistant things about the HY inverter so I opted not to buy it as a set, instead I was practically given a 5 HP inverter made by Rich Electronics and it works great.

Best of luck with your new spindle.

David