First Cuts And Has Stickers! #126 - Genesee, WI

[hflwaterski]

Hi Everyone,

I've been watching this site for well over a year now and finally got active by asking questions and downloading documents last fall. I've been waiting for the right time to jump in and I guess that would be now. I have finally ordered and received the laser cut parts from Alabama/jbmclain. I have finished welding the Y-Car and was anxious to put some blue on some parts. I got carried away and painted the spider plate before drilling and welding the nuts for the rollers.

As you can see from the photos I have also ordered the enclosure and the Gecko 203Vs. I'm looking forward to day when this gets completed. This will be one of the slower builds. I have a large to-do list that may take priority over the MechMate.

I can't say enough about the enthusiasm for the MechMate and the generosity of Gerald and others on this site. It is a truly unique and brilliant cast of characters that have contributed to this site. I only hope that I can contribute even a small percentage compared to everyone else here.

Herb

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[sailfl]

Herb,

Welcome! Looks like you are of to a great start. Look forward to reading your post.

[Robert M]

Wishing you fun & success with you’re built !
Can’t wait to see more…
Later, Robert
;)

[hflwaterski]

Control panel question. I'm at the point where I'm putting the control panel together however I'm a bit concerned about the amount of space in my panel. I didn't realize just how big the power supply was going to be and now it is really cramping things up in there. The DIN rail and the PMDX are not mounted, they are just sitting there.

Will I be able to get away with this panel or do you think that I will need to upgrade to a larger one?

[domino11]

Herb,
If your din rail stuff will fit in the cabinet, you look like you should be ok. Can you mount the geckos over part of your power supply board? That might give you some more room for the din rail stuff if the gecko plate moved up a bit. Might have to sit a little higher to clear the power supply board? If you have the depth in the case to support this? As a last straw, you could have a pony cabinet for the power supply alone if you really are out of room.

[Doug_Ford]

Herb,

I wouldn't mount my DIN rail too low in the cabinet. I think it might cause you problems when you are trying to insert wires into the bottom terminals. Or maybe you could trim 1/2" or 1" off the bottom of the aluminum plate supporting your Geckos.

[hflwaterski]

Doug - Here is an elevation of the panel.

[domino11]

Herb,
It looks to me like if you raised the height of the standoffs for the gecko plate, you could mount your plate right over the power supply's heatsinks and capacitors some. This would leave you more room for the din rail stuff.

[sailfl]

Herb,

I am not an expert but in my opinion, you are good so far. You don't show your fan which is usually located below the Geckos to keep them cool. You want to add a fan. I would not move Geckos to over the power supply.

I would add an addition DIN row in the space below the PMDX and to the right of the power supply. You can run your power distribution through that along with some other things.

You need some room on your bottom DIN for proximity relays. They are thin but you need them.

Yes, it is always nice to have more room but I think you can make your box work.

After looking at you layout again, you could consider turning your power supply 90 degrees. Use your CAD program to see if you gain any thing by turning your power supply.

[Gerald D]

The major chassis plate of that power seems to serve the sole purpose of holding it all together while it is shipped to you - it is not a heatsink. I would try and tip the transformer up 90 degrees (provided that the box lid will close over the diameter) and hold it up with a single L-bracket. Then dump the chassis plate and screw the 3 heatsinks direct to the panel you have there now.

This archived thread might give you some ideas:
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55

Whatever you do, do not sandwich the transformer between 2 brackets and then put a bolt through the center of transformer .You will burn something like this - that bolt/brackets acts as a shorted out winding.

[hflwaterski]

Whatever you do, do not sandwich the transformer between 2 brackets and then put a bolt through the center of transformer .You will burn something like this - that bolt/brackets acts as a shorted out winding.

Gerald,

There are no other brackets or areas for bolts or screws on the transformer. How do you recommend that I keep the transformer in place without using the supplied round metal plate, insulating gaskets and bolt?

Thanks,
Herb

[Gerald D]

This should explain it:

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[J.R. Hatcher]

Gerald you do a great job of explaining things. Very seldom do you leave me scratching my head wondering. Thanks for your time.

[hflwaterski]

Gerald - I agree with J.R. I appreciate you taking the time to make it unmistakenly clear.

[domino11]

If you wanted to use both brackets, you would have to use a nylon bolt and nuts to ensure no shorted turns as Gerald points out. The nylon bolt wont make an electrical connection.

[hflwaterski]

That worked out well. I was able to take the u-shaped metal appliance that the power supply came with and cut it into two pieces. I then mounted them to the back plate on the short side. That freed up quite a bit of room. It just barely fits with the cover but it does fit. I'm now going to be turning my attention to the wiring. Thanks for the advice.
- Herb

[Gerald D]

Glad to hear that it worked. Hope you meticulously cleaned all metal filings away from the electrics . . . . (you might have been able to remove the "u-shaped metal appliance" completely before cutting?)

[hflwaterski]

Gerald,

Yes. I completely disassembled the power supply prior to cutting. I drilled all of the holes in the back panel and the u-shaped appliance and the metal was cleaned before reassembly.

- Herb

[hflwaterski]

Back on the project after a long break. I'll win the longest build hands down. Gantry tubes cut and clamping strips are cut and drilled. I hope to have the tubes drilled and the the entire gantry welded by this weekend. Kitchen table project is progressing nicely. I need to order relays and a bit of wire yet and then get the computer prepped and loaded with software. I'll post pictures soon to show my progress thus far.

[domino11]

Welcome Back Herb!

[hflwaterski]

Here is a little progress this past weekend. The gantry welding is underway and I only have a little bit to finish up. I removed all of the control components from the panel and cut a hole out for the fan. I installed the fan and then re-installed all of the components. It's hard to see in the last photo but there is about 1/2-3/4" gap between the top of the fan and the Gecko aluminum panel. I don't have the cable yet but that will be coming soon, so I'll be able to finish the kitchen table project. I have all of the brackets welded for the cable carrier as well. I now have the z-slide plate in hand and will be assembling the skate again to grind. Gear racks and router cable should be arriving this week. Here are some photos:

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[hflwaterski]

Gantry welding completed and amazingly very square with no prop twist at all. Very happy with the outcome. Cross members have been cut to length but I have no good way to cut the 60 degree angles efficiently. I plan to cut the legs over the weekend and start some of the drilling on the various plates and cross members.

Gear racks have arrived and the cable for the router. I'm finally getting close to wrapping up on ordering parts.

[Alan_c]

Good going Herb. Probably the easiest way to cut the ends of the cross members (if you dont have a workshop full of metalworking equipment like horizontal bandsaws etc) is with an angle grinder and a thin (1mm) cutting disk. Just mark out where you want to cut and go for it, it actually goes quite quickly. (dont forget the PPE!)

[WTI]

You might just want to rent a cold saw or horizontal bandsaw for an hour to make all those cuts.

[hflwaterski]

Not sure which way I'll go but maybe I'll give the angle grinder a try on one and see how long it takes. I completed the legs today. I'm going to bolt the sides together so I have a plate a the bottom and the top. I have two 3/8" holes drilled into the top plate of the legs.

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[hflwaterski]

Just thought I would throw out a question to hear opinions. After seeing how much better the wiring would go with the larger panels, do you think that I should reconsider the size of my electrical panel and go with a larger one? My panel is obviously bought and paid for but I'm concerned that when I get deep into the wiring, I may cause myself quite a bit of hassle. My current panel is 16"x20"x8" which is roughly half the size of Miguel's (TechGladiator). You can see some of the components already mounted on the back plate in my previous posts above. Thanks!

[KenC]

My panel is about your size. While my motor drivers are a lot bigger than the gecko drivers, I still have enough real estate to house an extra driver...
Its really up to how much complication you want to get yourself into. :D

[TechGladiator]

Herb:

Looking good. Check PM.

[MetalHead]

I have a heatsink that you could mount on the side of the box to move the Geckos off to the side. But If your layout is working so far, I would go with it. I have seen a 16x20 cabinet and everything fit. You just have to plan. MechMate #42 Control Box

[hflwaterski]

A little progress this weekend and last night. I have the holes are marked out and located. I began drilling last night as well. I'll post a pic later when I'm finished. I'm going to have to go out and get a better coutersink bit for sure though. The hardened plate trashed the one I was using. Over the weekend, I completed the v-grind on the edges. It wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Using the 36 grit over the grinding wheel and then following it up with the 50 grit is a great way to go. I thank the goood folks on the forum for that great tip as well as printing out the hole pattern on the plate.

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[domino11]

So how did you handle the skate overrun? Did you add extra metal to the ends?

[hflwaterski]

I bought a plate that was 36" long and cut it down when the grinding was complete. I had to pay a little more to have less of a hassle with a longer piece. I wasn't about to put a short piece through my 5hp unisaw with a sanding disk attached.

[hflwaterski]

Some progress over the weekend. I was able to get the spider plate all welded up and I drilled for the gas spring. I had a couple holes to rework on the slide tube but I'm getting very close to finishing up the entire z-slide assembly. The mild whether has really helped out my efforts here in the midwest.

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[hflwaterski]

I have 1 side nearly done. I have the diagonal braces to weld in but going well overall. I had to persuade the main horizontal pipe to become straight again. I guess that's the advantage of only doing a little bit at a time. I know better now to only run small beads at a time on side 2 to decrease heat and distortion. Overall I'm fairly happy with the welds. That was my first time welding pipe after using the tube notcher. I bought it a long time ago in anticipation of this part of the Mechmate and a couple other projects.

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[TechGladiator]

Herb

That is some nice welding!!..And this is your "FIRST TIME"? impressive..

Is that a Rigid metal saw I see on the table? If so, how do you like it?

[hflwaterski]

Thanks Miguel. I have welded square tubing and lots of steel bar, flat and channel but no round tube that I can remember. The tube notcher does make it go much better I'm sure. Regarding the Rigid, I would say that it is a bit underpowered but it's also the only one I've ever owned or used so I don't have a good frame of reference. I don't know if they all bog down like this one does but it seems to really strain when I put anything substantial through it. It is slightly out of square with the blade but not enough to worry about. Other than that, I guess it's been fine for me. It managed to cut everything I've needed so far.

[MetalHead]

I have a Dewalt Chop saw that works well. But if really straight cutting is the order of the day, they make better cutting saws. You want one that uses a blade and not an abasive wheel.

Abrasive Example:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=100634624&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=100634624&ci_kw=%7bkeyword%7d&kwd=%7bkeyword%7d&cm_mmc=shopping%2d%5f%2dgoogleads%2d%5f%2dpla%2d%5 f%2d100634624&ci_gpa=pla

Blade Examples:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/14-Dry-Cut-Metal-Saw/G0692

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Slow-Speed-Cold-Cut-Saw/G0665

[TechGladiator]

Thanks Mike. I was looking at the DeWalt one at HD and it looked like for the amount of steel cutting that I plan on doing is going to be OK.. The reason why I asked Herb about the Rigid is because my local HD carries both DeWalt and Rigid. With Rigid being about $40 cheaper.

[revved_up]

Hard to go wrong with the Ridgid tools most all the new tools have unbeatable warrantys. I have lots of Ridgid tools and have never been let down by them. Except my circular saw, my son in law claims that the cord was faulty because it wouldnt get out of the way of the cut. :mad:

[TechGladiator]

@Craig: HAHA! Nice, I am sure you let your son in law borrow your tools all the time after that incident.:).

I just purchased the Ridgid 14" today and although I only cut a few pieces of 3x3 1/8" steel tubing it looks like it works great. I will be cutting some angles tomorrow so we will see how that goes.

I do have a Ridgid drill press and works great..

[Travish]

If I was to do it all over again I would go with the Grizzly bladed style over the abrasive cut off saw anyday.

[TechGladiator]

@Travis; I have seen both machines cut and I could agree with you, I think for me however because I dot plan on cutting that much steel that paying 2.5 times the price for an blade vs abrasive was not justified. IF I needed to cut a lot of steel or build another MM I would certainly do it. This next project I am working on only requires about a dozen cuts to 3x3" (.125") square tubing.

[hflwaterski]

Here are a few shots from the shop today. I took a break from welding and machining while I recovered from being sick for a spell. One side is done minus the holes for the cross members and top rails. I hope to start on the other side shortly. I've been rearranging the shop this weekend so that I can start to assemble it pretty much in place.

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[TechGladiator]

Coming along nice Herb.. Good Job.. You will be making dust before you know it.

[MetalHead]

I want to know how you guys keep your shops so neat and purdy :D !!!

[TechGladiator]

@Mike, thats because they don't have a MM yet making dust :)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Maybe Hennie with (on) his broom visits every night.

[jessyjames]

When my shop is not dirty thats when I know Im not making much money :(

[Metalsmith]

does every one making steel machines do solid welds....I have been a structural welder for 45 years and never do we weld solid...to much waste. Not even bulldozers are welded solid... ; ) Nothing could convince me it will hold better. Also for those that want nice cuts, you can buy 40, 60 and 100 tooth cold cut blades for chop saws....I will try to post a link...

[MetalHead]

Well I think we weld solid becuase we figure that if we get half of it to hold we did good ..... :D !!!

[Metalsmith]

:D:D.... I make a lot of money because I charge $50 an hr and it hardly ever takes me more that an hour to weld up anything....Say on a leg ...tack each corner and 1 " down each side then weld around each corner in 1/2 " welds.....never top or bottom or it will pull on the top frame piece....all ways let it normalize at air temp...use jigs when possible and use a big rosebud tip to normalize joints that have pulled and they will usually go back to position.

[KenC]

Great to know we have a professional welder among us.


........ use a big rosebud tip to normalize joints that have pulled and they will usually go back to position.


Would you mind elaborate on the procedure. If all possible a tutorial is most appriciated. I'm about to make a 28ft square hollow section beam from a 20ft & 8 ft 2"x3" square hollow section. Really don't wiant to end up with a crocket & twisted beam.

[Metalsmith]

Great to know we have a professional welder among us.

Would you mind elaborate on the procedure. If all possible a tutorial is most appriciated. I'm about to make a 28ft square hollow section beam from a 20ft & 8 ft 2"x3" square hollow section. Really don't wiant to end up with a crocket & twisted beam.
You need a table and supports for the section that overhang the ends....clamp a section of 2-2.5 " angle, at least 4 ft to the table and center it ....use a string and push or pul it till it is perfectly straight. Prep you tube by grinding your ends to be joined, to a 45 degree bevel, leaving an edge where they touch, the thickness of the wire or rod you are using to weld with...leave a gap of the same thinkness...this will insure pentatration.... i like to do big spot welds one over lapping the other !
Clamp to the table against the angle and place another piece of angle on the other side ....use at least 4 clamps ...one on each side of the break and one on each end. if you can, clamp the second angle to the table too !
Make sure the weld method can do the job..... test with scrap plate ! Tack the tube on all 4 corners, turn the tube to get to bottom....grind tacks if they are not flush..... if your machine is having trouble doing the weld in one pass , heat tube, with torch and make multiple pases. , but do one side at a time...make a root pass and clean all welds, then make the next series, till the groove is filled slightly above surface , then grind for finish.
If you take your time , you can have a tube, that when painted no one can tell were it is joined! The string is your best friend for straightness.....you can use a torch and heat the high sides and rapid cool to straighten ....only practice will make you good at it ....after 45 years , I almost got it down ... ; ))))

[KenC]

Metalsmith,
Thanks for the run through. Clears some doubts as I read.


i like to do big spot welds one over lapping the other !


Like is in particular, this method never sprung in my mind ever. Will definately have a go.

Another question.
I do worry when weld solid on one side at a time, the heat will pull the tubes. Do you mean that the tack will hold them from pulling? or I'm am just over worrying?

[Metalsmith]

The spot welds need to be hot enough to melt into both parts .... if the heta is not high enough .... holding the trigger (mig) will only make it worse..... What method (Type of machine) do you use /

[KenC]

Lately, I bought an economical Chinese MIG, The manufacturer's manual & specs are useless, so I measured the max. Voltage range to be about 14~32V. Max current is about 200~220Amp lowest about 80~100Amp.
So far, I had success welding upto 1/4" (6mm) which is thickest I need to weld to ate. using 003" (0.8mm) wire with the voltage & wire speed dial set about the middle of the full range. I am using pure CO2 gas for now.

Before the MIG, I use my portable 160A inverter stick welder.

[Metalsmith]

Use the CO2, cheapest and gives a hotter burn.... the spot should lay down flat if you have the right heat & feed....should sound like frying bacon(Meat)...we have cowboyed the thread long enough, send me questions in PM.... ; )) Thanks

[Metalsmith]

Any updates ..... ?

[hflwaterski]

Both sides are welded up and the feet are installed. The cross members should be done soon and then I can begin to bolt them on to the sides. I'll take some photos when the beams have all been drilled and the cross members are bolted on. I've been dreading grinding the rails but that's next for me after the cross members.

[hflwaterski]

A little progress. I am 1 cross member short so it'll have to wait a bit more. I also had to stop because I bent the only bit I had in that size. How many bits did you all go through on your projects? This will be the 3rd in that size. Anyway, three more cross members to drill and attach and then that'll wrap up the majority of the table. Only minor fabrication left on the table and then onto the rail grinding.

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[Guillermo]

Hi Herb.

Try drilling at slower RPM . About 60 rpm.

[JasonC]

And lube the bit while drilling to keep the heat down.

[Red_boards]

I only used one set of drill bits in my build. None bent or snapped. Lots of cutting oil. Frequent sharpening (I use a Drill Doctor - a worth while investment that's paid for itself and given me a new "skill"). A drill press is key so the pressure is directly down. All my drilling was at 100rpm. Probably slow for some people, but I did get nice curls coming off the bit.
Here's a post that helped me http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal/drilling.html

[WTI]

Drill Doctor rules, and I never see anyone else talk about it.

Buy the few bits you are going to use a lot in Cobalt.

They last 6-8 times longer than normal, and when you resharpen them, the cobalt is not ground away.

[MetalHead]

I have one!!! 750X rules :D !!! Use it all the time.

Made by Darex - Drill Doctor is there domestic brand. Real toyz here:

http://www.darex.com/

[KenC]

Nowadays, hand grinding drill bit is a lost skill.

[Travish]

I have the darex XT3000, but my preferred method is by hand and a drill gage. I like to simpleness looking at the drill doctors.

[hflwaterski]

Well I'm back at it and working on the record for longest build. I think I have it squarely in hand if I ever get there. I have a quick double check I want to throw past everyone. I'm getting back to the kitchen table project. I plan on running a 110V router initially and eventually a spindle with a VFD. I would also like to run a 110V dust collector and have it turn on automatically. I found the following solid state relay (CRYDOM CKRD2430) and just wanted to run it by everyone before I ordered two of them. One for the router and one for the dust collector.

http://www.crydom.com/en/products/catalog/c_kr24.pdf

Another follow-up question. If I eventually go to a VFD with a spindle, should I consider wiring up the panel with 220 volts or leave it at 110 volts as I have it now?

[Tom Ayres]

I'd run 220 in anyway, gives you the spindle option and its just one more wire in and a few minor differences in contactor, etc. I asked the very same question about setting up the dust collector to turn on automatically, it was suggested by several not to and just do it manually, but to each his own.

[smreish]

I personally prefer to turn on the dust collection manually.
I have found, that I always had at least a few cutting operations that dust collection hurt the process, than helped it.

Good luck with your choices.

[hflwaterski]

Updating you quickly during my work lunch. The heat sink is mounted with all the tapped holes ready for mounting the Geckos (will put in temporarily and wait until the end for the heat sink compound), the BOB stand-offs are in, and expecting the SSRs today or tomorrow. I hate parting with the money but love having gifts at my door when I get home from work. Tonight's short list, mounting the control panel vent, mounting the muffin fan, prepping and cutting wire to connect the Geckos to the BOB.

I'm doing some last minute calculations and just want to run it by the electronic experts...which I am definitely not.

Using the following:
PS5N30R5R12
Gecko G203Vs
PK296A2A-SG2.7 Unipolar (half coil) equating to 3A/Phase

47 x 3 / (7 - 3) = 35.25

I need (4) 35K resistors. Do I have that correct?

By the way, I upgraded to a larger panel. One of the other forum members graciously traded me for my smaller panel so I had to do some rework. Please disregard the earlier photos of the control panel.

[hflwaterski]

They only had 33K resistors at Radio Shack. Will I have any problems using those as opposed to the 35K resistors?

[domino11]

Those will be fine!

[hflwaterski]

Well, it's a major milestone for me. I was able to get everything talking to each other. Very exciting since I'm not an electronics wizard like some of you out there in MechMate Land. I'm looking forward to finishing up the rest of the panel but it was nice to take time out to get things moving for the first time.

http://youtu.be/b3qS8uHoFpA

[Tom Ayres]

Excellent, that's a big step. Keep on a roll.:)

[hflwaterski]

The table is finally on its feet. I was able to squeeze a little work in on the table and control panel.

[hflwaterski]

Started the dreaded rail grinding. Won't get much time with it during the week but at least it's started.

[hflwaterski]

Just wanted to update everyone on my status and pass along my solution to the cross angle brace. Don't look too closely at my Frankenstein welds because it was definitely a challenge for me to figure out the angles. I used the holes at the bottom of the channel that will be used for drilling out the support board. I simply made a bracket that spanned two holes on the channel and then welded the cross angle brace to the single cross bearer on the bottom. I still have the other side to do but I wanted to make sure it was going to work out.

All of the grinding is finished but I haven't drilled the holes out for either the table or the gantry. I will tackle that after I finish the other cross angle brace.

[hflwaterski]

I figured it's time for an update. I was able to get quite a bit done over the past couple weeks. I'm happy to say that there are only very minor items left on the build checklist excluding wiring. I made a few minor mistakes along the way but nothing that should impair the operation of the machine.

I ended up with a broken tap (see photo) in one of the main beam holes but other than that, it's ready for wiring and paint. So question to the group. Would you stop now and paint the whole thing first before wiring or would you finish mocking it up in case there are additional brackets to add, etc? I was thinking I would do a test run with it before paint due to the lack of warm weather here. I probably won't see temps appropriate for paint for another 3-6 weeks anyway. Suggestions?

[Tom Ayres]

Some don't even paint it for awhile, personally, cold weather or not I'd paint it first. Adding things to it later may require touch up, that's about all. If you don't paint it now you may never paint it.

[darren salyer]

Truer words were never spoken, Tom.
Had I not painted mine before completion, I doubt it would be now.

[KenC]

Paint it 1st. worry about touch up latter.
IMHO, at least prime the metal.
Its like cleaning up the machine before you go to installing the smaller bits.

[hflwaterski]

After taking the advice of others, I'm finally applying paint. I think I would never take it apart once it was together and running. I'll shoot some pics after I get a little further.

[Tom Ayres]

Should we be looking for some wild color scheme or are you going with the standard MM blue?

[lonestaral]

By 'Wld colour scheme' do you mean
Leopard spots or Tiger stripes :D

[hflwaterski]

Pretty standard: MechMate blue with black rails and trim pieces. Can't wait to get the sticker on!

[Tom Ayres]

Zebra strips of coarse

[hflwaterski]

Paint is finally on and only a couple small pieces to finish up. Final assembly can finally begin.

[jhiggins7]

Looking good Herb.

[hflwaterski]

At long last, there is very little left to paint and I have things ready to assemble.

[pblackburn]

Moving right along

[servant74]

Lookin nice. ... I would have recommended taking it to a cheap car paint shop who has a heated shop to paint during bad weather. But hey, you needed that info 9 months ago. ... Just like me, a day late and a dollar short! ... Your build is looking good!

[hflwaterski]

The last few parts have been ordered. I ordered the VFD, proximity sensors, and relays for the sensors. I will need to run power above the MM with a power drop from the ceiling and figure out a plan for dust collection. For now, I will build a dust boot and run my portable dust collector until I have something bigger and better in place. I'm getting some assistance from a relative with the mounting bracket for the spindle, the final machining on the pinions, and the flattening of the spider car. I should have those back soon. I also need to mount the control box and the VFD on the MM. I think things should start coming together. The list continues to shorten which is a good feeling. I apologize in advance for blowing the average build time out of the water. Maybe you can throw out the longest build which would be me by a mile. :o

[pblackburn]

Herb,
I take it you didn't get the sarcasm from my earlier post above (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=72848&postcount=91) :rolleyes:

With the passage of time comes knowledge, well at least we hope so. I see a long build as someone who is building within their constraints and making sure there are no mistakes. I am glad to see you are still at it. Keep up the good work.

[hflwaterski]

A little progress this weekend. I'm going to mount the control panel and VFD on a hinged mounting board to the main beam like Surfcnc and TechGladiator. I also installed a permanent vent on the control panel this weekend as well. Two of prox sensors are installed on the gantry and a brand new sheet of 1-1/8" thick mdf is on the cross members. It's not bolted or drilled yet. Below zero (F) temperatures are keeping me from the outside shop. I moved as much to the basement as I could.

[TechGladiator]

Looking Good! Are you putting the VFD also inside a vented enclosure?:). I don't think you want to have dust going into the VFD.

[hflwaterski]

Yes, I plan to put it in an enclosure. That's a temporary arrangement. Any suggestions on a good panel to purchase for that purpose?

[TechGladiator]

How big is your VFD? I have a few boxes (pvc) that may work as I dont use them anymore. I will just ship it to you.

[hflwaterski]

That would be terrific! It is 6"W x 9"H x 7"D. I'll shoot you a private message for payment information. Thanks Miguel!

[Kornerking]

I should take a quick spin down and see your machine.

[hflwaterski]

That would be quite a spin. It looks like over 8 hours according to Google maps. I'd be happy to show you the machine when the dust starts to fly. It's getting there!

[darren salyer]

8 hrs. is just around the block for Pete.

[hflwaterski]

Small task completed. I welded up the hinges to 6" x 48" 13GA sheet metal and used flat head machine screws to keep from interfering when the tubing is attached to the main beam and the panel is hanging. The top machine screws are holding the control panel at the top. That should give plenty of strength to the control panel board for years of hanging around.

[Kornerking]

Actually it would only be half that if I combined it with one of my frequent runs to Minneapolis.
I've been to Darrens a couple of times and that is much further.

My cohort and #1 son Tony will be doing the muscle and brain work on this. Thought it might be nice if he actually got to see one first.

Of course Darren does have his new laser engraver to look at. Decisions decisions.

[Nikonauts]

A little progress this weekend. I'm going to mount the control panel and VFD on a hinged mounting board to the main beam like Surfcnc and TechGladiator. I also installed a permanent vent on the control panel this weekend as well. Two of prox sensors are installed on the gantry and a brand new sheet of 1-1/8" thick mdf is on the cross members. It's not bolted or drilled yet. Below zero (F) temperatures are keeping me from the outside shop. I moved as much to the basement as I could.

That air vent looks neat! Seems elegant. If you bought it online, could you share the link?

I had this idea about using motorcycle air filter as vent before... thought it might look cool (or maybe just stupid).

[hflwaterski]

Hi Nikonauts - Here are some links to the manufacturer and a link to the sizing chart. The links show the two parts I bought but size it according to your panel. You can buy them online from several places including FactoryMation:

http://www.saginawcontrol.com/part_info/SCE-AVK34
http://www.saginawcontrol.com/part_info/SCE-FLT34 (http://www.saginawcontrol.com/part_info/SCE-FLT34)
http://www.saginawcontrol.com/instman/028.PDF

[smreish]

http://www.factorymation.com/Products/Louver_and_Filter_Kits/SCE-FLT86.html

[hflwaterski]

A little more progress. I'm happy to have a matching Rittal control panel for my VFD. It fits perfectly and now I can use the same cabinet key. I'll paint everything up after I punch some holes in the square mounting tube at the top and finally get it attached. More small victories.

[bradm]

Have you met the clearance and ventilation requirements for that VFD? They get warm, and then they get grumpy.

[hflwaterski]

Not yet. The vents are on the way though. If I have to put a fan in, there is plenty of room. Is it typical to do more than just vents?

[bradm]

Depends on how hot and how dusty your environment will be. The VFD has internal fans, which will move air and dust; if your ambient temps don't get up into the sweaty zone, vents ought to work. If they do, I would consider a negative pressure fan and an intake filter. You should be able to determine this pretty quickly after an hour of operation or so. I don't mean to raise a large alarm, as long as you're thinking about ventilation, you'll work it out.

[hflwaterski]

Some minor paint to touch up but I finished the hinged control panel support board. It turned out pretty nice I thought. Thanks for the great idea guys.

[Nikonauts]

Herb & Sean, thanks for the links!

[hflwaterski]

Today's progress. The support board is drilled, countersunk, and bolted down with carriage bolts. All 40 holes, well...39 anyway. I couldn't get at one of them. I also mounted the control panel. I'm still waiting for the other vents. They have been backordered but at least the holes are drilled and cut.

[hflwaterski]

Time to run the wires. I added a PVC wire duct that measures 2"x2"x approx. 26" from McMaster. I tapped three 1/4"-20 holes for the wire duct into the gantry. I'll try and get wires started this weekend if possible. All of the cable glands are installed so it's time.

[Nikonauts]

Herb,

Can you please share the length of the cables for each axis, beginning from the entry point of the cable chain?

Thanks.

[hflwaterski]

See Doug Ford's post (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6418&postcount=25)

[hflwaterski]

I have the majority of the wires run into the cable chain over the weekend and tonight. I have two of the four motors fully wired and talking to Mach3. Two more to go and getting closer. Lots of wiring left though with e-stops and proximity sensors but I'm taking it a step at a time. Another challenge for me will the the VFD. I'll tackle that when I'm through with the rest of the wiring.

[hflwaterski]

It finally moves!!! It feels good to be this close!

https://vimeo.com/155925926

[Nikonauts]

Yeay! Congratulation...

[Tom Ayres]

Great! You're getting close :D

[alan254]

It is a good feeling to see it move isn't it after all that effort

[hflwaterski]

Thanks guys! It most certainly is a good feeling Alan! Especially after all that effort AND years! :)

[smreish]

...the sweet sound of steppers singing! Congrats Herb.

[Kornerking]

Way to go.
The next one should be easier.
But then if it was easy, anyone could do it.

[racedirector]

Congrats, well done. You'll have dust flying in no time!

[hflwaterski]

Update: The correct 12V relays arrived and have been wired to the proximity sensors with the exception of the z-axis. The 3 proxies appear to be working properly on the table. I'll hook up the input pin on the PMDX tomorrow. I also have some clean up to do on the wires in the panel as you can see.

[Nikonauts]

Herb,

Sorry for bothering you again with questions...

May I know
1) the brand of DIN rail connectors you're using, is it Wago? If it is Wago, what series do you choose?
2) on the lower row of rail, what's the difference between the white ones on the left, and the grey one
3) What is the cylindrical thing (upper row, right most, next to white contactor unit)
4) The black thing on the lower row, far right.

[Tom Ayres]

Looks like the (thru door) main switch with shaft and a small dc power supply to me

[hflwaterski]

Hi Nikonauts,

1) I'm using a variety of terminal blocks that were purchased and given to me over time. It's not as neat as a control panel full of the same product but I don't want to spend unnecessarily at this point.

2) You are seeing 4 slim relays for the proximity sensors. They are 12v relays to work with the 12v output on the power supply. The grey ones next to it are just ordinary terminal blocks with jumpers making the connections.

3) Tom is correct, it's a though door main panel disconnect. Link to the disconnects. (http://products.ensto.com/catalog/15225/_ENG3.html)

4) There are actually two black things if you look closely. They are both large relays for controlling things like dust collectors and vacuums rather than having to turn the switches on by walking to each piece of equipment.

[smreish]

...those relays look familiar!

[hflwaterski]

Quick update: I just got photos from my nephew with the finished mounting bracket. Some of his nicest milling work to remove weight will unfortunately be hidden once it's mounted on the z-plate. I should be able to wrap up this weekend and hopefully with no blue poofy smoke. If it smokes, then I guess it'll be a few more weeks.

[Alan_c]

Looks very cool, but why did you need to make the spacer/mounting bracket? the matrix of mounting holes on the spindle will match up perfectly with the holes in the Z plate and tube (if you followed the drawings) I just removed those screws holding the plate to the tube, drilled holes in the back of the tube to line up with the holes in the front and fastened the spindle directly to the plate from the tube side with cap screws.

[hflwaterski]

I decided to go with an interchangeable bracket. I want to be able to quickly swap out the spindle for a router if I need to. I also want to play around with a 3D print head and maybe even a laser some day. The bracket has locating pins that mate with the z-plate which will make the job of swapping it out very simple in the future.

[Alan_c]

Ah! OK that makes sense, will be cool to see it when its all done and installed.

[hflwaterski]

Temporarily set up to make sure it was all going to work before I finalize the wiring. The ground wire hanging down isn't as close to the spindle as it appears. Z-motor to wire up as well as the proximity sensor and then I can finally test it all out. Inching forward!

Spindle Test (https://vimeo.com/158737455)

[Kornerking]

Kool. It's singing.

[hflwaterski]

Finally got it wired up and working. Lots left to do though. I've only done some rough calibrating and I have to finish up the prox on the z to button up the e-stop boxes. I have to put on the spoilboard and all kinds of little things but I'm pretty happy with it though. Once logos get here, I'll slap it on and plan the party. :D:D:D

Thanks to all those that have helped me get through it!

Video to the first official cut! (https://vimeo.com/158762147)

[Kornerking]

Awesome.
Ain't it a great feeling?

[hflwaterski]

It's kind of funny that the shortest build and probably the longest build finished on the same weekend....and it certainly is a great feeling!

[Kornerking]

It will be great to swap stories.
Is this for fun for you or do you have a purpose for it?

[hflwaterski]

I used to be in the cabinet business many, many...many years ago and kept quite a few pieces of equipment. It's mainly for fun but I'll probably pick up some work, build some furniture pieces, and I'd love to experiment with sign making. Lots to learn for sure.

[darren salyer]

Well Done Herb!!

[hflwaterski]

Thanks Darren! I have ALOT of catching up to do after watching the talented guys on here for so many years!

[smreish]

Congrats. I see a RoadRunner!

[hflwaterski]

Thanks Sean! As you can tell, I only had the demo Mach3. I'm cutting a whole roadrunner now with the full version. :)

[Tom Ayres]

Its great seeing another MM come to life, Congrats!

[hflwaterski]

Thanks Tom! Once the stickers are on I can officially join the club. :)

[hflwaterski]

The stickers have arrived and it's official. :cool:

[Tom Ayres]

Ta Da!

[Alan_c]

Cool! congrats.

[hflwaterski]

Thanks Alan and Tom! Pretty good feeling but plenty to learn and do now.

[darren salyer]

Looks like you've met the requirements for a serial number.

[hflwaterski]

Well, I finally learned just enough of the CAM program to give it a go. You will see that I botched up my first attempt on the drilling operation because I was referencing the wrong surface. Luckily, only snapped an 1/8" bit rather than an expensive cutter. The g-code was setup to run off the top of the part and I referenced the temporary spoil board or the bottom of the part instead. It eventually dawned on me. In addition, I used a 5/8" piece of plywood instead of 1/2" material just to be safe. I'm sure my steps were too small and my feed speed was too slow too but hey, it ALMOST looks like I know what I'm doing. :o I'm happy enough at attempt #1.

First test run at making a dust boot. (https://vimeo.com/159605908)

[Tom Ayres]

This is when the serious stuff happens. The machine was the easy part he he:D

[hflwaterski]

I've cranked up the speed on the cam program based on the chip load formula. Does the speed look right on the video? I'll put another video out here on Thursday running an 1/8 bit, 2 flutes on the profile. I exceeded my weekly limit of space for videos so I can't put the other video up yet. For this video I'm using a 1/4" carbide bit, 2 flutes @ 18,000 rpm and a chip load of .015. According to the calc, I should be running at 540ipm. It would be great if it runs this fast on plywood all the time but would like another set of eyes on it to make sure I'm not moving too fast.

Cutting magnet pockets and the slot for the nut. (https://vimeo.com/159960122)

[pblackburn]

A lot plays into chip load that calculators do not take into account. Deflection, micrograin, humidity, machine rigidity, a perfect world, etc. Reduce your RPM and recalculate and start at 80% of the calculation for IPM. Get your speed to a comfortable margin to work within the constraints of the machine build to not have other issues. Biggest thing is listen for chatter and after the cut is done the bit should only be warm to cool and not hot.

[hflwaterski]

Thanks Pete. I'll definitely do that. Here is a video of it going full speed using the calculation. It just seems too fast for that bit. It's solid carbide, upcut, 1/8" cutting diameter, 1/4" shank, 2 flutes, 18,000 rpm, chipload 0.015 which equates to 540 ipm.

0.015 x 18000 x 2 = 540 ipm

I'll slow the rpm's down and reduce the chipload slightly and drop it down to 80% and see how it comes out.

Here is the cutting video. (https://vimeo.com/160247085)

[Alan_c]

Speed looks OK, you may still not have the correct acceleration settings though, it should not slow down like that when approaching a change in direction.

[hflwaterski]

I'll see if I can figure out how to change that in the CAM software. Thanks for catching that!

[pblackburn]

The running speed looks fine but you will burn up that bit with those slow downs. You are rubbing and not cutting then. I would also advise a ramp plunge instead of a straight plunge.

[MetalHead]

Congrats on your build!!! You get number 126 !!!

[Robert M]

....I'll see if I can figure out how to change that in the CAM software...

It's actually simpler to adjust it in Mach3 ( if that's what you're using )....
Just go under the 'config" main menu tab, scroll down to "motor tuning"...and there you'll see the acceleration box you can change values.
MAKE sure you click "save axis settings" after any changes and...make sure you change all you axis independently on that setting profile page !

Advise...in myexperiance & opinion.....Slower accel make life simple on your beast....and maybe less impressive to see vs a quick change, but, on the long run, many parts will simply survive longer....with less maintenance & cost.
IE....gear rack & pinion for starters :p

All the best, R. ;)

[hflwaterski]

I'm working on my first paid sign job. I'll post pics on it as I get things figured out.

Pete:
I did figure out how to get rid of the plunge on my cuts tonight. Thanks for the advice!

Mike:
Thanks for assigning me #126. I feel like I just got my diploma! :D

Robert:
Thanks for the tip! I'll give it a go on the motor tuning and see where I settle for acceleration.

[lonestaral]

Well done #126.
Happy dust to you.

[Kornerking]

Congratulations. Paid jobs are great.
Guess I should get my logos on as well.

[hflwaterski]

Thanks Al and Pete! Get those logos on Pete. Graduation day awaits!

[darren salyer]

Congrats to #126
from #101.

[hflwaterski]

Thanks a bunch Darren! The 100+ club? :cool:

[smreish]

Congrats....wow 126 machines

[Tom Ayres]

now 127:)

[Nikonauts]

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/66516013.jpg

[hflwaterski]

Thanks Sean, Tom and Nikonauts!!! Sean don't you own like 30 of them? :eek:

[smreish]

Herb,
Interestingly enough, I don't have any of them anymore. #5 gone, all the others where built for other friends or University as a class project. I have enough experience building them now that I don't even refer to the instructions! Now, I just sit back and comment from the cheap seats.

....but I do plan on building a new one later this year if all goes well!

Sean

[jhiggins7]

Outstanding! Congratulations.

Here's the Update Builder's Log (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SDSq8C8mQKJzp0oTrXtHcTYXp_QmFlYev9zRc1X2nZE/edit?usp=sharing)with your entry added.

Please let me know your cutting dimensions for the log.

[hflwaterski]

Sean:
I look forward to seeing a near perfect build with so much experience!

John:
The dimensions are 49"x97". Seems to be a common size after looking through the list again. Nothing special going on beyond that other than a spindle rather than a router.

[jhiggins7]

Thanks for the information. I have updated your log entry.

Yours is a very impressive story. It took you awhile, but you stuck to it and finished...including earning a serial number.:)

[hflwaterski]

Thanks John! I'm very relieved to have it running. For the longest time, it was non-functional pile of steel taking up space but now it sits proudly like a showcase thanks to everyone on the forum. I'm privileged to have so much accessibility to the experienced builder's logs and immediate, helpful tips and I appreciate you updating the Builder's Log!

[Tom Ayres]

Now Let's See Some Work!

[Andrew_standen]

Congratulations
from number 109

[hflwaterski]

Thanks Andrew!...and per Tom's request, here is my first sign project. I learned quite a bit about how I wouldn't do things as much as I learned about how I would. I also included a logo similar to what I started with. It was slightly different but you get the idea. It was the 5th anniversary which is represented by wood so the key and the sql letters were done in birch.

[Robert M]

Nicely done !!

Customer must be very happy ;)
Cheers, R.

[darren salyer]

An awesome first sign.
Well done.

[Tom Ayres]

Super nice! Great job! :D

[hflwaterski]

Thanks guys! I'm pretty happy with the outcome and so was the customer.

[hflwaterski]

I thought I would give you all a quick update on my next project. I'm building a kitchen island. I have a quick mock up done in SketchUp so you can see what I'm building. The cuts are going well. I did have a little issue with the dado precision due to a fairly warped piece of plywood. A vacuum table sure would come in handy for large sheets. A few well placed screws and lots of clamps helped quite a bit. Here are some photos of my progress so far.

[Tom Ayres]

Very nice Herb! Post more pics when you've completed it. Thanks for sharing.:)

[Robert M]

Vacuum maybe better!!!....I wouldn't tell, been doing all kinda cut, including sheet cutting (+60%) without seeing a "need" for it....in 8yrs !
Don't have a vacuum, never worked with one, so can't really tell, but, I'm not near tempted, again, by my need (experience), to go buy or make one !!....I manage very well without.
Good luck.....and nice working, like tom say, share the final work !!
.....;)

[Kornerking]

Robert, how do you keep things from moving? Clamps? Screws?

I like vacumn. Lay the sheet down, flip the switch and it is ready to cut. Granted, it did cost a few bucks.

[Robert M]

Managing mostly (80% of the time) with clamps...

Through careful parts nesting....and tab location....and clamps :

15602

Here's a few examples
Part of a Solid cherry top :

15599

15600


Here's a drawer front :

15603
15601

Simple....key words = planning, nothing new!!!
Although, must admit, the more you try & play around "trying" to make it happen, the better you become :p

Hope this "inspires" some !!...
All the best ;)

[darren salyer]

Very nice work, Robert!!

[Kornerking]

Robert , I can see where for your applications the clamping is the best situation.

I use full sheets cutting up to 25 items from a sheet so the vac is better for me. I guess it all depends on what a person is cutting.

Nice work by the way.

[Robert M]

Thks Pete, but let's congrats each other, as you make some very nice stuff too @_# !!
There's some time I think I may have benefited of a vacuum system and I'm not saying it's no useful ( I wouldn't know really....can only assume it's benefit)...what i'm saying though, there's many ways around if one wishes to see alternatives or wait on a later date to "invest" in such a system !
On e may also make a small vacuum removable unite like some use for drag knives (like Donek and many others of this world)!!

Fun exchange-topic ....i tend to think it should me moved to another thread then taking space on Herbs....:rolleyes:

[pblackburn]

Both have their places, clamping and vacuum. Most find a method and adjust their layout around it. The best way would be to use which ever is best for the job. Clamp for this job, vacuum for that one. Please keep the pictures coming. Even small projects help someone.

Thanks for sharing.

[Kornerking]

Sorry Herb for jacking your thread.
Interesting discussion though.

[hflwaterski]

It's a good discussion. I don't mind at all.

Another quick update. Here is a video (https://vimeo.com/164999352) that shows the drawers being cut out. At the end of the video, something triggered an e-stop condition. It's been happening on occasion so maybe I have a grounding issue somewhere.

Also, not sure why the Fusion 360 software doesn't pull my dado back into the part when I use the copy command. That's why you see the dado extend beyond the part. More learnin' to do I guess.

Here are a few photos of the progress after the drawers were assembled and installed. You can also see that I'm starting to fill holes in order to prep for painting on the cabinet. Doors and drawer fronts to make and then on to some trim detail. My plywood is looking like a puzzle. :D

[pblackburn]

If you are using Mach 3, what is your debounce, it may need to be increased.

[hflwaterski]

I didn't get a chance to check out my Mach 3 settings yet. I'll try to get that information tonight.

[hflwaterski]

The debounce settings are currently '0'. After a little reading on the internet, looks like trying '1000' would be a recommended first attempt. What do you think guys?

[lonestaral]

My debounce was at 0.
I changed it to 500.
I get an occasional error if I forget to throw a bucket of water on the earth spike.:)

[hflwaterski]

Thanks Al! I'll give that a try first and see how it goes.

[lonestaral]

Most results are achieved by empirical means.

Empirical evidence, also known as sense experience, is a collective term for the knowledge or source of knowledge acquired by means of the senses, particularly by observation and experimentation. The term comes from the Greek word for experience, ἐμπειρία (empeiría).

That's a $50 word.:D

[timberlinemd]

I had the same problem. The Chinese VFD/Spindel has allot of noise. The debounce gives your electrics a chance to tell if the signal is 'real' or a 'phantom'.

I had set mine real high one time. Then when I 'homed' my machine, the home switch would engage, but the machine kept traveling and would crash into my hard stops.

Set it back some and all was fine.

[islaww]

Ive had good luck with debounce settings between 20 and 30. That requires 20+ "hits" a millisecond apart. You would have to have a freaky noise to outlast that.

[pblackburn]

I suffered through this. Here is close to the start of the posts pertaining to it. http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=61571&postcount=388

[hflwaterski]

It's been a while since I updated my progress. The photo is a little dark but you get the idea. I ran the island sides, bottom, back, drawer parts and a couple other miscellaneous pieces on the CNC which included the interior shelf holes and dados. The top is reclaimed oak barn wood about 1 1/4 thick. It's difficult to see but there are corbels under each end. Thanks for looking!

[Robert M]

Yep....you're right !!....can't see much, but we can feel your joy and satisfaction...good going !!

I'll say this tho....PITAA this forum is failing to....simply not upgrading to follow the trend in allowing MUCH bigger photo files .....
OOo well :rolleyes:

[hflwaterski]

Happy New Year to the MechMate Community!!! Be safe everyone!

[hflwaterski]

Just wanted to let anyone who is interested know that I started up a YouTube channel. I would like to mix in some demonstrations using Fusion 360 along with the MechMate. My goal is to make some fun stuff and show the process from start to finish. Part one of a bag toss game was just posted this evening. I plan on finishing the rest of the video over the next week or so. Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjYHAyJrFeI5CJ2YXP1k62g

I encourage everyone to subscribe to my channel. I'm also interested in your feeedback and whether you find the videos helpful and interesting. Thanks!

[danilom]

I'm also using Fusion 360 for my VMC milling so so its always nice to see someone else working in it and documenting it. So you have a sub from me.

[hflwaterski]

Thanks Danilo! I plan to put quite a few more videos out there. I have been waiting for warmer weather to arrive so that I can put down my spoil board permanently. Once that is done, I'll be much happier with the results. I haven't taken the time to build a touch plate. There are many other little tidy up items that I need to get to. Thanks for taking the time to watch and subscribing! I appreciate it!

[hflwaterski]

I posted another video out there on YouTube with the MechMate in action. I'm loving this machine...even for the little things! YouTube Video Here (https://youtu.be/B32yC3wK-Cg)

[MetalHead]

Cool video. Nice Production. What equipment do you film and edit with?

[hflwaterski]

Hi Mike - I'm using an old Canon T2i DSLR camera that I've had for at least 6 or 7 years or so. I did my editing using the Adobe Creative suite since I had the subscription for my business anyway. It comes with Adobe Premiere, After Effects, Illustrator, Photoshop, etc. All the things I'd ever need for putting a video together. Thanks for checking it out! I appreciate it!

[hflwaterski]

The cool thing about YouTube is that I get to see what countries are viewing the videos. I can only assume but it seems like I'm seeing many of you in the MechMate community viewing them and I think it's really great! Thank you everyone for checking them out!

[hflwaterski]

I posted an easy CNC project out on YouTube on building a clamp rack. Still a ton of interest on how to use Fusion 360. Thanks!

Link to video here. (https://youtu.be/VNjE46mEpXQ)