Cool tables and spindle ordering fun #6 - Brakpan, S.Africa

[Kobus_Joubert]

Hi there everybody.

After reading, drooling, visiting Gerald etc, I finally made a start. This will be a sloooooooow build as funds are not alway available. I shop around for the BEST price and service where ever I can.

Below (link was broken - pic lower down) are my parts back from the supplier. All 24 parts cut and bend for R 1300.00. :) With the steel price going thru the roof over here in South Africa I think this was a mistake or a bargain.

The pieces fit together perfectly and this weekend I will start to weld the Y-Car.

[Greg J]

Hi there everybody.

This will be a sloooooooow build as funds are not alway available.



Way to go Kobus, :)

Don't forget time also. If it wasn't for time and money, we'd all have a MM in about a week. :)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Don't know what happened there, but here are the parts. These chaps in Johannesburg took about 4 days.

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[Gerald D]

I see they missed a small bend....:) (1040372B)

That price ($167) sounds as if it is from a new company trying to buy into the market. I also get prices like that, but I place R50 000 to R80 000 orders per month. There is always a new kid on the block trying to buy into the big boy's markets - you have to seek them out for this type of project.

[IN-WondeR]

Funny, I also noticed that small bend missing.
But 167 dollars for a set, is a very good price...

Looking nice thoguh. Hoping to see more pictures along the way.... :-D

[Gerald D]

Kim, I would have been disappointed in you if you did not miss it :)

[IN-WondeR]

Gerald....

It's quite obvious that little thing needs a little bend....
But hey, even pro's can make mistakes....:-D

[Kobus_Joubert]

You guys are EAGLE-EYE'd. I was hoping nobody will notice it...bad photo in strong afternoon sunlight, dark background...I have spoken to them, and the next time I am in town they will fix that little 90 degree.

This company is a well established metal dealer.They cut any piece you want of any type of steel. They have a waterjet as well as the laser.

Did not manage to weld anything yet this weekend as other things around the house took preference.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Ok, some update for those that like pictures and also for the eagle eye'd chaps out there to check up and make sure I don't stuff this up. So if anything LOOKS out of place / WRONG, please shout so that I can fix it in time.

The gantry, Y-Car and spider bracket was welded up today. Took note of Alan's tip for the rectangular seam to be on the bottom. I will also drill the holes later, that is why I left the stiffening closures off till later. Thought it would be easier to get the de-burring on the inside done this way and to fit the 20mm flat bar inside.

Also picked up the gauge plate on Thursday R 362.00 for that piece of nice STRAIGHT steel.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Question to Gerald / anybody, Is the Stiffening closure cable carrier on the correct side of the gantry ?

Secondly. The Spider has about 7mm gap when I put it inside the Y-Car. Is this correct? Do I need to make up a spacer to get it in the correct place?

Thanks

[Doug_Ford]

Kobus,

I don't have the new Mamba parts but your stiffening cable carrier is where I attached my cable carrier on my Classic. 7mm is about right for space. On one side of my spider plate, I had a single washer to take up space and on the other side, I had two washers. Cram them in there if you have to because any space that remains will allow the spider to stretch out and pull the V rollers away from the Z axis plate and can cause problems when you try to tighten them up.

Your work looks good by the way.

[smreish]

I had about 2.5 mm to make up. Added a few shimming washer and everything bolted up nicely. Short is actually good in this scenario.

Kobus - nice work.., keep it up!

[Gerald D]

Didn't expect as much as 7mm but spacers are the right way to go. The spider can stretch about a mm to a 1/16" to close the last bit of gap. Bracket on gantry is in correct location.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks guys, this gives me more confidence to go out there and work on it further. I thought the laser cutting company made a misake, or I made a mistake when putting it together. On the other hand how can one go wrong with this machine. Everything is well documented, well designed and that makes it such a pleasure to build this thing.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Made some bushes this afternoon when I got back from work. Did them in the drill press. Made a small JIG that I clamped on the drill to keep bolts steady and in the same place. The 6th one is still in to be done....got dark and cold out there.

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Gerald, can I use 25 mm flat bar inside the gantry. Cannot get 20 mm from my local steel merchant...out of stock.

When you build your new machine will it be using PK296A2A SG 7.2 motors ?

[Gerald D]

Ja, 25mm should be okay. Yes, have a set of 7.2 motors.

[Kobus_Joubert]

1 amp or 2 amp motors ?

[Gerald D]

I think they are 2A's

[revved_up]

they are 3A .48 ohm

[Kobus_Joubert]

Update on building my MM. Done the Z-slide and all the holes tapped. Very easy with a cordless drill do do the tap's. Done the holes in the Y-clamp strip. Also drilled the holes on the gantry.But THEN.... On drawing 10 20 246 D revision B the top right hand drawing it shows the angle iron...the 12mm holes being 46.4 mm from the edge, but at the bottom of the same drawing point number 2. it said 46 mm from the reference edge. Does this 0.4 mm make a difference ?

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[smreish]

Kobus,
Looks good.
Nope, that .4 isn't really a big deal.
Your mock up looks very good. The mamba parts look fantastic.
Point, I know your just mocking up the z-slide, but please check to make sure your bolting up the spider in the correct set of holes to maintain your spoilboard offset. It would appear you need to move either 1 or 2 holes towards the motor end of the y-car to be balanced.

Also, I think the mamba cable chain attachment needs to face the other way - unless your doing something different with your chain.

I haven't actually used the Mamba set, I have a "classic" :p

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks for the tips Sean. I did change the cable chain support to the other side. When I bought the 60x60 angle iron I asked for STRAIGHT pieces. When I looked at them at the yard they looked straight, but at home I noticed that they are not 100%. Will I be able to get them in line when I bolt them onto the gantry and the X axis one onto the table?
About the position of the Z-slide...should I turn it around 180 degrees and bolt it to the first set of holes on the stepper side?

Gerald, if you think that the angle iron cannot be forced into position I can buy a new piece and use these parts for the legs of the big table.

Thanks, Kobus

[Gerald D]

The Z orientation is correct, just move it 2 slots closer to the y-motor.

I can't judge how bad your angle irons are for line. All I can say is that they are surprisingly easy to coax into line with the shims and the screws at close intervals. What is the biggest kink you have over 500mm? I would guess that 2mm over 500mm can be tolerated?

[Gerald D]

Found the SA Institute of Steel Construction spec: "The straightness of any length shall be such that the offset does not exceed 1/500th of that length". So you should be at 1mm per 500mm, which I think would be easy to screw down straight.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Gerald, They are not that bad. When I put them back to back next to each other, there is a slight gap in the middle. I can press this GAP close with my bare hands.

Just check me on this one. The Y-rail clamp strip holes will be tapped to 8mm. The gantry holes are 9mm and the angle iron rail holes will be 12mm. Is the 12mm holes in the rails for adjustment / straightning of the rails ?

I have my spacing at 160mm apart.

[Gerald D]

Yes, the extra gap is for adjustment.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Today managed to cut the Y-Rails down using the top part of the skate. Used about 5x Pferd 1mm thick disks to do the job. Did grinding on one rail and drilled and tapped the 8 mm holes on both Y-rail 'clamps'. Drilled all the 12mm holes on the Y-Rails.

Fitted the one rail to the gantry....still to be trimmed to length. Moved the Z-slide two positions towards the Y-Stepper on the Y-Car as indicated by Gerald.

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[turnerseng]

Just a thought,
Why not fit a cutting disc to a table saw and then send it, using the fence as a guide??

[domino11]

Andy,
Gerald actually proposed this for the rails and or the z-slide plate. He posted pictures of this on one of his threads. :) See this old thread.

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311

[Gerald D]

Table saws are too slow for the cutting disk.

Kobus, how long did it take you to cut all the rails down?

[Kobus_Joubert]

Cutting the rails was one of those jobs that I thought would be a pain. So much that I got a quote from the company that did my laser cutting. Luckily for me he came with a mad price (almost the same as all the Mamba parts) and I had to supply my own steel this time. This forced me to do it myself. And what a piece of cake. Firstly I thought of using my table saw with a cutting disk. Did a short piece of rail, but this was hectic and too dangerous to my liking. I eventually clamped the angle iron onto my table saw top and grinded piece by piece using the table saw as a nice straight reference surface. All in all it took no more than one hour to do one rail. Much easier moving a small grinder than a BIG LUMPY piece of steel.

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[Kobus_Joubert]

Update... This weekend I spend most of my time with building the walls higher in my workshop. It used to be a pigeon coup with a low roof. So I started by lifting the roof. Then I had to fill the gap, and if you are not a brick layer it is slow going. But we are getting there.

I did manage to cut the long rails down and this afternoon I will start to grind the rails this afternoon when I get back from work.

I have a small problem. My laser cut parts have a very smooth shiny surface. I did sand it a little, but I am afraid that the paint will not stick to it. It still does not want to rust. What is the best way to prepare it for painting?

[Doug_Ford]

Is sandblasting an option for you? I bought a cheap sandblaster that is slow but works with my small air compressor.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Hi Doug, I only have a small 24 litre compressor. Tried sandblasting, but no luck. I have about 6 bar pressure on the compressor, but it did not want to suck up the sand. Maybe something is wrong on the venturi of the gun that I used. What size pipe do you use on your gun. Mine has a fitting that is about 16mm. I suppose I cannot put a 16mm plastic pipe on it to suck up sand....too heavy... so what size pipe do you use.

[Kobus_Joubert]

This is the type of sandblasting gun I used, but I mine did not come with the pipe, so I am not sure what size to use.

Any suggestions?

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[Kevin]

Kobus

Here in the US we have stores that sell paint and supplys to the auto repair shops. They sell an acid etch/cleaning products, one type for aluminum and a type for steel. I always clean and etch my parts prior to painting. Not wanting to start an enviremental war pool acid will etch the metal as well.

Kevin

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Kevin, We have etch primer available from these shops. I have not used it before, so don't know if it is the right stuff for me. I usually use MS-Primer...yellow in color... wonder how this will stick to this smooth black surface.
The pool acid we get is so watered down, I don't think it will do anything to my surface...but it is always good to try.

[Doug_Ford]

Kobus,

The last time I sandblasted was several years ago and I got rid of the unit since then. The type I was using had a tank that you filled with sand and pressurized rather than the siphon type you are showing. It worked great and I was using a small compressor too. I think it is about 24 liters also. I wish I could give you more details. Maybe acid etching primer is the cheapest route.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Doug,

I changed the ceramic insert last night, and now it is working. I think the first one was faulty. :)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Now is this a NICE colour ?:D:D:D

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A friend of a friend that promised to make me the V-Tyres decided that he cannot make it anymore.:mad:...Therefore no movement yet.

[sailfl]

kobus,

Looking very good. I also like the blue top table....

[Alan_c]

Mooi man, baaie mooi...

I also bought my decals friday, and gave second coat to the gantry, Y-car and Control box this morning, no pics at this point but we seem to be level pegging, time for this Stormer to up his game, can't have a Shark/Lion taking the lead...:D

Interesting note on the cost of the vinyl cut letters, The first quote for 5 "MechMates" in three different sizes came in at R250.00 (I supplied complete artwork, all they had to do was cut!), An hour later the second quote came in at R150.00 (getting better) and just before closing the last one came in at R75.00, on confirmation, the job was ready 15 min later - and all these shops were within a 2Km radius of each other. I'd be interested to know what you paid for yours up there?

[Kobus_Joubert]

Hi Alan, this Shark is way behind you. The way I do this project....beg borrow and steal....I do the bits as I get them. I have the gantry and car, that is about it. I am waiting for my table beams...yes also from a friend of a friend of a friend at a good price. My kitchen project has not even started yet...but I will get there.

About the decals...well one good thing to owning your own vinyl cutter, I don't have to be screwed on that side. The amount of vinyl used on my machine was no more than R 6.00. Yes six South African Rand.

Alan what did it cost you to bring the wheels into South Africa. Did they just put them into the post ? I think I have to go that route because I got a quote from some engineering firm to make me 14 pieces, but for that price I can go to Adendorf ... www.tooltime.co.za and buy myself a lathe and do the job myself.

[Alan_c]

Hi Kobus

If I remember correctly, I paid about R1800 including postage for 14 rollers and 6 cams - about the same price I was quoted to just turn the tyres here in CT. I should have got 4 extra cams as I cant start assembling yet - 4 of my cams are still on the skate and I havent done the x-rails yet so I dont want to take it apart.

Superior bearings is a pleasure to deal with, and their stuff is good quality.

[hennie]

Hi KOBUS & Alan

Quite interesting what things cost I got a quote for cnc cutting in George and the price for cutting only was R 1816 and no bending and some parts were missing total cost at the end of the day was R 2 400,00.

I am also taking longer than expected as I am still trying to decide on what motors I will be using and also where the closest suppliers are for most of my electrical supplies. I would probably end up taking a long weekend to Cape Town and get it from there.

Most of my steel has been cut and are ready to be welded (will start posting pic`s soon).I am also trying to get most of the parts together first but the more i see your MM the sooner i would like to sart,also most of of my parts have been supplied by cnc direct.(bob,transformers,reduction gears and belts and pinion gears) prices are not that bad.

[Doug_Ford]

Your parts look beautiful too Kobus. Hang in there.

[Greg J]

Nice work Kobus !!

Your logo's are looking good.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Hallo Hennie, are you using the steppers from CNC direct also?

[hennie]

Hi Kobus

Still Deciding On Size As Most Of My Parts Are From Them I Am Looking At Using The 34hsx308 Stepper.if I Use Them I Need To Use Two Integrated Power Supplies Also Trying To Find A Reason Why.

Will You Use The Bob From Them ?

[Kobus_Joubert]

Don't know yet still waiting for Jan to get back to me regarding the USA order.

[hennie]

Also Try RSSOUTHAFRICA.COM or visit them they are in KYALAMI MIDRAND they stock some interresting parts.

IS ANYONE OF OUR LOCAL BUILDERS USING THE BOB FROM CNC DIRECT ?

[Alan_c]

RS South Africa WILL induce cardiac arrest on sight of their prices!!!, sure they have almost everything in one place but a little shopping around or direct sourcing on the web will find the same or similar item for a lot less.

I have a CNC Direct BOB at home, have not tried it yet but their build quality is impressive, and its very compact.

[hennie]

Alan , you are not using it for your machine or is it for another build

I must say that I agree with you about the quality I got one also but most of the other builders are using other bobs .I still need to figure out how to wire it.It does look simple but still don`t have the courage and all the parts to do the kitchen table project.

[Alan_c]

I have a Bob Cambell board for this machine, the CNC direct board will go into the next one.

Take it slow and ask questions if you are not sure.

[hennie]

THANKS WILL DO

My problem is to get all the parts together as it is always nice to start and finish with one go, it doesn`t always happen like that but it is a nice idea.

[Robert M]

I have a Bob Cambell board for this machine, the CNC direct board will go into the next one.
Alan, Is there something you’re not pleased with the Cambell board ?
Why the CNC direct for the next one ?. I’d really appreciate more in depth I’m sure other too would like to know !
Robert

[Alan_c]

Nothing wrong with the Cambell board - I haven't run enough yet to test it out properly anyway, but the CNC Direct board is designed and built locally and I would want to test it to see how it compares, and with the current exchange rates it's better to keep the money in the country - we have a saying "Local is Lekker" meaning nice and the idea is to support local manufacturers where possible.

[Robert M]

Thanks Alan for the clarification.
Also quite nice to know some others still support basic GOOD values ( a rare one in this day & age). Producing make me more prone to those!
Take care, Robert

[Belli]

Hi Kobus,

Drop me a line and I can probably sort you out for some Geckodrives.

Regards,
Greg
;)

www.cncdirect.co.za

[Kobus_Joubert]

Wow what a surprise. I contacted Belli thinking he can give me a good price on some Geckos, but that was not it...he gave me 4 x G202 Gecko's for FREE...some old stock he said and as he only stock G203 these are lying around.
I then bought a transformer from him and the Mach3 BOB as well. I will buy some G203's at a later stage.

Now waiting for my wheels from Rick and the steppers from China to arrive.

I must have been a good boy's scout helping little old ladies across the street, because this is not where it ended. My brother in law's son is a draughtman and have contacts in the steel industry. On Wednesday he contacted me telling me to come and pick up my main beams and cross supports...also for FREE. So this weekend the table was assembled. Not completed yet, but standing.

On the picture my little pension eater...yea the little one born 11 years after my eldest son is getting a feel of the new table....incase the BIG Boss of the house tells us to get out and sleep with MECH MATE

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[sailfl]

Kobus,

Life is looking good! MechMate, 3 Dogs, pool and your yougest son. The table looks good also.

[hennie]

Hi Kobus

Dit lyk of jy baie besig was laasweek? Dit wil gedoen word!
Goeie insperasie ,maak mens skoon jaloers.

[Kobus_Joubert]

The table went together quickly. On Saturday morning I was riding around trying to find 25 mm MDF or Plywood for the base. Eventually found a sheet of 29mm Ply at TIMBERCITY in Boksburg on the East Rand. Got home at about 14:00 and started assembly. By 17:00 it was bolted together. I had the cross members drilled up to 6.5mm, so it was a matter of making 12mm holes where it bolted to the main beam and 10mm holes for the ply base board.

[Kobus_Joubert]

The beast are getting together at a fast pace....for me :D
Yesterday my motors arrived from China via TNT-Express..no import duty/fee..delivered right to my home. :)Went to my postbox...little slip...wheels from Rick arrived. Went to the Post Office counter. Lady brings parcel, but I had to pay R 292.02 (VAT). Was so happy that everything arrived without incident that I paid her with a smile.
Got home, quickly opened parcels to check. Everything is correct as ordered. Thanks Rick and Media Lee at MotionKing for prompt service.
Went outside..painted the control box the final coat of Ford Tractor Blue....the ONLY blue in the world... and rushed inside to get a stepper to turn on the Kitchen project. Wired one stepper up, started Mach 3, did some mapping and :D:D:D I can control a STEPPER via my computer...What a feeling...WOW !!!!!!!

[Alan_c]

Veels geluk Kobus,

Now you are really off and running...

[Lex]

Bakgat man! I can see that everything is falling in place at a good rate for you. Have you got your control box done yet?

[Kobus_Joubert]

Painted the box , will start wiring it up soon. Will play with the kitchen project a little to TUNE Geckos etc before final installation.

[Kobus_Joubert]

One little problem. When I had my parts cut the motor mounts were for geared motors. Due to budget constraints I ended up buying motors without gearboxes. I can drill new holes on the X and Y bracket, but it seems that the Z- plate is too small. Any suggestions ?:confused:

[Robert M]

Kobus,
The motor holes (bolt pattern) on the universal Z motor plate (M5 10 322) are the same than the geared one. Plate may seem smaller ( witch is) but the not affecting motor mounting. The issue that differs those plates is more about the “gear / shaft hole location. The center point on the geared version ( M5 10 324) is lowered and the hole for the motor shaft is smaller.
I would just enlarge this hole in an oblong shape in order to move the center point of the hole so your std motor w/out gear box can be attached to it.
A part or picture is worth a thousand words, right !!
So, I’ve redrawn you the Geared motor mount so you can see what I believe is your simple solution & should work.
1500

Hope I’ve help. If you’d like a pdf or dxf and Gerald approves, I could post it or email it to you !??

Amicalement, Robert ! ;)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Can anybody help me with Uni/Bipolar connection on my MotionKing stepper (34HS9801). Like Gerald suggested only use half the motor. Will this mean I connect the stepper using Red/Yellow and White/Orange according to the diagram.

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[Gerald D]

Red/Yellow and White/Orange will be a correct option for "half" motor connection.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Gerald, Is this now Bi-Polar ? What is the difference to the right hand picture which is also Bi-Polar.
The first picture say Uni/Bi-polar (8 leads) and the right one Bi-Polar (4 leads)
Is the way we now discussed it Bi-Polar HALF-Winding, and the right hand picture Bi-Polar FULL - Winding ?
This is still Greek to me:confused:

[Gerald D]

Kobus, have another look at the first posts in this thread:

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256

Red/Yellow and White/Orange will be Unipolar

[Gerald D]

Have deleted some distracting posts - sorry Kobus

[Kobus_Joubert]

Ok gentlemen since this is my thread on my build I will give a short update.

This weekend i mounted the X-Rails on the table. When I started I thought I will NEVER get it right. The rails were as crooked as a railway line after a massive earth quake. I measured out the width of the gantry, then started with the first rail. I drilled hole for hole, making sure I get it even and straight on the main beam. I then put the gantry on and ran the gantry inch for inch and lined up the second rail drilling hole for hole. The end result is a gantry running as smooth as baby snot on the rails....I am very, very impressed.

Then I fixed the diagonal braces in place. Took everything apart and painted it with MS-Primer and on Sunday the Ford Tractor Blue went on. Still to do the Cross Members with a coat on the OTHER side.

Went into the house, and finished up on the wiring of the Control Box. This finished I fired up Mach3 again and got all 4 motors to turn....even the X-Axis motors in the right direction. All in all a very productive weekend.

Will post some pictures tonight.

[Gerald D]

Sounds like a good weekend all round! Obviously you didn't have to mow the lawn, clean the pool, wash the dogs . . . . :)

Suggest that you "move" one of the motors at a slow speed for about an hour and regularly check its temperature. (stick the cursor key down to the keyboard). Then you can put the temperature vs power supply voltage issue to bed.

Also tune your Gecko's for midband resonance at this point - easiest to do before they are installed.

[Kobus_Joubert]

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Just after fitting the X-Rails. The first cross beam removed to be able to fit the diagonal support.

1531

Big Blue Brakpan (BBB) is taking colour

The cross beams and bottom supports are painted

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Control Box taking shape. Geckos mounted on ALU Heatsink. Will be attatched to box after TUNING.

[Doug_Ford]

Kobus,

You have a beautiful home and pool. If you have a spare bedroom, I'd be more than happy to come over and help you finish up. I figure we could get her working in...oh....three or four years.

[Gerald D]

You know Doug, you have given me a thought . . . . .

I have 4 machines to build, and I need more hands badly. Any volunteers to come out here for tax-deductable training perhaps? :)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Hi Doug, you are welcome, but just check on the weather. Cape Town has wet and cold winters right now. Up here in Johannesburg it's .....BLERRIE....cold, but at least when the sun comes out it's nice...The pool is a NO GO area at present

PS, the building behind the MM is my workshop.......former pigeon coop...not my home.....but you knew that...ha ha

[Gerald D]

Doug, and it gets even colder there over the next 2 months. The grass goes brown (killed by frost) - but there are signs of it going blue already. The cold winter in the Johannesburg area is due to the high altitude (5000ft).

[Kobus_Joubert]

I don't know why, but mommy is complainig that her flowers that survived the frost also has a hue of blue lately...I think it looks great...at least SOME colour in the garden.:p

[Kobus_Joubert]

Just received my new motor mounts. Nice thing about a big city is that it is possible to get some parts fairly quickly. I ordered on Friday last week, and this morning they were ready...R 132.00 for all 4....actually got 5 as the one piece was not cut out cleanly, but he threw it in for free.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Update after this long weekend.:
I moved the BBBB...Brakpan Big Blue Beast into it's home after painting the rest of the parts. When I put it together it did not run true on the rails any longer, and it took me about a half a day to get it all straight and true again. Still have to shim the Y-rail a little....car runs flat and true on both ends of the rail, but in the middle there is a bit of rocking that I need to sort out.
I need to get some nuts and bolts today, will mount my motors tonight and work out how to run the wires. Nearly there...Gerald, get the Serial number ready......

[hennie]

Kobus sms my jou fax nr. dan stuur ek vir jou `n lys.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Gerald,

Can you do me a nice DXF file for the router bracket. My router has a round body 90mm diagonal, and the clamp section is about 60mm high. If I try and do it, it will be a monster, but I trust that you can make something simple and nice for this that I can attach to the existing Z-plate.

[Gerald D]

Sorry, not soon

[Kobus_Joubert]

Anybody else with CAD experience ? Thanks

[Lex]

Will help. Verduidelik mooi :)
I am still new at this game

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Johan,

The Makita I will put on to start with has a round body. The bracket must look like this photo. 90 mm diagonal and the mounting distance (height) about 60mm. It must be on a " L " plate that screw onto the Z-Plate

Thanks

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[Robert M]

Kobus, I’ll be happy to help!
Let me know if you need my assistance ?
Robert ;)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Robert, I don't know who designed this bracket on the photo, but I need something like this. If Johan (Lex) cannot help, I will push on your button.

[Lex]

Kobus,
I am not always this fast! Had some time to kill.
Check all the dimensions before I save it as a dxf

[J.R. Hatcher]

I think the 2 back corners need to be cut down to miss the guide rollers. If it's done now (as a drawing);) it looks better. :eek:

[Kobus_Joubert]

Good tip J.R. will check it out tonight at home.
Johan, I would rather see the front bracket "LOOSE" on both sides...this way I can put a screw on each side and if I need adjustment, it's easier to add a washer or to take some MEAT off. Will let you know tomorrow.

[Lex]

Do you mean chamfers on the corners? Or stepped back at the back and vertical sides, at each corner?

[Kobus_Joubert]

I think JR means the back coners chamfered. If this bolt onto the Z-plate, the guide wheels could interfere. Look at the Y-Car Z-plate assembly.

[Gerald D]

Change name of attached file to slide.dxf and it should open in CAD to give reason for chamfer

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Gerald. If I use a 5 or 6 mm piece of steel that will sit on the z-slide, then mount the 2 brackets that are 110mm wide on this, they should clear the guidewheels...no harm in given the back two edges a small chamfer...got that Johan ?

[Lex]

I can see it clearly on Gerald sketch (thanks). Will send send something 'thro' shortly. The 6mm Pl on the Z-slide will act as a spacer to move the bracket away from the guide roller, right. Right

[Gerald D]

I am a sucker for punishment . . . . . .

Router might be too close to slide? Plate 12mm thick is enough. Depends on your laser cutter's ability to cut 12mm very neatly. Attached is a sketch - no attempt has been made to get it real world. Meant for Lex to play with.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks SUCKER. ;)..that is the one I want...I knew you would come up with a good solution..

[Lex]

This is Gerald's bracket. More simpler

[Lex]

Sorry, having problems in getting the dxf attached

[Lex]

Hope it works now. Please change extention back to dxf

[Lex]

Second part. The speed is way down on our network here at work. Slower than a land line at the moment. Big thanks for your help Gerald!

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Johan, Just to make sure I understand the drawing...I import it to Coreldraw and are not sure about the dimentions.. The BACK-foot that will connect to the Z-Plate...how wide is it....it should be in the region of 95mm to fit onto the Z-plate. The HOLE size for router is 90 mm ? When I screw it together will there be a gap between the 2 pieces?

[Lex]

This should help

[Gerald D]

Johan, your 116 dimension has different endings

[Lex]

Eish! Sorry .... again :o

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Johan, already send it off to be quoted. Asked for Alu or Steel....price will decide AGAIN. Suppose 16mm thick material will be OK.

[Gerald D]

Kobus, are you happy that your router "top" is less than 10mm bigger than the body at the bottom? You don't want the top to jam against the slide before the bottom lies in the cradle.

Don't order alu laser cut until you have seen the supplier's quality. Alu is not as nice as steel.

Remember that this is all moving mass - you have to counterweight it carefully for a direct drive z-motor.

[Kobus_Joubert]

That's right the top is within the 10mm size. What you say is that I should go for steel (16mm) and put maybe a bigger gas strut in to counterwight it.
I think he does Alu with his waterjet...if so and quality looks good Alu is the preferred option because of weight.
On the other hand my little router is so small and light...lot less weight than the spindles I have seen.

[Gerald D]

See post #101 on suggested thickness. 16mm steel is often on the rough limit of a laser cutter's ability. 12mm will always turn out neater than 16mm. And it is PLENTY strong enough. Your router cannot take a big clamping force. Regarding weight, I am simply saying you must hou kop and get the whole thing to balance at the end. Now I am going to bale out of here for a while and get some work done!

[kaartman]

Dag sê manne
Kobus that is one nice machine you are building, so much enthusiasm, I also want to build a cnc router but due to space limits I cannot build the MM, will one day when I am back in Mosselbay.
I cannot believe the bargains you picked up, for instance the Motionking motors, they quoted me usd 380 just for shipping 4- 34H motors cost is 230 usd, After 5 e-mails to Gecko am I still waiting for a reply
Here in Abu Dhabi no one knows about ACME, linear slides or anything, to have machining done is highly expensive ( usd 300) to have 4 tefflon bushes turned, I don’t even want to know what the MM main car will cost me here,
I am not giving up will get there one day, tuff to try and build something in a 1st world country, keep up the good work, I would like to see your first “cut”
Cheers
Koning

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Koning, It is only a pleasure getting into a build of this quality. Once you start you cannot stop. Last night I went into the workshop...yes in the cold...to do some things. I made my 'teflon' washers from 1mm plastic sheet that I had ex sinage stock. Cut it out with a holesaw and used 2 of these washers at each point.
One bit of advice for future builders.

Please drill and tap your 6mm holes for the racking. I left it till last because I was not sure if everything that I did was 100% up to the dimentions in the plans. I thought I will put it together, mount the motors and check that the pionions REACH the rack at the correct position. Trust me and prepare your racks to fit flush on the side of the X and Y rail...they will fit. I had to take the Y-rail off last night to drill and tap. Tonight or sometime this weekend I will have to take the X-Rails off to do the same there....lots of extra work.:(

[Gerald D]

Kobus, you do not actually need the screws in the end of the racks. I put them in the design for the folk who are nervous about the double-sided tape. :)

"Trust me and prepare your racks to fit flush on the side of the X and Y rail...they will fit." The perfectionists may argue the flush aspect since the drawings show those tapped holes as 7.5mm [0.3"] from the edge (yes Kobus, the holes are on the drawing :)), while metric racks are 16mm wide and inch racks are 0.5" wide. Also, the clearance holes drilled through the rack are shown as 8mm[5/16"]. The holes in the rack can happily be increased to get the racks flush if you want - remember, those screws don't actually do anything ;). (ShopBot only use tape, and there have been rare reports of racks falling off. But, their care in selecting the tape and cleaning the surfaces is unknown)

[hennie]

Hi Koning,

Do you miss your home town?Just to let you know its raining and the wind is bad ! Previous night fishing trawler washed out on the main beach next to Beacon Isle 5 meters from the rocks.But we are all addicted to our MM build and I am already in trouble with the BOSS.

Gerald I think we must start a thread just for the other half and see what they have to say.Might become quite interresting.

[Gerald D]

Go for it Hennie, get your boss to start that thread! :)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Oooooo Gaats hier kom poefies.. Here comes trouble...BIG time

[hennie]

Shows you "ek jaag al weer aan." stirring where I should not.

This one is for our english speaking friends.In Afrikaans there is a saying "moet nie aan die koei se g.a.t. krap nie."and that means don`t scratch where you are not suppose to.And what happens we just did!:D
So to all our friends from over the big oceans if someone looks for trouble you can use Afrikaans!

[Gerald D]

Hou matigheid voor oë

[Kobus_Joubert]

Done one of the X-rail's rack last night. Decided that I would like a bolt on each side, but are not prepared to to the rail off to do drilling and tapping. I drilled a 6mm hole on the side, opened it up with a 10mm for the allen cap head and tapped a hole in the side of the main beam. Some shim washers between beam and rack, some double sided tape and the rack is on.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Just got in from the cold, but could not wait...here is the proof...:D:D

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1604

1605

[Gerald D]

10 weeks ago you said:

. . . . I finally made a start. This will be a sloooooooow build . . .

You are a liar, Sir!

[Greg J]

Congrats Kobus,

But all I see is a MechMa ... :)

She looks beautiful.

[domino11]

Congratulation Kobus. :)

[Gerald D]

But all I see is a MechMa ...

Caroline is the MechMa :)

[Lex]

You really pulled out all the stops this last two weeks!
It is a good looking machine. :cool:Congratulations.
I am extremly jealous.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks guys and sorry Gerald, but this thing is ADDICTIVE....once you start you just cannot stop.
Now I need to get MACH3 to do what I want, fit the router and level my worksurface.
Gerald, do you have a count of MM build to date. I would love to put a number on old BBB....Brakpan Big Blue.

[Gerald D]

Look at the thread title for the count - it was posted 9pm yesterday :)
Your thread is now also a "sticky", it stays at the top together with the other "numbered" machines.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Wow # 6...Thanks Gerald for making this available for the man in the street like me. This dream came together thanks to all the wonderful people on this forum. This is not a speech, but I have to mention Greg that donated 4 x Gecko's and Riaan that donated the main table steel. My total so far is under R 25 000.00. Later when...not if BBB generate some income, I will go for a nice spindle.

THANKS to EVERYBODY !!:D:D

[hennie]

Hi Kobus

Bakgat!!

Now I am going to be in trouble even more to complete mine.
"geniet hom swaer"

[Alan_c]

Well done Kobus,

pretty good, even for a Shark :D, judging by your speed of progress you should have mach3 and the router sorted by Friday?

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Alan, I was fortunate that other people did all the hard work in designing and de-bugging the build process. I just kept my mouth shut...like a good Shark...got down and dirty and ended up with a superior toy...something that will keep me close to mommy for years to come.

Mach 3 sorted by Friday...come on man I am a Shark supporter...tonight is the night !!!:rolleyes:

[Lex]

Careful with that Shark remark Alan! :)
There are more than one on this forum

[Gerald D]

More than one anti-Shark too :D

[Kobus_Joubert]

Shame

[bbreaker]

nice job Kob it's time to mount a router or a spindle :)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Hi Mickey, brackets for router is at the lasercut company. Will pick them up around Wednesday. In the meantime I think it is safe to play around with a pen and paper until I fully understand and can drive the beast without crashing and breaking things.

[bbreaker]

i'm ok kob, i do the same with my first CN, and it's real, breaking is expensive, but with router, you learn feed's and speed, this is i think the hard to learn.

[sailfl]

Kobus,

Congratulations! Job well done.......!

[kaartman]

Congratulations Kobus, Eisch that is nice, Sure it is warmer in your heart than outside, enjoy

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks guys, its now up to the old grey matter upstairs to get a good grip on the software.

You see Koning, I am a man that cannot wait for something to happen..as a project manager... I MAKE things happen:)

[Kobus_Joubert]

I have some learning to do, but at the moment I play with MACH3 and the wizards / programs that come with it. From the calculations of my rack/pinion/motor I get about 32 steps per pulse. I then set up my velocity to about 3048mm/min (120inch/min). I think the Acceleration is about 101mm/sec.

When I use the WRITE Wizard the G-Code is posted and I start to CUT//write with my big pen plotter. The motors are ticking over very slowly and I have to increase the FEEDRATE manually to get the thing to move / write. Is this just a problem of this particular Wizard?

I also tried to make a design in CorelDraw...exported it to a DXF file. Opened it with LazyCam, but did not see my design.

I then opened up one of the DXF file as supplied by Gerald for the laser cut parts, and this I can see in LazyCam.
This part is the steep learning curve I have to battle with at the moment.
Thanks,
Kobus

[Gerald D]

The velocity, that you set at 3048mm/min, on the motor tuning screen, is the peak, or jog, velocity of the system.

To set an actual "CUT//write" velocity, you need an "F" statement in your g-code.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Gerald, that's correct, but the Wizard put a F=1 in if I remember correctly...so that lies with how the wizard was set up. I could not find anywhere to change the feed rate on this Wizard. Will edit the file manually and then try again. Will also play more with Lazycam tonight.

[Gerald D]

If the wizard doesn't ask for the speed (or the material), then be grateful that it adds a F=1 in the g-code.........makes an easy place for you to edit. :)

Editing g-code files manually for speed is fairly standard practice, unless you want the "wizard" to ask about your material, cutter bluntness, surface finish needed, etc. We don't use the Mach wizards (nor Lazycam) so I can't tell you if there is a better way of using that wizard.

[Lex]

Hallo Kobus,
I am working on my import list.
Did you import the motors from Oriental?
What else did you get from the States?

[Kobus_Joubert]

Hi Johan, Correct, steppers from China directly and the wheels from America. The rest all local. Phone/mail me if you have any questions....will see if I can help.

[Kobus_Joubert]

I am little bit confused...and that is easily achieved.:confused:.
For about 2 day's I am fighting to get my DESIGNS into Mach3 to 'cut'.

I have Mach3 version R2.63 and on the FILE menu only have ...LOAD G-Code
......LazyCAM
......Close File
......Exit

BUT....If I read the MACH3 MILL manual they talk about Importing DXF, HPGL, BMP and JPG directly from MACH3 FILE menu.

I know that I can IMPORT them into LazyCam, but me and LazyCam is not seeing eye to eye at the moment and I cannot get my design situated on the correct start point etc etc.

Anybody with more experience please fell free to help me...I NEED to make dust this weekend and time is running out.
Thanks in advance

[Gerald D]

Have you tried the Lazycam forum? Probably part of www.machsupport.com (http://www.machsupport.com)?

An economical product that is well accepted is www.sheetcam.com (http://www.sheetcam.com). I am convinced the free trial version will have you going by the weekend.

This product's trial will also have you cutting soon:
http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/cut2D/c2d_index.htm

Both of the suggested products are UK-based (our time zone) and have excellent forums. I was honoured to meet the writers of both programs in England 3 years ago and they are extremely approachable, helpful people.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Gerald, Sheetcam and c2d will be tried. I got home last night DETERMINED to get it right with LazyCam. With all new programs you go through this learning curve...sometime its easy, sometimes its more difficult. LazyCam interface is not like all windows programs where you click, drag and presto you resize your work. Some actions can be mouse driven, but others needs a manual typed input to change something.

I also found out that if I do my design in CoreDraw..which I have used for years now...and export to DXF, I get funnies in LazyCam/ Mach3. But if I export it to WMF format, it works well in LazyCam and Mach3.

[J.R. Hatcher]

I tried to use Lazycam but gave up because of the lack of help within the program. I am using Sheetcam with good results because of 2 reasons, 1st ... Marc helped me a lot and 2nd Sheetcam has excellent help within the program. My vote goes for Sheetcam. Marc and I have talked to Les (the developer?) and he is very willing to listen and make things work better for CNC Routers. I think the program has been used a lot more for plasma cutters than routers. Just think about all the extra control you need for a router. Anyway just my 2 cents worth.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks JR, was wondering WHY I cannot get it right with LazyCam straight away...not as user friendly as I would have expected it to be. Will give it another go tonight, and then on to Sheetcam....there goes my budget again.

[Gerald D]

There are some other budget CAM programs listed here:

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=19

[Greg J]

Kobus,

I'm using the VCarve Pro programs. Very easy and intutive. I was carving wood within 1 hour of opening the program.

[ekdenton]

+1 on the vectric products. I wound up picking the vcarve pro also.

I downloaded a free trial of sheetcam and tried to figure out both lazy cam and sheet cam, IMHO both were very complicated compared to vcarve. There is a forum for vcarve with help and support also. $$ for vcarve pro is more than sheetcam but I think that they have a lower priced 2D software now that is avaliable and I think you can upgrade the 2D later to vcarve pro without having to pay the full price of the vcarve pro. I would still perfer the vectric 2D over sheetcam.

Not that I am advertising for or pushing any peticular software, all seem overpriced to me except for Mach 3, just echoing an opinion that the vectric is pretty simple and works well, even for thick headed guys like me:D

The CAM discussion has been copied here:
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=854 (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=854)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Between FIGHTING to get the software sorted, I did my router bracket last night...yes in the cold.... Don't worry I decided to replace the main bearing while I am busy putting it on the BBB. This little Makita router served me well for many years and is still going strong, so the least I can do is fit a new bearing before it starts it life as a CNC router.

1636

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[Greg J]

This little Makita router served me well for many years and is still going strong, so the least I can do is fit a new bearing before it starts it life as a CNC router.

I like a man with good morals. :)

[Gerald D]

That bracket looks quite nice in real life. :)

Are you using the 1bolt+2dowels attachment at the back? That hasn't been spoken about for ages, and I guess most people don't realise why there are those odd holes in the z-slide. More pics of this would be appreciated - if applicable.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thats right just like you designed it boss...one bolt from he back to take it apart. The 2 dowels are actually two M6 x 10 C/S grub screws...countersunk from the front. Sorry my cellphone camera is not the right tool for more detail.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Between some house and garden work I did manage to play with old BBB today. Main thing was to get the table straight....this was done with a 25mm bit...two passes and it was FLAT.

Then I tried various programs and ended up with V-Carve 2D....found this by far the easiest to understand. Late in the afternoon I did the Gear example that comes with the program. I was amazed by the fine detail that I was able to cut...that small gear is about 22mm in diameter..clean as a whistle....done on 3mm MDF.

Also found a easy way to FACE a rough block of wood that I have cut from a tree a while back....this thing was as skew as ...I don't know what.

It's nice to see all the wood chips in the workshop...THANKS Gerald and fellow forum friends.:)

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[Alan_c]

Good to see your machine christened with dust - goed gedaan.

ps you are a day late :D ref Monday post #134

[Greg J]

Kobus,

Congratulations !!!

It's a good feeling, isn't it. :)

[Gerald D]

That's the first report we have of direct drive Motion King motors cutting wood. Watching these "affordable" motors very closely . . . .

[hennie]

Nice Kobus!

Did you surface the table with a filler applied to the mdf?and if so what did you use?

[domino11]

Congratulations Kobus,
Those gears look great. Keep us informed on how those inexpensive motors are working for you. Are there any plans for using JRs belt reduction scheme? :)

[Lex]

Congraltulations.
The machine seems to run smoothly.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Hi there all, thanks for reading my progress. Every day I learn more and more and it is such a GOOD feeling.

Hennie, my base is a 19mm plywood. I just got my 25mm bit into the router...set it up on the left hand side... jog down to touch the board and rode the gantry up and down, up and down to the right hand side.. dropped the z-axis a bit and jogged it back up and down the length of the table to the left hand side again....Suppose I could have done a little g-code to do it, but doing it manually, i could SKIM it bit for bit until it was flat.

Heath: The idea is to cut out the parts for a reduction system with old BBB if...I say If I need it. At the moment I am still getting to grips with a lot of theory and practice on the machine. Cutting so far is not bad...pretty good even if I say so myself..but as I learn more and more, I might just add the reduction.

Johan, Thanks for the help the other day. I am amazed by the fine detail that you can do with such a BIG machine. I think that if your cut / feedrate is correct, you can get very good work done.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Things that I am learning....

I tried to cut a pocket on a slab of wood. Set up a nice rectangle, told it to cut it out 2 mm deep. Started up and WHAT !!...this thing did not cut on my lines. CAM show rectangle, Mach show rectangle, but on MACH the actual cut is more like an old propeller...see the photo. After supper went back to tame the beast and realised that my acceleration and velocity settings could be wrong. When jogging from the keyboard this thing would take off build up some speed...when you let the arrow on the keyboard go it took time for the mass to come to a standstill, and this is what was wrong. I adjusted the acc. and velocity setup's and now I get a perfect rectangle.
Other people with non gearbox steppers ....what are your setting on the acceleration and velocity ?

The second picture is playing around with cutters en pictures. For small engraving things like this I really need smaller / finer cutters.

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[Gerald D]

I am amazed by the fine detail that you can do with such a BIG machine. I think that if your cut / feedrate is correct, you can get very good work done.

and

For small engraving things like this I really need smaller / finer cutters.

Actually you really need much smaller table with ballscrews and fine reductions. You are trying to use a tractor as a bridal car! :D

[Kobus_Joubert]

Well this TRACTOR is a joy to have. I am only playing on small pieces to LEARN the ropes. If I understand everything it will be let out of it's cage to go and cut the BIG things...Front doors, room dividers big signs etc.

[hennie]

Een MM te koop dalk?:)

[Gerald D]

Nee, 'n tweede kleiner een om te bou!

[hennie]

Ja, as ek dit nie verkeerd het nie maak `n boer `n plan.Kobus geniet jou breek lyk my dit is nodig.

[Lex]

How does those Motion kings holding up!
Sing hulle soprano:)
It looks like that I will be going that route as well.:cool:
It was a pleasure helping you with that small dxf. Shout if there is anything else.

[hennie]

Johan wat gaan jy gebruik Motion king of Fulling?

[Gerald D]

Ek trek sy been oor 'n tweede masjien

[Kobus_Joubert]

I am happy with what I have...and PROUD.... you have to kill me to take it away from me. Steppers are doing what they should .... as good as my Chinese GWM bakkie.

[hennie]

Right My China!:)

[Alan_c]

Kobus

What have you done regarding the cable chain? I dont see any pics of your set-up, did you get from your local supplier at the good price as mentioned before? What is the lengths of your cables as finally assembled?

ps - Sorry for the loss over the weekend :p, now we are on the same position on the log :D

[Kobus_Joubert]

Just had to have a quick look at the forum via Black Berry in the lounge at the lodge. No signal at the cabin. Will feedback on Friday night when I get home.

Kobus

What have you done regarding the cable chain? I dont see any pics of your set-up, did you get from your local supplier at the good price as mentioned before? What is the lengths of your cables as finally assembled?

ps - Sorry for the loss over the weekend :p, now we are on the same position on the log :D

[Kobus_Joubert]

Hi there, I am back, rested and ready to get to BBB tomorrow....after doing some work in and around the house. Was also told/instructed by the BOSS today to get on and build her Glass Fusing and Slumping Kiln now that I have my TOY.

Wel I did go and play with different CAM software and in the end decided to go for Cut2D from Vectric. Very easy to use and understand, the price is right and I am sure that it will do what I want it to do for a while.

Alan, when I got the quote for the cable chain I was not ready to jump in and build my machine. By the time I got to that stage, the price whent up by 3. So what I did, I bundled the cables together, screwed plastic anchors about half way into the beams and used cable ties to get them on the machine. The X-Axis DRAGS on the ground where nobody walks and on the Y I made some sort of BASKET where the cables can wind and unwind. Will try and get some pictures tomorrow.

[Alan_c]

Alan, when I got the quote for the cable chain I was not ready to jump in and build my machine. By the time I got to that stage, the price went up by 3.

Hell, doesn't that burn your a*se, that's just plain profiteering and they will probably blame it on the oil price or the Rand - Euro exchange, not that either one of those rose by 300% :mad::mad::mad: At least you have come right with a work around. The steel price is just as aggravating, my actual cost has doubled from my original quotes of one year ago and if I dont get the remaining steel before the end of the month it goes up by another 12%.

Anyway, on to happier thoughts, how was the fishing, any good bites?

[hennie]

Welkome back!
You must let mummy post on the forum.My Boss is to scared.

Ja, Alan I had the same thing with the steel.I would say if someone starts building they need to get the steel first and put it in storage.I had it within a month the price was nearly R 1000 more.

[Gerald D]

We have just come out of a boom economic period, where sales & turnover was high and companies made good profits. Now that sales have fallen off drastically, the accountants are trying to figure out how to make the same profits off the smaller volumes, or lose their jobs . . . . . and everyone's prices go crazy. :mad:

[Kobus_Joubert]

I am so glad BBB is finished...sort off...price of steel , exchange rate etc forgotten for a while. This weekend I had to put a new door between the flatlet and the house. Thought it would be great to see BBB do something bigger. This floral design and edge took less than 5 minutes to cut. Did pick up that my table is not 100% flat anymore...I moved it a few times to do some work on it after flattening the bed and I know that the floor is not 100% level.

The other pictures are for Alan to show my improvised cable chain setup.

Gerald, I find he settings for X and Y (9000) a bit high. Going down to 5000 it gave me better results...this I see when engraving text. At 9000 the ARIEL looks completely different. At 5000 it is nice and square.

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[normand blais]

Nice machine Mr Joubert
I wanted to show my improvised cable setup . I put all the cable inside a vaccum hose and the extention for the power to the router is tied on the side. The hose fit nicely in a 2X3 metal stud actually the tract used for drywall .It will protect the cables from rubbing on metal .I did the same for the dust collecting system. This was to be temporary but never got around to change it for the last 4 years
Normand

[Kobus_Joubert]

That is also a great idea..when I install my dust system I might just get a meter or so extra for this.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Anybody out there with some GLASS KILN building experience ? Since this forum is so full of people with wonderful ideas and help to each other, I thought I can only ask.:o

[Greg J]

Was also told/instructed by the BOSS today to get on and build her Glass Fusing and Slumping Kiln now that I have my TOY.

Kobus,

My wife wants to make "stuff" / "slumping", along with some stain glass art.

Are you building a kiln from the ground up?? If you are, I might be building one also. Not too sure I want to be building something that reaches temperature around 1200 to 2,000 deg. F. :eek:

Have your "Boss" send my "Boss" a pm. :)

[normand blais]

Some wooden belt buckles I made for a young artist . She does beatifull glass work . She will pick up some more today or so ,if you have some questions I could ask her. http://noujica.blogspot.com/ her web site .

[Kobus_Joubert]

Hi Greg, the idea is to build one from scratch. I have the RAMP controller already and have some info, but still looking for more information on design and building of a kiln that will do the job.

Thanks for the photo Normand, but I am more interested in the design and building of the Kiln itself. My wife does the glass work, but always relied on the studio's for the fusing and slumping part.

[Lex]

Kobus,
Did you use the original motor laser profile mounting plates as shown on Gerald's drawings for the Motion kings, or did you profile cut new plates?

[Kobus_Joubert]

Both are on the drawings. Geared and straight. I first had the geared motor plates cut, then later the standard ones.

[Gerald D]

Lex, you need 3 off M5 10 312 and 1 off M5 10 322 for the MotionKings

[kaartman]

Hi kobus
stuur vir my jou e-pos adres asseblief, myne is kaartman@eim.ae or please send me your email address, regards

[Kobus_Joubert]

Done

[hennie]

Did you come right with the pipes for the extraction?

Prices that I got from supplier in George was.

85 mm od R 93 excl.
110mm od R 102 excl.
125 mm od R 110 excl.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Those JOKERS took my name and number and promised to phone back.....they have to phone their suppliers he said.... still waiting.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Ok Ok I know it is not the right stuff, but for now the price was right and it works ok for me.

After a lot of promises and inflated prices for dust pipes I got hold of this Alu. type AIR DUCT pipe...10 meters for R 57.00 + Vat. Went to Hardware Centre and got a Alu. Blast Gate..stripped this thing in 2 and fitted the one half to my dust foot. What a pleasure to be able to sit and watch BBB do it's thing without a dust mask.

The round THING my wife got hold of and painted it. These are little thing that I play with to get to grips with design / cutter setup. Quickly learned that a simple circle design with only single lines can produce different patterns when you use different cutters and different depth setting.

1805

1806

1807

[Alan_c]

Nice going Kobus, not sure what kind of life you will get out of that pipe, the wall is very thin and the dust is quite abrasive. Have you tried Austro, they have a big range in stock, the price is not cheap (Swiss manufacture) but I can assure you the quality is very good. I tried various "cheap" options in the factory, but I spent my time replacing lengths regularly, the Swiss one outlasts the others by up to 6 times longer (should last you until second retirement...:D)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Alan, As this is not a production machine I hope that this stuff will last a while until I make some money and buy the proper pipe....but for this price, I can replace a few of these lengths.

[Gerald D]

Kobus, we ran 110mm "rigid" sewerage pipe until above the center of the table, and then dropped only about 3m of the flexible expensive stuff down. We get blockages when there are thin long offcuts mixed with star-shaped scrap. Flipping the fan over reduced the kinks for blockages.

http://www.mechmate.com/Forum/messages/2/831.jpg

[Kobus_Joubert]

I had a plan like this as well, but what fitting did you use to join the 110mm rigid PVC pipe to the 100 mm flex. pipe or is your flex pipe also 110 mm?
I don't have enough room between BBB and my roof, and made an arm that swing from left to right following the gantry as it travels up and down the X - axis..still need to put some curtain rail on this swing arm to take up the slack when I get closer to the wall with the Z-Car.

[Gerald D]

The 100mm flex pipe fits inside the 110mm socket, with some filler/sealer goo, and the two wires you see to take the strain off the joint.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Just BECAUSE I CAN.......

1809

[hennie]

Vryf dit in ! ( rub it in ).
Seems like this is a challenge?:)

[Jason Marsha]

Kobus,
There is a free program on cnczone called spiro that will allow you to create swirls and more complex designs similar to your picture if you are interested.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Jason, will go and have a look.

[Kobus_Joubert]

After playing around cutting small and sometimes bigger things with Cut2D and Mach3 I decided it's now time to do something I wanted to do for a very very long time....Making a wall clock with wooden gears. Bought a 2 meter x 220mm piece of Beech and cried when I had to pay for it....this is after I realized I had to plane it from 25mm to 10mm for the gear thickness...Lost more than half my wood just because the guys don't stock this type of wood in anything thinner.

After playing with TABS on the outer gear points, I decided against it. Even after carefull sanding I did not get my gear 100%. I then decide to use some of my left over double sided tape from the racks and stuck the wood to the table. This worked great apart from one small gear that came loose right at the end....But I have a fix for that tonight. I will stick it onto the table with tape, then do the centre hole and put a screw through the hole into the table, then cut the outside. Reminder to myself......DON't cut 4mm deep / pass with a 3.2mm straight bit.....small mistake on my part while setting up cut in Cut2D....It took the abuse for a while and then...SNAP.....no more cutting noise, only router noise....on that I NEED a Spindle...neigbour can's sleep with the noise I am making.

The rest of the clock body and parts will be made from KIAAT which I have about 2 cubs of.

1859

[Gerald D]

Hey Kobus, hasn't anybody told you yet . . . . you are not supposed to cut such small precise things with:

- rack & pinion......you must use ball-screws
- direct-drive motors......you must use gearboxes or belts
- cheap MotionKing motors.....you must use Japanese motors
- steel gantries and cars.....you must use 20/20 alu
- v-rollers on angle iron.....you must use linear bearings
- out in Africa.....you must use a machete and Leatherman knife!!!:D:D

Thanks for helping to kill the stereotypes!

[Gerald D]

kiaat (http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=IRFA,IRFA:2006-24,IRFA:en&q=kiaat&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi)

[Alan_c]

Thats going to look great once it's up on the wall, are you going to be taking orders? ;)

Don't you have bandsaw (or a good friend with one) then you could have rewsawn the beech into two pieces (another posibility is to buy 38's and rip those down if you wont get the required thickness from the 25's).

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks Guy's, I listened to my grandfather...he always said...'n boer maak 'n plan... a farmer makes a plan... I believe in this million doller design that did not cost me a million dollars to build to do what I want it to do. Most of my ideas at present will be small things, but the day I want to cut a complete sheet I am able to do it on old BBB.

Alan, the next thing I must get is that bandsaw...thinking of the one that can tilt the head vertical and horizontal...cutting steel and wood.

One further thing about double sided tape....I did notice that the 3.2mm bit got clogged up as it cut into this tape. Do you know where in Johannesburg I can buy this ultra thin white double sided tape? The one I am using is the black Automotive type...also thin...nish, but it does get caught in the bit.

[Gerald D]

Call 3M South Africa (http://www.mbendi.co.za/orgs/cpha.htm) to find out who stock their products.

[kaartman]

Kobus
I am "gobsmacked" or "utterly astonished" very nice man!

[Kobus_Joubert]

Picking up the tape this afternoon. 1 Roll is about 50 meters...called VHB Tape 9473 (http://www.vikingtapes.co.uk/3m/pdf/9473pc.pdf) from 3M distributor in Benoni called NUTAPE.

[Lex]

Where have you bought those gears?:D:D
Unbelievable what the machine can do.

[Kobus_Joubert]

In the FAR EAST.....East of JoBurg...Brakkies se Pan :p

[Kobus_Joubert]

Anybody know where I can buy (in SA) some rod and tubing that fit into each other. The clock plans show 6mm rod and some places it runs in a 10mm O/D tube.

What I could find so far is 6.36 mm Alu. rod but the tube available off shelf is 12.7mm O/D with a wall of 3.18...this only gives me I/D of 6.34 mm.....whish I had a lathe.....:mad:.....Alan, that will be my next tool I buy...first the Bandsaw, then the Lathe

[Lex]

Hydraulic tubing O.D. 8 x 1 wall or O.D. 10 x 1,5 wall

[Gerald D]

. . . from 3M distributor in Benoni . . . .

Benoni's only claim to fame is the fact that Charlize Theron grew up there.

[kaartman]

I was also born there, that is why I was named " Koning"
Regards

[William McGuire]

"whish I had a lathe...."

You could just fit another (really small) motor on the end of the MechMate... turn all the stock you want.

As good as those gears look, I imagine the precision would be pretty good.:D

Nice work, Kobus...

[hennie]

Ek is sommer trots op jou ( I am proud of you ).What did you pay for the tape.Send me your postal address I use sellotape same thing probably cheaper I will send you some rolls.One thing don`t try it on 3mm mdf it sticks to well will breaks parts. easyest thing to make a jig with when you use a hand router. There is a company in Boysens If my memory stuffs me around i think they are called metel land or metal world.I also use this tape to make shaker doors with some q/set wood glue works great.

[Doug_Ford]

Outstanding work Kobus!! I've been interested in clockmaking also. Good luck with it.

[Kobus_Joubert]

This weekend no action on the BIG BLUE FRONT. With summer just around the corner it was time to get the roof on the last part of the house. We have rain in the summer and this season I would like to sit on my STOEP and to BRAAI (BBQ) anytime I wish. With my eldest son studying in Pretoria (Millwright apprentiship) he was not available to help, and therefore I had to get up the ladder, down the ladder, up the ladder, down the ladder......toooooo many times. Today I can feel it, putting trusses together 2 meters high and then picking them up one by one was quit a job. Coming week I will finish the rest of the structure so as to be ready next weekend to put the tiles on.....hopefully my son will visit.

1879

1880

And I need to work on my clock.....why is a day so short

[Gerald D]

I am also on the roof today...waterproofing the parapets.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Luckily it seems we have no fear of heights... Good luck with the job. In the Cape I suppose you need to keep the rain and wind out of the house.

[hennie]

I would have built the braai first!:)Thanks got it today.

[Doug_Ford]

Does everyone in SA have a beard and a pool?:D

[Kobus_Joubert]

We need a pool to cool down, because a beard can generate some heat :rolleyes:

[Kobus_Joubert]

Just to show that I have not left this world for another....poor old BBB is sitting in the workshop getting NO attention, but first things first and the BOSS told me to finish the roof first. This was one heck of a job doing it by yourself, but when it came to hoisting more than 300 rooftiles the BOSS jumped in and helped me.

Still need to close the front part of the trusses and then do nice cutouts on BBB for the ballustrades that will follow around the end of the stoep.

2011

By the way...Happy Birthday uncle Gerald,...see you closed that thread wile I was offline doing other stuff. In about 3 years I will catch up on you...just stand still for a while...:eek:

[Kobus_Joubert]

Today was hopefully the last of the BIG jobs around the house.....famous last words... We finished the roof on the front stoep/veranda. Finishing of the back roof will be done next weekend.

Late this afternoon I tried my hand at some INLAY work.

BBB table is also usefull for general woodworking. Here Pierre is sanding pieces from an old Oak cupboard that I restored.

2058

2059

[Gerald D]

Pierre, daardie is 'n pragtige foto! Kan jy in die skoolvakansie hier in Kaapstad kom werk vir 'n bietjie sakgeld? :)

[Greg J]

Today was hopefully the last of the BIG jobs around the house.....famous last words...

I've lived in a 100 year old house and my current house is new. The "house" work never stops. Maybe it's me. :)

Hey Kobus,

What's your "technique" for doing inlays?

Greg

[Kobus_Joubert]

Gerald. You know Pierre is only seven years old, so I will have to come with him.

Greg with cut2D inlay is very easy. I select the flower then tell the program to cut on the Outside of the line on my light wood. Then Pocket the same flower outline. If your feed speed is slow, the first piece should fit inside the second piece. If not you do a second cut selecting the Inside line. I did this with a 2.80 mm straight bit.

[Greg J]

Thanks Kobus,

Just wondering. The interface edges looked quite good. I thought you might be using a 60 degree V bit and finishing up with surfacing using an end mill bit.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Hi Greg, I would like to hear how you do it. I just had this idea to try inlay and went as I thought how it should work.

The light colored beech piece was a little higher than the pocket where it sits in , so I ran the piece on the belt sander...this gave me some fine dust between the 2 pieces...then a drop of SUPERGLUE and straight back on the beltsander...viola..no gap..But I must say the gap was very small to start. Surfacing it with an end mill will not greate that BONDING dust I believe.

[Greg J]

Kobus,

I saw this technique on the Vectric forum.

Pocket the base material with a 60 degree V-bit. Cut out the inlay material also using the 60 degree V-bit. V-carve Pro makes it easy to cut inside/outside edge.

If you use a thick inlay material, it will sit "proud" (higher than the base material). The last step is to make the base and inlay flush using an end mill and surface the part. End results are perfect.

[Gerald D]

http://vectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=564

[Kobus_Joubert]

Thanks, will try this 'V-method' as well.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Visited the SIGN AFRICA exhibition yesterday. I did notice a lot more CNC type routers arriving into South Africa. Previously this place was full of vinyl cutters and lots of large format digital printers, but now Laser and Router CNC machines are seen more frequently. The following systems were there, Zund D3, Aristomat GL, Neo-CNC, Vision, VicCam CNC, and some others.

I also came across XANITA's X-Board. It's a natural fibre composite board....has anybody used this stuff before. Have a look at www.xanita.com

In the end after talking to the CNC suppliers and they mention PRICE of a cnc router I am glad I have a MM at the fraction of these costs....and my software is sort of Universal.....and the MM looks, feel and is definitly Stronger than most of the systems on display. Thanks again Gerald and MM friends

[Gerald D]

Have seen the xanita type stuff at some shows, but could never find a name of a stockist.

[Gerald D]

Thanks Kobus - that link gave me:

Xanita Cape Town Office:

AECI Site, De Beers Ave.
Somerset West, 7130
Cape Town
South Africa

P.O. Box 407
Somerset West 7129
Cape Town
South Africa

Tel: + 27 (0)21 852 0606
Fax: + 27 (0)21 852 0615
Email: info@xanita.com

A bit of trivia: That is the site of what used to be the world's biggest dynamite factory. I grow up at the adjoining village of Strand and knew lots of people who worked in that factory some 30-40 years ago. A very interesting old steam (non-spark) driven factory. Eg. the transport mules had brass shoes, the steam locomotives had no fires.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Falcon is the stockist. CPT 021 511-7672 or 0861325266

[Gerald D]

South Africa

For several decades from the 1940s, the biggest producer of dynamite in the world was the Republic of South Africa (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Republic-of-South-Africa), where De Beers (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/De-Beers) established a factory in 1902 (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/1902) at Somerset West (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Somerset-West). The explosives factory was later operated by AECI (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/AECI) (African Explosives and Chemical Industries). The demand for the product came mainly from the country's vast gold mines, centered on the Witwatersrand (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Witwatersrand). The factory at Somerset West was in operation in 1903 and by 1907 was already producing 340,000 cases (22 kilograms (50 lb) each) annually. In addition, a rival factory at Modderfontein was producing another 200,000 cases per year.

One of the drawbacks of dynamite was that it was dangerous to manufacture. There were two massive explosions at the Somerset West plant in the 1960s. Some workers died, but loss of life was limited by the modular design of the factory and earth works and plantations of trees that directed the blasts upwards. After 1985, production of dynamite at the factory was phased out.

[Gerald D]

Thanks Kobus, we are cross-posting :)