How are you earning an income with your MechMate?

[funkalicious]

All the talk here is about building a machine. I am amazed by the skill and generosity of the forum members.
But my question, I am intrigued with owning building and the possibility of building a business around this machine.

So My question to the group, what are you making, how has the Mechmate/ Cnc Routing affected your business. Is anyone else interested in writing a business plan, based on this machine/ technology, that would enable a builder to quickly pay for their investment?

Thanks, Andy

[Richards]

The price of the Mechmate is insignificant compared to other costs in running a business. If you are familiar with break-even analysis and spreadsheets, you can quickly see for yourself that the cost of a machine which has a total cost of about $7,500 (depending on what you use and how you build it) is the very least of the costs of running a CNC related business.

If you haven't run a break-even analysis on your (proposed) business, send me an e-mail, and I'll send you a sample OpenOfficeCalc spreadsheet that you can use as a template for your own business. The figures in the sample sheet are mostly ficticious, but they are related to actual costs that you might expect if you live in my part of the United States. (If you don't have OpenOffice software, just do a Google search for OpenOffice and then download the software.)

I typically run a break-even analysis every time that I get a "great" idea. It helps me to realize how hard it is to make a few dollars.

[hennie]

If You Run A Business Where You Manufacture A Lot Of Components
And It Revolves Around Using Manual Labour You Will Save A Lot Of $$$ As The Machine Is Doing The Work For You Faster With Minimal Rejects And With Less Manual Labour. Will Probably Have A Saving Of Wages For 5 Peaple Depending On Your Trade.( Machines Don`t Get Sick Or Have Hangovers On Monday`s And Stop Work Early On A Friday )

[ekdenton]

I haven't finished mine yet so I can't say what works after it is actually producing a final product but one way to make money initially is this:

Start a business, if you haven't already. One of the good things about owning a business(either sole proprietorship or corporation) is that you can write the cost of the MechMate if you decide to build one, off your income taxes.

Even any wood that gets ruined for whatever reason, save the reciept and throw the ruined piece of wood into the woodstove and write it off your taxes also.

[smreish]

Woodstove?
How about air conditioning help? I haven't seen a heater/stove in years :)

[Gerald D]

My ShopBot/MechMate/CNCrouter foray started as a potential business for son Sean as he was finishing school. Didn't do a business plan, but had a vision of offering a CNC board cutting service in the same way that I was having steel sheets cuts by a laser-cutting service center. The first 3 - 4 years were not really profitable, for many reasons, one of the biggest was that the market was sceptical as to how it could benefit them. (Now that most designers are working in CAD, the market can see that CNC cutting is the natural progression from CAD).

The strategy now is simple: "Don't compete with your clients". Sean's strength is his CNC cutting machines - he does not sand, paint, assemble, finish. His clients are strong on sanding/painting/assembling. Clients want to be able to e-mail their designs out to someone else, and go and collect the cut parts the next day. Sean's business (www.camcraftsa.com (http://www.camcraftsa.com)) is doing very well now, 7 years down the line. Not an overnight success story, but that is not what matters to us - it was a business built from scratch and Sean's immersion into the adult business world.

Where does this story take us......
Well, I don't think a MechMate by itself is an automatic key to unlock riches. It doesn't replace marketing and building up a customer base. You still have to allow time for doing the books, paying the wages, ordering materials, checking on quality and the dozen other things involved in running a business.

[Richards]

Several of you have asked for a copy of the break-even analysis spreadsheet. I'm attaching a zipped file to this post. Assuming that you're familiar with simple spreadsheets, just take a look at the various data cells and you should be able to see how it works. If you have questions, send me an email (miker@xmission.com) and I'll try to help.

[digger]

Several of you have asked for a copy of the break-even analysis spreadsheet. I'm attaching a zipped file to this post. Assuming that you're familiar with simple spreadsheets, just take a look at the various data cells and you should be able to see how it works. If you have questions, send me an email (miker@xmission.com) and I'll try to help.

Mike,

Thanks a lot for offering this file.

Milosh

[myozman]

I know everyone is in a different area, but what kinda labor rates are you charging for work done on your machine? Do you have a standard base rate, for the machine and the computer time? I have not talked to another wood shop with cnc machines. Just trying to get a feel on where to start. I did talk to a couple of local sign businesses that would be interested if they had something to show there customers.

MIKE

[smreish]

Orlando...going rates from the "other CNC" vendors.
if client supplies material.
$110 to $145 per machine run hour, including set up time and material handling.
45/hr for computer CAM/CAD time'
2 to 4 dollars per cut sheet charge for tooling. THIS greatly depends on size and linear inch of cut of parts on sheet.


Of course, there is always...."yeah, I can do that for you....20 bucks" customer too.

3D sculpting is a negotiated rate.

[Hugo Carradini]

Hello guys.
I know you all like photos so there goes my first commercial work i made for an small airline called RUTACA. They ask me to cut their logo for installing in some doors and office entries. The owner was very pleased with the finish of the cut.:) I just got the skeleton of the work.:eek: I will post the letters soon when they paint them and installed:o

[Gerald D]

Often the scrap pieces are the most interesting! :)

We have people buying the scrap panels, screwing them together with hinges and making room divider/screens from them.

[Hugo Carradini]

Yes, I was thinking that some times, even the sacrifice board could be turn in an interesting and artistic panel . It is just a mater or imagination.

[Jason Marsha]

Its good to see that the money is rolling in Hugo. Not sure if signs are as expensive in Venezuela as they are here in Barbados but with some more jobs like this one and your baby should have paid for itself.

Jason

[Gerald D]

If you have those jobs for 40 hours per week, you could pay your MechMate build costs in under a month.....no? :)

[Hugo Carradini]

Hello Jason. Nice to hear you. A lot of time has happened since your good advice about the bits I should start with.:) It is just like in that marvelous Island where you live. Publicity people pays ten times better then carpenters shop down here .
Gerald you are right, this machine can pay it self in very short time.:):) I am very interested in organize an efficient cutting and engraving service.
You gave me the opportunity to build in five month the type of machine that I spend five years before trying to build. Again my deep respect for you.

[Gerald D]

Publicity people pays ten times better then carpenters shop down here .

I think that is true everywhere. The other people that pay well are décor designers for franchised stores or restaurants (mass-produced "unique" counters, fittings, etc) and the movie set builders with too much money and too little time.

[smreish]

....hey! I'm a movie set builder! :eek: "with too little money budgeted with even shorter time frame" Thank goodness I have a MM to take up the slack in the shop:D Funny, I had to run back to the shop to draft, laminate and Mill out 4 custom surrounds on saturday night at 3am. 1 person - 3 hours (10 minutes of that was CNC time) If done the old way it would have been an 8 hr shift. I wish my employees were as reliable as "big blue".

[lunaj76]

Hi,

This question is purposed to those of you building a business around your Mechmate. I am thinking about starting a business like Camcraft here in Colorado. Can some of you with exsperience in this area please, give me some direction as to where to start looking at the fundamentals that are involved in running a business of this type. Example: business models, and expected profit and loss. I have no idea what a cnc routing services business looks like on paper.

Thanks,

Justin

[smreish]

Justin,
My advice is not advice, but suggestions.
Go to the local Barnes and Noble, Borders or bookstore....buy a book or two on starting your own business and what's required to run a business.
Market your idea locally to see if you can build a sustainable income around your "service". Run the financial prospectus with a very reputable and trustworthy Tax, CPA or experienced business owner to see if your able to become profitable after Overhead, rent, payroll, taxes, hidden costs, etc. IF all those look good based on your startup cost's of building a TOOL like the Mechmate - then move forward.

The CNC business is a lot like a Metal Machine shop, just out of wood.

Good luck....

[krabenaldt]

If you are going to build a Mechmate, do your numbers by the cost of setting up a Mechmate without spindle, without dust collection, simple holddown schemes,etc. If you can afford to do the setup without jobs, then proceed on a part time basis. You will need to learn the machine and software, so you have a considerable amount of time involved in building the machine and learning it. I would not recommend that you invest all of your time and money on a full time basis before any income. Keep you day job.

If you decide later that a cnc business is not for you, I bet you can recover most if not all of your costs of the Mechmate setup, less you time investment.

The applications of cnc routing can be very open so you may not know all of the possibilities until you get into it.

Kevin

[lunaj76]

Thanks Guys,
I am building a Mechmate right now and have a small garage shop. What I mostly do now is trim work and making custom cabinets. I have experience with Autocad 2000 but no exsperience with cnc or cam. I am writing a business plan that involves just cnc routing. I like the comparison between a metal cutting business but for wood. There are shops here that just make cabinets and there are shops that just do signs. I guess I have to find out if a business that just does cnc routing is going to be viable for my demographic. Well, off to the book store and library.

[Gerald D]

When our son was trying to figure on a career after school, I suggested he start a CNC service center, for boards, similar to the CNC laser services that I was familiar with, for steel. I think the key ingredient in his success is to focus exclusively on his core strength - 2D CNC cutting of boards. Which means absolutely NO sanding, finishing, assembly, installation of anything! You cannot market your CNC cutting service to a cabinetmaker if you yourself are also making cabinets - then you are seen as a potential competitor and not as a supplier. He has the CNC machinery which his clients do not have. There are hundreds of cabinetmakers, toymakers, guitarmakers, signmakers, décorbuilders, etc. each cutting each other's throat because they all sand, finish, install.

It doesn't happen overnight. Our son's first 5 year's were not easy. That was spent building up a client base and reputation from scratch. You have to know how to keep your customers happy and your personality, ambition dedication and 70 hours /week is what is going to pull you through.

[louisseville]

I think that the business side of wood cnc is just like any other sprecialty and only when people know you are out there can they use you. I once cut 100 radiused window boxes for the second story of a building. The boxes allowed the builder consistency and a fixed cost- something he was not going to get with a carpenter and a jig saw.

It would be to your advantage if your business model from the onset included these areas- complete documentation of the work, an evolving protfolio, and on the money side 50% up front, and 50% upon completion- no exceptions. As your volume grows and the same customers repeatedly come back- set them up for terms with a signed contract and outline your terms. (Expose yourself and investment slowly).

[Gerald D]

Identify a couple of big clients that you would like to have, find out what they are making with bandsaws, jigsaws, handheld routers and templates. Make samples for them.

If your potential clients are only using a table saw and a thicknesser/planer, then you are not going to get them excited about using you as a CNC supplier.

[lunaj76]

Thanks, for the feed back.

[javeria]

Hi folks,

Today I did this V carve on a bit of ply wood -the ply is 17 inch in dia and took 30 min to carve and 15 min to program.

How should I charge for this?

Btw this was done on another machine and not on a Mechmate.

RGDS
IRfan

[Gerald D]

In the region of US$20, based only on cutting time, without programming nor material supply. Programming is free most of the time.

[javeria]

Thankyou G'.

[felix]

The next few posts copied from other threads . . .

Hi all,

first many thanks to Gerald and others builders here for the excellent work that as been done here. (I'm addicted)

I'm kind of a Jack of all trade and master of none. Recently, I've started making furniture inspired by regional antiques for others (ie. not reproduction per say) in a very small shop outside the house. To small for a MM, at least for now and though I have access to our basement, I don't think it would be a good idea to build it there because I would have to break it appart to get it out eventually.

I understand the MM is a production grade machine and from what I've gathered so far, those who have build one are earning a living with it or at least it as paid for itself. I'd be happy with the later especially because I'd rather be doing creative work then production work by a very long shot.

So my question or dilema if you prefer would be: have you builder guys build your MM to increase production (and profit I assume) or was it an investment on a starting business as in build the machine first and find work for it after?

Thanks,
Yves

[Doug_Ford]

I built it because I was interested in CNC and I'm interested in industrial machinery.

[smreish]

Yves.
All the above.
- increase precision of fabrication
- increase in quality
- reduction of labor hours / per unit burdened
- improve profit by all the above

Sean

The ROI (return on investment on my 1st MM was 4.9 months)

[Gerald D]

Felix, my guess is that half the MM's are built for fun and run at a financial loss. The majority of the profitable production machines would be with people that had a strong CAD element in their businesses before they started. The point is that the MM is only an accessory in a computerised design environment.

Therefore, the financial success of CNC depends on your CAD literacy. However, a lot of guys have defined their success as becoming CAD literate by using CNC in the business.

[hennie]

Felix, my machine was built to : save wastage ,increase productivaty,give me that one step above the competition and the knowledge of and satisfaction of building it myself and like Sean said it is paid for.If you use it for earning an income you can rely on getting a return on your investment.

[KenC]

This post was in a new thread, have merged it with the above posts from existing thread . . . .

Hi,
I understand about half of the MM builder do generate an income using the MM. How nice...:cool:

I happened to be the othe half who build it to generate a loss...

Surely, it would be great for the MM to pay for herself.

Would it be too much to ask for the smarter members to enlighten me and the others who are business-wize challenged?

Thousand Thanks in advance.

Cheers

[Gerald D]

Ken, I moved your post into an existing thread. It will be good to breathe some life into this important thread again. Thanks.

[Robert M]

Salut Felix ( Yves)?,
Je suis ébéniste de profession et devrais commencé bientôt la fabrication de mon MechMate. Je pratiquement tout les composante en main. à l'exceptions de quelques mineurs.
Pour moi, c'est un peux des deux.
A - Rentabilité et commercialisation d'un autre créneau / marché que le meuble sélectif.
B- Plaisir et rentabilité de le faire soit même.

Si tu compte te partir en affaire avec ce type de machine, bien-OK et même avantagé . Toutefois Soit bien conscient qu'il y faut un bon temps d'accoutumance au logiciel de dessin CAD, logiciel CAM et le logiciel du contrôleur MACH-3 mais surtout du temps pour s'accoutumer au fonctionnement des ces dernier tous en harmonie et de plus le fonctionnement de la machine par elle même !
DONC, mon avis est de prévoir un minimum d'un ans d'accoutumance à tout cela avant de te lancé en affaire avec un tel investissement d'argent et temps, car temps tu en auras grand besoins pour faire ton 1er MechMate et temps pour la faire fonctionné rentablement !!

Bonne chance, Amicalement Robert ;)

[felix]

. . . . . . . .

I'm don't have a business per say, I was just building furniture for our house (amoung a zillion other stuff) and someone ask if I could make some for them and I said yes. I basically build those the old way, especially the joinery and the finishing, all by hand. But as you probably know, this kind of work isn't very lucrative, a few buck an hour but I just love doing this.

As I was thinkering on ways to improve my hourly earning a bit, I was considering various jig systems and I came across a machine called the Woodrat. From there and a few hours brainstorming I started thinking of a CNC router especially since I do all my design on a Cad program to begin with. Obviously an MM is an overkill for the kind of work I intend to use it for so I begun to think of things I could do with it to justify such an investment.

My main concern is finding just enough work for it that it would pay for itself in a reasonable amount of time say a year or two and afterward I'd be happy earning only a few k's a year. which would allow me to do the work (furniture stuff) I find pleasure in doing. All this is nice and probably feasable but there are so many things one can do with a CNC that I don't have a clue what to do and where to start. Basically I'm looking for suggestions, ideas and or stories about what you guys use it for.

. . . . . .

[KenC]

Cut from another post:

. . . . . .

10) start a sign-making business.


. . . . . .

[felix]

Robert,

pour moi, fabriquer et operer la machine ne sera pas un problème. Mon premier ordi était un Apple IIe et la première chose que j'ai fait avec c'est de la programmation en assembleur. Depuis ce temps, j'ai appris à faire plein de chose avec un ordi y compris du Cad avec Autocad. Bien sûr, je ne suis pas un spécialiste de Cad/Cam/CNC pour l"instant mais j'ai aucun doute que je le deviendrai très bientôt.

Mon problème principal est que je ne veux pas vraiment partir en affaire, je veux juste assez de travail avec la MM pour justifier et payer son coût. En fait, faire de la production n'a aucun intérêt pour moi, je souhaiterais faire uniquement de la création sur une base artisanale. Une MM dans ce cadre de pensé serait un outil sophistiqué certe mais elle serait utilisée pour faire des objets uniques et non de la production. Je suis prêt à faire un compromis pour quelques temps afin que la machine ce paie tout seul mais après si elle ramasse de la poussière 11 3/4 mois sur 12 ça ne me dérange pas le moins du monde.

À toutes fins pratique je suis à la retraite et j'espère le rester, faire des meubles c'est un hobby voir même une passion, je veux juste bien m'équiper et pouvoir faire plein de choses espérons le plus original possible, c'est tout. Mais une telle machine est au-delà de mes moyens pour l'instant, alors il faut que je trouve un moyen pour qu'elle se paie tout seul et c'est là tout mon dilemme. J'ai pas vraiment d'idée de ce que je pourrais faire avec ou encore j'en ai trop, il y a trop de possibilité et je ne sais pas quoi faire!

Merci,
Yves

[isladelobos]

For an engineer, make this machine is a beautiful experience,
and do everything possible for the perfection,performance, usability, security.

This machine no reemplace my actual life form, but fills an important gap in his.
if I think make the machine for a business, then I need work for this true.

philosophy: I can buy My machine, but love it like?

[felix]

Ken,

do you have any suggestion where to look for somekind of definition of what's a sign business can look like.

Thanks,
Yves

[felix]

Gerald,

I'd like your opinion on this one, do you think an MM can do stuff like Aspire (http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/vgallery/aspire/aspire_gallery.htm) from Vetric seems to enable us to do or am I dreaming awake.

Just in case this helps, for me this kind of work implies (very) limited production and or single item kind of work.

Thanks,
Yves

[Gerald D]

Aspire is 100% suited to MechMate, and vice versa.

[servant74]

I saw the break even analysis, but one more item that should not be forgotten. Cash Flow analysis.

An old professor told me: all sins in business can be forgiven, except running out of cash.

Probably not true, but the point is well made. If you every run out of cash, even if you have 'receivables', you are out of business. The USA Small Business Administration says that the #1 reason for business failure is being under-capatilized. I have known businesses that had to much cash that 'burned through it' before they could start generating enough cash flow.

Receivables are OK, and cash is better, but if you have to many recievables, and not enough cash, sometimes you can 'factor' them or 'sell your recievables' (at a discount) to generate cash. Not the best way to go, but it works for some businesses (textile industry is famous for this).

Some ways I don't like, but works, to get 'a loan' is to borrow from your suppliers (but pay as agreed, good suppliers are great to have, so don't abuse them!).

Banks only seem to want to loan to companies and people that do not need money, so develop your relationship with a bank early on.

...

Now this is the pot calling the kettle black, I am just trying to figure out a reasonable business plan. But I know that a business comes first, CNC router just needs to support the business. Getting a CNC router (for a business) without knowing what you are planning on doing with it is a bad (business) plan. But a hobby doesn't need ROI. Satisfaction gives that.

....

ROI is another thing that needs to be remembered in the long run. Return on Investment. When I worked for an oil company, they would not even look into any project that didn't have a 18+% ROI at a minimum. Basically it is close to a 5 year full payback of all expenses (including cost of money borrowed). This includes all salaries (or draws if the owner).

....

Now I need to realize I, like many, are getting a CNC Router, than figuring out how to make money with it. It will probably not pay back like a business that focuses on the financials first. My hope is to turn it into $$, but I know that I am not doing it 'right'.

So any suggestions on how to make $$ with a router is appreciated! :)

[KenC]

Hi Yves,
I'm looking too:D...

On this, I think 1) accuracy is not that critical in sign making 2) MM eat complex figures for breakfast:D 3) surely customers will appriciate the speed. 4) should do away with after sales services.

Another idea, glass/stone etching? But I don't know how that is done.

From where I'm from, one may think how tech business can one expect in a 3rd world country, but there are actually plenty... eg, I just located a material stockist providing laser & plasma cutting service nearby... and found out a stone throw away, there is a 3 warehouses full of CNC machines for punching, milling, lathe, cutting... the full out-fit doing OEM parts fabrication/machining.

How can we find a niche to survive with these giants around???

My 2 cents

[hennie]

Ken,if you can`t beat them join them, get clients to know your set-up a one man set up gives a better service at the end of the day.

[Gerald D]

Signmaking is not a great idea for turning a MM into profit. There is heck of a lot of non-MM work that goes into designing, cutting, painting, finishing, installing signs and you are competing against graphic artists with vinyl-cutting equipment. But, it is a way of getting in some business and it is better than nothing. Our son started out doing signs for stable doors with the horse's names on them - spent too much time laying out, sanding, varnishing, while the machine sat waiting for work.

[Gerald D]

Ken,if you can`t beat them join them, get clients to know your set-up a one man set up gives a better service at the end of the day.

Hennie is hitting the nail on the head!

A MM-based business is still about the service of the people, not the machine.

The only advantage of the MM in the business is that you built it cheaply yourself and that you can maintain it yourself.

Your customer is not bothered with the tools that you use - he pays for the service/product that he gets from you as a person.

[Jan de Ruyter]

You have to find a niche market. If you work in a commodity type environment, the price is determined in the market. Like cutting steel, he customer phones around, gets three quotes, takes the lowest.

What is important is the way you compete in the market. That could be price (bad one), product features (good one, especially with a MechMate), short lead time or high quality product.

The other one is the value proposition. Value is defined as Performance/Cost. Either increase the performance or reduce the cost.

But the big thing is keeping the cash flow running. Asking a 1/3 deposit to cover the material cost makes good sense and insisting settlement on delivery keeps the bank manager happy.

A book I can recommend to any business owner is The Goal by Goldratt. Makes good, uncommon sense.

[KenC]

Hennie is hitting the nail on the head!

A MM-based business is still about the service of the people, not the machine.

The only advantage of the MM in the business is that you built it cheaply yourself and that you can maintain it yourself.

Your customer is not bothered with the tools that you use - he pays for the service/product that he gets from you as a person.

Hennie, You are spot on...

Gerald, you just confirm my needs as well:mad:

Customer needs are
1) Best Price
2) Best Quality
3) Fastest Delivery

Eventhough we all know you can have it all. We want it all...

[KenC]

Gerald, Sean,
I love you business strategy.


Avoid confrontation with one's weakness and exploit one's strength to the limit.

Abstract
"故善用兵者，屈人之兵而非战也，拔人之城而非攻也，毁人之国而非久也，必以全争于天下，故兵不顿而利可全， 此谋攻之法也。
故用兵之法，十则围之，五则攻之，倍则分之，敌则能战之，少则能逃之，不若则能避之。故小敌之坚，大敌之擒 也。"

In 1910, Lionel Giles, translated :
"Therefore the skilful leader subdues the enemy's
troops without any fighting; he captures their cities without laying siege to them; he overthrows their kingdom without lengthy operations in the field.

With his forces intact he will dispute the mastery
of the Empire, and thus, without losing a man, his triumph will be complete. This is the method of attacking by stratagem.

It is the rule in war, if our forces are ten
to the enemy's one, to surround him; if five to one, to attack him; if twice as numerous, to divide our army into two.

If equally matched, we can offer battle;
if slightly inferior in numbers, we can avoid the enemy; if quite unequal in every way, we can flee from him.

Hence, though an obstinate fight may be made
by a small force, in the end it must be captured
by the larger force."

Very Oriental of you ;)

[felix]

Signmaking is not a great idea for turning a MM into profit. There is heck of a lot of non-MM work that goes into designing, cutting, painting, finishing, installing signs and you are competing against graphic artists with vinyl-cutting equipment. But, it is a way of getting in some business and it is better than nothing. Our son started out doing signs for stable doors with the horse's names on them - spent too much time laying out, sanding, varnishing, while the machine sat waiting for work.

Gerald,

if that is sign making, then I'm not realy interested, I'm already earning to little an hour with my furniture thing.

By the way, I should mention that my first rational to build a CNC was to have a very versatile tool that could be used instead of few others and in the process save some floor space. I saw in a thread here somewhere, that (I think it's you) someone even intended to setup one on a wall.

If I stick with this first idea then I wouldn't care so much about a second business idea but I would try to make it as small as possible but large enough to do what I want it to do with it and of course the lowest cost possible without going on the cheap.

1- Raise panels => grooving, carving, etc.
2- Lathe/Indexer stuff
3- I don't know the name of this kind of work in english but it involves cutting curve patterns on pieces that is usualy done on a band saw or equivalent plus a lot of sanding.
4- Surely I would do mortices and possibly tenon as well, especially if I put the MM over the pit. My shop was a pump house, the water basin is deeper then the shop is high.
5- Dovetails of various kinds
6- Moldings
7- Surely I'll come up with a lot of other uses for it.

I'd be curious to see and or ear if someone is using her/his MM to do this king of more "traditional" woodworking stuff with it.

Yves

[servant74]

Not to compare this to "The Art of War", but in finding a niche market, I have a friend that says

You can have it
Good (quality)
Fast (the faster you go, the more it costs)
Cheap (low cost provider)
Pick 2

Since as a small shop you cannot normally compete on 'cheap' versus the Wal-Mart or manufacturing giants, the 'Fast + Good' model seems to apply for most of us.

For me at least, design takes time. A CNC can give the 'fast' once we are used to using our tools, can be done. One industry that will pay for quality design and rapid delivery is the 'engineering prototype', where function and design are more important than cost. Getting 'in' with designers, architects, and engineering firms has served some well (Zomeworks in SanFrancisco is on I have heard that does well).

Furniture designers or stage set builders do one or a few of an item. Stage builders like to modify and DIY or at least finish it themselves.

Now what I would like to do is to have a 'product', cut and ship flatpack, that could be sold by others (or ebay and the like). Standardized 'flatpack' furniture like Ikea is a mostly 'taken' market in large areas. But if you develop a clientèle and retailers in your area it might be doable. You still need to 'develop' and do prototypes. Personally I want to stay away from 'finishing'. Just not my thing.

Like mentioned before, signs provide some a good living, but it is not a 'cut and forget', there is lots of individual design, service, installation, finishing, etc that goes on. Unless you are much more of a sales person than I (not hard to be that) this is not your niche. One friend paid for his CNC machine just cutting letters for another sign shop that was over loaded. Not everyone can be so fortunate.

Artists of various forms might be a source of revenue. But if they get to be of any renown, and regularly need your service, they will probably get their own CNC machine. Still, if they are going to produce lots of pieces, you might provide them their 'production' service.

Just a few thoughts.

[KenC]

Sounds like sign making require too much work outside MM. I'll keep my eye open for unfinished produce...

Come to think of all the above threads, If we want MM to pay for herself, we must think of something for her to do, not us!


Hmmm....

[servant74]

some thoughts for the 'occasional garage entrepreneur'...

For the 'occasional' CNC job, you might take a look at http://100kgarages.com/
and the http://www.ponoko.com/ sites.

As a Ponoko partnership with ShopBot (from what I can tell) are trying a 'new thing'. Add ShopBot owners (initially they say) to generate a network where 'makers' can have something routed. Basically new customers, for even 'non-businesses' or garage router owners.

For the garage type operation, making 'paying friends' at a local Makers group
like you can find at http://www.hackerspaces.org or even start one in your area.

Do nice 'FlatPacks' Ikea style and sell at flea market types of places? But it takes focusing on sales rather than 'making'.

Do something like http://www.shopbottools.com/project_wizard.htm - Especially with gcode and make designs parametric to make mostly custom items to sell direct or from a 'catalog'.
For some reason this never seemed to take off. I am guessing not enough want to 'share' to make it self fulfilling ongoing effort.

For me, and I assume others, it is not the making that is the problem, it is the marketing and doing the sales.

[Gerald D]

The recipe for quick profitability is simple: Find craftsmen/factories that are laboriously cutting out shapes from plywood or MDF with templates, bandsaws and jigsaw and then show them you can do that process for them at half the cost with twice the accuracy.

[servant74]

Finding them appears to be the standing issue. Suggestions?

[KenC]

The recipe for quick profitability is simple: Find craftsmen/factories that are laboriously cutting out shapes from plywood or MDF with templates, bandsaws and jigsaw and then show them you can do that process for them at half the cost with twice the accuracy.

This is what I'm going to find out.

Thanks Gerald.

[Gerald D]

Finding them appears to be the standing issue. Suggestions?

Suggest you get really friendly with the plywood and MDF suppliers and form a coalition with them. They will be able to sell better if their product can be used more efficiently.

At minimum, see if they will let you leave some business cards on their counter, or an ad on the wall. (Your business card holder should of course be CNC cut ;))

[Doug_Ford]

That's brilliant Gerald.

[KenC]

Gereld,
Will proceed exactly as you said..... Now, we are really getting some where!!1:):):)

Cheers

[funkalicious]

I attended the Maker Faire in San Mateo and met the folks from Ponoko.com
his business is concentrated maily in the jewelry business and he would like to make the leap to CNC machining of wood. Ikea has a presence in lage metro areas but not in smaller hamlets and villages across America.

They started by selling 32mm designed melamine over chipboard. Thermwood has tried building a collective that refers busines to business CNC.
But this approach has been limited in my view to selling consumables to shops. I have wondered about a collective of shops that would be available to cut cabinet and shelving etc.. that would be a Cell type company that would cut out shipping cost. Ponoko uses a platform that is designer driven a designer creates something that can be laser cut. and Ponoko is the store front.. if the design sells great if not it rots on the vine and loses shelf space.

Similarly a company could be formed by an association or cooperative of MM machines. With an invitation to design groups and an Etsy store front.
flat pack designs would be encouraged, the beauty of CNC is a prefinished
slab can be cut packed and shipped. This approach could be a low cost marketing that would pull product out of the shops.

Anyone think this would work?

[sailfl]

The ShopBot 1000 Garages is built on this idea. I don't know if they are having any success and currently the only people that can participate are ShopBot CNC machines. They won't talk to you unless you are a ShopBotter.

I like the concept but you have to have a product that is in demand and has a large appeal.

The LinkerLogs has also set a forum to supply them to people interested but I know they have not had any takers.

If you can find the right product or industry, it is some thing I would be interested in.

[Gerald D]

ShopBot is very much about "social engineering" rather than their machine itself. Forming groups and creating websites is their thing - it is supposed to be the hold hands and feel good experience. Kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya.

But somebody has to get dirty and do the darn work. I can't understand why so many people get these CNC machines because they want to break out of the corporate world, and then they set about seeking to build corporates again.

[smreish]

oh my....Amen Rev. Gerald. Amen

[servant74]

I agree with Gerald. For those from the 'corporate world' it seems to be the 'easy fit'. They buy it as a cnc appliance, use it like they want, they still have a 'help desk' to call, and the online 'water cooler' in their forums. Even 'conferences' for continuing training like the 'shopbot jamboree's, etc. ... It isn't quite like a tuperware party, but it does tend that way. ... Not a bad way to go, but obviously not for everyone. It is a more $$ way, imho.

I guess I can understand the small sign shop or hobbiest wanting the 'one source appliance' model with support available.

[mrghm]

since shopbot is now in bed with ecabnets from thermwood, they have got a full list of standard products to manufacter with zero design cost.