Frame Underway - Casablanca, Morocco

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi dear Mechmate Community.

I have started building the beast with a friend of mine some weeks ago. But we are very limited for the moment with time as we work on the construction on some weekends. We decided to share the our construction story with all of you ( Mechmate Community members) :D.

For now we have achieved just the following milestones :
-> Purchased the plans and digested them for weeks.
-> Read the forum daily for the sake of information.
-> Purchased equipment for cutting and drilling.
-> Purchased the majority of Metal (C channel beams UPN180 and son on)
-> Cutting the majority of the pieces for the base table.

I will post some pictures as soon as i modify them to suite the size that is acceptable for the forum.

Some of the difficulties that we are facing right now :

-> We are still searching for a local company here in Casablanca-Morocco for the laser cut parts.
-> We are looking for another bigger working space for rent.
-> We are still looking for foreign suppliers for the other components (Spindle, v-groove bearings, steppers, etc...)

Best regards to all of you.

[MetalHead]

Welcome aboard!

[wiifm]

Welcome aboard!

+1 Welcome!

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi

Here you go some pictures

Sincerely

[lonestaral]

Welcome.
Good to see someone else with a tiled floor.
Keep posting the photos.

[YANLM]

Welcome

[bachaabdelkabir]

Thanks to all of You

Best regards.

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi All

Here are some pictures showing the very slow advancement of our build.

We are closed to return it upside-down

Best regards

[bachaabdelkabir]

HI

I just wanted to share an update about the building. As I mentioned before we rarely manage to have free time to this projet.

The laser cut part have finally arrived after two weeks of waiting from a local company :D

I have also welded M12 Nuts to the foot closing plates of the base table (Part 10 10 334).

Best regards.

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi

Another update.

We finally managed to rent another more spacious workshop (About 50 sq meters ) with a reasonable renting price. The previous one was 15 sq m .

Ps: the floor will not be tiled ;).

Best regards.

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi all,

I wanted to share some updates:

- We are now at the stage of cutting the v-rails
- I will receive today two test parts of the v-groove wheels from two local fabrication companies. we must decide with of them will take the offer :
--> Company 1 : the quote is 5,5 $ per piece without bearings
--> Company 2 : the quote is 25 $ per piece with bearings inserted and ready to work with.

Any advise, please ?

[Robert M]

Welcome aboard Mate !!....Keep up, fun is on it's way ;0)!!
All the best, Robert

[bachaabdelkabir]

Thanks a lot Robert !

Here are the pictures of the v-wheel test parts :

I have chosen the quote 1 because the company N°2 didn't respect the design very well as you can see in the pictures (the ones with one bearing inserted). Even if the company has raised the price to 10$ per piece.

As for the cutting process of the rails, i am still struggling on that point. in fact, we don't have a good flat surface.

I am wondering if i can use the main longitudinal beam as a reference surface, but the cutting process will be vertical. (It seems to be a little bit complicated).

Best regards.

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi all

Here are some updates.

I had a very difficult time trying to find a good flat surface to use a reference for the cutting process. I tried first three UPN 80mm steel profiles as surface together but it wasn't satisfying. Finally, I used an 8mm glass surface from a broken table and it worked perfectly before it broke after cutting one X rail. now have to came up with another solution to complete this job.

[guille2]

good job!!! you could use this

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=28349&postcount=151

[MetalHead]

Looking great. Melamine white panels or MDF Plywood work good for doing rails.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Melamine-White-Panel-Common-3-4-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-Actual-750-in-x-49-in-x-97-in-461877/100070209

[bachaabdelkabir]

Thank you very much for the help Goya and Mike :)

Actually, I managed to use another piece of the broken glass surface and used it to continue the cut.

I finished the X rails and still have to do Y rails.

I have made a mistake by cutting X+600 for the X-rail's length while it should be X+960 as mentioned in the plans for the grinding process (see the picture above)

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16366&stc=1&d=1543129187

I think i should solder two additional 360mm pieces on both sides and grind them.

Best regards

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi all,

I wanted to share some advancement on the project :)

- We bought 9 meters of Racks
- Made the Excentric bushings from 12mm blots
- Finished the assembly of skate grinder
- Finished the grinding of the Y-rails (see pictures)
- Welded some extra pieces to the X-rails

But I noticed that the new welded pieces are 1 mm smaller than the long x-rail.
Do I need to regrind those rails horizontally to reduce the hight to be 27mm in order to allow the grinder skate to go smoothly?

Is it fine to reduce the height of the X-rail from 28 mm to 27mm? http://www.mechmate.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16372&stc=1&d=1545410038

[DocTanner]

Hi bachaabdelkabir,
It;s good to see someone building. The height will be fine. The springs that keep the stepper engaged will make up the difference. Best of luck to you.

Donald AKA
DocTanner

[bachaabdelkabir]

Thanks a lot Donald

[MarkRH]

Looks good, how hard was it to roll over? What do you guess it weighs? Im just getting to putting my table together and may have to leave legs off to have it clear ceiling height

[bachaabdelkabir]

HI Mark,

I had no experience in welding before starting this project and I managed to complete the table without difficulty (I have just watched some instructional youtube videos).

For the weight, I think that that the table has something like 300kg. The big longitudinal beams share a big amount of that weight.

Good luck with your build :)

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi all

Here are some updates about the build.


Unfortunately, we have the problem of a twisted gantry. As shown in the pictures above one of the four edges of the gantry is about 5mm far from the level where it should be. As we don't have in possession 4 large G clamps we have tried to put some weight in the higher edge but it didn't work.

Do we have to invest in those g-clamps (about 25 dollars each) or does anyone have an alternative idea?

Best regards.

[Robert M]

Putting some weigh will simply not do enough to these steel tube as u experience!!
The “simplest” way is as prescribe
It’s been figured out by to many over past 12 yrs+ as the lowest “best” cost way to do it)…..YES, it requires to invest in some good mechanical clamps, may not be “G-clamps” as per say, can be any good quality bar clamps, parallel clamps….any sort that will surely be of use later for your working needs…..but avoid these “quick” hand grip clamps as in your photo as they do not :
A – have a good long term holding ( will loosen in time under hard pressure )
B – can NEVER equal strength of a “mechanical” or say and tighten clamp like ( Bessy (https://www.besseytools.com/en/subcategory.php?ASIMOID_MC=000000000001f3f00003002 3&ASIMOID_SC=000000000001f21d00030023)or some like these (https://www.google.com/search?q=Jorgensen+bar+clamps&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjW-YjvwdzgAhXDyoMKHRTtB1gQ_AUIDygC&biw=1280&bih=616) ) or any equivalent.
You need some good force / strength through those “future” clamps, so, get good ones, they will be a VERY, VERY good investment now….and for much future working needs…..and yrs !!

Good luck @_#

PS.....also, they don't need to be new ;0)).....look up as the used market....all been equal, it's an economical solution !!

[bachaabdelkabir]

Thanks a lot Robert for the quick reply,


I thought that the clamps like BESSY are only good for woodworking not for metal now i will look for some good quality ones, i think they are available here the market place (comparing to G-clamps which are rare in big size ).

And btw, i was already aware of the weakness of the quick hand grip clamps that i have used, but i didn't have another available option, that's why i added some spins of steel wire (bearly noticeable in the picture).

Thanks again Robert

[Robert M]

Pleasur.....Mate, that why were her...:D :cool:
Best of luck..... d°_° b

[MarkRH]

There is a thread in the gantry section on straightening propeller twist, if I were you id cut thru those welds with a thin disc clamp it flat and follow the welding sequence to minimise distortion.

[MetalHead]

You only talking 3/16 of an inch, If you have a torch you can stress relieve the weld areas by heating them up to help remove the twist.

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi all,

Thanks a lot, Robert, Mark and Mike for the precious advise. And sorry for being late to respond.

I bought four good quality bar clumps and did the gantry twist correction as can be seen in the pictures above.

I have now completed the drilling, positioning and threading of the X rails. So I have a rolling gantry as can be seen in the video : https://youtu.be/TTtytvwVQEE

I had some difficulties trying to put the 6001 bearings inside the V-grooves without damaging the bearing. I don't know if it is noticeable in the video but the gantry doesn't roll smoothly because of this issue.

Best regards.

[Robert M]

Progress....Look good and I know you wont regret having those great pump clamps !

Now, as for "I had some difficulties trying to put the 6001 bearings inside the V-grooves without damaging the bearing"
I'd say, you do not wish to skip this part !
I know it may seems discouraging or wishing all will..."become" fine or, "it should be ok, it's not that bad !!"....you may think, but, bearing are either top notch or....say good buy !!
If in your hand there not very smooth, pull them out of this ( or those) V-groove and either readjust you machining of those wheels or the step on how to push them in, but again, end results "must" be top to put good function & reliability & longevity ( not to say other future wrong diagnostic if it's not working "as it should")!!.

All the best and keep progress.....cheers !@_@

[bachaabdelkabir]

Thank you again Robert

I will focus my effort to find a solution for this !

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi all,

Finally, I am back again to work in the machine, so I taught I would share some of the advancement.


--> I found a solution for the previous problem of the damaging that was happening to the V-groove wheels bearings. As it turned out that this was due to fabrication tolerance. In fact no matter how careful is the method of the insertion of the bearing, once it is inserted it stops turning smoothly. So i grinded the inside of the wheel a little bit with a Dremel tool using a sanding bit. Then I applied some Loctite glue and the problem was gone.


-> I redid one of the X rails as it was a little bit out of tolerance. For that, i bought a melamine white panel as Guille and Mike adviced in previous posts.

--> transferred the holes from the old rail to the new one.

--> I also welded the Y-car.

I have now a rolling X and Y axis. Here you go a link to a video showing the advancement
https://youtu.be/lYa0f33XdGE

Best regards.

And here are some pictures :

[jhiggins7]

Nice progress, motion looks smooth.

[danilom]

Bravo !

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi

Some progress :)

- The Y rail rack is attached
- X rails racks in pgrogress

I also ordered the following :

- 2 x Clearpath Servos CPM-SDSK-2310S-RQN for the X-axis
- 4 x 5:1 Timing belt reduction Kits
- 1 x Acorn Centroid Controler

Waiting for these orders to arrive, I will work on CAD for the Servos plates adaptation (NEMA 23 version). I will post some pictures for the CAD solution once completed for criticism.

Best regards.

[xraydude]

Looking great! I was too scared to mount my racks to the rails off of the table. I had to rig up a clamping system to get them close then slowly stick them on with the rails already mounted on the table. That 3M tape doesnt mess around! Keep up the good work.

Ted

[bachaabdelkabir]

Thanks a lot Ted . It is indeed a scary process.
I didn't find the 3M tape hear in Morocco. I found one of BISON that i will try as a replacement. Link (https://www.google.com/search?q=bison+double+sided+tape&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjLsu-Li8PiAhUHmRoKHee7Bn0QsAR6BAgAEAE&biw=1536&bih=706#imgrc=nHtUkg-z_gI4WM:) :

Some other updates :
- The package containing the Acorn controller has arrived to Morocco and it is now blocked in the airport because I must find a way to clear the customs declarations.

- As for the Servos they are still in transit

- The Timing belt are still not shipped from china

Best regards

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi all

Sorry for not being able to post in the last months.

Here is an update of the build !

- The painting job was done last month.
- Adaptation plates were designed and tested
- Motion was tested using an old Nema 23 stepper
- Chaine carriers were purshased (used) and installed.
- Technic Clearpath Servo were tested using the manufacturer's software but cables are not yet made (I didt'n purshase them to save extra money).
- A control box containing Centroid Acorn system was wired and tested using stepper.

[xraydude]

Abdelkabir, great to see the progress! Any pics of the control box?

Ted

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi Ted

Here are some pics for the control box

[xraydude]

Abdelkabir,

Are you running those transformers in parallel? What voltage are the secondaries?

Ted

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi Ted

I am running them in series. Each one of them is rated to deliver 12V on nominal current and 21V open circuit. So in series, I get 42V.

When running one of the servos I get 20 V in each one them (40V).

I have two others in the same specs in the shelf in case the first ones drop in voltage significantly.

Abdelkabir.

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi dear Mechmate community

I would like to annouce that we have made the first job on the machine today. It was wondefull feeling.

Indeed the machine is not 100% complete, but we needed to see the result of a long journey of hard work.

I would like to thank you all for your efforts and for making this project alive.

Best regards.

[Robert M]

congrats "mate".....wishing you a fun & fruitful MechMate journey ;)
All the best....
R.

[lonestaral]

Well done.
Keep up the good work.

[MetalHead]

Well done!!! Moved thread to MM Already Cutting!!

[baltaran]

Excellent job Abdelkabir.

I can see those Clearpath servos nicely fit in your machine.

I wish you all the best with your project and I wish I could visit you one day when I am on holidays in Morocco.

Keep up the good work and all the best to you!!

[xraydude]

Fantastic! Now the fun and learning really begins. Congratulations!

[MarkRH]

Congrats Abdelkabir, how are you liking the acorn clearpath combo? , I am switching to acorn now. Do you find the nema 23 223oz motors strong enough? Does it cut smooth arches?

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi All

I would like to thank you all for the encouragement.

For Mark : I am very glad that I have chosen the acorn+Clearpath setup,

I would recommend for everyone who is willing to use these servos to spend some good amount of time fine-tuning them. I had some difficulties tunning the X-axis. If it is not it so, it will oscillate and generate some remarkable waves in the cut.

I would also recommend choosing slightly higher torque ones, especially for the X-axis. I remember that it was one-time shutdown signaling by led flashing that peak torque was exceeded wich is a good thing to protect itself. the thing that you will not find in open-loop steppers. It is also so quiet comparing to steppers.

Overall I am very happy with this setup, especially the acorn controller, the software is very professional and centroid tutorials are a good source for training.

I have to mention also that there is a free version of the software but you can not exceed 50 KB of G-code. the unlimited version costs about 140$.

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi comunnity

I want to add somme update to my build:

- First I was working with a 600w router that was very noisy, but It was working fine with small dept of cutting and slower speeds.
- Then I decided to upgrade to a 3kw water cooled spindle and 4kw VFD.
after installing the new spindle setup i was exposed to new problems including :
- A lot of EMI noise witch coused the clearpath servos to shutdown frequently. when connecting the MSP software (clearpath's diagnostcs software) to these servos, i have found the error : "Input timing error". after a lot research in net i came up with the solution of shielding all the signal cables and installing a noise filter in the input of the VFD. so i redid all the cabling in machine and put the vfd in a separate metallic box connected to ground.
- the second problem i am facing right now is to find a soutable gas spring that compensate the weight of the new spindle.
- the third problem is the difficulty to have smooth arches : i have mentioned that before, but after fine-tunning the waves in the cuts are reduced but not eliminated totally. I think the problem is caused by the undersizing of servo's power and mechanical inefficiencies.

Best regards

[MarkRH]

Abdelkabir, teknic recommends a 75v power supply, they also recommend keeping control and supply grounding separated. If your motors dont have enough torque you should see them fault out with that.

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi Mark

Thank's a lot for you reply.

I am using a linear power supply providing about 60v and enough power (watts) to feed all the 4 servos. And I am also separating the servos supply groud from the control one.

As for the smooth arches problem, I found in technic's user manual that the suitable steps per revolution configuration for the non-enhanced servos must not exceed 800 step/rev. So when i changed that from 3400 to 800 and redone the auto-tuning the servos where so mutch stable after that.

My biggest problem right now is EMI witch is confusing the servos when the spindle is on. I am trying different solutions right now like grouding/sheilding/filtring.

Best regards.

[MarkRH]

Abdelkabir, please post what you find with that because teknic does not spec sheilded wire for their motors, But you definately should on the vfd. Are you using their power hub? Ive found their tech support great.

[bachaabdelkabir]

Hi Mark

The machine is working verry well right now. I have found that the problem is the efficiency of the diy shielding that I have done before. in fact, a I used aluminum tape for all the wires (control and spindle), but it turns out that it wasn't good enough to stop the EMI from the spindle and the VFD.

So I redid the wiring one more time but this time with a DIY proper sheilding using a metal wire mesh from a coaxial satellite receiver anntena. I removed the the interior and kept the mesh. and the problem was gone.

I sheiled all cables : Spindle one and also control and signal ones I don't know if it was necessary to sheild the signal ones but I did it anyway to avoid capturing EMI from any external device.

As for the technic's power hub I am not using it.

Unfortunatly I have a bad news : when I was redoing the wiring for the third time, a friend of mine was helping me and he reversed the polarity of one the the servo's power supply line. As a result that servo didn't survive that.

I didn't contact technic's support yet because anyway I must resend it to USA from morocco. And I can't handle this expense right now. So I mounted a simple 2.2 A nema23 stepper as a temporary replacement and it working right now.

I will try to post some pictures soon.

Best regards.

[bachaabdelkabir]

Somme pictures showing the sheilding

[MarkRH]

With the proper vfd filter and wire you should not have needed sheilding on motor wires. I am about to switch mine over, will let you know what I find. Thanks