Working on Rack and Motors - Ball Ground, GA

[IamDave]

I started this in the intro thread and moved it here to ask questions. Its just a little different than the MM design as far as the table goes. I am going to build a bigger table later for it. I need to be able to move this one when needed.
So my goal is to get one working and move it to a full size later.

[IamDave]

My first question. Is 1/4' x 4" x 18" gauge plate the best size for the z axis? I see longer one mentioned on here, and some of the drawings show different size lengths for different options.

[MetalHead]

It really depends on what your doing. If your going to do typical stuff on the machine the 18 inch is fine. I just built this one for a member and it has the 18 inch plate.

[IamDave]

Thank you. That looks great. I just wanted to make sure I was utilizing the entire 8 inches.
(**FYI. All the bent parts I bought from you fit perfectly.)

[IamDave]

I ordered this. Made in USA - 18 x 4 x 1/4 Inch, AISI Type O1, Tool Steel Oil Hardening Flat Stock from
www.mscdirect.com

[MetalHead]

I have this assembly now available as a part ZS01 for $625.00 delivered if anyone is in need of the part. V rails are milled and not ground. I have built jigs to allow complete milling of this 18 inch and 20 inch plate.

[IamDave]

First piece ordered arrived.
Now on to figure out the slider plate.

I think it is 1" x 3" x 1/4" x 28" long and then cut back to 26 (+/-) inches after fitting spring. Is that correct?

[IamDave]

I am a little confused on the Z axis slide plate grinding. Is it best to take it to a machine shop and have it milled?

[IamDave]

Belay My Last. Figured it out...To simple.. Returning to course.

[IamDave]

Took all morning looking through scrap but I found it. A 4ft piece of 1x3 for the slider tube backer. :) Still not exactly sure the correct length.

[IamDave]

No worries got it all sorted.

[IamDave]

Okay had a good weekend of it. Got to go to Amarillo tomorrow.
Start again when I get back.

[IamDave]

I haven't quit just got motors and racks in.
Gonna try and get them mounted over the next week.

[IamDave]

What is the best size for the rack? I ordered and have 3 and they are 1/2'' x 1/2'' square. 20tand pitch.
I am just a little lost on the size. I have been reading. I am just missing the size. I thought I had it sorted but something looks off.
Anyone Please..

[lonestaral]

My rack is 15mm square.

[IamDave]

Thank you. That is a relief for me knowing I have the correct ones.

[IamDave]

Racks and motors mounted. Z plate bearing welded on.
Plate drilled then (What?) Wrong size backer. What was I thinking.
Ok. I posted a picture with the size. So no one else caught it either.
Found a control box to start working on for cheap. It is just a few inches larger than my other routers control box but should still be ok.

[IamDave]

Not sure what I did wanted to add the rest of the pictures before I forget.

[IamDave]

Found a piece cut it long 30 inches so I can cut it back after I get the shock in later. Holes all drilled and started tapping. Of course the end of the day hurry monster, went and broke my tap on the 8th one.

[IamDave]

Got the slide plate and slide tube all bolted up. About all I can do for now.
Got to go out of town for a week or so. Hopefully when I return Mr. "Mo Money" will be here so we can get the control system ordered. That guy just seems to always be in another town when I need him.

[IamDave]

Si it took a little while to get back. Ordered the Power supply PS-6N52 today from ANTEK.
$133 with shipping and tax. It is also the same exact power supply my other router uses.
Got to see the lighter ShopBot version of this machine working. It was a 1996 model.
Pretty much the exact same Design, operators and motors with beefed up steel. They cut 80 1.25 inch thick 12x12 brackets for me in no time flat. I was impressed. Can't wait to get mine up and running now.

[IamDave]

This forum should be called. The light is on but no one is home.

[lonestaral]

Keep working away.
Good to see pictures of a build in progress.
When it is working it is a thrill.

[MetalHead]

I agree, keep posting your progress. Looks like your moving forward. So your going direct drive, no belt reduction to start?

[IamDave]

Thanks. No, not going to use belt reduction at first. I want to see how, the 960oz motors perform together first. My other router uses only one, I have had no problems with it in 10 years, or racking problems.

[IamDave]

Power supply arrived today. Checked fit in the box size (12 x 16 x 12).
Perfect fit leaves 1/2 inch all around for airflow.

[lonestaral]

960oz motors.
You will be able to move elephants around with them.

My machine is direct drive and I have no problems.

[IamDave]

My mistake not 960 oz....
These are the motors I am using. NEMA34 Stepper Motor – 906 oz in 6.1A Single Shaft (KL34H295-43-8A).
Apologies.

[lonestaral]

Only 7% out, still shift an Elephant.:)

[IamDave]

Gecko has the drivers on sale today. November 27, 2017 for $115 each. $40 dollar savings each. Here is the product url. http://www.geckodrive.com/g203v.html

[IamDave]

Does anyone use this ? "GM215 Step Motor / Motion Controller"

[IamDave]

Just got the 4 drivers in. Hmmmm. I was expecting them to be bigger.

[smreish]

Don't let the size fool you....very powerful and efficient

[ifffff]

They are so small because missing heatsink.

[IamDave]

Heat sink? Good idea--Thank you. I think placing these on a motherboard will be a good idea. Is that what most people do now?

[ifffff]

Read gecko manual. Heatsink is nessecary, and of course heatsink compound between driver and heatsink. What did you mean by motherboard?

[IamDave]

Like plug n play available for $65 from cncrouterparts.com

[IamDave]

Only $55 from the website . Here is link to the boards. http://www.pmdx.com/PMDX-134

[IamDave]

Example panel using the PDMX-134

This photo on the left came from this thread - http://www.cnczone.com/forums/gecko-drives/126348-g203v-pmdx-134-a.html

The photo is not correct - The Geckos are installed backwards on the PMDX-134 board!

The correct configuration is on the right.

[ifffff]

This motherboard seems to be nice option.

[Kornerking]

You are getting to the fun part of the project.

I finally had to do a repair on mine. almost 2 years. The transformer/power supply is causing uneven power through the contactor. 144 volts one side 106 through the other. It was a head scratcher till we figured it out.

[IamDave]

Infinite apologies for being sort of Dyslexic. I have been typing PDMX.
It is PMDX.com

So I believe I am going to use the PMDX-126 Rev-C breakout board. The PMDX-134 Motherboard and mount them all on an aluminum screen for a heat sink with a fan to pull the air through. I see Metalhead's setup uses the PMDX-126 at one time as well.

[IamDave]

I don't want it.

[MetalHead]

Well we sure had it also!! Not normal for sure and especially this time of year!!

[IamDave]

I know what you mean. We got 11 inches here. I am 3 hrs. NE of you . Just now getting dried out before the rain hits.

[IamDave]

Don't let the size fool you....very powerful and efficient

Okay surprised at the might of these little drivers. Read for about an hour on them today.

[IamDave]

I had a problem with mine with a bearing sticking in the z. It was causing voltage problems. Everyone kept wanting me to replace the power supply. Replaced the bearing and all is well. Keeping it greased correctly from now on.

[IamDave]

Okay ordered the PMDX-134 Motherboard today 55 plus 9 shipping. gets me a little closer.

[IamDave]

Those people ship fast. 2 days.

[IamDave]

I have completed a lot of hours, reading this forum. Going to take a break now.
Hope all of you have, "A Great Christmas", and a Safe New Year.

[pblackburn]

you do the same

[IamDave]

Okay another new year and another piece of the puzzle arrived, today.
PMDX-126C BOB. $183 with shipping. Now what size ribbon connector is correct?

[MetalHead]

I suggest you reach back out to PMDX and let them know you have the PMDX 134 board. He will tell you the correct cable, but I suspect it is this one:

http://www.pmdx.com/HDR26Ribbon-18

and for PC Connect this one or a Smooth Stepper board:

http://www.pmdx.com/DB25MtoM
http://www.pmdx.com/1PARPCI

[IamDave]

That is the combination. Thank you for the reply.

[IamDave]

I know I am a little slow. But things are still coming in. 2 E-switches and cables from PMDX

[IamDave]

Is it acceptable to just reverse the wiring, on the 8 wire stepper motor. So one runs in reverse on the x-axis, or do it through mach3. I have been reading and am just a little confused.

[IamDave]

Okay all I did was reverse the wires at the drive. That is what it looks like most are doing.
Is that right? Also is there a basic xml file already for Mach 3.

[IamDave]

Never mind I got it sorted.

[IamDave]

Can someone point me to the post that determines ports and pins setup for mach3?
In other words how do you determine the ports and pin setup in mach3?

[IamDave]

First movements in all the right directions today. I quit being mean now..:D.
(Not like anyone listening anyway.)

[jhiggins7]

We're here and keeping an eye on your progress. Most of us tend not to post unless we have something to add. I'm anxious to see your completed machine, with logos, (you already have paint) and cutting! Sounds like you're close.:)

[pblackburn]

Sorry I was late getting to it but shoulda like you sorted it out already.

[IamDave]

It was a little frustrating. I tried posting a video. Wires hanging everywhere.
I need to get the box mounted and the cable drag chain on, as well as all the E-stops.
Slow but steady getting there.

[YANLM]

hello Davey
i follow you. it seems we are at the same level
good luck for the rest.
Yannick

[IamDave]

Yannick. Thank you, I have been watching yours as well. Nice.

[MetalHead]

I have been out for a few days, but here are a few threads worth reading.

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=54035&postcount=37
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=53714&postcount=1

[MetalHead]

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=75712&postcount=39

I caught in the thread above that the Gecko's on that 134 board are not hooked up correctly.

[IamDave]

That is a good catch. I was just using that as an example. (Did not think of ref. credit).
I joined the "CNC Zone" board a while back. Thank you. Now if it will quit raining, I can make enough money to finish this thing.

[IamDave]

Control panel mounted along with 2 e-switch boxes. I used two brackets from home depot electrical section. Need new drill bits. Now where is that can of paint.

[IamDave]

Going to take a break now. New Buckingham spurs, belt and ropes for the year. See you in the canopies.

[jeep534]

It really depends on what your doing. If your going to do typical stuff on the machine the 18 inch is fine. I just built this one for a member and it has the 18 inch plate.


mike can i get more info on these

Thank you
archie

[jeep534]

It really depends on what your doing. If your going to do typical stuff on the machine the 18 inch is fine. I just built this one for a member and it has the 18 inch plate.
Mike,
this is what i would like more info on
thank you
archie

[MetalHead]

I will pm you

[IamDave]

Does anyone place double sided tape, behind the rack on the z-axis? Or is it metal to metal? Got the holes tapped in the rack finally.

[IamDave]

I know 10-40-014 does not show it. I was just wondering. I read some posts earlier in the forum where some used tape there.

[IamDave]

It's all okay, I am developing patience, waiting on parts. Starting to snow, cold 31 degrees, hail, rain, sunshine, wind. To much to climb in trees, to broke not to.

[IamDave]

Do we just purchase another set of plans, if we want to build another one? Or rather for each machine build, we purchase a set of plans for the right to build one.

[pblackburn]

PM Mike and ask him, I was here before the plans were a monetary value. I do not believe that you have to but I do not know for sure. However keeping this forum up and running does take time and investment so a donation may be all he requires or he may ask for the plans to be purchased again. The proper thing would to PM Mike for a response.

[IamDave]

Thank you. I will do that.

[IamDave]

Stupid Cold and Rain. Stuck Inside. Got a little closer today. Waiting on Mike to let me know how to buy the Universal Motor Mounts for the Z motor.

[MetalHead]

I do not ask for the plans to be purchased again. You are restricted to building a machine for yourself. I will allow more than one.

And what Pete said is true, cost a bit to keep the forum going, so donations are always nice.

PM me your address and I will send you the Universal Z mount. Did your kit not have one?

[IamDave]

No sir, I just did not understand the difference when I ordered. Now I do. :o

[IamDave]

Mike. Thank you for the new Z-mount. Much appreciated.

[IamDave]

Okay was able to acquire some 3" Channel and 1.5" Tubing.
So I reworked the top as shown on the plans, Bolted the spoil board down securely and filled the holes. Added cross bracing for added stability.
Table is unshakeable now. Plus I will be able to unbolt and remove it through the 36" wide door when time comes. My 10 Year old 535 router, is getting worried. *(Looks like we are in for a long winter.)

[IamDave]

Going back to zero always. Hope to get to run a file tomorrow.
Just some fine tuning to do now. I used a porter cable on it for now. I am going to change it to a spindle later on. :):):)

[IamDave]

SO I was jogging around on the table. Changing setting accel and vel and such.
Everything seemed to be working okay. Saved exited out Friday and was gone all day Saturday. When I started it back up. Now my Z axis goes down in both buttons + or -?
It works fine on the other router profile. So it has to be something I changed. (I think).
I did a search on the forum.

Maybe an after-thought, after I asked the question. Possibly I corrupted the XML File by doing all the changes and playing around. I will delete that profile and start again fresh.

[IamDave]

Yep, that is what it was. Deleted the profile, and started over from scratch.
Back on track. now to calibrate the motors to move the proper time/distance calculations.
This is actually sinking in a little. Today is the 123rd day of January 2018, and it is still raining, windy, and cold.

[IamDave]

Took 4 times to calibrate all 3 axis. Moves exactly an inch when asked to move an inch.
You don't have to worry about the A axis----Is that right?

[IamDave]

Routed the very first piece this morning. Seemed to be okay.
Got to get used to this table, re-oriented where X&Y are different.

[ifffff]

Took 4 times to calibrate all 3 axis. Moves exactly an inch when asked to move an inch.
You don't have to worry about the A axis----Is that right?

It is more precise when you are calculating step per inch. Or measuring movement over table. One inch can trick you.

[jeep534]

Dave
way to go, Progress

I would route a 10 inch square and measure it

Happy Hunting
archie

[IamDave]

Yes. Good idea. I am going to do that next. Then check the accuracy. Got to go climb a little this weekend with the sun showing up. Thanks.

[jeep534]

next i would route a ten inch circle those should be really telling
archie

[ifffff]

No, to get gantry square you must cut square as big as is possible. On bigger one you find errors more easylly.

[IamDave]

Okay I used a 49 x 48 x 3/4 piece mdf for a temporary spoil board. . I squared the front with the gantry using a 1/4 inch endmill.. Then setup a cut file to square it all the way around to 48x48 it traveled 3 sided with slight removal on 1 corner. I ended up with a 48 x 47 7/8 square. Found 1 high spot on the bed on one side. Cut a 12x12 square. cut fine the piece was just under 12 inches square. Next time I allow offset 1/8 inch. Setup to cut 48 x 48 x 1 inch piece of Extira. (About the same as mdf)) Both motor on x axis sheared the allen key and started turning free. I used titebond on them when I tightened. I will remove and add keyed shafts and gears.

[ifffff]

Thumb rule on cnc build is what joint is suspicious, that will one day make problems.
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5626. Good is that it came out on testing, not by ruining some expensive material.

[IamDave]

I know. I read, and read. I knew that people had, had problems. I got over excited to see it moving.

[MetalHead]

I moved you to MechMates Already Cutting!

So you say your table stripped both x axis set screws?

Make sure the hole on the gear truly matches the shaft size.

Also make sure your springs are not too tight and creating to much resistance.

[IamDave]

Thanks. I am working to get the geared motors now. I am sure, once I get my motors geared and tuned correctly, all will be well. I am just happy as heck I was able to get this far, with as little experience at building I have.

[IamDave]

What I am going to do to fix my allen screw problem, is drill slightly into the shaft on the square, a small hole. I am going to use longer allen set srews to prevent slippage. Note to self: Next time buy the stepper motors, and gears with keyed shafts.

[ifffff]

What I am going to do to fix my allen screw problem, is drill slightly into the shaft on the square, a small hole. I am going to use longer allen set srews to prevent slippage. Note to self: Next time buy the stepper motors, and gears with keyed shafts.

It wont work. You may try fix screw on round side. How tight are gears on shaft? Can you install them with bare hands? If they are too loose you may try fix them with glue. Loctite 648 for example.

[IamDave]

The gears are pretty snug on the shaft. I was able to get one side off easy. The other one I used a brass punch and put the shaft in the vise to beat it out. It had a groove made around it. I used Loctite on them when I put them on.
I was probably moving to hard, and fast against 1 inch material with the smaller router.
But it didn't break the bit...

[ifffff]

Dont use beating and steppers in one sentence. It does not end well. Use puller.

[IamDave]

Ha! No it might not. I did not have small pullers.

[IamDave]

Is there anyone on here, that cuts 1" and 1.25" Extira on a regular basis, with a MechMate? I cut between 100-300 sheets a year. Just wondering.

[IamDave]

Okay 2 -3 days of learning. Apparently during the motor deal, I damaged one of the drives through feedback without blowing a fuse. Support is great there. They are going to look at it and repair. The drives tech manual has a good flowchart and easy to follow.

[IamDave]

If anyone is using the PMDX134 board, and experience problems, that do not make sense. Replace the 25 pin ribbon cable. Maybe it will solve your problems, as it did mine.
I believe this, to also be the reason the slaved motors on my X Axis acted strange and as so caused the pinion gear to come loose. Now everything fine.

[MetalHead]

Glad to hear that you isolated your issue! That is a strange problem for sure. So you are planning to continue with direct drive now that you fixed them?

[IamDave]

No sir. I think I want to go with geared steppers now. I also am going to add the smooth stepper. (Because that fast movement, back to zero scares the ^v^ out of me.).

[wiifm]

If anyone is using the PMDX134 board, and experience problems, that do not make sense. Replace the 25 pin ribbon cable. Maybe it will solve your problems, as it did mine.
I believe this, to also be the reason the slaved motors on my X Axis acted strange and as so caused the pinion gear to come loose. Now everything fine.

Thanks for this tip. Saved me from pulling my hair out.

[IamDave]

Here is a video from Oriental Motors, concerning cooling fans over
electrical components. Some might find useful.
https://www.orientalmotor.com/cooling-fans/cooling-fan-videos/app-video-axial-fans.html?utm_campaign=Cooling%20Fan%20Campaign&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_08yVO11U1krl0JAFyX_gi7CtObq9QEQ_Qrm9JHLZJw5WyWCKc VZ9063cp1yZuiwedhQoGB7dIF3qjpNVwGERrvw79n4FGeYGbdo FIUQkNBG7nMXM&_hsmi=57212882&utm_content=57212882&utm_source=hs_automation&hsCtaTracking=89a6d0f6-5cc4-4899-afe0-2fd3f47f33e3%7Cfe0170f3-7f1b-44ba-8b26-b0ca66b72420

[IamDave]

Just got a 2.2 kw water cooled spindle and vfd for an upgrade. The Porter Cable worked fine for plywood and long curves. We'll see how it goes.
Happy Turkey Day to all tomorrow.

[lonestaral]

Installed one of them not long ago.
Bit of a trial but it is working now.
Make sure you use shielded cable.
Have fun.

[ifffff]

And put that VFD on separate grounded metal box. It generates huge amount RF noise. If i open my VFD (of course when spindle is running) enclosure door, then computer keyboard what is about 50cm of VFD stops working.

[IamDave]

Thank you for the pointers Al and Ivo. I ordered robotics grade cable for the VFD to motor, and I am going to mount the VFD in a panel.

[IamDave]

Mike, hope all is well your way. I see the tornado damage, around you is terrible.

[IamDave]

And put that VFD on separate grounded metal box. It generates huge amount RF noise. If i open my VFD (of course when spindle is running) enclosure door, then computer keyboard what is about 50cm of VFD stops working.

The spindle, I got online works well. It has out performed the 7518 Porter Cable significantly. A little hassle learning to solder the connection, to the motor, and wire the VFD, but not a large learning curve. Now less dust and noise, has made a big difference over the last few months cutting.

[lonestaral]

+1 on the spindle.
I installed one last year, very happy with it.

[IamDave]

Installing a new control panel, I got from Mike.
Purchased a set of Drill Hog Bits off ebay, to drill the holes.
So far so good. Looks way better than the 12x16x8 I had on it.:D

[xraydude]

Looking good, Davey. I have the same enclosure from Mike. I went with some massive heat sinks and internal fans, with no intake or exhaust ports, but I think I may have to add ports for fresh air. Im able to keep the driver temps below 50C with everything buttoned up, but it will drop by 13C if I crack the door. Just not getting quite enough thermal transfer through the enclosue walls. Did you put any filtration on the intake side?

Ted

[IamDave]

No, no filtration. This fan actually creates a breeze through the box, and blows out.
I used aluminum tubing, and a screen mesh, as my heat sinks. Filtration filter was a thought. I may add it later, if needed.

[IamDave]

Does anyone cut 1 inch mdf or extira on a regular basis, with their machine?

[IamDave]

Figured it out. Was just cutting to fast, losing steps here and there. Experience can have it's cost. Wore out the bearing in my first spindle, two bearing. Spindle cut about 450 sheets of extira. Not bad for a 200 investment. Well worth it for the savings in broken bits using the porter cable setup.

[IamDave]

It's like a ghost town around here, in N. Ga.

[IamDave]

Well time has come, as planned. My little 4x4 build is growing. After cutting close to 8-900 sheets of 1-inch Extira and plywood, and lots of bits and mistakes.:D.. I took it apart this week. Going to build her back soon bigger. Learned a lot and gained a lot of knowledge, I didn't have before. It was still sad to take apart, after all the work I put in it.