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Borko
Sun 08 March 2015, 11:56
Hi to all you great guys,

I'm Borko from Macedonia. The access to this great forum begun couple of years ago with google-ing two magic words "DIY" and "CNC".
That was viral.
A lot of sites for hobby DIY, MDF made, ALU made.... but nothing like this.
The dream begun, I was biten. I got the virus into me.

I've read dosen of threads and decision has been made.Yes I'm gonna make it.

I think this will be a long journey, I want to enjoy, and ofcourse I'll need all your support.

Borko
Sun 08 March 2015, 17:07
I want to start with Gerald's "kitchen project" is it Ok?.
I'm good with mechanics but not as well in electronics.
In meanwhile I found some "I" profiles on a junk yard 3m long. I'll attach some photos when I learn how to:)

Borko
Mon 09 March 2015, 13:11
Apologies to everyone, now I look at my thread title and it seems that I say hello only to Balkan forum members. It is a written mistake. I meant HELLO from Balkan peninsula where Macedonia is located.

Thanks

Borko
Mon 09 March 2015, 14:38
Here are some pics of my future beams.:D

lonestaral
Mon 09 March 2015, 19:02
Hello and welcome.

IMMark
Mon 09 March 2015, 19:24
Best of luck on your build!
Mark

servant74
Tue 10 March 2015, 16:24
Getting started is the hardest part, or so the big boys tell me ;-)

Borko
Tue 10 March 2015, 17:59
Thank you guys for your support and welcome.
My plan for(working) table size is 2450 x 2100. I'm limited in X direction by X - beams. I've got it from junkyard, (very sturdy and straight "I" cross section 180 x 75 mm, immediately caught my eye). They are little bit rusty but angle grinder will do the job.
Paid 40$ a piece.

Borko
Tue 10 March 2015, 18:23
Plan to get quote considering step motors,drivers...from this supplier:
www.driver-motor.com (China)

1. Steppers 86HS9801
2. DM856 Fully digital stepping drivers
3. Timing pulleys for reduction ratio 3:1 per axis
4. Spindle, water cooled, 2.2 KW

For Z-axis plan to use ball screw with NEMA 23 stepper (57HS6403).

Does it seem to be Ok ? What do you think ?

darren salyer
Thu 12 March 2015, 16:03
Why the decision to use ball screw on the Z? I've seen several builds do this.

servant74
Thu 12 March 2015, 16:58
Several reasons, some more valid than others: reduce backlash, smooth operation under load, relative ease of installation, etc. My favorite is: because the owner wants it.

KenC
Fri 13 March 2015, 05:09
This owner wants it :D

NEMA 23 stepper for Z is a bad idea.
The saving is insignificant. (what is 20~50 USD compare to the total USD4000 that you are going to spend)
I like to use same motor for all axis.

Fox
Fri 13 March 2015, 05:19
I agree with Ken. Same motor.

Borko
Sat 14 March 2015, 17:56
Thanks to all of you for the discussion for Z-axes.
Ken I didn't mean to save 30-35 bucks on motor. This planning was only for constructive reasons I got in my head.

Darren in this case, gravity(weight of everything that z-axis will care) will have no affect to stepper holding torque - gas strut.

Yes Jack, the backlash will be null, especially if we consider the weight of spindle (maybe bigger in the future) and to reduce maintenance.
I'll plan to use ball screw with 5mm pitch.

The spider design is ingenious we must admit, the machine either, but a little spice I hope, wouldn't bother to Gerald.

Ok Fox, let it be NEMA34 for Z-Axis, I'll sleep well without thinking NEMA23 is under dimensioned for the loads.

Borko
Sat 14 March 2015, 23:43
What do you think about these VFD and spindle on eBay?
Any experience?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2KW-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-2-2KW-VFD-VARIABLE-DRIVE-GERMANY-ACTIVE-DEMAND-/171043815051?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item27d3017e8b

danilom
Sun 15 March 2015, 03:51
Good as any other chinese spindle and vfd (all look the same) , brings joy to any Mechmater when cutting.

Dependant on what you want to do , 5mm pitch on ballscrew will severely limit your Z axis feedrate especially if using LPT or higher microstep. And 5mm vs 10mm would not give you any more precision.

1.1Nm nema23 57HS6403 is not in any way up to the task for the Z axis motor, 57HS2410 with 2.8Nm might but why take the chance...

pblackburn
Sun 15 March 2015, 16:45
How much precision are you looking for...most use 200 step/rev with a 10 microstep. If one revolution is 10mm then per step is 0.005mm of travel the 10mm and 0.0025mm per step for the 5mm. The main factor is what type of speed in rapid you wish to run. A lot of people in other forums put the 1605 ballscrew on Milling Machines. Higher accuracy is required but most mills only travel around 5000 mm\min (approx 200IPM) in rapid. A router, the rapids are with a DIY build, is between 7600-30000 mm\min (300-1200IPM) depending on design factors. So you will be turning the 1605 ballscrew so fast you may have distortion. As Danilo stated, not much gain with a 5mm pitch vs the 10mm on a router. You will need to find the balance between the speed you are comfortable with and the accuracy and precision you wish to have. Unfortunately these do not play well with each other in the cost end of things, however, you can build a machine to do what you require without a pile of expense. In other words, you don't need a high end servo driving 25mm ballscrew with a minute pitch and encoder feedback controls either.

A NEMA 23 stepper in my opinion will be too undersized for the axes. You need to calculate out your load potential. You will see it clear as day. The NEMA 34 gets away with it with reduction quite easily.

My last bit of advice is to read until you understand most before locking down on any decision. A little delay now will make a more satisfying build later. The guys in this forum are not only helpful and experienced. They will not lead you astray. Without them, I would not have my machine up and running.

Good Luck

Borko
Mon 16 March 2015, 15:18
Ok, I understand the difference. I wouldn't gain much in precision but lose in speed. We are talking about 0.0025 mm vs 0.005mm:eek:.You're right. It doesn't matter to what I'm gonna deal with.

I have to choose between 5,10,20 mm pitch size. I'll go with the middle one.( 5 mm will slow the machine, 20 will decrease the precision and ballscrew diameter is to high 31mm, so 10 is the best match).

Danilo, I'm gonna use NEMA 34 for z-axis with 10mm pitch ballscrew.

Thanks Pete for your wide explanation to have the things more clear.

Guys, your experience is priceless.

Fox
Mon 23 March 2015, 03:17
There's this thing with accuracy crunching numbers; it's all theory.
If you are going hunting for numbers 0.0025 mm vs 0.005mm in your Mechmate build, you are over-reacting. Your machine frame, and certainly your MDF bed, are going to move way more then that.
Even profesional massive CNC systems in big companies have a very hard time of doing that accuracy.

Borko
Mon 23 March 2015, 17:11
I grind the X - Beams from rust, and did the measurement. I've got non parallel flanges to both beams. It's along the beams. Any idea how to resolve this? It's too much for shims. The beams are very straight, and massive too.

smreish
Mon 23 March 2015, 18:48
I would flip the beam if one edge really is flat and use the flat side up.
Then, I would custom cut or shim/grind the leg attachment points to make the top lie in plane.

On my #5, I had the similar problem with my C-channel and "tipped" the channel inward to get the edge flat in plane with the y - car. This caused the bed to be like : /_____\, but the top edges were flat and plumb.
....may not be the best solution, but it worked.

KenC
Wed 25 March 2015, 04:03
Shimming will sort things out, if you feel bad with a thicj shim pack, just remove some of the shims & replace them with thick washer.
Its old beam afterall, must compromise a little.

Borko
Fri 27 March 2015, 18:47
Thanks for your recommendations. It could help a lot, but I'm not happy with thick shims. I came to this in my mind.:). What do you think?

Borko
Fri 27 March 2015, 18:58
Pics size so small. I meant to grind channel 1mm width / 5 mm depth with few passes of 1mm grinder disk, and then to apply a force to the top of the beam. End closing plates welded to the beams will fix it.

pblackburn
Fri 27 March 2015, 20:17
I would turn them upside down like Sean said

KenC
Sat 28 March 2015, 06:06
I would tilt/align the I beam & use the straightest face possible.
You only need one straight face.

DocTanner
Sat 28 March 2015, 07:52
I would use an automotive body filler to create a flat smooth surface.

gorantec
Fri 03 April 2015, 03:24
Hello and welcome.
Добредојде Борко :)

Borko
Fri 03 April 2015, 13:49
Thanks gorantec.

Blagodaram Goran.

MetalHead
Mon 06 April 2015, 04:27
Ditto on what Sean said.

Borko
Sun 26 April 2015, 14:46
I did a small brake with planning, and start groundwork leveling. While I'm preparing the space for future MM, I requested a quote from China and got fast reply from Claudia.

Company site: www.driver-motor.com

This is their qoute:


Hello Borko,

According to your request, we'd like to feedback as below:

1, NEMA34 step motor 86HS9801: USD48.00/pc x 5 pcs

2, Stepper driver DM856: USD78.00/pc x 5 pcs

3, Spindle DTS-23: USD238.00/pc x 1 pc

4, Spindle holder for DTS-23: USD30.00/pc x 1 pc

5, VFD for DTS-23: USD218.00/pc x 1 pc

6, Collect ER20 chucks whole set: USD6.00/pc x 10 pcs

7, Spanner for ER20 chuck: USD8.00/pc x 1 pc

8, Linear guide way BRH15B carriage: USD40.00/pc x 4 pcs

9, Linear guide way BRH15B-500mm: USD80.00/pc x 2 pcs

10, Timing pulley T5 with 20 teeth: please advise the matching belt width

11, Timing pulley T5 with 60 teeth: please advise the matching belt width

12, Timing belt T5 x 355: please advise the belt width

13, Ball Screw Model No. DFS01605 - 3.8: We need drawing for the machined ends for quoatation

14, Coupling W type: please advise the length and diameter of the coupling?

15, CNC breakout board: USD40.00/pc x 1 pc

16, Energy chain type LX25.4 (25x57mm, R75): USD30.00/meter x 1.5 meter

17, Energy chain type LX25.2 (25x38mm, R75): USD22.00/meter x 1.5 meter

All above is based on FOB shenzhen incoterm, please comment the other specification.

Regards,
Claudia

BFreaky
Tue 12 May 2015, 13:07
And the shipping cost for all this?

Borko
Tue 12 May 2015, 13:28
Approx. 430 $. But shipping costs are different for different countries. You need to ask for a quotation.

Borko
Tue 09 June 2015, 17:21
Hi guys I haven't posted a long time. As I said this will be slow build. I have to jump from work to work. The nature doesn't wait, a lot of season work in vineyard, spraying...and so. It took a lot of time at weekends. Here's the picture.:)

Borko
Tue 23 June 2015, 15:25
Finally the parts arrived. Released from customs. I ordered according to above quote.
It seems to be Ok but timing pulleys don't make me happy.
The gear ratio I plan to make reducers is 1:3.
Pulleys are 60 / 20 teeth Type T5.

It can be clearly seen that there is backlash between T5 belt and 60 teeth pulley. I can not see on 20 teeth pulley coz of flanges.:mad:

Pls I'll appreciate your comments .

Alan_c
Wed 24 June 2015, 15:33
I noticed this on my pulleys and belts as well, I questioned the supplier and was told that it was normal, I have not experienced any problems of backlash in my belt drive reduction system.

Fox
Thu 25 June 2015, 23:45
Reason you most likely won't notice any backlash after installing the entire stuff on your machine is your reduction, and the amount of teeth in mesh will make it dissappear. That's the benefit of pulley and belts vs meshed gears.

Borko
Sat 27 June 2015, 16:14
What will happen with backlash, it depends on loads, while steppers run forward after backward and reverse. I'm worried about this, doesn't make me happy, but if you guys say so than I'll sleep well at the very beginning.
Thank you guys.

pblackburn
Sat 27 June 2015, 16:19
Backlash is where the motor moves but there is play in the mechanism before the thing that the motor is driving actually starts moving and that amount of error is called backlash

Fox
Sun 28 June 2015, 03:55
Yes, and that's why it's less with a pulley belt pulley reduction.. vs gear gear reduction or direct drive.

Borko
Tue 23 August 2016, 15:31
Sixteen months have been passed since my last post but I have not stopped reading the forum. Yes, the machine building was delayed, but I had to prepare surface fundamental for the beast. I got approved ( green light from wife ) and started to adapt the future workshop.

Pics will follow.

Borko
Tue 23 August 2016, 17:56
Here it is. Leveling first.

Borko
Tue 23 August 2016, 18:07
The progress.

Borko
Wed 24 August 2016, 18:35
Almost finished.

Borko
Wed 24 August 2016, 18:48
Walls and ceiling colored white, with homemade neon armatures.:)

Borko
Thu 25 August 2016, 17:45
For the start I would need for a angle grinder ( big one ) that I intend to use as a chop saw. The choice was chinese industrial tools brand INGCO. It's something between quality and price. Powerfull grinder 2100 W.

Borko
Thu 25 August 2016, 17:51
I like clear and nice cuts.
So, this is my DIY stand for angle grinder.:)

lonestaral
Fri 26 August 2016, 02:37
Nice looking chop saw jig.
Necessity is the mother of invention.

Borko
Tue 30 August 2016, 14:07
Steel cut and construction started (angle grinder did nice and precise cuts ). The metal frame will be all joined with screws. Steel was new but stayed couple of months outside, there is surface corrosion which I will remove before painting.

Here are some pics of the progress.

servant74
Tue 30 August 2016, 14:49
Well along the way. Looks great!

Borko
Tue 30 August 2016, 21:24
Thank you for the encourage Jack.

Borko
Sat 03 September 2016, 16:41
The building continues this weekend. I use stick welder. These red magnet arrow holders are terrific, 5 USD each.:)

Borko
Sun 04 September 2016, 01:04
I've got custom made plasma cut 6mm plates for bolting legs an frame. Small welds and pivot drilled with this old drill that I bought on junkyard for 10 bucks.

Borko
Sun 04 September 2016, 01:17
It came out that the old drill is METABO with gear box inside. It 'eats' steel like butter with only 200 W.:D

Everything done on place without stand drill.

Fox
Sun 04 September 2016, 03:52
If you are indeed bolting all joints only ( I notice the tackwelds, but I think for drilling only ? ) you better use two bolts on those joints to create a more rigid construction. One bolt creates a pivoting joint where the table surface mdf and front and back frame are the only parts preventing racking from quare to parallelogram. In Cnc table frames you want everything as square and rigid as you can. If you weld the subbeams you do not have the pivot action.

Borko
Mon 05 September 2016, 02:14
If you are indeed bolting all joints only ( I notice the tackwelds, but I think for drilling only ? ) you better use two bolts on those joints to create a more rigid construction. One bolt creates a pivoting joint where the table surface mdf and front and back frame are the only parts preventing racking from quare to parallelogram. In Cnc table frames you want everything as square and rigid as you can. If you weld the subbeams you do not have the pivot action.

Thank you Fox for your advice. You are right, there is possibility for pivoting, except I Secure the bolts for front and back frame with legs ( easier one ) than drilling second hole in crossbeams and beams ( there is no access / or one side of '[' channel must be additionally cut off for drill access what does not make me happy ). I want to use as less as possible welds because I would like to leave a chance for disassemble, moving and transporting, otherwise it would be pity to cut and grind this awesome machine.

I can weld cross members anytime if comes to necessity.

Here is the pic of joint plate ( legs / front - back frame ). Pls tell me your opinion.

Borko
Mon 05 September 2016, 02:38
Somewhere on the forum I found the idea of making own bevel shims. I'll need them for bolting cross memebers to main beams.

The cut-off pieces from main beams are used for this purpose. Making something from 'nothing' make me fell happy.

There will be some time and work consuming but the bevel match ideally.;)

Borko
Mon 05 September 2016, 02:57
In meantime laser cut parts are finished and bent. All done locally for a good price. Bending cost me only 5$.;)

Borko
Tue 06 September 2016, 00:22
I started building from upside down. Drilled also holes for bolting cross bearers on lowest frame horizontal parts ( for eventually future moving bed, lower for cca. 600mm, and upgrading the machine to another version, who knows? ).

Borko
Tue 06 September 2016, 00:28
All steel parts marked and ready for disassembling and painting.

MetalHead
Tue 06 September 2016, 20:56
You may want to use a set of punches to mark your steel. Easy to paint over the numbers and forget where you are .... wont say how I know these things :o :D

Borko
Wed 07 September 2016, 00:03
You are right Mark. It didn't come to my mind they would be covered.:o. You saved me a lot of messy time. Thank you.

Borko
Wed 07 September 2016, 01:08
It is a horrible weather with rain these days, weather forecast says it will be so whole week. So painting delayed.

Beast took apart and assembled on it's legs. Bolts hard tighten.

Here I come guys to the discussion we had at the beginning of this thread.

We have the situation here.

You can see what happens with top flanges of my 'I' beams. Not laying in the plane.

danilom
Wed 07 September 2016, 23:52
Choosing a relatively flat beam lowers the cost and saves time later.

Only two solutions now are to mill it flat or level with epoxy, none of them are cheap as 100$ a beam or easy as taking a look at couple of pieces for level

you could make rails with small leveling screws threaded in far side so you have two pints of contact and can set the rails level and then fill the void with "filler" of your choice

Borko
Thu 08 September 2016, 02:01
Yesterday I went through completely different way for resolving this 'headache'.
I got this idea from far beginning and here's what I've done:

I precisely "plastic surgery" cut line all along the beams 25mm under the top flange ( this height come from position of the angle grinder ) with 1mm steel cutting disk.

Future angle iron rail set as a beneath support for cutting disk and one screw of the grinder sliding to the top flange surface.

ifffff
Thu 08 September 2016, 02:08
Levelling epoxy isnt that expensive to avoid levelling with this method. I just bought to me some. Price was 15,50€+VAT per kg.

My comment for belt drive is: use HTD profile, it doesnt have backlash. My first mechmate uses HTD5M profile. With T5 i think problems are quaranteed.

Borko
Thu 08 September 2016, 02:20
The "Surgery" took 2 hrs with most time used for inside cut ( I jumped over the cross members with some small hurts between the legs:o).

The another beam cut done easy. It was from outside.:D

The cut depth is 4mm.

Borko
Thu 08 September 2016, 03:14
Next, I made these "special tools" (two of them) from scrap parts laying around with few welds and with the help of the future Mechmate user applied force on the top flange at the same time.

Borko
Thu 08 September 2016, 03:16
End plates will fix it, and to be on the safe side I put small welds in the groove along the cut.

Voila, flanges are in plane, we are back in the game.:D

smreish
Mon 12 September 2016, 18:41
I honestly have not seen that done in all the 100+ builds of a MM. Unique solution. Are you planning on welding a few spots to keep the kerf from separating?

ifffff
Tue 13 September 2016, 00:32
My suggestion is to weld crosswise on I beam some reinforcments like on picture
15753
And then weld the cut.

Fox
Tue 13 September 2016, 09:45
Ivo, imo better don't suggest to weld the cut entirely, the main beam will go bananas on him, bending all over the place, even with the helpers.

Sean he writes it just above your question, that he already did little welds along the groove.

I do not think this was the best solution nor the simplest, shimming the beam would have been easier and better imo cause you kept the integrity intact. Now you introduced weakness where you did not want it in your main beam, where you want a perfect solid place to mount your rails.

But with small, say 10 mm welds or so and alternating ( from side to side and front to back etc) welding sequence along the cut on both ends of the beam, it should become strong enough once again without distorting. Make sure you let it cool in between, let's when you have 4 welds ( 2 each side) on, 8 welds on, 12 welds and so on. When one beam is cooling you can weld on the other etc.

Good welding sequences save the day when it comes to keep things straight, or making them straighter for that matter.
See Gerald's straitening techniques for example where he advised to weld along a bend beam to straigthen it out, to see how much influence a little welding( read heat) can have on a piece of straight (or bend) steel that weighs a hundred kilo.

Borko
Fri 16 September 2016, 13:23
Sean, either without spot welds the beam has it's integrity. The main role in this case will fall to 'end plates'. In addition, the kerf is only half of the vertical section of "I" beam( 4mm from 8mm). With kerf, I removed material for 'line guided torsion'( that's why the torsion is done in the same momentum in 1/3 of beam length from ends) I applied to upper flange. 2-3 strikes with homemade 'lever tool' did the job.

Ivo, there will no be need for reinforcements, 'end plates' will do the same. Welding all along the cut will make strong deformations. Only spot welds 250mm between.

Fox, The biggest force that strikes the beam is sum of ( half weight of gantry + Y car and everything that goes in it), when the Y-car is nearest to the beam. So beam is generally affected by vertical force and small moment of that force created by linear rail distance to vertical axis of the beam.

So, we've got beams back to the plain without putting thick shims, resins or similar that make rails standing on 'glass legs' or that's what I'm feeling about.:)

After welding beams kept very straight and strong too.

Thank you guys for the comments and not letting go out of the right way.

Pics will explain everything.

Borko
Sun 18 September 2016, 13:05
This weekend I continued with cutting down angle iron 60 x 60 mm to 28 mm. Used one disk 1mm thick for one rail.

It's very important to open slightly ( bend ) cut off part just before breaking through ( opposite, there is danger of disk to be catch inside the kerf and at cca 11.000 rpm:eek: flying parts of disk that are life dangerous), or just stop grinding before breaking through and separate the top part with pliers with twisting. I had very unpleasant experience that make me aware.

I want to share with future builders.

I used 'sandwich' system, plywood inside and console surface for angle grinder sliding.

Pics worth thousand words or some others tell me:)

Borko
Sun 18 September 2016, 13:18
It took 4 hours to cut all the rails.
I'm satisfied with cut quality.

Rails final grinding did with 40 grit sanding discs mounted on grinding disc 6mm thick. Height monitored at single pass in multiple points along the lenght. All done within 0.2 mm tolerance.

Borko
Sun 18 September 2016, 13:31
Skate worked perfectly. It took a little bit more time for the first rail but when you get experienced...It's easier.

Fox
Mon 19 September 2016, 01:15
Fox, The biggest force that strikes the beam is sum of ( half weight of gantry + Y car and everything that goes in it), when the Y-car is nearest to the beam. So beam is generally affected by vertical force and small moment of that force created by linear rail distance to vertical axis of the beam.

Don't forget cutting forces my friend, and you'll be amazed how much even a big table will be shaking ( sideways !) when the thing is rapidly moving along it's axes, because you're stopping and accelerating your entire Z +gantry.

Borko
Wed 21 September 2016, 12:09
I'll keep that in mind, thank you Fox.

Borko
Sat 24 September 2016, 00:30
Y-car parts assembled and tightened with clamps. I needed scrap metal parts to fold and tight the Y-car. Threaded rods are perfect for fine tuning. Everything square and welding started.

Granite tile is reference surface.

Borko
Sat 24 September 2016, 00:36
X-rails marked and drilled.

Borko
Sat 24 September 2016, 00:53
Here's the pic of welded and tag welds grind Y-car.

Borko
Sat 24 September 2016, 01:10
Here's what happened when I took out clamps and threaded rods. I got difference of 6mm.

What do you think guys should I leave it this way ( I think when Z-assembly will be put in, screws will fix it, Or.. ?) Pls I need your comments.

Fox
Sat 24 September 2016, 01:48
6 mm is a lot ! Or do you mean 0,6 mm ( cant read the drawing )

Borko
Sun 25 September 2016, 01:27
I double measured. It's 3mm.
Fox, see the pic.

danilom
Sun 25 September 2016, 03:45
Fill it with shims between spider plate and y car

Throughout this whole thread we can see lots of problems that are common to novices, maybe some of them could not even happen if the wealth of information on this forum has been used.
My advice is to stop now and slow down, read some of the more documented build histories and save time on repairs later.

Borko
Wed 28 September 2016, 13:49
It's to addicting Danilo, can't stop right now, I read and work both, I want to finish 'crude' metalwork just before fine adjustment and kitchen project.

Borko
Wed 28 September 2016, 14:06
I used afterwork hours for gantry assembling.

Borko
Wed 28 September 2016, 14:28
Main beams pilot drilled and tapped.

Borko
Mon 03 October 2016, 11:14
Gantry is riding on the main beams.:). It's rolling very smooth even rails are not precisely mounted.

Y-car found it's place on the gantry.

Energy cable carriers and chains assembled.

Borko
Mon 03 October 2016, 11:34
It's time to turn this rusty machine into 'pearl'.

Manual steel brush and grinder steel brush did the work.
Nitro solvent used for wiping rust powder after mechanical treatment.

I decided for sponge roller painter, it gives very nice paint structure and it is not paint consumer ( like spraying process ). Furthermore, my workshop stayed without stains.:D

Priming first.

Fox
Mon 03 October 2016, 11:36
I applaud your work and the fact that you share even though I am with Danilo that you could have prevented some mistakes by reading a little more into the forum. Some people only read, and that's not good either ;-)

Keep going.

Borko
Mon 03 October 2016, 11:37
The progress of painting.

Borko
Mon 03 October 2016, 11:53
I almost forgot to share this : Cut-off rail piece used as rod for energy chain carriers. That's why I admire this construction, there is nothing to be discarded.:D

smreish
Sun 09 October 2016, 16:52
I used the cut off of the veerail as carrier supports too.

Borko
Tue 11 October 2016, 11:54
Finally, all painted and put back.

The 'ugly corroded steel' shined like a diamond.:D

Borko
Tue 11 October 2016, 12:18
Dark blue color is essential, black for rails and chain supports, dark grey for Y - car ( mixed black and grey colors I got in the workshop ), reason: blue color all gone and didn't want to buy another can.

Borko
Tue 11 October 2016, 12:23
In meanwhile I used cross bearers for drying tea :).

lonestaral
Tue 11 October 2016, 18:47
Looking good.
Good to see another MechMate on a tiled floor:)

Borko
Tue 11 October 2016, 21:30
Thank you Al.

Borko
Sat 05 November 2016, 04:14
I haven't posted couple of weeks, but I'm still working and keep reading.
Ok, the next is 'kitchen project'. I can not not resist anymore to laying motors, drivers and electronics that arrived approx. 1 year ago.:)

Borko
Mon 07 November 2016, 12:22
Mach3 installed on Intel Celeron 1.7 GHz / 2GB RAM, perfect machine as controller.

Borko
Mon 07 November 2016, 13:07
Stepper motors wired half coil, type 86HS9801, digital drivers Leadshine DM856, toroid transformer 1KVA, 220VAC input / 73 VDC output.

Borko
Mon 07 November 2016, 13:37
Current rush in 1KVA toroid transformer is so much that blow up fuses.
'SOFT START' electronic device is a must when using transformers over 300 - 400 KVA.

danilom
Mon 07 November 2016, 14:35
Just for sake of putting information for new members to read I must question last couple of posts.

First this does not look large enough toroid to be 1kva ... seems like my standard ones ~600va.

Capacitor is inadequate for this type of current draw.

don't want to start a war but I thought that wiring bipolar parallel became standard or 4 wire stepper is ok. Never understood this half coil theory.

What makes this relic computer and monitor a PERFECT machine? How did you conclude its perfect, did you test the LPT signals output etc...

Borko
Wed 09 November 2016, 16:03
Just for sake of putting information for new members to read I must question last couple of posts.

First this does not look large enough toroid to be 1kva ... seems like my standard ones ~600va.

Capacitor is inadequate for this type of current draw.

don't want to start a war but I thought that wiring bipolar parallel became standard or 4 wire stepper is ok. Never understood this half coil theory.

What makes this relic computer and monitor a PERFECT machine? How did you conclude its perfect, did you test the LPT signals output etc...

Danilo, I appreciate your experience and knowledge a lot, and it's good above posted infos to be clarified for sake of all Mechmate builders including me.

Maybe it's my fault considering posting pictures, it doesn't look like 1000VA ( by it's dimensions ), when you look at the pic, but it is. It's ordered from www.trafco.rs with CE certificate and so on. Below, the pic of data label. SOFT START cost only 10$, I wanted it as a precaution.


Capacitor is NIPPON 10.000 uF( microFarad's) @ 80V, snap-in type. I wired two in parallel to get 20.000 uF but second one blow up while first run and frightened me so much that I throw away the multimeter that I had in my hand :o. I suppose capacitor was old one.

I understand your concern of stepper wiring. I agree with you that we'll get max power / torque when wiring bipolar parallel. Below curves explain it. I would love it too, who wouldn't ? But that what scares me is that this stepper motor ( 86HS9801 = 34HS9801) when wired bipolar parallel draws 8A current that exceeds driver DM856 peak current 5.6A

I'm not an expert in this field, just logical thinking. I'll be happy if you lead to opposite.

The old PC is 'Perfect' right now cause the 'empty pocket'. But I run the steppers in jog, running some of wizards from MACH3. There was endless happiness they become alive !! Why not using this PC as controller anyway? What difference does it make ? Maybe I'm not thinking the right way?:o

Nevertheless, thanks for you time spent in this goldmine forum with newbies.

Regards,

Borko

Borko
Sun 13 November 2016, 03:52
I want the custom made PSU to look proffesional. Ebay is the right place to find everything you need you can't find at home.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141906974878?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Condensers 'snap in' type also found on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/272266721321?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Regards,
Borko

Borko
Thu 24 November 2016, 13:27
Stop blocks cut, drilled, tapped and welded.

Inductive sensors carriers made of rails cut-off parts.

20mm holes drilled into rails with this amazing 3$ hole saw.
I didn't believe it would remain sharp.:D

javeria
Mon 28 November 2016, 07:24
Please buy a new computer ! and Danilo is correct.

Borko
Mon 28 November 2016, 09:31
Yes, new computer and steppers wired bipolar parallel.

Borko
Mon 27 February 2017, 15:22
I decided to use Dimitry's construction for Z-axis with lead screw and ball nut.
Dimitry, I hope I got your permission.

There were cut off cross bearer pieces, channel 80x40, but not long enough for already machined lead screw.

Pieces welded and cut to proper length. Alignment checked, seems to be promising.

firechief
Wed 01 March 2017, 13:37
Fill it with shims between spider plate and y car

Throughout this whole thread we can see lots of problems that are common to novices, maybe some of them could not even happen if the wealth of information on this forum has been used.
My advice is to stop now and slow down, read some of the more documented build histories and save time on repairs later.

I'am in the middle of my build, I have done allot of reading on the forum for years and there is so much stuff and 20 different ways of doing something, it is hard to tell what the right way is to do it. Someone will do it one way and 5 others have a different way of doing it. Then you have to people that want to change it and 10 post latter it don't work. Simple thing sometime is hard.

firechief

servant74
Wed 01 March 2017, 14:31
Yes, there are lotus of ways to do almost everything. The great thing is to get a fine build we don't need the 'most optimum solution' for each thing, we need what works for us!

Don't get to tied down to the details of one way or another. Do what wocrks for YOU. For me, I try to choose one way to do each thing and stick with it for that task rather than changing techniques. For me, that keeps things simpler, and I am more likely to succeed.

Choose, and keep going. ... At least that is my 2cents worth.

Borko
Fri 03 March 2017, 16:50
Yes, I agree with Jack, do the things that are most suitable for you, If sometimes something goes wrong just go back and do it another way. That's my way, at least experiment is what makes you thinking 'out of the box'.;)

I decided to remove / grind the fillet channel angle where lead supports will lay.
The ball nut travel is 290mm.

Borko
Mon 06 March 2017, 14:18
I use granite tile as reference surface. 'Body filler' to correct the geometrical imperfect of 60 x 40 tube, than hand sanded on 80 grit sand paper put on granite tile. All tightened and spot welded to proper height.

Borko
Mon 06 March 2017, 14:26
It took some time to adjust 60 x 40 tubes laying in granite surface.
Calculations for linear rails distance done and marked.

Borko
Mon 06 March 2017, 14:47
I put a filler layer on scratched metal and sanded.

Final checking with dial indicator 'where are rails' compared to granite surface.

Very thin shims needed to be placed in order rails to be in plane. ( different shims made from different size grit sand paper 1500;2000;3000 ).

Borko
Sat 11 March 2017, 00:06
Here's the Z-axis finished.

Borko
Sat 11 March 2017, 00:33
I used Dimitry's .dxf files for belt reduction gearboxes laser cut parts but with my modification. In my case, T5 pulley shaft supports are on both sides with bearings into plates. Reduction ratio 3:1.

Borko
Sat 11 March 2017, 00:37
Here the building progress in pictures.

Borko
Sat 11 March 2017, 00:39
More pics.

IamDave
Thu 27 April 2017, 20:41
Nice I picked up a few ideas watching you. Thanks.

Borko
Tue 02 May 2017, 16:42
We are here to share the information and possibilities. I'm glad to hear you find something useful Davey.

Regards

Borko

Borko
Tue 11 July 2017, 12:46
For rails alignment I decided to use piano wire method.
I couldn't find wire in local stores, so E-bay offers great stuff.

This is the link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/304-Stainless-steel-bright-wire-single-full-hard-steel-wire-0-2mmto-0-6mm-/391287220882?var=&hash=item5b1a892a92:m:mm_ZonGzeGZJ9AHl1Thx9Bw

and is quite inexpensive.

It's 0.4mm SS304 hard steel wire.

I hope it will be of help for other builders.;)

Borko
Tue 11 July 2017, 13:14
I didn't want to drill or tap in main beams for wire supports so came out with this solution. Additional welded metal strips to maintain in place 45 degree strip.

To fix the supports clamps are used.

M6 screws in height adjustable milled channel.

The counterweight is 13-14 kg according to Sag-wire chart.

dbinokc
Sat 15 July 2017, 08:56
Is there a reason to prefer wire over fishing line when doing alignment?

Tom Ayres
Sat 15 July 2017, 09:35
Yeah, someone else has already figured the sag measurements for that gauge.

smreish
Mon 17 July 2017, 18:31
fishing line tends to get stretched and thin in the middle throwing off the datum.