Table welded, parts shopping going well - Dundee, MI

[GregA]

Hey all, thanks for this amazing resource. I am winding up construction for an automated candle machine(inline container filling a considerably different operation than CNC molded candles). An experience (cutting and grinding with the die grinder) which has reassured me that, yes, I can build a CNC router. I plan to build two (at least!) of these devices. The first one will be a traditional router. The additional pieces will be automated candle robots.

I imagine I will be able to solve all the problems I face, however, I am open to ideas (and consulting fees) for the problems of, wick crimping and cutting, metered mold filling, and pick and place operations for the finished candles.

Anyhow, I expect to place my first order for materials in the next week or so, and will try and present a more or less complete diary of my progress.

Thanks again for the amazing resource!

[driller]

Sounds like an exciting project !

wick crimping, cutting and metered filling don't have to be hard and the pick and place sounds like the really fun part !

Dave

[smreish]

Greg,
Welcome to the "most fun you will have doing real work" in a while. I'll be honest...the day job is getting in the way with my progress! Good luck...we will all be watching.
Sean

[GregA]

Ok just got off the phone with steel supply. The two big 8" pieces of channel will cost me $157, From the phone call, they will miter cut it for "about $20 or something like that".

The three inch channel priced out at $333, I will be cutting that my self. I will find the blade today, and fit it to my old broken down miter saw. I know an abrasive blade will work, but I am wondering about those newer steel cutting blades promising faster and cleaner cuts...

Still need to find a supplier for the steel tube, as I live in the shadow of Detroit I am not expecting much trouble. Perhaps the custom motorcycle shop down the street? ;)

Need to contact my friend with the welding kit, and have a building party this weekend. I wonder if I need to get some co2, beer?

The steel supply place (Salenbien Welding Services 734-529-3280) referred me to a laser cutter (Precision Laser 419-943-4350) who was willing to talk to me. (sometimes they treat me like I am PITA when I ask basic questions) whom I will e-mail the specifications when I return to my office this afternoon. If that doesn't work out I could always buy one of those kits... that are already bent.

Hmmmm... meandering... You are the guy working in a cnc cutting service and a client sends you plans for a cnc machine... How does that make you feel?

Another side thought... Last time I used my drill press it saw service mixing about 20k lbs of resin. So I really need a new drill press. My machine building buddies say skip the drill press, and just get a mill, suffer the old worn out drill press. What do you guys think?

Well my plate is full this week (at least) but I have determined the best drive system for me is the Gecko 202's, and the PMDX-122. I guess I have to select motors and power supply still before I can get my kitchen table simulation working.

Maybe I have pictures of me grinding and welding steel next week!

[Marc Shlaes]

Based on GregJ's statements about the SteelMax saw and blades, I got one. IT IS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cuts through 1/4" (6mm) steel like butter. NO KIDDING. When you are done, the work is cool to the touch. It seems very weird.

[Dirk]

I too had to give a circular steel saw a try. I got lucky and picked up an Evolution 9" saw in almost new condition for 112.00 plus shipping off Ebay. It is very hard to believe how easily it will cut through metal without burrs or heat. Made a believer out of me.
Dirk

[smreish]

If it works that well....maybe you just saved yourself a HUGE grinding step in making the rails. With a few long straight edges, I bet you could cut down the vertical leg to the required height before 45 degree grinding really quick. Now I must go buy one!
Sean

[Marc Shlaes]

Sean,

That is exactly my plan. My advice: GET ONE!

[domino11]

Greg.
I was talking to a company called Precision Laser in Canada. Is that the same outfit you are talking to? Just wondered. They could cut the profiles for me but didnt do any of the bending. Let me know what you find.

[Gerald D]

One of my staff was going to work for a laser/bending company in Canada, http://www.siemenslaser.com/, but the deal fell through. They look too big for this project, but they might be able to refer you to someone else.

[GregA]

How do those new blades work? Would it be possible to fit it to a table saw and cut the angle iron rails directly? I could make that cut in wood all day long on a table saw.

[Alan_c]

Hi Greg

These new blades run at a much slower speed (1500 - 1800 rpm I think) so one would usually have to use the saw machine designed to take those blades. There is nothing stopping you from changing the pulleys on the saw to reduce the speed but those are pretty expensive blades to "experiment" on.

The evolution machines have reduction gearboxes to increase torque and reduce speed.

Al

[Gerald D]

I get very seriously worried when it looks like folk are going to run blades (or router bits) too fast. All tools must be used at the correct speeds - go too fast and those things fly to pieces and kill you.

[GregA]

Noted.

[smreish]

MM fans!
I just got back from the HarborFreight. They now stock a Generic version of the 7.25" steelmax metal cutting saw w/blade for 99 dollars. Add, the 20% off coupon and you have a saw for a pretty good price. I haven't tried it...but for the price, it's worth a try.

Sean

[GregA]

Man, why did you have to go and point me at a catalog with mini mills in it? why? Why? WHY!

Iv'e already allocated all my money to be spent over the next bunch of months!

[Marc Shlaes]

Watch eBay. I got a real SteelMax for 99 bucks!

[WTI]

Greg,

We are about an hour away from you guys. If we can be of any assistance to you please feel free to call us.

There are a few others in the area building the MM too. Maybe we could all go in together on getting the rails ground (which appears to be the hardest part of the whole job).

It's great to find more local people, maybe we will have to start a MM club.

Thanks,

James

[GregA]

I am stalled... for the moment. I received the PITA treatment from precision laser. I have a friend who works in a welding company, he says he will send the parts off with the next that they send in a couple of weeks. I plan on getting started on the table... Well I wanted to work on it last weekend. Maybe I get it going this weekend.

If you need the laser cut parts, let me know. Save a few dollars on shipping.

Also, if you manage to sell or need to move one let me know, I have a panel truck that can hold the mechmate as specified. I even have a winch that we could use to load and unload it up and down the ramps on a couple of dollys.

[GregA]

Man retail and the work that goes on november and december. First stop a metal cutting saw!

[cobra427mnsi]

Hi Greg

I live in Leamington, Ontario, which is about 30 minutes from the bridge. I have just started the process of reading, researching and ordering parts for a MM. Did you ever get your buddy to send in the laser cut files with his next order? I plan on calling four laser cut places, today. They are listed in the Yellow Pages in Windsor. If I get a positive response, I will visit them with the DXF drawings and files for pricing. Will let you know.

Paul

[GregA]

Excellent!

I am back at the beginning (probably a good thing, as my build location has changed)

I have the money, now, so I am going to begin with the more expensive indoor part at this time. The motors and controllers, I have been researching parts today, and will probably be ordering them by the end of week.

[GregA]

Well, I guess that is commitment. I just spent a wad of cash on kitchen table parts. Antek powersupply(are they a real company? they answered phone with "hello?"), gecko drives, and PDMD-122, and am trying to purchase motors from camtronics.

I will purchase everything else locally.

Boy I miss the ease and security of ordering from someone like Amazon...

[GregA]

Fell asleep too early, now awake too early. Guess I'll work on building stuff...

Reading through the threads I found this Link thanks to Gerald: http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.4204/.f

Once I have my initial run parts and am ready to make my my offering to the magic smoke gods I will order the panel and sub panel from there. I hope Gerald doesn't mind, but I will be attempting to replicate his work.

My initial design will be for a router, however I will size the control box to upgrade to a spindle later on.

I am vacillating on my motor selection at the moment, as I can purchase exactly the motor I need from Oriental Motor, without the scary small business internet purchasing requirements.

I am headed to toolsupply today for some parts for the mill.

[Robert M]

Nice to see that your all pump & CHARGED UP !
Good luck on your built & shopping spree
Robert

[GregA]

And here come the motors.

[GregA]

Geckos have shippied as well. Also, even though the sale is over Gecko gave me the discount prices rather than the list prices on their web site.

[cobra427mnsi]

Greg,

I'm excited for you. It's just like a second Christmas. Was the sale price on the Gekos the price listed in the "general" post area ($127.00 US) I am on the verge of ordering stuff. Just haven't made that final leap (commitment) in my mind yet. I dropped the laser cut files off at 5 places now for a price quote. I received one quote back. I sent them the files for the geared motor options including the skate parts plus the 1/4" thick piece that attaches to the grinder for cutting the angle iron down to 1" for a total of 25 pieces. Price was $630.00 Canadian that included the bending. I am not too far from you. If I can help in some way, let me know.

Paul

[GregA]

cobra427mnsi,

Wow, You could give me the phone number of the place that returned your phone call;) That would be awesome! I was getting the PITA treatment everywhere I tried, and was dreading the foot work. Also, I tend to be a hard charger about these things, and if you wanted to show up to a build and tell me not to rush things, that would be very helpful indeed.

Right now it looks like the final installation and build site will be in a warehouse in Toledo. I am arranging for a shield gas welder, for nice spatter free welds. Also there are several other people who will be helping out from time to time, as they are interested as well.

my email is gregalb@gmail.com Drop me an email.

On Edit: The economic situation here is that, I will probably buy all the frame and gantry parts cut to length, as the welding shop where I am ordering materials is willing to cut and deburr them for $20 an hour. I don't think I can do it for that.

[GregA]

PDMD-122 has shipped.

Now if the power supply place was a real company all is good;)

Looks like it is time to start build my extra parts order for the housing, even if I don't order the enclosure yet.

[Roadkill_321]

Greg,

I do believe the power supply place is a real company.:) I had some misgivings at first, but I got it in the mail day before yesterday. It took two weeks to get it up here in Canada in the middle of nowhere from New Jersey but it did in fact come. I had to phone John at Antek to get a tracking number just for some peace of mind, but they did in fact ship it the day after I ordered it. So all the best to ya.

John

[GregA]

Where in the heck do I buy the current set resistors? Does Radio Shack still sell that stort of stuff?

Also... I am at $400 + $100 shipping from factorymation. I see they give free shipping to orders over $500. I have ready Geralds rants about hacks (like me for instance) and would like to correct my ways (only because I like a full set of fingers and a functioning heart). I am currently focused on the Control box, but are there any other safety devices I could order (from factorymation) that I will need later on (man I hate ordering parts I am not going to use yet, but a $100 is a $100).

The top part of my control box will be lain out exactly like geralds example. My din rail will be a little different. I have terminals for power, motor fuses, and a relay for the router. I have a big red stop button that will cut the power to the estop as well as the router. I even have a second control box and associated circutry to replace the mdf board of my existing candle machine controller, and make that nice and professionalish looking.

[Greg J]

GregA,

I actually had to buy mine online at factorymation. The Radioshack in the closest town to where I live (30 miles / 48 KM away) didn't have the size I needed.

If you think this part of the project is fun, wait till you get the stepper motors to operate the first time.

I wonder if Gerald has MechMate pocket protecters for sale ;)

[sailfl]

Yep, we need MM pocket protectors! I like it. Next is our hats and T-Shirts.

I am not joking. I think it is a great idea.

[GregA]

Greg_J

10 year on, and an am still blown away by what an amazing resource the internet is. And this is a blast! 98% of my questions have been answered by just reading around.

Also, looking at the books, because of sales, the metal supply being willing to cut my materials to length, not cutting any corners, It looks like I am on track for a < $4k build. Right now I am at $2k spent, and I have every part I need for the control box. I am so far under budget, (and the fabrication shops are willing to talk to me) I may just hand them the specifications for the table and have them deliver it...

But I am getting ahead of myself;) Right now, just focus on the task at hand;)

[domino11]

Hats and Tshirts are a great idea. Great to wear while working on your MM. :) Dont forget the MM coffee mugs. :)

[sailfl]

I have time on my hands. I will get the approval of the Master Builder and we can go from there.

[Doug_Ford]

Greg A,

Yes, you can get resistors from Radio Shack. That's where I got mine along with about 500 more of assorted resistance that I'll probably never use.:)

I vote for pocket protectors!! My oldest daughter will definitely disown me if I try to wear it outside of the house though. She was seriously upset when she thought I was going to permanently mount those little magnifying lens that attach to your eyeglasses and she already complains that I'm "fashion challenged."

[Gerald D]

T-shirts, caps, mugs are on hold till more MM's are cutting. It has been nearly a year since new machines have come on line - people must be laughing at us for discussing clothing ranges at this stage! :rolleyes:

Right guys, enough of this procrastination and get back to work! :mad::cool::) (where's the slavedriver icon?)

[Gerald D]

Hey guys, pulling your legs a bit, of course you can make up logo'ed merchandise and have fun. :D

Would be happier to see some MM's finished though! :)

[GregA]

If someone wants to make me a MechMateTM coffee cup pattern/relief carving, I can get them mass produced, with glazing and everything. We would have to be able to sell a couple 10's of thousands of them though, before a return;)

[GregA]

On a leap of faith and a drawing verifying that all the bits will fit together, it appears my order has been shipped from Factorymation.

Anyone within two hour drive of me, I will have extra parts, please talk to me before you place factorymation orders for blank fuseblocks and terminal bus parts.

Now to track down some of that dope looking wire bling that gerald uses.

[Gerald D]

Just a note to everyone; these "personal" threads are "owned" by the thread-starter. I have fun with editing the titles from time to time, but that's mostly because the first title becomes obsolete. Because you own your thread, you can ask for any title, post edit or post deletion you want. In the other "technical" threads, I often go back and delete old things said on the spur of the moment a long time ago. You might be trying to build a serious personal thread, and I will assist where I can.

[GregA]

This is the (near) completion of my most recent project and I want to test out picture posting(plus cell phone cameras are forgiving on finish details).

A bunch of years ago, I built a Lumenlab video projector. As much satisfaction as that gave me it really only laster a year and a half. It was the first machine I built by myself. Recently It received an upgrade.

http://lh3.google.com/gregalb/R2LrX6RVhKI/AAAAAAAAAXM/f_hzPHE8Wfk/s144/1212072028.jpghttp://lh5.google.com/gregalb/R2LrYaRVhLI/AAAAAAAAAXU/eZKUiFLa_4A/s144/1212072008.jpg

[cobra427mnsi]

Hi Greg

Could you post a list of parts and part no. for the terminal bus parts, fuse blocks, DIN rails, push buttons, relays (contactors),etc from FactoryMation. You seem to know what you are talking about when it comes to electronics. Obviously, I have no clue.

I would be interested in the extra parts you have, if I had any clue that they would be useful to me.

I'm going to The Rock Financial Center in Novi, probably, today but tomorrow (Thursday-Jan 11)for sure to the Ultimate Fishing Show. How far are you from there?

Thanks
Paul

[GregA]

"You seem to know what you are talking about when it comes to electronics."

Quite possibly the nicest thing anyone has said to me all week;)

I don't have an exact surplus parts list yet. I am rebuilding the control box for my tea light machine. However, here is a copy of my order from factorymation, as well as a description of the parts. Gerald asked us not to post prices...

DIN35S-5135 mm DIN-rail, steel, 1 meter long, 5pcs. - This is the din rail, I will have extra

DIN-ST1DIN Rail Support Bracket, Galvanized Steel, Angled 50mm, package of 10 - These are used to hold the din rail off of the subpanel, extra

SCE-20168ELJ2Saginaw, 20"H x 16"W x 8"D, NEMA 4 Enclosure, Enviroline Junction Box - The big box, will not have extra

SCE-20P16J2Saginaw Enclosure, Subpanel, Steel - White Finish, 19.25"H x 15.25"W, use with Enviroline Junction (ELJ) Enclosure - The subpanel, will not have extra

ES11IMO DIN-Rail Terminal Block, End Bracket, 20pcs, Beige - these hold the terminal blocks together and keep it all nice and tight, I will have extra

EP2.5-101End Plate for all ER2.5 to ER10 Terminal Blocks, Beige, 25 pcs - the terminal and fuse blocks are open on one side this closes it up and keeps it all finger safeish, extra.

ER2.5BEIGE1IMO DIN-Rail Terminal Block, Feed-thru, 20A, 600V, 26 - 12AWG, Beige, 100pcs - you jumper these together to make a buss, way easier to understand than wirenuts all over the place, I will have extra

ERF31IMO DIN-Rail Terminal Block, Removable Fuse-Holder, 5x20mm, 26 - 10AWG, 20pcs, Beige - these are just like the terminal blocks, but they hold fuses, hopefully these will prevent me from burning up electrical components. I plan to add a ground fault fuse, and save my life when vibration knocks a wire free and it shorts on the control box.

BC12WEG 22mm Non-metallic, Mushroom Operator (40mm), IP66, Red - an easier, less safe version of geralds contactor/initiator system. Big red button, connected to two switches, when it is down, the power is off, when it is up the power is on, but that is a function of... (and no extra...)

BC014WEG 22mm Non-metallic, Single Contact Block, 1 N.C. - the switches that go in the big red button, no extra.

861SSR210-DC-11Magnecraft 861 Solid State Relay, DIN Rail or Panel Mount with internal heatsink, 10A SPST, Zero Cross NO, 24-280VAC load range, 3-32VDC Coil, with LED - I think this might be overkill, but this is a relay for the router, this 30 dollar part cost a lot less than the relay built into the breakout board, so I am gonna open and close this relay with the breakout board and turn the router on and off from here. That way if for some reason the router blows up, and burns wire, I just replace this.

And thanks to you I just noticed that I forgot to order the jumpers and ground for my DIN rail, which is now corrected. Ahh the power of open source;)

ERPE2.5/41IMO DIN-Rail Terminal Block, Ground, 26 - 10AWG, 10pcs - This lets me ground the din rail its self, easy and fast.

CC2.5/101IMO Jumper Bar, 10 Pole for 2.5mm Terminal Block, 5pcs - This lets me hook the terminal blocks together and make a nice neat buss, without the need for wire nuts.

Also developing, barking dog, knock at the door, ohhh its a box! No TWO boxes!!!

[GregA]

Not one but two boxes full of motors!

http://lh4.google.com/gregalb/R4YzYIhdjII/AAAAAAAAAZw/vHUFIpqanJ4/s144/0110080956.jpg

[domino11]

Greg,
What supplier did you order the oriental motors from? Do you have a webpage or contact info?

[GregA]

I hard charged on the Oriental Motors. I was talking to another company, but became impatient, and I have a severe bias against running into any resistance when on-line ordering. So I paid full price at the oriental motors website, even though I know I paid about 2x too much...

[GregA]

DO NOT DO THIS!!!!

I should also add, for the extra cheap among you. I realize I can accomplish everything there with assorted sizes of wirenuts. However, I have several projects done that way, and the results will not make you proud no matter how many zip ties you use to try and make it neat and clean. Also I offer a suggestion to simulate the ~eventual~ results you will get from such a system.

DO NOT DO THIS!!!!

Get two butter knives, a dremmel, a drill bit. Drill holes in the handles of the knives. Randomly strip wires from your ~insert expensive component here~ and tie them to the knives. Use the cutting bit on your dremmel to file down the knives so they fit in a standard wall socket. Put a pan of water on the floor, stand in it. Grab the modified knives, one in each hand, and insert them in a standard wall socket.

Trust me, I speak from experience;)

and if you are humor impared, DO NOT DO THIS!!! YOU WILL DIE!

[cobra427mnsi]

Thanks Greg

You are a fountain of knowledge. I appreciate it. I hope I don't bother you too much because I will have more questions later.

I noticed the pic of your motors. Its hard to tell, but they look like direct drive motors as opposed to geared motors.

Paul

[GregA]

Yup, I am going with the weaker slower system.

[Gerald D]

"Wirenuts" are forbidden! (that should be in the rules somewhere)

http://www.inspect-ny.com/aluminum/fr1-hotbox.jpg

[GregA]

Ok, I need to head off to tool and supply, but I was looking at the PLC's they have available at factorymation. Anyone know if store, load and run gcode software is available for those that works with the gecko drives?

On Edit: spend no time on this, I am procrastinating doing my real job. Just yes or no if you have an answer...

[TheDave]

GregA,

I'm a real newbie here, still just lurking and trying to decide how to convince the wife I need to build a MechMate.

But I noticed you said you're building in a warehouse in Toledo. I live in Toledo, and it turns out I spent about 6 years working in a Fab shop. I can help out with the welding if you want. The chance for me to see your machine and ask you all kinds of questions would be a great experience for me. Let me know if you're interested.

[GregA]

TheDave,

Done, and if it helps your marriage, for the first year at least... I will not be able to operate it full time. If you help me build it, you are more than welcome to use it any time you want( its in a warehouse so really even 3am will work ). I plan on fabricating as soon as I finish the simulator, and make the motors turn. This is entirely new to me as well, so I am having a rough time estimating the ETA(but three weeks sounds good in my mind for some reason). My email is gregalb@gmail.com

[GregA]

More boxes!

And their contents:
http://lh3.google.com/gregalb/R4eInohdjJI/AAAAAAAAAaQ/nTVLb89Osio/s144/0111081013.jpghttp://lh5.google.com/gregalb/R4eIoIhdjKI/AAAAAAAAAaY/IWz3crrR5kA/s144/0111080953.jpg

[GregA]

So it looks like I have enough to get started. However, I am gonna need a hole saw. More blog twitter to follow!

[GregA]

Also... From my day job, I need to buy a sample web page from a half a dozen or so web designers. The final project will need to be an integrated shopping cart (with both customer facing and interal management aspects)...

I realize it it a little off topic here, but if anyone would like to bid, please let me know, my email is gregalb@gmail.com

[GregA]

Yay!!! More boxes today. First is from another project, mail order bolts...

Who knew that 5/8-18 x 1.5" fully threaded bolts were a specialty item? I guess that exposes my lack of experience. Will never make a machine that requires that dimension/thread-count of bolt ever again... These suckers are not available in your local hardware store...

http://lh5.google.com/gregalb/R4ueSIhdjLI/AAAAAAAAAa4/JLiYYnbuoSw/s144/0114081019.jpg

Second the Gecko drives have landed!! Hey look at that they even gave me a little plushie gecko;)

http://lh6.google.com/gregalb/R4ueSYhdjMI/AAAAAAAAAbA/aHmiX2iPHYY/s144/0114081013.jpg

Finally, got some odds and ends from factorymation. A bag of ground terminals, and some jumpers. So completely uninteresting I will not bother posting a cell phone pic.

So today I will try and pick up a hunk of aluminum, some standoffs to hold the hunk of aluminum, and a bunch of screws to hold it all together. Perhaps I am days away from a finishedish looking control box, and Mach3 test?

[astarguy]

Hi all, Gerald i just noticed your picture of your burned junction box and if it will help i would like to provide some advice even if it wasn't ask for. i noticed that the wires were not twisted before the wire nuts were installed. this is a big no no. they must be tightly twisted together to ensure they make good connection. the wire nut is only there to cover the bare wires not to hold them together. secondly i see that 3 different sizes of nut were used (they are color coded for size) look at the back of the box to see what wire size and the number of wires that each nut is used for. thirdly i don't see a ground wire for the box itself that is important in some applications so that if there is a short inside of the box it doesn't energize anything. sorry if i am stepping on toes here but safety is #1 for me.

[revved_up]

Antek has made power supplies for computers for years. I'm in Michigan also and would be really interested in any more information for local companies that can supply the metal work and or parts suppliers. This is actually my first day on this forum and my first post, about to give it up for the night as I have been reading this for too many hours now and need to let some of it sink in before I take in anymore.

**edit: Told you it was a long night lol just realised I wasnt even at the end of the thread b4 I posted and now I humbly bow out for the night to rest my brain **end of edit.

[Gerald D]

Astarguy, the message is simple; Do NOT use wirenuts on the MM. (as per the note above that photo). The correct vs incorrect ways of using wirenuts is irrelevant....there is just no way. Period.

[GregA]

Speaking with a process engineer yesterday. It looks like I will be using an initiator/contactor system in my control box. It seems that with a spinning blade hooked to motors that move it around, it is basically a required safety component, and OSHA will red flag the machine if it doesn't have one...

Also, I had a third industrial machine added to my todo list yesterday. An inline bottle filler, with integrated capping, washing and side labeling. I have filling and labeling worked out. Can anyone give me a heads up on where to buy inline washing and capping components?

[GregA]

Gerald,

Two huge favors to ask of you.

First, could you point out the part number I need for a factorymation cut off switch for my control panel?

Second, it is bitter cold here in Michigan today(and supposed to get colder), and as I understand it is summer down there, can I um, come and visit?

[GregA]

Well, UPS o'clock has come and gone, no UPS truck. Time to head out and get some things done...

[sailfl]

Greg,

I believe this is the one you are looking for:

KSR3.40 ENSTO Rotary Load Break Disconnect Switch, 3 Pole, 600V, 40A

Hope that helps.

Where did you buy your wire?

[GregA]

http://lh6.google.com/gregalb/R40at4hdjNI/AAAAAAAAAbg/Vk-c_T1gTwo/s144/0115081530.jpg

A little bit of progress;)

That is the part I ended up with. Although I had to order several other parts to complete the assembly. Also... The process engineer wanted me to put in a two stage start. So I also ordered a relay and drew a circuit that "latches" the whole thing to a relay... Also, I added a light bulb, so it will be apparent when it is on. So on my control panel, I will have to both turn the switch to on, and press a button. I was contemplating an off light as well, so that it is apparent when it is off.

Wire (so far) was just purchased from local hardware. I was advised against bundling wire within the control box.

On Edit: Bonus kudos if you can see the mistake I made.

[smreish]

Greg,
I purchased a combo on/off button with an internal light from FactoryMation. MOM on/MOM off....so you have to turn disconnect, then on.
Greg, the pictures so small, I can't see anything from here in florida where it's warm ;)
Sean

[GregA]

I am contemplating posing a bigger picture, but it is from my cell phone camera... And I am just not sure you are missing any detail.

Anyhow, the heat sink covers the screws on the side of the subpanel...

[GregA]

I had to leave house today before UPS o'clock, and I am wondering if my pmdx-122 board will be there when I get home;( My fancy on/off swicth parts should be here tomorrow. Woo hoo I shoud have assembled control box by this weekend.

[GregA]

Heheheh. Whoops. The PMDX-122 shipped the day I ordered it. Only it shipped USPS, as opposed to UPS. So it sat in my mailbox for a week;)

Anyhow, it is now safely installed in my controll box. Didn't take a picture because I am in a hurry. Tomorrow morning at 10ish I should get my fancy power switch, and I will prepair to start wiring all the little bits together.

So maybe I will run a simulation next week?

[GregA]

Spent all afternoon wiring bits together. Was getting ready to crimp the power supply leads to the main bus, and noticed... Woah, they are using wires a lot larger than mine. Run off to the hardware to get right wire, Doh! they are closed. Just a tiny bit is affected, should be small problem to put the right wire in.

Just checked the tables, I should be well within tolerance, however I will stick to the convention that Antek used when designing their power supply.

Still need holes in front and bottom on panel.

I did have one compromise in wiring. The switch I use to jump start the initiator relay will have to be doubled in one lead of the cutoff switch

[GregA]

http://lh6.google.com/gregalb/R5IOkohdjPI/AAAAAAAAAcg/biHdfVWBrog/s400/0119080943.jpg

A few little odds and ends need to be finished. USB power supply, butt crimp the power supply, holes in the panel box for mounted switches. Current limiting resistors. (I am working on first cup of coffee at moment, I'm sure more will come to me when I finish it.)

I have some time on machine tool today. Going to exploit that, will get back to this, this evening.

Second compromise found. Either I have to move the disconnect switch around, or I have to place the sub-panel in box upside down.

Otherwise all is working good, continuity test shows all my connections are sound, I will spend a couple hours re-groking all my work before I plug it for the first time, and double check all my work.

[Greg J]

Greg,

Nice work. Is there a fan under those Gecko's?

[J.R. Hatcher]

If you have not drilled any holes in the outside of the box yet flip it over, in other words the door will open from the other side and the inside panel will stay like it is.

[GregA]

Greg_J,

No fan for now. My computed current is under the requirement (I will use 2 amps, geckos don't call for even a heat sink under 3 amps) of the Gecko's, I figured I would retrofit it if I ended up needing it. Also, in my search for the heat sink, I found a piece of aluminum that was over the top thick (not the one pictured) and Ive always wanted an excuse to machine cooling fins into something;) because of the enclosed nature of the control box, I think that would actually work better than a fan...

J.R. Hatcher,

I am considering that. However that would be one of those "but I would know it is there" craftsmanship issues. I am going to sit on it for a while and make a decision later, before I jump in and start changing things. I still have plenty to do before I commit one way or another.

[smreish]

Greg,
You will definitely need to rotate the panel 180 degree's to make that rotary switch work. I almost had the same problem, but was luckily *just* far enough from the hinge to make the swing arc.
Since you haven't bored any holes in the outside cabinet, it should be really easy to do. Plus, when you rotate the panel, you will have the ground strap and lugs on the door at the bottom...which I used as a nice path to take my connections to the door. That way I had a nice strain relief to tie the bundle up to.

[Gerald D]

This must surely be the record time in which a control box is being assembled! :)

[smreish]

Gerald,
Greg has an almost mechanically completed machine....I can see the motivation in his typing :)
Now I know why you suggest you build the controller first :D

[GregA]

Gerald,

Only thanks to your website, made the whole thing a insert tab A into slot B type affair. But then, I don't call tech support when I am assembling Ikea furniture;)

On Edit: Did I mention I live in a urban area, and I walk next door to a crazy provisioned hardware store as well?

[Gerald D]

Sean, I think you have your Gregs mixed up....or do I have it wrong?

[smreish]

:p....Oh yeah, sorry Greg and Gerald....
This diaper changing and lack - o -sleep is getting me all confused.
...I miss the smell of freshly ground steel vee rail in the morning.
Sean

[GregA]

http://lh5.google.com/gregalb/R5QRJ4hdjRI/AAAAAAAAAdI/8Q85V_4WCvI/s400/0120082205.jpghttp://lh3.google.com/gregalb/R5QRJYhdjQI/AAAAAAAAAdA/0SmdOz_G27w/s400/0120082204.jpg

All done but for the 5 volt power supply to the PMDX-122 and the current setting resistors. Fully re-groked. Probably do a continuity test one more time before I feed it power. But for the holes on the bottom of the panel, I should never need to disassemble this again:D

[GregA]

Well I did not make it to a test this week:( Tomorrow morning, I receive materials and I go out in the field for a week. I will only be able to check in for laser cut parts updates. I don't think the control box would be happy to ride in the vibrations in the back of my car with all the thermal shocks. Oh well, I will take the opportunity to tour various Radio Shack retail stores and look for a range of resistors to work with. Also, that will give me an evening in some hotel somewhere to disect a USB cable and run the polarity test I have been meaning to do.

On the other hand, I got to purchase a very swanky machine enclosure from 80/20 yesterday:D Also, met a process engineer who is very interested in my activities.

And... Just another reminder... I got bit by being cheap... I was trying to machine some fittings in steel instead of brass, and after about a week of effort of making precision fittings in bolt steel, I broke down and purchased brass today... The upside I guess is my collection of carbide tools should cut through brass like butter.

[GregA]

Received quote to have base table fabricated to 1/16th of an inch precision, and painted. Build quality would be far in excess of what I would be capable. And they would deliver it on crate that I could just fork off of their truck, and move it into place, next week...

Dang and the price is... low enough that I am tempted, and high enough that I don't really want to pay that much... But then my activities could be directed to areas that I enjoy, and I could start grinding x-rails next week.

Once again, I will not post actual quotes per forum rules, but It is looking like the build cost will be several thousand dollars less than a shopbot PRS if you were to outsource all the fabrication in the midwest.

On Edit: Anyword anywhere on a laser cut part group buy? Also, the research for this post confirms it, I am gonna order the fabrication.

[revved_up]

Greg, who did you get a quote from on the base table? are they going to grind the rails also? I may be interested in contacting them for a quote also.

[GregA]

Salenbien Welding, in Dundee Michigan.

I suspect about a $100 of the price I told you was delivery though...

[revved_up]

Thanks, I may check them out thought it might be easier to drive 45 min to them since they allready know whats being built then to explain it to somebody new.

[GregA]

Nothing, nada nix. Spent all day yesterday battling tech support personel (business software package) that presumed I was an ignorant no nothing luser. For that particular project, I am now a day behind. I am smelling failure, man I hate that smell. Fired off a nasty email, documenting why their software sucks. Wish I was doing something fun.

[GregA]

Yay!! Software problems fixed. Now I get to go install the hardware only two days behind. Hope I can finish this up before I receive a machine enclosure (Candle machine #1) on Wednesday. On Monday, I have to pick up the fill nozzles/valves from the replacement machinist. That means I can work on a mechmate simulation test, all day Tuesday!!

Also, ordered the table from the fabricators today(I needed something to cheer me up after that last post, wow that was dark). Next up on procurement is Laser cut parts.... Sean, you there?

[GregA]

revved_up,

Make sure you stop by my store (Swan Creek Candle) if you drive to Dundee;) I don't have extra materials anymore... Since it looks like I am rebuilding the control interface for a filling machine, and replacing it with solenoid operated valves from the pneumatically operated system that is currently in place...

[revved_up]

LOL my wife was wondering if you were Swan Creek, She has some of your candles and when I told her of your post she wants to go for sure! This might be the first step in her acceptance of this obsession. She says I have been talking MechMate in my sleep lately LOL.

[GregA]

Woo hoo, all projects are back on track. UPS o'clock with a few more parts on the way. Fuses for the test.

Still need... Laser Cut Parts. Have about 2.5 weeks before my table arrives, so nothing to do with laser cut parts until then but...

I guess I could start preparing the area where my table will live. I am gonna need a whole bunch of conduit. Hmmm, a conduit bender is probably best found in a pawn shop. I wonder if I go by any pawn shops today?

So, I do my simulation test tomorrow, then I start setting up my workshop.

[GregA]

Small Little Update;)

http://lh5.google.com/gregalb/R6dzOl63aLI/AAAAAAAAAdo/uYKoNLqG2i4/s800/table1.jpg

[Gerald D]

Be careful with that lighter 10 10 306 S. Tempting to stack stuff on there and it could bend down (pulling legs in, x-rails out). To go lighter there is fine for the table itself, just have to remember it is not for stacking or standing. If that makes you nervous, weld a thinnish vertical in the center, up to the nearest table cross bearer 10 10 302.

Your QA checks before it leaves the contractor's shop:
1. Are the cross-supports offset by about 4" to one end of the table?
2. Sight over the tops of the beams from the side and check that the table is not twisted (it should twist a little under its own weight, but it shouldn't be far out to start with)
3. Check across the table with a tape measure for the dimension at top right corner of drawing 10 10 300 W. It should be parallel within about 1/8", or whatever tolerance the contractor gave you at the start.
4. Sight down the length of each beam to see if they are still fairly straight.

They didn't drill the holes for the spoilboard?

[GregA]

Back from welding supply for another part

#1. Check
#2. Straight within the precision of my eyesight
#3. Was surprised, but within the precision of the tape measure I was using, table is dead on square.
#4. Once again, within the precision of my eyesight, totally straight, level and square.

Per holes... I asked to drill holes, (I was thinking rails...) and that decision has had repercussions. I am thinking chalk line and tape measure and elbow grease at this point...

[Gerald D]

Sounds like you found a good welding shop! Congratulations! :)

[GregA]

Yeah, let me give another plug for Selders Welding in Dundee Michigan. For my other activities, I drop off a drawing, I come back in the morning the next day, never pay more than $10 to $20 for the part. Since I found them from the table search, Ive use them probably 10 times now. Fast, good cheap work every time.

Next step is the paint.

[Doug_Ford]

Looks great Greg. Are you going to tackle welding the gantry and car?

[GregA]

Well the next thing is gettig the table into the shop(the door is tall and narrow, so I am thinking fork table off of truck to door. Flip onto side on dollys, through door, then rll the dollys into final position with a safety spotter so I don't crush myself) And start setting up a work area to grind rails. But before I can move onto the gantry, I need to procure some laser cut parts... Yesterday I located a place to rent a magnetic dril press...

Right now I am doing things on it that are big and well defined because I just crossed the "now i have to do a million little things threshold" on another project... So I can currently make progress... on a jig to grind rails, procuring laser cut parts, setting up shop area.

On the other hand, the people financing the other project are starting to notice this one and are talking about financing me (I am financing this one as a router) to make several mech mates as candle machines. Rather than router on head, several tools for candle making...

And if that is the case I will need much more melted wax supply than I currently have, and will need to go back into hot wax plumbing, but on a much larger scale for this facility...

...

That is out of order, because I was up really late last night because the candle machine functioned the first time without dripping;) (at all!)

...

Time to drink coffee BBL.

...

P.S. Welding shop did a really nice job on my heated tank filling head, but I need to drill and tap own holes on next machine because as nice a job as they the tapped holes are all out of plumb by multiple thousandths and I have had to work around that for a while.

So I guess to answer Doug Fords question... My money supply is greater than my time so I will probably outsource the gantry and car welding as well. On the other hand I am still getting blank stares (previously referred to as the PITA treatment) when I talk about outsourcing rail grinding.


On Edit: On edit... I is really easy to sit here for an hour and a half planning day...

[Doug_Ford]

It must be a wonderful feeling to have more money than time. My wife has always endeavored to ensure that I am short of both.:)

[GregA]

Doug_Ford,

Small business is all grown up;) Approaching 20 million annual sales:D (I get big money get to keep little money;) ) (sigh another aside... I am at a level where a million dollar increase in sales year over year is no longer good news...) At this level if you don't spend it the government takes it from you. Unfortunately you still have an employer, his name is Uncle Sam. As he doesn't seem to give much of a damn how I spend my time, as long as I send him his cut, I wouldn't have it any other way.

I am a regular overnight success after 15 years of working my ass off...

Also... With all these laser cutting firms turning away $500-$1000 dollar jobs I am starting to wonder if I am in the wrong business, and if I shouldn't be looking at the laser cutting business... Generally I am all over the $500 to $1000 dollar jobs... What are they doing that they don't call back the people with finished part files wanting to spend a $1000???

[domino11]

Greg,
I too have seen many laser firms turn down a $500 job, or quote me $1500 or $2000 so that if they got the work, it would be worth their while. Guess they are too busy for my work. :(

[GregA]

Domino11,

A few months ago, I started making the Mechmate part files into emachineshop files... Couple thousand dollars at least.

If anyone wants the work I started I will email them to you... but...

[cobra427mnsi]

I just picked up my laser parts today from the laser cutter . He doesn't do bending just laser cutting, so I will have to take them to another shop, that I have already contacted, to have the parts bent. The mamba parts including the the rail grinding skate and the mini grinder jig for cutting the angle to size (a total of 25 pcs) cost $220.00. I had him run 2 sets for me because they were so cheap. Who knows, I'm having so much fun, maybe I'll built more MechMates. He said he would do more sets, no problem. Hope to get the bending done, next week, for less than $75.00. We'll see.

Paul

[domino11]

Domino11,

A few months ago, I started making the Mechmate part files into emachineshop files... Couple thousand dollars at least.

If anyone wants the work I started I will email them to you... but...

Greg,
Not sure what you mean here. Could you elaborate? I was just comenting on the lack of interest in small jobs.

Heath.

[GregA]

http://www.emachineshop.com/

Download their proprietary cad program. Make your part file. Hit the request a quote button. Wow, look at those prices...

[domino11]

Greg,
Thanks, I didnt realize it was an online machine shop. :o Thanks for the link. Dont think I will shop there though. :)

[cobra427mnsi]

Greg
Is the shop, where you are getting your table made, capable of bending up to 1/4" steel? If so, I could probably have the laser cut parts made here, in Canada ,and you could have them bent in MI. I could meet you somewhere near the bridge to make the transfer or I could ship them to you. I don't know how much the shipping would be (or customs/duty) but, if you have no other way of getting the laser parts, it is a possibility. The cost $220.00 Cdn. for mamba parts unbent.

Paul

[GregA]

cobra427mnsi,

Yes, I think (assume) they could, I will talk to them about it today(and end the assumption). I had them build me a motor mount bracket the other day that was 3/16ths. But I will verify.

[revved_up]

I still haven't checked with commerce industries yet because I was waiting on hearing about the parts from Alabama also but they have a website at commerceindustries.com and they are here in Michigan in Wixom.