Second Mechmate OC 12'x6'x12"

[litemover]

Hey all,

Well, I'm back in LA, technically Orange County for a bit, and as I promised, I am going to start building a new Mechmate for my time when I am stateside building sets.

This particular machine is based off my last one, except a tad bit smaller length, but a bit wider width. 12'x6', on 8" Channel. It's a bolt together machine again. I've not ordered parts yet, but am about to start.

It's going to be a rigorous schedule but should be pretty productive seeing as how I have just finished my machine in New Zealand and have a few guys to help.

Cheers,
Chris

[darren salyer]

Sweet. I'll be watching with interest. Good Luck!!

[smreish]

When you get back to Auckland, fellow #5 builder LEKO is in your neighborhood this year. He too is the movie set building business.

[litemover]

Well the build has begun.

Metal delivery, except main beams, which are coming tomorrow. Most stuff has been drilled or marked today. I'm thinking of doing a Ball screw Zslide this time, does anyone have a plan for that? Guess I could whip one up real quick.

Anyhoo, I've procured a great team of crafty guys helping me.

Cheers,
Chris

http://s7.postimg.org/47e62jcfv/9883...67342622_n.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[litemover]

Well, the first channel came, and was kinked so i sent it back. It was really bad. The next is coming tomorrow. I had to order 10" channel, because the channel here in America is too short on the flange. So it wouldn't mate up to my 3" leg pieces.

All my parts are ordered and trickling in.
went with PK296 B2a SG 7.2 again.
For a BOB, instead of the PMDX products, I opted to try a new Korean bob with 6 axis control, several relays, and ESS support. The board arrived today and looks very clean.

Went with a 600VA PS. Toroidal again, same voltage as my last machine 40, just more amps for one more driver when I expand.
Gecko G203v x4
3kw Chinese Water cooled spindle from Qlandingsatisfaction on ebay. The thing came today, it's huge! He's very reliable and quick.
Went with 16GA wire 4 core for my main wire.
Echain from Chai which is arriving tomorrow, again very reliable.
Control stuff from Automation Direct.
All good stuff, quality machine, very excited. Nearly all holes are drilled, all cuts are finished, Welding begins tomorrow. Well on schedule.

Next week, Table final assembly, and Electrical. I plan to have it finished by end of next week.

Cheers,
Chris
http://s18.postimg.org/9135qfge1/IMG_2336.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

http://s18.postimg.org/5wshtmzll/IMG_2337.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

http://s18.postimg.org/6xsqirgl5/IMG_2338.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[darren salyer]

Impressive schedule. I'm in the preliminary stages of a second machine myself, but don't think I could build that fast.
How about a review of the BOB after you've used it a bit?

[smreish]

For the well sorted about machine build, it really only takes about 2 weeks if you have all the stuff in a pile. Great to see you making progress.

Cheers.

[litemover]

Thanks guys,

My goal is to finish the machine before Mike updates this thread to the construction started but not yet cutting yet forum :p. I had a bit of difficulty with my Ycar this time because it was a tad bent, so the roller mount parts didn't line up right and for some reason during welding 2 of the roller holes lost square by 1/8 inch, as in one hole is higher than the other. I'm thinking of grinding out 2 slot welds to correct it as I've not yet turned over to weld the other side yet. Any ideas? Haven't seen what the roller adjustment slot is but I'm sure I'll find it. Is this a slot that is in the hole?

The rest of the build is cake. Second time around is definitely easier.

Here are some pics. I have a great crew helping me. 5 people make it go fast. Very fast. The build will be finished this friday, or sat. It will only be primed but that is ok.

Thanks,
Chris
http://s15.postimg.org/arhv5du9j/IMG_2339.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/arhv5du9j/) http://s15.postimg.org/ljau6qkc7/IMG_2342.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/ljau6qkc7/) http://s15.postimg.org/4vnxhzeyf/IMG_2344.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/4vnxhzeyf/)

http://s15.postimg.org/va85wpit3/IMG_2346.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/va85wpit3/) http://s15.postimg.org/84xrapdo7/IMG_2348.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/84xrapdo7/) http://s15.postimg.org/tijsfjotz/IMG_2353.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/tijsfjotz/)

http://s15.postimg.org/v6ixu72pj/IMG_2356.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/v6ixu72pj/)

[Tom Ayres]

I'm pathetic, you're about to finish your second in the time I turn around:o But this is good news for you, hope you don't run into anymore snags.

[MetalHead]

:p

Where did you source your laser cut and bent parts?

[litemover]

I had a local company do it for me in Santa Ana. there are a lot of Laser part places here.

Anyhoo, I'm wiring up the machine now, and have stumbled across a bit of a question. I think I may know the answer, but wanted to confirm prior to melting anything...

My toroidal has two primaries, it's a 625va toroidal. Do I wire them in Parallel, or series? The wires are blue and grey for one side, and Vio and brown for the other.

The other question I had is my motor output only has Stp+, Stp-, and Dir+ Dir- and I'm using G203V which take Dir, Step, Common. Where do I pull the common from the BOB, the Gnd?

Thanks!
Chris

[domino11]

Are the primaries 120V each? If so then if you are using 120V in then parallel, If 240V in then you would want them in series. Make sure to get the phase of the primaries correct.

[litemover]

Hey Heath, the primaries are 120v each. I was just going to wire them parallel but wanted to make sure. It's in order from top to bottom:

Blue
Grey

Violet
Brown

So just to make sure, it's blue to violet and grey to brown?

Thanks

[domino11]

That sounds right, do you have a datasheet for the transformer to be sure?
Or do they show a schematic on the label? parallel would be for 120V source.

[litemover]

Yeah it's as follows:

Blue 120v
Grey 0

Violet 120v
Brown 0

Thanks Heath!
Chris

[litemover]

Ok, I'm having some difficulty with this power supply. For some reason, when I rectify the output of the secondaries, I am definitely getting the same voltage as the AC side (30v), actually 29.8vdc, and I should be getting 42vdc (1.41x). Then when I plug in the caps, which are wired in parallel they are frying the rectifier. The caps are charging up though. Could this be because my primaries are out of phase or something?

Here are the photos.

Thanks in advance for any help.
Chris

http://s17.postimg.org/v2m52077j/IMG_2365.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/x76i338u3/full/)

http://s17.postimg.org/j8ee4d8xr/IMG_2366.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/xrlj5s22j/full/)

http://s17.postimg.org/xxz88vb7j/IMG_2367.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/p2ydycmez/full/)


image hosting over 2mb (http://postimage.org/)

[KenC]

What is the AC voltage before you plug in the rectifier bridge? Probably a defect rectifier, rare occasion, but it does happen.

[litemover]

its 30v ac, tried with 3 rectifiers, same output, 30v.

[racedirector]

Chris, what is the white wire? It looks to be connecting the 2 sets together? You should only have (according to the transformer) violet+blue and brown+grey connected to either side of the rectifer - well that how I understand primaries in parallel.

[zumergido]

do you have 30vac on the black red? or orange yellow?
that wiring look fine to me. is rare to see a problem on a "profeccional" transformer this days.

btw.. huge tansformer you can power two mechmates with that..

[Mrayhursh]

wow I envy the shop space

[litemover]

Hi Guys, Thanks for the response. We still have not figured it out. There is some problem, but not sure what yet. The transformer is 620v a, 30v. 2 primaries at 120v, and 2 secondaries at 30v 10.25a ea. I wanted to get something bigger because I want to add some more axis later.

Anyhow, The white wires are just ac in from the wall as we are testing outside of the control panel.

I haven't yet tested to see if I have 30v on each of the black and red, orange and yellow yet. I suppose half the transformer could be bad and that could account for the loss after rectification. But isn't it rare for the transformer to be bad?

We managed to get another rectifier and the figured that the caps must be shorted somewhere, or not big enough, or something. Not sure, but every time we plug the caps in it fries the rectifier. Any thoughts on this? Today I'm going to get some new caps. A bunch of smaller ones as I can't find bigger ones anywhere in Socal.

Any more suggestions? Thanks for any help on this guys.
Chris

[Mrayhursh]

What line of work are you in?

[litemover]

I do production design and fabrication.

[KenC]

Are you sure you have your rectifier rating correct?

[domino11]

Chris,
Some stuff to check
Do you have the AC secondaries going to the AC side of the bridge?
Also are you connecting the caps after the transformer is powered up?
I would have them connected first before powerup.
Your wiring of the transformer looks fine. You could also use just one secondary for testing,
that would give you lower amps. What is the rating of the bridge in amps? There will be a
lot of inrush current to charge the caps when the transformer is first powered.
What voltage rating is on the caps?

Not sure here, but I think you may have your caps wired in reverse?
Hard to tell from the pics, but the lite blue wire looks to be going to
a white stripe on the caps, that is usually (but not always) the negative side?
It looked to be going to the pos side of the rectifier.
Again check this as its hard to tell in the pics.

[litemover]

Hi Guys,

We've had it wired up exactly correct and the way that you've told us, once with a 50amp rectifier which blew, then another 50 amp, then a 25 amp. White strip on the caps wired to negative. I think it's possible that the soldering iron was too hot and shorted out one of the caps, dunno.

One detail, the caps are charging up and we're getting a big spark. I just think that the caps are smaller than what they say and mislabeled. They say 63v but are about 1.3rd the size of my 63v caps in Auckland.

I'm getting new caps tomorrow. Will update you for sure then. Thanks again for all the help.
Cheers,
Chris

[litemover]

Ok, we've taken the toroidal wires out and tested the secondaries and they both output 30v ea, so that was not the issue. I plugged in one secondary only into the rectifier and I'm still only getting 1 to 1 on voltage out of the rectifier. So 30vAC in and 29.8vDC out. I can't figure out why this is except that maybe the manufacture of this particular rectifier just doesn't work or is backward or something.

Just to confirm, on the AC side of the rectifier, it does not matter if I hook Neutral or Hot to either correct?
Chris

[bradm]

It is correct that the wiring on the AC side of the rectifier can go either way.

Can you post a photo focused in on the wiring to the rectifier? We can't verify that it is correct.

Also, are there any possible signal paths through that metal mount? How are the capacitors attached? Is the metal case of the rectifier connected to any of its pins?

Does the problem still occur if you get rid of the metal mount and have everything just lying on the table top?

You don't want to connect the caps with the power on. You're gonna get arcing, and ugly spikes that the rectifier won't like.

[parrulho]

All your connections looks good to me but looking at the photos, the metal disc between the toroid and capacitors is too big and can be touching the bracket on bottom. if it's the case you have a short and you are lucky that the transformer is still working. take a look at this post: http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50

[litemover]

Hey Paulo,

Thanks for the advice on that but it is not that that is the problem. In an attempt, I sawed off the extra flap to make sure. There is nothing touching the chassis from the other side. I'm also for sure getting 30vac out of both secondaries.

I think the problem is that in the US, from the sources I've been going, all they have are half wave rectifiers, yet they say they are full wave. Would that make any difference?

When I rectify, I'm only getting 30VDC out of a 30vAC source. I should be getting 42.5vdc. Pulling my hair out!
Chris

[jask]

its 30v ac, tried with 3 rectifiers, same output, 30v.

are you measuring that voltage with or without the caps? I think your ripple current is overwhelming your capacitors. if they have arced they may already be damaged.
Have a look at this thread ( post #8 )
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3692&highlight=rectifier

[parrulho]

All bridge rectifiers are the same: 4 diodes inside and full wave is rectified. I can't see if the connections on bridge are correct, the AC part can be reversed but not the other part. the way you connect the capacitors, your positive is black and negative is green? (black is normally negative on DC). be careful on that if the polarity on capacitors is reversed for long time they can explode.

Positive on bridge must go to positive on capacitors.

i'm sorry if it seems to primary...

[MetalHead]

I see 4 wires going to your rectifier from the transformer. Are you sure you do not have a dual output transformer?(yes) Where each pair is 30v?

I think this tranformer could do 2 30 volt or one 60 volt if wired series on the output?

Also I agree those caps look small.

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4057

[MetalHead]

Specs on that transformer

If your looking for 60 volts out of that transformer you will need to have it wired series I would think not parallel.

[MetalHead]

What motors are you going to run?

[MetalHead]

I am slowly answering my own questions as the coffee kicks in :) !!!

Is your input voltage 115 or 220?

[litemover]

Hi Mike,

My input voltage is 120vac. I parred up the primaries. I could unpair them and hook them into 240 and check. I've done everything else, I am still not getting 1.41x my AC voltage... It's the Avel 620VA Toroidal.

I'm only needing the 30v but 20 amps as I want to mount another spindle/plasma later and 4th axis.

Chris

[MetalHead]

You may have your input hot (120) on the wrong pairs according to the spec sheet. Also make sure your wall plug is wired correctly. In the US most neutrals as also ground and a commen mistake at the outlet is to switch the wires.

[litemover]

I forgot to mention, my machine build is entirely complete.:D

Control Box Complete, everything is complete except one thing. My motor power supply!:(

So hopefully, I can figure this out so I can get it all moving.

I will post pics after I get some sleep.
Chris

[smreish]

...Chris is trying to break my record build time :)

[jask]

Chris your output on the rectifier is fine. please read the link I posted above- you are seeing 30 VDC @120hz

you said: When I rectify, I'm only getting 30VDC out of a 30vAC source. I should be getting 42.5vdc. Pulling my hair out!
Chris
Richards said: ( in the above link...): Depending on the meter that you used, without the capacitors, you would get about 50VDC from a 50VAC transformer because the meter would "see" 120 positive "cycles" per second, assuming North American power source. If you switched the meter to AC, it would show the RMS (Root Mean Square) value of the "ripple", which would be 1/(sqrt 2) or 0.7071 X the peak to peak AC voltage. Many meters, on the DC setting, will also show the "average" DC voltage. However, if you used an oscilloscope, you would see that the sine wave was actually 71 Volts, peak to peak.

After the capacitors are installed, almost all of the ripple is eliminated, and a DC meter will read the voltage as 71VDC.

The input and output pairs are fine- the dot you see on the wiring diagram indicates the start of each winding.
What is the value of the capacitors you have?

[litemover]

Thanks John for the advice,

That's a bit reassuring and I'll try it out. I managed to find the bad cap and just hook up the good one. There must be a lot of ripple because after going out of that, it still read 30vdc. I ordered a cap from Digikey, but it won't be here till wed and the local supply companies only have 3300mf. I'm thinking of buying a few of those and wiring them in just to get this thing working.

Aside from that, I'm relieved that is the only thing left for me to do. Well, Paint and logos, but that won't be for a while as I have to start cutting. So don't worry Sean, I won't be breaking any records, but I will be cutting:)

Again thanks for the help guys. I'm crossing my fingers that it is the problem and we can work it out. I'm going to add inline, 2 more caps at 3300mf @ 63v until my new caps come from Digikey.

Cheers,
Chris.

[jask]

AH HA!!! how did you come up with your capacitor value?:)

[litemover]

Ok, well. It's working. You were right John about the caps smoothing out enough to see it. Maybe when I was in NZ and on a 50hz grid my meter could pick up on the unsmoothed DC. That was what was confusing me.

My caps value is 30000mf, 63v. Should cover it I hope.

So now everything is working and I'm about to plug it all in and have a go. Crossing fingers :)

Will post photos tonight if I get back early enough. Thanks everyone for the advice, would've been chasing my tail still had it not been for you guy.

Cheers,
Chris

[litemover]

Just got back from the warehouse. Not sure what is going on but my VFD is not working, the electrician just finished wiring up the VFD, but I think he must have wired it 208 because I'm only getting 120v per leg. Hope he didn't damage the VFD. Will try again tomorrow.

All axis are moving fine, spindle is mounted and ready to go. Just missing the VFD.... It's a 3ph VFD> Same ABB as I own in Auckland.

Chris

[Mrayhursh]

208 volts is a combination of two 110 volt legs. There are out of phase so when added together you get the resulting 208 voltage. Can't draw a series of sine waves but if you check google you may see it. Scroll down and see chart.

http://www.electriciantalk.com/f30/explain-120-208v-7538/

[litemover]

Will my ABB VFD, which accepts 3phase, accept 208v or does it need a different flavor of 3 phase? I'm measuring 211v between phases and my VFD is not powering up. It is a used VFD, but I've had good luck with those. Any suggestions?

Looking at the rail, it just looks as if he's pulled 3ph from 2 rails of the 3 ph input. I think I will just wire it up myself like I did the 480v in Auckland.

Chris

[litemover]

My VFD is rated for 3ph 380-480v. My panel says 3ph 240v, It does delta or wye but still says 240v. So I don't think I can run this VFD on this Panel. Doh. That is a bummer. I'm so used to NZ electricity I totally goofed this VFD up stateside...

[Tom Ayres]

Oops...

[litemover]

It's ok, a new 230v 3ph 5hp Mitsubishi is on the way. I hope that will run ok on this panel.

Any friends in EU, Aus, NZ, or other 230v countries need a 7.5kw 3ph ABB VFD in great condition? $340 USD plus shipping.

[litemover]

Some photos of the completed build. That's my guy Tony putting the box together.

Control box mounted. All Axis moving, spindle mounted. No VFD yet.

Will take some more tomorrow.

http://s12.postimg.org/8a7y3pljx/IMG_2386.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/n66hbawyh/full/)

http://s12.postimg.org/7w6m441gd/IMG_2391.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/adidbdlcp/full/)


http://s23.postimg.org/pd61al3fv/IMG_2382.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/e0tfssuqv/full/)

http://s23.postimg.org/h543plbjf/IMG_2383.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/rrxwv0jon/full/)

[Mrayhursh]

Can't wait to see what you are making. It's big and massive, WOW!

[Mrayhursh]

What are the red pieces between the yellow electrical connectors?

[litemover]

They're just dividers. I got them from automationdirect. Makes partitioning easy.

[KenC]

your cable chain looks excessively saggy.

[litemover]

The cable I bought was much heavier than the last sort. Alphawire 16Ga with 3 screens. Kind of overkill but I liked the quality. Plus there is a water cooling send and return in there. If I take a couple links out it should be ok.

[Tom Ayres]

Chris what is the size of your main beams? they look to be around 9" or 10".

[litemover]

They are 10"

[smreish]

Chris,
I had a 20' long machine with a saggy chain. I added Air, water and lots of copper. To help the chain, I added a sloped cable support from the midline of the machine to the spot just under the motor in the far end parked position. The chain sagged a bit, but could never "break it's bacK". Plus, I found that without out it, I had noticable yaw drag on that side of the machine.....(that near side motor drew about .5 Amp more.)

Great looking build. Wish I was in town to help you!

Best,
Sean

[litemover]

Thanks Sean. I'll probably build something if it still sags after I take out the links.

Having a problem with the new VFD. First off, the motor sounds really rough, at about 60 hz startup speed. Secondly the VFD keeps going into OL while Acceling. The VFD is rated at 5kw and I supposedly have a 3kw water cooled motor. I'd be willing to bet it is actually 3.8kw as it is one of the 100mm wide motors.

Anways, I set all the stuff right on the VFD, start it, and after a bit of accel, it Overloads and stalls out. Probably some stall setting on the VFD. Not sure.

It's a mitsubishi D700 VFD. Here is a link to the manual. Any ideas?
http://www.emcsolutions.com/ebay/manuals/mitsubishi-d700-manual.pdf

Thanks,
Chris

[KenC]

Check your Overload current setting.

[parrulho]

I have the same VFD and got same frustrating overload current problem. my Spindle is also 3kw but air cooled. I managed to get it bypass the protection, reducing the acceleration/deceleration to a minimum. It's the opposite of what says in the manual, but it works. I have used it on some sheets of ply and mdf and I'm 100% happy. only the deceleration could be a little bit longer to be less forced.
I'm waiting for a rs-232/rs485 converter to get comms with my computer then I can use the Mitsubishi software configurator to further explorer other settings... and use MODBUS. For now it stays like that.
I'm at my daily job and can not tell you all my settings but from head and looking at the manual I believe the most relevant are:

pr7 - 0.1s
pr8 - 0.1s
pr22 - 200%
pr29 - 1

the rest is default or setting the accord to your voltage, max freq and limit current...

With this VFD we can automatic tune the motor but I did not play with it yet...

paulo

[litemover]

Thanks for the help with the VFD. What other settings do you have for it? Did you set it for 3kw, 220v? What did you set spindle frequency to?

My spindle was faulty, and it simply stopped running after about 2 mins. So I sent it back. I think the problem was within the spindle. I managed to get past all the overload protection but it still wouldn't work right. Sounded incredibly rough and then just stopped and wouldn't come back.

The seller has been really good though and sent me a new one right away.

Hopefully the next one will be ok.
Chris

[litemover]

Wow, that was totally fast. Kudos to Qiandingzhensatisfaction on Ebay for his support of his spindles. I sent him back the spindle Thursday and gave him the tracking number, he fedexed on friday for SAT delivery a new one arriving today out of his US warehouse. That had to cost at least $120 to send. What fantastic service really. I would highly recommend him for chinese spindle sales.

I forgot to add, I had also left good feedback for him prior to even checking the spindle, because I had accidentally let the time run out on the last spindle to leave any feedback. So in reality, he could've just let me burn and ebay would've not been able to do much from what I understand. But the guy really supported me.

So will be cutting shortly.

Chris

[parrulho]

After check my settings:

pr0 - 0
pr7 - 0.5s
pr8 - 0.1s
pr22 - 200%
pr29 - 1

the rest is default or according your spindle and your electricity.

I'm using 3 phases of 120V at 50Hz which give 240V between phases. Then I limited the output current to 12A and output voltage to 200V. My max frequency is 300Hz and min is 120Hz.

If you want to know other setting just ask which ones...

It worked for me but I'm not satisfied with deceleration, it stops too fast and it looks to me it's a forced stop (any intent to decelerate in long time give me E.OC3 - Overcurrent trip during deceleration or stop).

If you know better settings with a smooth deceleration let me know.

paulo

[litemover]

Yeah, I noticed the same thing with deceleration compared to my ABB VFD, which doesn't brake the decel at all. There are options in P156 to turn off over current errors in deceleration or accel.

[litemover]

Hey Paulo, P250 set to 1000 will coast the motor to a stop!
CC

[parrulho]

Thank you. Just tested it Ok. My p80 is set ar initial value 9999. P156 must be set to 0 I get errors. Today I got the rs232 converter. Now I"ll play with fr configurator... lets see

[litemover]

If my VFD keeps overloading and stopping, does that mean my Spindle is getting too hot or something? Overload protection is on for it but it is an electronic thermal overload circuit in the VFD. Not sure how it can sense anything. I'm running a pump that is pumping 268 gph through it. It doesn't even get barely warm before it trips in 1 min. Any ideas?

I could turn off protection but am reticent to do so.

[litemover]

Ok, I'm having a hard time setting up this VFD with this motor. What's happening is that when I set it up at first, and get basic settings, it tends to run right. Pulling about 2.8 amps at 33volts, this is at around 40hz. Just testing. When i get it up to 60 hz, the motor outputs a really high pitched noise and sounds totally wrong.

I can input some more settings which Paulo gave me and get the motor spinning past that, but then it pulls 20 amps at 120v. Not sure why. Perhaps it has something to do with my power.

My power may only be 208. Would this affect it? I am getting 217v between phases and it's possibly set to wye. I really don't want to risk burning the spindle. If anyone has a water cooled spindle, how does your spindle sound, really quite, whisper like, or hard? My initial setting sounds really really quiet.

It's really quite annoying... Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris

[KenC]

Its very weird performance indeed. I don't use a Mitsubishi & am reluctant to read the manual.

Since the spindle actually turned, I am fairly sure your wiring is correct but no harm checking it again to be sure. You want to re-check color code of the wire pairs, the color code might be wrong.

While you are at it, its a good idea to go through the VFD setting a afresh. You might just find something.

Mine whispers like a humming bird, no vibration when no bits are attached.
You might want to ramp up the spindle slower.

Did you run the spindle up to 400Hz? or 100~400hz? for a brief period (few secods) ? It might be a spindle running in thingy.

[Surfcnc]

Chris - as Ken says the water cooled spindles run very smoothly.

This link from Machmotion mentions an autotune sequence for the D700, have you tried that?
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.machmotion.com%2Fmanua ls%2FVFD%2FMitsubishi%2520VFD%2520Installation%252 0Guide.pdf

Ross

[litemover]

Hey thanks guys,

As I figured, I think it is a problem with the power. The electrician may have hooked up the phasing wrong and so the VFD is only getting 120v somehow off the line. I can run the spindle below 60hz and it whispers but once it grabs too much power, it simply squeals and stalls out. I'll talk with the electrician today and try to sort it out.

I've gone through every setting in the VFD 10 times now and can't find a way past this. I've called the vfd company, no joy, everyone says the same thing.

Thanks,
Chris

[litemover]

Ok, I've figured this out guys. The spindle is supposed to be almost silent as I suspected. There was no power problem. It was parameter P72, PWM frequency. I changed it to 3 and it got rid of the squeal. Now all is operating fine and I'm amazed at how quiet this spindle it.

I was confused because the last spindle was so noisy in comparison. There must have been something wrong with the bearings in it or something because it is a night and day comparison. When I adjusted the PWM frequency, the noise disappeared and it runs nearly silent up to 400hz. What a trip.

Ok, so for anyone setting a mitsubishi VFD with a Chinese spindle up, don't set P80 up and don't auto tune.
Chris

[parrulho]

good to hear.

[litemover]

Thanks for your help Paulo, and everyone, ken. Really appreciate it. Btw Paulo, hope u didn't set motor tuning on ur spindle. Or p80. The other settings are good though, but I kept motor load profile to constant torque.

[litemover]

Hey Guys,

Been cutting some set and all is working great with exception of a couple of minor details. I've looked all over but have not found anything pertaining to this so if someone knows where it would be, a link would be appreciated. For some reason, when my X motors are at full velocity setting of 1099 in per min and I get the machine booking at full speed, suddenly it's as if I've hit an e stop and the gantry stops dead in it's tracks. The X motors whine very loud and stop immediately. It's as if I am hitting something on th tracks, but there is nothing on the tracks to hit. I turned the X axis velocity down to around 700in per min, and it stopped but it would be interesting to know why that happens..

The next thing is that the X axis, for some strange reason is cutting at about 1/16th of an inch off in either direction while the Y axis is right on the money. It's no big deal for most stuff, but for cutting precision welding jigs it's a pain in the arse. My tubing channels end up about 3/32" to small for the tubing to fit in.

Apart from that, this machine is working beautifully. I'm trying to get mod bus started, but first hooking up the spindle to analogue on the board.

I'm full on into scenic production so what a whirlwind this has been!

Cheers,
Chris

[Surfcnc]

Chris

Your motors are missing steps - that is what the sound is you are hearing.
What you have "hit" is the available torque at your rapid speed.
The motor no longer moves and after the magnetic connection between poles is overcome it gets into a run away and unrecoverable scenario.

Increasing the amps to the driver is one solution or as you have found reducing the rapid speed also works.
Set your driver to its minimum amps and you will find that the missed steps will come in much sooner.

Suggest you connect up a stepper and driver (off the machine) and play with the speed and acceleration and this sound should be easily reproduceable.

Ross

[Surfcnc]

X Axis

Using Mach 3 1024 screenset go Alt F6 (Settings)
Axis Calibration - bottom left hand corner
Follow instructions.

Ross

[Surfcnc]

PS - What is an inch again? :)

[zumergido]

3 potatoes or 5 eastern brown snakes in the dark. ;)

[Surfcnc]

Chris

Fixed or not?

Ross

[litemover]

Hey Ross,

I've not had a chance to try it yet, but I will tomorrow. I've put in the bigger resistors though and my motors are getting really hot. I can touch them but not for long before it is too hot. I'm using the PK296 b2a SG 7.2.

[Surfcnc]

Cheers Chris

Ross

[KenC]

Chris, sounds like your motors are too hot... whatever motor you are using, the hottest/warmest the motor should go is "uncomfortably hot to hold but without fear of burning hands".

[pblackburn]

If your multimeter can read temperature, use it. You can tape the Type J lead straight to the motor to take the reading.

Emissivity with a laser thermometer or IR thermometer will cause inaccurate high or low readings if the setting in your device in not correct.

Some peoples hands are more calloused than others so they can take higher temperatures. So a palm test is not a very accurate testing method. Hot metal surface contact is about 10°F(5°C) as compared to liquid to start contact burns. Liquid is 120°F(49°C) But if it is 185°F (85°C) you will be burned without much trouble. We have over 20 furnaces that use 185°F(85°C) water to heat metal canisters to melt a byproduct. Each system has it own heater with type j thermometer. A simple contact with the forearm to these canisters will burn you on contact.

[KenC]

I'm right then, 85C & you get burnt & too hot a motor. Some how, very few here have temperature measuring equipment handy... I do have a IR thermometer, inaccurate measurement is way better than no measurement...

[pblackburn]

I would agree. You can get an inexpensive IR. The more expense ones allow you to set the emissivity. In a pinch, you can take a meat probe (Instant Read Pocket Thermometer) for meat and tape it to the motor at the hottest point of touch. Will be within 2% accuracy. This is an easy thing that everyone should check periodically.

[litemover]

I think he motor is ok. It gets hot when I run a facing program, but I can still hold it for about 5 seconds.

Anyhoo, I've been cutting like a madman. Haven't had a chance to post anything I've been sos swamped. Here are some panels I made. It's a mathematically driven pattern that I baked across 4x 4'x8' MDF panels, then routed a rounded edge to catch the light nicely. I painted them pearl metallic. They look great.

I've been trying to square the machine using the method on the X square to Y page. It's pretty good now but getting that last 1.5mm square across a 4'x10' area sure is a challenge. Any tips to make it go quicker? I've gone through a few squaring sheets. Does it make a difference using the extremely thin shims as I do have some of those? Is there another way to check the squareness without cutting 2 sheets?

Anyhoo, cutting has been fun and looking great! Spindle rocks!

Thanks for the support!
Chris.
http://s29.postimg.org/lahcbnn7b/IMG_1424_JPG.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/v7sd4pusz/full/)

http://s29.postimg.org/7fegfg3ef/IMG_2411.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/72n299l4j/full/)


how to take screenshots (http://postimage.org/app.php)

[darren salyer]

That looks wicked cool, Chris!!
Care to elaborate on the mathematically driven pattern??
I'm intrigued.

[litemover]

Thank you Darren.

It's a mesh triangulation algorithm driven by a pseudo-random point spread across a rectangle. Each seed point is the center of a cell. The spread can be as random as one wants, but the algorithm will always generate and even out the cells in such a way as to look connective to one another. I simply offset each cell with a radius at the corners to give it negative space to cut. Then fillet radius on the edges.

The great thing is, the structure is parametric, so once the programming is finished, I can change the density, randomness, size, fillet radius, and offset border size of the pattern by adjusting those variables in real time.

The algorithm is called Voronoi, named after Georgy Feodosevich Voronoy, a Ukrainian Mathematician who studied at Saint Petersburg University, who interestingly was a student of Andrey Markov.

[F.A.B]

Well I hope I am not the only that has no idea what you were just explaining. Way over my head. But the end product is very cool!

[parrulho]

its look very nice. the rounded edges and paint made it look very well finished. By the way I'm using the same Voronoi algorithm to produce custom stippler portraits with good success, it's is a big hit at my art gallery.

[Tom Ayres]

Alright where do you find this algorithm? and how do you use it? I'd like to play...

[parrulho]

Tom, I'm using it the old way with a command line but there are new frontends that make it easy. Take a look at the link: http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2012/stipplegen-weighted-voronoi-stippling-and-tsp-paths-in-processing/

[Tom Ayres]

Thanks Paulo, I'll take a good look at it when I've got a break, thanks again.

[litemover]

Hey,

Anothor project i designed and fabricated on the mechmate. Had a bit of a scare over the past few days. My power supply must have spiked or something taking out my ESS. Lukily had a spare chinese breakout board that I bought for $12 off ebay, saved the day.

All cutting well again. Smoothstepper support, simply outstanding! Greg called me on a Sat and Sun night to help sort it all out and helped me to hook up the other board. What an amazing company, Warp9td. New Board coming tomorrow.

Cheers
Chris

This is Sean, one of my guys.
http://s29.postimg.org/svj7uqz13/1476112_10202819863006920_1645785171_n.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

http://s29.postimg.org/aeot3xj2v/1505413_10202812059331833_1078971345_n.jpg (http://postimage.org/)


screenshot software (http://postimage.org/app.php)

[darren salyer]

Wow!! Cool stuff!

[Tom Ayres]

Looks like something you'd see on a tv game show or tech type tv program

[litemover]

Thanks, it is going to be a news background.
I'm cutting an acrylic desk and was going to put a bevel on it. The acrylic is 3/4" thick, the bevel is going to be 30 degrees. Hopefully, I can cut the bevel in a few passes ok without chipping.

I just cut these cool headers out of foam core. They turned out nice. The Mechmate ESS is working well again after Greg sent out a replacement board.

I'd always recommend having on hand a spare cheap Chinese BOB. They only cost about $20 off ebay but are susceptible to noise.

Cheers,
Chris
http://s27.postimg.org/yg73aofs3/1476112_10202819863006920_1645785171_n.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

http://s27.postimg.org/3n9s6dbz7/1488058_10202827524638456_730163536_n.jpg (http://postimage.org/)


how to print screen on pc (http://postimage.org/app.php)

[litemover]

Just squared up my gantry to near perfection. I had no idea that 1 .005" shim could make sure a huge difference. 1/16" of an in, unbelievable.

Big thanks to Greg from Warp9td for all the help he gave me over Christmas while my smooth stepper blew up. He walked me through every possible fix, then helped me hook up a temporary one. I'm eternally grateful for the smooth steppers support. It is unmatched.

[litemover]

Hey Guys,

Just purchased an RS-485 adaptor for hooking up my VFD to modbus and it only has 2 outputs on it. B- and A+ for RS485. How do I get this into Modbus? My VFD has R+T+ R- T- on it. Is that Full duplex RS422?

Any info on the pinout for Modbus using 2 pins would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris

[litemover]

Ok, well I managed to get the Spindle running via Analoge, but not through mod bus. The only thing is that I can only get it to run very slow, and it won't go faster. There is no trim pot on the board...

Modbus, I think i need a different USB key, one with English instructions and programming, not Chinese.

[litemover]

Hiya everyone,

Sorry I've not posted any updates for months. After building the last machine, things got kind of hectic and it was 7 days a week 12 hours a day for a couple months. Now I'm back in NZ about to embark on some NZ scenic stuff with the Auckland mechmate. So I thought I would share some pics of what I've been designing and fabricating with the OC Mechmate which is an indispensable tool to the business.

I'm constantly impressed at how well this machine cuts!:D These pics are for a couple studios which we designed, lit, and fabricated scenic for. Enjoy.

Talk show set, everything together.
http://s11.postimg.org/p57p7cyyb/MG_2555_Edit_small.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

The guys and girls at work!
http://s11.postimg.org/5kt64kycz/MG_2542.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Painted Screen Surround
http://s11.postimg.org/o1nkveeb7/MG_2553.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

http://s4.postimg.org/p7uxkz4h5/MG_2533.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/p7uxkz4h5/)
News Set
http://s4.postimg.org/j9h4aqlih/MG_2565.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/j9h4aqlih/)
Talk Show Different Colour
http://s4.postimg.org/56qli0qqx/IMG_2483.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/56qli0qqx/)
Starting Panel Cutting
http://s4.postimg.org/jktz9rckp/IMG_2487.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/jktz9rckp/) http://s4.postimg.org/clfxaecmh/IMG_2497.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/clfxaecmh/) http://s4.postimg.org/h9vx5l1t5/IMG_2498.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/h9vx5l1t5/)

Surround & Riser
http://s4.postimg.org/xm5yvbg4p/IMG_2499.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/xm5yvbg4p/) http://s4.postimg.org/5oqcbm5pl/IMG_2505.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/5oqcbm5pl/)

http://s03.flagcounter.com/count/oIKZ/bg_FFFFFF/txt_000000/border_CCCCCC/columns_8/maxflags_250/viewers_0/labels_1/pageviews_1/flags_1/ (http://info.flagcounter.com/oIKZ)

[darren salyer]

Absolutely incredible work, Sir.

[tnarch]

great job

[sierra347]

Nice

[litemover]

Thank you for the comments! Really appreciate it:)

Chris

[darren salyer]

Thank you for taking time to post pics and keep us updated.
I really appreciate that :)

[Jason Marsha]

Great Work.

These pictures inspire those of use looking for this type of commercial work.

Jason

[darren salyer]

You said it Jason.
I'd love to be full time in the shop doing this sort of work.

[KenC]

Christ,
Love your work! Particularly the lattice partition.
How did you do the lattice design? By hand or some software generation?

[darren salyer]

Ken, I think you are over-complimenting with his new name.....lol.
He does great work, but......

[KenC]

Ooooops... that what happen when I can't take my eyes off the nice photos...
Sorry Chris...

Thanks Darren for the heads up. :)

BTW, anyone who can come up with such great works are god-like, to me at the least :)

[lonestaral]

We are not worthy.:D:D

[smreish]

...and that's what #5 has been doing its entire life (and number #28) in a different company.

See....it is a useful commercial machine!

Thanks for posting!

[litemover]

Hey thanks for the compliments guys. Again, really appreciate it. BTW, my name is Christian, so not too far off :D I'm always impressed by the potential of this machine. I would be reluctant to purchase anything below a Northwood or Felder, or ART machine in lieu of the Mechmate. And those Vextas, man they kick arse! I get such nice cuts, they look like a laser.

I'm really wanting to get a 5 axis head on next... We shall see.

Very useful machine indeed. I'm really glad I know how to build one now.

Cheers,
Chris

[zumergido]

nice job.. this machine has no limits.

are you using grasshopper for the patterns?

[Tom Ayres]

Chris, what are you working on these days?

[litemover]

just moved the OC machine, getting it up and running again in antoerh part of OC.

[Tom Ayres]

Are you still doing some of tv sets and stuff? If so post a few pics of your recent work, I'm sure all of us would enjoy it. :D

[litemover]

Working on some stuff now, so stay tuned. It's going to be awesome!