Machining Aluminum #122 - Sydney, Australia

[racedirector]

Hi all

After lurking around here for years I am finally pulling the plug and planning my Mechmate. A discussion with the "boss" last night confirmed my dreaming was over as my wonderful wife understood and approved the need for one of these machines.

To date I have been collecting parts and planning table sizes. Mine will be a pretty standard build based on 1220x2440 board size generally available here in Aus. The main table will be a bolt together design based primarily on Ross's (SurfCNC) machine, in fact Ross's machine is my benchmark and idea generating beast. I have drawn up the design in cad to give me all the bolt locations, lengths and sizes I need for the entire structure.

I will initially be starting with the Y axis and hope to purchase the laser kit within the month. That will allow me to get a fair way along with the major moving bits and have it all tested an operational for when I build the table.

This will not be a speed build by any means, major budget restraints have seen that off quick smart. What I have bought so far has exhausted the CNC buying budget already for the month, aside from the laser kit that is.

I do already have a CNC in the garage, it is a 1200x1200 aluminium/MDF build running Nema 23's and a combination of leadscrews and ballscrews along with a 2.2Kw water cooled spindle and Hitachi VFD. I hope to eventually sell this machine to further finance the build of my MM, minus the spindle and VFD which will go on the MM.

So far I have a number of things bought through here which has saved me some dollars. I must say I love the fact that the MM is built to metric standards, today I wandered down to the bearing shop and bought the idler bearing across the counter for $10.00. My previous machine was a US based build and was a total pain translating the required parts into metric equivalents.

I have also started the quote process for the idler shaft and spider bearing mounts. Got my first quote back at $185.00 for the machining, waiting on the other 2 before I decide which one to go with.

Anyway, I thought I would come out of the dark and into the light. I am so looking forward to the build and will update major bits as I go along. Don't expect too much too soon though :)

Cheers
Bruce

[Tom Ayres]

Welcome Bruce and enjoy your build.

[southernduckie]

Hi Bruce,
Welcome I hope your project progresses a little faster than mine lol. Keep us updated on your progress, Is this for home or your business?
Cheers Andrew

[lonestaral]

G'day Bruce.
Welcome.
I am pretty much in the same boat as you.
Some things are coming together for me, so I hope to have something to report soon.
My regards to Sydney, I spent a few happy weeks there once upon a time.

[racedirector]

Andrew: I must check out your build. I doubt mine will be moving too quick unless I can get at some of the tax money coming our way :) For now this is a home machine but I hope to make a little from it at the same time.

Others: Thanks for the welcome. I have enjoyed this site for a while now and feel I know of everyones machines. I just love all the variations that have resulted and the friendly nature of the forum, I am glad to be part of it now :)

Cheers
Bruce

[darren salyer]

Welcome Bruce....

[KenC]

Welcome to the pit,
The build will be a breeze...

[Andrew_standen]

Welcome , im sure you will have fun building your Mechmate. Its a good solid machine

[paulus]

Hi and welcome bruce I will say take your time with it.

[racedirector]

Received some parts today and I just have to say I was surprised by the size of the #3 V bearings, never seen one in the flesh before. My current machine has #2's on it and I can see why an MM is an industrial machine! I am looking forward to my journey even more now :)

While I am here, a question for the Aussies. Where did you guys get the Z slide steel from? I am having trouble finding 100x6 anything, beit cold rolled or ground. I did get offered a ground imperial plate (4"x18"x.25) in place of the metric one (@ $112.50) but that would be too short to grind myself.... or is it?

Been bumbling along cataloging my needs, went through every plan and noted all the bolts, nuts etc. I will be doing what Ross (SurfCNC) has done and taking my bolt supplier a spreadsheet cross referenced by drawing number.

Off to do more build reading now...

Cheers
Bruce

[KenC]

4"x18"x.25" is perfectly fine.
I got someone to mill the V's instead. Because of laziness.

[racedirector]

Thanks Ken

I'll get some quotes on milling the V's on one of those pieces, wouldn't be surprised though if it is in the hundreds here in Aus. Got another quote back to machine the idler and Z standoffs and that came back at almost $290.00. I think I might just get them of Metalhead instead.

[Red_boards]

I called steel works until I found one that could supply a hardened steel cut to width. The regular smallish steel suppliers didn't carry it. I'll look in my receipts and see which company it was. Surdex, maybe?
I ground vee rails myself. Wasn't much harder than the other axes, but maybe because the Z is a short push/pull of the grinder. Tricky if your steel is too short.
I got standoffs, feet and a few other things from Mike Metalhead. Highly recommend this route.

[racedirector]

Thanks Red

I did a quick Google on Surdex and found suredexsteel.com.au, might give them a call and see what they have. I'll also see if anyone in NSW can do the same. I am game to cut the vees myself, it was just the final sized plate that was concerning me. If I can get some oversized hardened plate I'll do it myself.

Definitely going with MetalHead Mike route for the standoffs etc. Would love to support Australian business but the costs just can't be justified on small jobs. The last guy to quote stated it would be 3 to 4 weeks to get them done!

[David Bryant]

Consider
http://mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=61007&postcount=905
Cheers
David

[racedirector]

Hi David

I have that in the back of my mind, don't know if I want to be the first to try it :) Price isn't that bad either, A$135 plus 10% GST and another $20.00 to send it from Melbourne to Sydney.

[David Bryant]

Bargain I would have gone that path had I known.
Check your spider drawings I dont think it is a change other than the mounting hole spacing.

[racedirector]

Ross did actually say that there would be a 2 mm change in the bearing location, the outer measurement of the extrusion is 104.1124mm as per their cad drawing. I did some preliminary drawings and the rack location is pretty spot on if you use the T slots to attach it. My only unknown was whether I would still need the stiffener tube as the extrusion is 18mm thick and I do not know how much room there is in the spider depression.

[David Bryant]

Would only change the spacers under the V rollers at worst.
Are you using a spindle? (Rather than a router with the mounts close together)
If so my first guess would be that you would not need the stiffener tube. Spread the mounts on the spindle and add the stiffener if you can detect too much flex.
The 104 mm measured is less than the 105 design as the 105 is where the points of the V start and stop if they were present.

Oh with the T slots I would only have them at the top and bottom of the rack beyond where the gear runs. I was sckeptical but the double sided tape has worked very well.

[racedirector]

I am a spindle user, 2.2Kw. I was thinking of getting one of these mounts: http://www.cncrouterparts.com/80-mm-spindle-mount-p-102.html , I have a K2 CNC style mount at the moment (the same as Ross and co have).

Gotcha on the V's, never thought of that :)

Heres a quick screenie of the Cad drawing with a square representing the rack. You have definitely got my creative juices flowing David, will research a little more now...

Cheers

[Surfcnc]

Hi

There is also a small adjustment required to the depth of the V bearings if you use this profile.
Around 2 mm max needs to be removed from the V Bearing radius as it interferes with the lip that captures the hardened stainless steel edge.

I have suggested to put a bolt in the bearing and retaining it in position with two nuts (one either side).
The assembly is then sanded on a belt sander, linisher or a face plate sander by making contact with the sanding surface at a small angle to the direction of travel.
This causes the bearing to rotate and sand off the small amount evenly from the outside diameter of the bearing.

Not a big deal but you need to be prepared to do it to your nice new V bearings.
Another option is to use an IVT compatible V bearing, no doubt this small fitment adjustment is not required if you use their bearings.
BooY is currently investigating this and informed of the issue.

Regards
Ross

[racedirector]

Thanks Ross

I am in no hurry re the plate at the moment. Might just wait until BooY has come back with more finding, if any :)

[racedirector]

Ordered my laser kit from Rick Nixon last night, really looking forward to seeing it and working with it. Am off to buy the steel for the gantry etc this week.

Also, the decision was made today to stick to the "normal" Z plate. Found some hardened steel plate today, cut to size for under $100.00. I am getting it 750mm long to cater for grinding and will cut to length myself. Pick it up Thursday. I'll PM MIke re the standoffs and idler shaft, might be able to squeak them in before next payday :)

[darren salyer]

Eating the elephant one bite at a time....before you know it, you'll be making wood chips. :)

[racedirector]

Ordered and paid for my new controllers today, 4x DM882's. Should have them in my hands by next Wednesday according to Claudia of Deitech. Still no laser kit yet, hoping it will turn up this week :( I did buy a new cheapo 125mm grinder for the upcoming grinding tasks, if it dies I'll just get another one @ $25.00 from Aldi.

Slowly getting there, just dying to build something!

[racedirector]

Laser kit arrived today, awesome stuff. Thanks Rick for supplying. As Rick said, I have no more excuses now and have to get on with things. I have already dry assembled the Y car, fantastic design and love the way it "clips" together. Must shout out to Gerald for his design, excellent stuff Sir! Pity the All blacks are going to kick butt in the Rugby Comp starting on Saturday :D although South Africa are my second choice.

Been figuring out how the grinding skate goes together and after a quick search worked it out. I am off to buy all the bearings and bolts for it tomorrow. My cheapo $25.00 grinder doesn't quite fit so I will either need to modify the grinder or the skate. I am thinking the grinder as it is a cheapo one, the skate is too beautiful to attack :)

Got some quotes on steel back, cheapest was just a tad under $800 uncut but delivery is a problem (no hand unloading). Can't quite work out how to get 9 meter bits of steel home so the next best was $1025 cut into manageable sizes to fit in my car, one place didn't have it all so they were discounted (way more expensive as well). Waiting on one more to see which way I'll go.

[hevertg]

I am a spindle user, 2.2Kw. I was thinking of getting one of these mounts: http://www.cncrouterparts.com/80-mm-spindle-mount-p-102.html , I have a K2 CNC style mount at the moment (the same as Ross and co have).

Gotcha on the V's, never thought of that :)

Heres a quick screenie of the Cad drawing with a square representing the rack. You have definitely got my creative juices flowing David, will research a little more now...

Cheers


hello friend, where I can buy it? know its value?

[racedirector]

Hevert

It is available from the link I posted, all info is on the site.

[hevertg]

I need the price of this, and where I can buy it?
http://imageshack.com/scaled/medium/32/2nh4.jpg (http://imageshack.com/photo/my-images/32/2nh4.jpg/)

[racedirector]

You have to find a supplier close to you. Go to http://www.pbclinear.com/IVTAAQ for info and pricing.

[racedirector]

Not much has happened in my MM world, lack of funds slowed my progress. One thing the hiatus did do was make me think about the size of the MM to build. While it would be nice to have a "full size" machine at my disposal my future work for the machine would be more focused on smaller jobs, I won't be cutting out any surfboards that I know of and while a full sheet machine would be handy, full sheets would be possible by feeding them through my planned size.

So I am going with a small machine, one that is close to what I have now. It will be a little bigger, 2 meters long giving a 1400mm cutting length. Width will be standard for a 1220mm machine giving me the option to go with a bigger base in the future.

My thought pattern for a smaller machine came from reading Al's (lonestaral) thread and Darrens comment in that the thread....... "In truth a machine this size would work for me 80-90% of the time....."

I priced up the steel for the smaller machine and have practically halved the steel cost by going smaller. A good saving for me being on a budget meaning I have the option to upgrade other things if need be in the future. My wife is happier too :)

Hopefully things in this thread will start moving quicker now the decision has been made.

Cheers
Bruce

[lonestaral]

Glad to be of some small service.
All credit to Richoof as his 90 Degree build leaves the way open for bigger things.

[darren salyer]

Don't worry about bumps in the road to completion. Almost a year passed between my introduction and actual start, although I quietly gathered parts during that time.
Once completed, the delays will seem trivial.

[racedirector]

While waiting on the dollars to materialise for my steel I have been finishing off the drawings for my baby Mechmate. Should be good to go now once I have the heavy bits in hand :)

[racedirector]

I found a supplier of bright (cold rolled) and tool steel this morning and before I ring for a price, can someone tell me how much extra I need to buy so I can grind the V's?

My budget is at a premium so I need to buy just enough to get the job done....

Cheers
Bruce

[racedirector]

Found the answer in a thread, boy I love the wealth of info in this forum. Seek and ye shall find :)

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=48335&postcount=105

100mm each end will suffice....

[smreish]

...Your welcome :)

[racedirector]

Received my Z bushes and idler shaft from Mike today (thanks Mike!). With these and my raw Z plate in hand it is time to start building the gantry. Will do a quick brush up on my welding skills and then get into constructing the entire gantry with the goal of getting it all working prior to starting on the table. Wish me luck! :)

[darren salyer]

Good Luck!!:)

[Andrew_standen]

Good luck Bruce.

[racedirector]

Little tiny bit of progress today, started putting my grinding skate together. Almost done figuring out how to use the damn thing :)

Going to go buy another grinder for it, a Bosch GWS 7-125 which I will use with 125mm cutting disks to cut the rails down to size and then 115mm grinding and sanding disks for the vees. As I understand it, the skate works great with one of these grinders....

Cheers

[zumergido]

in my experiense i recomend the Dw 818 from dewalt. 900w machine.. goes perfect on the skate.

[racedirector]

Thanks Fernando. That model is not available in Aus and Dewalt stuff usually requires your first born as payment (meaning damn expensive in Aus) :)

[racedirector]

Just ordered the steel for the gantry, Z and the angle. Bought 9m of angle because it was more cost effective, the remainder from the Y will do the X quite comfortably. Hopefully by Thursday I can start. First order of business will be finishing off the skate and cutting down the angle. That will give me the required bit for the nut plate on the Y. Oh, need to grab a countersink too, mustn't forget about countersinking those holes!

[racedirector]

So I am having problems finding 65x50x6 in Sydney, no-one seems to have any - got a call from the guys I ordered it from today. The options I have are 75x50x6, 50x50x6 or 65x65x6 - which would be the best one to go with? Will be cutting them down with 125mm cutoff discs....

[lonestaral]

Sound as if 65 x 65 x 6 is the best bet.
I used 50 x 50 x 6 but that effects the shim washers for the Y car unless you adjust the car beam lengths.

[racedirector]

Thanks Al. Crisis averted though, did some ringing around and found some 65x50x6 an hour or so away (read not local!) so am off to pick it up tomorrow. Funny thing is the length was $20.00 cheaper than my local crowd :)

Also got my gantry tubes and Z tube today, quickly fitted the gantry together to see what it looked like. Can't weld yet, I want to get the holes drilled in the tubes first and to do that I need my angle iron. Looks the the weekend will be my actual construction start date.

[KenC]

Go get it welded ASAP. Remember to follow the welding sequence religiously.

[racedirector]

Hehehehe Slow and steady is my game Ken, don't want to stuff anything up. It will probably take me a week to ensure everything is square, level and straight before I attack it with a welder. My first task will be cutting down the angle to give me the clamp strips, which will then be drilled as a master for the gantry.

Learnt a long time ago that to build a precision machine it takes time and patience.

[racedirector]

So I had a mini drama with my gantry. After taking the above picture I moved everything into the garage and had another play with it. I was wondering why one of the 100x50 tubes wasn't fitting properly until I measured it. Turns out that one was 101.5mm x 51.5mm. Not suitable me thinks. So the next day I go back to the supplier and tell them about the problem and I get weird looks. "well it came from our our 100x50 rack, must have been a different batch". Don't care me thinks and asks for it to be replaced. Really pissed off look on the guys face and he goes off and digs another 8m length out of the rack. When he was just about to cut it, he finds the other end of the good piece I got originally.

"Can I have that piece cut please", another grumpy look. I tell him I need 1720mm and to my horror he gets out a tape measure, marks it with a pencil and then eyeballs the line on the saw. I get it home to find it is 1719mm so I decide to measure the first one - 1722mm. So now I have to get them both to be 1719mm or just bite the bullet and go somewhere else that has a better system for maintaining multiple copies of a set length. I know for one thing I won't be going back to these guys, they have lost the potential to make another $600 odd out of me.

On the bright side, I picked up my 65x50x6 angle Friday and as a bonus, the 2 lengths I asked to be 2100mm were in fact that. If anyone gets my future business it will be these new guys an hour or so away from my house....

[Tom Ayres]

Bruce I'm glad you were able to identify the problems. Looks to be going well for you.

[zumergido]

well you have many good brands on australia. you dont have dewalt but you have carba-tec..

[racedirector]

So, I took some of the work I did on my current CNC to where I work part time and the reception for them was brilliant. My wife works at the same place and took them around the company to very positive feedback. Now, in my eyes the items were sub-standard but people seemed to like them.

I get a call from my wife this morning and she tells me to get the mechmate built so we can supply people at work the things they have now been asking for!

To that end, I am waiting on 2 new quotes for all the steel needed to get the base done and will be buying my final motor and racks this week as well. From here on in expect quite a few questions as I go all out to get my Midi Mechmate built and operational :)

I shall return soon to document my progress - let the games begin!

[racedirector]

Ok, here goes the first question.....

I will undoubtedly running direct drive initially until I can cut my own reduction boxes so what pinions should I be looking at? I can get 30T pinions from the same people I am getting the rack off but they only have 10mm ID's and my motors are 12.7mm (1/2"). I could go to TEA industries for my pinions but am not sure of the tooth count to get for direct drive.

My motors are these: http://ausxmods.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=13 and I will be running them at 50V with one of these http://australia.rs-online.com/web/p/toroidal-transformers/2238235/ along with Leadshine AM882 drivers.

Cheers
Bruce

[KenC]

You can bore your pinion to fit your motor shaft. 24T is the "standard" for direct drive (which I'm using). Direct drive is just fine, no worries.
your motor, tranny & AM882 is a nice combo.

Have you finalized on your BOB purchase yet? Don't forget your capacitor & bridge rectifier, RS has a whole libery to choose from.

By now, you must had realized the cost of steel is negligible in this build :) If you ad went for DM drivers & sacrifices a few packs of beer, you might just be able to build a full 4'x8' MM.

[racedirector]

Thanks Ken, I will look into 24T pinions and get a quote underway. Good to hear my combo so far is on target.

Yup, I have my BOB, PMDX 122 and also already have the caps and bridge. In fact I am just replacing my 25V toroid with the 35V one, everything else will remain the same. The caps are 4x 5500uf @ 100V. Basically what I am doing if pilfering my current machine for all the usable bits for an MM so also have a 2.2Kw water cooled spindle and Hitachi VFD. That machine only has 425 Oz-in Nema 23's so they will stay on the old one until I get around to replacing everything and selling it as a going concern.

Now, the "problem" with a full size MM is the space in my garage, a 4x8 would fill it without much room left. My planned (an initial) 2M machine is a good match at this point.

Cheers

[racedirector]

Wow, just got my quote back from TEA Transmissions in Queensland for 4x 24T pinions with 12.7mm bore - $23.43 each + GST making it $103.10 plus shipping. Wasn't expecting that but what must be, must be. Oh, and 4 weeks delivery schedule as well.

Oh well....

[racedirector]

Another question if I may..... I only have 4 motor springs, where do you Aussies get your springs from?

While I am here, any pointers to the right size and supplier of the gas spring for the Z? I'll be running a standard 250mm Z slide...

Cheers

[racedirector]

I got a real surprise today on the cost of steel and that now has me thinking. My plan to build a 2mx1.2m machine in post # 31 was more based on dollars than wants, oh, that and the space in my garage.

Anyway, based on the steel pricing I got today I costed out doing a 2.4mx1.2m machine and to my surprise it came out at a tad under $200 more. Now, I have been working part time alot lately and think I can stretch to this now. If I take down a few things in the garage and rearrange a bit better I think I can get the full size machine to fit. Aside from the already purchased 2 pieces of 65x50x6 that would be too short (2400mm instead of the required 3100mm) I could pretty much get a full size table for about $750 plus the additional 65x50x6 required.

I'll do some more measuring this weekend and see if I need to crawl back in my box and change my mind again....

[Surfcnc]

Pinions - yes expensive here, wait until you have them machined unless you have a lathe.
I have bought them cheaper as I replaced all mine when I did the reduction drives but can not remember where.
Originally I drew them and had them made in China, still expensive, not recommended.

Strut - 350mm for the strut body (the black part).
Gas charge to 15 kg should be ok.
Strut diameter 18mm.

Springs - They should pull approx 12 kg over the length.
We had them made at a spring makers to the correct specification for Skippy, Maddog and my machines.
They were approx $60 for 5 but they were right.
You need 5 not 4, made that mistake myself first time.
Too little pressure and the pinion does not engage as it should, too much and the rack and pinions are unnecessarily ground into each other.
Any spring will do as long as it pulls around 12 kg on a scale at the length required.

If you make a larger machine and are short on space make it easy to move.
Some people put wheels on the machines but it will need to rest on feet not wheels when trued up.

Ross

[racedirector]

Excellent, thanks Ross.

I have another quote in progress for pinions, well have sent an email anyway. The part about TEA's pinions is the 4 week wait, I am not a good waiter :) I'll go looking for the other bits in the coming week.

Whatever size machine I eventually build will be a bolt together design. I know for a fact that we will be moving in the future - we rent so that is inevitable.

Cheers

[racedirector]

I am now committed to a full size machine. Yea I know I said I was building a smaller one but the prices and difference between the two was small enough to sway me. Pay for my 200 and 75PFC tomorrow, will hopefully pick that up later this week.

Will also be paying for my racks tomorrow so they will be under way too. I'll also see if I can fit in buying the SHS for the lower table as well this week and then will have pretty much everything to build the base and the gantry. One more motor to get plus a toroid and I will be all go. Then all I will have to do is find time to put it all together :)

[racedirector]

200 PFC (2 @ 3000mm) & 75 PFC (6 @ 1640mm) ordered, pick up Friday (depending on work) or Saturday. Will probably have to take the passenger seat out of my car to fit them in :) I have a length of 75 PFC here that I will cut to size when I get the rest giving me 7 in total as per my design. Full size Mechmate here we come!

[litemover]

Hey Bruce,

Here's a tip for you. If you want to get cheap M1 rack and pinions in OZ, go where I did. CNC & cupcake world out of Melbourne. Look them up on Aussie Ebay. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[racedirector]

Hi Chris

Yup, know about them. About to order 3x 2m and 2x 1m racks from them. Gonna try 4 of their 30T pinions too to get me going. Will be pulling the "Buy it Now" plug on these tomorrow :) $341.55 including shipping for all that is absolutely brilliant!

Cheers

[racedirector]

I now have all my steel apart from the replacement 65x50x6 for the X (2 @ 3.3M). Anyone want 2 pieces of 65x50x6 2.4m long? :)

That 200 PFC for the main beams is damn heavy, weighed down the left side of my car pretty good. Lucky I took the passenger seat out, the 3m pieces just fitted within the confines of the car. My wife was not impressed helping me carrying it down the driveway :)

Lots to do now instead of lurking around here 24 hours a day!

[racedirector]

Added pic

[racedirector]

What all that steel is for :)

[Mrayhursh]

Good Luck, Looks like another blue beast is underway.

[racedirector]

Thanks Hurshy, I am really looking forward to the build.

First test layout, long way to go before I can weld this up, its just I wanted to see if my drawings translated into real life :)

[Tom Ayres]

Gosh Bruce I don't think my Mini Cooper could carry anything near that amount of steel, the largest anything I've put in it is a tightly rolled-up 4 x 8 sheet of counter laminate. Oh and a 32 kg dog. Best of luck on your build!

[lonestaral]

Dont use the wife for manual labour.
All ammo for the divorce.:eek:
Thats a lot of steel for a Robin Reliant.:)

Good luck with your construction.

[KenC]

Ya, you can get your dog to help, but never the wife!!!

[racedirector]

Hahaha, tis all good guys. My wife is very receptive to this machine and she actually offered to help, no insisted. Her complaints were the weight only not the job itself :)

[Tom Ayres]

Sounds like a keeper.

[Mrayhursh]

Power on brother, you look like you are going to have your base completed soon. Looks like you are making it rock steady. I need to have my base portable so I had brackets welded to all intersecting spots. I see some of the bases being built using far more steel in the lower sections. I wonder if I need to beef mine up. My base is still setting out in the driveway and I try bumping it to see if it moves and it doesn't. It may be due to upgrading from 3/8 to 1/2-13 bolts and using bevel washers and lock washers. I guess I will find out.

[KenC]

Hurshy, its nice to beef up the frame, but not essential.
Don't get paranoid :)
& stick to your plan if you wanna finish your build.

[Mrayhursh]

ok I will skip the second floor and the pool

[racedirector]

Yea, I just decided to make it as stable as possible, the steel required didn't cost much so I thought why not :)

[racedirector]

The brakes are on in my build, looks like I will have to get rid of my current CNC machine before building the MM. I mocked up the table in the driveway this morning and my minds eye concept of the size has nothing to do with reality!

[Tom Ayres]

Wait until you turn it over, THEN the real reality sets in. Ha ha:D

[lonestaral]

You will find that it gets very big and very heavy very quickly.:)

[racedirector]

Think I have figured out a way to still go ahead with the MM :) So today I spent the hours cutting up steel, taking a break every so often to get out of the 37C heat we had today. Still got a bit to do and maybe, just maybe, this weekend I can spend welding up the base sides. Lotsa drilling, tapping and welding coming up!

[Mrayhursh]

you got to love that sweating grinding, drilling, welding, sweating. it makes for great memories and you got to appreciate all those who have done it before.

[racedirector]

Finished up all my cutting today, I now have all the sections of the base. I made a jig on my current cnc to make sure I got everything inline and square.

I changed the configuration of the sides to make it easier to cut and build. Each panel coming out of this jig will have 3 legs attached, one at each end and one in the middle. These panels will be welded to the legs, the end plates in the photos were a previous idea but they make a good square end point - they won't be welded.

Off to buy some drills so I can drill the legs for tapping and hope to get them drilled some time today. After that the welding will begin :)

[racedirector]

Couldn't resist - today I started tack welding the frames. One down, 5 to go then on to drilling and tapping the legs.

[lonestaral]

Another one bitten by the MechMate bug.:D

[racedirector]

And boy, does she bite hard! :)

[racedirector]

I started to weld up the base last weekend and then got called to work. Real annoying when work gets in the way of one building schedule :) The only positive thing this week was my racks and pinions arriving today, one more piece of my puzzle solved. Hoping my upcoming 3 day weekend will be fruitful and that I can get more done on my machine.

[Kornerking]

I started to weld up the base last weekend and then got called to work. Real annoying when work gets in the way of one building schedule :) The only positive thing this week was my racks and pinions arriving today, one more piece of my puzzle solved. Hoping my upcoming 3 day weekend will be fruitful and that I can get more done on my machine.

What is this 3 day weekend you speak of? :confused:

[pblackburn]

I think he is already on it.

[racedirector]

I work part time, and go back on Tuesday :)

[racedirector]

Construction has officially started :)

Got 50% of the base welded over the weekend and continued today to start the final pieces. Did a quick check to see if everything was fitting as per the pic.

I was going to weld the side panels but after spending the day trying to do just that I have decided to bolt everything so my tack welds will be broken and mounting plates added to each section. I have more work for the next couple of days so the next update will probably be around this coming weekend.

It is definitely exciting seeing this thing go together, so looking forward to doing more!

Cheers

[Surfcnc]

Looks very sturdy Bruce.

Ross

[lonestaral]

Looking good mate !
Will you be offering those bikes for sale on the net ?
Looks as if some of that other stuff will have to go as well, or will you be going on a diet ?

[racedirector]

Thanks guys :) Al, its being initially built on my garage entry driveway, I can't get it in my garage just yet as my other 4x4 cnc is in there along with a long neglected model railroad in the making. Oh and alot of that in the driveway is destined for the skip bin that I haven't got yet :)

[lonestaral]

You'll need a skip when your MechMate gets going.
Offcuts, Skeletons & lots of lovely dust.

Whats the story with the other C.N.C. ?
I cannibalized mine.
The bed ended up as a top for a bench, somewhere else to stack offcuts and junk.

[racedirector]

Hahaha, thats what most of what is in the background is, offcuts and failed projects.

The other CNC is a Joes CNC, one of the original leadscrew versions, aluminium extrusion and MDF. Never had much luck with creating anything of worth from it. I could have enhanced it to make it better but for a little more I could build the machine I have always wanted, namely a Mechmate so the decision was made to just fix up the old one once my MM is cutting. That machine will end up in the driveway to make room for the beast in the garage :)

[KenC]

Once you get your MM going... I doubt you will bother with your old Joes any more...

[racedirector]

Been looking for more 65x50x6 for the past couple of days with no luck. The last place I got my other lot from now have a $250.00 minimum spend. Ended up buying 65x65x6 instead which only means a little more effort to get one leg down to 28mm. Oh well, such is life.

[darren salyer]

I agree Ken. The entry level machine I posted pics of at the beginning of my build thread has gone untouched since the first day the MM came to life.
Probably should sell it to someone else looking for an entry level machine.

[racedirector]

A little more progress. Lower table fully welded, tomorrows job is to perfectly square it up (currently 4mm out of square) and drill & weld the PFC mounting plates and foot plates.

[racedirector]

Found my 25 yr old drill press wasn't big enough to drill the 200PFC and was dreading drilling holes with a power drill. Happened upon a drill press for sale at the local camper manufacturer yesterday and bought it today for $200. Lovely old beast built like a tank, comes with a 20mm chuck, multi speed etc etc. Give me an old used too any day over a chinese import new one!

[pblackburn]

Speaking of tanks, your frame is one. That puppy is solid. Nice work!

[racedirector]

Thanks Pete, wanted to make it as flex proof as possible. Didn't want any "leaning on the machine" to affect the cutting like some other cnc's out there :)

[darren salyer]

Frame looks about right to me...

[dbinokc]

Mike needs to move you into the Construction Started heading. I think you are well out of the planning stage. :)

[lonestaral]

Speaking of moving, have you got an overhead crane or will you invite the rugby club over.
Looking good.:)

[racedirector]

Thanks Mike for the move!

Al, she is all bolt together so I am simply unbolting the bits and reassembling the right way up, no cranes involved, only muscle for the main beams :)

[pblackburn]

Bruce,

If it is all bolt together. Once you have it leveled and square, take the time to put in locating pins/dowels and stamp each piece as to location (ie AA, 1E etc. Then if you have to move it later to another location, setup will be easier.

[racedirector]

Good idea Pete, thanks. Was just looking at metal stamps on ebay, bit pricey but I will continue to look for some cheapo sets. Will also grab some roll pins for the task.

Oh, and got my final motor plus a roll of tape for sticking the rack on. Went with Husky tape, $65 odd for a 16.5m roll of 2mm thick, 15mm wide A5200W. Priced 3M VHB but it was double that here in Aus. Bought my toroid (35V 4.5A x2 300VA), my 10000uf 100V caps and the bridge rectifier the day before.

All I have left to buy is some wire, a gas strut, one more motor spring and work out the cable chain stuff. All I will need after that is time......

[lonestaral]

Just use a center punch.
1 dot to 1 dot.
2 dots to 2 dots and so on.

Or you could do a dotty A,B and so on.

[racedirector]

Brilliant Al, sometimes it takes others to point out the simple methods instead of over thinking and spending money. In my case spending money is a bad thing! :)

[lonestaral]

:)
My father taught me to be economical.
All the company's I worked for were tight fisted.
I learned to make do with what I had and to be inventive.
Glad to have helped.

[pblackburn]

Don't use a roll pin, they will shear or suffer shear marks between the two pieces of steel when a force is applied for a long period of time. Use of alignment dowels is preferred then roll pins if you cannot obtain them.

[KenC]

I used chisel to mark not only the numbers , also as locating marks. but after I has access to laser cutting, locating (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=57214&postcount=25) is made very easy & by default.
& yes, I use numbers of dots for numbering.

[racedirector]

I gave my old CNC a chance to be resurrected while I build my beast today and it let me down as usual. So as punishment I am pulling it apart tomorrow to make room for the MM to be built in the comfort of a closed garage.

With that done I am hoping to have something workable by the end of January 2014 depending on work. Roll on 2014, the blue beast is coming :)

[lonestaral]

You know what they say,
"Out with the old and in with the new".

Wishing you all the best for the year ahead.:)

[racedirector]

Just rang a local one man engineering shop to ask about boring out my pinions. Quoted $10-15 each which I thought was pretty good - $40 to $60.00 for the lot and more accurate than me using a drill press. Will drop them up next week.

No progress on my build, still clearing the garage inbetween the heatwave days here in Sydney's West. Old machine is gone though so have no CNC to distract me from my task.

[racedirector]

Made some progress this week, hope to have the machine standing right side up ready for the top bits by the end of the weekend.... in the garage instead of the driveway :)

[racedirector]

Got the beast standing right side up yesterday, my 13 year old assisted with lifting the beams into position. Need to shim the beams slightly to get the tops perfectly flat and then I will continue with the gantry.

Going that way so I can then move to the main rails and get them spaced correctly. I would rather use the machine parts to do that than to rely solely on drawing measurements. I will say that my drawings have been spot on to this point but there is nothing like real world stuff for checking on things

[racedirector]

Diagonal main beam measurements.... will do me nicely thanks. Or can someone see the point of chasing 3mm?

[Tom Ayres]

uhh, nope.

[Fox]

yes, our amusuement :D

[racedirector]

Hehehe, point taken. I am going into bad parent mode..... going to buy some cans of coke to make shims out of, don't drink alot of it myself but my kids definitely will :)

[Tom Ayres]

Yes they will!

[racedirector]

Well, I have disappointed my kids without them even knowing :) Didn't need to go buy cans of coke, I found my roll of aluminium tape and made up a bunch of shims from that. I now have 2 beams perfectly flat (with one another) tops. It has changed the overall outside measurement but I can allow for that when I drill and mount the X rails.

I am a happy camper now and can now start gantry construction, first up will be cutting down the angle iron legs to 28mm which will give me the nut strips inside the gantry tubes.

[racedirector]

Just wanted to add..... thank you to all that have gone before me, all the little tips contained in build threads help us newbie builders immensely. I would particularly like to thank Ross (SurfCNC) who highlighted the beams tilt problem in detail, allowing me to follow suit.

[racedirector]

Think I stuffed up my first rail, I eyeballed 28mm on the ruler and proceeded to cut it in many, many passes. Just finished and it (somehow) varies in height from 27.78 to 27.65, from one end to the other. I have a couple of "spare" bits of angle from my foray into building a 4x4 so I think I redo this one at 30mm and sand down the remaining 2mm rather than trying to cut it to 28mm in one go....

[Tom Ayres]

I cut mine at 29 then sanded with 50 then 80 grit when close, probably sanded too lightly. Measured every pass marking the measurements in front of the location on the rail (looked like a pyramid of numbers on the board as it got closer to finished height) Ended up within 0.05 mm total, took a long long time to get that accuracy.

[KenC]

The trick is to have smooth "wave" rather then saw tooth like cut. Mine +/-3mm over every ~3 meters. That is why we shim :)

[racedirector]

Thanks guys, you have both instilled some confidence.

Ken, was wondering why everyone was shimming,now I know :)

Tom, sounds exactly like what I should be doing. Have adjusted my grinder to around 29.5mm and will give it another go tomorrow.

My only other possible issue may be the cheapo grinder I bought for the job. Didn't sound too good while grinding, we shall see how long it lasts :)

[dbinokc]

The numbers look pretty good to me. A variation of .13 mm and off at most .35mm from the 28mm target. Looking at my build, I think the worst that may happen if you are a little low is that the stop bumper on the gantry could drag. In which case you could trim it up.
I think the main cause of the variation I had in my rails(.25mm, .01") was due to not blowing the grit away after each pass of the grinder.

[Tom Ayres]

Oh yeah, that's a big factor.

[racedirector]

Just finished cutting the second rail, varies in height from 30.24 to 29.88. Multiple slow passes in one direction only, cleaning the runway between passes. I think the variations are coming from disk changes, cutting a little tall covers that as sanding will finish them off.

After I sand this one (the mate to the Y rail cut yesterday) I will see what the total variation between the 2 is and decide if I still use my first one.

Off to cut down the X rails while I have the jig set up, they are a bit trickier being 65x65 instead of 65x50....

[racedirector]

Got all the rails cut and started on sanding one of them down to ~28mm. Cheapo grinder died, the blue smoke escaped and the brushes disintegrated. I have another 125mm grinder but my grinder plate doesn't fit and I am having problems modifying it to fit.

I am looking at a new grinder and have my eye on either a 1100W AEG 125mm grinder or a 720W Bosch 125mm grinder. Will go up to the shop with grinder plate in hand to see what fits best....

[racedirector]

Went with the AEG, brilliant piece of kit! Slight mods to the grinding plate and I will be in business again.

[darren salyer]

Good its only a temporary setback.....onward!!

[Bazza]

Hi Bruce
Mate You have definitely moved along nicely since I last checked out your progress
I'm pulling out my plans tonight and putting pen to paper
Hope to get my metal cutting list sorted (might borrow some of your design work if you don't mind, bloody sturdy stuff)
Then set out a budget and wish list for the mechanics and electrics
I'll post them up hopefully next week on my thread, any advice as always is gratefully accepted
Cheers
Bazza

[racedirector]

Hi Bazza

Thanks matey, getting there slowly. If I may suggest something, scour the plans for the right way to do things, I missed a bit on the base and ended up following others in what they had done. I bolted my base as we rent and I know we will have to move at some stage, if you have the opportunity to fully weld I would go with that.

Cheers

[racedirector]

Question for those that have been there, done that. How anal were you on your rails?

I am regretting cutting mine to between 29 & 30mm now and it is taking forever to get them down to 28mm. One Y rail is close, from 28.18mm to 28.34mm and I am still sanding more to get it better (36 grit sanding pads). Definitely NOT looking forward to another week or so of grinding and sanding to get the other down in the 28mm region, not to mention annoying the neighbors with all the grinding noise :(

[dbinokc]

While I am not cutting yet, you are way closer than me in precision. I decided to run with what I have and if I find that the rails are causing me problems with getting accurate cuts I will pull the rails and work on them more.

[Tom Ayres]

I was pretty anal because I wasn't sure how "accurate" they had to be, yes it was a pain in the butt and yes it was annoying. Mine are not exactly 28, they are in the 28.49-.52 range, was taking too long to get there, ha ha. I felt 0.5 mm wouldn't matter, heck I'm sure I'm off more than that elsewhere.

[racedirector]

Thanks guys. I stopped on the Y rail I was doing, 28.18 to 28.34 (used disc). The 2nd Y rail is slowly coming down, currently at about 28.55 average (new disc), will keep swapping out the old for new discs until I get close to rail 1....

[dbinokc]

If I do need to work the rails more on my machine, the plan is to get a good machinist straightedge and some bluing compound(dykem). I can use that to find the high spots on the rail and file them down. Then come back with the grinder to rebevel the edges.

[racedirector]

DB, I had a bad experience with my previous machine I am trying to get this one as perfect as possible. Sometmes I spend way too much time getting things right but I am hoping this one trait will give me a machine I can be proud of instead of making excuses for....

With that said, and I know I am documenting way too much in my own thread, I now have both rails within .10mm of each other, end to end. Gonna give rail sanding a break for now and start work on the gantry just for something different.....

[F.A.B]

I don't know I might be bad but I didn't even measure mine off the grinder, well only with a steel rule to know I was in the park. I did take some time with the straight edge, wire line, lazer and anything esle I could find when it came to shiming in final position on the beams. seems to have worked for me..

[racedirector]

Thanks Mich, as usual I over think things. Grinding down the X rails today instead of moving to the gantry - going to get them "close" to 28mm and be happy. I have acquired lots of cans for shims so I *should* be good to go when the time comes.

[racedirector]

OK, I am setting myself a target, if I make it I will be running the gantry up and down by the end of Feb 2014. There, I've said it now, off to make it happen :)

[darren salyer]

You can do it. :)

[KenC]

Great, now u WILL complete the built.

[Bazza]

Hi Bruce
Another week down and further you go toward completion, a step at a time
Mate, love the attention to measurement accuracy, I'll try to emulate it when I start.
Any firms in Sydney you recommend for steel required for the table?
My Excel sheet has started, the list is large and growing
I can't wait to have a go at this project
Keep up the good work Bruce
Cheers,
Bazza

[racedirector]

Well, things were ticking along nicely until 2 weeks ago. My wife rings me to tell me she had just been made redundant along with her boss. Her company had been bought by a Singapore entity and the slashing and burning had begun.

So for 2 weeks things have been up in the air while we figured things out and are only now returning to normal. Needless to say my build stopped during those 2 weeks hence my missing my goal of having the gantry rolling on the table.

Yesterday I finally finished the sanding down of the rails and today I began making my own eccentrics for the grinding skate. Right at the end of night today I managed to get my glove caught by the drill and while it didn't quite tear my thumb off it was bloody close. So now I have a really sore thumb but I did manage to get the 4 12mm bolts drilled before the mishap. As long as the ole thumb is OK tomorrow I will continue along. Oh, and yes my glove is stone dead, torn to shreds by the winding around the 8mm drill bit.

[darren salyer]

That's all some scary stuff there, Bruce.
Hope everything works out for the Misses, and your thumb heals up quickly.
Good Luck!!

[servant74]

Glad you are still kicking and have all your digits. Gloves are replaceable.

Many of us have been deemed 'redundant' from time to time. Sympathies for you both, but I am sure that these lemons will turn in to lemonade eventually.

[racedirector]

Skate question..... I have one of the "new fangled" skates with the bearings instead on adjusting screws. From what I can make out with searching is the the "axel" for the bearings sits flush with the bottom of the skate, automatically offering the correct height for the job. Is that right or have I got it all wrong?

Cheers

[racedirector]

Ooops, missed those replies, sorry guys. Yup, damn scary stuff with the drill, paniced and didn't even think of hitting the off button, was more interested in ripping my hand out of that glove. The thumb is more squashed than cut as the glove got tighter and tighter!

Thanks too for the thoughts re the redundancy. Luckily my wife was is in a role that is actually still in demand so hopefully she will find something soon. We should be right for a few months before I have to start selling things!

[darren salyer]

When one door closes........etc. etc...:)

[Fox]

You already got the warning, but please don't use gloves on drill press or lathe and such.. Glad you escaped with minor injuries.... Sorry to hear about your wife... All the best !

[racedirector]

Got a bit done and bought in the past few days. Setup my grinding skate and had at it grinding the rails. My first Y rail is OK as I got used to the skate, it will suffice for now and will see how it goes on the machine. The second one is better and almost done. The X rails are next on the chopping block :)

Received my 50m roll of wire today, ordered my cable chain and bootlace crimper and crimps yesterday as well. Getting a little bit done most days so the progress is there....

[lonestaral]

Steady away.
Safety first.
Those digits are single issue only.

Yes, had the order of the cashless boot several times during my career.
Chin up and soldier on.:)

[racedirector]

Wow, just as my thread title changes to "started" I finished up grinding all the rails today. My neighbors are definitely thankful for that :)

This avo I countersunk gantry end plates, drilled both the clamp strip and gantry tubes and did an initial fitting of the gantry parts all ready to start welding it up on Monday. I bought a 2 meter level and levelled up the machine to give me a good base to weld the gantry up on.

No work tomorrow on the machine, off to the Top Gear Festival tomorrow for my motoring fix :)

[Tom Ayres]

You're moving along great! It took me 14 pages of chatter on my thread before I got her running. Enjoy your festival.:)

[racedirector]

Went electrical shopping today and $317 later I have a control box, contactor etc. The only thing missing is the illuminated on/off button which has to come from Hong Kong because shipping one ex US would cost too much. When I am bored by construction I can now start putting the control together. I will be running a 24VDC circuit to run fans, e-stop etc so I can restrict 240V to inside the control box instead of running it around the table.

Not much left to buy now, I am thinking a little paint, primer, rustkill and a couple of sheets of MDF for the spoilboard and I will have everything I need to finish this thing! etc

[racedirector]

Quick Q for everyone, have I got the gantry together the right way for the 0,0 position I have selected?

Quickly threw the bits together to check before welding next week...

[dbinokc]

Two things to watch out for that I did wrong on my gantry. The smaller gantry end bracket with hole in it. Make sure you get it on the correct side. Also be sure which gantry rail gets the hole for the proxy sensor. I got mine on the wrong rail and my rail holes are not symmetric enough. So I cant switch them. For now I am just living with proxy sensor on the wrong side.

[racedirector]

Thanks for the tips DB! The small end with the hole is on the other end of the tube with the big end with cable chain mount. Thinking about the passage of wiring I think that is right. I'll also drill 20mm target holes in both rails just incase :)

[Tom Ayres]

I got wise with the holes, I put them on both rails just to prevent that from happening.

edit: just caught your reply, great minds think alike.

[dbinokc]

I think you got it. I did not mock mine up like you did, so it was not until I mounted the gantry that I realized my error with the bracket.

[racedirector]

That was sheer fluke guys, I just went down and checked my mockup and it was right, didn't even think about it when I was putting the gantry together! :)

[racedirector]

Oh, and I didn't like the way I drilled all the clamp strips and gantry tubes so I went and bought new steel yesterday to redo them. Gonna steal 1planeguys method of drilling them this time around, I liked that....

Yea, I could have welded up the holes but couldn't be bothered, only cost $62.00 to rebuy everything. I'll use the other tubes and strip for some other project down the line...

[dbinokc]

That is why I do not gamble. A one in four chance to get them both wrong and I did! :(

[racedirector]

Got all my rails cut to length and drilled, along with the new nut plates & tubes for the Y's. I am now waiting on my new welder, my crappy one died. I thought bugger it and am getting a Mig this time round that should last me years. The gantry has been setup again ready for welding and my 2 week goal tracking list has been 50% completed 4 days in. The rest of the goal list is welding so now I have to wait for that to materialise but I should still be on track for this months goal to be accomplished on time.

[KenC]

Getting a MIG is a good decision. It took me some time to finally biting the bullet but once having one welding chore has not been the same ever since.

[racedirector]

Quick question before I go buy the 9V AC toroid for my 24V DC E-stop loop. I will be buying a 9+9 1.6a (series) 30VA toroid. Running it in series will give me the required 24V I want. However, I would also like to power my PMDX 122 off the same supply and the question is:

Will I be able to tap one of the 9V legs to give the the 122 supply and still run it in series to supply my 24V E-stop loop?

[jhiggins7]

Bruce,

Take a look at this post (http://mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=63235&postcount=111).

I built a dual 12 volt and 24 volt power supply using the Antec 0209 Toroid transformer for my MechMate. Works fine. My input voltage was 120 Volts, however.

[racedirector]

Excellent, thanks John - just the sort of thing I was looking for. Will collect the toroid this week and get building the supply.

Edit: I see I actually posted in there too, the old mind forgets things unless they are bookmarked. Definitely bookmarking/subscribing to your thread for future reference.

[racedirector]

Picked up my new welder today, a quick 200K round trip :) Will be doing some practice with it on the weekend and then will be straight onto all the welding tasks I need to get things rolling.

[Fox]

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/Mig-welding-tips.html

[darren salyer]

Sounds like you already have things rolling.
Soon there will be an AHA moment when you look at all the sub assemblies you've completed and think: Man, I'm closer than I thought!!

[racedirector]

Thanks Fox, I can already weld with a mig, just never actually owned one. This one is an inverter mig, not a transformer mig so I need to get familiar with its settings. It has arc and tig on it as well, never tig welded in my life so that is for future learning. Gonna give the arc a go though to see how it compares to the crappy one I had :)

Darren, I am definitely looking forward to that AHA moment, it is so close I can feel it. Just sitting there looking at the work I have to do makes me think it is not far off. Then again they could be famous last words!

[Tom Ayres]

TIG for steel is fairly easy, TIG for aluminum has a huge learning curve (very heat and timing sensitive)

[racedirector]

I got my gantry welded up on the weekend. While I have no "propeller twist" I found I am about 1mm out of square. That seems to put the gantry out of square with the table on the ends meaning one wheel gets there before the opposite one.

Can I just space each opposite wheel differently or will I need to get the gantry as square as possible to the table. I remember Ross (SurfCNC) doing something similar to his machine by fixing one side to the machine and then pulling the other end until it was square.

I am not going to do anything else until I am 100% happy with the way the gantry rides from end to end so any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[Tom Ayres]

Bruce if you are only 1mm out of square, rather than risk making it 2 mm out the other direction, you can adjust your y rails square with the x rails, a lot simpler.

[racedirector]

Tom, that's a thought.

I think there must be something else I am doing wrong. I measured the 1mm out of square with a framing square on both ends of the inside of the gantry. When I put the wheels on and run the gantry to end of the machine I can measure just under 10mm offset of the ends. I haven't measured each washer I used but put the same number on each bolt and when measured with a vernier the distance from the wheel rim to the gantry plate is within 0.5mm on all of them.

Very confusing and I am not happy with myself at all as I was striving for close tolerances. I may yet be jumping the gun but my initial thoughts are that I have screwed up somewhere along the line.

[KenC]

Keep going, don't be bolted down with some tiny misalignment, no matter how accurate your fabrication works, you still need to dial in with shims here & there at every stage of alignment.

Go back to check your rails leveling & parallelism.

[racedirector]

I may have found some of my problem. My last effort of squaring the table was a while ago and since then I have moved the table a meter more into my garage space. After I did that I didn't think to make sure it was square again. Just checked it and the table is 18mm out of square so I am currently squaring it up again and trying the gantry out again!

[racedirector]

Machine is now within 1mm of being square, will chuck everything up top and see what the difference is :)

[Tom Ayres]

Bruce, if you go ahead and install your first spoil board, it would help keep it square, plus it gives you a temporary work surface. Just start fastening the ends first, straighten the x rails as you work your way to the middle. Its amazing how much flex there is.

[racedirector]

Thanks Tom. When it stops raining I will shoot out and grab a sheet or two.

[racedirector]

Up and down week this week. Good thing was welding up the Y car, drilling the final 20mm holes in all the rails and getting the Z plate bearing tracks ground/sanded to shape.

Bad things were the X rails not sitting right, had trouble all week getting the gantry to track properly and the welding on the gantry itself. Even though I had my new mig, I had no gas so I stick welded the gantry. After getting some gas and welding up the Y car I now hate the welds on the gantry so they will be ground back and rewelded with the mig.

Also found the main beams had once again canted inwards at the top, my shims had failed throwing everything out hence my problems getting the rails right. Tonight I stripped the table back to legs and main beams and tomorrow will resquare, remeasure and *weld* the main beams to the legs instead of bolting them. The only down side to this is my wasted time building bolt together sides and the 12mm holes that will be left in the bottom of the main beams. May weld them up for cosmetic purposes. Having the main beams unbolted will also give me a chance to properly weld the ends on (didn't want to weld vertical with the stick when I did them) and derust them at the same time in prep for paint.

Once I have everything back to how I want it I will probably paint the whole base, gantry and Y car as all the welding and drilling will be done on those and then I will finish up the end stops, weld those to the rails after which I will paint those too.

Should be done with all the above by weeks end at which time I will take some more pics.

Oh, and what do you guys pay for 32mm MDF? Priced both 2400x1200 and 2400x1800 sheet at $120 and $150 respectively. Oh, could also get a sheet of 1200x1800 25mm MDF for $100. Would there be anything wrong with 2 sheets of 16mm instead as I can get 2 of those for around $60.00.

[pblackburn]

I would not see a problem if you are gluing it somehow. Remember you want it to be free of metal so not to contact it with a cutter. So screwing it together would be out of the question. I even went to the extent of using brass flathead screws on the off chance I bored into it. I only used 19mm for the spoilboard.

[Tom Ayres]

I just bolted down a 19mm (countersunk) and glued a second on top, certainly sures it up

[racedirector]

Excellent thanks guys. Will use 18mm instead and stack.

[racedirector]

Welding now finished on the main beams, base squared and straightened and the main beams put back on top, main beam tops set to horizontal plus exactly 1650mm apart and everything squared up ready to tack weld tomorrow before fixing in place permanently.

I have to redo the PFC cross bearers, the holes no longer match up due to the canting over of the beam tops. Will turn them over to redrill and the holes that are in there now will be cut off when I angle the ends.

Also started to de-rust the main beams, need to degrease and clean them before the application of Wattle KillRust-Eeter to settle it all down.

Getting there slowly, eating that elephant once again!

[Tom Ayres]

...one bite at a time. Sometimes its hard to swallow though.

[racedirector]

Yea, these bits were hard to swallow.

Couldn't resist, just went down and tack welded everything, took the clamps off the spreaders I had and bingo! all square on top and exactly the same distance apart. Am almost back to where I was last weekend, only better this time :)

[KenC]

When it gets hard to swallow, bite an even smaller bite :)

[racedirector]

As long as it doesn't get too chewy :)

[darren salyer]

I love it.
Progress, no matter how small is a good feeling.

[racedirector]

Ok, got the table back together after the abrupt welding actions and am again trying to figure out the not square thing. I fixed my rails down and now have around a 5mm difference in the proxies hitting the targets on the X. Diagonal measurements from the rail ends to the holes is spot on.

I clamped some steel to the gantry at the 0,0 end of the table and pushed it up against the front cross beam and one side hits before the other does.

I have been *trying* to get out to grab a sheet of MDF but every time I get about half way to the store it starts pouring with rain. Tomorrow after work looks hopeful weather wise to finally get one, hopefully then I will be able to see what is actually off, the table or the gantry. Its getting bloody annoying I can tell ya!

[KenC]

The rain is a sign.... :D
People upstairs are jealous of your progress. :D

Don't worry about the absolute squareness now, you had done very well in deed.
The real squareness tuning will come after installing the spoil-board AND conduct your door skin ply test.

[racedirector]

Your opening lines made me laugh Ken! :)

Just reread Gerald's thread on squaring the gantry and in tandem with Kens post I will now wait until I can get that elusive sheet of MDF to lock the base square.

Just bought a pack of 0.10mm shims so I can space the V wheels on the gantry if need be, I reckon 100 should be more than enough for the job :D

[pblackburn]

Sometimes we work so hard for a solution that the answer will present itself if we just get out of the way. Food for thought.

[racedirector]

Too true Pete, sometimes I am my own worst enemy. ...

[KenC]

Don't forget to get 2 pieces of 1/8" door skin plywood while you get your MDF spoil board.

[racedirector]

I would grab 2 6mm mdf sheets but in my garage they would be like 2 bananas by the time I used them. They will come when I buy the next 2 sheets of thicker mdf for the actual cutting surface.

[Tom Ayres]

Ken what's a door skin ply test? Is this something I should know about? Or is it known by another name?

[KenC]

Tom, its this (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231) .
I call it door skin ply test because I used door skin ply for the test :)
Sorry for the confusion.

[Tom Ayres]

Ok, shimming the gantry to square. I thought maybe I missed something.

[racedirector]

*Finally* got my MDF, this time with a bonus. I bought a sheet of 18mm and 2 sheets of 16mm. While loading the trailer the guy at the store asked what I was doing with it. After telling him I was using it on a CNC has asked if I wanted 3 more sheets that were "fuzzy" on the edges, all for free. Hell yea I says and we loaded 3 more sheets of 18mm on to the trailer. One of the "fuzzy" edge boards is now my base spoil board, there is a few scratches on one side (now the bottom) yet all the edges are perfect. The others will be used for the shelf under the machine and other little things. That means I will have an extra sheet of 18mm to make things out of :) The 2 16's will become my actual spoil board after having T-track slots machined in them.

Now to square the base so I cen get that part out of my mind. Onward and upward!!!

[KenC]

WOW!!! People upstairs felt guilty for delaying your progress with the rain!

Don't forget to seal your mdf spoil board, this is the only chance you get to do it thoroughly.

[alan254]

you can pull the table square with a cum-a-long prior to fastening the sheets down, that usually works good and it will stay in place during fastening.

Al

[spyderxxx]

Ray

What I did on my own machine was mount the T track to the top layer of my base. Then cut strips to fill between the track . Easier to do and easier to replace. I have a total of 3 layers.

Ed

[racedirector]

Ken: I think you may be right, these sort of things just do not happen to me.... usually! :)

Al: Had to look up what a come along was but ye, didn't need one of those. My table is bolt together, I just loosened one side, jacked up the other and moved it the required amount. Did the bolts back up, checked and whalla! all nice and square.

Ed: Being a miser I am cutting my own T tracks like buibui I think. Next layer up from the 18mm will be a 16mm which will have channels cut into it. On top of that will go another 16mm which will have the matching slots cut in it. Depending on what I cut I will have other smaller spoil boards under the job to save the real top as much as possible.

[racedirector]

Small progress report :)

Base spoil board drilled awaiting sealing.

Gantry stops made and welded on for the X, Y to be welded tomorrow.

X cable chain mount welded, bracket made to mount X cable chain to the gantry. The bracket will be drilled tomorrow as well as (possibly) mounting the cable chain bracket to the X.

Control box sort of started. I stripped all the parts I will be using out of the old machines box and started placement planning in the new box. Got a bargain on a brand new 500x500x250 box. I still need my on/off switch and a couple of other bits to start putting it together. I have a mate visiting at Easter to help pull all the voltages together so they work in harmony. Between now and then I have my 2 power supplies to make - 1x 50V for the steppers and 1x 12/24V for the pmdx 122 and the e-stop circuit. I just need brackets to mount the toroids which will happen tomorrow while I out buying other stuff.

[darren salyer]

Any progress is good progress....

[lonestaral]

Photographs, Bruce.
We want photographs:)

[pblackburn]

All good things take time Bruce.

[racedirector]

A little more progress, that elephant is slowly disappearing :)

[lonestaral]

That's better mate.
See what you are talking about now.
A very nice workbench you have made:)

[KenC]

Great progress. Will you be doing the paint job anytime soon?

[racedirector]

Thanks Guys :)

Ken, yup almost ready. Just have to make and attach the mounts for the last bit of the cable tray and painting will start to cover what I have done so far. I am not going with the std blue, mine will be red and black as that is my favorite colour. Bought a can of KillRust Delicious Red today to see how it looks.

[racedirector]

Continued the day making more brackets and cleaning things up ready to paint various bits. As one of the last things I wanted to double check that everything was good with the X rails and what I found wasn't that great. After a session of as accurate as possible measuring I found my proxy targets are off which will cause the proxies to reach the holes at different times. I am seriously thinking about redoing both X rails from scratch, taking what I have learnt so far and applying it to the new ones. Would mean spending another 90 odd dollars for new angle I didn't want to spend but I feel it would be far better than trying to patch these ones up. Will think overnight and decide in the morning after sleeping on it.....

[Fox]

Did you use excenters !? Does not sound like anything a welder cant cure.

[racedirector]

Excenters?

You did get me thinking however, a 20mm bolt would supply the required disc of steel to weld into the holes and redrill...... will grab one tomorrow.

[smreish]

...or some 20mm structural steel washers and use them as fill material.
If you really want to get crazy.
Leave the one side alone, then eccentrically drill the 20mm plug and you can "dial" the plug until each is spot inline to each other.

NOTE:
In operation, it's not that important that they line up to each other as long as the one that is used in the homing routine is the 1st one that the proximity sensor "see's".
The proximity sensor on each side during operation detect a "derail" which is a vertical change in sensing, which the hole doesn't apply...and in an overrun situation, the target will be seen regardless.

[Fox]

yes, the plans show this eccentric disc for aligning the proxies.

[racedirector]

Thanks guys for all your input however I have started to replace the X rails due to not only the proxy targets but also some mis-measurement that would only cause me grief later. I have both new rails cut down to ~28mm now and will continue this afternoon to grind the required vees in them. After that is done I will be back where I started albeit with better rails this time round.

If this weather continues tomorrow I should be able to get on with cleaning and priming the base ready for paint.

Oh, just one things for the Aussies out there, be very mindful where you buy your steel. This new set of X rails I bought are absolutely perfect pieces of angle iron unlike the previous ones. We get alot of Chinese steel down here and that is usually crap quality. Just make sure you buy Aussie made stuff, it is streets ahead of the Chinese imports......

[Tom Ayres]

I'm not an Aussie, but we too have the same feeling about our US steel over the chinese steel.

[racedirector]

Thought I would price some vrail in Australia as another option for my machine but I almost fell off my chair at the quote. $595 per 3m length +10% tax plus $445 per 2m length (Y axis) + 10% tax making the cost for vrail alone around $2200 without shipping. Needless to say it aint going to happen!!!!!

[Tom Ayres]

Wow, break out the skate again.

[pblackburn]

The v rail I purchased here was $475 USD (512 Australian Dollars) and it was enough for all the axes. Induction hardened running surface. Drilled every 3 inches. I had (2) 10' [3m] pieces, (2) 6' [1.8m] pieces and (1) 4' [1.2m] piece. The price you were quoted seems a little high. I had (2) 10' [3m] pieces, (2) 6' [1.8m] pieces and (1) 4' [1.2m] piece.

[racedirector]

Hi Pete

Unfortunately the prices are indicative of buying hi tech stuff in Aus. I did get another quote from Aus but it still comes in around $1500. I have an email in to Rick at Superior Bearings to see what he can do for me in terms of shipping although I suspect 3m will be too long to ship to Aus. We shall see when I get a reply.

[racedirector]

Pete, I have received the pricing from Rick @ Superior and they are outstanding, 3 times cheaper than the cheapest price locally and 6 times cheaper than the dearest. Now all I need to do is figure out how to get it to Aus :)

[Tom Ayres]

Smuggle it in using a block of foam used for a surf board, lol;)

[racedirector]

Productive weekend. New X rails cut to length, motor mounts drilled and tapped, Z spider, tube and plate drilled tapped and countersunk. Will be welding the various bits on to the spider this avo and surfacing the bearing mounts today or tomorrow.

Ordered and paid for my gas strut today as well. Tomorrow I am hoping to drop my pinions into the engineer to have them drilled to 12.7mm. Will also hopefully get some 2mm plastic for the motor mounts in the next day or so. Currently racking my brains on what else I need to buy but can't think of much, could I really be at the end of major spending?! :)

[Tom Ayres]

Nope, the major spending maybe, but there is always a bit more left than what you were expecting. Generally little small options or changes you find you want now that its complete. I ended up spending an extra $400-500 I wasn't expecting, could have been poor planning on my part though.

[racedirector]

You're right Tom, I have already thought of a couple of things. Just dropped off my pinions, he's going to bore them to 12.7 and install grub screws as well, all for $80.00 cash. He also does laser cutting so I am going to get him to quote me for Ross's (SurfCNC) reduction plates.

[darren salyer]

Two guys have now mentioned Ross's reduction plates. Anyone have a link to a relevant thread?

[racedirector]

Yup.... http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2398&page=29

[Tom Ayres]

Ancient Chinese Secret, I asked him for DXF's but he does have a reference in my thread referring to his thread location. For some reason I thought his was #173 or #273 or something like that. Take a look you might find it.

[racedirector]

Milestone today.... construction is done! No more welding, drilling, tapping, cutting, fitting. Garage cleaned, base totally stripped down, up on axle stands all ready for undercoat and paint. All other parts piled up awaiting their turn. Roll on tomorrow!!!

[darren salyer]

Awesome, Bruce!!

[pblackburn]

So Soon? :D

[racedirector]

Got most of the base undercoated today before I ran out of undercoat! Off to buy another liter tomorrow. I used a small HPLV gun, first time using one and it went very well. Will continue to use the gun for the tricky to get to places but will switch to a foam roller for the flat expanses.

Was trial fitting everything into my control box while I wait for paint to dry and found the 500x500 just isn't big enough, especially since I have 4x AM882 drivers which are a tad bigger than DM drivers or Geckos. A quick call to the supplier and I can swap the 500x500 for a 600x600 by paying the difference .... phew!

While contemplating wiring I have been trying to nut out the 24V circuit supplied by jhiggins7 (John) and don't quite get where the line from the relay to the contactor to shut things off goes 13/14, A1/A2?. John, if you are listening can you clarify that connection please? Also, where are you guys getting the main machine connections from? I found a diagram here http://mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=43777&postcount=75 but was wondering if there is anything else.

Cheers

[racedirector]

OK, I am an idiot and should abide by the saying of RTFM. John, cancel that request of explanation, if I draw a little box around your relay drawing it all makes sense.

[jhiggins7]

Bruce,

I'm happy to see the progress you're making. I'm also happy that you worked out the issue you were having. Several people provided diagrams of the control box, early on, that helped me a lot. You might consider posting a copy of the final circuit you come up with for your MechMate. I'm sure it would help any future builders that consider using 24 Volts for the Control Circuit, especially any builders in a 240 Volt environment.

[racedirector]

Thanks John, I'll try and put something together when I work it all out. I am implementing an alarm circuit for my AM882 controllers, they trigger an alarm under certain conditions if a stepper gets out of synch so I want to capture that instead of wondering why things aren't working right. Add to that any alarms coming off my Hitachi X200 plus relay control by the inverter to run the cooling pump. Lost of electrical drawing to do and ideas to "steal" of various people around the net.

I am learning alot about the electric side of things like finding out my decision to use circuit breakers for my controllers instead of fuses. Turns out that running DC through an AC circuit breaker doesn't really work, at least not at the same amps. So they were a wasted purchase and I have since bought some DIN mounted fuses instead for the task.

[racedirector]

Electrical question guys......

I bought a 9VAC toroid to make my 24V power supply. After a few false starts I thought I had stuffed it so I bought a second one from another source. The first one was 20VA, the second one is 30VA.

I built my supply again this time with the 30VA one only to find when it went through rectification it was producing 28.6 VDC, not 24. So I tried the original one again only to find it worked fine. It produced 24.6VDC. Now I am lost - why would one produce more the the other when they are both supposed to be 9VAC. I am attaching the data sheets for each one, the first toroid (that produces 24VDC) is the MT2082 doc, the other is the one from RS Components that produces 28.6VDC. Can anyone see whay this may be so? Should I be sending the RS one back and asking for another? Any ides/help would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: I forgot to say I am building the 12/24V supply first brought to light by John - the 24V is for my E-stop/safety circuit and the 12V will be for my PMDX 122 so the voltages have to be close to what I expected.

Cheers