3D Elk cutting (video) #13 - Hagerman, New Mexico

[Greg J]

Gerald and Mike,

This is a first stab at my electrical circuit (and downloading a file). I did not connect the on lamp because was not sure. In Geralds 230V/115V split-phase drawing, it didn't make sense. Just need more time to study.

I do have the PMDX-122 with the Gecko Drives drawing almost done.

Can you guys shoot holes in the design. One reason I like to draw my own schematic is it makes me understand every component. The negitive is drawing mistakes.

My attachment may be to grainy (BMP File). Boss is screaming to get some painting done. I'll try again tonight
Greg

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[Gerald D]

On bottom feeding, thanks for finding that discussion, and let's just avoid it altogether. (I plan to make more graphical drawings of the components on the DIN rail and you have helped me tremendously with real industry feedback)

Switching of the neutral is something that Mike R also had big problems with, but he eventually relented when it was made clear that we only switch the neutral simultaneously with the Lives (Hots) on a single multipole switch or contactor. We never think of the Neutral as something that is connected to Ground (Earth). In fact, because we have lots of Ground Fault Protection, touching Neutral to Ground (Earth) causes a trip (fault). Look at all continental Europe 2-pin plugs for 230V - they can be inserted any way around.

Snag is, we sometimes find that an idiot swops Neutral & Hot (Live) in a distribution board upstream and we are never 100% sure which of the two wires is 230V above ground potential. Maybe something similar to the US 230V single-phase where BOTH wires are treated with equal respect.

Bottom line is that we prefer switching both wires, but only in a switch that forces them to be switched simultaneously. However, since I am going to end up producing circuits for the America's versus the non-America's, I can avoid neutral switching in the one case.

[Gerald D]

Greg, you slipped in while I posting the previous one.

Unfortunately, a couple of snags because you used a diagram that Mike since helped me to change my mind about. The best diagram to use right now is in this post (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3763&postcount=77). Just treat L1 and L2 as one and the same Line for 115V purposes.

The snags you have are:

- your E-stops are still in the Neutral line

- the fuse will serve little purpse there

The indicator lamp is the simplest of things to position - it sits over the coil to show if voltage is being applied to the coil.

In your power supply schematic:

- The input of your transformer shows an un-connected coil. That coil will be in parallel to the one above it for 115V, but watch the instructions from Antek VERY carefully. They should be pre-wiring it for you and just presenting 2 wires to connect to mains.

- You show the two output sections connected to each other with one vertical line. That is incorrect - the Anteks are supplied with the two sections isolated from each other. For the PMDX-122, you must maintain this isolation.

[Greg J]

Thank You Gerald,

I just bought a DWG to PDF converter, so the drawings should be of better quality. I'll make the changes and upload my revised drawing tonight.

Uh Oh, the boss is looking for me. Gotta run.

Greg

[Gerald D]

Mike N, the simultaneous disconnecting of all Lives(Hots) and Neutral is equivalent to pulling the plug - what could be safer than that? :)

[Greg J]

Here's my lastest control box schematic. It also shows (external to the box) E-Stops and router.

I'm new at this electronic design, so bear with me. Please poke holes in it and let me know what needs to be fixed.

Greg

[Mike Nash]

Mike N, the simultaneous disconnecting of all Lives(Hots) and Neutral is equivalent to pulling the plug - what could be safer than that? :)

Well, yes and no. One of the issues with E-Stops in general is all of the new safety regulations that go with them. Depending on the assessed level of hazard to life and limb, it can get very pricey to properly construct an E-Stop circuit. This is true in the US as well as Europe. Worst case involves redundant contactors, safety relays (very pricey), and two pole force guided E-Stop pushbuttons.

The problem with breaking the neutral is that you don't know that it or the hot, really did break. Welded contacts are a fact of life. If you are holding a plug in your hand you can visually (or tactiley if you are vision impaired) tell that that all circuits are indeed disconnected.

[Greg J]

Is that the reasoning for putting the fuse "in front" of everything (as you and Gerald have done in the schematic). The fuse is suppose to open before something can "weld".

Greg

[Marc Shlaes]

Greg,

Would you please print that again in landscape mode???

Thanks.

[Greg J]

Marc,

Is that better? I'm using AutoCAD 2000 and that version doen't export PDF. I bought a DWG to PDF converter earlier today and its doing the job, but still some kinks (had to rotate in AutoCAD and save as a new dwg, then convert). If anyone has suggestions, please respond.

P.S. Still allot of errors in this drawing (no ground on the control box, etc.)
Greg

[Greg J]

OK, it prints in landscape, but there is no way anyone will be able to read the fine print. I'll start working on printable 8.5x11 sheets.

Just so you know ... I've been printing my drawings on 11x17.

Greg

[Greg J]

Here are 3 PDF files printable on 8.5x11. When put together they make up my other PDF called control box.

I've made some minor changes to the 3 files (added ground on control box, remove the c (common) on the 9 VDC of the PS, etc.)

These files are only for error checking of my setup. In no way do they replace what this forum or Gerald has done.

Gerald - If I'm getting carried away, let me know. I've always had this fear of multiple sets of drawings floating around and the wrong part gets fabricated (personal experience right out of college)

Greg

[Marc Shlaes]

Greg, Got it. Thanks. I found the layout easy to read, just not the size of print.

Gerald, which post has your latest version? Since the kitchen table simulation is a first step, I (electronically challenged) am working very hard to just get a clue about this stuff. I am a little bit handicapped since I have never even seen a CNC router - except on YouTube.

I don't know a proxy switch from a pig's ear. I hope when I start, that y'all will be patient with my dumb questions.

Does anyone / everyone on this forum use Skype. If so, I would love to talk for a few minutes to someone who can help me understand a couple of basic things about the operational aspects of the CNC router. Then, I think a couple of major pieces will click into place in my mind.

Anyone?

[Gerald D]

Greg, I've had the first quick peek at it. Some details a little incorrect, but the general logic is correct. Except for the relays connecting to the PMDX....

The PMDX only opens/closes a set of contacts - it does not supply power/voltage on those teminals. You need to connect the circuit to a power source to drive the coils of the relays.

[Greg J]

I thought that the PMDX contacts did supply a voltage and current to the router SSR (for example). My router SSR's input is 3-32 VDC / 16 mA.

I'll study the PDMX manual tonight.

Greg

[Gerald D]

The PMDX J7, where you show the wires now, is only a connection to the contacts of the relay on that board, immediately adjacent to the J7. But, on J8, pins 14 16 17 are okay for the SSR.

[Gerald D]

See this thread (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290) for connecting a SSR to the PMDX-122

[Greg J]

Thanks Gerald,

I sorta remember reading that thread. That's where I found out to use the SSR's in the first place. I need to start printing the threads/posts and puting them in the files of the different components.

Sorry about that. I know you are one busy person and I hate wasting your time.

Greg

[Gerald D]

PMDX GECKO.pdf:

1. Gecko company doesn't like their DC supply coming off a rail - they want separate feeds from the capacitor/s in the power supply.

2. The relay feed already discussed

3. The low-voltage E-stop does not get a dedicated 2-core cable - it shares with other cores coming off J5

4. Watch jumper positions (not shown) for G203 versus older G200 family.

Power Supply.pdf:

5. Minor point - schematic of regulated 9V section doesn't show regulator.

6. If the two SSR's are switched together, why not just get one?

7. Is 115V okay for your dust collector?

Router.pdf:

8. The switch for the router can be the original built-in switch.

9. The shields of the cable extensions must be connected to the next bit of shield.

[Greg J]

Gerald,

I have updated the 3 files, but still have a couple of questions.

Regarding your response 1. I'm assuming that a rail is a wire coming from the PS and I was "tapping" off that "rail". I changed the drawing to show 8 seperate wires coming from the PS and going to the Gecko's. Is that correct.

Regarding your response 2. I don't have a clue what your saying. I've read the PMDX manul 3 times and it still doesn't sink in. First, I thought the low voltage E-Stop needed its own shielded wire because, I have the second contact block on the E-Stop for main power shut off. Second, what does shareing wires coming off J5 have to do with anything. Doesn't the E-Stop get connect to J6? Maybe, because I have not determined what my jumper settings are at this time, .... heck, I don't know.

Regarding your response 3. I've added a "regulator" in the drawing, but I'm not a EE, (I'm an ME) so I'm purely guessing. I'm saying this, just so everyone knows. My PS's secondary output is 9VDC, regulated.

Regarding your response 6 and 7. I have not spec'd out a dust collector yet, so I thought I'd add a second relay/SSR. I don't know what kind of power the dust collector will use at this time. I just want to get the kitchen table project up and running first.

Thanks,
Greg

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[Gerald D]

Greg, can you mail me your .dwg? It is easier to explain the E-stop wire thing with a drawing, and easier if I start with your drawing.

[Gerald D]

I see from the time of your last post that you did this very late at night - maybe you are regret it in the morning...:)

For example: On the right side of the PMDX, you had the power suppy from the 9V regulated to the correct terminals in the earlier version, now it is moved to completely the wrong place. It was the connections to the SSR's that you were supposed to be moving.

[Marc Shlaes]

I just had a thought about the second SSR. "Regarding your response 6 and 7. I have not spec'd out a dust collector yet, so I thought I'd add a second relay/SSR."

Would a another reason to add a second SSR be to some day possibly add a vacuum hold-down system. I use vacuum bagging for laminating and it is unbelievably cool. I plan to add that at some point down the road.

The minor point is that "industrial" vacuum pumps seem to be 220v in the US. The 110v SSR could be used to activate a separate 220v SSR. Couldn't it?

However... as I think about it further, the vacuum needs to be pulling quite a bit before the router is activated so it should probably be a manual system.

[Richards]

Marc,
"Normal" 240VAC Solid State Relays are not designed to work with 1-phase 240VAC power in the U.S.A. Here, we have two 'hot' legs, but the SSR only controls one of the two 'hot' legs. That means that you could get a really good shock when you thought that the device was turned off. When I have to control 240VAC and want to use an SSR, I use the SSR to control the coil of the 2-pole relay or contactor. That way, both legs of the 240VAC 1-phase line are turned on/off.

Some people have tried using two SSR's controlled by the same digital output line to control 1-phase 240VAC. That is something that I would NEVER recommend. Things fail and if either SSR failed in the ON state, you could get a lethal shock.

[Gerald D]

Mike, your comment is very valid. That is something I never considered because I don't fully appreciate how different your 240VAC is from our 230VAC.

However, one solid pointer is emerging for me from this amateur DIY morass of dangerous ideas and schemes...... a good solid mechanical disconnect switch that isolates ALL the poles before working on ANY part of the system. . . .

. . . . . or a plug that can be pulled to kill everything (yes, also the Neutral, in case that was wired wrong too)

[Gerald D]

3. The low-voltage E-stop does not get a dedicated 2-core cable - it shares with other cores coming off J5


Regarding your response 2. I don't have a clue what your saying. I've read the PMDX manul 3 times and it still doesn't sink in. First, I thought the low voltage E-Stop needed its own shielded wire because, I have the second contact block on the E-Stop for main power shut off. Second, what does shareing wires coming off J5 have to do with anything. Doesn't the E-Stop get connect to J6? Maybe, because I have not determined what my jumper settings are at this time, .... heck, I don't know.

Made a rough sketch for you (don't need to send your drawing): This only gives a rough idea of why the PMDX E-stops do not get a special cable all to themselves. I am not trying to show definitve pin numbers or functions.

[Greg J]

aaaah, I get it. I never said I was a fast learner.

Yes, I may have been staying up late working on this project. But I'm having the time of my life. Its a blast.

My BOB arrived Monday, and the stepper motors arrived today!!:D

I'll correct those 9VDC outputs from the PS and take a break. I'll have many more questions when I actually start wiring up the "kitchen table" project.

Thanks for all your help,
Greg

[Greg J]

Gerald,

Just wanted to give an update on my progress (your probably getting tired of me by now :)). I've ordered ALL parts (terminal block, contact blocks, DIN rail, etc. etc.) for the kitchen project and waiting on delivery.

I'm "thinking" about welding up the Y-car. It really is a nice design. I remember seeing somewhere in this forum that you had "automobile" design experience. My back ground is "off shore". I get a kick seeing the different "influences" of this project.

Anyways, the deeper I get into this project, the more I learn. Can't express enough what a great job you've done.

Greg

[Gerald D]

Don't make me blush. :)

Have a bit of marine experience as well. During my 2 year military conscription, 79 & 80, I was the engineer of "Scratches" (http://navy.org.za/pages/scratches) (after the Chalky guy mentioned there), and became the project manager of various vessel design projects between 83 & 89. (biggest one was Drakensberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAS_Drakensberg_(A301)))

[Greg J]

Gerald or Mike,

I've put power to the control circuit (kitchen project). No smoke, no blown fuses, and no fires. Everything looks OK. There is one Gecko driver with a yellow light, but I can figure that out. My E-Stops work. I was in Mach 3 trying to get motors to turn and nothing happened. Well, the motors got hot, so hot that you almost couldn't touch them (please tell me I didn't damage them. They were hot for .... oh ... a couple of minutes). I E-Stopped everything and unplugged from the wall circuit.

Any suggestions as to which direction to start??

For future reference, I will be monitoring the motor housing temperature with a "heat gun".

Greg

[Gerald D]

Greg, did you fit the current limiting resistors to the Gecko's? If not, you were giving your motors 7 amps.

Read from post #8 to #18 in this thread:
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164

[Greg J]

Thanks Gerald,

For some stupid reason, I had in my head that the "vampire" did not require the resistor. I'll add the 12K ohm tonight and try again.

How do I check the motor for damaged? I'm afraid that if I just started the "cooking" process, the winding insulation may be 90%, or 80%, or 70%. At worst, I can switch to the other coil, but that housing got pretty hot.

Consider this my first tuition payment to the MechMate University.

Greg

[Greg J]

It's the capacitor that's not required for the newer Gecko's. Resistor still needed.

Oh well, its OK to make mistakes, ONCE. :o Learn and move on.

Greg

[Gerald D]

Greg, if it doesn't smell like burnt toast it is still okay. Those motors can handle temps where spit will sizzle on them 100oC [212oF]

The current limit jumper setting (when motors idle) is removed from the G203V as well.

[Greg J]

Gerald,

No burnt smell. My wife placed a table cloth down with a plastic top and it didn't melt.

Thanks for your input. I feel allot better now.

I'm also getting a kick out of the thread title changes.

I'll get the resistors today and try again. I'll also post pictures of my setup.

Greg

[Greg J]

The one and only aspect of being rural and out in the back country that I dislike.

I have my simulator project (kitchen project) waiting on a penny part. I actually have to order 12K resistors via the internet.

Where would I be without technology ..... Hmmmm.

[Greg J]

WoooHoooo ... I've got one of the motors to turn. Just using a simple jog comand (up, down arrow on the key board). Nothing is over heating and everything seems fine. Its only one motor that moves (no matter if its the up/down or left/right arrow), but that's just my Mach3 configuration.

Let me clean up my simulation/test area and do some sunday chores, then I'll post pictures tonight.

Geeez, who'd think that making a shaft turn on a stepper motor would set you on cloud 9. :D

Greg

[Gerald D]

:):):):):)

Ports & pins, ports & pins . . . . . .

[Greg J]

Ports and pins it was. You'll now have to change my thread title again to all motors operating.:)

I have X (only one until I figure out my driver issue), Y, and Z motors turning. I even have my E-stop getting back to Mach3. It was working before and shutting everything on the metal plate, but Mach3 was not recognizing it. It works now.

Here's my setup. Don't know why I used 4 E-stops. Only wired 2. I guess when your fabricating something, its just as easy to make 4, as it is 2.

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[Gerald D]

Cardboard under the motors now :)

I am fairly sure that you'll get that 4th drive working as well. Now that everything runs cool, you don't have to screw the Gecko to the heatsink for short tests. Plug it into another slot/motor and see what it does. But remember to switch off and let the power supply capacitors discharge before you fiddle with Gecko connectors.

Which box are you using? That white back panel with folded down edges is new to me. Nice edges, but don't know if there is enough space for circulating air with the stirring fan.

[Greg J]

Not to sure about that Gecko. I've already switched out motors and BOB slots. I have an inquiry into the Geckodrive forum on Yahoo. Newbies have to wait for the moderator to scan for spamers.

As for the box, it's just a stock one from factorymation. I over sized it because my designs are always conservative. I still have not received the cooling fan. Factorymation had a long delivery, so I went with trusty McMaster. Didn't read the fine print and it also had a long delivery. It should arrive this week. I'm mounting the fan on top of the white plate, so if more space is required, I'll raise the aluminum heat sink.

While I'm learning Mach3 and trouble shooting the Gecko, I'll be fabricating the table. Now the fun really begins.

I'm so close to carving wood ... wait till you see what I create. :)

Greg

[Gerald D]

When you swop Gecko's, do you slip the whole row of connectors off the header pins (unplugging), or do you undo wires one by one? The reason I ask this is because there was a time when connectors had worked loose from the header pins due to repeated unplugging and replugging, but that was a vendor problem and Gecko have since found better quality. So, make sure you are not having a bad connection problem there. (Recently someone found that he hadn't stripped a wire back far enough and the insulation was......ahem, insulating.)

[Alan_c]

Well done Greg.

I should get my Gecko's today then I am not far behind you...cant wait for that steppermotor motion rush.

[Greg J]

Gerald,

Excellent point !! On my Gecko and BOB connections, the conductors are all just striped bare wire. I took voltages across every tap and they matched the other drivers, but, I'll check again for proper installation. The final product will have all crimp-on pin connectors.


Alan,

I like that "steppermotor motion rush". Don't ever let the kid inside die :)

Be safe and have fun,
Greg

[Gerald D]

Have a look at this #7 post (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1117&postcount=7) to see how the connectors pull off the Gecko - very quick to swop gecko's to faultfind. Turn off power first.

[Greg J]

Thanks Gerald,

I'll troubleshoot tonight. This day job is getting in the way. :)

[Greg J]

Shipping a Gecko back to the farm. I've tried switching motors, wires, BOB slots, ... what else ... oh, drivers, etc. and it still looks like I fried a Gecko. I wonder if there is a prize!! :D Don't you get something for killing a Vampire ;)

I've received some questions about items used for my simulations, so here's the item, part number and source.

Saginaw Enclosure Subpanel, SCE-24P20, Factorymation.com
Handle, Yellow/Red, KSH48RY, Factorymation.com
Mushroom Operator (twist-to-release), BCR, Factorymation.com

Just for the record, my wife may be the brains of the outfit, but, I'm doing all the work. :)

I apologize if I'm not suppling enough information. If ANYONE, has questions, or just wants to know what something is, please ask.

Oh, I've received some metal / steel for the table fabrication today. I'll start welding Friday night! I'm changing the design a little. The legs on my MechMate will not be Channels. I'm using 2 inch x 3 inch x .120 thk tubing. I'll weld a nut on the inside bottom plate for the adjustable foot. Then seal weld it for final. Its a work in progress, it may change again.

Greg

[Gerald D]

Greg, I am not handing out prizes for killing the G203V - I didn't even recommend that you use it! :)

Will you let us know what Geckodrives finds wrong with it?

[Greg J]

Yes, as soon as I hear something from Gecko, I'll post.

Greg

[Greg J]

Started tack welding my table. Don't think I'll need the 45 degree struts because of the 2 inch x 3 inch x .120 wall rectangular tubing I decided to go with. Should be plenty strong (10 inches of weld per connection). Well, the more I look at it, I might add them.

Gerald, (anyone) what's your point of view? I just don't have a good feel of the stresses (bending, shear, etc) a CNC machine generates.

Waiting on my C Channels that should arrive this Tuesday.

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[Tom Caudle]

Make sure you have the correct value for the Current limit resistor on the Gecko's They default to 7A with no resistor. Motors should not get too hot to touch. Sitting still they should just get slightly warm. How may volts on the Power supply?

Sorry, not Gerald or Mike but I use Gecko's on a daily basis so jumped in. I also know MACH3 very well.

tomCAUDLE

[Greg J]

Thanks Tom,

I'll double check the current limiting resistor math. You never know!!

How are you progressing on your MechMate??

I've added the "gussets" to the table.
If nothing else, it looks cool (that's just me) :cool:

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[Marc Shlaes]

Greg,

It does look cool. You are progressing nicely. I can see you are going to do a beautiful job. I hope to start welding in about a week. I can't wait. I am waiting for a bunch of laser cut brackets.

I like the box tube. I plan to use it as well. I am going to follow Kim Mortensen's lead and bolt it all together. I will post pictures as soon as I start.

Marc

[Gerald D]

Started tack welding my table. Don't think I'll need the 45 degree struts because of the 2 inch x 3 inch x .120 wall rectangular tubing I decided to go with. Should be plenty strong (10 inches of weld per connection). Well, the more I look at it, I might add them.

If you are going to weld 10 inches per connection you are going to get some serious distortions - that is way too much welding that doesn't bring extra strength. A diagonal over a welded corner is MUCH better than a lot of welding in the corner. The diagonal can be much smaller tube - say 1"x1" in your case.

I hope you agree to the amount of welding specified for the gantry? :)

I like the box tube. I plan to use it as well. I am going to follow Kim Mortensen's lead and bolt it all together. I will post pictures as soon as I start.

Think carefully about bolting box tube - how to stop it from crushing if a bolt goes right through.

[Marc Shlaes]

Gerald, I plan to drill and tap 5-6mm wall. (Possibly weld nuts but more likely drill and tap)

Marc

[Gerald D]

5-6mm wall is very heavy stuff for box tubes and the biggest diam screws tapped into that wall is limited to about 6mm for full strength tightening. Welded nuts are needed for bigger screws.

[Marc Shlaes]

Gerald, I appreciate the additional thought. (even if this is in the wrong thread) I have to make up my brackets first (when the parts arrive) so I have a little time to make a decision on whether to use box or channel for the leg. You keep me thinking and that is good.

[Greg J]

Gerald,

Yes, you are correct on the welding. I'm thinking of "seal" welding the connections, so it should limit the heat and distortion. When I start the full weld up, I watch distortion carefully. May have to go with "plan B".

The gantry is strictly per the plans. :)

Thanks for the input.
Greg

[Doug_Ford]

When I was welding up the table, before I added the diagonals, I thought, "Wow. This thing is really rigid." But I could still detect some flex when I bumped it. However, when I added the diagonals in accordance with Gerald's plans, the table became as solid as a rock. I couldn't believe the difference they made. Gerald's a hell of a designer.

[Greg J]

Just received email from Gecko saying a package is on the way. Thats all the message said. Don't know if they are shipping a new one, or fixed the old one, or nothing was wrong. We'll see.

[Gerald D]

Hi Greg

Your mystery no.4 drive that went back under warranty, and which was found fault-free, have you got it working now?

[Greg J]

Believe it or not, I haven't even looked at it yet. Not that it takes that much time. Just have been concentrating on the table welding and rails / skate, etc. (I will have allot more free time for the MechMate come mid October)

Maybe I'll move it up the priority list and work on it this weekend. We'll see.

[Greg J]

Gerald,

Thanks to my air conditioning going out at the house, I've had some free time to work on that mystery Gecko (I had to be there for the service guy).

Everything is working! :) Well almost, all the motors turn, including the two for the X-axis (slave mode is working). The LED on that mystery Gecko does not light green. Everything seems to be working fine, just no green LED.

So, to summarize, the Gecko driver was never the problem. It was, oh, uh, lets just say operator error :o. It had to be a loose connection somewhere. I'm not going to worry about the driver with no green LED for now (unless someone tells me different).

Greg

[Greg J]

On another note, I was asking Gerald on another thread if the weight of the main beams could be reduced by drilling holes thru out the beam. The answer was no, so on to plan B (for reasons explained below).

I am now fabricating a very nice gantry crane. I found some plans from www.synthx.com ($15) and ordered the steel this morning. Pretty simple design and fabrication should take no more than one day (two max, excluding painting). The total cost is much less than buying one (less than $900) for everything (chain hoist, trolley, etc).

Its amazing that I had to strain the lower abdominal muscle to strengthen the one between my ears.

[Doug_Ford]

Greg,

Where are you? The last time we heard, you were going on an elk hunt. Did you give up building your MM?

[Greg J]

Hey Doug,

No, I haven't given up on the MechMate. I have given up on the "skate" though. My rail height is 1.00 inch (25.40 mm) and I just couldn't get a nice 45 degree edge. I tried everything, even Gerald's outriggers but couldn't do it. Other people we're kind enough to offer their skate/tool, but theirs was for taller rail heights and I didn't want to change the motor mounts or what ever parts change from a taller rail. So, after the holiday, I'm sending my "cut" angles (rails without 45 degree edge) to a machine shop. I know my limits, and I could spend another couple of months making another skate, but I rather build a MechMate than figuring out a tool.

I did finish my 1.5 ton Gantry crane, so moving and lifting this beast is not a problem. Also, my Steelmax steel cutting skill saw failed on me last week, so I completely dismantled the saw (a first for me), found the problem (fried brush contact spring due to loose fitting brush holder) and ordered parts and now it's operating better than when I bought it. Kinda makes up for the skate episode.

I'm currently cutting the cross channels and will be drilling holes shortly.

Nope, I'm not giving up on this baby. It is hard to watch everyone else's progress while I "putt" along, but I'll get there.

Thanks for checking up. I still check this site 3, 4, 5, 6 etc. times a day.

Greg

[Greg J]

Here's a quick picture of progress as of tonight. I've mounted the V-rollers on the gantry and Y-car. The gantry and Y-car have been mounted on the main table. I haven't done any adjustment to the gantry or Y-car, but its amazing how well both ride. :)

My Z-slide should be ready Tuesday or Wednesday. Its so nice to finally get to this stage of the project. :D

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[smreish]

nice looking machine. Congrats on your progress. I got my rails cut down and drilled today. I hope to look like your picture by next week. Sean

[Doug_Ford]

Greg,

Beautiful work. It feels great doesn't it?

[J.R. Hatcher]

Greg, it's looking very good. Did you opt not to put the 4 braces on the 2 sides or just haven't got to it yet? The adjustable feet look very substantial what are they?

[Greg J]

J.R.,

I didn't put the side bracing because the main table is fabricated from 2 inch X 3 inch [50.8mm x 76.2 mm] rectangular tubing. Those "square" welded joints have ample strength for the bending stresses.

Yes, I went over kill on the leveling feet. The insert on the bottom of the tube accepts 3/4 inch [19 mm] bolts. I just thought that the "recommended" feet (approx 200 to 300 lbs [90 to 136 KG] per foot "looked" small. Its only for looks. Also, the bigger feet cost the same as the smaller feet. Ordered from McMaster. I will get the Part Number is anyone wants it.

Sean and Doug,
Thanks. My wife is getting excited about actually cutting some wood some day.

[sailfl]

Greg,

Did you use Rectangle Tubing for the bed or X to X bracing?

Your table looks good.

[Greg J]

Niles,

If I understand your question correctly.

I used rectangular tubing for everything below the main beams and cross members. The main beams were 7 inch channel. The cross members were 3 inch channel. Both per drawing spec's.

[smreish]

...and my next build will use rectangular tube for the legs and sub-frame. Easy to get locally....easy to weld.
Sean

[Greg J]

And easy square cuts.

[Greg J]

OK Gerald,

Enough "tom-foolery". But MM Mechanical pencils would be chick magnets :cool:

Here's my progress report for tonight: While waiting on the Z-slide from a local ( 60 miles / 96.5 Km) machine shop, (they now say Friday), I'm trying to shim my X rails for proper gantry alignment and "ride".

With no shims, only 3 V-rollers, on the gantry, make contact with the X rails for .... 80% of the rails. The other 20%, rides perfect.

I added washers (shims) to the 80% and 80% rides perfect. 20% has 3 V-roller in contact. All shims have been added to one side only.

Just some observations of an evenings spent aligning the X rails. Have not completed the process, so more tomorrow.

[Gerald D]

Greg, good work, but don't go overboard now......

The final shimming of the x-rollers is when you get the gantry square to the x-rails (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231). For that you need the router/spindle to be fully operational.

Yes, it is not too early to get the x-rails straight and parallel, but you will be spending time later getting all the wheels to touch all the time. Funny, but when you tension the motor springs, the last gaps disappear, and then the whole alignment process is forgotten! :)

[Doug_Ford]

Greg,

Have you drilled your spider plate for the V rollers? I'm being held up now because the rollers opened up on me when I tightened the bolts that hold the spider plate to the car. I should have anticipated that happening. Think about it, if there is enough tolerance so that you can slide the spider plate into place, when you tighten the bolts, they're going to stretch the plate and pull the rollers farther apart. I used washers to take up the slack but there was still enough room to cause me a problem. I ended up having to grind off a couple of the nuts I had welded on to the back of the spider and reposition them.

Gerald, I had intended to start a separate thread to warn people about this but it sounded like Greg was getting close to the point where he might drill those holes so I figured I had better speak up. I'm in the process of waiting on the paint to dry in 40 degree F weather and then I was going to take some pictures and start the thread. I've also been wondering if anyone else had the same problem.

[Gerald D]

Very valid point Doug. Those holes must be drilled as "narrow" or as tight as possible. The laser markings with the triple cross-hairs was intentionally made "vague" so that the holes could be optimised. Some "gauge" plates are 4" [101.6mm], others are 100mm [3.937"], while the amount of metal removed during the V-profiling also has an influence.

Didn't someone else also grind off the nuts, plugweld the holes, and start again? I will have to say more on the drawing.

Edit: Found it: See post #41 this thread (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223)

[Greg J]

Gerald and Doug,

Thank you both very much. I always check the forum when getting home from the day job and before heading out to the shop. The plan for tonight was more X rail work. I'll hold off for now.

Thanks for the heads up on the spider plate Doug. Still waiting on the Z slide. Hopefully tomorrow. If it would have been done, I might have tried drilling those holes tonight.

Taking a vacation day tomorrow so I can frame up my equipment room ( I poured the foundation last weekend). It'll house the new dust collection system.

[Greg J]

Still haven't received my Z slide from "that" outside source. :mad:

Geeez, I hate relying on "things" outside my control.

Anyways, finished the framing and metal shell of the equipment room. Trim should show up this week. Next weekend, I'll finish trim, and make a nice wood door for the equipment room.

If the Z slide shows up this week, I'll work on that.


If you want something interesting to read, check out Doug's thread. That dude is cranking. :cool:

[Doug_Ford]

I'd kill to have my own space to house my machine. You are really going to have a nice setup. After you said you ordered a dust collection system, I got to thinking about it and I'm probably going to do the same thing. I'm ready to cut stuff now and I don't want to take on another fairly long term project like building a cyclone and blower. Good luck with your Z plate.

[Greg J]

Doug,

My wife's father was a contractor/cabinet maker. Old school. Never wore dust masks, etc. Pass away at 55 from lung issues. That's probably my number one reason why I want the dust control system up and running as soon as possible. And, I guess my wife wants me around awhile longer. :)

If you don't want to tackle a dust collection system at this time, invest in the best, positive seal dust mask.

[Greg J]

Finally received some calls yesterday from the machine shop that's fabricating my Z slide. Maybe today!

If Z slide is completed today, then tonight, I'll start work on slide tube. I want the Z slide so I can center punch the holes from the slide onto the tube. Trying not to get ahead of myself.

At this stage of the project, you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I just want to make sure it's not a train. :)

[Greg J]

Got my Z slide. Paid $100, just for everyone else's reference.

Also received my Shuttle Pro controller. Very cool. :cool:

That's all the house/computer time I can stand, off to the shop for the evening. :D

[Greg J]

Here's my latest progress report.

My top connection point for the gas spring is different. It's only tack welded, so I'll finish welding and clean it up.
850


851


I'm not satisfied with the transition of the X cable chain to the Y cable chain. This will probably change.
852


853


854


855


856


Just another pic of the gas spring connection point.
857


My leveling feet. I went with a larger size foot just for aesthetics. It's the pyramid concept. The base should be larger than the top.
858


All I did here was to square the ends of the main channel.
859

[smreish]

Greg,
Nicely done. You know what - I had my x chain routed the same way, then I switched it....I think I am going to switch it back to the way I had it. All the tapped holes are still in the main beams. I haven't plug welded them and repaired my "mistakes". I now have a new plan for tomorrow before I pull all the chain guides off and paint. Thanks for the inspiration.

---
...Wish I had a machine shop that would make that slide for 100 bucks. Thats cheaper than me making it in house!


Sean

[Alan_c]

Greg

Very very nice, good work. I like the look of the rectangular tubing for the legs, I may go for that option myself.

Alan

[J.R. Hatcher]

That is a nice looking machine. :cool:

[cobra427mnsi]

Greg
Very nice work! Looks Good. Keep the pictures coming. Oh, by the way, I like the picture of you smiling too.

Paul

[Greg J]

Sean, Alan, J.R., Paul,

Thanks. It's only because of individuals like these, that I've gotten this far.

The rectangular tubing is very handy for bolting on wheels. Four bolts around the tube. I'll post a pic when ready.

Thanks again guys.

[Doug_Ford]

She looks beautiful Greg. Looks like you'll be cutting before too long. That machinist did a great job on the Z plate too. The holes are consisently countersunk.

[Greg J]

Thanks Doug,

It really is exciting getting to this stage of the project. My wife is also excited. She is looking forward to when I get the software (Vectric). She will have a blast designing different "things". Very artistic woman.

[Greg J]

Progress Update: Finished lowering the X rail cable guides and tray this evening. It now rides below the X rail. I like it. Will post pic's this weekend.

Tomorrow night I'll start on the Y cable tray and routing.

Electrician is coming Saturday morning to start process of upgrading my shop power to 100 amp service.

On the home front: Wife is complaining that "grog" spending to much time in shop with MechMate. Burnt out light bulbs need changing. "Grog" say that woman work. "Grog" run like the wind. :D

[Greg J]

Getting close. Still allot of little things (make spring brackets, stub axle plate, counter sink some holes in Y car, etc.) May start painting this week.

Moved the X cable chain so its below X rail

900


Finished the Y cable chain.
901


Just another shot showing no visible X cable chain. Time to start cleaning up the shop and get that camper out there.
902

903


Still not happy with how the exit of the X cable chain is. It'll stay for now, because I don't know what else to do. When I figure something better, it'll change.
904

[Doug_Ford]

Looking great Greg. I know you're ready to paint and run the cables. Before you paint her, you might want to think about the places you will want welded nuts. For example, look at some of Gerald's pictures. One shows the E-stop/Pause/Resume button box which is mounted on a plate attached to his car above the motor. The plate appears to be bolted on and he either used welded on nuts or nuts with nylock inserts because the sheetmetal is too thin to thread. I wish I had welded on some nuts for my cable clamps too.

[Greg J]

Thanks Doug !!

I wasn't even thinking about things like that. It's really hard at this part to slow down and "THINK". I just want blue paint and something operating. I will take some time and think about welded nuts, etc. It's actually faster in the long run.

Again, thanks.

[Doug_Ford]

And it looks prettier in the end too.

[Gerald D]

I don't quite get the reason for welded nuts Doug - loose nuts & washers work okay?

[smreish]

nice looking cable chain. Funny, but doesn't that x axis set up just feel better?
Some very nice work happening in groggville. Good job. Sean

[Greg J]

I don't quite get the reason for welded nuts Doug - loose nuts & washers work okay?

Cool. I can't wait any longer. I really do hate grinding paint in preperation for welding, so I'll start painting parts that are finalized. :)

Just for the record, I'm cleaning all weld splatter by scraping (per the welding experts). It really is easy and a much better job than using a "flap" wheel.


Sean, it does feel better. My work doesn't even come close to Gerald's, J.R.'s, Doug's and, oh ya, Fabrica's. But I'm learning.

[Doug_Ford]

Gerald,

Just my personal preference I guess. I like to have welded nuts in locations where I can't see them or if they are difficult to put a wrench on.

[Greg J]

WOW !! The coveted 4 star rating.

You don't know how long I have been waiting for that. :D

[Greg J]

Ordered enclosures for controls and E-stop/pause/resume along with push button operators and contacts last night.

Just finished ordering all shielded cable from Doug's source (Lapp Tannehill, Inc). Prices have changed from what Doug quoted, not bad though. Excellent service!! 3 weeks delivery.

I will order crimp tools, connectors, etc tonight.

Maybe start painting Weds. evening.

[Greg J]

This is how I move my MechMate around the shop.


954

[javeria]

very nice idea Greg, I was thinking how to get things moving! and there u give us alll ideas !

Regards
Irfan

[Greg J]

Thanks Irfan,

I'm not as strong as J.R., :) so had to figure something out.

Outside my shop is dirt and gravel. Haven't tried it there yet, but that's why I went with pneumatic tires.

[Gerald D]

An idea from trailers:
http://www.china-manufacturer-directory.com/picture/trailer-jack-bolt-thru-swivel-mount-jack.jpg

[smreish]

Gerald,
Love that idea. Time to buy 4 of those too.

Northern Tool - 16 dollars each. That's cheaper than a real caster.

[Greg J]

Sean,

Paid 12 USD/ea (Northern Tool) for my casters. No jack with mine, so probably a better deal with Gerald idea.

Not a big fan of those type "jack stands". Failure point is at the wheels when used on rough ground. Check out any horse/livestock trailer.

P.S. - Looking forward to your pictures of first project. :)

[javeria]

Greg, your casters seem to be made for much more load capacity. What Gerald has posted are mostly for support to the trailer when not hinged.

G' and all..... will these take care of the load of the completed mechmate?
I might just add them to my shopping list!

RGDS
Irfan

[smreish]

Greg,
Funny how the environment we reside in ultimately dictates the machine we are building.
I see your point perfectly about using pneumatic tires for you machine base knowing your location and access to terra firma. I, on the other hand...have a nice concrete floor/driveway/parking lot between all my buildings. Also, I really don't plan on moving it more than once!
Redoing all the square, level and resurface after each move would get old pretty quick :)

Sean

[Greg J]

Yes sir,

I'm getting there. I finished framing up some walls and dry walling a new home for the beast. Tonight, I finished the stop blocks and ordered the prox. sensors, relay and cable ( ordered a shorter Prox for the Z, thanks). Tomorrow will finish the last little Y end stops. Friday, I'm taking off work to farm. Sat. and Sun. are for painting the beast.

Almost forgot, shielded cable came today. :D

[Greg J]

Applied two coats of primer on the "little" parts using "rattle" can. Looks good.

My Harbor Freight gravity sprayer has not arrived yet. Couldn't wait any longer so ran into town and bought 8 rattle cans of primer for the table. Dumb idea (first one so far :rolleyes:) Took about 4 hours for one coat. It looks good, but would not use "rattle cans" for large projects. The cost in beer alone, busted my budget. :)

[smreish]

rattle cans are convienent, but that darn 2" inch spray pattern will kill ya! Glad to hear everything is progressing nicely.
Stefan is flying in to the states next week and coming by for an inspection with Nils, I hope I don't disappoint anyone :0

Its easy to think your doing a good job when their is no one else around to give you feedback!

[sailfl]

Having see Sean machine in operation, Sean is not going to disappoint anyone. I will see you on Monday. We just need a time Stefan??

[Greg J]

Have fun in sunny Fl. guys !!

Yesterday was a perfect day for painting. 80 deg F. Today ... snow on the ground :eek:

Maybe I can make a "make shift" spray booth in the shop ... Naaa, I'll just wait till Thursday. Taking off work to babysit electricians that will finish upgrading shop power. Woo Hoo. :D

[sailfl]

Greg,

I have to do one of those electrical upgrades also but I think I will do it myself. Nothing like a little electricity to get you body moving.

We came out of a cold and I think it will hit 80s today. Not yet HOT!!! Summer will be here soon.

[Greg J]

Nils,

I do 99% of my own wiring also. The electricians will replace/upgrade the main breaker box. An easy job, but, the pro's know the subtleties.


Update: Harbor freight gravity sprayer still hasn't arrive. Hopefully tomorrow. Today, I had a weak moment at the paint store and bought another/different high gloss top coat paint. Lets see if its worth it. :)

[ekdenton]

Looks real nice Greg, looks like you should have it up and running soon.:)

[Greg J]

Geeez, was hoping to apply another coat of primer while electricians do their thing. But, it's snowing again.

Saturday "should" be in the 60's and 70's deg F. I may try and get by with only one coat of primer and apply top coat Saturday. I have two coats of primer on all the "small" parts so they are good. The base table has two coats of primer on the bottom surfaces. The top and side surfaces do have good coverage with one coat.

I hope this isn't a mistake. I really want to start assembling / leveling / squaring / etc. Sunday.

[Greg J]

Upgrade to 90 amp service at shop is completed. "Other" non-MM projects also completed.

Saturday's weather is looking good for top coat painting. Sunday is for final setup / leveling / squaring / etc. of my new MechMate. :D

I think your going to like "the beast's" new home. A dedicated area, purpose build for a new MM, new drywall, fresh paint, good lighting, a new dust control system. What more could a man want. :D

[Gerald D]

. . . . What more could a man want. :D

. . . . . . a stack of scrap in the corner, and the customer's payment cleared by the bank! :D:D

[Greg J]

. . . . . . a stack of scrap in the corner, and the customer's payment cleared by the bank! :D:D

1054 Shhhhhh ...

I don't want my "day job" to get wind of this. :) Oh how fun that day will be, going to the bank, that is. I'll miss the friends I've made.

[Greg J]

Painted all parts today, but, thought I'd show this one. I'll touch up where the wheels are attached in the shop when the table is level.

Had a great day. :D

1057

[Marc Shlaes]

Well done Greg. Your weather is soooo much better than mine. Approaching a meter of snow and still going.

[Gerald D]

Love the light, and the Ford tractor blue out in the fields . . . . :)

[sailfl]

Greg,

Very sharp looking table and great view in the back ground.

Marcs comment about the snow in Ohio. I am from Ohio and when I hear the weather report that talks about 10" already on the ground and it is going to snow all day and night, it makes me rejoice that I live in the SUN SHINE state.

Just drive carefully.!..

[Doug_Ford]

Looking great Greg. Even with the wheels, I bet that table is a bear to push on gravel with 4 swiveling casters.

[Greg J]

Thanks Guys.

Those pneumatic tires worked out great. It moves quite easy. All four swivel, and it spins on a dime (10c Rand).

Oops, better give update. Today is setup day. I'll place the base table in its permanent location and take the wheels off. I will level and attach the X rails. Mount the V-roller on the gantry and adjust to X-rails.

Almost forgot. I had better mount the 1 inch MDF support board to the cross members. Anyways, I have all pieces of the puzzle. No waiting on parts and it's only up to me.

[J.R. Hatcher]

Greg if you are going to seal the support board bottom and edge pre assembly is the best time.

[Greg J]

J.R.,

Seal the MDF support board? You lost me on that one. Is it necessary?

New Mexico is desert, low humidity, so may not be issue here.

[Marc Shlaes]

Greg,

It is not to protect it. It is to enable a future vacuum system. If you don't seal the bottom and sides, you will lose vacuum. I will write more about the vacuum system that JR designed. It is a take off on something that Mike Richards pointed him to. It works really well!

I did the CAD file and can post the DXF soon. Simple yet highly effective in initial tests.

[Greg J]

Thanks Marc,

OK, now it makes sense. I've got plenty of sealer/paint. Simple enough at this stage.

I won't be mounting the X-rails today. Have some touch up painting to do. I'll seal the bottom and sides of the support board today also.

Again, Thanks. The support from this forum is great!!

[Gerald D]

. . .still have irrigating to do at midnight . . .

Is that timing because of sharing a river/canal with neighbours? Our farmers (in certain areas only) are allocated times when they are allowed to pump or draw water. I am always fascinated by these complexities of farming.

I also irrigate my garden late at night (11 pm). But that is because I recycle the "grey" water and pump that out of a tank. Could be smelly and the pump is slightly noisy - had to find a time where neighbours wouldn't object to smell or noise. :)

[cobra427mnsi]

Greg, it may be cold in Canada, but we don't have to ration water.:) We have oodles of fresh water. Although most of it is a little hard right now:D. I don't know which is better: warmth or plenty of water. I guess we all have good things and not so good things to deal with where we live.

Paul

[Greg J]

The timing is weather related. No more freezing at night. :D

We flood irrigate thru concrete canals. Mr. Hagerman started our canal system over 100 years ago. Plenty of water from wells, as long as you pay for the water rights and pumping costs.

Since we flood irrigate, water is flowing 24 hours per day until done. Everyone is going to those large pivot irrigations systems. Very efficient on water usage and no labor costs. For our little operation (35 Acres of irrigated. Not that I have time for any more) the payout on one of those system is too long (10 years). So we stick with the manual way of moving siphon tubes. The same way the ancient Egyptians irrigated. If it's not broke, don't fix it. Beside, we could use the exercise :)

Let me get a pot of coffee in me, and I'll head to the shop for some MM work. :)

[sailfl]

Greg,

What are you growing?

[Greg J]

Nils,

Thread was starting to drift on the Y gantry thread, so I'll reply here. (moved the "drifts" to here as well)

I'm rotating out an old alfalfa field with an oat hay crop. This fall, I'll plant another alfalfa crop and that will last about 5 years. We got 7 years on the one we're rotating. It is a money making crop.

Wife cornered me into doing tax stuff all morning. :mad: Now I'm headed to shop.

[Greg J]

Hope this is right. This is Greg's wife. We just got home from the hospital, he had to have his appendix removed last night around midnight. All went well, we are just both pooped. He wanted me to let the mechmate group know. Take care, Karen for Greg J.

[cbboatworks]

Hope this is right. This is Greg's wife. We just got home from the hospital, he had to have his appendix removed last night around midnight. All went well, we are just both pooped. He wanted me to let the mechmate group know. Take care, Karen for Greg J.

Greg

Hope all is well and you recover quick. Take care


cbboatworks@aol.com

[domino11]

Greg,
Hope you are feeling better soon. :)

Heath.

[revved_up]

Here's to a speedy recovery. Get well there will be time to finish your machine later take the time to heal right and everything else will fall into place.

[smreish]

greg. Hope all is well. Don't lift anything heavier than a coffee mug for at least a week. Your abs will thank you. Get well. Sean

[Roadkill_321]

Hey Greg, hope you heal up fast and are able to get back to your MechMate. Best wishes
John

[Gerald D]

Hi Karen & Greg
Sorry to hear of the Easter emergency. Hope that everything heals well and that you can back to farming soon. The alfalfa won't be as patient as the MechMate :)

[sailfl]

Karen,

You did good.......

Greg,

Happy to hear you are patched up and will be feeling better soon.

[J.R. Hatcher]

I'm glad that all is well.

[Doug_Ford]

Greg,

I hope you recover quickly.

Good job Karen.

[Marc Shlaes]

Greg / Karen

Although this group likes pictures... You can spare us these. :eek::D

Greg, rest up good luck! Give it time and let us know how you are doing!

Marc

[ekdenton]

Hey Greg,

I am happy to hear your okay and the operation went well. I'm praying for a speedy recovery for you!:)

[Greg J]

Thanks Guys.

Abdomen is pretty tight. No heavy lifting for a couple of weeks.

Nows a good time to catch up on some reading. Currently reading "CNC Programming Handbook" by Peter Smid. It's quite riveting. :)

[smreish]

...also a good time to watch all the Mach 3 Online tutorials. Very helpful!
Sean

[Gerald D]

Hi Greg

Hope that everything is healing well and that Karen has stopped nursing you? :)

[Greg J]

Just got home from another week in the hospital and another surgery.

Had major complications and abscess. Worst week of my life. Didn't eat anything for a week. :eek: Had first food this past Saturday. I'll spare the details.

So glad to be home and recovering for real. :D Extremely weak and will take awhile to gain strength back. You can't believe how nice it is to check in. :)

Getting tired. I'll get back to the beast soon.

Oh yea, while in the hospital, my buddy said that if my spirit didn't start getting better, he was going to hang a picture of the MM in the hospital room. :)

[Robert M]

Sending down to you & Karen from are great white north, all my best positive vibesss.
Wishing you a better long term recovery and Karen some rest !

[Doug_Ford]

Glad to hear you're back home and feeling somewhat better. We've missed getting to read your input.

[sailfl]

Greg,

Hang in there. Sorry to hear you had more health problems. It is hard to do but be patient and give yourself time to recover.

You better teach your wife how to use the MM.

[revved_up]

Its good to hear some positive news, we sometimes take it for granted how fragile life really is. The best of wishes to yourself and your family.

[Roadkill_321]

Hey Greg,

Sorry to hear about the complications, all the best to you and yours down there.

Get well soon! :)

John

[jbmclain]

Greg, stay out of the hostpital....they will try to kill you.:eek:

If those doctors saw the quality of work that you were doing with your MM, they would be jealous.;)

Take it easy!!
Joe

[domino11]

Greg,
Take it easy and I hope all stays well with you from here on in.

[Gerald D]

Hi Greg and Karen, I must admit that I was a bit apprehensive when you went quiet for 2 weeks. Sorry to hear of the setback, but glad to hear you are on the real path to recovery now. Take it easy.

[Greg J]

Thanks Guys,

It is so wonderful to be home and eating :).

I miss my shop and so close on completing the MM. It's amazing how little energy I have. For now, I can only walk out to the shop and look at the beast. Still, just looking at the MM lifts my spirits. :)

Thanks again,
Greg and Karen

[Greg J]

Finally back working in the shop. You have no idea how great it feels to be working on the MM and listening to a baseball game in my shop. :D

Anyway, I've got the gantry trued and riding the rails very nice. All 4 V-rollers are in contact. Thanks Gerald, I couldn't have done it without your help.

I clamped 3 corners using C clamps and wood blocks. Since the Channel had angled edges, a small wood shim on the lower edge of the clamp made the clamps hold strong. On the corner requiring adjustment, I used another C clamp and made small adjustments. Overall, I move the corner 1.779" for a 0.253" adjustment. That was too much, so I just went to the corner needing adjustment and made the correction. Very simple and straight forward.

I had to add weight to the table because the table was flexing. I used weights from my tractor (Doctor said I can only lift 20 lbs, and the tractor weights have handles for the gantry crane). I added 200 lbs (90 kg) to the corner that I was making adjustments and its diagonal. 400 lbs total.

I hope that helps anyone that has twist in there gantry.

1216

[Gerald D]

Hi Greg, great to have you back!

[Greg J]

Thanks Gerald.

Tonight I'll repaint the gantry, enclosure door, and touch up the table. Tuesday evening, I'll get my butt in gear and start finally assembly. Shouldn't take too long. Maybe start wiring by Thursday.

[Jason Marsha]

Hi Greg glad to hear you are back to work. Is that a picture of Gerald in the background?

Jason

[Gerald D]

Nah, it is his dartboard.

[domino11]

Gerald,
Do we all need a dartboard in our shops? :rolleyes: What is the official size? :)

[Gerald D]

postage stamp size, painted full blue to hide that face!

[Gerald D]

On the opposite wall, Greg probably has a pic of his prize cow :p

[Greg J]

Actually, I didn't get inspiration, so I accepted entertainment. ;)

[Greg J]

Have everything wired up, but troubleshooting.

When I press the on switch, the contactor does not engage (at least that's what I think it is). All E-Stops are in normal condition. I've gone over the wiring schematic numerous times. Everything seems fine. Just have the blinders on.

I'll get it figured out, but any suggestions are helpful.

[smreish]

Greg,
Does the system fire up when you manually depress the contactor in the center of the relay?
If so, it's a wiring issue in your e-stop / pushbutton loop.
If it doesn't, then it's an issue with your power feed into and out of the contactor to the power supply/transformer.

Good luck.

Send a pic, I might be able to help if I can see most of the wires.
Sean

[ekdenton]

Hey Greg,
thanks for stoping by Sat., to check out the MM.

Sounds like something very simple, you will get it...
maybe try checking voltage from the source to the contactor relay, sounds like that relay is not getting voltage to operate the contactor. If that is what is happening you may need to go over the wires behind the pushbuttons going to the relay, light, and the estop circut.

I printed a copy of the wiring page and checked each wire and highlighted it if it was correctly wired. That is an easy way to troubleshoot if there are alot of wires the same color and it starts gets confusing.

Hope you get it!!

[Doug_Ford]

Greg J,

Your problem sounds exactly like the problem I had with my contactor. Are you absolutely sure it is hooked up correctly? Reread my posts about my contactor and look at the photos I took. There are connections on the rear of the contactor that I and someone else missed. I think it may have been Sean.

Good luck.

[Greg J]

Thanks Guys,

I'll double check everything tonight when I get home.


Ed,
Thanks for the hospitality and you've got one nice MechMate.
I think that qualifies as the first meeting of the Southern Rockies / Desert chapter of the MechMate Builders Association (MBA). I always wanted a MBA. :)

[smreish]

Doug.....yep - it was me.
The CN 9, 11, 22 and 25 contactors all have the A1/A2 coil contacts UNDER the relay. VERY easy to miss and inadvertently wire the coil contact to the NC/NO auxiliary contact on the far right hand side of the 3 pole contact block.

A mistake that is easily missed. This was the REAL reason I asked if you can manually engage the contactor by pushing the block in. :)

[ekdenton]

+1 on that I did the same thing when doing the kitchen table project and had to go to the factorymation website and recheck the wiring diagram for the contactor, and caught my mistake.

Okay on the MBA but do we have to grow beards:eek:.....the itching the chaffing

[sailfl]

Did you guys come up with a hand shake when you had the MBA meeting for the Rockies? Shouldn't it be MMBA?

I suppose we need T-Shirts and Hats!

[Greg J]

Test 1 - I checked the E-Stop loop by taking the ohm meter and performing a continuity check. When the three E-Stops on the gantry are not engaged, I get a closed loop (meter beeps). When any one of the three E-Stops IS engaged, I get a open loop (no beep on the meter).

Test 2 - With power to 4T2 and 2T1 of the contactor, I can depress the contactor in the middle of the relay and power everything. The fan works, the drivers have power, etc. A1 and A2 are utilized.

Test 3 - I've rechecked the wiring to the schematic and it looks good (not saying that if I check it again, I might find the problem :))

Here are a couple of pictures.

1469

1470

[smreish]

Greg,
Just for giggles...check to make certain that your CN-22 contactor is the correct voltage. I assume you are using 110V coil? On occasion, factorymation/automation direct have been known to mislabel a relay or two.

Greg....I was studying your picture. I assume the back of the front panel block is the on/off block. With that said...Does L3 go to center blcok or to the start block.?

110V - US schematic for reference.1471

[Greg J]

Sean,

First, thanks for your help. First beer at the MM conference is on me. :)

Question 1 - Yes, the CN-22 is the correct voltage. I had everything working in the kitchen project.

Question 2 - The back of the front panel does show the on/off block. The left block is the NO (on) block, the center is the light block, the right block is the NC block (off). L3 goes to the off or NC block. T3 (the other white wire) goes to the NO (on block)

Additional test - Continuity check between T2 and A2 is open when NOT pressing the on switch. When the on switch is press, the circuit is closed. I did this test to make sure the contactor coil was getting current when the on switch was pressed.

I also check continuity on the BOB, J6 between E-stop and GND. When E-stops are not engaged, the circuit is closed. When the E-stop is engaged (pressed) the circuit is open.

[Alan_c]

Okay on the MBA but do we have to grow beards:eek:.....the itching the chaffing

Beards are optional, but if grown, they must be grey - its in the terms of use agreement right after painting the MechMate blue...:D:D:D

[domino11]

Beards are optional, but if grown, they must be grey - its in the terms of use agreement right after painting the MechMate blue...:D:D:D

Oh good,
Dont think I could grow anything but grey these days! :eek::)

[Greg J]

I always tell people, "it's not grey, it's silver". :)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Yes Silver in the hair, gold in the teeth and lead in the feet at our age.

[Greg J]

And titanium holding the internal joints together. :cool:

[sailfl]

Greg,

Beside your contactor is a Magnecraft unit. What are you using it for and can you provided some additional information.

Thanks

[ekdenton]

Greg, something doesn't look quite right on the contactor wiring. Hard to orient because it it upside down to how I did mine but check the following wire I think it is on the wrong side of the light contactor. I think the neutral or N wire should go to the side of the light that doesn't go to the NO or on button. I checked mine and the diagram is how I am wired at the contactors

[ekdenton]

oops the bottom wire on the on button or NO contactor I forgot to label, it goes to L3 on the contactor

[smreish]

ED....I that's what I was trying to figure out...I think that might be it.
Greg?

[ekdenton]

and check the white wire on the top of the NC, I think it should go to the top of the NO if that wire goes to T3 on the contactor. Hard to see where the wires are going to the contactor in the photo

[ekdenton]

I see one other thing to check. on the light contactor there is a white wire on top and a black wire on the bottom, but at the contactor relay there are two white wires. Check to see but one contactor relay wire should go to one side of the light and the other contactor relay wire should go to the other side of the light. So being that the colors don't seem to jive in the photo maybe check those also.

[Greg J]

Thanks again guys.

I will check when I get home this evening.

It sure is nice to have an extra set of eye's to troubleshoot.

[Doug_Ford]

Greg,

You do have it plugged into the wall right? And is there power at the outlet?

[Greg J]

Thanks Guys,

I finally got it!!! I had the off (NC) switch wired wrong.

I like detailing my mistakes, because if one person who thinks they don't have the confidence, or expertise to build a MechMate, decides to actually take the adventure and fabricate "the beast", then maybe, ... just maybe, ... engineering can change humanity for the better. OK, so I've had a couple of beers. This is cool stuff.

Sorry for the rambling.

The off (NC) switch was wired wrong. I tried wiring per Ed's suggestions, but only made the lights in the shop slightly dim. Talk about pucker factor. :)

The next step was to totally rewire the on/off switch. No big deal, but it's interesting that I checked the wiring ... oh, 5 times, and it looked good. Once I started to re-connect the wires, the light bulb over the head went off, and I saw the problem. You have to have a beer after a moment like that. :) Anyways, I finished the rewiring and everything worked great. the E-stops work. The motors turn. The pause/start buttons are getting to the computer. It was a good evening.

[ekdenton]

Thanks Guys,


The off (NC) switch was wired wrong. I tried wiring per Ed's suggestions, but only made the lights in the shop slightly dim. Talk about pucker factor. :)



Glad you got it fixed:), sorry if the wiring drawing misled, I went out opened my box and took my wire ties off my contactor wiring and marked each wire where I have mine, and rechecked with the wiring plan. I will take a look again today and make sure I didn't do the drawing incorect.

[ekdenton]

Hi Greg,
I checked my drawing with how I have mine wired and with the plan again, and it all checks out. The wire coming from the contactor T3 can be wired to either to the on or off button contactors as long as it is on the same side as the above drawing(opposite the estop and L3). When I marked T3 and L3 on the drawing I didn't explain but that is the third or unused legs on the contactor if your using the three pole contactor. Again sorry for any confusion.

I ordered my dust collector yesterday.:):) And I have an order for a tube amp that I will be using the MM to make the logo badge and faceplate for:D

yeahoo my first paying job with it.

[domino11]

ED,
Do you do a lot of work with tube amps? Guitars, tube and solid state amps are one of my hobbies. I deal with sonar frequency high power amps at work.

[Greg J]

Ed,

Thanks for the help. Don't worry about any confusion. No big deal.

A paying job. I hope to be saying the same thing in the near future.

[Greg J]

Trying to attach the racks using the 3M4955 VHB Tape. Maybe got a bad roll, but it is not going to work. Not very sticky and will not hold the rack.

I'm removing the thin clear plastic that protects the tape, but still not very sticky. Am I missing something in the application? Very strange.

Guess I'll get some silicone and attach like Ed.

[ekdenton]

Works good but needs to be clamped and let cure overnight.

I couldn't get the tape to work either:(.

[Greg J]

Wondering if we just didn't get the metal to metal tape?

Waiting on silicone. The racks are the last thing I have to do, was expecting to cut some wood today. Looks like tomorrow.

[J.R. Hatcher]

Did you rub down both surfaces with denatured alcohol and let them dry? From what I understand the longer it's held together (like overnight) the stronger the bond gets???

[smreish]

Odd, I use VHB the 4952 (hard to bond surface) version almost daily without fail. On occassion I have the humidity issue to deal with causing the paper tape to not come off so easily. I doubt that is an issue you have in the desert.

Was it really tacky before you put it on? Or just a little sticky?

Either you had a bad roll or your surfaces had residue.

JR.
Your correct, just like masking tape, it has a oxidizing activator in the glue surface that begins to cure after 24-72 hours.

I hope to see happy cutting pictures tomorrow.

Sean

[sailfl]

VHB 4952 is actually for plastics and paint according to the 3M site.

[Greg J]

I cleaned both racks and mating surface with Acetone.

The tape had less tack than blue painters tape.

Anyways, have racks clamped and will re-assemble motors tomorrow and play. I went with the 35 teeth pinions, so I need to be mindful of the speeds.

I already have a guy at work that wants a guitar made. Not a paying job yet, just for the fun of it. :)

[dmoore]

Trying to attach the racks using the 3M4955 VHB Tape. Maybe got a bad roll, but it is not going to work. Not very sticky and will not hold the rack.

The correct metal-to-metal 3M VHB tape is #4611. There are some posts somewhere talking about the different versions of VHB. I used 4611 and it worked fine.

[Greg J]

Thanks David,

Just the wrong type of tape.

Little update: It's 03:00 am here and couldn't wait (actually irrigating again). Have all clamps removed and racks look good. Re-assembled all motors and went for a test drive. Everything seems to be operating fine.

Later today, I'll set soft limits, setup prox's, and router. After that may try and cut a "canned" G code from Mach.

[Gerald D]

Keeping an eye on this one ! :)

[Greg J]

Greg,

Beside your contactor is a Magnecraft unit. What are you using it for and can you provided some additional information.

Thanks

Niles,

Sorry about not answering your question. No excuse. :o

The Magnecraft unit besides the contactor is a solid state relay for the router. Very simple connect. I can not remember what pin numbers it connects to at this time. All my documentation is in the shop.

As for guitar making, it'll be an electric. I've been teaching my CAD operator 3D and he's getting pretty good. When we produce one, I'll post results.

OK, let me get a couple cups of coffee in me and off to play.

[Greg J]

Had a great day. Getting the homing/limit "check box's" took a little time, but, my wife and I got it. :)

Had issues with the X and A motors syncing, but figured it out.

Keeping an eye on this one ! :)

Did a dry run on the "road runner" (canned program) that comes with Mach, but I'll be Damn'd if that's gonna be my first "christening" of the beast.

I don't know about the SA Navy, but where I come from, this beast entering new service, requires something special for it's launch date.

Let me learn Vector Art (A week or so), and I'll post pictures.

[Greg J]

Had some issues with purchasing the Vectric products, but got it figured out and downloaded some software. :)

Playing with VCarve Pro tonight and having a blast. Conducted a "dry run" on a very simple G code and everything looked good. Well, not everything, ... need to clean up racks, tune motors, etc.

Dust Control System: Painted the ClearVue MDF parts MM blue tonight. :D No offense Gerald, but I'll be glad when all my rattle cans of MM blue are used up. My shop needs another color. :)

[Gerald D]

When someone gets to the stage that Greg is at now, I enjoy going back to the first post in the "personal" thread and re-reading the whole thing. Interesting that the first post is often a year back.......

"Did a dry run on the "road runner" (canned program) that comes with Mach, but I'll be Damn'd if that's gonna be my first "christening" of the beast.

I don't know about the SA Navy, but where I come from, this beast entering new service, requires something special for it's launch date."

Yup, you don't launch a ship with cheap champagne, even if it all gets spilled onto the dock. :)

[Greg J]

Here's my first (well, not quite), work that I feel like posting a picture. The cut quality is not good enough for a close up picture, but I'm still learning feed rates, VCarve Pro, etc. etc.

You should have seen the quality before I figured out my Y motor grub screw (set screw) was loose. I was starting to get real mad, until something Ed said, made me check the motors. THANKS ED.

Gerald, I will get the MechMate logo within the next couple of weeks. But there is dust on the machine now. :D

On a technical note: The Milwaukee router is a dream. Very quiet.

1527


1529

[Alan_c]

Greg

Fantastic, very neat setup, I especially like your control cabinet, break out the champagne. :cool:

[domino11]

Greg,
You machine is looking great. I still get a smile when I see that picture up on your wall. :)

[Greg J]

Thanks Alan,

The shop is a mess, and I still have a bunch of clean up to do on my setup. Just couldn't wait any longer to start making dust. :)

Not much on the Champagne, (no offense to our French builders, I do enjoy the fine wines :)) but it's beer for today.

[Greg J]

Thanks Heath,

The picture keeps the mood in my shop light, when things aren't going just right. :)

[cobra427mnsi]

That is impressive! Very nice, Greg.
Which milwaukee router did you use ?

Paul

[Greg J]

Paul,

The Milwaukee router is a 5625 (5 hp). They probably have upgraded by now, but it's amazing how quiet it is. I have not required hearing protection yet. I can still hear a ball game on the radio. :D
Oh, how I love this time of year. :D:D:D

[smreish]

Greg,
Fantastic! It's a nice feeling isn't it?
Did you get that cabinet from Global? If so, how do you like the quality? I need a few of those for the production floor in our new facility.

Keep up the fantastic work.

Sean

[Greg J]

Sean,

That cabinet is from McMaster. I'm the biggest fan of McMaster, but, I would not buy that cabinet again. The draw for the key board and mouse is not big enough. Other than that, I like it fine. I really like the flat surface on top. The top surface is great for storing my files, binders, etc. etc.

OK, I would buy this make of cabinet again. :)

[Greg J]

Here's a sample in oak, with one coat of tong oil.

You don't have to worry J.R., my dreams will never interfere with your business.

1530

[J.R. Hatcher]

No worries mate, everything looks great.

[Roadkill_321]

Greg,

Thats a pretty sweet looking router you got there. Congrats on finishing it up and all the best to you on your business venture down there. :)

[Gerald D]

Jeesh, I wish you had a photo of me with a big smile, because that is what I have on my face right now. Well done!

[Alan_c]

The champagne is for the machine, the beer is for you (ref post 214).

[Doug_Ford]

CONGRATS Greg!!!!! Beautiful work. Now get to work on that dust collector.:)

[smreish]

Yeah Greg, I bet if you get a long enough hose - Doug's can work for you too!:D
You know I'm kidding right guys?!

...it's the envy in me that keeps me going :)

[Greg J]

Thanks Doug and Sean,

I hung the motor and cyclone yesterday. Will run electical and duct work this week in the evenings. Maybe fire the unit up by the mid/end of the week.

If you see a huge low pressure develop over New Mexico, it's just Ed and I operating our dust collection systems. :)

[ekdenton]

Good Job Greg, Looks like it is cutting well. I had to put the dust collector on hold I just got in 50,000lbs. of steel that I have to put away LOL.
Where are you getting the Mechmate logo's at? They have shops that cutt the plastic lettering here but I don't remember seeing the logo anywhere while reading threads except for on the actual builds.

[smreish]

Ed,
Any *sign fast or quick sign* shops will cut for a nominal fee.
But, Since you happen to have a working CNC table....why don't you just CNC cut a "paint mask" template out of very thin material and paint your logo?
....just a thought to save a few bucks.

Sean

[ekdenton]

good idea sean, does anyone have a dxf file of the logo:)

[smreish]

Ed,
In the CAD and Logos section of the forum you will find it.
If you PM me your email, I will be glad to send you the cleaned up version I made for my machine files. :)

[Gerald D]

Any/all of the dxf drawings (intended for the laser cutters) have the logo in the title block.

[smreish]

...Gerald, I forgot about the titleblocks! Oops.

[ekdenton]

thanks sorry for the clutter on your personal page greg:o

[Greg J]

Ed,

Not a problem.

[Greg J]

Man, do I like McMaster Carr. :D

This company has it's act together. Their UPS Ground is so much faster than other's. McMaster's computerized system is so optimized that I can place an order in the evening, place another order the next day, and both shipments arrive in the same package.

I have placed thousand's of dollars with them and never had a problem. That's incredible considering the normal US business has shifted Quality Control to the customer.

I ordered "A bunch" of bits that will arrive this Friday. Oh, this is gonna be a great weekend. :D:D:D

[dmoore]

Man, do I like McMaster Carr. :D

This company has it's act together. Their UPS Ground is so much faster than other's. McMaster's computerized system is so optimized that I can place an order in the evening, place another order the next day, and both shipments arrive in the same package.

I have placed thousand's of dollars with them and never had a problem. That's incredible considering the normal US business has shifted Quality Control to the customer.

I ordered "A bunch" of bits that will arrive this Friday. Oh, this is gonna be a great weekend. :D:D:D

I didn't initially chime in with a "me too" on the first post about McMaster but I am completely with you - this is a company that has it together. Their website is beyond amazing - I wonder if the folks at grainger.com will ever get a clue and model theirs after it. My experiences with their shipping mirrors yours - super fast (often the next day) and without all the fake mark-up on the shipping costs. Their products, while not always the cheapest are nearly always high quality and often "brand name". Their checkout process is super simple (the amazon.com "one-click-order" people need to order a few things from them to see what really easy ordering is about.) There isn't anything on their website that isn't necessary and everything that should be is - and fast too.

For anyone that hasn't ordered from McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com)), I highly recommend placing your next parts order with them.

[cobra427mnsi]

I would love to order from them, but they don't ship to Canada ! They seem to have it well organized, you would think that shipping to Canada would not be that difficult. Thousands of other companies do it.

Paul

[Greg J]

For the international builders,

McMaster is a reference site. Use it like a library. You can download drawings of fasteners, etc. You can get information on which bits/cutters are appropriate for cutting MDF/plastics/aluminum. There are speed/torque curves available. The information is endless.

[Greg J]

I should have MechMate decals this evening!!!!!!

SA Flag decals should arrive next week.

[Gerald D]

#7 is reserved for you Greg - just have to polish it up a bit . . . . .

[smreish]

...oooh, Lucky 7!
Good job Greg..Thanks for keeping us all honest out here. I will drink a pint in your honor.

I will have to put up pictures of this weeks spoils. 44 sheets of 1/4" PVC plastic sheet. (1 bit with plenty of life left in it!) It's amazing to see how fast you can upload, change a sheet, cut and reupload a file. I got some of the table changes down to about 7 minutes a turn over. I felt like a Nascar tire changer this week.
...and it's only Tuesday.

The friendly bloke in Florida who Gerald has never met :)
Sean

[Greg J]

I actually wanted number 13. I was born on the 13th, it's lucky for me, etc. but not waiting any longer. Taking off work early to pickup the MM decals.

I'll have a pint also when the decals are placed and a picture is posted. :)

[Gerald D]

It's dinner time here - a glass of wine will be raised. :)

Suppose nobody will object if we keep 13 for you instead? :D