First Cuts #108 - Willemstad,Netherlands

[parrulho]

Oi galera!

I'm reading this forum for around 2 years, dreaming and been happy as other builders get running machines... During that time I have build an workshop where the mechmate will be the king of that space, getting tools that will be essencials and have collected almost all parts (from Metalhead, thanks). Now it's my time...

Here I'm, bald and no beard :)

I'm a portuguese living in Curacao, Netherland Antilles. Have worked, long time ago, from 1986 to 1996, in Portugal, with a CNC in textil industry, cutting tissue. It was from a French company, Lectra Systems... Now, thanks to Gerald I will have one for me :D

Thanks Gerald, Metalhead and all community.

No more cutting tissues, it will cut principally wood, official it will cut art to display on wife's art business and cut some boat parts for myself in the middle ;)

Only need to finish that canoe to get space... My main concern is weld (I'm practicing) and no problems in electronics, I hope...

[domino11]

Welcome Paulo! Looks like you are off to a good start. :)

[Axel1966]

Yes indeed !
Congratulations for your new workshop, it looks great !

[bolingerbe]

Welcome Paulo. The welding is not bad, and you will have a lot of good advice along the way. Good to see your progress and look forward to seeing you build.

[Metalsmith]

a wood strip boat builder....is that cedar...people are so amazed at how lite they can be.....have built one in 42 years, but getting the itch !
Why so much steel ....that will be a big machine....taht is hefty stuff !
I am a welder..... I may be wrong but I don't feel that they need to be welded solid ....they don't when building skyscrapers.... I will use a 3/4" on the corners and 1", every 3 or 4 inches.....If you dont want the side beams to warp , don't weld across the top or bottom...wrap around the corners and skip-weld down the sides...pick up a structural welding book !

[parrulho]

Thank you Metalsmith for your advices. Machine size will be for 4' x 8' boards. I'll follow the plans except for legs (will use square tube 70x70x3 and instead of round tube will use square tube 50x20x3)... I don't want to invent anything and legs do not interfere with functions of other parts. In the pile of steel you can see some that I'm using for small security fences. it's just to fell the welding on my hands before the real thing.

I like cedar strip boats and I have plans to build, but this one is marine plywood... build cheap to sell cheap.

[parrulho]

:) hello people, greetings from Curacao.

Ok. My canoe is stored for now and got room for Mechmate... finally. On 27Nov2012 I started to cut X and Y rails. have started with confidence. no problems to cut it down to 2.8cm... then, I'm able to advice: do not start to cut the 45 angles before you are sure and confirm that the rails are top flat. I started to cut angles right away and the result was 26mm height on Y rails and 28 on X rails... thanks God I did not loose nothing... but a little frustrated.

Also use a scrap piece of wood as a base and avoid to use the 4 bolts as a base to get the rail flat. it's ok to cut but not enough to get it really flat.. it's a good help.

When on 45 angles use good very hard steel on bolts used to control height. It needs one complete turn to get the measurements. put mark on the bolt where you start. use the hexagone form as a reference. use grit 36 to on first two passes then grit 60 on 3rd and 4th and finish with grit 80 on 5th and last 6th. It served me well. Hope it will help new people.

Regards and never tired to say thanks to Gerald.

paulo

[parrulho]

Not nice welds but they are strong. I'm happy with it :)

[parrulho]

After battling to get the cross members square and both the same size (lack of right tools) gantry is done, squared and true. Next Y car...

[Axel1966]

Hi,
Nice work !
Are the casters permanent ?

[parrulho]

It's temporary, when it's full painted and inside the shop it will be removed and normal feet will be mounted.

[Tom Ayres]

Very good work, I see your design allows for material storage. Nice!
Tom

[parrulho]

having hard time setting y car before weld.. fixing one side get the other off...

:confused:

[smreish]

...that looks familiar. :)

[parrulho]

I was worrying too much with Y car. Have removed all the clamps and started welding-control-adjust, weld next and repeat until it completes...at the end it was OK. Next: drill and mount rails and start rolling.....:)

[parrulho]

Hello happy people,

I'm looking for a reason why the proximity switch does not match the 20mm hole on rails. they are offset... Have searched the forum for it but it's taking me long time (what is not normal, let say...) any help is welcome.

regards,
Paulo

[smreish]

Paulo,
The 20mm hole in the rail is the TARGET for the proximity switches. The switches are optional. The offset insert for the 20mm hole is for the ability to adjust the TARGET hole in the rail after installation.

The proximity sensor is reverse logic. It is always active and sense the metal below it to detect a derail or other "jump the track" scenario. The hole is so the sensor does NOT see the rail and thus, act like a limit switch.

The proximity sensors are dual function.

Drawing # 10 20 246/247 show the drill details of the hole.
The thread that covers this is:
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=584

[parrulho]

Thank you Sean,
When I said "the proximity switch do not match the 20mm hole" was mean: the center of the proximity switch, when mounted on the stop block, do not match the center of the 20mm hole. they do not share the same center, there are a offset of around 8 or 10mm (I can't verify it right now). Is it done to be able to fine adjust the target? Sorry I can't explain it better in english :)

[cleyte]

In my case, a few washers behind the stop block was enough to produce alignment.

[smreish]

Oh, my misunderstanding.
Just add a few washers between the proximity block and side of gantry steel to "push" the sensor towards center line of the table until centered. Be careful not add to many to cause the hard stop bracket to miss the end stop adjustable stop blocks.

[Gerald D]

I don't think the prox switch is your biggest problem . . . . . . your pinion gears probably won't reach the racks either . . . . .

[parrulho]

At the moment I'm far away from my table to check but my table is very accurate on measures. In my head the center of the proximity switch offset from target is the way it was planed, with a purpose... if the centers must be coincident, I need to further investigate where my error is. By the way the 20mm target hole is not drilled yet, I stopped when have reached that point... Thank you all.

[parrulho]

Man, what a shame :o I would be very tired two days ago... the offset was not 8 or 10 but 5mm. I have marked and punched the center hole target by the plan and then rolled the gantry against the stop block and with a pen marker trough the proxy hole I marked the supposed center... the pen marker was tilted and gave me a bigger difference... after some adjust the real offset is 3mm. "storm in a tea coup" will never happen again.

I'll move 1mm the center hole target and use washers, as advised...

[parrulho]

I can't buy from McMaster, they do not sell outside USA. It turns very difficult to get some parts (in a small island as Curacao). Today I get a beautiful Z plate: 1/4x10x18 not sure if it is hardened or not. The ends are yellow painted... is it a code?

Still needed are racks/pinions and tape to get all parts with me.

[smreish]

Yes it is a paint code!
See the link here for reference.

http://www.southerntoolsteel.com/color-codes.html

[parrulho]

it rolls very smooth... man, I'm falling in love with that machine!!!

[Robert M]

Paulo….not to worry being transparent over your emotions…..
Many here will raise a hand as follower / part of some who deliberately say this : I’m in love with this machine…..but I’m married to my wife ^_^ !!

Although, in my specific case…..i ‘m no longer with her…..but still with my BB :D

[parrulho]

http://www.lightobject.com/22KW-24000rpm-CNC-Spindle-220V-P714.aspx#

Anyone knows that spindle? is it the same chinese spindle at sale on ebay with a different cover? no plastics on that one...

[danilom]

its the same one, no plastic on any of the water cooled spindles

[parrulho]

Thanks Danilo. I was thinking allbblack partes was plastic..

[HomeMadeCnc]

Looks way better than mine! Great job.
Cheers
Tim

[bolingerbe]

Very good job.

[oficina do corten]

Olá Paulo, maravilhosamente bem feita a tua maquina! Parabéns de um iniciante. É realmente inspirador!
Sorry! below translated for non portuguese speakers:
Hi Paulo, wonderfully built your machine! Congratulations from a beginner, its really inspiring!

[parrulho]

Thank you all, obrigado.

Got some time to dirty my hands... Enjoyed to fabricate Z plate slide... came out perfect.:)

[litemover]

Looks good!

Where did you get your cable chain with the yellow studs?

[parrulho]

Got it from ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Cable-drag-chain-wire-carriers-25-57-R75-2000-1800-mm-/250692615563?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a5e71bd8b

received a different cable chain but I did not complain because I liked it...

Quality is good but he asks $30 extra for shipping...

[parrulho]

control box is next...

[litemover]

nice work, is that rust converter or black primer?

[parrulho]

It's black Rust-Oleum mixed with a bit of silver that I used for slide plate, results a very dark gris.

[parrulho]

Hi all,

After a good vacation, I'm back in business... I have been busy mounting the control panel, and have a question. when fine tuning the motors can I use the same motor on all 4 gecko's g202 or is better to use the correspondent motor with each driver?

[Gerald D]

I think you can use the same motor.

[parrulho]

Thank you Gerald, I also think the same...

[parrulho]

Almost finish wiring the machine. "Kitchen" went very well, got motor movement, tuning etc. BUT my motors are pk296a1a and in my head it was pk296a2a. will start underpowered with a power supply of 48V instead of 75V. Not a big deal as also I will start with a small router, 800W. After the first days will go for a spindle and new power supply. "mise en marche" is very soon :D

[Gerald D]

Looks good!

That long "printer" cable between the PC and the control box is a little worry - keep it away from power cables.

[KenC]

that black thingy is steel on all 3 of my 2.2kw water cooled spindles.

[isladelobos]

Nice!!! work.

[parrulho]

Yes, the printer cable is very long. I prefer the computer at the other side of the table. that cable served me during years in a plotter without problems.. let see how it goes. (I have a short one at hand, just in case :)

[parrulho]

not another gecko but a iguana :D

[isladelobos]

Hehehe.

Your new machinist.

Paulo, your island ¿is part of Netherlands antilles? because i see in wikipedia after 2010 this change.

[parrulho]

We got more autonomy but still part of the Netherlands kingdom.

[parrulho]

IT CUTS!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

as it should be. I dont have small bits to show more detailed cuts, need to go out...Thank you all members contributing to this forum full off good information. Special thanks to Gerald, everybody knows why and Mike, metalhead for his support.

when my workshop is more "presentable" I'll put more photos of the finalized machine.

A fine wine (1965) for a fine machine! :)

CHEERS!!!

[alan254]

first cuts are always rewarding and motivating

good cutting


al

[Tom Ayres]

Good job! Pat yourself on the back.

[darren salyer]

Great job. Now you will find ways to use your machine you never would have considered at the beginning of your journey.

[Andrew_standen]

Congratulations , good luck with your cutting

[HomeMadeCnc]

Congratulations! This machine will change your life for the better.
Cheers

[zumergido]

Congratulations! This machine will change your life for the better.
Cheers

mmm i dont agree that much.. now. have to learn, mach3, vectric, corel, solidwork, scketchup, how not burn bits. how to explain that this machine can make the sixteen chapeel but it will be very difficult, and you won't do it. :D:D

mechmate is a endless universe to learn.

[Robert M]

"mechmate is a endless universe to learn. "
Just that....isn't it a beauty by it self :rolleyes:
Robert....:D

[KenC]

Congrats!
You can put solidworks & sketchup in the back seat for now. It will be more efficient learning if you concentrate on your 2.5D cutting 1st.
My software learning recommandation priority list as follows:
1) Mach3
2) 2D Cad
3) Vectrice
4) 2.5D stuff
99) 3D modeling.

[zumergido]

hi ken. you should put "how not to burn bits" in second place. :rolleyes:

[parrulho]

Thank you for all recommendations and nice words. Still have a lot to learn. Already did some mistakes but is from mistakes you learn more... here is one of the first mistakes... I mean: cuts :)

Video link: http://db.tt/HzoaHUGX

[HomeMadeCnc]

Don't forget www.thermwood.com ecabinet systems.

[digger]

Tim
How you can use ecabinet with mach3?

Milosh

[hevertg]

Got it from ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Cable-drag-chain-wire-carriers-25-57-R75-2000-1800-mm-/250692615563?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a5e71bd8b

received a different cable chain but I did not complain because I liked it...

Quality is good but he asks $30 extra for shipping...

As meters of chain I need for my mechmate? is 3000 * 2200 mm

[parrulho]

First upgrade on my machine: a new power supply. went from 48V to 73V measured. Now it can moves on max velocity without losing steps but to be honest I don't "feel" more torque. I still can move the gantry pushing it a bit hard. Well it should be normal... Have cut some complete 4x8 board, ply and MDF and small jobs and I'm very happy with the quality. still waiting to get more mill bits. In Curacao it is difficult to find and very expensive. Then I needed to stop. A LOT OF SAWDUST!!! :) Have installed a small shopvac and it is helping. still busy experimenting with different dust shoes. I'm using 40mm pipe and it's works for now. Will post some pics later.

[HomeMadeCnc]

Hi Milosh, you export your job from ecabnets in dxf . I use aspire to convert the dxf drawings to gcode.

Cheers All!

[timberlinemd]

Hi Milosh, you export your job from ecabnets in dxf . I use aspire to convert the dxf drawings to gcode.

Cheers All!

There is no export ability to dxf in eCab???

[parrulho]

Just to report that I have changed limit resistors on geckos from 12.8K (calculated by formula) to 20K. that way I have more holding torque. Had some problems on Z, I'm using a lighter router Kress 800W, temporary, and the gas strut is pushing it up hard, it's is 30lb, for a spindle. Sometimes when I'm changing tools I lose Z zero. During the cut, no problems. let see if the motors do not get too hot...

[hevertg]

http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-tips/techniques/safety/prevent-router-bit-overheating/
Want to prevent those annoying burn marks that leave your routed edges black and your face red? Keep cool by putting the following tips to work.

Keep it clean
Ideally, you should wipe your bits clean after each use. Most of us, though, just drop them back in their holders and walk away. Unfortunately, resins and dust build up that cause bits to get hotter faster, making them more likely to burn the wood. If your bits are covered with sawdust, wipe them with a dry cloth. Remove the stubborn build-up with a blade-and-bit cleaner. The benefit: Clean bits stay sharp longer because excessive heat breaks down carbide cutters.

Stay sharp



A dull bit cuts poorly and builds up heat doing so. If you can run the cutter over your fingernail without shearing off ashaving, then your bit needs sharpening.
To freshen up router bit cutting edges with diamond lapping stones, hone only the flat surfaces. Count your strokes to make sure you remove the same amount of material from each cutter to keep the bit balanced. It only takes a half-dozen or so strokes with each stone. If that doesn't restore cutting ability, have the bit sharpened by a pro or replace it.

Set speed limits


Router bits spin up to 24,000 revolutions per minute (rpm). And most bits have two cutters, so they take up to 48,000 bites every minute. Think of it that way and you see why bits and wood heat up in a hurry. To keep things cool, set your router speed according to the chart, below right. If your router doesn't have variable speed, you can get a plug-in controller for less than $25. (Check your local retailer or contact MLCS at 800/533-9298; mlcswoodworking.com.)You can keep heat in check too by controlling how fast you feed the bit into the workpiece. A slow feed rate generates more heat. Use a fast and consistent feed rate to keep the bit and wood cool.

Watch your woods

Some woods, such as oak, don't easily burn. Maple and cherry burn notoriously because of their density and the oils and extractives they contain. Among softwoods, pine can be troublesome in areas that contain pitch pockets. With these species, slow the router and increase feed rate to minimize burning.

Take it one step at a time

Powerful routers and sharp carbide-tipped bits are capable of hogging out large cuts in even the hardest of woods. But doing so stresses the bit, causes tear-out, and leads to burning. When removing more than 1/4" of material, make multiple shallow passes.

[parrulho]

Thank you for advices and title, my machine deserves a number :)

[timberlinemd]

Thank you for advices and title, my machine deserves a number :)

Yes it does. Where is Metal Head?

[parrulho]

Still limit resistors on Geckos:

using 20 KΩ instead of 12.8 KΩ calculated by formula - Motors are always hot, cutting or idle is the same, you can let your hand over it for long time but too hot for my peace of mind... My decision is to change back resistors on drivers running X and Y to 12.8 KΩ and 18 KΩ on Z temporary...

Let's see.

[MetalHead]

I have been MIA for a few days.

Congrats and you get #108

[parrulho]

Thank you Mike.:)

[darren salyer]

Great job!!!

[Andrew_standen]

Congratulations number 108 from number 109

[parrulho]

thanks 109 :) same for you. hey, I like a lot your kayak, I m thinking to build one for myself.

[KenC]

Me likey kayak. :D

[Andrew_standen]

Kayak was built from plans see Redfish kayaks, "return" model.
Took about 300 hours to complete. total cost about 625 uk pounds. including cost of the plans.
Weight 22kgs length 5.8mtrs .. and it was fast on the water.

[jhiggins7]

Paulo,

Congratulations on your MechMate and earning Serial Number 108.

Here's the Updated Builder's Log (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AttqjIPMBEXKcExveGc4d3U0V25zQmMyX1U1eUVhU Xc&usp=sharing)with your entry added.

Sorry to be tardy, but I was on a Cruise in your beautiful Caribbean.

[parrulho]

Thank you John, did you stopped in Curacao?

Upgraded Power Supply, small dust extractor installed, first time spoil-board surfaced and more important, first paid jobs :) It's a good start and I'm very proud of my machine.

Dust foot works very well is from: http://solsylva.com/cnc/vacuum.shtml

Dust separator also works 100%, from: http://www.jpthien.com/cy.htm

[KenC]

Congrats on the 1st paid job! Wishing you more to come!

If you are serious about real production, do keep a few spare buckets for your Thien. I have0 2 huge barrels, each will last 4~6 hours of wood chip/dust.

[parrulho]

Time for very welcome upgrade, from 800w router to 3kw chinese spindle :) Still busy mounting it. VFD is a Mitsubishi FR-D720-165-NA. I plan to use Modbus on Mach3.

[pblackburn]

Modbus is the way I did it. Was not to bad to set up. Plenty of examples here and at MachSupport forum.

[parrulho]

I'm been busy outside of mechmate project... My new spindle is working very well, but using manual start, stop. Could not get any comms between VFD and my PC using the RS232/485 converter. Need more time testing and change different combinations of wires. Not sure about pinout at vfd or converter.

here is a video of my machine carving a maya calendar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJwxNlgnH3s

[Tom Ayres]

That's cool. What material are you cutting? looks like foam.

[sierra347]

Nice calendar Paulo, How long did it take to cut? I've been meaning to cut 36" one.

[parrulho]

Tom, material is Moisture resistant MDF white faced, it hold details very well.

Armando, the size is 24", I leave my machine unattended and then I found it paused by itself (first time happen) I don't know how long it was paused but the cut took less than 2 Hours for sure and it could run it more fast.

[Jbozaf]

Hi Paolo! how much money you spend in this machine? I want to build one myself but i dont know how much money it cost.... ty for your time and congrats for that nice machine!:)

[parrulho]

Thanks Boza. I can't tell you exactly the cost of my machine, I was collecting parts during 2 years and buying all my tools at same time (it was my first metal work) and never logged the expenses... As Sean indicated be prepared to expend 6 to 8 thousand USD, it depends on quality of the parts and shipping/taxes to get it imported. I was lucky enough to get most of the heavy and expensive parts from Mike, Metalhead: laser kit, motors, drives and controlbox with most of the components, all in very good quality. It saved me a lot in shipping.

[parrulho]

Still no communication between VFD and computer using RS232 converter. I'll attach crops from user manual, maybe anyone can see something wrong with my connection?

I'm connecting:

RDA and SDA, together on D+/A(Tx+)
RDB and SDB, together on D-/B (Tx-)

[pblackburn]

I don't know which machine controller software you are using. This only pertains to Mach3.

I know Mach can be frustrating to make it talk to the VFD. Some VFD manufacturers, the setting has to be made and a required power down for the setting to accept. Once you have the correct settings in Mach and your VFD it works wonderful. But you will have a little stress as there is not a good manual to read to make it plug-n-play.

According to your images, what you have stated is correct. I had a little trouble with the distance of the computer to the VFD and had to get a shielded serial cable and mounted the 485 converter near the VFD. Now don't just jump and say that is my problem. Many people have these just plugged into the back of their computer and it works fine. Post a question on Machsupport and CNCZone also. There are more people there that are users of Mach3 and some will have the same frequency inverter you do. If anything, it is a larger knowledge base to pull information from.

I hope this is helpful to you.

[danilom]

I posted this screen as it is critical for right setup, this is if you use old serial modbus plugin from mach3

http://cnc.rs/mechmate/modbus_serial.png

check the parameters as stated from pages 183, 187 and 200 , speed parity stop bit etc.
also my vfd wont update parameters faster than 10Hz, something to do with line busy or whatever.
You can test line settings from Test ModBus button, bear in mind that if the parameters are values 1-xxx and registers start from 0-xxx sometimes.

[parrulho]

Thank you very much Pete, I'll sort this out when I have some spare time. I did not try it with Mach, just want to communicate with FR-Configurator that is a tool from Mitsubishi, VFD Manufacturer, to setup the parameters of the Inverter. or, better yet, to buy a PCI RS-485 board.

[parrulho]

Thank you Danilo, Just see your post now...

[parrulho]

Maybe it's better to try communication from Mach, using test modbus...

These "speed, parity, stop bit" must match VFD and Software (Mach or FR-Configurator) and about rs-232 serial port on computer? also these settings needs to match or is not important?

[parrulho]

During cuts my machine get paused without reason. I have a 5m parallel cable to have the computer on other side of the table. it was working very well with a router but since I changed to spindle it started. not a big deal as I only need to press a button to continue. Then, I put the computer next the controller and VFD with a small parallel cable but it got worst. I couldn't start the machine with spindle running, it said a "stop button is pressed"... Moved the computer to other side, again, with big cable for now.

I'm cutting small files, mainly art works for a gallery. Everyone is impressed with the art that comes out of my machine. Very happy, biggest success is the custom stippler portraits, I think it will pay my machine :)

still no signal of communication between VFD and computer through rs-232 adapter.

I wish a good holiday season for all community.

[danilom]

Try setting the Debounce in Options to something between 200-1000 it should solve the problem, I also don't hook up buttons directly to the Breakout board but trough the 24V relays its much more immune to the noise

[parrulho]

thanks, I'll do it.

[hevertg]

Paulo that's good to know you're doing well, merry christmas friend, wanted to help but I still have no experience, until you put in function the me to think that in the mid 2014's I'll have running, greetings friend and you go well. and thanks for the help you have given me.

Paulo que bueno saber que te va bien, feliz navidad amigo, quisiera ayudarte pero todavia no tengo experiencia, hasta que no ponga en funcion la mi a, creo que a mediados del 2014 la tendre funcionando, saludos amigo y que te vaya muy bien. y gracias por la ayuda que me has dado.

[parrulho]

Hi all,

Just to say hello. With small problems to solve on my machine (noise), the true is that I did nothing to solve it :) but I'll do one of these days... I'm using the machine almost every day, turning on the VFD manually, and pause button disabled... Machine is going strong. Got a good deal on Enroute V5 CAM program, that's a good piece of software! These Rapid Textures are promising. A portrait almost out of the box:

[HomeMadeCnc]

Super nice job!
I run Aspire 4 and Easycab Pro kitchen,
looking forward to trying that out for myself.
Love the dustfoot custom pipe!
Cheers
Tim

[smreish]

...is that plumbing drain pipe as a dust pickup? Love it!

[Andrew_standen]

Hi Paulo. I like the portraits, what material are you using?
I have been trying to make some wooden books using maple faced plywood. Painted in back acrylic. Sanded then Danish oil. Must try some of your portraits. Nice work.
cheers Andrew

[parrulho]

Here is a photo for the dust pipe I used, it's like cooper. Works very well for a small system like mine, with a ShopVac. You can turn it around, up and down without turn screws, just forcing, very handy.

Andrew, the material I use is MDF moisture resistant laminated in white. with a sharp toll it holds very fine details without chip. Feel free to PM me if you want more info. on portraits.

[parrulho]

Testing Mechmate to cut glass: Approved.

http://youtu.be/yNYPgUQHsfY

[Robert M]

Great !!
Thks for sharing ;)

[Tom Ayres]

Never would have thought...good going:)

[dbinokc]

Cool. What are you using for the scribe? How hard was it to break the curved glass free afterwards?

[Axel1966]

Nice work, how did you manage the gap caused by the cutter's offset ?

[parrulho]

https://www.unitedmfrs.com/cart/detail.cfm?item=4864
You need to remove the lock pin.

after doing extra small cuts, by hand, dividing by 2 the wast material, it was very easy to break. for tool path used was engraving 0.03 mm and foam board as backing plate.

for that job, cutting ovals for picture frames I didn't take into account the offset. Dimensions are perfect only the zero is offset, I think...

[KenC]

Nice job! Thanks for sharing.
Now we have another trick up our sleeve :D

[parrulho]

Today I spent some time looking to solve the noise problem: machine gets paused, randomly, during cuts, and E-Stop on mach3 getting activated when Spindle turns on or off or changing speed. All I needed to do was to ground the negative of the 12V power supply for PMDX-122 and Proximity switch to aluminium plate. All noise went away and machine is working as it should be. I don't know for sure if it is advisable but it solved my problem. I'm not using line reactors or EMI filter on VFD.

Wire is the yellow one on center of thr photo.

[Tom Ayres]

Wow Paulo, I just came in from the shop and I'm experiencing the same exact problem, been trying to solve it all day long. I had to change out a PMDX-126 and thats when trouble started. It fixed the dead z but then the spindle was kicking the breaker that the computer was on, changed parallel ports to fix that, but still have a jitter on one of the X steppers when the spindle goes on or off. Never had this problem before, maybe additional grounding is what I need.

[dbinokc]

If your 12V power supply was floating, that would definitely cause problems.
Having no ground reference is like trying to measure the height of something with one point. It takes two points to define a height.

Having a noisy ground for electrical circuits that depend on a voltage value is like trying the measure the height of a building during an earthquake. If the earth keeps jumping up and down, you can't get a good reading.

Hopefully the analogy makes sense.

[parrulho]

yes, the 12V power supply was floating. When I was mounting the control box I remember that I wanted to keep the ground of the PMDX-122 isolated and I missed the power supply. Today when I opened the control box my eyes go direct to it and I saw the problem...

It can be the solution for Tom...

[Tom Ayres]

I must be missing something, I've looked everything over good and is grounded well. Just about everything has a common ground. ALL cable is shielded and the PS's are grounded to the control box then to earth ground, I have filters on each individual phase going out of the VFD and then another for the whole cable. I have a 24vdc ps that is not connected to anything but its grounded through the DIN bar.

I still think its the computer flipping out, I did take a lightning strike that took-out the power supply in it. I'm trying to use it but I think Its time for a new one.

[parrulho]

Very unfortunate, Tom. It can be anything at the computer. If you have a temporary computer that you can use to run mach3 and then start to swap parts until you find the problem? It's is my approach when I'm at work in a casino with hundreds of slot machines... Good luck.

[Tom Ayres]

That's it, keep playing until you win. ;)

[dbinokc]

The computer would be a relatively easy one to try first. If that does not work, you might try looking at the filters you added. Maybe even remove them. They may have been damaged and are causing problems.

After you try that, you may want to summarize everything back on your thread before your troubleshooting notes get scattered around a bunch of other threads.

[Tom Ayres]

Sorry, I'll try not to say anything anymore.

[dbinokc]

I apologize if it seemed like I was chastising you. Just making a suggestion.

[KenC]

did you ground directly from board terminal to your chassis earth point.

[Regnar]

Have you tried grounding your dust collection? From the photos it looks like it isnt and if your Z axis proximity switch is anything like the rest of us it might be getting zapped. It also looks very close to the Z motor and X motor.

Just notice that the hose actually gets very close to all those wires on top of your Y car. I would seriously consider running copper wire around the whole thing and grounding it out.

[smreish]

Paulo,
I have had similar issues with my #28 that about drove me nuts.
Some of the detective work may take a while, but it's how I found it on my machine.

Check these things to isolate the issue:
- does it run without issues when spindle off and dust collection off?
- Disconnect the proximity circuit at the control box and check? If so, I had to make an isolated plastic mount to keep Z-axis sensor separate from machine ground.
- check if it runs without spindle physically touching machine...means barrier material between spindle case and z-axis (including mounting bolt)


How i fixed my machine.
- added plastic isolator bushings to my 12mm body proximity sensors
- added 12vdc relay to proximity circuit to put a "dry contact" between the proximity sensor and the PMDX board.


In summary...the proximity sensors have been the induction point for noise on all my machines. The only time I had an issue, was with the spindle machine. Router didn't have enough noise to make it an issue.

Good luck.

[parrulho]

Russell, you touch a good point, my dust pipe is not grounded. I fell already the static on my hands. I'll run a naked wire from outside, It should be OK. I have a bypass on the Z proximity switch, it's waiting for a bracket for long time:)... is why the static did not gave troubles, yet.

Sean, my machine is running without troubles since I grounded the 12V power supply, it's was floating... so far so good.

Ken, I did the same as the motors power supply, ground the negative black wire to the aluminium heat sink that is the common for all machine, and yes, directly from the board terminal.

Thank you to all.

[KenC]

Connect to the aluminum heat sink is not the correct thing to do. It should be connected directly to the chassis ground point. I do not have the ability to explain the whole concept in a few words, do read up on "Star ground".
Edit..
I know most will think "what wrong with connecting to a common conductor? Its a chunk of metal & they are suppose to act as one point in theory"" I used to think that way too. BUT that is correct ONLY when everything is peachy..
Ground loop always exist, like everything in life, we can live with it as long as it is not a nuisance. BUT when it cause problem. The easiest & least hassle to tame it is to further reduce the resistance by a low resistance (thick) copper wire to connect to the ground point instead of relying on the chasis or heat sink or other chunk of metal as conductor.

[parrulho]

Following the plan, that heat sink is acting as the "center of the star " and not a branch.

[KenC]

The heat sink is a good place for the noise. BUT not the best place to place any power supply ground on it.
Another place where think may went wrong without knowing. You house Ground went bad. This is a very common in my part of the world.

[parrulho]

While it's working, it will stay as is. If I have problems in future I'll come at it again... Thanks for your advice.

[parrulho]

I was a little reluctant to write this post because I could be misinterpreted. I don't want to prove anything, please see this post more like a disclaimer. Here at the forum, there are a lot of people much more capable than me that I admire and thank them all the help provided.

I did my machine following the plans an directions of the forum. That part of ground/earthing with the heatsink as the central ground point is explained here: http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4

But it is not the principal reason of this post, the reason is that: http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3616&postcount=23

here you can see clearly that I should NOT have connected the negative of the small power supply to the heatsink, it breaks the isolation of the board.

Maybe put line filters on power input of the VFD to see if I can remove that wire... or check my house ground as pointed by Ken. If somebody has any idea where I can connect the power supply ground without break the isolation of the board, please let me know.

Meanwhile I will keep that ground at my own risk. I do not advice nobody to do it.

[KenC]

Think Sewage pipe in your house, (done correctly,) the Panel ground point is the last/lowest point of your all drain pipes before it leaves your house. Connecting the Board PSU ground to this point will keep your board isolated from other parts of the circuit. It sounds weird, but that is how its done.

[parrulho]

just to freshening up air :) some V-Bit work done

[sierra347]

Very cool, Paulo did you draw the artwork yourself?

[Robert M]

Nicely done.....& like finishing too ;)

[darren salyer]

Very Nice!!

[pblackburn]

Awesome.

[racedirector]

Wow, cool mirror surrounds, they really pop with the finishing. Well done Sir!

[Alan_c]

Brilliant, would you mind documenting the paint effect process?

[tnarch]

wow! did you paint the silver then rub on black stain?

[parrulho]

Sure... Practically I designed the artwork but not from scratch. The client bring me the idea with a jpeg drawn. Then, after vectorize it and clean the vectors I play with it: copy, past, mirror, tweaking etc until get the size needed... Also she wanted the two models sharing the design of one of the corners.

the finish was very simple, almost no sanding. Used a very dark stain, 2 hands and finish with rust oleum silver with a brush almost dry, passing very light brushstrokes only on top. the result is like very old metal frames.

[tnarch]

thank you for sharing your techniques.

[parrulho]

Finally got my spindle controlled by Mach3 using brains and Modbus. The VFD is a Mitsubishi FR-D720 but it should work with almost all Mitsubishi drivers. For communications have used a rs-485 PCI card with 4 wires but is possible to use only two wires. The cheap chinese converters did not work. no signal of noise yet :)

Attached are screenshots and the "brain" I'm using.

[parrulho]

The Brain did not pass... if you want it, just ask.

[parrulho]

Screenshot of the brain.

[parrulho]

Nice companion for my machine: a mini wireless keyboard. all you need to do is setup shortcuts as you like and you own a full mechmate remote control. Best $14 dollars spent...:)

[racedirector]

Thats neat :) Looks like one of those used on HTPC machines? Where did you buy that? I have seen similar locally for about A$26.00

[parrulho]

Yes, it's more used in media centers. That one I bought from ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321422647882?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

[racedirector]

Cool, I'll grab one for my Raspberry Pi HTPC and my machine at the same time :)

[parrulho]

Hello people,

No noise, no troubles on my machine. Still going strong. I have replaced the pmdx 122 just to get all inputs working (old board was missing one).

A simple yet good looking, sign for myself. PVC board with no finishing.

Regards,
Paulo

[Robert M]

Wishing you lots of business ;)

[Fox]

Nice work!

[Duds]

Great sign!

[darren salyer]

Nice work!!!
I really like using PVC.

[servant74]

Looks great!