Gantry and Y Car Welded! - Smiths Station, AL

[1planeguy]

Getting ready to start a MM project... Built a BuildyourCNC Blackfoot router and am ready to build a manly machine:-) Am in the US...actually about a 2 hour drive from Metalhead, so shipping shouldn't be too high :-)
Am a structural steel draftsman by trade, do fabrication design in a 3d modeling program called Tekla Structures. That being said I have plenty of steel contacts and access to some impressive equipment. Shop I contract to has 2 different CNC fab lines...they can cut and drill structural shapes up to 36 inches tall without a man laying a hand on it. Am planning on building a bolt together base frame to allow moving without a hernia or a forklift. With the access to the beam line I can bolt it as accurate as I can weld it...
Am planning a 4x12 cutting area for thin aluminum sheet...as someone else mentioned a few months ago, I too am a airplane guy. Am planning on using he router to fab skins (cut to shape and drill pilot holes)
Probably more info than needed...will be throwing questions as things get rolling

[WTI]

The bolt together idea has great appeal to may people.

Maybe you can fab your design and Metalhead can sell it as a RTA kit?

[1planeguy]

Will see...gonna get it modeled in the next few days

[MetalHead]

Wazup Bama boyeee !!! Welcome to the team!

[TechGladiator]

Welcome to the team!!.. I just finished my bolt down machine a couple weeks ago..

[smreish]

Not to change your plans....but you will find that 5' wide surface is far more useful than the 4'. Mainly when it comes to handling. If you will be cutting alum skin, you may find you need a large surface area to "JIG" up hold down fixtures, or cut complex arced shapes that don't fit in the smaller dimension. There really is no significant cost difference by going a little wider.

[MetalHead]

I agree with Sean here. Smaller stuff will fit the wider table , not the other way around !! :)

[MetalHead]

Hey are you in Smiths Station?

[1planeguy]

Yes on the Smiths Station :-)

[1planeguy]

Agree on the width...kinda mentioned the 4x12 number as a minimum. The length is gonna increase the material cost already do to not getting the 2 x rails out of a standard length of channel...the extra width will be pennies to dollars. Gonna be at the fab shop next week on day job business, thought I would get some pictures of what 1.5 million U.S will get u in CNC equipment...

[darren salyer]

Good Luck with your build.
I have a 5x12 table in the works, and it looks huge compared to the 4x8 I've seen in person.

[1planeguy]

Just hit me...don't have to go get pictures...there is this thing called the internet ;-)

This is the machine that will fab my MM table...might be overkill :-)

http://www.controlledautomation.com/Beam_Drilling_Line_DRL-344-Specs.html

Gonna make as much as possible bolt together so it can be HEAVY when assembled but light enough to move without needing a forklift.

Question. If I make/grind the rails and then bandsaw them into 2 pieces anyone think the joint would even be noticeable to the v-wheels? Thinking along the break down to move issue...14-15' piece of angle with one leg cut down is fairly flimsy to handle without kinking it. Sorta also thinking along the lines of running as a 5'x8' machine with capability to expand to 5'x12'

[WTI]

If you have a seam in the rails, just make sure that the seam does not hit 2 wheels at the same time - stagger your seams.

[darren salyer]

Mine is welded and a beast.
I can move it with a wheel dolly under each rear leg and a floor jack under the front spreader by myself.
I think the whole forklift to move idea may be overkill.
I believe two people could load my machine on a 16' trailer in less than an hour, and off load in about the same.
We'd be drinking beer while someone else was re-assembling their machine....Just my $.02.

[1planeguy]

Seam stagger makes sense...

[1planeguy]

Darren you might be right...Gonna add up the weights and see what I get. Might be weld up each side and bolt the bed and cross members would be a good compromise. I could at least argue to the friends I ask to help me move it that I tried ;-)

[JamesJ]

1planeguy
Welcome to the group!!
I welded the sides and connected the welded sides with the cross members. I also used I beam as a replacement for the C-channel.
Photos on the second page of my build thread. Around entry #40

mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2613

[1planeguy]

Started this thread over a year ago...stuff happens, calender keeps flipping pages. Oh well...

Please understand that I HAVE done plenty of searching through the archives (there is a TON of info in there) but it was all in a "conversation" form and sometimes leaves me scratching my head a bit. The info contained is enormous by the way.

Anyway, got a quick "Can anyone VERIFY this" question... Have ordered the skate parts from Metalhead awhile back and want to get EVERYTHING coming that I can't buy local. Grinder to fit the skate is the big question...several of the ones listed in the archives don't seem to be available anymore. I have to buy one because the only one I have is in the 7" family...no where close to fitting the skate. If I have to buy a grinder, I might as well buy what will bolt right up to it instead of having to be "whittled" on to make fit

Dewalt DW818 is mentioned in the archives...appears to still be available on Amazon. Is this a drop in option?

http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW818-2-Inch-Small-Grinder/dp/B00005RHPZ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389115420&sr=8-1&keywords=dewalt+dw818

[dbinokc]

I am building my mechmate to help with buidling a Zenith 650B.
The Ryobi AG403 from Home Depot is a perfect fit as far as hole alignment, but you will need to get longer screws. It held up just fine grinding all my rails.

[darren salyer]

Had to Google Zenith 650b.....way cool project!!
Crazy thing, I live less than 90 minutes from their factory.

[1planeguy]

I am building my mechmate to help with buidling a Zenith 650B.
The Ryobi AG403 from Home Depot is a perfect fit as far as hole alignment, but you will need to get longer screws. It held up just fine grinding all my rails.
BINGO! 5 minute run to Home Depot and $29 later I have a grinder that fits that beautiful laser-cut plate! Thanks a bunch... love problem-solving, but not when it's been solved 121 times before...did go to Lowe's a while back with my skate plate and never found one that would fit without modding it.

RE: the Zenith 650B VERY cool little plane. I have Sonex plans that I scratch-built the tail to a few years ago...want to CNC a "kit" to build from now. The Sonex plans are really well suited for this because they are extremely accurate, and everything is uber-detailed. Am going to build a rubber pad press to do the formed parts on. Have some ideas for some possible other products with the press as well.

If you haven't ever seen this guys website, go get yourself a cup of coffee and start reading. He has done a few airplane projects on CNC including at least parts of a 650...

http://www.hainesengineering.com/rhaines/aircraft/650.htm

[1planeguy]

Had to Google Zenith 650b.....way cool project!!
Crazy thing, I live less than 90 minutes from their factory.
Darren, I went to the factory years ago...is like Disneyland for airplane guys. Toys around every corner. They have a NICE cnc router...big ONSRUD. Funny thing, with your vacuum table, you could probably do everything they use that ONSRUD for...maybe not as fast but you probably didn't blow an extra $200,000 either...

[dbinokc]

planeguy,
That hint was passed on to me by another builder on the forum. So it is now your turn to pass it to the next person that asks. :)

I had considered Sonex as well, but I just liked the look of the 650B better.

I have considered rubber pad forming as well, but could not really find the rubber materials to do any experimentation. I would definitely like to hear more about that. I may not have the press tonnage to do a full rib, but it would be fun to experiment some.

[darren salyer]

Darn you, DB.....now you have my wheels turning....they have a workshop coming up.....
I DON"T need another hobby......do I?

[dbinokc]

LOL. Even if you did not want to build an airplane, I am sure you would find it interesting.

[1planeguy]

Know this is the "MECHMATE" forum...hope this isn't too out of line. The little airplanes built with CNC equipment rabbit we were chasing made me think of this. Folks at church asked me to make a stage prop for a summer children's program. One thing led to another and well...the pictures speak for themselves.

Started with a 3 view plan I found online for building a balsa model of the classic GeeBee racer from the 30's...scanned, import to CAD, scale WAY up, and redraw with notches to make it a snap together frame...was only about 3-4 glue joints in the whole thing. Cover with heat shrink dacron cloth (common aircraft covering material on light planes...actually the original GeeBee was fabric covered) and painted. Just a few pictures for giggles

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/107595954967572552624/albums/5966548585687634545

[dbinokc]

Very cool. How long did it take you to make it?

[1planeguy]

An insane amount of time...something like a week. Could do another in half that, but will probably never need to :-)

[darren salyer]

VERY cool stuff.....

[smreish]

...and that is awesome scenery! Great job.

[1planeguy]

Does anyone know a source for drill bits that have a 1/4" shank that will fit in a router? Need to drill 3/32" and/or 1/8" holes in thin aluminum (.032 or less...real thin)

Is a Hitachi M12VC router that I would love to use on the Mechmate under construction...is here already, has been soooooo simple, but need to drill small holes and collets are only available in 1/4 and 1/2. Sooooo I have to find some way to mount a drill bit or I'm gonna be stuck going to a spindle.

Anyone know what the taper is on the Makita routers? Maybe there is a collet that can be had to clamp a 3/32 bit... Understand they have been popular in DIY CNC circles for awhile...so figure I'm not the first person to try to cross this bridge.

Appears there are collets available from precise bits (http://www.precisebits.com/products/equipment/bosch_1618_collets.asp?tsPT=!!!Bosch_1618!!!Collet !!!PG!!!#Tabs)

[1planeguy]

...and that is awesome scenery! Great job.

Thank you sir!

[1planeguy]

planeguy,

I have considered rubber pad forming as well, but could not really find the rubber materials to do any experimentation. I would definitely like to hear more about that. I may not have the press tonnage to do a full rib, but it would be fun to experiment some.

DB, here is a video to get you thinking about the rubber pad forming (http://bcove.me/mg51b4t3). One possible source for the rubber is the big 3/4" sheets of rubber that gyms use (is also used for flooring in horse stalls when they are on concrete)...I bought a sheet to experiment with at Tractor Supply, was 3'x6' I think.

You can cut it and stack it to whatever thickness you need to press into. The Mechmate can make quick work of the aluminum blanks and the form blocks.

[dbinokc]

Already seen that one! I track the RSS feed for the EAA videos. Lot of good stuff there.
I will take a look a Tractor Supply though. I would have never thought of horse stall flooring, but it it seems like would have the right properties.
Have you done actual press tests? How well did it work for you?

[1planeguy]

Have you done actual press tests? How well did it work for you?

I pressed a piece in a shop press and it compressed around the edges, which I believe is the important thing to roll the flanges around. Don't know what durometer the stall flooring actually is, but it is pretty firm. Brian Carpenter, the guy in the video said they had actually used tire rubber successfully (the sections of tread tractor trailer tires sling off on to road sides)

I designed a press with a 50 ton capacity but am waiting on some of the parts to get it going...the layout has changed a little, but I'll attach a model view of it.

[1planeguy]

Does anyone know what the Mechmate gantry actually weighs?...Y-car and all? Just curious how the rolling weight would compare to the plywood machine I have now...it is surprisingly heavy since it has several layers of 3/4 ply to make the front and all the pieces to form the legs and box it off...bet it is close to 50 pounds.

[1planeguy]

Am looking for a picture/info on guys that have used an I-beam as the main beam on a Mechmate. Specifically what I want to know is if the X-rail was overhung past the edge of the I-beam flange like it is on the as-designed channel main beams. The rack mounts under the overhung X-rail...and if the X-rail isn't overhung on the I-beam then the rack has to be mounted under the flange of the I-beam main beam. This means (in my case) that the rack will be 5/16" lower than normal. Now the motor mount plates swing up under the racks, so there is some wiggle room, but would the racks being down an extra 5/16" cause a problem? The only I-beam build I have found is "buibui"s but it appears he hasn't posted on the forum in a couple of years...his X-rails are mounted flush so the racks are under the beam flange. Wonder if he had to modify the motor plates?
Not trying to just change things for the fun of it...have several reasons for going I-beam. And this will actually be, in American steel industry terms, a "W" profile, but most people refer to it as an "I" beam..."W" shapes have flat top and bottom flanges (excellent for bolting to without having to deal with tapered washers...and I got one 40' long for a song)

[cleyte]

1planeguy

I have used I-beams and followed the build of BuiBui very closely. To have the rack mount directly under the X-rail, we have removed a portion of the I-beam to accommodate the length/width of the rack.

Cutting out a portion of the I-beam is similar to cutting down the x-rails. Attach a straight edge and follow it with a cutting disk.

Clayton

[1planeguy]

The cutting a flange back sounds like a extra pile of work...is there a compelling reason not to let the X-rail overhang like on a channel beam build? I did find a build thread that showed the X-rail overhanging...
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3565
I have access to one of those metal cutting circular saws that supposedly would make cutting the flange back pretty easy

[racedirector]

The beauty of building an MM is that anything is possible. The only downside to doing what you propose is a little more deadspace that would equal the I beam flange width. Just take that into account when planning your Y width and you'll be good to go.

Cheers

[cleyte]

IMO it looks better when the x-rails are flush with the outside of the beam. Also, there is no overhanging metal to hook your shirt into as you walk around!!!

Clayton

[smreish]

Aesthetics are one thing...steel yield is another.
One of the reason's for the "under length" C channel is due to steel availability length.
Gerald had plenty of forethought in getting one machines main beams out of 1 standard length of 8" channel. If the beams were longer to completely support the angle, or not cut at an angle - it would require you to purchase more steel. The overhanging rail section is within the structural needs of the machine - thus a sound choice.

The "little overhanging" for those on the budget conscious machine, save about 250.00-400.00 for not having to purchase more steel for the sides.

...my little 2 cents worth today!

[cleyte]

I agree completely.

If you choose to use channel, you accept the overhang as you should not cut into the channel to eliminate the overhang. It would compromise the channel.

If you elect to go with the I-beam, it would be OK to remove a a small amount of steel from the outer edge.

Clayton

[Fox]

I used I beams as well. I orginally intended to put the rack under the (supposedly :()parallel flange of the I beam.... for aesthetics plus it saved me some width ( very limited room around the BIG machine ).

After finding out the flange was tapered instead of parallel :eek: I also partly cut the flanges back ( it's only a portion not the entire flange width), since my gantry was already cut and welded. But in hindsight I would recommend to cut it back anyway ... or let it overhang like the original with the C beam, mounting the rack on the rail is more accurate.

Either option is fine, as long as your mathematics add up. As stated my motivation for less width and aesthetics led me to the first option. Do mind you have to be comfotable that every deviation from Gerald's plans (obviously) requires more input/planning ( equals work ) from the builder.

Your choice...:D

[1planeguy]

If your top flanges weren't parallel then your "I" beam was what in the industry is referred to as a "S" shape..."I" beams with parallel flanges are known as "W" shapes...clear as mud right :-)
I've been in structural steel design for 20+ years...doesn't mean I know how to make a Mechmate out of it, but I do know steel :-)

The extra inch or so of width by overhanging the x-rails isn't a deal breaker, so I'm gonna go that route...gotta figure up the extra width to keep my cut width what I need...

[Fox]

Hotrolled 200 mm I-beam still is only so-so in terms of dead-on dimensions ( it can vary in mm not in tenths of a mm - look up the norms), so even if you get your hands on the W beam I would still recommend; cut out the flange or extended like the orginal plans so you can mount the rack on the rail, like Gerald intended.

Think about it, if you are shimming the rails because your beam is uneven, then your rack will not be parallel with the rail when it's mounted under the I beam flange. It's not a lucky coincedence, Gerald has designed it the way he has, he thinks about that stuff ;)

It's all relative of course ( the pinion is spring loaded and allows for a wobble + the tape cushions ).

[KenC]

if one is bothered by the less then 1" (25mm) overhang of the rail, surely one would be impossible to accept the motors overhanging.
I'm not bothered by both or any overhang of any sort in the original MM design.

[1planeguy]

Agree with both the above posts...gonna overhang the angle and mount the rack under the angle instead of the flange. Fox is correct on the hot-rolled steel tolerances. The AISC (American institute of steel construction) allows rolling mills +1/8 -0 in flange width on a W-section...tolerance might vary in other parts of the world.

[Fox]

One is also bothered by the motors, so much in fact one came up with a cunning plan to have the motors pointing inwards from his gearboxes, so the motors are running under the flange ( handy thing that I beam :D)

[1planeguy]

Got the machine structure modeled and data to the steel shop. Everything you see will come to me as a ready to weld/bolt package. All plates with holes, beam flanges with holes, everything cut to exact length.

According to the 3d steel modeling program I use, that is 2209 lbs of steel right there...Believe this will be a "solid" table...

Picture here.... (http://x.co/3e8n1)

Cutting area will be 12'-6 x 4'-6...to get the length I needed I am basically running this thing within a couple feet of the building walls on 3 sides...will have just enough room to slip around it to sweep and check on the machine. Because of that problem, I have arranged the bracing to allow 4'x8' sheets to slip between the legs on the near side to a storage rack on the bottom. All loading will be over the rail :( unless a roll up door is raised and then can come from the end...don't like that, but that is the option I have...(you know the saying, when you have lemons, you make lemonade...)

Ready to get going!!! Should have a laser kit coming from Metalhead in the next few days and this steel package will be 2 weeks out...soooooo time to figure out the electrics and get a kitchen table project going.

[Tom Ayres]

Rock-n-Roll! Will you remove materials over the rail too? You may have to come up with something to slip over the rail for protection.

[1planeguy]

Rock-n-Roll! Will you remove materials over the rail too? You may have to come up with something to slip over the rail for protection.

I thought about that...my rails are gonna be ground rails...was thinking the rails are definitely not gonna get hurt by plywood/MDF but the ply/MDF could get gouged some. wonder if I could find something like those plastic U-channel things that ice skaters put on their blades when they come off the ice?

[Tom Ayres]

I was thinking something like that too. The other issue would be rail alignment. I'd think you need to keep from smacking it around, so what ever it is really has to guard against that as well.

[pblackburn]

As long as you are not throwing the wood, it will not be hurt. I have to side load my machine only as I have a wall that is inconveniently in the way of the loading section of the Mechmate. The hardened V-rails I actually use to help slide the wood onto the spoilboard. I have never seen any damage to the wood as of yet.

[1planeguy]

Good to know...and high five to another "space challenged" Mechmater ;-)

[smreish]

...I made some rail caps by ripping a dado in the center of a 2x4 for each rail to keep everything safe when loading over the rail or just parking the machine at night.

People in my shop had a tendency to use the rails as a place to drop hard heavy things from the forklift when driving around. The 2x made a nice cover.

[1planeguy]

Nice idea...like it.

[pblackburn]

If you are referring to the spoilboard distance from the floor, I would recommend a little lower than your hip joint height (two inches below). This allows for easier reach from the open ends of the bedway. The reason I say this is because if you are 6'6" a bed that is 26" from the floor if working at it all day is a back pain but a bed that is 36" and you are 4'8" will cause discomfort also. You best comfort zone is around your naval for standing work on a workbench but the machine is not a workbench however you seem to want be able to use it as one also. So you need to form the build based on your needs.

[1planeguy]

Know what you mean...no such thing as one size fits all. Good info.

[1planeguy]

Okay, looking for the pros and cons. Is a stupid long story...but end of it is this, I already have a 2.2 KW chinese spindle with the matching HuanYang (sp) VFD sitting in a box waiting to be installed on something. I use a Hitachi M12VC on the little plywood CNC I have now...it has been bulletproof and about as complicated as an anvil. It isn't horribly loud, but supposedly the spindle is quieter. In this Mechmate I am going to setup the router/spindle to be controlled by MACH 3 (it isn't on the current machine). In trying to get my head around all the electrics, I completely see how this works for the router but the whole spindle with chinese instructions has me banging my forehead on the table. Am considering just getting rid of the thing and sticking with a router.

Give me an opinion...

If you have one of these spindles and know of a decent tutorial on setting it up wiring-wise I would be much appreciative of a pointer. Have spent some time on CNCZone, which is like trying to read the original chinese instructions...aggravating at best.

I guess I really want to know if there is enough "benefit" from the spindle to justify the learning curve to set the thing up...I seem to see plenty of MechMates with a simple store-bought router...

[Tom Ayres]

I've not got my machine going yet, but have set up my VFD/2.2kw spindle for trial run and testing. I can tell you that it operates much much quieter (until tool starts cutting the materials) than any router I've ever encountered (almost whisper quiet (depending on how well you could hear before)). The 2.2kw spindle operates all speed ranges at a true 3hp while the hand routers rated at 3.25hp (peak)are really operate just over 2hp. WAY worth the headache imho.

[smreish]

The spindle could be wired as simple as a standard 3 wire run set up....start, stop and enable.
The speed and direction of rotation could be preset on VFD front panel. Once you get into cutting a lot of the same thing, you go months without changing the spindle speed.

I personally used both on my machine. Both worked fine, but the router was a PC 1758 and incredibly loud. The spindle I had to check and see if it was on! Love the spindle...

[1planeguy]

Okay, I'm convinced...quiet is good, hp is ALWAYS good. Sooooo next point to ponder would be where's a good tutorial for hooking up the thing. The VFD is complete Greek to me...you can't even call me a beginner. I understand why Gerald wanted people to read and learn instead of giving out a bill of materials and a step by step how to guide...I've learned a ton already working thru my personal wiring diagram...heck I might not even let the magic smoke out, but I'm finding nothing of educational value about the HuanYang VFD. I have searched CNCZone and have found countless mentions of the VFD and have read till I'm cross-eyed but have yet to find much in the way of "knowledge"...:o

[servant74]

I remember seeing a post somewhere about one guy that put a 'warning light' on his CNC machine to denote the spindle being powered on because of it being basically silent until it starts cutting.

[dbinokc]

If you do a search on youtube you will find several videos on using the HuanYang VFD. I bought the same type of setup. I have not tested it yet, but I am not concerned about getting it working when I am ready to install it.

[1planeguy]

Will check youtube. Didn't even think of that one... ;-)

[Tom Ayres]

Jack, That sounds like a good idea.

[1planeguy]

Am trying to get my head around several things, electric-wise, and want a clarification. When using the SI12-C2 NPN NO H proxy sensors, the spec sheet says they will work with 10-30VDC...if you power them from the start with 12V and then each additional sensor causes a little voltage drop...you very likely get below the 10V minimum before the circuit is completed (leading to a iffy situation, function-wise, if I have got my head around this)...so best idea is to power the circuit with 24V to begin with...and with the PMDX 126 and its ability to handle 24V into its inputs you have no worries of harming the BOB and no need to add relays/etc. Does this sound right?

Second question would be about the power supply. The Antek units have a main voltage that comes off the coil, but different versions also have a couple of lower voltage taps as well. I seem to remember reading of a 48V model with a 12V and 5V hookup as well. I can't this one mentioned on their site...does anyone know a location for it?

If I am understanding the proxy circuit right it would seem that I would also need something to supply 24V as well...is there one power supply that will handle this as well?

[smreish]

The Antek unit your referring to is here:
http://www.antekinc.com/power-supplies/

When you look at the chart you will need to work out the math for your PS current needs.

The part number should look like this PS-xN XX XX
The first is the Wattage size of the PS
The second is the 1st alternate tap you want (24V, 12V or 5V)
The third is the 2nd alternate tap you want (12v or 5V)

For instance, my machine used a 600 Watt, 56 Volt with a 12V tap and 5v tap.
Thus PS-6R56N12R5 (I know the new website shows a slightly different part number scheme...but close for demonstration)

Make sense?

[dbinokc]

When I bought my power supply, they did not have the add on low voltage supplies in stock. I decided to just use DIN mounted 24V power supply for the proximity sensors. I have also purchased a 5V DIN.

[Fox]

I also purchased a seperate DIN rail powersupply, cause Antek burned down at the time and shipping woudl kill me anyway. So I built my own toroid powersupply for the drives and used seperate Din powersupply for the prox and controller board.
I can recommend the brand Meanwell. They cost me about the same as a stepdown regulator ) would but with the advantadge of the isolation and they boost a V ok led and signal output ( not that you need it, but )

[1planeguy]

Great info guys...finally had an "ah-ha" moment on the power supply sizing...Will go with the 48V main with 12 + 5 V secondary taps, and just get the DIN mounted 24V PS for the proxy sensor circuit. Should start having presents from the UPS man start showing up on the doorstep soon :-)
New guys take note...if you keep reading this electrical stuff, it actually starts to make sense...imagine that.

[Fox]

I know that feeling ;-)

One tip: properly write down the dececisons you make and their motivation, as the conclusions to any calculations on these electrics... now that they are obvious. File them with your plans. What seems logical now, can give you headaches in a few years time when you need to repair/reroute something. If it's on paper it will take minutes, otherwhise hours to find in that grey mass ( especially when deviating from the plans/common methods). Those WTFWDIDT* moments aint funny when you have a deadline.





*(What The F*ck Why Did I Do That ?)

[1planeguy]

Have actually already started that :-) I realized a few years ago that if I HAVE to remember something it better be written down. I have a 11x17 printer...I have been printing the wiring diagrams, large format, and drawing sketches and doing the calcs long hand...documentation it's a good thing :-)

[1planeguy]

Well, after off and on planning and parts buying, I finally attacked metal. Decided to get the part I've been dreading the worst out of the way first...the electrical stuff. The metal work is kinda fun to me...the electric stuff is an alien language. Gonna post a few pictures of my kitchen table project then ask a question or 2.

(Did a quick pattern layout in CAD of the PMDX boards, Smoothstepper and various other items to locate holes.)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/Pictures/1sm.jpg

(Thin layer of spray glue on the back of the plot and stick it to the removable panel from the box...center punch the holes)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/Pictures/2sm.jpg

(Drill all the holes appropriate sizes)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/Pictures/3sm.jpg


http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/Pictures/4sm.jpg

(Coat of color on the box...sorry this MechMate is gonna be safety red...cheaper than the Ferrari shade I had in mind)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/Pictures/5sm.jpg

(Mount everything on the panel)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/Pictures/6sm.jpg

(Outputs from the contactor wired to a test light to test the main power circuit...everything clicks on and off with the door mounted switch, and the test circuit with the Emergency Stop button pops the contactor off just like planned...so far the magic smoke has been kept inside)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/Pictures/7sm.jpg

[MetalHead]

Looking good !!!
No smoke is a good thing !!

[1planeguy]

Am using KL34H280-45-8A motors...wiring them UNIPOLAR. The spec sheet with the motors shows them pulling 4.5A wired unipolar. The silk-screened chart on the body of the G203V's says 62K @ 4A and 120k @ 5A...so split the difference? 91K +/-?
Looking for opinions.

[1planeguy]

Can't remember the model number, but is the common switch used from FactoryMation...the bulb doesn't appear to have anyway to lock into the holder other than friction...is this normal? Any significant bump makes the bulb lose contact and I assume the vibration of the machine will certainly make it jostle loose in no time. Does this sound normal?

http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/Pictures/Light_bulb.jpg

[Tom Ayres]

doesn't sound normal to me.

[1planeguy]

I'll take it apart and get a good close up picture off it...I'm wondering if the holder might be a defective unit...

[1planeguy]

http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/Pictures/bulb_holder.jpg

Does this look normal?

[Tom Ayres]

Doesn't the switch hold it in? because it looks normal to me.

[1planeguy]

The bulb has a contact spring under it and the bulb can push up about a quarter inch before touching anything on the switch which allows the side contact on the bulb to let go. Isn't a show stopper...the switch circuit works even if the bulb comes loose.

[Tom Ayres]

I have one of those switches but ended up using another from Automationdirect for some reason.

[Fox]

you twist the bulb to lock them in place.
Your holder is either broken ( where it woudl catch the bulb), or you just have to do that so it latches.

[1planeguy]

Didn't notice the notch inside the socket...but the bulb did lock in place. Guess I was expecting a socket like the typical car tail light. All good now.

[Fox]

there ya go :D

[1planeguy]

How does one change the title of their build thread? And does a kitchen table project justify a bump out of the "planning stage" category?

[domino11]

You just have to ask! :)

[Tom Ayres]

Go ahead, ask :p

[1planeguy]

How does one change the title of their build thread? And does a kitchen table project justify a bump out of the "planning stage" category?

Awesome...one milestone down ;-) out of the "planning" stage...

[pblackburn]

Welcome to your new home!

[1planeguy]

Would rather move into that "Mechmate's already cutting" home :-)

[darren salyer]

Soon, grasshopper.....

[1planeguy]

Well...progress happens sometimes. Was waiting on some wire to finish up the kitchen table project, so decided to get in the shop and weld some of the smaller parts.

(tacked the spacer ring into the universal motor plates (for the Metalhead gearbox setup)...the ID on the ring is pretty snug...had to "hone" it out a bit with a rat tail file chucked in a drill. (I know...real machinist would pass out at the thought of that...sorry))
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/8sm.jpg

(Same plate cleaned up with a quick pass on a wire wheel)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/8_cleaned_sm.jpg

I elected to assemble the gearbox a bit different from the instructions. I cut the tab off that was to be bent over completely. This allowed the top plate to be put on (temporarily) rotated 180 degrees. This allowed for easy marking of the cut location for the tab that has to be cut fairly accurately (see the "blue and scratch" step on Metalhead's instructions" The other thing is that the flanged bearings lift up the sprocket and give it a bit of "wobble" when you are clamping it together with the 1/2" bolt...this made me a bit uneasy. I took a few of the 12mm washers and spaced them out around the sprocket to lock it down. These washers are a few thousandths thicker than the lip on the flanged bearing so they add a tiny bit of margin to help reassembly of the whole mess after welding and painting.
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/9sm.jpg
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/10sm.jpg

(The tab that I cut off is recut to the right length and welded back in. I am TIGing these parts, so weld spatter is very unlikely...So I left everything clamped in place to ensure alignment during/after welding)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/11sm.jpg

(Please don't grade the welds...I haven't TIG'ed in a couple of years...I had to clean the dust off the machine...kinda sad actually)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/12sm.jpg

(The Z-gearbox)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/13sm.jpg

(Read in an old post where Gerald said the countersinking of the holes in the Y-car end plates wasn't a critical issue...just a clearance issue, and he used a drill bit. Since I didn't have a countersink handy, I just used a 5/8" bit...definitely crude...but economical)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/14sm.jpg

(One side of the main Y-car plate wasn't bent quite enough...quick clamp in the brake and give it a nudge)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/15sm.jpg

(Got everything aligned and locked in place with threaded rod (Suggestion from the forum...worked like a champ))
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/16sm.jpg

(weld up the idler holddown bearing support)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/17sm.jpg

(Start making puddle welds)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/19sm.jpg

(Y-car welding complete. Let it cool and touch-up with the grinder. First coat of primer and caulking seams this weekend)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/20sm.jpg

[Fox]

Good amount of work!

Ps. You might have a clearance issue with the weld on the idler, see drawings.

[1planeguy]

Good amount of work!

Ps. You might have a clearance issue with the weld on the idler, see drawings.

And you would be absolutely right... Soon as I read your warning, I remembered the note on the drawing. (And for those keeping score that is Forum 1 - Me 0 ) ;-)

That is a great reason for posting build pictures here...experienced eyes back checking things ;-) (This is still at the "oops" stage...quick work with a grinder to clear it up...after it is painted and being final assembled...then that is the "OH s$*t!!! stage...I like to avoid getting into that one.)

[MetalHead]

Is that a Syncro 200 tig? I have the same box. Your welds still look better than mine:) !!

Good progress, did you get your wire ?

[1planeguy]

It is the Syncro 200...it's a nice unit. That said, I took a weekend class on welding thin chromoly a few years ago and spent 12 hours in 2 days working with a Lincoln precision TIG 185...it was soooo easy to lay beautiful beads on .035 tubing...and hardly ever blew holes in it.

Wire is here...waiting on a pack of resistors to get here to make the kitchen table project turn...fun stuff!

[lonestaral]

Looking very professional, is this your first ?:)

[1planeguy]

First MechMate...not first CNC. Been fabricating homebuilt airplanes for years (the REAL reason for building this machine...not the made up stuff about craft projects that convinced my wife to let me spend all the extra time in the shop ;-)

[1planeguy]

Getting close to wiring my motors to the Geckos for a kitchen table test. According to what I've read in the "sticky" threads in the motor section, I intend to run these motors Unipolar. This is basically using 2 of the 4 coils in the motor. The motor has 8 wires coming out of it, of which I will use 4 of them. There is a + and - for both the A and B side...and if I am understanding this correctly, if I use the A+ I BETTER use the B+...or bad things will happen...conversely I could use A- and B-...so long as I use both +'s or both -'s...does this sound right?

Looking at the attached spec sheet...let's say I want to use the + coils. I would wire the blue/A+ to the Gecko 203V terminal 3, and the red/A comm to the Gecko terminal 4. Then the brown/B+ to the Gecko terminal 5, and the Black/B comm to the Gecko terminal 6.

Sound close? If I do this, is there a reasonable expectation that the magic smoke will stay in the motors? :confused:

[pblackburn]

Not to confuse you but a unipolar driver is different than a bipolar driver. I think you are suggesting half coil. Unipolar normally indicates a 6 lead motor. I personally would opt for the higher low and high speed torque and wire parallel. I do not know how an 8 lead motor would perform wired Bipolar half coil

Reference
http://probotix.com/stepper_motors/unipolar_bipolar/

http://mechatronics.mech.northwestern.edu/design_ref/actuators/stepper_intro.html

[1planeguy]

Was using the terminology from the thread here
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2513&postcount=1
And from the motor spec sheet.
Have already got the power supply voltage sized for the amp draw of it wired unipolar...so committed that route. Just need to verify the proper wiring.


Not to confuse you but a unipolar driver is different than a bipolar driver. I think you are suggesting half coil. Unipolar normally indicates a 6 lead motor. I personally would opt for the higher low and high speed torque and wire parallel. I do not know how an 8 lead motor would perform wired Bipolar half coil

Reference
http://probotix.com/stepper_motors/unipolar_bipolar/

http://mechatronics.mech.northwestern.edu/design_ref/actuators/stepper_intro.html

[pblackburn]

I know, the terminology thing is hard to get by. Unipolar and Bipolar half coil work out to same in calculated values. For some reason everyone say Unipolar for wiring but if you call a manufacturer and tell them you are wiring unipolar, they will assume a 6 lead connection. Trust me, I have been through it. You want to wire half coil, ok. The scenario you list will wire fine. If one is reversed, so will the direction. Make sure you calculate the current limiting resistor and terminated before powering up and tape of the remaining leads individually.

[1planeguy]

When you say "one is reversed" are you referring to the "-" side instead of the "+" side?...I guess I really want to be sure I am correct with saying "use both +'s or -'s but don't use one of each..." and I'm referring to on the same motor...ie use A+ and B- coils

[racedirector]

I have always used Mach to reverse motors, not the wiring. The advantage of that is if you run into a problem you can move a motor anywhere on your machine to test things out. Don't know what anyone else thinks of that but I have never had a problem doing it that way.

[pblackburn]

If you use mach you are doing the same by changing the step or direction signals.

Reference Here (http://reprap.org/wiki/Stepper_wiring#Plug_it_into_the_stepper_driver) and read the section header 'Plug it into the stepper driver'

[pblackburn]

You put one coil from A side on the terminals you listed. You put one coil from B side on the other set of terminals. Whether it is

A blue
A- red
B brown
B- black

or

A red
A-blue
B brown
B- black

is up to you. Only changes the rotation. But you do not want to have A wired half coil and B wire Full Coil (series).

[pblackburn]

The plus or minus you refer to is actually phase not polarity.

[1planeguy]

Roger...think we can keep the magic smoke inside. Time to wire :) Thanks for taking the time to answer Pete

[1planeguy]

Quick update. Went to a local steel supply to get the gantry tubes. They had a nice saw that I was assured would give me a good square cut...not so much. Loaded a 20' piece and cut the first one an inch long so we could stack it on the leftover piece...do an accurate measure and gang cut to the final length. ASSUMING the saw would cut square, this would assure 2 tubes, both square and equal length. Well you know the old saying about what "ASSUMING" does? Well, it did... I didn't notice the blade was probably last changed sometime right before WW2...it was so dull it wandered all over and made a mess of my tube. I didn't even realize that (because I didn't bring a square) till I got the tubes back to my shop. I clamped them together and started checking things out and realized the problem. The blade wandered to the long side of the cut (thankfully) so my tubes were still salvageable without having to make adjustments to my table dimensions. Buuuuuuttttt since making another cut with a bandsaw would be next to impossible without moving back far enough for the band to have some metal to bite into, I pulled out a file and started whittling away...
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/21sm.jpg

Well that got old REAL quick, and since I have a friend with a full-on machine shop...I called in a favor. I tack welded the 2 tubes together and headed over to said friends milling machine. Now this mill is circa 1940, and as such is hell for stout. He chucked up a 7/8" endmill, clamped the tubes in the vise and started whittling down till he got both ends dead on square. Problem solved...
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/22sm.jpg

Since I had to order a tap to make the clamping strips for the inside of the tubes, I went ahead and went back to finishing up the kitchen table project...and figured I might as well watch the motors spin the "close to finished" gearboxes. So I reassembled one that I welded up a few days ago and was very happy with the ease it went back together...everything stayed put during the welding (and cooling) so it lined back up with no issues...life in the shop (today) is good ;-)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/23sm.jpg

[smreish]

...you will thank yourself for the care of those 2 cuts! If you are wrong on that dimension, the shimming of the Vee wheels becomes a long challenge.

Thank you for documenting for the forum...pictures are everything!

[1planeguy]

I kinda suspected the "long challenge" part of that :-) In my mind if those 2 tubes were not dead on even there would be a LOOOONNGG day of shimming wheels in my future.

No problem with the documenting...I have already benefited from the experienced eyes back checking me for errors...


...you will thank yourself for the care of those 2 cuts! If you are wrong on that dimension, the shimming of the Vee wheels becomes a long challenge.

Thank you for documenting for the forum...pictures are everything!

[1planeguy]

at least the motors turn from the PMDX 126 test :-)

I'm just tickled that sparks didn't fly. Checked all 4 motors thru the PMDX test. On to the Smoothstepper next...

Link to video here (http://youtu.be/f8giD86yWDA)

[Tom Ayres]

Wow Man your going to be done before I even get my serial number :D

[1planeguy]

Already had the gantry tubes tacked together, so aligned the clamp strips on the tubes and just tacked them to the top. I measured off the bolt holes and center punched all of them at once.
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/24sm.jpg

Moved the whole mess over to the drill press and worked my way through all the holes.
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/25sm.jpg

Cut the tacks loose to separate all the pieces and carefully ground down the remainder of the tack welds. Up drilled the tube holes to 17/64 to pass a 1/4" bolt. I clamped the clamp strips to the work table and started threading them all. This little bit works MAGIC...it is a drill tap deburr bit made by Greenlee. Like the name says it can drill-tap-deburr all in one shot, but since I had the strips and gantry tubes stacked to match drill at once I used a separate bit. Once ready to tap though, drip a little oil on that bit and let it rip...when it bottoms out and the deburr edge hits, reverse the drill and back it out. 26 holes took 3-4 minutes.
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/26sm.jpg
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/27sm.jpg

Gantry shimmed, squared and welded...
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/28sm.jpg
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/29sm.jpg

[1planeguy]

On to the rails (ominous music plays...)
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/30sm.jpg

[Tokamak]

Nice build!

[KenC]

Getting there!
Nice work!

[1planeguy]

ok, got a question for the folks that used a external heatsink in their control box. did you sandwich the control box side between the heatsink and the geckos?...or cut out the control box side to allow the heat sink to contact the bottom of the geckos?

[pblackburn]

I cut the box and used thermal transfer paste so the geckos say directly on the heat sink. Sandwich method will kill your thermal transfer.

[1planeguy]

That was my concern...Was thinking thermal tape on both side of the panel side, but the cutout is probably the way to go.

[1planeguy]

And thanks for the quick reply

[Duds]

A steel control box makes an excellent heat sync itself. It has a large mass and surface area.

[pblackburn]

As long as the box is big enough. Yes the box will work. If it is small you can raise the internal temperature up and possibly cause heat issues. Placing the heat outside the box on the fins of the heatsink is preferred.

[KenC]

Not sandwiched. Mount the the heat sink out side and cut the panel so that my driver can tape to the heat-sink directly.

[MetalHead]

Ditto on the cut out.

Look at Gary's box here.

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=52768&postcount=76

[1planeguy]

For lack of the willpower to tell the whole sad tale...what is the best place to get the prescribed fuses for the inside of a Gecko 203 drive? Mouser or ???

[pblackburn]

Who ever carries them. You can contact Gecko Drive also. They have great customer support.

[1planeguy]

K, have ordered from MOuser before, they were pretty rough on shipping and handling...was hoping there might be another supplier. Will try Gecko

[1planeguy]

Got side tracked for a couple of months with the real job. Blew the dust off the 90% done kitchen table project. Re-discovered the real danger of getting side-tracked from a project like this. You forget where you were at...I started looking for what was still left to be finished and reviewing the wiring diagrams...things just got "fuzzy" after sitting for several months. The net result was sending 48V reverse polarity to the PMDX 134 board with all 4 of my Gecko 203V's attached...promptly zapping their internal fuses. That was the exact moment that I realized spending the little extra money for the 203's was SUCH a good thing, because I would have just turned the cheaper Geckos into paperweights. In this case I made a call to the nice folks at Gecko and ask them how much a set of those little fuses would cost and was informed they "were on the house"...including the shipping. To say Geckodrives has good customer service is the understatement of the year. Those folks are awesome!

A few pictures of the progress made getting the dust blown off the project.

Cutting the side of the box to allow the Geckos to make direct contact to the heat sink...
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/31sm.jpg

Attaching the heat sinks with a couple of bolts and a few blind rivets.
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/32sm.jpg

Mounted the Geckos to the heat sink with a thermal pad. All was going well...right up until I zapped the fuses in the drivers :-(
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/33sm.jpg

In other progress, got Mach3 installed on a laptop, IP address configured and talking to the ethernet smoothstepper. Need to verify it is talking to the PMDX 126. Not sure yet if Mach is seeing both of the emulated LPT ports that the ESS provides. Want to hook up a quickie test circuit to emulate a Z-zero touch probe and verify that Mach can see it.

Onward...

[smreish]

...Gecko has always been awesome with Customer service. Glad you had a good experience too.

[KenC]

Nicely done!
Other then lowering the box temperature & cool looking box. The added bonus of a external heat sink is that you free up lots of premium box space instantly. Easier to for organizing your wiring & more room for more bells & whistle.

[1planeguy]

Ken, I thought for a while about sticking the computer in the box as well...plenty of room. Could have mounted the motherboard and everything on the door and made it nice and clean. Theeeeeeennnnnn I went in to a Best Buy and saw how cheap touch screen laptops are getting. I decided the box mounted PC would actually have more cables (keyboard, mouse, monitor) running between the workstation and the box then a laptop setup with a ESS (ethernet cable) So I am setting it up with an old laptop and one day I will switch it out to a touch screen laptop to run MACH 3 to give touch screen control of MACH 3.

[1planeguy]

Well...it is a good thing to have this forum. Without this I would have no one to hear the "WOO HOO's" when I figure something out ;-) Family doesn't exactly "get" the whole CNC build in the garage thing and certainly don't understand the satisfaction of figuring out something that has had you beating your head on the wall for a few hours. Let's just say that MACH 3 is in control of the kitchen table project and things MOVE! Got all motors jogging and MACH 3 controlling the spindle relay. Still need to setup a Z-Zero touch plate circuit. intending to go ahead and install 2010 screenset and figure out the particulars there.

Waiting on about 2 tons of steel to get fab'ed for a bolt together Mechmate table and a hydraulic rubber pad press setup for a related but separate project. The shop is about to get BUSY...

Kitchen Table project- MACH 3 in control (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgvyV_wyZ4Y)

[Fox]

I am still waiting for the first one to dress up his steppers like penquins and add some flappy feet the to the axles, when I see those laying next to each other on a test bench :D

Congrats ! Feel nice, heh !?

[KenC]

Separating the PC from control panel is a very wise decision, the control panel space vanishes in a hurry when you put the Mobo in... & the wires for keyboard & other mod-cons....

[1planeguy]

Got to give a pat on the back to fellow MechMate builder "Drexel" on the forum... finished taping his gear rack and realized he had at least another machine worth of 3M tape left...passed his extra down the line to me. Still some generous folks out there in the world...good to meet another one!

Thanks again!

[Rusty Nuts]

Hi 1planeguy

Great looking build. Getting the motors turning is great progress, won't be long now till your making chips. Where is Smiths Station?
I'll be watching from Valley Grande.

Gary

[1planeguy]

Well, the project just got a lot heavier! Had a shop I do work for run the material through their CNC beam line. Everything is pre-punched and cut to length...now time to fire up the welder and stick metal together!
http://www.kilocharlie.us/mechmate/pictures/34sm.jpg
http://www.kilocharlie.us/mechmate/pictures/35sm.jpg
http://www.kilocharlie.us/mechmate/pictures/36sm.jpghttp://www.kilocharlie.us/mechmate/pictures/37sm.jpg

[Fox]

Dang, everytime you think you've seen it all... Pre punched cnc cut beams, that's like triple word value in the diy cnc builder world. I thought I was being fancy when I welded mine one a big welding table at my friends shop. ;)

[rcboats1]

That's cheating, (I wish I had thought of that).

[Tom Ayres]

Its not really cheating if you can afford it or you have friends in the right places.;)

[Alan_c]

I still think its cheating (only because I can't afford it and my friends are definitely not in the right places :D )

[servant74]

Yep. Cheating is a relative term. It is only cheating because I don't have friendly local vendors and friends with the capabilities either!

It is good to see that someone else thinks out of the box and uses the tools and facilities available to them! Yep, I am jealous because I can't find a way to cheat like that too!

Way to go 1planeguy!

[Tom Ayres]

Alan, look at it this way he doesn't get to experience all of the build like the rest of us.

[Alan_c]

LOL Tom, so what you are saying is we need to feel sorry for 1planeguy? :rolleyes: :D

[Tom Ayres]

Exactly what I said:D

[1planeguy]

I'll even admit this is cheating ;-) If you saw the accuracy this stuff is cut to...Y'all would probably throw me off the Mechmate builders site. There are actually 2 projects on that trailer...a 50 ton shop press for doing rubber pad forming and the 5'x12' mechmate. I'm actually welding up the press first. The I-beams are cut within 1/32 of intended length and dead square. I saw a demonstration of the CNC saw that did a squaring cut and then moved the beam down and cut a perfect 1/8 slice off the end (of a 21" tall beam)...it makes trying to make things square a heck of alot easier for sure.

[pblackburn]

I can't say anything other than great idea. I did most of my build using various equipment I had access to (cnc and manual mills and lathes, heat treat processes, etc). That kept the cost down and improved the quality of the build. I would not say it is cheating but rather an appropriate use of resources.

[1planeguy]

Got the steel for the Mechmate and one other project a while back. For a couple of reasons the "other" project actually took priority over the Mechmate, so I've been working on it and storing the Mechmate material. Thought some folks might be interested in the "other" project. (Have seen a few builders that were using their Mechmate to make aircraft parts) This is a rubber pad forming press. I put a few pictures in a Flickr album...several in progress photos and a computer rendering of the final result. Waiting on a shipment of high strength bolts then paint and set the bed in place on the hydraulic rams. Gonna be interesting !

https://www.flickr.com/photos/128567605@N03/16211153435/in/set-72157647813898144/

[IMMark]

Wow, looks awesome. I have seen, a much smaller scale version, and was impressed with the results. Please keep posting progress, would love to see that working.
Thanks
Mark

[1planeguy]

Finally got the other project out of the way and got started assembling the MechMate "kit" I had cut and punched earlier. After a couple hours of work, I got the baseplates and capplates for the posts welded on and temporarily bolted together. Starting to come together...
http://www.kilocharlie.us/mechmate/pictures/39sm.jpeg

http://www.kilocharlie.us/mechmate/pictures/38sm.jpeg

http://www.kilocharlie.us/mechmate/pictures/40sm.jpeg

http://www.kilocharlie.us/mechmate/pictures/41sm.jpeg

http://www.kilocharlie.us/mechmate/pictures/42sm.jpeg

http://www.kilocharlie.us/mechmate/pictures/43sm.jpeg

[Fox]

Interesting approach, are you going to do something similair to the sides with braces tot avoid racking?

[1planeguy]

End to end the thing is already rock solid. Have diagonal tube braces to weld between the legs and the ends of the main beams with a cap plate to maintain the ability to break it down. The side to side direction is my only concern with the bolted connection between the legs and the cross channel. With the movement against a shear connection like that, it will be tough not to get some wiggle there. Am considering laying a bead of weld across the top and bottom of that joint knowing if it ever does need to come apart it will just be a quick cut with the side cutter to break it down.

[Robert M]

Interesting approach

I'll second that :rolleyes:
Looking forward seeing the advancement !
All the best

[1planeguy]

Test fit the long angles to the main beams...surprise surprise...all the CNC punched holes lined up. Getting ready to cut them down to height and start the grinding. Got the diagonal braces welded in...they have a plate at the top to allow it to be broke down if the need ever arises.http://www.kilocharlie.us/mechmate/pictures/44sm.jpeg
http://www.kilocharlie.us/mechmate/pictures/45sm.jpeg

[HomeMadeCnc]

Thats one beefy build!
Looking real good
Cheers
Tim

[1planeguy]

Okay all you guys that have wired the Huanyang inverter. Am having a brainless moment and don't want to let the smoke out of the thing. When you wire a standard 220V-single phase in the U.S. you have 2 "hot" leads of 110v apiece (typically colored red and black) then a common or neutral (white) and then the ground (green)...well everything I've read says that to wire it 220V single phase I use the R,S and E terminals...from what I see on youtube videos and I few sources from varies companies that import them is black to R, white to S and green to E. Well that is missing a whole 110v leg? It isn't 220V?! I'm lost and am not afraid to admit it...I would be ashamed to admit I smoked the thing because I was afraid to say I was lost...but I digress...
Picture to follow...

http://www.kilocharlie.us/Mechmate/pictures/wire%20question.jpg

[Tom Ayres]

I looked at my set up and as far as I can see the R & T are the 2 legs the W is neutral and the Ground is green.

[HomeMadeCnc]

Heres my basic setup
Incoming power on the left and spindle on the right

[Tom Ayres]

oops, I guess i had better look at mine a bit better, all my wiring is black and numbered and didn't look at it correctly while hanging my head upside-down, sorry:o

[1planeguy]

Tim, you being in Canada would be the same standard as the US, at least on being 110v based, as opposed to the UK and others that get 220v on 1 wire. For US/Canada to get 220v we have to use 2 110v legs. Now by colors you are attaching the ground to the R terminal...I thought the ground was supposed to tie to the pin 9? Are your colors off, or am I REALLY lost?

[HomeMadeCnc]

Oh just a wee bit of custom wiring going on ;)
Your correct .
I didn't have the correct color of wire so red it was.
I'm no expert, I still think its all PFM <--old aircraft term meaning Pure F--king Magic

[1planeguy]

I'm good with "custom" color codes (lol) what is attached to what though? Which is wired to the 110v leads and which is the common? (Does it matter?)

[HomeMadeCnc]

Miss read the question sorry, I already have a 220v feed in the shop. I had to split it to 2 circuits of 110 for the computer and outlets on the side of my machine.
As for your specific VFD hook ups I'll plead the 5th and ask you to refer to your owners manual. I'd hate to give you the wrong info and you having to deal with that black curl of smoke.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?106300-220v-from-2-x-110v-plugs

[bradm]

Yikes! See this thread (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/spindles-vfd/74592-help-huanyang-hy02d223b.html)

In North American single phase, it's two hots (red, black), sometimes a neutral (white), and a ground (green). Between the two hots is 220V. Between any hot and the neutral is 110V.

Inverters are designed to output the same voltage that is input. They work by rectifying the input into DC, and then regenerating three phase output with variable frequency to control the motor speed. 220V spindle needs a VFD with 220V input.

Because of that rectifying step, inverters don't care if they have single phase or three phase input, as long as the amperage draw doesn't exceed the capacity of the rectifier, and there is sufficient capacitance designed in. In the single phase case, you are drawing all the amperage from two, not three wires, so the amperage is higher. It's usually only at the low end of the wattage range that inverters will support single phase input - it becomes too inefficient to carry large amounts of amperage on two wires as you move up higher.

So, you should be connecting black and red to R,S. T disconnected. white disconnected. Green to ground. U,V,W to spindle. You should measure 220V between the two legs you connect to R,S.

Now, it turns out that connecting white to T is kind of moot, because the input rectifier ignores it in favor of the higher voltage available between R and S. But it isn't correct.

[1planeguy]

Good info Brad...got a grip on it now. From what I've read, it does no harm to the spindle to do basic "yes it turns" testing without the water cooling hooked up...just talking about, yes we are turning and stop. Anyone actually done this or is that living dangerously?

[Gerald D]

A short bench test with no water is fine.

(When I was in the auto industry, with a little dyno testing of car and truck engines, it was tempting fate to start an engine after filling it with water . . . . too often one had to open the engine and work with water everywhere)

[1planeguy]

Thanks Gerald...Will make it spin today, hopefully.

[1planeguy]

Somewhat "semi-related" to a Mechmate question...

Friend is a prolific model boat builder and ask me to machine a couple of plugs for fiberglass boat hull molds. Have years of 2D cad experience and years of 3D parametric modeling experience (specific to structural steel industry) but this is a different animal. I "think" I need to approach this from a 3D mesh direction but am open to suggestions if anyone is fluent with this. Have an older version of AutoCAD (2002) that does everything I ever need outside of my work 3D software...it has 3D capabilities (extrude 2D objects to 3D etc....). I've been watching some tutorials and have some ideas...the back half is actually easy to model...the bow area has me scratching my head. Example picture attached.

If I can generate a .stl file then importing into VCarve pro 8 and generating toolpath is a cakewalk...no trouble there.
http://www.kilocharlie.us/MechMate/pictures/hull.jpg

[pblackburn]

I will take a stab at trying to answer this, assuming I understood the question correctly.

If you are going to model it outside of Vcarve or Aspire then you will have to import in with one of their supported formats. I can tell you that it will import a rhino 3dm but as with most modelers the file will when opened with appear boxy and not smooth. That is the nature of how most cad programs save. They do not save as a mesh. So if you import a cylinder into VCARVE saved as a dxf or 3dm you will notice it will be more of a polygon than a smooth cylindrical surface. The only way I know to do it is as a mesh as you suggested. I don't know the software you are using but if it is Rhino, there is great information online on the best start points when using the Mesh command.

[Tom Ayres]

If you are copying the model above, you might be able to use a probe and 'plot' the image.

[1planeguy]

Don't have aspire, and looking at the upgrade fee don't think I could justify the cost...That said, I think I can make it work in AutoCAD 2002...have been able to extrude some shapes along a curve (to model the bow area)...think some combination of extruded solids will actually do it.
This has been an interesting project already...learning something new always gets me excited! Always like a challenge!

[dbinokc]

How did the person who made the mold create the shape. Was it hand carved or was some cad software used.

[1planeguy]

My friend actually made the original plug using good 'ol tried and true sanding templates and jigs...hours and hours of sanding. He wants to jump up into another model boat race class and needs that plug enlarged 17%.

[dbinokc]

I guess if I had a similar task things I might try in no particular order are

1. Touch off probe with my mechmate if the height were not too great
2. Touch off probe in my dro mill
3. If the sanding templates fit close, use those get 2d profiles
4. Contour gauge to get 2D profiles

To smooth things out once the points are in the software, I would try to find something that could generate 2D bezier surface from a mesh

I am just throwing ideas out there. Not sure what would be practical and what would not.

[spyderxxx]

What about Delftship free. It's a program used to design boats. Not sure if it exports STL files.

[pblackburn]

You can bring point clouds into Rhino and it will create a surface from the points. That is another option.

[smreish]

...If you don't have a touch probe, which wouldn't take to long, I would put an ad on Craigslist or other for a local person that may have a David's scanner or other scanning tool. Something that small should be pretty cheap.

[1planeguy]

Well ladies and gentleman, have a deal for someone. Thanks to an impending job change and move, this Mechmate project is going to have to go to someone else. Gonna have no good place to finish it and with new job, no time to finish it...such is life.
I'm offering the whole lot up for sale, the project is pretty well documented on this blog up to its current state...still work to do, if you have the itch to build there is plenty to do to scratch that itch. If you are looking to save COUNTLESS hours researching part suppliers and ordering parts, studying wiring diagrams to layout the kitchen table project, then this is the deal for you.

Wide flanged beams for main rails, was designed to bolt together, Frame parts were made on a CNC beam line (huge machine...crazy accurate)... setup for 5'x12' cutting area

If interested, reply to this thread or PM me through this forum. This project is in the state of Alabama, U.S.A. Can possibly arrange delivery (have trailer and some time...buyer paying cost of said delivery obviously...within reason, not crazy about going coast to coast)

Asking $5500...contact with any questions

[darren salyer]

Sounds like a steal for someone. Congrats and condolences all rolled up in one on the job change and move.

[Nikonauts]

http://i.imgur.com/fewz7.jpg

[Robert M]

Love it...bro @_# !!