Cutting Wing Rib Forms #118 - Oklahoma USA

[dbinokc]

What is the size of of the angle iron that is used for the cross rails. I do not see a specification. It looks like maybe 1/4", but I am not sure.

[dbinokc]

Also, what is the meaning of the red hatching in the longitudinal direction I see in drawing 10-10-246-D. Is that some extra length? If so, how much?

[dbinokc]

Never mind, just as soon as I post, I find what I need at M1-10-110-M.

[dbinokc]

What is the english equivalent to 100mmx50mmx2mm rectangular tubing.
The closest in 32nd's would be 3/32, but I see nothing like that.

[baseball43v3r]

the closest equivalent would be 2 in by 4 in by 1/4 in. Also, try asking all your questions in the same thread, as each member is only allowed one build thread per machine.

[dbinokc]

I will be sure to keep keep everything in one thread. I am sure there was an FAQ I was supposed to read somewhere about that.

1/4in is almost 3 times the thickness of what is specified in the drawings. That would seem to add a lot of weight to the gantry. If I needed to go oversize like that, I would think I would be better off with 1/8 wall, if it can be found.

I also just noticed in the similar thread listing,

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232

Too bad that did not pop up before I created this thread.

[MetalHead]

DB - goto the forum main page and look at the sections. In each section there are sticky threads at the top. Read those. Then look in the MechMate's already cutting area and sort on views and start reading through those threads .... did I mention a lot of reading :D. Also as you read more details of the plans will start to jump out at you.

[MetalHead]

I merged your threads.

[dbinokc]

OK,thanks.

[dbinokc]

On page 10-30-455P I see a reference to a higher drawing 10-30-400 W, but I can not find it in the supplied drawings. Perhaps it should be referring to drawing 10-30-420W?

I am also guessing that 10-30-455P should also indicate that 2 of these should be made, based off of what is in 10-30-420W?

As a background. I almost always make 3D models first. That way I know exactly what I need to do before I go into the shop and start cutting metal. I almost always find myself regretting it, when I do not go through this process.

2D drawings always have little ambiguites and errors. I like to find those problems before I get into the shop. I will probably have lots of other little "nitpicks" and questions as I go through this process.

[dbinokc]

Going over the z-axis drawings I notice what may be a typo.

Drawing 10-40-014A shows as being a 250mm slide, but in the drawing spreadsheet at the beginning of the plans, it shows 10-40-014A as a 350mm slide.

10-40-000 shows as a 250mm slide in both locations, so I am assuming that one is correctly labeled.

[smreish]

DB
What release of the drawings do you have? If your referring to the TITLE block in both sets the 10" refers to the stroke distance of the plate, not the actual distance. Use 10 40 330 and 10 40 334 for true length reference of the slide that fits your build requirements. The option allows for an additional 100mm of z-stroke for those needing the extra travel.

[dbinokc]

I do not see an overall revision number for the plans, but I downloaded them from the paid area about 2 days ago.

[smreish]

Then you have the current set.

[dbinokc]

Ok.
The two drawings I am referring to are the assembly drawings for the Z-Slide Assembly. Both drawings say 250mm.
In the drawing index, one is referred to as 250mm and the other 350mm.

[smreish]

Clearly a typo...just know that you have 2 options. Funny, your the first that I know of to pick that one up. With almost 100 known machines, I am certain that little type won't derail the build.

Good luck and don't pain over the drawings - pictures in the forum builds are far more educational. A good pictorial is JR's build.

[dbinokc]

Do you have a link to JR's build. When I do a search I find no user with that name.

[smreish]

#4 machine build....
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329&highlight=north+carolina

[Gerald D]

See Drawing problems and revisions required, considered and intended . . . . . (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75)

I seem to remember this one listed before, but that would be right place to list drawing problem issues.

[dbinokc]

What are the alternatives to using Antek for the power supply or transformer. I tried emailing them today to get some information about one of their power supplies for a non Mechmate project and was not very impressed with the response. In addition I have seen some posts on this forum about some difficulties when ordering from them.

As a result, I am rather reluctant to place an order with them.

[KenC]

The power supply transformers technology is over a century old.
Just bring your specs to any transformer people. Google is your friend...

[MetalHead]

DB - I buy from them all the time. They are a small company but make a solid product.

[smreish]

I order 1 or 2 a month from them without issues....along with the sister company Par Metal.
Jon is a good guy....they just have a very busy small business. No worries.

[oliver2257]

DB,

I had occasion to call them a few times for some information and bought a fuse block. I find them to be very responsive. Never tried e mail.

[dbinokc]

Thanks for the feedback on them. I will go ahead and give them a try, but it sounds like dealing with them by phone may be better.

[dbinokc]

Where does the V=32*sqrt(L) formula for max voltage come from? I see it quoted a lot, but I can find no reference to how it was derived.

[Alan_c]

Gecko drive designer Mariss, see here (http://www.geckodrive.com/ark_page.php?ark_pg_id=2&pid=0&id=14), section 6

[dbinokc]

Can someone point me to some pictures of already wired control boxes.
I am trying to get an idea of how the wire is organized and how the interconnection between components is done.

[Alan_c]

See here (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14890&postcount=182) post 182 and further down from post 203

[dbinokc]

Thanks Alan,
That is a great looking layout.
Is there a standard name for the termination blocks and cable connectors you used?

[dbinokc]

Disregard previous question. I think I see everything I need at automation direct.

[MetalHead]

I have a control box I sell that includes a 20x20x10 cabinet. I also have electrical and 4 and 8 core wire. All ready to ship if needed.

[MetalHead]

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=44099&postcount=1

Kit has adjust a little as has the price. But you can see the basics in that thread.

[oliver2257]

I recommend trying Mike for parts. Automation Direct has all the items, I find them a very good supplier with good quality and they come in large quantities, way more that we would normally use. For wire, many suppliers often have substantial cutting charge. Firstly, getting the parts from Mike gave me, a very novice with Mechmate wiring, some security and guidance about where to go and what I would need. As I went along, things started to come together and looking back, it would have taken me longer, with more mistakes to go it by myself.

[dbinokc]

Is there any reason not to build in the order of control panel, gantry, z-axis and then table.
Because of space constraints, I think it will work better to save building the table frame for last.

[smreish]

It's actually better to do the Control Panel (kitchen project) first. This is the bulk of the table build and most important. The table and all it's metal parts can be built in a long weekend or two. Plus, the electronics are the more expensive part of the project, if you can fund that first, you are more apt to finish your build.

Best,
Sean

[MetalHead]

One of the best things about the MechMate is that you can build it however you want. I agree that if you get the controls built and motors turning you have a huge step in getting the machine build completed.

Another way I like to tell people to look at it is take on the tough parts first so you can get them behind you. If you are scared to do welding, dive in and get it going. If your structural in nature and good at welding and mechanics, tackle the electronics first.

Again the approach is up to you.

[dbinokc]

Does the RSS feed work for site?
I found a post by Gerald, from about 5 years ago, saying it was enabled, but when I try the rss link http://www.mechmate.com/forums/external.php?type=rss
I do not get any posts appearing.

[dbinokc]

After over a year delay, I am finally moving forward with my mechmate build. I will most likely be building 4 foot by 6 foot. I would like to build bigger, but I just do not have the space.

One thing I would like to add is a plotter pen. I am thinking something that would be activated by a solenoid to drop the pen down. Has anyone done something like this yet?

My main use will be for cutting/drilling sheet metal that will be bent in a brake. It would be nice to have all sight lines and any notes already printed on the piece when it comes off machine.

[dbinokc]

I have ordered in a bunch of parts from Mike and other places to start work on the control panel.

One thing that seems to be lacking is some kind of a power bus bar with the contactor as its input and splitting out to everything that needs 120V.
Is everyone just cramming all the wire ends into the contactor or is there something else being done?

I have looked several examples of control panel pictures, but it is hard to follow where all the wires are really going.

[MetalHead]

I suggest you look at the bus connectors that are in the Controll Box and I can get you more of them if needed. But what all are you powering?

[MetalHead]

These do not look like much, but are rated at 20amps / 600volts

[dbinokc]

I remember seeing those in the box Mike. I was not sure if that was what they were for. I will take a closer look at them this evening.

I will be pretty much following the 120V schematic in the plans. It looks like I need 120V going to
1. Torroid transformer.
2. 5V DIN power supply(I bought that)
3. Power to the router head
4. Power for the EStop loop
5. PMDX 126.
6. Possible external 120V outlets for computer and dust removal.

[MetalHead]

You can use the stuff in the box however you like

Or I can get you more :)

[dbinokc]

It looks like only a single 5 position bridge was included. Is that what is normally supplied?

[MetalHead]

Their were two in the kit actually.

[dbinokc]

Picked up my steel this week. I will probably need to pick up a few odds and ends, but I wanted to get all the big stuff I would need my trailer for.

Spent today pressure washing the steel. I am used to the usual mill scale, but I think this place used old motor oil for a cutting fluid. It was the filthiest steel I had ever laid hands on. All clean now though. Blew it all off with compressed air to minimize any rusting.

Working through final details on my CAD drawings. It will probably be another week or two before I actually start cutting metal.

[dbinokc]

What is used to mount the electronics boards inside of the control box. I have standoffs on order, but how do I mount the standoffs to the back panel.

Do I use captive nuts? I do not want to use plain nuts since if I ever needed to remove something, I would have to pull the entire back panel.

[Mrayhursh]

Hi I use to live in Oklahoma City, and Ponca.
Does your electrical box have a removable metal panel. Drill and tab that panel as needed. Nuts work but I wouldn't want to remove the panel just to fix one item. The box is usually mounted on the wall and there is very little vibration unless you have another Oklahoma twister coming through. Best of luck.

[dbinokc]

Yes, the panel is removable. It is the one that Metalhead sells.

However I am not sure if the thickness is enough for me to want to trust tapping it. Especially that heavy power supply.

[dbinokc]

A progress update. All the steel for the sides is now cut and ready to weld.
I thought I would get to do it this weekend, but it rained on Saturday.
I have all the parts for the gantry laid out as well as the electronics.
I drilled holes in the control panel for the heat sink and will do the cutout next weekend.

[Mrayhursh]

Yep I bought the same box from Mike. It is fine. I used various size screws and had no issue. You can do a search on mrayhursh and you will see mine.
I am going to go back and add a couple of items just for the heck of it. Keep in touch and if you have any issues please be sure to ask.

[dbinokc]

I am almost done with welding the table sides.

Attached is a pic of one of the sides. The welds aren't pretty, but they should hold and the table is straight.

I still have a little more welding to do to attach supports for casters. After that on to painting.

Another pic attached of a handy tool for moving heavy pieces around. If you have a tractor with a front end loader, a set of light duty forks are worth their weight in gold.

[Mrayhursh]

Boy, I want to move out to the rural area here in Florida so I can get a Big Yellow Toy. I would probably start digging a big hole an cause a sink hole. Looks like your table is coming along. Don't worry about pretty welds a grinder makes them all shine.

[dbinokc]

Got the sides painted today. The weathers been holding out pretty well, but I want to get all the big outside stuff done before that changes.

Hope I got the color right!

[Mrayhursh]

I see that you have created another Big Blue Beast. It can feed on the blue grass you created. It is going good. Are you going to get it inside before the weather changes?

[dbinokc]

The sides will be indoors tomorrow. The big trick will be moving it without scratching up the new paint job.

[dbinokc]

Got the cross rails cut, drilled and painted. Not enough time to stand the table up for the first time.

One other problem I am seeing. Even though I have made the table a little smaller at 4 foot by 6 foot capacity, I have still going to have problems fitting it into my shop. I have a second shop building with plenty of space, but no electrical. I am going to have to decide what to move into the unpowered building before I can really stand up the table.

[dbinokc]

Got the table stood up today. Next is to get the cross bracing fitted so the table will not rock from side to side. Not going to happen this weekend though. Too cold and icy to drag out the tools to cut metal.

[darren salyer]

Looking Good.
I feel your pain, 19 degrees here this AM.....
Not worth heating the shop to tinker.

[Mrayhursh]

When I moved from Great Falls to Oklahoma City the only snow I saw floated down and melted on the hot asphalt. I couldn't believe how hot it was. I celebrated when the temp dropped below 100.

[domino11]

You guys should come up to Canada. Was 11 degrees here and I worked in the shop all day. Had the woodstove going, but that is a mild winter day up here! :)

[Tom Ayres]

It doesn't look cold in there...too cold that is...:)

[KenC]

Lucky you.
I can't even get below 20C with the air conditioner going full blast here...

[dbinokc]

Finished constructing the cross supports to keep the table from racking from side to side. Took way longer than I thought it would. With the long holiday weekend I thought I was going to get into cutting the rails.

Next weekend is predicted to be much colder again. So it will probably be a couple of weeks before I can get into rail grinding and cutting. Anything involving grinders is done outside. I have machine tools that would not appreciate all the grit being thrown around.

I should have the last of my miscellaneous bits and pieces to do the kitchen table test of the electronics though.

Also got my bearings ordered from Superior Bearing.

Mike, are you still selling cable?

[dbinokc]

I have a DW402 grinder, but it does not quite fit the skate.
There are a couple of little protruding extrusions that are keeping me from being able to mount the grinder properly. I do not want to hack up my grinder to make this fit.

I have seen references to the DW818 being used, but apparently that model number is no longer sold. What other current model number grinders will fit the skate without a lot of modification.

[Mrayhursh]

here is what I found: Ryobi grinder AG403 4 1/2 inch grinder ($29.99) is a perfect fit for the rail cutter/grinder. Someone else also replied to the post and said the Harbor Freight 9.99 grinder also fit. I am sure there are others. I am sure the makers of that model Ryobi also change the color and sell it to other companies.

[Tom Ayres]

I have a Makita (not sure the exact model) but the modification to the plate was minimal. the hardest part for me was finding the 4mm screws/bolts long enough to work, ended up getting them from Fastenal. Don't be afraid to modify the skate, if you mess up just weld the holes back, grind the welds smooth and do it again, a lot cheaper than going out and buying another grinder.

[lonestaral]

I had to modify my skate.
Like Tom said it is better than buying a new grinder, unless you are a toolaholic.

[dbinokc]

Got the cross supports attached as well as the casters. The table is rock solid now.

I have usually just bought the cheap casters from HF, but decided to go with a little higher quality for the table this time. When up on the casters, the table glides around with almost no effort.

I do not expect to move the table too often, but in the tight space of my shop I know I will have to move it.

I bought a Ryobi AG403 as recommended above. The AG403 is almost a perfect fit. I did have to grind a little bit from some corners on the 45 degree plate to clear a couple of screws. When I get the longer 4mm screws, they will line perfectly. As long as the grinder lasts through the rail grinding process, I will consider it $30 well spent.

Also spent a bunch of money ordering items from Mike, McMaster Carr and ebay. I am going to go with the 2.2KW spindle sold by
qiandingzhensatisfaction. He seems to be pretty well referenced on cnczone.

I have 9 days off over the Christmas break. I want to have everything I need together by then. I am not sure if I will have everything running at the end of that time, but I am sure going to try. I want to get back to building my airplane.

Weather is supposed to be a little warmer next weekend, so hopefully I will get my rails cut down and beveled.

[racedirector]

......over the Christmas break. I want to have everything I need together by then..

I am trying for the same thing, get everything in place before everyones (I use) closes for 2 weeks.

Good luck with your build, I know I am having fun with mine! :)

[dbinokc]

I got the ground wire I ordered. It is 4 gauge, as recommended in Gerald's wiring post, but it is seems very stiff in comparison to the 4 conductor 14 gauge wire I ordered for the spindle.


Specifically I ordered McMaster Carr part number 7125K694.

I am just wondering if I ordered the wrong kind of wire to use in the cable carrier.

[dbinokc]

I decided to order 4 gauge welding cable, which should be much more flexible.

[KenC]

DB, changing to welding cable is an excellent call. Stiff cables are torturous to work with.

[dbinokc]

Cut down my first rail today. At first Tried to see how far I could get without cutting down the 2.5" side. I was able to get about 1mm, but had to stop.
I took my plasma cutter and lopped off about 1/2" inch. I was a little concerned after the cut because the angle iron bowed from the heat stress. However after cutting down the rail, the stresses from the heat affected region were cut away and the rail laid flat again.
This first rail took about 4 hours. Of course a lot of that was figuring things out. I am sure the remaining will go a little quicker.

Attached also are pics of how I set the spacing for the cutter. I cut some scrap 2x4 down to form a spacer block and bolted that onto the grinder top plate.

The I-Beam worked real nice for a good flat surface to work from. If you ever get a chance to get some big I-Beams cheap, get them.

[dbinokc]

Remaining three rails cut down today. Overall I would say about 5-6 hours was spent cutting all 4 rails down. 8 cutting discs were used. The were the DeWalt branded disks.
Next step is to get the rails beveled.

[dbinokc]

I would like my support board to fully cover the cross rails. I only have access to 4x8 sheets of MDF. Since the center section is 61 inches, I would need to cut the boards down. The question is how do I join them in the middle?

Would I use a biscuit joiner?. Pocket screws maybe? I am going to use elevator bolts as the hold down. Should I try to catch the seam in the middle of a hole and hold the seam down that way?

[lonestaral]

You could cut a strip of mdf or ply 4" wide.
Glue and air nail it on the underside of your base board overlapping the joint.
Simple but effective.

[darren salyer]

That would only work if the seam ran parallel to, and in between the cross bearers.
The table will hold a lot of sawdust without the open spaces on the sides.

[pblackburn]

With adequate dust collection, dust to the channels is not a problem. I have my spoilboard extended the whole way to the channels. Maybe a touch at the end of a run of a full sheet of plywood but nothing a quick run of the shop-vac will not get rid of. I did this because it helped 100 fold with dust collection versus before the dust would fall to the floor and not go where it should. In the collection bin.

[KenC]

Sounds like a good idea. Maybe I should cover the gaps too... with vacuum hold down, I rarely use the clamps nowadays.

[pblackburn]

DB,

I would just screw the two pieces down close to their respective edge. I used all brass flat head screws and did not epoxy them in. I countersunk so the head of the brass screw as more than half the depth of the spoilboard. If you want a air tight seal, just use a sealant. I would not go to the added time of a joining method since this will be surfaced from time to time and is a consumable part.

About dust collection

If you use a dust shoe and it even hangs over the edge of the spoilboard just 1/2"(12.7mm), you have just eliminated your dust collecting capability.

Another thing is if any of the chips that do escape, they are on the table, this is good because 1) it is easier to clean 2) you will not let it pile up like you would if it was under the table (most of us use the bottom for storage anyway) 3) it will force you to clean it, reducing dust stir-up and fire hazards.

If your shoe is not collecting all of the chips, your shoe is not properly designed and should be re-made to work with the chip/dust extraction you have.

[dbinokc]

I really had to wonder with the ice storm we just had, if I would have even have electricity over the Christmas break. Probably got about 3/4 inch of ice.

Since I can't resume beveling the rails for another day or two, I have started on the control panel.

One thing I have not decided yet is if I want to run the BOB and the power supply on 120 or 220. I have 220 coming into the panel. So for consistency I am thinking just run 220 for those. Is there any reason why I would not want to do it that way?

The control panel itself will be mounted at the end of the table with VFD mounted mid table to keep some distance between the two. It will also minimize the distance from the VFD to spindle, which I hope will minimize noise problems. The only thing I want coming from the table is the power connection and ethernet cable from the EZ stepper.

Hopefully in a day or two I will have my first stepper motor turning for testing. By that time, the ice should be melted enough to start back up on the rails.

[pblackburn]

The voltage hookup is your choice, it will not hurt it either way.

Most quality VFDs the noise comes from the wires not the unit because they are shielded really well inside. But it would not hurt to place it there. Make sure the Ethernet cable is shielded.

[Mrayhursh]

Pete I notice that the VFD on my bandsaw hummms when I turn it on. Is there something I can do to reduce the noise.

[pblackburn]

If you are running it at a low freq it may. Does it change tone as the blade speed is changed.

[Mrayhursh]

no I do not believe so. My hearing isn't the best.

[Tom Ayres]

what, what did he say?

[lonestaral]

Must have been standing too close to his machine.

[pblackburn]

Reference here (http://www.control.com/thread/1309859725)

Other than disconnecting power and checking to make sure all the connections are tight. You could check the VFD settings but some manufacturers lock them out. If so, call the manufacturer and tell them the problem so they will give you the code and most likely already know the parameter that needs to be adjusted. I am assuming you mean it is humming when the bandsaw motor is running and not when you just have power on to the unit. Some VFDs will make a low hum when no frequency is being called for.

[Mrayhursh]

hmmmm, I said I am hearing impaired. I have lost nearly 80% of my hearing due to virus when I was a child. I continually hear ringing that covers up and distorts what I hear. My hearing aids are no longer of much help.

[dbinokc]

Finally some sunshine. It alsmost sounds like a rain storm outside with all the ice melting from the trees. I was finally able to chip the ice off the ibeam I have been using for rail grinding.

During that time I have finally started working on the control panel. Since the VFD requiers 220V, I decided to run everything from 220V instead of doing 115V for the PS and BOB. No problems there. Just remember to switch to BOB to 230V and wire up the transformer for 220V.

There is a 5V power supply sitting on the rail. I thought I was going to need it, but it turned out I did not. The BOB can supply 5V to the smoothstepper.

I hooked up my ethernet smoothstepper to the BOB and was able to successfully connect to it using Mach3. No stepper motor tests yet. I did not have the crimp connects I wanted for hooking the stepper to the cable.

A hole was cut in the panel to allow the heatsink to be mounted outside. I did not see the point of having a nice big heatsink locked up inside the panel where all it would do is contribute to the heat load inside the panel. Hopefully this will also allow me to not have to attach a fan to the panel

Everything will get pulled apart one last time for some more hole drilling and painting. However the pics show pretty much what I will have when it is done.

I also had not posted a pic of the end rails and casters in place. That is below as well.

[Tom Ayres]

Man you're putting me to shame here, I can't even get from the front door of the house to the shop door without the wife having me do something. Your build is coming along beautifully! Merry Christmas!:D

[Robert M]

Nicely done DB….Like this main kill switch !
Where did this one come from ??
Merry one to you too @_@
Robert ;)

[darren salyer]

I have a similar heatsink mounted in the same manner, and have never had an overheat issue, even when the shop hovers in the upper 90s F.
Everything is looking really good.

[dbinokc]

Thanks for the comments all.

Robert,
The switches were purchased from Metalhead.

Darren,
Your thread is one that I have looked at frequently for both technical information and inspiration. I am sure your pics of the heatsink mounted outside the cabinet influenced my decision to do the same. In fact your pic of the proximity switch setup reminded me that I need to get those ordered.

[pblackburn]

The Geckos need a heat sink if you are using 3A or over. I have one from PDMX that supports 4 drives and another from an old welder SCR for the 4th axis. Automation Direct is another of many suppliers for through the door disconnects.

[dbinokc]

Beveled my first rail. I used the 36 grit sanding disk over a rigid disk and it cut just fine. Hardly any wear on the 36 grit disk.

One other thing I did was to use a big Magnum permanent ink marker to mark the metal so I could better idea of my progress and take measurements as I made the cut.

About 2 or 3 hours was spent setting up the skate and making sure I was happy with how it fit. It probably took about 1.5 hours to bevel the rail. Hopefully I can knock out the other three tomorrow.

[dbinokc]

Last three rails beveled today. Took about 1.5 hours each. It took two 36 grit sanding disks. However in hindsight I think it would have been better to have just used a fresh disk for each rail. I am happy with how the rails turned out as is. I do not plan to polish them down with finer grits.

Tomorrow I will go into town to get mdf and plywood for the support and spoil boards. I plan on going 3/4 inch plywood for the support board. I do not trust MDF's long term durability and stability in humid Oklahoma. However I will use MDF for the spoil board since it is cheaper and will be milled down from time to time anyway.

[Mrayhursh]

DB
I see you have 120 VAC running into the PMDX-126. On the side where the Smooth stepper is mounted you have wires running from the power supply to the PMDX-126. Is this a 48vdc? What is it connected to?

[dbinokc]

DB
I see you have 120 VAC running into the PMDX-126. On the side where the Smooth stepper is mounted you have wires running from the power supply to the PMDX-126. Is this a 48vdc? What is it connected to?

Actually the BOB(PMDX-126) is running from 230V. You can select between 115/230 on the board. The power supply, an Antek PS-5N42, was also wired to use 230V.

The yellow and green wires running from the power supply only go to motherboard. I suppose the picture does make it look like it is going into the 126 though.

This was just a rough setup of the control panel. I have to pull everything out one more time to paint, drill some more holes and neaten up the wiring.

[pblackburn]

As long as it is not getting wet, MDF should serve the purpose. Plywood has an amazing ability to warp in humidity also plus the laminated plys can separate. So I think it is a catch 22.

[KenC]

Marine ply don't warp as much but comes with a biggest price tag.
BTW, MDF does work... As long as you do your sealing properly. If you need confirmation, I can be one.

[darren salyer]

I've had an MDF support board now for 2 years in humid St. Louis, Mo.
I rolled on two coats of Minwax polyurethane on all 6 surfaces, before installing and it looks as good as the day it was installed.

[smreish]

MDF in florida....and doing just fine.

[Zouave]

Darren, do you have a Z-zero plate that you use to keep from cutting into the top surface, or do you just periodically roll on a new coat of Poly?
I've had no problems with my MDF, but then again, I'm just running a surface program periodically.

[darren salyer]

I have a spoilboard above my support board. The spoilboard has a vacuum grid machined into the underside.

[Robert M]

You guys in some humid area, you should consider EXTIRA (http://www.extira.com/).
An MDF alike made for outdoor usage :p
Since I've moved ( 3ys ago) I'm using this extria as in summer time I get easily 80%++ humidity on a regular basis !:eek:
It's a little more money then regular MDF.....but cheaper than coating one :p

Hope this helps !
Later ;)

[dbinokc]

Support board is added. Pic attached. I used elevator bolts for the attachment. I purposely did not say support board attached, because I am waiting for some bevel washers to come in, so the nuts will sit a little more nicely on the C-channel.

I did stick with the plywood for the support board. I guess we will see how well it works. If I could say there is a downside to the plywood at this point, is that it is more prone to tearing.

Another thing in 20/20 hindsight is that it probably would not have hurt to allow extra 1/2 to 1 inch overhang from the ends . The edges of the elevator bolts are a little closer to the edge than I would like and there was problems with tearout being so close to the edge.

Because of the C-channel, it was not possible to fit a drill to drill the hole. Instead, I used a short piece of 3/8 rod with the end well coated in permanent marker ink. I put this in the hole and pressed it against the board. This left a mark on the board that I could use to drill out the board when flipped over.
To countersink the heads of the elevator bolts I used a forstener bit attached to a drill guide. A sacraficial board was also attached to the drill guide to contain the forstener bit since a hole had already been drilled by that time. It did not come out as pretty as I would have liked, but it did the job. Of course, most of those bolts will be covered with MDF.

Next up is to cut the x-rails to length and verify my measurements so I can cut the tubing for the Y axis. Tomorrow is the last nice weather day I will have and I would like to get the Y axis welded up and painted.

[darren salyer]

Looking good DB!!
You'll be making dust in no time....

[KenC]

The elevator bolts is a nice touch :)

[dbinokc]

While checking my X-rails straightness with a string, I am seeing about a .5mm to 1mm bow in one rail and a 1.5mm to 2mm bow in the other rail.

The bow is in the direction of the long side.

How should I deal with this? Should I just try to straighten it when I bolt it down or do I need to do some heat straightening? I do not have a MIG welder, but I do have arc, TIG and aceylene.

[pblackburn]

No rails are perfect. When you say bow, do you mean up and down or in and out. If it is in to out, you can slot the rail holes you will be able to set them when you use your pre-cut spacing bar and lock down the rails. Up and down, first make sure you are using either piano wire or a really good mason cord and it needs stretched very taunt (gravity is a powerful thing). Shim with any good shim stock, many use aluminum cans.

[dbinokc]

There is some bowing up/down as well, but that can be handled with shims as you say.

The bowing I am concerned about is in/out. Specifically the peak of the bow is on the is in the direction of the long side of the rail.

If those deflections are considered small enough to handle with the spacing bar and slots, then I will handle it that way.

[pblackburn]

Mine had a bow of 3" end to end. It pulls into place with a little muscle. I had to slot some of my holes to align. Some of it was stubborn and I had to use C-clamps to pull it to position.

[KenC]

Your rail is perfect, a perfect rail is one which bow, curve & twist before you shim & line it. I use plenty F-clamps to persuade my rails to conform with my fishing line.

[Tom Ayres]

DB, not to change the subject, I lived in Oklahoma for 13 years in various places, Yukon, OKC and Tulsa, college in Stillwater. Where in Oklahoma do you live?

[dbinokc]

Tom,
I live on the far southeast side of OKC. Except for my time in Air Force, I lived in OKC area since 1980.

[Tom Ayres]

Around Tinker I guess, or Midwest City? I lived in SE for a brief period too.

[dbinokc]

Actually about halfway between Tinker and Shawnee.

[dbinokc]

X-Rails are attached. Despite trying to do very careful layout on the beams, I am still seeing a +-1/16 inch variation on the spacing. Most of that contributed by the bowing of the rails, but some also from just having to use a hand drill which managed to wander some.

Have to go back to the real world tomorrow, but I have Jan 1 off. So I will mill some elongation to the holes to get some adjustability. If I can not get the bow out with bolt pressure, I think spot heating in a few spots will fix it. I have not done heat straightening before, so I will save that option for a last resort.

I am looking at the gantry more closely as I get to the point of assembling it. I am thinking I will start with welding up the Z-car first. That way I can attach the roller bearings to get an exact measurement of the distance between them. For that I can calculate where to drill the holes in the cross tubes, Y-rails and nut plates. I have a mill with a DRO. So getting with a thousandth of an inch is pretty easy.

[KenC]

+/-1/16 isn't bad. You can drill a bigger hole instead of milling slots. Save a lot of time & still worked perfectly. Just make sure the hole is smaller then your washer :)

[Tom Ayres]

My rails didn't have much bow but I had to elongate my holes 3mm because I didn't center the holes on my beams, I used a 1/8" pencil die grinder and carbide bit, took 30 minutes for one rail.

[dbinokc]

I went to work yesterday and found that just about everyone else in the office had decided to take Monday and Tuesday off. I was just about the only one at work. I went ahead worked Monday, but decided to just take today off as well. More build time!

I went ahead and slotted the holes in my x-rails. To each bolt hole I added 1mm along the length of the rail and 3mm across the rail. This gave me enough play adjust the rail.

To align the rails I set one rail in place and tightened the two center bolts. with my string guide attached, I pulled each end into alignment and bolted down.

I then took the second rail, loosely attached it with the two center bolts, used the gauge bar to set the spacing and tightened the two center bolts. I then used the gauge board to set the two ends. The string was used to verify that everything was straight.

The rails were then removed and painted. I still need to drill holes for the proximity, stop block and of course attach the racks.


Tomorrow gantry fabrication starts.

[Tom Ayres]

Cool! Progress!

[KenC]

DB, I admire your discipline. I didn't have the patient to leave the gantry fabrcation until the rails are made.

[dbinokc]

I started prepping the gantry and y-car for welding today. I looked over the gantry plans and forum posts to get the exact location of the welds and the order. I took my grinder and cleaned all the areas where I will be welding. Next I wrote, in magic marker, the number order of the welds and an indication of the length.

Of course I also noticed that that I need to add some countersunk holes for the stepper hold down. I did not have have the correct type of screws. So those are on order. I decided to wait on the countersinking until I had the countersunk screws in. I want to verify the depth I need to cut before actually doing it.

On the same order from McMaster Carr I ordered the flat stock for the Z axis. I also realized that I will need to make a trip to the steelyard to get some 1"x2" rectangular tubing for attaching the plate.

[IMMark]

I think you want to countersink those holes prior to welding?
I will leave it to the pros to verify.
Best of luck!
Mark

[dbinokc]

You are correct about that. I am holding off until I get the screws to verify how deep I want to counter sink.

[dbinokc]

When welding the tower carrier plates to the Y-car, I see two options.

1. Weld the plates to the Y- car, leaving a gap between the plates and the spider.

2. Bolt the spider to the carrier plates and pull in the sides of the Y-Car to meet the carrier plates and weld. The advantage of this method is I can get a tight fit between the spider and the carrier plates.

The gap is about 4mm in both cases.

My preference is option 2. I have not seen posts of anyone doing option 2, so I want to be sure that method would be okay.

[Mrayhursh]

Thanks DB. Good info. This reminds me of an incident at work. My boss (head of engineering for a Fortune 500 company) was not to happy with my other boss head of machining and production. We were working on a new prototype spray foam system. The draft man drew up a spectacular set of plans for the structural base and outer metal housings. We received the parts and nothing fit. The two of them went at it for a couple of minutes and the machine shop boss said ok I will go talk to purchasing and have them order the $200K machine (1975 Dollars) to make the parts that he wanted. My other boss got a practical lesson in sheet metal. You don't specify sheet metal tolerances of .0001 you specify them in fractions and drill some holes during assembly to insure that they do meet. I know that methods have improved since then but sheet metal work is a little sloppy.

[pblackburn]

I did neither and only carefully measured and tacked, and tacked and tacked and welded all in the same relative direction to reduce warping so the pull of the steel was consistent and not fighting each other. The spider was a tight fit with only one bolt up less than 0.030" clearance gap.

One can argue engineering foul ups all day long when I can attest from many years of industrial maintenance that it is the engineer who is at fault not the product design. The design was just as they made it.....incorrect. Only something theoretically and practically designed with input from knowledgeable sources will render a good product. I have also worked with some great engineers that I have marveled at their ability to make what seems impossible....possible.

Point being, there is more than one way to skin it and fry it; yet the outcome is just as good. The outcome is the result of the time in preparation, thought and love put into the thing you are working on.

[lonestaral]

The only problem with option 2 is that if you get a tight fit it leaves no room for shimming.
If you can ensure that everything will be perfectly square after welding then do it.
I would be cautious and do option 1.

[KenC]

Option 1. Mr. Murphy is well & alive.

[MetalHead]

Look through the forum. Their are a lot of threads that cover welding up the y car. Threaded rod is what I recall being used to set the width as desired. If you use the spider and do not I want it to tight, add a few thin shims to setup a gap so the spider can be removed if needed easily. But 4 pieces of threaded rod and some nuts would be best ..... And a bunch of clamps.

If you look on the main page and go to MechMates already cutting, then scroll down the pages looking at the right side, you will see how many posts are in the threads. Start with the ones with more posts as they tend to have more details about their builds.

You will be amazed at what is here if you come at the forum from different angles.

Ways to search
1. From Main page by topic.
2. By number of posts in thread (as I mentioned above)
3. By member. (Click on a member and view statistics)
4. Of course regular search by title or post

I am sure there are more :)

[darren salyer]

Lets get this build wrapped up. :)
Ever since you teased us with a hint of using your MM to assist with an airplane build, all my free time is spent researching homebuilt planes.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm intrigued and will want to see lots of pics...

[dbinokc]

LOL! Believe me I want to get this wrapped up too so I can resume my airplane work.

I made a little progress this weekend with cutting my y-rails and gantry tubes to length. But then I mis-drilled the nut plate. I could have used it, but the bolt hole locations would not have been symmetric. Since I need to go to the steel yard to get a few more items, I decided to hold off. Also, the counter sink I had was not 90 degrees and they do not carry them at the box stores or HF.

I know, excuses, excuses. :)

Good news is it looks like good weather this weekend, so I hopefully I can get the gantry and Y-car welded up.


If you look real close at the picture below you can see my horizontal stabilizer peeking out on the shelf above where all the cans are located.
On the shelf above that(not visible) is a botched stabilizer because I got stupid with my riveter. That was 4 months worth of work lost :(. It is not all fun and games when trying to build an airplane. As a scratchbuilder, I have made lots of scrap.

Just to give you something more positive to think about, the following link is what I will be using for my engine, http://www.flycorvair.com/

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14523&stc=1&d=1387916144

A few other things I could add about the picture above, in the container appearing just to the right of the door, contains the various plywood templates I have made so far. Not really visible on the shelf with all the cans and at the far right, is the beginnings of the center spar section.

[Mrayhursh]

if you are interested in building a homebuilt aircraft check out Zenith CH750. It is a STOL and the company is in Mexico Missouri. I have a tail section built for the CH750. You are welcome to it.

[dbinokc]

The y-car is welded up and the holes drilled in the gantry crosstubes, rail and nut plate. I had to take a few minutes to do a test fit of the y-car to the rails. It looks like the car came out flat and rolls nice. On to welding up the gantry.

[dbinokc]

Gantry welded and rolling. On first look, it appears to be square. All wheels resting on the rails nicely and rolls smooth.
Next weekend I will get it, the y-car and y-rails painted.

[Tom Ayres]

Looking Good! Looks like you're at the same stage as me. I'm all painted, y car done and z completed except assembly and currently wiring the control box (nearly done).

[dbinokc]

Painted the gantry and y-car this weekend. Also made the stop blocks for the rails. I forgot to order the stops for the gantry and y-car, so I am on hold for that. Also ordered the proximity switches, a 24V DIN power supply and relays.

I weighed my spindle and mounting block.
Weights were as follows(in pounds)
spindle mounting block 3
spindle 11

I have ordered the gas spring McMaster part number 9416K2 with a 20 pound force.

[Zouave]

Don't forget to add the weight of the Z-slide and stiffener, plus any dust collection accessories you might mount to it... 20lbs sounds okay, I think I went slightly higher for mine, but I have a PC 7518, not a spindle. Not sure how the weight compares.

[dbinokc]

I thought about the weight, but I think I am safe with 20. If not, then getting the next size up spring is only about $20 plus shipping.

[darren salyer]

I thought erring on the heavier side (30#) was a good idea, then I had to reorder a lighter spring. I believe your plan of attack is right on.

[dbinokc]

Got the stops welded to the x-rails and the holes for the proximity sensors drilled as well. Cut the extra 6 inches needed for my racks on the x-rails as well as the rack for the z axis.
Plan to weld up the extra lengths on the x-rails next weekend. If that goes well I will do my final mounting/alignment of the x-rails, mount the racks and be able leave my y-gantry on the rails.

[dbinokc]

Got the stops welded on for the y-axis as well as the holes milled for the proximity sensor. I would liked to have painted, but it was below freezing and foggy today. Next weekend is supposed to be a bit nicer.

I also cut apart the mounts for the cable chains and did a test layout of the X-axis. Getting the mounting link into the cable chain was an impossible task for me. I finally just filed a small bevel onto one side of the pivot point to get the chain to slip over.

I took a look at the y-axis chain as well. I think I am going to have to weld an extension onto the lower supports. The radius of the chain is too great to have it lay flat and still be able to connect to the gantry tube.

Got a 4 day weekend coming up next weekend. Probably not enough time to get a first cut, but should make lots of progress.

[Tom Ayres]

Looks very good...

[dbinokc]

I know a few builds have centered on a plasma cutter. I would like to do a dedicated plasma cutter, but really do not have the space.

What I was thinking about would be to build a pan that could be filled with with water along with a support grid for the metal to be cut. This would be placed on the table and the head swapped out for a plasma cutter head.

After the cutting is done, the water is drained from the pan and the pan removed from the table. I suppose the cutting could be done with the pan dry, but I think the water cuts down on dust from the cut metal.

It would not be as convenient as a dedicated plasma cutter, but would provide a way to get more uses out of my mechmate.

[Fox]

A lot of 'hobby' cnc people take this approach actually.
Hobby people cause it's just one of these things that works if you do your plasma once every few months or so. If you cut plasma more often you quickly get tired of swapping everything out, hence building a dedicated machine.But that could be the next step after your approach.

Ps. If you are going to do this it might be wise to pay extra good attention to proper grounding and shielding as plasma cutter are notorious for these issues. check some of the plasma build threads.

[dbinokc]

While reviewing my CAD models for the z-axis I spotted an error in the drawing. It is mentioned in some other threads, but I am going to mention it here as well to warn others.

There is an inconsistency in the hole spacing in drawing 10-40-330(slide plate) and 10-40-360(slide tube). It seems to just affect the english measurements.

The spacing in -330 goes as
1.2 1.1 1.2
but in -360 the spacing goes as
1.2,1.2,1.1

The metric spacings seem to be okay. So I suspect it is some kind of rounding problem in the CAD software used to create the drawings.

This problem is mentioned in some other threads, but I am mentioning here as well to maximize the chances that someone else sees this. If someone were just going on the drawings and not CAD'ing ahead of time, this would be easy to miss and be a real bummer after drilling holes in that really expensive piece of gauge stock.

This really should be fixed in the drawings. My piece of gauge stock cost me $86. I would have been really sad if I had not see this problem when I did.

[isladelobos]

I see the same problem, but it is only in the numbers.
My measuremens between center holes is ok in both drawings.

I remember i have sent to the laser cut company the drawings without the countersunk and measurement marks, no problems at all.
But the best way sending this to the laser company is enlarge the plate 100mm (3.9" aprox to your thinks) in both sides for a good carril milling and next cut to the exact measure.

[dbinokc]

On Friday I beveled the edges of the gauge plate. No real surprises there. I took the suggestion mentioned in another build thread of using a workmate workbench to clamp the gauge plate while grinding. That worked very nicely and the operation was uneventful. It took about an hour to complete. The rest of Friday was spent fine tuning my CAD model of the Z-axis to make sure of all the dimensions.

I started cutting metal today. Overall it went pretty well, but I did manage to inadvertently countersink what was supposed to be the dowel pin hole. I really wish I would quit doing stupid stuff like that. I was not planning to use the dowel pin for mounting the spindle, but I wanted it available for future use.

After much thought, I am going to split the big aluminum spindle mount in half. Each half going to roughly each end of the spindle. I think that will provide better support than just using it in one big piece. The CAD model was adjusted for this option. Also that mounting block is too wide. It will hit the bearings. I will cut the mounting ears off and also cut a small lip along the side the clear the bearings.

The plan for tomorrow is to look at getting the bearings and mounts fitted to the spider. Got several items I have been wanting to paint, but it is a little hard to do the with the "winds sweeping down the plain".

[pblackburn]

The mount I used was 1" aluminum and was a 5 piece assembly with location dowels. Two dowels on the slide for the mount back and the rest was bolt together. So the mount can be made however you wish as long as it does the job in the end.

[dbinokc]

The bearings are mounted to the spider and the z-slide moves very nicely.
Still a bit more work to do before I mount it to the y-car.

It took me a little bit to try to figure out how to securely mount the spider for drilling. So a pic of setup I used is included. Two step block extensions clamp the center of the spider and are in turn gripped by the vice. An extra block was inserted into the vice to offset the spider so all four feet rested over the top of the vice.

The plans specify welding the bearing supports, but I wonder if that is necessary. Everything seems to be pretty solid. I hate to warp it with welding.

[IMMark]

I think if you weld the bearing supports, you can then "fine tune" the flatness ...but milling, sanding (whatever) the supports to get it totally flat.
Mark

[dbinokc]

If the spider frame itself is warped, milling the tops of spacers is not really fixing the problem. If the frame is straight and the supports were turned properly, little to no evening of the tops should be required.

[IMMark]

I got the spider frame as level as possible, then put the whole thing on the milling machine to take the last few thousands off the bearing supports. My machine is not finished yet, so I will leave this to the experts...I just followed the suggestions in the Z plate section.
Mark

[dbinokc]

Do we use VHB tape for mounting the z-slide rack or does that need to be screwed down?

More work on the z-slide today. Got the gas spring attached and the stop set for all the way up. I set the bracket for the top of the spring so that it was compressed by about half an inch.

I am taking a closer look at the stepper motor attachment. I can't get out of welding on the spider after all. The big thing to figure out is how to ensure alignment of the attachment bracket so that the stepper is not skewed with respect to the slide motion. I am also going to have to grind a bevel so that it can rest evenly on the spider..

[Tom Ayres]

VHB tape is used, just fasten at the ends as per plans. I'm not understanding the spider issue...:confused:

[dbinokc]

Tom,
I am confused. :) You say "VHB tape is used, just fasten at the ends as per plans.". Is that VHB tape is just used at the ends or use screws. The plans show screws. However the plans show screws for X and Y, but according to Gerald that was just put there for those that did not want to trust the tape.

For the part you are confused about. I am referring to the welding of 10-40-434(Motor Plate Lug) to the spider. What I am concerned about is getting it in line with the slide. The stepper attaches to this plate and in turn drives the rack. If the plate is not oriented properly, then the stepper is out of line and in turn the drive gear is out of line with the rack.

[smreish]

DB,
The z is fastened by screws counter sunk in plate and tapped holes in the rack.
Alignment is critical, but the limited flex in the z-motor plate allows for some adjustment to keep it in plane.

[dbinokc]

Thanks Sean, that is what I needed to confirm. Screws will be used for the rack on the z-axis.

How did you deal with aligning the stepper motor plate for welding?

[Tom Ayres]

Sorry DB, I couldn't answer, I was on my way to Boy Scouts.

[smreish]

Stepper motor plate rests in the little laser cut tab for positioning.
Then - I used 90 degree magnets to hold in place while I tack welded it up.
This does NOT require a bunch of weld, if you do, you risk the tab rolling over and not being in plane.

[dbinokc]

Got the z-axis mounted up today. Just loosely mounted at this point.
Prepped the x-racks for welding on about 6 more inches of length.
Also drilled and tapped the pinion gears for set screws.

Also got some insulating shoulder washers on order for mounting the control panel to the frame. I want to be sure the only ground path is through the ground cable and not through the frame.

In the same picture to the right is a crane I built for moving my 12 foot long pieces of sheet metal around when I am working on the plane. You can see a video of that at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1NmzrdELsc

[dbinokc]

Yesterday, the control panel was mounted to the end of the machine. Also worked on mounting the cable chains.

We had another big blast of cold from the north today. I do not think the little heater in my shop will make a dent in keeping the building warm enough for me. I do not expect to really make much progress today.

[pblackburn]

Nice use of everyday available equipment in making your material handler. Please remember with any lifting equipment that it should be designed with a 7:1 safety factor. Some only use a 3:1. I used to inspect hoist and cranes and had to inspect after accidents that sometimes caused very bad things to operators and bystanders. So please make sure all your i's and t's are accounted for. Most things can be prevented but the most important things you cannot always get back.

Nice video and ingenuity and maybe spring will come soon so you can continue with your build process.

[dbinokc]

Thanks Pete.

By my calculations, with the current counterweight, I could lift up to 500 pounds vertically before tipover. Of course the bigger moment arm is horizontal, which I estimated around 50 pounds applied at the very top could cause tipover.
At most the static loads I am dealing with are around 100 pounds vertical. The sheets are not real heavy, just really big. Dynamically, I am moving real slow anyway. My biggest concern when using the crane is not busting out one of my fluorescent lights when initially lifting sheets out.

[pblackburn]

Nothing is worse than fluorescent lights breaking, they are a mess to clean up.

[Tom Ayres]

Not to mention breathing the dust from them...

[lonestaral]

Looking good.
Keep up the good work.

[dbinokc]

After drilling a few more holes, I finally was able to install the electronics into the control panel today. The trays for the cable chain were welded, painted and installed. I also installed some cable duct to hold cable running from the control panel to the chain and similarly for the gantry.

I also purchased a panel for holding the VFD. That was painted, but I will wait until next weekend to mount it. I am still trying to decide on how best to safety the spindle while doing drill bit changes. While the chances of the spindle starting up are small, the consequences of a spin up while changing bits is not.

While I am deciding on that issue, I am now in a position I can start pulling cable and hooking up steppers. I may not even wait until next weekend to do that. I have been waiting a while to see the beast move on its own power.

[pblackburn]

See this post (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=65935&postcount=116) about vfd spindle safety option

[dbinokc]

I am using the Huanyuag VFD. After looking through the docs, there is a way to configure some of the inputs for emergency stop and reset. I would still much prefer a mechanical break in the connector as opposed to a soft break.
What kind of button are you using for the VFD stop?

[pblackburn]

Using a safety circuit as it is designed by the manufacturer like how the Hitachi VFD is safe. The process they even recommend is a redundant safety protocol by using a safety relay the requires the input to be reset before it will activate. No different than light curtains or light barriers used to protect people from being smashed by machines. By use of a maintained switch, you have to reset the circuit for it to activate.

First thing is you do not what to break the load lines at all unless it is set up with a MOL (motor overload) function. The bus usually required the load to be connected even if the VFD is a rest. If it has a MOL then you can break the lines and trigger it at the same time. You could also break the incoming power (not recommended by most manufacturers) but only if the vfd is not running. Just leave enough time between power up and tool changes for the VFD to come back on. Estop by killing all power even while running is considered the exception because it is the safety of the operator that is the most important, not the machine.

All this being said. Mach would really have to malfunction for it to run up in the middle of tool change. However if there is more than just you there, it is a good idea to plan on someone else hitting the start button or freak accidents like a can falling over and depressing the start button.

I am all for extra safety but I leave the choice up to you.

[Tom Ayres]

DB so far this what I've come up with for the Huanyuag VFD, set VFD code pd046 to 13 (emergency), connect (i think) rst to whatever output on bob (I'm trying to figure out too other things at this time but I think this a starting point) Maybe this will get you thinking in that direction. As usual the chinese manuals leave a lot to be desired. Good luck

[dbinokc]

Just checked my hard copy manual and what I have matches yours for the stop information. 13 is stop and 14 is reset. I was looking at a pdf earlier that apparently is not current.

I think this corresponds to what Pete linked to for the Hitachi in his previous post.

[Tom Ayres]

Makes you wonder if they write the manuals off the top of their heads. Now that's got me a little bothered. Although Pete is absolutely right, good advise for sure.

[dbinokc]

Got the VFD mounted today. Attached is a pic of the current state.
Still procrastinating on welding the racks and attaching them. I will probably wait until the very last on those. I will continue pulling cable, start testing steppers, hooking up proxy sensors etc.

[dbinokc]

I am curious as to what peoples thoughts are regarding a joypad versus a pendant for controlling the Mechmate. CNC pendants seem to be more traditional, but it seems a joypad would be more convenient to use.

[racedirector]

Alot seem to use wireless Xbox controllers, there are drivers available on the Mach site. I know I will be using one when the time comes.

[Fox]

I rely on a wired joypad. Wired.. because an emergency stop needs to be wired imo... and wireless can act up, and if it does can ruin your job/machine/body...
Great program to use is joytokey, you can hook up any key of your keyboard.

[pblackburn]

The visual feedback on a pendant is nice though. Then again you can buy a lot of joysticks for a pendant like that.

[dbinokc]

Pete,
I did not realize that. At least the cheap ones on ebay, did not seem to show a display.

[dbinokc]

Continued pulling cable this weekend. The X1,X2 and Y steppers are wired and cables pulled to the cabinet. Also The X1,Y1 estops and proximity switches are wired in. I need to pull and attach cables for the X2 proxy and the Z-stepper. After those are pulled I can start wiring things up in the control panel. I hope I do not need to pull anymore cable. Things are getting a little cramped in the e-chain.

I also had to make some brackets to hold the connectors for the steppers. The bracket can be seen attached near the stepper below. In the center of the picture is a jig I threw together to hold the plug side of the connector so I can solder it. It is an extra cable gland that fortunately fits and a wooden dowel on the other end holds a neodymium magnet.

I also ordered a cnc pendant off of ebay. After watching a few youtube videos of those in use, I decided that a pendant would give me more control than a joypad.

[darren salyer]

You are close!!
Looking great!!

[Tom Ayres]

Yeah, Looking real good!:D

[dbinokc]

I have continued with wiring today. I worked on getting the proxy switches and switches terminated at the terminal blocks.

I have noticed that one of the stepper motor cables is trying to pull itself out. As I move the gantry back and forth, the X1 stepper cable(the one of the e-chain side) starts working itself out. The other cables seem to be stable. X1 was the first cable I ran, so it sits at the bottom of the cable run.

Has anyone else run into this problem? Should I try using something like talcum powder to lubricate the cables inside the chain so they slip past each other a little better?

[KenC]

Cable tie the cable to the cable chain

[dbinokc]

Is tying the cable to the cable chain a standard procedure?

[KenC]

It solved my problem :)

[ger21]

On the industrial machines I've used, the cables are tied where they enter and exit the chain, not within the chain itself. Typically the end pieces of the chain have provisions for tying the cable to them.

[pblackburn]

I normally tie them on one end only

[dbinokc]

Did more wiring today. Ran the wiring for the 120V E-stop circuit. I am waiting on hooking it in until I get some DIN rail mountable fuseholders.

I could not wait any longer though and decided to see a stepper move for the first time. Video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Q_hzK4hm4

The only thing that caused me problems was getting the step pin and the direction pin reversed in the mach3 configuration. I really need to get those X-Rails welded!

[Tom Ayres]

Just couldn't wait could ya?:)

[dbinokc]

Couldn't wait on the remaining three steppers either. :) Hooked those up last night. Got to see the Z-axis move up and down for the first time. I also hooked up the pendant. That is going to be nice to have. Might have a go at attaching the Y-rack tonight so I can see Y move.

[darren salyer]

Pretty cool feeling, huh?
Bites of the elephant....congrats!!

[KenC]

Assemble the quartet!

Getting there!

[darren salyer]

That's funny, Ken...:)

[Tom Ayres]

My son is on his way with his violin...be there soon ;)

[dbinokc]

Got the Y-Axis powered up today. You can see a short video of it and also the pendant at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8-7W_UE8A4

I think that is all I will really be able to do in the evenings this week. This weekend I will finish wiring in the e-stops, proxy and weld up the x-racks. Hopefuly I will have all axes under power by the end of the next weekend.

[KenC]

This is one of the greatest mile stones in MM building journey.
I feel your excitement :)

ALMOST THERE!!!

[dbinokc]

Wired in the e-stops and proximity sensors today. Also spliced the extra 6 inches of length to the X-racks. The welds are not pretty, but they will do. After a little bit of configuration in Mach3, I got the x-axis moving. Video at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7iJpCtsdBQ

I still need to configure the proximity sensors inputs for Mach3. I also noticed that one of my gantry wheels is running about a half millimeter off the rail center. So I will need to shim that out a little. Obviously I need to do some configuring of the step rate, but I will leave it slow for now until I am sure that everything is behaving nicely. Less chance of crashing something.

Next big step is to work on getting the spindle mounted to the Z-axis and wiring up the VFD. I hope Mike gets me those Mechmate logos mailed soon. I would hate for that to be the only thing stopping me from getting a serial number.

[Tom Ayres]

Sounds like a wind-up toy. ;)

[dbinokc]

LOL. I had not thought of it that way!

[dbinokc]

Took a closer look at my chinese block of aluminum spindle mount. There is not a square pair of surfaces on that block. I would have been better off if they had sent me a raw casting without the spindle hole bored out. Then I would have had some room to square up the surfaces and bore an inline hole.

As it stands now, it looks like I would have to make a mandrel to mount the spindle block onto to get everything referenced to the bore.

Still trying to decide if I want to try and make this mounting block work or go with a different mounting method.

[Tom Ayres]

I made my own, copied one from someone on the forum. Mine still has the material info on it, doesn't matter, it works.

[dbinokc]

Below is a pic of what I am trying to accomplish. I already planned on making several modifications to the mount. There are mounting ears that would not clear the guide wheels. So those would be cutoff in addition to cutting some extra relief. I was also going to cut the mount in half to space out the support.

Relative to the mounting surface, the bore of the mount deviates about .2mm over 80mm. Not great, but I can live with it. A 1/4 inch bit would be out of level in that direction by less than .001 inch. Side to side though, the bore deviates by roughly 2mm from any usable reference surface.

What I need to do is figure out the line of the center bore to drill my mounting holes. Get these off and the spindle will not be square to surface and no way to shim it out.

Actually as I am typing this, I think I have way to handle it. I will go ahead and made the modification I planned. I will get one hole drilled. Then mount the spindle, mount and z-axis rail to the mill. Then I can align to the spindle and drill a starter hole. That hopefully will take care of the side to side alignment.

[dbinokc]

I finally figured out how to get the center line. Pic of the layout setup below.

Basic steps. Lay spindle with mounts on surface plate. Lock down the mounts. Mount spindle in V-block and make sure mount is now perpendicular using angle block. Measure top of spindle, subtract off 80mm/2 or 40mm. Mark center line.

Just another day of building a mechmate! :)

[lonestaral]

Necessity is the mother of invention.
Well done.
I hope to join the Chinese spindle owners club sometime this year.
Must join the dust extraction club soon.
Keep the solutions flowing.:)

[dbinokc]

Not as much progress as I would have liked this weekend. While tapping my spindle mount block, I accidentally used my fine threaded metric tap instead of the coarse one. So I can't mount the spindle until I get the fine threaded version of the socket screws in.
I did wire up the VFD and it is coming up just fine.

After much debating, I finally decided to go with an on gantry cpu water type for the spindle. It will be similar to what Tom has done.

The week after next I am off for a week. So that will give me nine straight days to start making chips. I think it will be doable.

[dbinokc]

Where are people buying bits at?

While I have a selection of milling cutters, I am not sure if they are best in the spindle. The primary cutting will be 3/4" plywood forms for various airplane parts forms and also cutting aluminum sheet(.063 and below). It has been mentioned that downward cutting bits help keep thin sheets pinned down.

[pblackburn]

The milling cutter you have are what? That encompasses a look of bits.

I buy from the place that has the best quality bit I am looking for at the best price. I, for the most part, buy only solid carbide bit, second would be brazed in carbide. Specialized bits usually come the source, other places are Amazon, RouterbitWorld, MSC and a few others. Most are 2 sided or fluted but I have 3 and 4 sided as well.

[dbinokc]

I have several HSS 2 and 4 flute endmills for my bridgeport and my small taig cnc mill. I am thinking for what I primarily want to do, I would want bits sizes sizes of 1/16,3/32 and 1/8 inch.
For initial testing I am sure I can use what I currently have, but I am looking for recommendations. I will probably try some of the router bits from drillbitcity.com that I have mentioned to you before.

[dbinokc]

Since I could not work on the spindle, I decided to do some more tuning of my mach3 configuration. I set the steps per mm (about 123) and adjusted the speed of motion to 1500mm/min.

I crudely mounted a permanent marker to do a test plot of one of the ribs for my airplane. The pen lost contact with the aluminum a few times. The pic is below. This rib is from the horizontal stabilizer. The X-direction of the plot came out not too bad, but the Y-direction of the plot came out a little long. Some more configuration is needed. Still for a first crude test, I am happy with the result.

If all I could use is a pen plotter and not have a spindle, it would save me a lot of time in building my plane. Being able to cut parts helps all the more.

[pblackburn]

The best way I think to fine tune the steps per inch is to have it travel close to the maximum distance of the the axis you are working on. For example I ran my X for 102" and and Y 52" then fine adjusted it to a only a measuring tape with a V bit for a indicator set to the 1" mark on the tape. This will reduce the largest amount of error. Then you can use a dial indicator to fine adjust if you wish.

I used it as a plotter to layout the pieces for my cyclone build. Helps a lot if the spoilboard is surfaced first.

[dbinokc]

I just did a quick and dirty tuning using my dial indicator over 10mm. I have a 2 meter long "meter stick" that I will use for final calibration. That will give me a more precise indication of my steps per mm. I will not get too much into fine tuning steps until everything is mounted, leveled and torqued down.

[dbinokc]

What have people been using for sealing the threaded water connection going into the spindle. Pipe dope, silicone sealant, rubber gasket?

[pblackburn]

Not needed. It is basically a compression connector

[pblackburn]

The tubing slips over the port and ring and the nut will compress the flexible tubing against the ring creating the seal. Sealant would be pointless and possibly weaken the flexible tubing.

[dbinokc]

I am not referring to the side that the tubing slips on to, but the side that screws into the spindle.

[KenC]

Teflon tape , standard stuff for pipe.

[dbinokc]

Got my water pump installed for the spindle and it does not work! :mad:
It is the same type that Tom bought. Contacted the seller, hopefully I can get him to send me a quick replacement. I may also check some of the local computer stores to see if they have a cpu water pump with a built in reservoir.

I did get the spindle mounted.

[Tom Ayres]

Sorry I recommended the pump. Questioning whether mine will last, may need a secondary. Have you had a chance to run some tests on your spindle yet?

[dbinokc]

It is not your fault. It seemed like a good idea to me as well.

After thinking about it some more, I am going to go back to using an aquarium pump. I had already bought one and I did a quick test. If I need a replacement fast, I can go to any pet store. I have some small tupperware containers that the pump will fit into quite nicely and sit on the gantry. I wanted to use a mason jar, but it was not quite big enough.

No spindle tests until the water is running. There is a good chance I will be able to do that tomorrow if there are no other surprises.

[KenC]

aquarium pump is not reliable for this job.
Tried the Tupperware on the gantry, not a good solution. when you are doing intricate carving you can see the water sloshing around like mad.
Ended up with a coolant pump & tank for lathe & milling machine use. using pneumatic tubing as water hose in the cable chain & the tank sitting under the table.

[dbinokc]

Not sure the aquarium can be much worse than a DOA CPU coolant pump. Good point on the sloshing around though.

[KenC]

Think rodeo ride. :D

[pblackburn]

I use an aquarium pump but you have to account for the head pressure and lift when purchasing. It will work fine if you have it sized appropriately.

[pblackburn]

I have a coolant tank on the floor with the pump.

[KenC]

Aquarium pump may not be the most economical solution... surely not the most reliable vs coolant pump.

[pblackburn]

Agreed

[Tom Ayres]

Db I ran mine long enough to cut the 'road runner' sample in mach. it suts in 48 seconds or something like that, not long enough to get hot or even warm for that matter.

[IMMark]

Would a pump like this one work, assuming you would use with a tank under the machine?
Thanks for any thoughts.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Little-Giant-110-volt-Swamp-Cooler-Water-Pump-CP-6500T-Product-540056-used-/111315910880?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19eaf200e0

Mark

[pblackburn]

You require for a 2.2kW spindle 24GPH of flow.

The newer model is the CP1-230 for 230V and CP1-115 for the 115VAC model. Reference Here at page numbered 11 or page 13 of the pdf. (http://www.franklin-electric.com/media/documents/995505%20HVAC%20Catalog%2001-13%20WEB.pdf) At 5ft of lift it will have 213GPH. You may have to add a relief to the line to lower the GPH so you are not forcing too much water through the unit that will cause condensation to form. Little Giant makes some good pumps. We use them in our cut off saws however I have never used this model of pump. This would be the smallest of this style pump being 1/70HP.

I hope that helps.

New ones are between $30 to $48 USD depending on where you buy. Beckett makes good pumps as well.

[ger21]

Someone at CNC Zone just did a test with a 300GPH pump.

He measured the time it took for 1 gallon of water to flow through the spindle. It took 2 minutes, 54 seconds, or about 20.6GPH.

Basically, you can't force too much water through the spindle, as it's too restrictive internally.

[dbinokc]

Just got the spindle turning for the first time. Just a quick off and on. No issues there. I did have the aquarium pump pushing water from a bucket sitting on the table.

So I can spin the motor or move the axis. Now I just need to get things going where I can do both!

I also need to take a little time to study the manual so I can make sure the rpms are getting set right so I can do a proper run-in of the bearings.

[pblackburn]

Thanks Ger. Good info as always from you.

[pblackburn]

Don't be afraid to run the spindle without water for a few minutes with no load. Just don't run it a low rpm for too long. With a VFD, that is the biggest heat generator for a motor.

[IMMark]

Thanks Ger. Good info as always from you.

Thanks Ger and Pete...sounds like too much water...
Mark

[dbinokc]

I just finished the extended run up tests for my spindle as suggested at
http://www.pdscolombo.com/spindle-maintenance

Got my tupperware cooler setup. To deal with any sloshing issues, I have ordered some ping pong balls that I will add to the container. This may keep the water from building up any momentum and prevent excessive sloshing.

I mounted up a bit and did a test cut under manual control. Just using the pendant to cut a little square. Since I have not mounted the spoil board, I really do not have anything I can attach to to risk anything more complex.

Tomorrow(I am off this week), I will recheck the level, lock down the base board and put on the spoil board. I will not glue it on initially, until I am sure everything is working first.

[Tom Ayres]

In fuel cells for race cars they have a baffle like a sponge material. Try putting a couple large sponges inside the bowl. You'll need a place under the sponges as a pick-up area so a wire mesh on the bottom with a pickup tube below that should work nicely.

[dbinokc]

I thought about that, but I wanted to be be sure I did not pick a material that could shed particles that would get into the cooling channels. That is why I decided to try ping pong balls.

[dbinokc]

Continuing checks on the table.

Yesterday I rechecked the level on the table, torqued down the base board and have loosely mounted the spoil board(not glued yet). I also did some more calibration of the steps better than before. I have under a mm over 1000mm.

Up to this point I have not had the rails fully tightened down. With the table leveled I will start working on getting final alignment and level of the x-rails. A quick square check between x and y showed they are pretty much already at right angles. Hopefully I can maintain that as I get things tightened up.

[dbinokc]

Did some more tests today using the plotter pen. A video of a test plot of a rib blank for the stabilizer for the Zenith 650B can be seen at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH3-_zSZFqQ

At this point I am transitioning back to working on my plane. I will stick with running the mechmate as a big plotter for a little longer. I want to get more familiar with the characteristics of the machine and also get back into practice with generating g-code. I want to minimize the chances of ruining expensive pieces of aluminum.

Probably the first thing I will be cutting will be 14 center ribs and another 14 nose ribs for the wing. I was starting work on the main spar, when I decided to take a detour with building the mechmate. When I start actual cutting I will get a video posted. Hopefully by then Mike will have sent the logos.

[Tom Ayres]

Well Alright, time to get started!

[KenC]

Don't worry, MM can take more abuse then you would expect.
Get some scrap plates & start cutting some interesting but useless things. I reckon its the best approach in scaling the learning curve. U can use cheap router bits to start with.
G-code is the least problem in the learning curve, you will have to consider the hold down, lubrication, chip management, feed speed, bit speed... all which you will only find out after you had a go at it.

[Tom Ayres]

Believe what Ken says...

[darren salyer]

I'm interested in your plane build as well as your MM build.
Will you have a build thread for the plane going elsewhere?
If not, I vote for frequent updates on the plane project with pics posted here.
I believe we could all learn from your plane building experiences.
As far as useless shapes for practice, cutting gussets and brackets for shop accessories like shelves and other projects is a great way to kill two birds with one stone..

Edit: I just ordered a plotter pen holder for my MM, and I'm looking forward to doing some "Spirograph" type drawings.
For anyone who remembers those toys as a kid, I ALWAYS had the gears slip apart right near the end of a drawing...