Cold Air Gun Success #94 - Northern NJ USA

[TechGladiator]

Hi everyone, I'm from Northern NJ and after reading a bunch of the postings in the forums I decided to start my own build. I will start posting pictures of the progress as soon as I get started.

[smreish]

Welcome to the Club - you won't be disappointed.
Good luck.
Read a lot, ask questions - be mindful of the budget vs. performance you want out of the machine.

[domino11]

Welcome!

[MetalHead]

Welcome to the team !!!

[TechGladiator]

Thanks guys!... Just a quick question, I will be ordering the steel tomorrow from a local supplier here, Does anybody have a list of materials for the steel? I know I can probably figure it out by going through the plans but I was wondering if anybody had a list. I already ordered the Machined Parts from Mike.

Thanks in Advance,
Miguel

[TechGladiator]

After careful review of the plans by my helper, tomorrow I will order the right amount of steel. Lot of hard work went on today as you can see..:)

[TechGladiator]

So here goes a couple of probably stupid questions. Since I am waiting for the steel to come in I figured I can start doing some planning for the electrical. I have both 110v and 220v in my building/warehouse. Which one should I go with? Also, I why do I need a VFD? I know what a VFD does as we use them at work for Blowers and conveyors, but why do I need it here? Lastly, if I need it, I have a brand new Telemequanique (sp?) Altivar 31 (3HP) at the shop, can I use this?

Thanks
Miguel

[KenC]

Welcome.
While you are waiting, I strongly recommend to go through the whole forum thread by threat, post by post & word by word,,,, over & over again...
The basic CNC router use a router (obviously :D). You will need a VFD to drive a spindle motor if you go the spindle way, that will incur some extra expenses. With a spindle, you can pin-point whatever cutter rpm which you fancy. Spindle motor usually runs up to 24000rpm & you need a 400Hz VFD yo get to that speed.
Size of the VFD depends on your spindle size & your spindle size depends on many factors such as the type of material you cut, your bit choice, the type of job you do, last but not the least is your inherent cutting habit.
Before you ask what Hp spindle is the best, I'll say it is just like buying any other equipment, There are no fix answer to what size spindle is best, or good enough, or best bang for the buck... no matter what you buy, they are never good enough eventually...

[TechGladiator]

Ken

Thank you for your input. It's a little more clear now :).

Thanks
Miguel

[TechGladiator]

So today felt really good. I contacted three different steel suppliers withing 25 miles of where I live and boy-oh-boy am I glad that I did. The price difference between them is pretty huge. I got a price quote from one place of $1,926 which was about twice of what I was expecting to pay. I found a place 3 miles down the road that will deliver for $910. (for a 9x6 table). I am going to attempt to go make a bolted frame based on Surfcnc table.

Here is what I ordered so far, I am sure I will need some more


Qty: (1) -- C8" x 13.75# X 20' C-Channel for the mail rails
Qty: (4) -- C3" x 4.1# X 20' C-Channel for cross beans and legs
Qty: (6) -- 1.5" x 1.5" x 1/8" x 20' Rectangular tube for X & Y lower bracing
Qty: (1) -- 2" x 4" x 14 Gauge x 24' Rectangular tube for the Gantry
Qty: (2) -- 2.5" x 2" x 1/4" x 20' Angle channel for the rails.

I have also ordered the laser cut parts from Mike so I am waiting for those as well.

[timberlinemd]

Your one piece of C8 will allow you to build a table that will be able to cut a 97" long sheet of material, but will not cut a 9' long sheet of material, if that is indeed what you want to do?

[Surfcnc]

Hi Miguel

Now they have been nice enough to provide you with a good price, it is also an idea to let them know you are building a precision machine.
Create an expectation of the quality you might be expecting in terms of the straightness of the sections etc.
Some people have discovered 4mm bows in the big X beams and had to weld them straight.
It can be fixed but take your time when you receive the steel and check over all the sections before they are in your possession for too long.

Regards
Ross

PS A surfcnc table (base) you say - I'm honoured:)

[TechGladiator]

Yes :). I am ok with that.

Thanks
Miguel

[smreish]

If you notice in the plans, the use of the diagonal cut on the c8 beams allows for the top chord of the structural beam to be long enough to allow for this length. If you cut the beam in half, then angle cut, it wouldn't be long enough (in some cases) . Be mindful of accuracy when making that cut!

[TechGladiator]

Ross;

Thanks for the tip, I didn't even think about that. This is going to be the first time I weld, so I don't know if I would be able to fix it with my welding. I can do programming but not welding :)

I will keep you all posted as to what I receive.

Thanks again
Miguel

[Rusty Nuts]

Miguel, I posted the materials which I used to build the frame work of my MM. The price you quoted is about what I paid. Be sure to measure twice and cut once:eek:

Gary

[MetalHead]

Friendly reminder to not include text from previous post in your replies. No need to duplicate entries and clutter up the database.

[TechGladiator]

Thanks Mike. I didn't realize that.

[TechGladiator]

Today was a busy fun day. I received all the steel and cut what I believe is all the pieces I am going to need. It was an undertaking having to cut the C8. It came on a 20' section which means it's about 280lbs, good thing I ate my weedies this morning :).

Since I didn't own a welder and a drill press I also made a trip to the hardware store and picked up both of them. I ended up buying a Rigid 8HP 12 Speed dripp press for $214 (Was on clearance, go figure) and a Lincoln Electric 140Amp Mig welder. It look like the nicest unit that the store had that could still run on 110AC and has the ability to hook up a CO2/Air tank to it. Which reminds me, For all you guys that already have experience welding, do recommend welding with or without the CO2? Also, I was talking to this guy at the hardware store and he mentioned to me that if I was going to do frame welding I should get some Welding arrow magnets. I checked ebay and I was able to get 12 for about $24 (all different sizes, 75lbs, 50lbs and 25lbs).

Tomorrow will be trying to get all the drilling done..

[baseball43v3r]

using a gas mixture can make all the difference in the world. the gas shield helps greatly in reducing splatter. Also seems to be a cleaner weld, at least for me.

[MetalHead]

As far as the gas it does help with the weld splatter, but you can just use flux core and splatter guard http://www.safenclean.com/welding/index.html or PAM will also work without spending the money on the botthe and the gas. Did that Lincoln come with the regulator for the gas bottle or is it another purchase? Just make sure you use flux core wire if not using the bottle. Clean, Clean, Clean the weld areas. Get a wire cup brush for your 4 inch grinder to clean the area before welding. Also get a wire brush and a chipping hammer to clean the welds after they are done because they will have a crust on top that needs to come off.

[TechGladiator]

Today I felt like a kid in a candy store. I got my Argon/CO2 gas bottle to start welding and I also received the lasered parts from Mike.

I tried the welding with and without the CO2 gas and WOW, what a difference. I do have both types of welding wire (with and without flux) and the welding with CO2 goes so much smoother. I am attaching a couple of pictures of the welds (Nothing great but it's my first time ever welding).

I also saw one of the best warning signs on an electrical box today and I figured I would share it with you guys.

[TechGladiator]

So today I did a bunch of drilling and welded almost everything on the table, except the Cross beams and legs which I drilled so I can take it apart if I need to. I think in another 3-4 hours I will have all the welding and drilling done on the table.

[TechGladiator]

I am confused about a couple things (doesn't take much) and I figured before I mess up I would ask.

1) What is the purpose of the X/Y-Rail Clamp Strip?

2) I am building the Y/Y Rail out of 2.5" x 2" Angle Channel, do I need to cut the height of the rail? (Or is it even recommended?) I don't see a clear indication of this on the plans.

Thanks
Miguel

[MetalHead]

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18253&postcount=1

Go read this.

[Rusty Nuts]

Miguel

The clamp strip can be from the cut offs of the rails. It is drilled at the same time you drill the Y rails, you will then tap the holes in the clamp strip for what ever size bolts you plan to use to secure your rails. The clamp strip will be inserted into the Y tubing and act as a set of nuts for the rail bolts. If you use the recommed tubing for the granty it will be too light to tap thus the clamp strips.

You will not need a clamp strips for the X rails as you can drill and tap the C channel.

Yes you will have to cut the angle iron down on one side.

The info is in the plans, it helped me by marking the pages for each step with sticky notes, be sure to study before cutting because the MM plans are laid out for mutiple sizes so be sure you are using the correct dimensions.

Gary

[TechGladiator]

Gary;

It makes a lot of sense now.!. Thanks for the explanation.

Miguel

[TechGladiator]

Quick Question. I have the table pretty much all done and I am just about to start mounting the Rails. My distance between the outer edge of the Y Beams is 71", How much do I make my Y-Rails hang of the side of my C8/Y beam? I am sure it's on the plans but I dont see it :(.

Thanks
Miguel

[domino11]

That dimension is on Drawing 10 10 300 D and listed as Dimension M, it is not a set amount. Also usually in the plans the X axis is set on the C channel and the Y axis is made of tubing that holds the Y car. Your length seems like a Y axis length but the description seems to depict an X axis? :confused:

Dimension M is not the width of your rack. It is the space available for mounting the rack. (Rack widths vary from 3/8" to 17mm - depending on supplier/country)

Dimension M is affected by the straightness of the beams after welding and that is why it is not given as an absolute number. In theory, it is 21mm, which allows 4mm weld distortion for the guys with 17mm racks.

[TechGladiator]

Domino.

Sorry.> I did confuse myself :).. I am talking about the X Rails. I guess I have to make a Gauge Rod of my Y+461mm and then position my X-rails at an equal M distance. Am I corect?

Thank you again
Miguel

[domino11]

Your on the right track now! :)

[TechGladiator]

Heath.

Thank you!. I needed somebody to shine a little light into the situation.

Attached are some of the pictures of the progress of the table. Not quite as nice as SurfCnc's machine yet but pictures of his machine have helped me tremendously. I decided to put 6 legs on the machine instead of 4 since my machine is a little longer and wanted to machine sure it was as sturdy as possible.

I will be cutting and mounting the rails this weekend.

[TechGladiator]

So I have one more question. After putting the whole table together it seems that I am about 1/16" off on on my Y axle. My Y1 distance is EXACTLY 71" and my Y2 distance is 71 1/16". Before I go any further, what can I do? Or should I not even sorry and just worry about getting the X rails within the 1mm variance?

ANy help would be appreciated.

[timberlinemd]

What do you mean when you refer to Y1/Y2? If it is the length of the tubes, then clamp them together, line up and square two ends and belt sand the other two ends square and to the same length. http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2750 and see post #12

[Alan_c]

If you are referring to the distance between the X-beams at each end of the table, 1/16" is not worth worrying about, when you fix the x-rails down to the top of the beams there is enough wiggle room on the bolt holes to correct that minor discrepancy.

[TechGladiator]

Alan

Great.. Thanks.. I was referring to the distance between the X-beams.

[Kobus_Joubert]

To recap on my machine how I did the X-rails. I fixed the first rail in place. On the other X-rail I added one bolt at the start. The other end more or less in the correct place held down with a clamp....or between two blocks of wood...so it cannot fall off the beam.
Then I added my Gantry on the rail. As I roll it along I added more and more bolts to the X-rail.,,no measuring needed.

[Gerald D]

If your "error" after welding is only 1/16" then you are doing darn well! Some guys were about 3/8" out and still got their systems to work without too much pain.

One of the next steps is to clamp the rails down parallel and then through drill them to the beams. And then we give more wiggle room by enlarging the holes in the rails for final adjustment. So you still have 2 more chances to get it right on.

[TechGladiator]

Kobus: I like your idea. I think I am going to use that.

Gerald: Thanks. I remember reading somewhere measure "2X cut once", well I thought the X was in roman numerals so I measured 20 times and cut once.

With regards to clamping down the rails, because I have to account for the 1/16 variant at the one end of the table, obviously my "M" measurement at the one end of the table is going to be 1/16 smaller than at the other end since I have to keep the table square right?

On another note, I just burned through my first angle grinder today. Brand new Ryobi 5.5Amp 4.5". It gave up half way through the first X rail. I went back to the hardware store and they quickly replaced it with another one. Hopefully I will have better luck with this new one or I may be looking at a different brand or maybe even something with more amps.

With regards to cutting down the rails, I should make a few passes with the grinder/cutter instead of trying to cut it all in one pass, right?

[smreish]

All start at the end of your post....MAKE A LOT OF PASSES. You It should take about 10-20 light passes to bisect the rail section. If the grinder head is too hot to touch - then your trying to hard. Patience is important here.

Also, cutting with a VERY narrow kerf metal cutting disk will do the job quicker too. Don't cheap out on the Harbor Freight or discount abrasive cutting disk. Many, including myself, have had great success with the Stainless Steel type.

You don't necessarily have to have the table Square - the relationship of Rail to Rail is what is really important.

Just pay attention to your overhang on the angle iron which is the side that holds the rack (for the pinion drive) You overhand must be 1/2" (width of the rack) + just a little so the pinion fully seats.

[TechGladiator]

Sean;

Thank for for clarifying those things.

The only this that remains unclear is that since the difference on my X-Axis width at one end of the table is 71" and 71 1/16" at the other end. I guess my question is, when I set the rails, do I make the rails perfectly square or do I make up for the 1/16" on the one end? doing 1/32 extra on each rail on the side where the difference is? If I dont, my M measurement is going to be off by 1/16. Maybe I am just worrying too much about it .

[bradm]

Miguel, you make the rails perfectly square to each other so that the gantry rolls true. That means that relative to the table, there will be 1/16" variation, either at one end, or splitting the difference; it just doesn't matter because your table is close enough.

Think about placing a window or a door unit into a house. A best effort was made to have the rough opening be true, but you use shims to get the final window install perfect. You don't force the window unit to the opening - that would make it operate poorly. You don't worry about the rough opening.

Don't worry, just follow one of the rail setting procedures above or elsewhere, and it will work out.

[TechGladiator]

Brad, Thank you. I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

[Gerald D]

"doing 1/32 extra on each rail on the side where the difference is?" Yes, that is it.

Put "square" out of your mind - only think parallel for now. (You sort out square with the adjustable end-stops and then you trim the table top with the machine so that everything aligns up at the end)

[TechGladiator]

Gerald: Thank you, Well put. The Square vs Parallel made it 100% clear for me.

So today I cut two of the rails out (in between my kids football games) using the 15-20 passes as somebody had recommended and worked great!.. It looks like i will be using 1.5 disks per rail. These are DeWalt metal cutting disks. I am sure they are not the best quality but I was able to pick them up for around $3.80 at Loews (Only hardware store open around here on Sunday). after cutting down the two rails I noticed I was cutting them at around 30mm instead of the suggested 28mm but I am guessing that's not the worse thing in the world, right?

[Kobus_Joubert]

Doing the rails at 30mm should not be much of a problem...I was 6mm out and had to adjust the motor bracket slightly... I measured 28mm from the INSIDE of the 6mm thick angle iron and not from the bottom.

[TechGladiator]

It looks like I got everything pretty much cut, driller, bolted and welded on the table. I took the table apart today (After my commute to work lasted 2.5 hrs instead of the normal 12 minutes because of the torrential rain we had) and primed everything. I probably over killed it but I wanted to get a nice coat before the pain tomorrow.

Tomorrow I will start painting the table and touching up any imperfections.

[TechGladiator]

Today I finished painting the table and finished welding the gantry. I learned a couple valuable lessons today. Lesson #1 ALWAYS use the right paint mask and safety glasses. Out of stupidity I assumed (felt stupid afterwards) that I would be OK using a regular dust mask when spray painting the table. After about 20 minutes I could taste the paint, so I cleaned my face up and went to the hardware store and invested on a good paint mask $49 and a pair of clear plastic safety glasses. The funny part is that at the end of the day I had more red hair than my wife (and she is a redhead) :). So lesson #2, also wear a hat :)

I wanted to thank everybody on this forums for posting their pictures. Today when I was tag welding the gantry I realized that my one "end cap" that is a little different than the other three was in the wrong size of the gantry. I quickly removed the tag weld and fixed it. No harm done... After leveling my table I used it to mount the gantry. It worked perfectly using SurfCNC (aka Ross) method with the threaded rods. Thanks for the pictures!!!.

[TechGladiator]

I know this may be a stupid question, but which drawing has the distance between the Y rails? or what is the distance between them? I am trying to get them drilled and tapped before the weekend but my cold is not letting me think straight.

[timberlinemd]

It's not on the drawings. Search this thread...
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233

[TechGladiator]

Thanks Steve!!!. That's exactly what I was looking for. I don't have my V bearings yet (coming on Tuesday) but I wanted to get it ready for when they arrive.

[TechGladiator]

Would anybody happen to have a list of the bolts and nuts that I would need for the Gantry and rack/pinions? I am about to place an order with McMaster for the Pinions and I figured I would order whatever else I need to complete everything on the Gantry.

Thanks
Miguel

[timberlinemd]

Sent a PM

[TechGladiator]

So today I got the gantry rolling. I received the V-rollers and everything worked perfectly. I need to do a little adjustment with some pvc washers but I think all in all it's sliding pretty smoothly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndPl-VnvJvk

For all of you that are wondering what happened to the red color, WELL, always make sure that your primer is meant for steel :). Within two weeks of painting the machine it was already peeling so I had to sand it down and re-prime it. I bought the primer / paint combination from ebay and you can tell the difference when you apply it with the spray gun. 10 times better.

Tomorrow I will get the Z-car going and getting it ready for the electronics that are coming on Wednesday (THANKS MIKE!).

[MetalHead]

Hey what gave with the red paint :D ??? ;)

[TechGladiator]

There is more red coming, don't worry :). The problem was that it wasn't sticking the the primer properly.

Where should I get the cable guides from? And does anybody have a specific model that they are happy with ?

[KenC]

There are no hard & fast spec. for the cable chain, as long as
1) it can take in all the stuff you decided to chuck in,
2) the un-supported length is sufficient for your needs
3) fits your bank account.

[smreish]

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498&highlight=igus

Specifications and requirements for energy chain.
IGUS, Kabel are good resources.
Ebay often has energy chain for sale if you look for it.

I have had excellent results with the medium energy chain from IGUS.
outside dimensions of:

1.375 thick
2.85 wide
radius of 100 mm (total bend radius of about 4.5 inchs, 9" approx diameter)

Available from IGUS direct or McMaster carr.

[domino11]

Miguel,
Blue paint sticks better to primer, we all know that. :):D:rolleyes:

[TechGladiator]

Heath.

I was wondering how long it would take fore somebody to make that comment.. hahaha!!!

[domino11]

You did open the door with the "wasn't sticking the the primer properly." comment. :)

[TechGladiator]

@Heath: I did open up myself for that comment :)

I have to say I am blown away about the "Same Day Delivery" that McMaster offers. About 3-4 days ago I ordered a few bolts along with a few different things from them around 9am, guess what??? It was at my office doorstep by 3:30pm!!.. The label in the box said "Speedy Same day Delivery!!!!" now that's fast shipping.

I am about to start working on the motor mounting and would love to know if any of you guys have ordered the belt and pulley from McMaster and would happen to have part numbers that could share.

[TechGladiator]

Here are the pictures of the repainted table. After re-priming it, getting a better paint gun and better paint. Starting to put it back together. I welded the 1.5x1.5" square pipe to the table to be able to attach the casters with U-Bolts. It worked out pretty good.

[jhiggins7]

Nice work Miguel. Looks sharp! Great idea to use the square tube to provide a flat surface to mount the casters.

[domino11]

Looking good Miguel. :)

[TechGladiator]

Thanks guys. I do have to say, this is my very first time welding and painting with an HPLV (Spray) gun. Who ever came up with the idea of putting training videos on youtube is a genius.

One of the main reasons I went for a bolted machine vs welded was so I could easily move it when it came time to move from my current warehouse/office BUT it has already showed is advantages. When I was mounting the X rails I noticed the table was about 1" off square which made me almost stop breathing because I hadn't notice this problem while I was building the machine. It ended up being a really easy fix because it was bolted. I loosened the bolts on the crossing beams and within 10 minutes it was back to Square, it was a good feeling!...

[TechGladiator]

I added a youtube video with a bunch of pictures and timeline of the build so far. Hope you guys enjoy it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se6LFuZdvHs

[234ahmed]

Great looking machine Miguel. Great music also.
You have a good taste :)
Wish you all the best

[TechGladiator]

Thank you Ahmed!...Hopefully will be making some dust pretty soon. Trying to make my kids a home made skateboard (I may have to get some pointers from Ross/Surfcnc)..

[TechGladiator]

So today I started wiring the electronics. I am attaching a couple pictures of the progress. On the Right hand side of the panel you can see the power supplies, I am hoping they are big enough.

[zumergido]

:eek: how many machines you are building? i see 4 transformers each one big enough for one machine.
do some show and tell becouse that cabinet have some xtras that i dont think will be for the MM
but at the end... GOOD WORK

[MetalHead]

:D Funny !!! All that for a 2x2 machine ???

[TechGladiator]

I really want to make sure that I have everything cover.. hehehe!:) Kidding.

Actually, we are building this MCC (Motor Control Center) for a customer of ours. It will control a car wash and all its machines, sensors, conveyor, parking lot lights, sprinkler system, etc etc etc. Unfortunately I didn't take a good picture of the top/left hand side of the box. There is three phase 480V @ 800Amps coming into this box. Some of the components inside the box are (12) 15HP VFDs, (1) 3HP VFD, (4) 48V Power supplies for the LED lights, (6) 500VA power supplies, 324 (Not a typo) SPDT relays to control the equipement (Soap/water/chemical solenoids), and our embedded controller that makes everything work :)

[KenC]

LOL！！！ You got me!!!
I was beginning to wonder how complicated anyone can make the MM control panel into :D

[TechGladiator]

@Ken: That was the intent:). I wanted a little humor on the thread.

I just realized I had not posted an update in almost two weeks. After reading a bunch of threads about grinding the Z-Plate I decided to finally get it done. I have to say it was a lot easier than I had anticipated. I ordered the plate from McMaster (36") and once received it only took me 30 minutes per side to grind with the skate. I know there are a lot of pictures about the skate mounting and what not but I figured I would take some more. The pictures on this forum has helped me tremendously!!..

The 3kw spindle and VFD arrived today so I will be mounting that over the weekend. I will also be taking some more picture of the machine in the next day or so to post the progress.

[smreish]

Yep, that looks about right.

For the new readers, you can notice that he used a 36" long unit and ground the edge, then trimmed to length.

[TechGladiator]

So I have the Z-Slide all drilled and tapped. Motors are mounted. The large black area you see on the side of the table is the area for the control boxes and VFD box to get mounted.. I think I will start wiring this weekend..

[TechGladiator]

So I just wanted to give everybody a quick update. I took some time off for the holidays to get things done on the "Honey Do List". As the old saying goes "Happy wife, happy life".

The table building is all complete as you can mostly see from the pictures above. I have mounted all the electronics, ran all the wires and probably terminated about 75% of all the wiring. Over the next could of days I am going to be finishing wiring the limit sensors as well as the start/stop circuit. So far the contactor, front door start/stop button, gecko drives, BOB and power supply are all wired.

I will be posting pictures within the next day or so.

[MetalHead]

Looking good !!!

[TechGladiator]

So I am stuck on what it may be a non-issue or just a personal preference but I wanted to make sure. I am getting ready to wire the steppers into the Gecko drives (No BOB). I have the 8 wire KL34H280-45-8A and I am going to be wiring them Bipolar-Parallel @ 48VDC. I have run two cables into each one of the junction boxes (One 8 Conductor shielded and One 4 Conductor shielded). My question is, which one do I use for the steppers? Do I double up each of the wires for the steppers and use the 4 Conductor wire or do I use the 8 conductor wire and then just pair the wires in the box where the Gecko drives are?

Also, just to make sure. I am wiring as follows with a 39k resistor on each Gecko drive.

(A+) Blue & Yellow
(A-) Red & Green
(B+) Brown & Orange
(B-) Black & White

[bradm]

You could do either, although my preference would be to use the 4 conductor wire, since it should be less expensive, and requires fewer total connections.

[baseball43v3r]

i have the same motors you do, and the wiring you show is correct. double check your resistor value just to be sure! i had the wrong one, and it caused me problems for days...

[TechGladiator]

Thank you guys. I will do some more wiring tomorrow. I am coming down to the final stretch. Just the start/stop/pause buttons to wire up. So far I've been able to keep the magic smoke inside all the electronic components.

[MetalHead]

Use the 4 core to the motor and wire the ends there. Your resistor should be 420K (+/-) a little since that is the 6.3 amp config. Motor wire pairs look correct.

[TechGladiator]

Mike: Do I use the 420K for each of the Gecko drives? I am not using the PMDX-133, I am wiring directly into the PMDX-126.

[MetalHead]

The resistors are for the motors. All the 133 board does is simplify the wiring. You will see a place on the 203V for the resistors. These are current limit resistors for the Geckos/Motors.

[baseball43v3r]

miguel, see this post for how the gecko is wired up. you'll see the resistor on the left hand side, you need one per gecko.

http://mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=54037&postcount=39

[TechGladiator]

Not a whole lot of news. I have all the motors and drives wired up. Tomorrow will be time for start/stop/pause buttons. Bellow are some pictures of the progress

[TechGladiator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6VPiohh5Vk

Today was a good day :). I was able to get all for steppers to work in test mode built-in to the PMDX-126... Getting closer to some dust..

[cvriv.charles]

VERY COOL MIGUEL!! I have yet to read through your log here. But let me ask,... where did you buy all your steel? Online or local?

[TechGladiator]

Charles: I bought it local from a place 5 minutes from my office. It wasn't bad $1,100. But you definitively don't want them to cut the big pieces because they would have charged me twice as much. You may want to check a local place to you unless you have a way to transport it. Their delivery charges will probably kill you from here..

[cvriv.charles]

Thanks. Ill check around here then. I'm going to purchase a trailer to hook up to my car. If I can carry it all home myself I will. I'm going to cut everything myself. Finding a place local would be great because I'll be able to go and check everything to make sure it's all as true as possible. Would hate to have a bunch of warped steel to show up at my door:(

Another thing,... what size bolts are you using to bolt all your legs together? I'm modeling a bolt together machine. I was thinking 3/8" bolts to hold the legs to the X beams. Also, 3/8" bolts to hold the Y beams to the X beams as well. 3/8" blots are pretty hefty but we're talking about a machine that weighs a ton or more.

[TechGladiator]

Attached are some pictures of the last update. I am almost done with all the wiring. I underestimated how much more wiring was left to do. I decided to run my E-Stops, Start, Resume and Prox Sensors through relays. It was a little more work to do that but I think it came out a lot nicer at the end.

I am also attaching a picture of my Z Rail Prox sensor mount. I decided to mount it a little bit different than what I have seen with an L bracket. It seems to do the trick.

Let me know what you guys think.

[cvriv.charles]

You scaring me with all that wiring! LOL. I know I will have trouble with all that. I'm definitely looking to learn though. Very nice Miguel. Good job love the colors. I'm looking to do a dual color machine as well, dark grey and orange.

[Alan_c]

Nice work Miguel, panel looks good (if not a little intimidating)

Clever choice of position for the Z proxy. An added bonus is that if the z jams and the motor climbs out you will have the same sort of protection you would have on the other axes.(as the proxy moves away from the support tube it would trigger the limit) If it was positioned above the pinion it would be even more effective.

[smreish]

Alan,
Glad you caught that too! The sensor would act like a derail on the x and y axis.
Nicely done.

[TechGladiator]

I know it needs a lot of tuning, BUT I got Mach3 controlling the table now.. Today was a good day!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=920fGu087lY

[Darin]

Looks Awesome! So close to done! I wouldn't be able to stop that close :)

[KenC]

Great effort to details! Very professionally done. You should be manufacturing a lot of dust very soon!
What is that thingy with blue sticker at the top right corner of the control penal?
Charles,
Don't be intimidated by the wiring. You can always op for something simple. For a start, I reckon you can reduce the numbers of connectors & number of fuses at the 2nd top rows. What Miguel did makes trouble shooting & future "upgrades" really easy.

[hflwaterski]

Awesome job! I can only hope my build turns out anywhere close to the quality of yours. You definitely have me rethinking the size of my electrical panel though. I'm very tight on space and can't do anything nearly as elegant.

[Surfcnc]

Hi Miguel

Thanks for the video BUT every time I see an MM with belt reductions, it reminds me I still have that outstanding :D.
You get an ear for your own machine rather quickly and to hear those motors humming away at 4x my RPM, all I hear is increased precision.

Absolutely top job, it is good for the Mechmate brand to have builds like yours on the forum.

I really like the Z proxy holding method. As Alan says moving the proxy past the pinion will also give an effective EStop when the pinon jumps out of the rack.
I regularly use my Z axis pinion as a grinder and it is not a good thing !!

The enthusiasm you have shown will be rewarded many times over with what your machine will soon produce for you.
As they say so often on the forum "now the learning begins".
Enjoy the journey and remember to charge your mates for all their crazy ideas the want made on the Mechmate. :)

Well done

Ross

[TechGladiator]

Thank you guys!!!.. Your comments are very welcomed.

@Charles: The wiring is actually not that bad, I will promise you that. It seems like there is a lot of wiring but as Ken said, I wired it like that because I think it will make it easier for troubleshooting and upgrades.

@Alan & Sean: You have to excuse me but I don't understand the position over the pinion. Can you maybe explain? I am just not seeing it :). I think it may be worth mentioning that I have a Bolt in the middle of Z Axis (You can see i in the picture) that acts as a Z Limit and will physically prevent the Z from shooting up. Is this what you are talking about?


@Ken: Thank you!.. I am getting very close to dust. I have the spindle connected to the machine but my 220V outlet is only 2Phase and I need a 3 Phase. I am going to to convert the outlet to a 30AMP 3 Phase tomorrow. The wiring I have there is already good enough since it's 10 AWG. So I am replacing the 2 Pole breaker in the breaker panel with a 3 Pole one and rewiring my Neutral wire into other phase and we should be good to go.. Also, the BLUE "Thingie" hehehe is a 24VDC power supply that feeds the RESUME, STOP AND E-STOP CIRCUIT. I deviated a little bit from the Start/Stop circuit that I have seen in the forums. I was able to use 4 Total wires for my E-Stop, Stop and Resume buttons . Then with a DPDT Relay I am able to not only to give a 12VDC (GND) signal to the PMDX for the E-STOP/RESUME/STOP but I am also able to have a true E-STOP that cuts the Power to my box. My 12VDC feeds my Prox Switches and Prox Relays but I didn't want to stress the power supply. I will also use it for the relays that are going to go in my VFD cabinet.

@Herb: If I was to do the box over again I think I would change two things. 1) I wouldnt necesarily mount the power supply flat on the back plate. I would mount it with some kind of L bracket so I would have a little bit more room for other components. 2) I would mount the Gecko drives on the right hand side wall of the box with the Aluminum Heat Sink, leaving me a lot more room inside the box. My box is 30x20 (maybe 32x20) but I have used ever inch of it as you can see.

@Ross: I do have to give you a LOT of credit because although I have read a lot of the threads from different builders I have probably memorized every word on yours and printed a lot of the pictures. :) THANK YOU FOR REALLY SHARING YOUR BUILD.. Your build definetally inspired me to continue with mine every step of the way. Although I was able to read the plans from Gerald (GREAT JOB BTW!!. I CANT THANK YOU ENOUGH EITHER), I like to see pictures. So I attribute a lot of my success to your build. There has been many times when I was looking at your thread and my kids would be sitting next to me that they said "Dad, You are building us one of those Skate boards, right?", of course now that the machine is pretty much done they are asking me "When are you doing it!!?.." Thank you for your kind words, they mean a lot!!

And last but not least, Thank You Mike (MetalHead)!!! for running a great site and all your help sourcing parts along the way. AND ALL the great people on this forums for sharing your builds!!.. A BIG THANK YOU!!!

[Alan_c]

If the Z axis should jam against anything (a misplaced clamp, off cut on the table or trying to plunge with the router off), the motor pinion will continue to try and turn, as the Z axis is now jammed, the pinion will climb out of the rack and the motor plate will pivot away from the rack until the pinion has rotated past the tooth of the rack and then fall back in. It will keep doing this until you either stop it or the machine thinks it has reached the depth it was aiming at.

Your arrangement of the sensor is a good one as the sensor will move away from the tube if the Z jams and the pinion keeps rotating which in turn will pivot the motor plate and attached sensor away. If you mount the sensor above the pinion (i.e. further away from the plate pivot point) the distance that the sensor will move away from the tube will be increased and will trigger the limit earlier which in turn will give greater protection to your machine.

Hope that explains it better.

[TechGladiator]

Alan;

Perfect explanation. Thank you.... Now I see the light :).

I have started designing a little operator console for my MM. The enclosure will house a 17" Touch screen, Mini-ITX computer and a little operator panel for buttons.

Let me know what you guys think

[MetalHead]

Hey that looks cool !!

[TechGladiator]

I received the Cool Air Gun yesterday and although I don't have the spindle working yet I figured I would see how it could be mounted. Well, I think Gerald designed the Y Car with it in mind because it fits there PERFECTLY. I also was feeling bad that there was no blue on the machine so I picked up a 3/8" hose for the gun (rated at 300psi) from the local home depot. I have attached some pictures to show the installation. I am planning on having a quick connect/detach on both ends of the hose since it will probably not be used most of the time.

I was playing a little with the gun by simply connecting it to the compressor and I think it may work just fine. The max rating on the pressure is 155PSI and it says that you can run it at 3-3.5 CFM. Fortunately my compressor can do 5 CFM.

I am working on getting the VFD wired today, something that should have been done already but my paying job took precedence this week. :)

Ohhh. And I added the name stickers..:)

[hflwaterski]

Very cool stuff. Nice work as usual.

[TechGladiator]

R.I.P HITACHI X200 VFD

Miguel's VFD, also known as "Hitachi X200", died on the afternoon of Sunday, February 19, in its home in Randolph, NJ. It began having health issues during its installation on Miguel's MechMate. Possible causes of death include incorrect wiring of 3 phase 220VAC into the motor side of things. The VFD and accompanying enclosure shared 43 minutes of glory with the MechMate table. It enjoyed a quick minute of breeze from the cooling fan before the magic smoke came to shine. Viewing hours for a replacement VFD will be Monday afternoon at the eBay.com website. In lieu of flowers, the family requests that donations technical and wiring documentation will be send to my PM box.

YUP, I did it.. I managed to smoke my VFD from just plain STUPIDITY and not reading the manual!!!. I guess sometimes you learn the hard way. Oh well.

While I am waiting for a replacement one, I have a question. I am (will be anyway) running a 5HP 3Phase VFD to connect my Air Cooled 3KW Chinese spindle. What awg wire should I run from the VFD to the spindle? I have 12AWG going to a 20AMP 3 Pole breaker now for VFD.

Thanks in advance

[WTI]

Sorry to hear about your mishap. Too bad Gecko does not make a X200v that could not be killed if mis-wired.

Shielded 4 conductor 14 awg is what we used from the X200 to the spindle.

We had single phase 220v so the x200 manual said 10g wire and 30A breaker.

[TechGladiator]

James; Thanks... It's a lesson learned.. Expensive lesson, but a lesson nonetheless.

What kind of spindle do you have? I think at single phase the X200 can only put out 3HP that's why I am going with the three phase. Also, I am guessing by three phase they mean 110VAC on each phase, right? I mean I have three phases coming into my panel but each phase is 110VAC. From Hot to Hot it's 220V. So I was running 3 hots to the vfd...right?

[bradm]

Sorry to hear about your dead VFD. In order to select the wire gauge, we should translate the HP or KW values into amperage, and then choose the wire gauge to carry that amperage without undue heating.

So, from http://www.cnczone.com/forums/770701-post622.html we glean that
your 3 KW spindle wants about 8 amps.

Checking a good amperage table http://donsnotes.com/home_garden/wire.html we see that somewhere between 20 AWG and 12 AWG is appropriate. You want good flexibility, no heating, and good insulation; a good quality 14 or 16 AWG cable should work well.

Or, as a shortcut, one could reason that 220VAC 3 phase comes in, and 220VAC 3 phase comes out, so if you matched the 12AWG from the input, you'd be fine - and you would, but it would be overkill.

[TechGladiator]

Thanks Brad!.. Very helpful links.

Or, as a shortcut, one could reason that 220VAC 3 phase comes in, and 220VAC 3 phase comes out, so if you matched the 12AWG from the input, you'd be fine - and you would, but it would be overkill.

That last line is what confuses me (Not you). Why do I need lower AWG wire going out than going in? I *think* it's probably the same principle as the wiring at home, I have 14-16awg wire coming into the outlets but my lamp uses 18awg wire.

One last thing. When they talk about 3Phase 220V they mean 3 Hot 110vac going into the VFD, right?

[bradm]

Oh oh -> Miguel, do you actually have 3 phase service? Most residences have single phase service; if the voltage between two hot legs is twice that between a leg and a neutral, you have single phase service. Single phase service arrives as two hots and a neutral; 3 phase (wye) service arrives as three hots and a neutral. See http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090809202958AAKJkjf

I'll assume that you do have single phase service. In that case, you will need to feed two hots, not three to the VFD, and the amperage on each will be around 12 amps. You may also have to move up to a larger VFD, or accept the 3HP (2.2KW) limit. I see that Hitachi doesn't approve it's larger VFDs for single phase input, so you may want to consult with a vendor for their recommendation.

[bradm]

The wire AWG is chosen for the maximum amperage that might come from the source. Since the breakers might feed you up to 20A continuously, and the wire might be buried in a wall where heating would be very bad, the specification is for #12. Since the output of the VFD is limited to a lower amperage (8,10,12 amps or so, depends on the size of VFD and how you configure it), those wires can be a smaller gauge because they'll never see the higher amperages.

[TechGladiator]

Brad.. I am actually installing this at my office/warehouse. We have three phase coming in (I verified this). I already had an outlet with 3 phase + ground wired so I could connect the VFD to it. I have also found out by talking to an electrician that I am not allowed to have an extension cord longer than 3ft running on the ground with 3 hots so I need to get a disconnect box and hard wire the VFD into the disconnect box.

Right now so far what I have is a 3 Pole 30AMP Breaker running into an outlet with NO Neutral. The outlet also has a ground wire.

[TechGladiator]

@Brad: Also, THANK YOU for that yahoo link. That explanation pretty much cleared up all the questions I had about 120/240. I guess here in the USA 220/240 comes into the panel different than the way it comes in Spain(started with electric there)... that's where I was a little confused.

[Gerald D]

If you have 110V live to neutral, and 220V live to live, then you do not have 3-phase.

With true 3-phase, the live to live is about 1.7 times the voltage live to neutral.

[TechGladiator]

@Gerald; I have verified that I have 3 phase. I checked from Hot to neutral and I get 121V, if I go from Hot to Hot I get 209V. I knew I was getting three phase into my breaker box because here in the US they typically will mark the phases with a Black, Red and Blue tape around the cable which I have.

Thanks for the explanation about the 1.7times. I now understand why that is :)..

[bradm]

Ah, that all sounds correct then. "208/120v" is the common description of that 3 phase service in the US, and the black/red/blue is also standard. "120/240 or 110/220" describes a single phase, and thus set off alarm bells for a few minutes.

You should be good to go with your 3 pole 20A breaker into 12AWG into L1,L2,L3 of your X200, with a ground. Then U,V,W out over 16 or 14 AWG (or 12 if you want) to your spindle.

[TechGladiator]

SOME DUST!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8JmE8OFjY4

So I figured while I wait for the new Hitachi VFD that I would at least try the Chinese Spindle I had.. :)...

I now know why you need a Dust Collector!!!...

[KenC]

Congrats! Dust at last!!!
Before I had my dust collector in place, I have think trice before I cut anything...
The dust is worst with MDF, solid wood makes wood chips which are lesser hassle but hassle nevertheless.

[Surfcnc]

Well done Miguel - persistence pays off.
Now on to make lots of different stuff out of lots of different things.
My guess is you are going to learn your new craft very well indeed.

Regards
Ross

[MetalHead]

That's great !! You get #94 !! Nice looking build. I was out for a few days. Glad to see you got the VFD issue fixed !!!

[TechGladiator]

Thanks Mike!!. I am still waiting for the Hitachi VFD but the Chinese one will do until then..

[domino11]

Congrats Miguel! :)

[hflwaterski]

Congratulations!! Very well done!

[danilom]

Good to see that the machine works, did you solve the problems you asked about? Crank up the F (feedrate) in that test file a bit, I see you use good accel and velocity but the Feedrate inside gcode is slow for mdf, it will ruin your nice bit pretty fast if you dont keep him cool

[TechGladiator]

@Danilo: Yes, the settings you recommended helped A LOT!!. Thank you for that. I do have to play with the feedrate a lot more but the MDF is making a complete mess out of my shop so I have to get a dust collector. I was thinking of getting something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shop-Fox-3hp-Cyclone-Dust-Collector-w-Canisters-W1816-New-Box-/150748076767 What do you guys think?

[jhiggins7]

Miguel,

Congratulations on completing your MechMate and earning Serial #94.

Here is the Updated Builder's Log (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AttqjIPMBEXKcExveGc4d3U0V25zQmMyX1U1eUVhU Xc).

Please review your Builder's Log entry and let me know any changes you want to make.

[TechGladiator]

Thanks John!!!!!!!! Feels good having a number.

I just ordered my dust collector. I will have it in a couple of days. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001R23ST0/

[KenC]

Nice price dust collector. :D
If you are serious with good engineering practice, you should have a cyclone at the intake of the dust collector.

[Claudiu]

Really nice table.
Good job!

[TechGladiator]

I have spent a good part of the last week doing a couple major things that I felt were necessary so I didn't have to go back and re-do them in the future. I have wired three different disconnect switches on the wall to handle the MM, Dust Connector and a new machine I am building (secret will be revealed soon, I think it's and awesome machine).

I also ran the 3" PVC pipe overhead from the dust collector to the machine so it would keep things out of the way. One of the things I did which I think it's also pretty cool is I added t 1.5" vacuum hose to the system to be able to vacuum small stuff or even if I want to run a job without the dust shoe I can use the hole. Credits go to Sufcnc (Ross) on this idea. I am waiting for a valve/door/whatever you want to call it to be able to turn off the suction on the 3" pipe when I want to use the smaller hose. OHH and I didn't use your standard vacuum hose (Home depot wanted $32 for a 10ft section), online prices from what I found where not much better (specially with shipping) so I use sump pump pipe 1.5". $9.98 for 24Ft. I figured even if its not the same quality it's 1/6 of the price and after all it's only a hose :)

I received the replacement VFD this week so I will be installing it by the weekend so everything can come together.

[KenC]

Nicely done!
I like the 2nd auxiliary host. Will surely come in handy when clearing the table after each cutting session.

[sailfl]

Miquel,

I have that exact dust collector. I would suggest that you think about using 6" pipe to the dust collector to get the best dust collecting. If you use the 6" metal AC pipe, you also don't have to worry about static or running a ground wire through the PVC pipe.

[TechGladiator]

Nils;

My dust collector came with four 3" intakes. How did you connect 6" pipe?

[bradm]

Take off the input manifold and use a reducer from the big circular opening. Or better, reconstruct the dust collector with a phil thein separator - which you can cut on your mechmate.

[Surfcnc]

Miguel

Your machine can cut the adapter.
When you stop laughing at my drawing skills that is.

13120

Regards
Ross

[TechGladiator]

Ross;

Thank you!!!. I see the light now.. I will try to do those cuts as soon as my new spindle arrives :(... Don't ask... Another electrical accident, and this time the magic smoke didn't stay inside the spindle..

Miguel

[danilom]

Ohh man.... be careful with the electricity :) as it can hurt the spindle it may hurt you. Maybe you should hire some technician just to get you some basic electrical wiring course. It may be cheaper than the new spindle and VFD :)

[TechGladiator]

@Danilo: I actually think the problem had to do with the settings on the VFD :(.. I screwed something up. The wiring was fine since I had it working with the Chinese VFD but once I switched it to the Hitachi X200 all hell broke lose. The VFD spinned for about 2-3 minutes before it started smoking so I am guessing it had to do with the settings..

[TechGladiator]

My son was so happy that he got his name engraved with the machine that he is taking it to school tomorrow to show his class. The whole time the machine was cutting all he could say was "thas sooooo cool", and of course a smile from ear to ear..

The name may actually look a little screwed up but it's actually the font I selected. I wanted it to look different.

[jhiggins7]

Handsome sign ... handsome boy. So cool!:cool:

[KenC]

Good job! (son & sign)
How about a 4" name tag medallion for him. :D

[lunaj76]

Great Job Dad!

[TechGladiator]

Thanks guys!..

@Ken: Metal materials to be cut soon.. :D

I spent most of my day tunning and fixing things on the MM. Not the best of videos but you can see what the end of days results were :). I started the day not being able to cut a circle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWYZOXud72s

[Surfcnc]

Hi Miguel

Expected nothing less from you, straight up the last supper in 3D :D
And I can see those circles you cut on the spoil board too.
You have shown such vigor in your Mechmate construction and remained unfazed by setbacks (I also see the router on the Z slide), it is a credit to you.

Post plenty of videos and photos of your projects as it helps to inspire others.

Regards
Ross

[TechGladiator]

@Ross: Thank You for your kind words. I have to say that it's addictive working on the MM :), Hey, I figured what do I have to lose if the 3D carving didnt work, right? I didnt even have the right bit for it but I thought it came out pretty nice.

I just couldn't see myself waiting a week for my new spindle to arrive so I made a trip to the local hardware store and I bought myself a 1 1/2 HP DeWalt Mini-Router. And I can even change the speed. It's the closest thing to my spindle I could find (12,000-24,000 Adjustable RPMS). I made the mount that I am showing on the pictures as a temporary thing BUT ****WARNING*** I wouldn't recommend anybody making their mount like that as it flexes a little when the router goes at any decent speed/depth.

The material I use for the carving was just plain old 2x8 pine wood used for framing/etc. Not what you would want to use for a carving like that but thats all I had.

[JamesJ]

Great looking MM. I see that your x axis rack is painted but the teeth appear to be free of paint. I am just about to paint my rails and rack and want to leave the rack attached to the rail. I need to keep paint out of the teeth of the rack and my best guess of a way to do this would be to take spare rack and use it to mask the teeth by engaging the teeth of the installed rack with the teeth of a spare rack. The problem is I don't have a spare lenght of rack to use. How did you keep paint out of the teeth of your rack?

[TechGladiator]

Jim; Thank you. I actually used painters tape to cover about 1/8" above the teeth and then over the teeth. After I painted everything with the air gun I removed the painters tape and I used one of those 1" foam brushes you can get at your local hardware store and painted the area under the tape. It looks perfect and I am the only one that know since you cant tell by looking at it.

[JamesJ]

Miguel, thanks I'll give it a try.

[TechGladiator]

After some more adjustments I am creating a prototype mold for a machine I am making.. Let me know what you guys think. I will post more video of the final piece and some pictures


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62LO67lnXLc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg5fPDltW0Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd4407Di7yE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3QwM79loK0

[Surfcnc]

I see you are experimenting with collecting the foam - wise move.:)

Ross

[TechGladiator]

@Ross: Foam can get very messy as I quickly found out :). This week I am getting the acrylic so I can finish the dust shoot.

I am attaching a couple picture of the first try at making the mold for my first prototype. Although it came out fairly nice I think there may be a few things that are setup wrong with the machine. The edges of the mold are far from perfect, I am guessing it either has to do with the bit choice, speed or something not leveled with the machine, Does anybody have any idea as to where I can start looking? One thing that I noticed is that after about 5" or so a pattern would occur at the edge of the mold. I have to look more into this..

This is what I used for my Mach settings

Rough cut
1/4" Flat / Double fluted end mill
200 IPM Feed Rate
40% Step over

Rough cut
1/4" Flat / Double fluted end mill
100 IPM Feed Rate
25% Step over

The material is Insulation Foam..

Lastly, here is another quick video of the finishing pass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPWqA2xm1Jc

[jessyjames]

Is this prototype going to be used for the "car wash, Lube, or Parking"?

Looks good so far :)

[TechGladiator]

James.. Two out of the three :). Thanks..

[Surfcnc]

Hi Miguel

As a challenge try slightly redesigning the door so it is suitable to cut in 2.5D.
I can see the bevel on the "screen" would change but virtually nothing else, then it could be cut far more quickly and accurately with an ordinary flat mill.
The bevel could be also cut if you purchased a 90 degree V bit. With 2.5 D you can also cut your part out of the parent block to finish up.

For an improvement in 3D finishing turn the finish tool path 90 degrees to the roughing tool path.
Also nothing says you can't run several finishing paths using different tools until you end up with what you want

PM me if you are unsure what I'm on about here.

Ross

[KenC]

Step over down to 7~10% & maybe you should look at bullnose bits instead of end mills.

[Regnar]

I have to agree with Ross. A 2.5 would have turned out much better results and probably a little quicker with the machine time.

Is the edge pattern happening along the whole X axis that it is cutting at the time of the pattern or just along the outside edge?

If it is happening along the whole X axis of the cut you will want to check the Y Cars wheels for anything that might be on them. Each revolution of the wheel is around 5 3/4 of an inch along the rails. Something wedged in the wheel will lift the Y car and could produce the results there. The deeper the Z axis the more of the angle will be compounded.

[TechGladiator]

Thank you guys for your feedback. I just received the new spindle from China and will be installing it tomorrow. I found out the project for my burned spindle was that one of the wires inside the spindle connector came lose and shorted the ground wire. Something told me to double check the connections before connecting the new spindle.

I must have a problem somewhere in my configuration. I was cutting some circles over the weekend 1/2", 1/4", 1", etc.. and they all cut smaller than should. My 1/2" circle is actually 0.44", my 1" circle is about 0.92" when measured with a caliper. My configuration is as follows:

--KL34H280-45-8A Motors wired Parallel Bi-Polar
--Boston Gear YA30 (30 Tooth, 20 Pitch)
--3.33:1 Reduction Gears (from Mike)

Based on the spreadsheet from the forums my Steps/Per should be 1414.69 But that's when my measurements get screwed up. I been playing with some numbers and the number that gets it close with some initial testing is 1475 steps/per. I don't really want to keep on guessing number since I am sure there is either a problem somewhere or I am missing something. Does anybody else have this setup?

[Kobus_Joubert]

Why not use the Mach3 CALIBRATION to get it spot on.

[TechGladiator]

@Kobus, I just learned about that 10 minutes ago :). I will check it first thing tomorrow morning. Thank you.

[TechGladiator]

Today I finally had a chance to hook up the Cool Air Gun I bought a while back. I have to say I am pleasantly surprise, more like blown away, how well it works. Although the manual says that it likes to work at 100PSI @ 15 SCFM I was able to run it without a problem at 85 PSI @ 5 SCFM and it cooled perfectly in my opinion. I started by cutting 1/4" acrylic with a 1/8" bit @ 18K RPM without the plastic even melting. The different with and without the cool gun was very noticeable. As as second test I cut 1/8" thick Aluminum with a 1/4" carbide bit and again the bit didn't even begin to get hot. I didn't have the right hose or fittings or filter connected to the system which I will connect tomorrow so I think it can only get better from here. I will also measure how cold the air comes out of the gun but it felt as cold as air coming out of window air conditioner.

Bellow is a quick picture of the air gun, I will take some better shots when the hose is connected properly.

Lastly, the problem with my circles not looking like circles was a combination of "loose" parts:

1) One of the Z-Rail Rollers was not making good contact with the Z-Slide. Barely noticeable but was causing problem.
2) One of the rollers in the Y Axis was dirty with what looked like a piece of dried paint from the rails. It was a nice chunk so I know it was also affecting it.
3) The little lock screw on the Y Axis stepper was a little too long and was touching part of the laser put part(wall) once per revolution.

Thank you to everybody that pointed me to the Mach3 Axis Tunning function. I think this is the best thing since sliced bread :).. After about 15 minutes I had the machine 100% tuned.

[Surfcnc]

OK Miguel

A success. You get the first cold air gun on a Mechmate award (that I know of anyway).
At 18k acrylic is generally melting big time unless the feed rate is really quick.
I do like 12k max for acrylic, polycarbonate and alloy using cheap carbide 2 flute cutters.

Very interested in any information you can pass on about RPM, feed rate and depth of pass with your cold gun and aluminium.

Regards
Ross

[TechGladiator]

Another good day. For some reason I had my Y motor fail on me today but since I had a spare one I was up and running within 30 minutes.

I finally been able to get all the fittings correctly for the Cold Gun and I have to say that it works great. Even with my 5HP compressor it works great. The little smoke you see in the video is from the spill board. Every 5 to 6 minutes there is a little rock of ice that comes out of the gun, it just shows how cold it gets. I will post some pictures of the final cut piece later today.

I had to turn off the video to pause the cut job and remove the middle piece before it could break the bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s0wB9r8O1Q

[TechGladiator]

Here are some pictures of the final plate and installation.

[IN-WondeR]

That looks very very good actually..

What was the plate for???

[TechGladiator]

Kim; Thanks. The plate is to mount a Pneumatic cylinder to a Vacuum Forming machine I am building.

[IN-WondeR]

Cool.

How long was the actual cutting time for the entire plate?

[TechGladiator]

21 Minutes. The plate is 10x10 with 12 3/8" Holes, 2.75" Middle Square and outer Edges.

[IN-WondeR]

That's not bad at all... a bit slower than lasercutting, but still, for DIY then it's actually rather fast when milling...

[zumergido]

whats you spindle power? its the first time i see mm cutting iron. iam not crazy thats iron right?

so now get a bending machine and MM can replicate itself.

[TechGladiator]

@Fernando. Yes, it is iron/steel (Hierro). I have a 3HP air cooled chinese spindle.

[sailfl]

Miguel,

What size and kind of bit did you use?

[bolingerbe]

Now this is very interesting. :)

[zumergido]

wow.. iam amazed.. i was looking the idea of a 1hp spindle.. not any more.
soft materials.. aluminum and not ferrous, now steel. the working posibilities are too wide.
please give us more specs about the cutting.
speed mm/min , spindle speed, i see you using reductions.
bit specs.
you cooling using cool air. liquid can be use but you need a container to not ruin the spoiler mdf base.

Gracias Miguel

[TechGladiator]

@Nils; For that video I was using a Onsrud 57-281. It's 1/4" Double Fluted Carbide Bit. Picked it up on ebay for $7

Cutting Edge Diameter: .250"
Cutting Edge Length: .875"
Shank Diameter: .250"
Overall Tool Length: 2.500"
Tool Material: Solid Carbide
Number of Cutting Edges: 2
Helix: Downcut Righthand Rotation

[TechGladiator]

@Fernando;

When cutting the steel here were my settings

Spindle Speed: 9000rpm (200Hz on the VFD)
Belt Reduction: 3.33:1
Speed: 10% of my 'Normal Speed(450ipm)' or 45ipm for this cut(I incorrectly stated this yesterday)
Acceleration: 25in/sec
Downward Rate: 0.05
Cool Air Gun: Exair Cold Gun 5215

[IN-WondeR]

Iincredible that you can use the onsrud 57-281 for steel.

It's normally for wood...

Was it dull after the completion of one plate??

[TechGladiator]

@Kim; I know it's probably crazy but I didn't even pay attention to the "Wood" specification part of it. The bit is carbide so I figured it should work. I have read in the forums that when asking for a bit most distributors/resellers wont know the material type so I figured it was worth a shot. The bit is not dull at all. I checked the machine first thing this morning after cutting that plate and the bit still as sharp as when I first bought it. It still razor sharp!.. Which I was impressed..

[KenC]

wow, .05" (1.27mm) depth at 45ipm (1143mm/sec) that is aggressive! did you observe what is thr highest spindle current drawn?

You really need to be careful not to plunge your bit too fast or it will chew up your spindle bearings. They are expensive to replace. I found out the expensive way...

[IN-WondeR]

Ken C

u might want to revise the feedrate a bit. It's 45 inches a minute, not 450 inches a minute. :)

And the plunge rate is 0.05@ not the cut depth.. I counted 14-16 runs to go through 1/4" of material. So it's not that aggresive at all...

[KenC]

My bad. :o
45in/min... = 19.05mm/second.
That is actually slower then what I did, 25mm/sec.
The difference is I use HSS end mill bits at 2000rpm. with ample of kerosene applied with a small brush.
& I hate cleaning up the steel chips...

[Surfcnc]

Me too :)

Ross

[Metalsmith]

just finished this whole thread in one sitting.....things are getting clearer !

[sailfl]

Miguel,

Would you please give me some details on the compressor you are using with your cold air gun?

HP and tank size.

Thanks

[jeep534]

Miguel,
Thank you for shearing. The 3 minute or so video has been a huge sorce of inspiration and motivation for me. I have had the plans for 10 years (when they were free lol) I have had them printed out on 11X17 paper for at least 2 so I am starting on the Y car soon (I have a quote for some of the laser cut parts) The balance of the "laser cut parts" I am going to cut on a friend's cnc plasma.

Thanks again
archie

[jhiggins7]

Hey Archie, glad to see you posting about your build. I'm anxious to see how your "laser cut parts" experience goes.

[jeep534]

I am more intrigued with the cutting and milling of the rails.

archie

[Robert M]

With all respect to yall, com-on guys, since Miguel has kinda disappear (MIA) for about 6yrs, I'd wouldn't expect "much" a reply :p

NILS.....Look here : Exair prod (http://www.exair.com/index.php/products/vortex-tubes-and-spot-cooling-products/mini-cooler.html)