Spindle and vfd cheaper than I can get a decent router

[jwt]

http://cgi.ebay.ie/WATER-COOLE-MOTOR-SPINDLE-2-2KW-AND-MATCHING-INVERTER-/390214657596?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ada9b263c


268 euro plus shipping gets it to my door for 360 euro

This is cheaper than I can buy any router either fixed or plunging with similar HP

But given that the 3kw is 100 euro more expensive any advantage of the 3kw over 2.2?

well ok, bigger is better but would the extra .8kw be worth the extra 100 euro?

John

[bradm]

John, I would check on the power requirements to drive the 3kw. Here in the U.S., it steps you up a circuit breaker size and a wire gauge, so the extra cost might not stop at 100 euro. I don't know enough about your power system in Ireland to assess this, though. The 2.2kw is nice and powerful.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Now THAT is cheap.... Wish I did not live on the other side of the world.

[jwt]

@bradm Good point, hadn't thought of that, Irish electricity is 220v single phase, neutral is more or less 0V/Earth and live (hot) is 220V 50Hz and nearly nuclear free as our green party wants all electrons we import from the UK to be non nuclear generated electrons. I kid you not.*


So ignoring vfd losses, impedance versus resistance power factor etc etc etc 2,2kw is 10A and 3kw is over 16A which puts you in to different category of plugs, RCBs etc.

Thanks would never have considered that and then spent a few days kicking myself.

@Kobus that price included delivery from China to Ireland which is roughly half way around the world. :) 99US dollars seems to get it delivered any where.


John

* Note a TD is and elected representative similar to a UK MP or US deputy but ours are so fantastically good we pay them over 100,000 Euro per annum.**



In response to a question by Labour TD Willie Penrose, Mr Ryan said such a prohibition would be in breach of Article 28 of the EC treaty, which prohibits restrictions on imports. "I am therefore advised that a prohibition on the importation of electricity generated with the use of nuclear energy would be highly unlikely to have a legal justification, even if it were technically feasible."

Mr Ryan continued: "My advice is that it is not technically possible to guarantee that electricity imported over an interconnector is not generated from nuclear sources, as it is not physically possible to prevent the flow of nuclear-generated electricity on to the network."

He got the advice after asking was it possible :rolleyes:

**http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/politics/tds-v-mps-33-less-work-for-20-more-pay-129366.html

[hennie]

Kobus can that other thought during the week lets get some spindles.My ears can`t hold the noise any more ( sounds like my wife when I am in trouble, loud and constant ).:)

[smreish]

Hennie,
I would check the dB rating on the spindle (if you can) before purchase. The noise on some of the air cooled spindles can be just as loud as the router your using.

*my gut feeling is the spindle will be about 25db lower than the router* Thats my opinion and I have no imperical or clinical data to back that up! (just trying to head off those emails) ;)

[KenC]

Ear plugs!!!

[Kobus_Joubert]

These are water cooled. I see on his webside he has an offer for 2 spindles with 2 drives....wonder if postage will still be $99 for that set? Let me drop them an e-mail.

[hennie]

Ask for pensioners discount.:D

[Kobus_Joubert]

Nou soek jy moeilikheid LAATIE ....:D

[smreish]

Natuurlik, water afgekoel - ek sal dink ek sal terug te gaan na drink nou.

...And that's about all I know in Afrikans :)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Ha ha very good.

[smreish]

Gute Nacht er Kobus.

[Kobus_Joubert]

Lekker slaap Sean

[chrisd7306]

I have just gone down this path and I am not very happy with this product especially from this seller. They are happy to help you to a point but when the VFD or the spindle needs to be replaced under warranty, you will not get a reply, you are just ignored. The guarantee is not worth the paper it is written on.
Go across to cnczone, do a search on problems with chinese spindle or chinese VFD and do some homework on what other problems people have encounted with these units.

The VFD is extremely noisy, from an electrical interference point of view and quite often parts are missing off the boards eg rs485 chip which allows you to communicate between Mach3 and the VFD is regularly missing (this is if you want to control the speed of the spindle from the software eg using Matty Zee free plug-in) or poorly assembled components on boards.

After having gone through all these hassles, I have taken the path of getting a good quality VFD from Hitachi, the X200 (or SJ200) which has plenty of good quality documentation (in english and no guess work on parameter settings!!!), really good backup - parts and experience in setting up, from Hitachi and other forums and it is a professional unit that is very well built.
Another manufacturer worth looking at is Delta Electronics. If I remember some people in this forum are using their VFDs.

Sure, it is going to cost a bit more but the quality and the lack of problems with the unit and the provider, it is worth the cost and effort, at least for me!!!

The largest VFD unit you can get from Hitachi for a single phase input in the 200V (200 - 240V) class is 2.2kW.

I am using the chinese 2.2 kW water cooled spindle for the moment and it seems to be alright but for how long, I don't know.

Some people have not had problems with the spindle and the VFD, they are lucky, but the vast majority of buyers are having problems. The longevity of these units are also question.

Do some homework before you make a commitment to buy, it is well worth it - save yourself a lot of hassles and wasted effort into trying to getting something that is second rate to work.

[bradm]

Chris, thanks for reminding us of that. I bought my chinese spindle and my X200 separately.

[chrisd7306]

Correction : largest 200V class Hitachi VFD is 7.5kW not 2.2 kW.

[KenC]

This might not be the best place to bring this up, but is there much advantage to have a high power spindle such as 7.5kW (10hp)? such as deeper cut, faster feed?

[Kenrbass]

Every time I increase something on mine, it brings out other areas that need work.

Get a bigger spindle, the gantry may need some extra suupport, or your vac hold down systme can't hold the parts.

It's kind of a never ending quest for me.

With that said, I think that is overkill for this size machine. 4kw (5 hp) should be plenty. I see a bigger one on ebay now and then, but I only think about it for a little bit. lol

The other Ken

[jwt]

Fair point Chris.

To be honest at that price I was expecting to use it as a glorified 2.2kw router. The fact it's water cooled is a bonus, the vfd purely as a power supply for the spindle..

If I get comms to a computer excellent, if not fine.

I can buy two of these for the price i will pay here for an equivalent power router.

I've been trying to access cnczone but the site seems to be having issues.


Think I'll sleep on it and decide tomorrow



John

[javeria]

Delta VFD's are cheap - I can get a 2.2KW @ INR13700 here in India, grab one to go along with the Asian spindle and you are on!

and it works on single phase 220V AC supply!

[jwt]

Quick update, mailed the seller and response as follows.


Dear ..........,

Yes, this VFD includes an RS-485 interface for connection to computer
After you pay for the item, please email us you wantt the RS-485 function modal VFD. then we will send this modal VFD to you.

This item is the top-quantity. So during two years warranty time, mostly it will not have any problem. If it has the problem, we will send you the replacement to replace it. Mostly it will be resolve. Finally, if the problem still can not be resolved, then we will send you a new one and then you send back the problem one.

- ..............

Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply
Respond


From:
To: ..........
Subject: ............ has sent a question about item #390214657596, ending on Oct-27-10 21:26:10 PDT - WATER-COOLE MOTOR SPINDLE 2.2KW AND MATCHING INVERTER
Sent Date: 2010-10-10 23??25?14?



Dear .........,

Hi does the VFD include an RS-485 interface for connection to computer.

What is the warranty on this item.


John

[tpworks]

Misleading info on those "Germany Imported Bearings" a chinese company.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/113802-chinese_spindle_germany_bearing_mystery_solved.htm l

[jwt]

Reminds me of Japanese stuff in the 50s and 60s.

Everyone thought Japanese stuff was dire so they manufactured the stuff in an industrial area deliberately called USA. :)

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/CTGY/FullCeramicBearings
I can pop these lads in and still be ahead.

Hell, I can buy 5 spindles and just treat them as disposable.

I work with composites and fibreglass. Belt sanders and grinders from Dewalt, Makita etc last about 4 months due to the harsh abrasive qualities of fibreglass dust, the bearings last no time.

My local diy shop sells ROK chinese nasty cheap belt sanders and grinders for 1/10th of the price of "proper" tools.

They last 2 months so I get 20 months of use out of the same price as the expensive stuff. So cheap and nasty is not always uneconomical.

In my case I use the Chinese stuff for rough work and keep the DeWalt for finer finishes where I need a better "touch". And clean it religiously. Which costs time and money.