A dangerous (stupid?) thing to do . . . .

[Gerald D]

This (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jhFDC9MWFjgexF4a8lJct9qRiIHwD9HUGNT01) news story makes me shake my head:

A New Hampshire high school student shocked so severely in shop class that his heart stopped beating is suing his teacher, the school district and the city of Dover.

Kyle Dubois and his parents claim teacher Thomas Kelley did not warn Dubois and other students of the dangers of the electrical demonstration cords in their electrical trades class.

On March 11, Dubois attached an electrical clamp to one nipple while another student attached another clamp to the other. A third student plugged in the cord.

Dubois was critically injured.

The New Hampshire Union Leader says Dubois' suit contends he suffered permanent brain damage.

Kelley resigned from his teaching position about a month after the incident. He declined to comment on the lawsuit.

To what extent should MechMate builders be warned that they are embarking on something that can be rather dangerous? Handling heavy weights, electricity, fast & sharp cutters, powerful movement that could pinch body parts . . . . . .

[Red_boards]

You mean I shouldn't test my power supply is working by touching the wires to my tongue? I'll do it really quickly!

Gerald,
It's a sad world where people such as yourself and Mike have to concern yourselves with the effects of people's stupidity.
I guess the only defence is to get some legal input on the disclaimers and to provide evidence of due diligence to avoid such situations arising.
I'd think that the ready responses in the forum provide evidence that people are being helped where they have questions. But MechMate people are working in unsupervised environments, and there is no responsibility for the forum owners or participants to provide supervision. This is in contrast to the above situation where the teacher had a duty of care for students.

[domino11]

I think the brain damage he is claiming existed before the accident. :eek::rolleyes:

[rayditutto]

On the surface while it might seem like the kid is a candidate for a Darwin award the facts reported are slim and there are some issues to consider.

the reported claims in the lawsuit seem to revolve around whether or not the teacher (the one person in authority in the classroom setting)
a) enticed the student to shock himself
b) maintained adequate supervision of the classroom

i expect that all parties in the case believe it was a stupid thing to do

my impression of the Mechmate site is that:
a) there is not an expectation of having a single person in authority maintaining order rather that it is a community of open minds and open discussion
b) there are any number of cautionary tales in and among the discussions
c) no one is enticing anyone to do "stupid things"

btw, my dad taught high school electricity/electronics and it wasn't easy at times

cheers

[Gerald D]

There is indeed more (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/northeast/view/20100831student_who_shocked_himself_suing_school_t eacher/srvc=home&position=6) to this story, thanks Robin.

[PEU]

Its easy to think when you are an adult as we are.

I went to technical high school, not sure if there is such a thing in USA, my degree was electronic technician, and as a student we did a lot of stupid things at the shop classes, one of them was to charge a 5ufx250v capacitor at the power outlet and leave i unattended on the workbench, sometimes in plain view, sometimes hidden... :D

I don't recall doing such an extreme prank as the OP, extreme sounds bad, I should say ridiculously retarded... but I repeat, we did a lot of pranks, youngsters...

[sailfl]

Yea, but today, at least here - USA, we live in a world of, "I am not responsible for any thing I do" and "some one should pay even if I made the mistake" thinking.

[MetalHead]

We have trade schools and shop classes in high schools here. I went to one and took Drafting Classes. It had the whole spectrum of wood, electrical, electronic, masonry and auto classes.

My instructor was like a dictator. If you even held a pencil wrong there where consequences.

So I think the kid in that situation will get some compensation for what happened. The sad part is he was stupid enough to do it. But the even worse part is that the treacher seemed to be letting them do it.

Kids will be kids, but in those areas the teachers have to rule with an iron fist and teach safety. I am sure kids that went through that class in years before have taken the antics on to real world jobs and will be putting others at risk for years to come.

On this forum, Safety is your responsibilty and knowing that is up to you.

[Gerald D]

At school, I was in the metalwork glass, where we had oxygen bottles for welding. Once, another kid was sent over from the science glass with a covered glass and asked our teacher for some oxygen so that they could do this experiment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGEc6wMedDE) (without having to make their own oxygen first).

My teacher then calls me to take the beaker to the shop to go and fill it, and as he hands me the beaker he whispered "add a bit of acetylene".

5 minutes later the science teacher cames over with a big grin and says he will supervise the refilling this time!

[KenC]

Lmao!!!

[domino11]

I had a teacher like that once too. :)

[Alan_c]

On the subject of stupid lawsuits here (http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/26939/more-details-on-the-carlos-osorio-tablesaw-lawsuit) is one about a guy who injured himself operating a tablesaw without a rip fence, riving knife (splitter) or blade guard. He subsequently sued Ryobi for not having skin sensing technology (currently only available on SawStop machines)and won a huge $1.5 million comp. This case has potentially huge consequences for tool manufacturers and possibly people like us. Our systems dont have all the safety features built into the big iron machines so what does that open us up to? Are we going to have to add perimeter fencing, pressure pads in front of the machine, interlocks on the tool change mechanism etc etc...???

[smreish]

...What?! The court couldn't prove how negligent the user was? The owner's manual clearly states the tool use and such.

Now I know why product liability insurance is almost as much as workers comp.

Once again - the fortunate and smart have to pay for the dumb and lazy.

[Leko]

what about us smart, lazy types?

[KenC]

what about us smart, lazy types?

Won't get ripe-off for paying for stuff that we don't need & keep our limps attached at the same time. ;)

[quadtech]

If only lawyers used their creativity for better things.
Here's an interesting WSJ story - New Breed of Patent Claim

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703467004575463843289453872.html

[Gerald D]

I agree that people making false patent claims should be obliged to desist.

[PEU]

unless you are Disney and want to keep profiting exclusively of copyrighted work after more than 50 years...

[lumberjack_jeff]

American high schools are abandoning their shop and vocational programs for just this reason - liability.

I recently read a really fascinating book tangentially related to this issue named "Shop Class as Soulcraft". The premise is essentially that americans have lost their ability to relate to stuff.

Frankly, watching the really brilliant hacking done here by this worldwide (and often resource-constrained) group gives credence.

http://www.amazon.com/Matthew-Crawford-Class-Soulcraft-Inquiry/dp/B0030IIIF8/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283747645&sr=1-2

[edgey]

Just when you think it's idiot proof they build a better idiot!!!

[Greg J]

Just when you think it's idiot proof they build a better idiot!!!

Edgey

I gonna use that one from time to time. :)

My wife just chimed in about this one,

"I would love to help, but I can't fix stupid."

[PEU]

Never argue with stupids, they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience :)

[hennie]

And there is no pills to fix it:)