PDA

View Full Version : Do my legs look fat? - Brisbane Australia


tangocharlie123
Tue 08 June 2010, 06:30
Hi all My name is Peter,
I Live in the southern part of Brisbane Australia.
I have an Idea of what I want to do but first a lot of lurking and reading of plans forums and playing with different software packages. Too much time on my hands. I will soon start the build of a new fiberglass ultralight plane.

Will have a lot of questions as we go.

best of luck

Peter

sailfl
Tue 08 June 2010, 08:09
Peter,

Build the MeckMate first. You can make your own parts and molds.

tangocharlie123
Tue 08 June 2010, 09:31
Just a bit more about myself

I am a chef who travels a lot, Gordon Ramsay I am not but do the same sort of Job (trouble shooting kitchens)

i am 45 single and the reason I have so much time is I can be awake for 18+ hours per day studying something.

Flying is a hobby and a mode of transport to and from work. need for a faster plane but have always been intruiged about the how does it work side of things.

Salifi that was /is the plan, the head of finances will allow both toys.

Cheers
Peter

domino11
Tue 08 June 2010, 11:04
Welcome Peter!

Besser
Tue 08 June 2010, 20:53
Pete, you are not alone! There are some good guys near who are building MM's

MM is a door to new possibilities, get building. Building jigs for your plane will be so much easier and precise with a MM.

Now enough talking and back to work

tangocharlie123
Fri 11 June 2010, 07:11
Thanks Guys

Looking at a flat panel design of plane just imputting all into cad then will learn how to get code out.

now back to reading.

tangocharlie123
Thu 08 July 2010, 12:16
Hi Everyone

After reading the plans and forum I have a Bom based on what Ausmaddog has done.

I have decided on a 2440 x 1220 machine

75 x 75 x 3mm Box = 6 @ 720mm (legs)
50 x 50 x 3mm Box = 6 @ 1500mm (Y axis top & bottom cross rails)
50 x 50 x 3mm Box = 4 @ 1025mm (X axis bottom side rails)
50 x 50 x 3mm Box = 4 @ 1090mm (X axis diagonal braces)
50 x 50 x 3mm Box = 6 @ 720mm (Y axis diagonal braces)

76 x 38mm PFC = 8 @ 1640mm (Y axis cross supports)
200 x 75mm PFC = 2 @ 3040mm (X axis main beams)

65 x 50 x 6mm Angle = 2 @ 3380mm (X axis v rails)
65 x 50 x 6mm Angle = 2 @ 2080mm (y axis v rails)
20 x 6mm Flat bar = 2 @ 1670mm (y Rail Clamp Strips)
100 x 50 x 3mm Box = 2 @ 1720mm (Y axis gantry rails)

Does the above seem right
Tony had for the Y axis Gantry rails a length as 1770 but I cannot find a reference to this in the plans ie y+500.

Another question is does the support board have to be bigger than the size board to be cut or is it the same size.

Back to reading and doing the bolt BOM
with thanks
Peter

tangocharlie123
Fri 09 July 2010, 06:27
Would these be good as a starting point

http://ausxmods.com.au/stepper-motors/640-oz-in-nema-34-stepper-motor

This gent also has Gekos at a reasonable price
I was thinking of a G540 as a starting point then move upto the 203v's at a later date..

A lot of reading today but a lot of info found out.

Cheers
Peter

AuS MaDDoG
Fri 09 July 2010, 17:47
Hi Pete,

Welcome to the forum and good luck with the build!!
Re:- my gantry beams I ordered them 50mm longer so that I could then cut them to size myself later. I should get someone to edit that in my thread post as I have had a couple of people ask that same question:D

Cheers
Tony.

MetalHead
Fri 09 July 2010, 18:28
Tony sent you a PM to check out an update.
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=28845&postcount=15

tangocharlie123
Fri 30 July 2010, 19:27
Finnaly took the plunge and ordered the,
Bob, Gecko 203v's, Power supplies (linear of course), fans, estops, pushbuttons, work trolley ($50 on ebay), and are ready for the nuts and bolts and just about to place the order for the racks, pinion gears and spindle.

Steel order has been quoted. Have decided to go for uncut as my workshop will be setup to take the longer lengths. Saving here has allowed me to get the cold cut saw.

Have a question about bolts if someone can answer for me.

Which is more used Zinc plated or Black. Would the black HT steel bolts show signs of rusting after a while. Is the zinc only for show or does it serve a purpose.

With Thanks
Peter

AuS MaDDoG
Tue 03 August 2010, 04:52
Hi Pete,

Sounds like your getting along like a house on fire with your collection of tools and parts:D
With regards to bolts I asked a similar question sometime ago and zinc are fine!! just make sure you get the better qaulity ones not the cheepies;)

Cheers
Tony.

smreish
Tue 03 August 2010, 05:05
...just try to stay away from stainless, it tends to gall and cause more headaches than it's worth.

tangocharlie123
Fri 17 September 2010, 23:48
Well the electronics arrived and have finnaly got around to setting up the kitchen table.

10331
All the Gecko 203v's lined up attached to 3mm alum plate
Motors turning just to tune them better.
All sheilded cables grounded to earth on Alum plate.
Homann MB-02 BoB.

10332
2 x 48 volt linear power supplies. 1x 5 volt supply
Just running power direct at the moment ie hobbyist setup, I will get the din rail etc soon.

10333
Just getting different wiring sorted best to check before I mount them permantley.

10334
Homann Bob fairly easy to wire up. Went for this as a starter it's local with good support and about 1/3 cheaper than the PDMX-122

Now the learning can start.

Pete

ps This is the Kitchen project

10335

KenC
Sat 18 September 2010, 02:42
Hey, My bench drill looks exactly like yours!
Good progress! wish you a fantastic journey.

Quadro
Sat 18 September 2010, 04:12
Well done Peter, You have a good supply of 'rags' hanging in the last photo, if your hands get dirty.:D

AuS MaDDoG
Sat 18 September 2010, 06:54
Keep it up Pete!!

Good work, and looking sweet as!!

Cheers
Tony.

tangocharlie123
Sun 12 December 2010, 19:30
Since the last posting 3 months ago (darn work) My Hitatchi SJ200 series Inverter had arrived.

Thanks to Woody in the US. for purchasing this I managed to get the better version at a cheaper cost than Direct from Drive wharehouse.

Again lots of reading over christmas to get this going with the BoB.

Wishing everyone Seasons Greetings.

Peter

tangocharlie123
Thu 27 January 2011, 23:25
My 2.2kw spindle and 24 ER20 collets has arrived as well as a
12 volt power supply for homing, E-stops etc.
Homman Modio board talk to the VFD
1 proximity switch (just for practice of wiring.)
Also acquired two contactors both Telemechanique LC1D12. Just need to check whether these are suitable if any one has an opinion if they are good or bad.
No drama's if they are bad they fell off the preverbal wall.


These are the specs for them.

http://www.sungko.com/Product/AC-Contactors/LC1-D12-AC-Contactor.html

Photo's to come when I get home.

Cheers
Pete

tangocharlie123
Thu 07 April 2011, 15:33
Look what turned up yesterday also I got thrown out of the kitchen and dining room. Now I have a large workshop under the house.
The Steel also arrived yesterday will update with photo's later.
Off to start cutting and stored away awaiting welding.

Cheers
Pete

AuS MaDDoG
Fri 08 April 2011, 04:25
Hi Pete,

You will not be disappointed with the metal saw, exactly the same as mine. Makes easy work cutting all that steel.

Cheers
Tony.

cleyte
Fri 08 April 2011, 05:21
Hi Pete and Tony,

I also purchased a metal saw and was quite pleased initially. I found it cut the angle and the light tubing (1/8" wall) with ease. I then proceeded to cut the 3" c-channel cross members at approx. 20 degrees as recommended for esthetics. The 16 cuts took its toll on my blade and it now struggles to cut anything. I will have to get it sharpened or replace the blade at more than $100.

Clayton

jhiggins7
Fri 08 April 2011, 06:24
Clayton,

Which metal cutting saw did you purchase? I cut 8" Channel with my Mikita circular saw (shown here (http://mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21723&postcount=59)) with no problems. My Mikita (with original blade) is still going strong after two years and literally hundreds of cuts.

cleyte
Fri 08 April 2011, 07:47
Hi John,

I purchased mine at Princess Auto - $300. The tool itself is fine but I believe the blade is of poor quality - it is a "no name" blade. I probably made 50 cuts total. When I purchase a replacement blade, it will be a brand like Makita, Milwaukee or Freud.

Clayton

melissa
Fri 08 April 2011, 10:00
I have the same 14" saw from Princess Auto. I did one angled cut on the cross-bearers, which it struggled with. I did the rest of the angled cuts with my handheld Steelmax saw instead.

I think the saws have difficulty when there's a long horizontal part to cut through. If the part to cut is vertical, they work great.

jasoncarter
Fri 08 April 2011, 10:47
I bought a Milwaukee 6190-20 several years ago and the blade gave about the same service. After the second $150 blade gave the same service I was getting a bit disgusted with it. The third blade I bought was a MK Morse. It was about the same price but has lasted 3 times as many cuts as the others and is still going. You have to be careful and let the blade cool when you are cutting thicker stuff (1/4"). The way you clamp the material is important too. Dewalt put out a video a while back showing you how but I can't seem to find it right now.

cleyte
Fri 08 April 2011, 19:07
FYI

I just ordered a replacement blade for my dry cut saw. After some extensive searching I found the Freud blade at Cripe Distributing selling for $40. The same blade on Ebay is selling for no less than $84.

http://www.cripedistributing.com/freud-diablo-steel-demon-ferrous-metal-blade-p-1467.html

jhiggins7
Fri 08 April 2011, 19:19
Hey Clayton, that looks like a great deal. Let us know how it performs.

tangocharlie123
Sat 09 April 2011, 00:57
This Arrived on Thursday night

11509 11510


and by Friday night this is what it looked like.

11511

Thanks everyone for the encouraging words.

Now back to it.

And yes the 200PFC is missing had to delay it by 5 days it should be here on Tuesday one 9mt length.

Cheers
Pete

aussie_mick
Sat 09 April 2011, 02:07
Pete

Keep the updates coming.

After many months of deliberating I have decided to make the MM. I have followed your posts as well as others and am about to start getting my Steel.

Mick

Kobus_Joubert
Sat 09 April 2011, 12:14
Hi Pete,

In post #19 ... My 2.2kw spindle and 24 ER20 collets has arrived....


where did you buy your spindle ? If it was on eBay..did you get different size ER-20 collects with or do you have to order them seperately. What sizes did you get ?

danilom
Sat 09 April 2011, 15:31
If the shipping is not too high I use these collets and they seem nice quality for the price
http://www.sorotec.de/shop/index.php/cat/c132_ER-Sets-and-Accessories.html

Kobus_Joubert
Sun 10 April 2011, 00:08
Thank's Danilo...wil check them out as well.

tangocharlie123
Sun 10 April 2011, 16:20
Hi Kobus

When I ordered my spindle I ordered seperatley, 24 collets in .5mm increments
The collets averaged about $4.50 ea Au

Compared to Love happy shopping it worked out a bit more expensive than I wanted .

The spindle is a 4 pin version not 3 it looks like a Kelling inc one as this was the only version I could find a wiring diagram for.

Most of the Asian vendors would be able to get the same collets, as AusMadDog's and Skippys are in the same box.

Cheers
Pete

Kobus_Joubert
Mon 11 April 2011, 05:52
Thank's Pete. Will check all my options. I am leaning more towards the 3kW air cooled spindle at the moment....just afraid I forget to check the water level on the water cooled jobbies. I saw a 3kW air cooled spindle this weekend and it is a lot quiter than my current router.

tangocharlie123
Mon 11 April 2011, 23:19
Today the 200x75x9mt PFC arrived and I had to pack it into the garage.


11552

The truck driver put here.

11551

Its a bugger moving and turning it over.

11550 11554

Had to cut it to get the door shut.

Cheers
Pete

tangocharlie123
Mon 11 April 2011, 23:26
Can some one help with the Gantry i think I made it a bit big..:D

11556

AuS MaDDoG
Tue 12 April 2011, 04:52
Hi Pete,

Starting to move along now mate !! Keep up the good work and keep them pics coming.

Cheers
Tony.

Surfcnc
Wed 13 April 2011, 03:27
Smart lift there Pete of the PFC and lots of cut bits of steel too.
Nice to see some progress but that ain't no gantry !!

Regards
Ross

skippy
Wed 13 April 2011, 06:31
No it's a trailer:D

Regards

Skippy

tangocharlie123
Wed 13 April 2011, 13:04
Skippy your right it's a trailer that we talked about 8x2.5mt
Thought it would be good welding practice before the MechMate.
It should be finished within the week so then onto the machine.

Now back to being serious
Cheers
Pete

Surfcnc
Wed 13 April 2011, 18:42
So it won't be hauling gravel judging by the section size.
Also not shopping center carpark friendly at those overall dimensions but who am I to judge your driving skill :D

regards
Ross

tangocharlie123
Thu 14 April 2011, 22:54
Hi Guys

I'm no judge of distance so I would watch out if I find you in a shopping centre carpark with that thing.

The only rocks are the ones in my head for building such a beast.

But it is at the end of the day MechMate related as you will see down the build line.

Cheers
Pete

tangocharlie123
Tue 10 May 2011, 23:39
Working on the MechMate today just finishing up the cutting.

I'm no Engineer so can somebody please tell me if A or B is stronger or is it only for Asthetics. This is for the Y Axis


A.....
11747

B.....
11748

Thanks to Rick Nixon in Melbourne I now have the laser cut parts. Dad picked them up before Easter also Rick showed him around his MechMate. A big thanks

Now he has a better understanding of what I am building.

Ordered the Bearings from Rick at Superior Bearings so should be here in the next week.
Also ordered the teflon washers from JamesJ in the US.

11746
Photo of 1 panel of X Axis framing this is 4 panels long
Cheers
Pete

AuS MaDDoG
Wed 11 May 2011, 01:54
Hi Pete,

My preference would be for "A" Just make sure you leave enough room in the corners to allow for welding access. Doing the bracing this way also allows you to store board offcuts under the table.
Good to see you getting well and truly underway with your build, if your around town drop in and say gidday. I'm going to be home for the next week or two.

Looks like your thread should be moved to started building but not yet cutting ;-)

Cheers
Tony.

Surfcnc
Wed 11 May 2011, 02:01
Hi Pete

A diagonal brace is strong because it forms a triangle, transfers load from one place to another and prevents the structure from racking.
The forces the braces control can be compressive, in tension or as in the MM probably a rapidly changing mix of both tension and compression.
If you look closely at your design only two "perfect" triangles exist in each option.
The choice for you under your existing options is do you wish to have the greatest resistance to racking at the top of the panel or the bottom, rather than what is stronger.

I will draw your attention to Plan No. 10 10 100, as the original MM plans use your option A on the Y axis.
With respect to your X axis bracing if have the material you might want to do something roughly similar bracing from the top of the middle leg to the bottom corner of the table base.

Soooo option A allows you to more easily slide a compressor, box or what ever under the table while Option B does not !!
Not the answer you were expecting but an answer none the less.

Regards
Ross

tangocharlie123
Wed 11 May 2011, 18:14
Thanks for your input Tony and Ross

Ross is this what you meant and I was already leaning towards option A.
I hadn't cut the braces for the Y axis yet so the ones i had cut for the x axis will swap staright over.

11749

Cheers
Pete

Surfcnc
Wed 11 May 2011, 18:40
Four legs on the X axis !! - I was only factoring in three as I can't read properly :)
Must be a long bed you are planning there.

The drawing you have provided is going to be very strong and a significant upgrade from the standard MM plans.
Have another look at 10 10 100 for the X axis bracing on Gerald's original plan and you will see that you have another two legs and an additional central "X" brace.
Given this comparison your proposed design must be strong and rigid enough given the successful operation of Geralds machines.

You could probably get away with just one diagonal brace in the center as you get your triangle with one less piece of steel, but it may not look as balanced as your drawing does.
At this point you are now down to matters of aesthetics rather than strength.


Regards
Ross

melissa
Wed 11 May 2011, 20:42
Waitaminute here...

Your X is 2440mm and you're planning on four legs??? My X is 5100mm and I've got three legs on each side. In hindsight, I would have only installed two legs per Gerald's design.

What I found with six legs in total is that it was a right pain to level the table, adjusting the feet hither and yon. Eight legs would be downright frustrating.

Trust The Plans :)

tangocharlie123
Wed 11 May 2011, 21:04
Sorry Michelg

You are right I forgot to ugrade my dimensions.

The X axis is now 4500mm long and the machine will be moved a fair bit so for rigidity 4 legs also will require a few more wheels looking at an external leveling system. The trailer has been designed to take the loads under each wheel. Also after talking to AusMadDog I decided to include room at the end for an indexer 1200mm on the Y axis.

The board cutting size will remain the same. My plan is to have two soft stop limits and one stopper block each side. ie jog past the first soft limit to access the indexer and have the second soft limit and the stopper.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Cheers
Pete

Surfcnc
Wed 11 May 2011, 23:21
Pete, Michel is right, eight legs will be really tiresome to level.
What you will probably find yourself doing is to set the corners and then to "just" :D wind the middle ones into place.

I appreciate that the forces you are dealing with are both unknown and unmeasured, therefore the inclination is to adopt the more is better solution.
However designing by feel typically says more about the designer than the actual task at hand.

As a reference back to a known working solution on the MM plans...
The original MM plans span around 2m using a 200mm PFC, even a six leg design on a 4.5m table spans less than that at around 1.65m.
Additionally you have used a variation of the Matty Zee design as per the Aus Maddog build, that has much larger steel sections than the original plans.

Something to think about !

Regards
Ross

Surfcnc
Wed 11 May 2011, 23:24
Pete, a further issue

It is very hard to assist you if some of your plans, ie the trailer remain undetailed.

Regards
Ross

danilom
Wed 11 May 2011, 23:35
My friends 5000mm long table was made also with 4 legs on each side (you cant explain to some welders that it does not need 4) because they put additional 2 to their own liking. Table was assembled and we put leveling feet on only 4 corners and it works that way, you just don't need so many legs if proper bracing is used.

KenC
Thu 12 May 2011, 06:02
If I could I'll have only 3 legs for the whole machine. Levelling will be done before you can say "cheese".
What you need are less legs & more trusses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusses), cross braces. If you really wanna go all the way, a space frame (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceframe)will be ideal.

jfwillem
Fri 13 May 2011, 00:20
http://www.eew-maschinenbau.com/index.php?eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%2Fpics%2F041020-HSM_Modal_von_vornoben-00-qst_18.jpg&width=800m&height=600m&bodyTag=%3Cbody%20bgcolor%3D%22black%22%3E&wrap=%3Ca%20href%3D%22javascript%3Aclose%28%29%3B% 22%3E%20|%20%3C%2Fa%3E&md5=f3941fc290292f35db5ac3bf557e6980

tangocharlie123
Sat 14 May 2011, 05:51
Thanks once again

Ross it is not design by feel (but the thud would be) the trailer deck is 750mm from ground and the ramps are 4mt long. Also the 4th leg is where the indexer is to be mounted. The heavier sections are for mounting. I have seen what a golf cart can do to 75x75x2mm.

Geralds plans are Great and I have no disrespect for them.

the following Diagrams will also show why 4 legs.

11769

Two wheels on deck at one time and less distance when becoming level.

11770

Nice pivot point

11771

Would just make it but the x axis support bar would need to be raised.

also the reference would be 10 10 300 in the plans.

Cheers
Pete

Surfcnc
Sat 14 May 2011, 06:39
Hi Pete

Apologies my error on the plan number, it was actually 10 10 000 I was referring to but 10 10 300 also fits nicely !

Nice CAD work and good to see that you have thoroughly thought through your loading scenario.
Just to be cheeky, I reckon I could load any version as the height of your wheels or rollers are what determines where it snags;).

Pushing a 4.5m MechMate into place sounds really dangerous.
My inclination would be to winch it up with something like a boat winch.
Manual if you need the exercise or electric if your out to impress the ladies.

Truth is every time you put up something a bit different design wise, someone is going to leap on your bones.
As long as you can cope, it is more than worth it to gather some alternative points of view at times.
Mine is typically well though out but riddled with spelling errors, numerical errors and unstated assumptions !

Regards
Ross

Gerald D
Sat 14 May 2011, 07:14
Hey, why do I get mentioned for the leg count on a looooong table? :confused::rolleyes::D

Opening paragraph, top of the forum index says: "Welcome to this forum for folk with an interest in building MechMate CNC gantry routers that typically take about 3 - 5 HP routers for tables of 4 to 12 ft (1200 to 3700mm). " If you go longer than that, then you are on your own regarding the design. :D

Red_boards
Sun 15 May 2011, 03:57
Tilt the trailer bed?
The bump when the table lands is going to be harsh.

tangocharlie123
Sun 15 May 2011, 06:57
Thought about taking the cutoff wheel to the 200 PFC but what the hell. Thanks Gerald

Over the weekend this is what you should not do at home.

This is over 6 ft off the ground.
And ready to be rotated 180 degrees

11779

11780


And Ross the Girls better watch out!!!!:D

11778

Cheers
Pete

Gerald D
Wed 22 June 2011, 06:32
ohMikeee looks like a classic automated spammer........