MM Quick Build #63 - Pretoria South Africa [Archive]

Cois

Fri 14 May 2010, 06:59

The plan is to build a MM for cutting with Router (3612C (http://http://www.makita.co.za/Routers.htm) OR old small Bosh) and Plasma (Thermadine (http://http://maxweld.co.za/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1693&category_id=1323&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26)). The MM is for Hobby use. Maybe my sons (in High school) can make some money with small jobs.

Finish buying the steel for the frame and rails. Still waiting for quotation for Rack & pinion and CNC stuff.

Main Beams will be 2.5m long C-Channel - 150x75 (The Racks come in 2m length). I am still uncertain about the Y - length, must accept a 1225 board.

Hope fully starts cutting the V-rails tomorrow.

I still don’t know what to use for the motors, BOB ex. There is so many information to take in and decisions to take. (Example: gearbox = some back lash VS. Belt = no back lash).

Have appointment with Kobus Joubert this afternoon

hennie

Fri 14 May 2010, 07:09

One step at a time, lot of reading Good luck.

Kobus_Joubert

Fri 14 May 2010, 11:56

I had a busy aftenoon. First those okes with the BIG BIG BIG machine came to have a look, and after them, Cois popped in. Nice to meet with you guys and I hope your builds will soon be finished and give you as much joy and pleasure as old BBB gives to me.

Go for it chaps, let's see some more blue one of these day's.

CoRn3

Fri 14 May 2010, 12:05

Hehe...yes, we had the first appointment for the afternoon at BBB's. Thanks for having us Kobus; always nice to meet a friendly guy who shares the passion!

Cois, good luck on the build. We've been quite lucky in terms of suppliers, if you run into any difficulties, we'll be happy to help where we can.

Codered741

Fri 14 May 2010, 13:24

Welcome!

Just one thing to note with the plasma, the cutting surface needs to be electrically isolated from the rest of the frame, especially if the power supply is a high frequency start. Before we isolated our cutting surface, everytime we tried to strike an arc, the BOB freaked out and triggered all the inputs!
Some fiberglass strips, and some fancy fiberglass bolts took care of it, but just a heads up.

-Cody

Cois

Tue 18 May 2010, 07:04

With all the coruption out there, is it save to give your Credit card number over the internet. www.pmdx.com and www.motionking.com.

Even PayPal (I dont know the system) want to direct link my C/C tot there system. Can't I transfer money to a PayPal Account and used the money. My idee is that if there is no money in a account, it cant be stolen.

Do anybody know the South Africa "Mach 3 breakoutboard"

Hope the Forum can Help me!!

Kobus_Joubert

Tue 18 May 2010, 07:06

PayPal is save. If you have a FNB account they have PayPal facilities on their site.

BOB you get from Greg in Edenvale. www.cncdirect.co.za

Cois

Tue 18 May 2010, 07:37

What hidden cost is involved? This will be the first time that I get something over the water!

I learn that PayPal ask 2% currency exchange.

Let say South Africa ask import duties (IF they don’t accept the theory that is bought for samples)

And the cherry on top, somebody highjack your C/C no.

I am with Standard bank. Can I ask you (Kobus) to buy it after I transfer the money. What is your banking fees?

Kobus_Joubert

Tue 18 May 2010, 10:44

Change your bank :D. FNB internet banking is FAR FAR more advanced than Standard Bank.
Speak to Corne. They are also planning to bring in stuff from China I think.
If that fails contact me again and we can see if we can make a plan

Alan_c

Tue 18 May 2010, 14:42

The BOB from Greg is a goodie, battled with the Bob Campbell board but its all been good with the CNC Direct board. His pricing on the Gecko's is also good (especially when you take into account transport costs and import duties - YES - SARS will charge you for them and they are not shy, they dont care if they are samples or not!!! :eek:

I have found Paypal to be safe for transferring funds.

Gerald D

Wed 19 May 2010, 00:17

To avoid SARS getting interested in your shipment:
- have it sent to a personal name and street address (company names and industrial addresses get them hungry, and they will insist that you use a "clearing agent")
- make sure that the description on the supplier's invoice can be correlated with a description in the local rule book that says how much duty must be paid. (anything from 0% to about 20%)
- do not accept a supplier's offer to show a lesser amount on the invoice than what you actually paid . . . SARS is wise to this ancient trick of reducing duties and taxes
- you cannot avoid SARS charging 14% VAT.

To make sure that your shipment doesn't get lost:
- Don't accept shipment via the sending country's "post office" (the government subsidised version). Their post office will send to our post office and then the wheels fall off...I lost 4 gecko's like this. The post office in the US is called USPS....not the same as UPS!
- The parcel must be very clearly labelled, including a local telephone number.
- The package must obviously also be strong.

Paypal is safe. Sending credit card info (including CVV) is also safe, but don't be surprised if your card suddenly gets strange deductions and you then have to spend a lot of time with banks to get the deductions reversed. With my last US import against a credit card, a train ticket was purchased in Italy for R1000 a day later. Fortunately, the italian train ticket scam was well known to the banks and my affadavit at the police station was not too long.

Cois

Wed 19 May 2010, 01:03

Hi Gerald
Where can we find the local rule book on the web for SARS. Or do somebody no what codes to use.

Thanks for the advice Gerald.

After Friday visit to Kobus to see a real MM, I start thinking about the damping of the structure.

Damping is all about MASS. Why not pack a layer of bricks under the waste board to add weight. For every square mete, 55 or more bricks can be accommodate, let say ‘n brick weight is 3kg. It’s a total of 165kg/square meter. Mamparas (Cheep bricks) cost about R1/each, much cheaper than steel. Yes there must be no caps, a light cement mixture can be used to fill gap

hennie

Wed 19 May 2010, 01:18

Cois let Me know when you are ready for the Gecko`s I need 8 so we can bring yours in with mine.

KenC

Wed 19 May 2010, 01:18

Cois, As you said, Damping is all about MASS, you can use sand, stone, hydraulic shocks absorbers, construction debris, water, ice cubes.... etc etc... or just construct an elevated concrete bed, embed the table in concrete... Cement is cheap here, we build our house from cement & brick rather then timber or steel here.

Its your choice.

Gerald D

Wed 19 May 2010, 04:39

Where can we find the local rule book . . . .

An extract: http://www.cargoinfo.co.za/customs/customstree.asp

Cois

Fri 21 May 2010, 05:24

Gerald, thanks for the custom (Import/Export) site.

Just to makes sure: I must ask them to put the description and code on the package for the stepper motor from MotionKing:

8501.31 Motor of an Output not exceeding 750w.

What is the CD that is in the second column of the table?

Gerald D

Fri 21 May 2010, 08:44

On the package must only be your name, address and contact tel. number.

But on the invoice (the document is the gospel to the Customs), MotionKing must put a clear description. Suggest you ask them to put:

Electrical stepper motor 200 Watt (take power supply voltage X motor current)

Cois

Mon 24 May 2010, 03:20

I have a Idea.

Why not start 'n WIKI book about the MM machine.

The Idea is that all the clever guys can add there valuable contribution to the building process, setup and commissioning in a orderly manner. Something likes a MM Bible.

Here is a nice sample of a WIKI: http://www.wug.za.net/wiki/index.php/PTAWUG_New_ip_user_guide.

Cois

Wed 02 June 2010, 02:06

Receive my Module 1 & 22 Tooth pinion today. Nusaf don’t stock a 24 teeth.:)

I am still waiting for my 34HS9801 motor in the post from Motion king.:confused:

According to motion king (http://www.motionking.com/show_products_detail.asp?ID=12&fenlei_ID=2)the shaft diameter of the motor is 14mm.
The pinion diameter is 18mm.

How do you connect the two? There is not enough “meat” for a screw threat???:(

Kobus_Joubert

Wed 02 June 2010, 02:34

Go for 27 tooth or make a sleeve to get enough meat for grub screw. I started with a 20 tooth and had to go the sleeve route.

MetalHead

Wed 02 June 2010, 05:22

This forum is the user guide :D No Wiki Needed.

Cois

Mon 14 June 2010, 04:32

My MM was given its first coat of blue this weekend. Kobus you promise me a MM Sticker (please give me a quotation).

One question, Why not bolt the control box on to the machine, under the waist board. I see in all the photos the box is bolt to a wall.

Kobus_Joubert

Mon 14 June 2010, 05:24

Control box is your preference..any place you feel like it will do.
Will do the stickers tonight. 2 Big 2 Small is that OK

hennie

Mon 14 June 2010, 08:20

Cois, the machine vibrates and if you need to work on your box it is easyer to work standing than to kneel on the floor although there are some builders who mounted on the machine with no troubles.

Cois

Mon 05 July 2010, 02:47

After struggling with the jumper settings on the PMDX 122, my MM is up and running. Make a pensile holder yesterday and draw some lines. I think it is the safest way to learn!!! After a boo-boo, just change the sheet of paper.

Is there still serial numbers to finish machines?

Now I must learn the software. Please can someone help me with the following?
• The arrow keys on the key board to move the axis (XYZ) don’t work sometimes. I must press the wrong something. The Jog On/Off (Ctrl ALT J) is green and the Fly out work when I click it with the mouse to move the axis. The only way I can get out is to re-start the program.

• My Y –axis is moving Right and counting up (that is how I want it), but I must used the Left key-board button to move to the right. In the literature they said “This is done by selecting System Hotkeys in the config menu”…..I tried it many ways, but it don’t work.

• The X-near and X-far (slaved axis) work in normal mode together. But if I want to “ref all home” On the “
Program Run Alt1” page. The MM seeks the Z-home, the Y-home, but on the X axis, only the X near motor is turning, the X Far motor won’t turn WHY.

Thanks
Francois

Kobus_Joubert

Mon 05 July 2010, 03:51

If you bought the BOB from Greg in Edenvale it would cost you a local call and he will sort you out chop chop.....Now it is a different story meneer.

Belli

Wed 07 July 2010, 09:20

Hello Francois,

If you are available on Thursday evening, our next meeting is at the CSME clubhouse, July 8 at 19h30. Bring your PC and your questions and I am sure we can sort it out.

Groete,
Greg

Kobus_Joubert

Wed 07 July 2010, 13:11

What is this CSME thing Greg ?

Ok I think I found it ... http://www.friendsoftherail.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1564

Belli

Wed 07 July 2010, 14:34

We have started a 'Workshop Machinery Club'. It is still early days but there are around 20 active members, meetings were Fridays but we will try Thursdays to see if it suits more people. We have had a few meetings discussing primarily EMC and there is a growing support base of EMC users (because it is free and it is good!).

I can email a map for all of those who are interested.

Groete,
Greg

Kobus_Joubert

Sun 25 July 2010, 03:26

I KNOW that this machine is painted and making DUST. Come on Cois SHOW us the pictures....you don't have to be shy anymore. When you have built your own MechMate you must be PROUD of it and show the world.

Help me Mike, Gerald, get this guy to show us and give the man his number.

Gerald D

Sun 25 July 2010, 05:34

That's a nice speedy build!

Kobus_Joubert

Sun 25 July 2010, 09:19

Okes in Gauteng are always quicker that the laid back Capies :D

Gerald D

Sun 25 July 2010, 09:21

Zzzzzzzzzzzz

MetalHead

Sun 25 July 2010, 09:45

Pictures, Pictures, Pictures ..... so us your pictures :D

Kobus_Joubert

Sun 25 July 2010, 13:03

Yes Cois even Afrikaans pictures is ok. :eek:

Kobus_Joubert

Thu 29 July 2010, 03:15

Doing this for Cois.....so here goes....just helping where I can.
=========================
Rail grinding

I build the skate from plate that was cut by a guillotine and weld together to get all the angles right. Couldn’t wait for the CNC boys.

I struggle to grind the rails, could not get the sparks fly. After investigation I see that the grinding disk (Pfert) glazed more than it was grinding. The white ring is the area that is supposes to grind.

10065

When I switched to a cutting disk (but 2 on top of each other to get support), the sparks fly!

10066

After some “grinding” with a cutting disk.

Control box

10067

Stepper motors: Motion king 34 HS 9801

10068

I build a “chimney” to cool the heat sink.

1) Air inlet though Filter on bottom of control box

10069

Kobus_Joubert

Thu 29 July 2010, 03:18

Air go through control box and down the “chimney” on the back of the heat sink of the Gecko’s.

10070

The exhaust fan sucks out the air on the out side of control box

10071

10072

The Machine

10073

10074

Kobus_Joubert

Thu 29 July 2010, 03:19

My work clamping mechanism

10075

Router mount for Makita router & Dust Mounting

10076

10077

Kobus_Joubert

Thu 29 July 2010, 04:24

And all of this for under R 24000.00.....:)

MetalHead

Thu 29 July 2010, 05:22

Kobus you have seen the dust , its blue and labled. Looks like it's SN time !! #63

MetalHead

Thu 29 July 2010, 05:34

I like the snorkle arm for the Monitor/Keyboard

Lex

Thu 29 July 2010, 07:44

Geluk Cois!
What did you get for free to build it for only R24 grand?

Kobus_Joubert

Thu 29 July 2010, 08:14

He has the proof......the spreadsheet he showed his wife :D

Alan_c

Thu 29 July 2010, 10:49

Hmmm... creative spreadsheets, he must be an accountant :rolleyes:

hennie

Thu 29 July 2010, 22:51

Waar is die blou bull Horings.? What is the cutting size of your table?

jhiggins7

Fri 30 July 2010, 06:05

Cois,

Congratulations on completing your MechMate and earning Serial #63.:)

Here is the Updated Builder's Log (http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AttqjIPMBEXKcExveGc4d3U0V25zQmMyX1U1eUVhU Xc&hl=en).

Please let us know the cutting dimensions of your MechMate for the Builder's Log.

Also, please review the Builder's Log and let us know any changes you wish to make.

domino11

Mon 02 August 2010, 21:43

Congrats Cois

Cois

Fri 15 July 2011, 08:04

I decided to build an overhead crane to manage the “heavy” and large load in the workshop. The max load is 400kg.

After some trouble to move along the long axis I decided to use a second hand gate motor (R450) to do the hard work. Travel speed is 150mm/sek.
For the lifting I went to Adendorf for a 400kg electric hoist.
http://www.tooltime.co.za/ProductDetails.aspx?id=287

The original control of the hoist has an emergency mushroom switch that was taken out and replace with a stop/start switch that do the switching of the gate motor with some relays.

bolingerbe

Fri 15 July 2011, 08:14

I like it. The place where I purchase steel uses these. Although they are a lot bigger, I love to watch them move things around. As my shop is getting smaller and smaller and, I want to buy more and more I plan on moving my welding and other metal working tools out of the current shop and build one to house the metal gear and build a paint booth in the new shop. It maybe a few years down the road but I do plan on installing an over head crane also.

Kobus_Joubert

Fri 15 July 2011, 12:09

Impressive...well done

zumergido

Fri 15 July 2011, 19:32

very nice. clever and cheap..

Cois

Fri 09 September 2011, 15:25

Had a problem today, the MM is losing steps in the Z dimension. If I set the Z to zero to the top of the work piece, after a while it is no longer correct.

After played (:Dwith the MM you just play, it is not work:D) with everything and make sure all the nuts and bolts are tighten. I come to discovery that acceleration and deceleration value of the Z motion is too large.

After some software adjusting in Mach, everything is now working fine.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150299849969326.356149.833594325&type=1

smreish

Fri 09 September 2011, 15:37

This is one of the small downfalls of an open loop control system. Steppers are told to go a distance via steps, but without feedback to the amplifier. With no Absolute reference outside of the drive train, it's easy to loose steps if the inertia of the machine or the objects attached to automated device cause it to exceed what it was told to do.

Good troubleshooting to get the ramps on the accel/decel down to fix it.

I generally will set the accel/decel to a very moderate setting to troubleshoot missed steps on a cnc machine to make certain it wasn't induced by operation.

Thanks for sharing

Cois

Mon 19 March 2012, 22:04

Did anybody play with making dove tails on our MM.
Any software suggestions that we can hook on to MM.
I have found the following for Mach: http://cnc.wagnercraft.com/help

Kobus_Joubert

Tue 20 March 2012, 00:19

Is this your 'yearly' post to the forum Francois :D

Cois

Mon 26 March 2012, 13:17

On many occasions I have to cut many parts from wood that are the ame. The wood and bits is relatively inexpensive, but my time is valuable. You can only work with your MM from 17:00 to 20:00 in the evenings or the noise from the neighbors is louder than the MM.

I want to let the MM shut down automatically when the machine is finished with a job (program). After I have setup everything, press "Cycle Start" in the morning and of we go to my daytime work. The reliable MM go on and on until the end of the program is reach and switch everything off with the e-stop circuit. The computer is made for be on the whole day. (yeh -yeh I know it is not green)

If a tool breaks or there is an error on the work piece, it is worth the time of.

At the end of the program M9 (flood off -output pin 14) is switch off and use this to break the e-stop mode circuit.

Your valuable input is appreciate!

Receive today my license for the dove tail software (Mach Wizard) from Alan Wagner.
http://cnc.wagnercraft.com/dovetail

domino11

Mon 26 March 2012, 13:36

What about a fire? There have been instances where a cnc has caught fire, I dont think I would not want to off site if an accident happened.
Spoilboard Fire (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7400&highlight=shopbot+fire)

KenC

Mon 26 March 2012, 22:33

I too has a char spoilboard. Earlier incidences were bad enough that I had to replace it.
After I had my vacuum holddown, I can smell the burn earlier & hence had char spots small enough to just leave them there.
All these happened with me by the machine; Imagine if its left unattended!!!

From experience, few possible cause of fire,
1) Feed rate too slow + spindle too fast
2) Blunt tool bit
3) Fine saw dust sprinkle on open flame...

Kobus_Joubert

Mon 26 March 2012, 23:38

I personally would not leave it alone. I like to be in the area....even if you cannot see it as long as I can hear it. Things like to go wrong when you least expect it. Get the GARDEN ENGINEER to check on it during the day....or put a remote video camera in that you can monitor from work ...with a E-Stop and fire system that can be triggered remotely.

danilom

Tue 27 March 2012, 02:06

Be sure to put a fire alarm and sprinkler

KenC

Tue 27 March 2012, 05:40

Speaking of the devil, an hour ago, I just got sparks flying when a piece of loose wood got caught by the spindle & rub on the collet holder long enough to get ignited...
The spark went as far as my Thien separator...
Consider myself lucky by not burning the shop down...

Cois

Wed 28 March 2012, 02:05

I looking for a Gecko G203V and Motor 34 HS 9801. New or second hand, Kobus has inspire me (again) to make a 4 axis. This is what I have on my MM and can used it for spare if needed

Can somebody give me good directions on a water cool spindle and drive

Or is somebody planing to import stuff something to South Africa