Finishing the floors in my shop. Which way to go?!?!

[cvriv.charles]

I didnt know whether I should create a seperate thread per question if the questions are completely different. I say this because I created a thread about granite reference surfaces. Different forums have different rules. Sorry.

The weather is getting warmer and I have to prep the shop for this MM i plan on build within the next fews weeks. The most important thing to finish first is the floors because the machine weighs more than a ton easily and I just cant pick it up to do the floors.

My questions is,... whats the bast finish to go with? My shop is basically my garage. The floor is concrete and unfinished. I already bought 2 boxes of epoxy floor paint good for 1000sqf. I was just going to use that but my fear is peeling:(

I have had experiences with floor paint peeling away looking nasty. From dropoing chemicals on the floors, water vapor, etc. The epoxy paint is suppose to be real good though. It was either that or vinyl tiles maybe?!?! Or even just leaving it unfinished? It hard to clean when unfinished though.

What do you guys do? Especially the hardcore shop guys. lots of traffic, heavy equipment etc.

I plan on using vinyl tiles upstairs in the garage only because the upstairs has a plywood floor.

Thanks.

[Johannescnc]

How old is the floor? my first thought was as you have wrote, Epoxy paint. I am not an expert on paint but I believe that concrete needs to have been cured...
If you have rubber feet on your machine it should not really matter what the finish floor is... IMO
Good luck on your build!

[Gerald D]

When the concrete has cured for over a month, hire a floor grinder to smooth the concrete and remove that "sandy" crust that peels off with the paint. And then probably decide to leave it unpainted.

[cvriv.charles]

Well,... the floor is old. I'll say about 30 years maybe? Its cracked in several places. I was going to clean it reall good and use concrete crack filler. plus there is some area's where the concrete kind of broke away in the middle of the floor. i would have to fill that in too.

plus theres a drain in the floor to one side too. The concrete slopes downward towards the drain. I hate that. we have a septic system and I doubt that drain is going to the septic system. Probably drains right out into the lawn somewhere. We have well water so i dont want crap going down that drain. I was thinking about filling in the drain along with that sloping floor so the floor is flat/ flush. But i worry about that fill cracking. i dont know.

I dont think my floors are nice enough for a grinding. I was thinking that I would fix cracks and fill in that drain and sloping floor then cover it all with something.

But i dont know what to cover it with. I was even thinking about laying plywood down on the floor and then putting something on top of that.

[MetalHead]

I second Gerald's response. The other option for high use is polish to 400 grit and stain. Toppings to consider if you do not do this is a hardner and a sealer.

I have not done these things to my shop floor yet and I wish I had done it before I added all of the equipment....because now I can't see the floor any more :o.

So I have to move things about to get it at least hardend and sealed. Maybe I can add that to my todo list for this year.

[cvriv.charles]

Well i was actually just out there and it is pretty smooth already. Im thinking the PO had it done at one point but there is damage to the concrete. with all the fixing of cracks etc,... i should get it ground down? That seems like a lot to do. i still have the rest of the place to finish off. insulation and sheetrock. ill be building my MM in a few weeks. Maybe ill just paint it and jut tell myself its just a gargae and its not permanent. LOL. I mean once I start making decent money I would get to get a REAL shop. ehhh.

[KenC]

The only way I know to repair a floor crack properly is to hack the concreak off where the crack is, including 6' each ways till you see the Rib bars, remove all the debrids & pour fresh concrete in. This applies to sunken floor too.
The crack could be caused by expension, so while you are at it, why not cut some thermal expension joints on the floor as well.
BUT this is expensive job & normally what people do was just patch like putty car bodywork... which is unsightly & will hit back after a while.
Drains IMHO is a necessaty for any building. You will never know when you will need them but you will need them when the tme comes. ;)

[swatkins]

IF there is a Home Depot near by I would go see if they still have their display for painting garage floors.. I have not looked at that display in about a year so I am not sure if they still do this type of finishing job....

They offered different finishes that were very good... Most of all they prepared the floor with a shot machine... That machine blast the concrete with steel shot that cleaned the surface and prepared it for the first step of their system. The shot machine had a skirt that kept all the materials contained and was supposed to be reasonable clean.

Worth a look ...

What ever you use make sure it is not too slick when wet... That is a pain in the rear, in more ways than one :)

[Gerald D]

MDF dust is also very slippery on a smooth floor.

[cvriv.charles]

I might just use crack filler for the cracks and I might take a jack hammer to the section of floor by the drain and fill it all back in with new concrete. Then clean it real good then just paint. Again I would like to get a legit shop one day. This is temp for now. Just a garage. But its just that halfassing is not my thing.

[cvriv.charles]

Another more important thing I need to worry about is upgrading the power in the garage. I only have a 50amp line from the house. I want to get the power company to run a seperate service to my garage. I want to run 240v equipment.

[bradm]

Charles, a 50amp line is a decent amount of power. It's also pretty unusual at 120v. Can you tell us a little more about it, or post a picture of the outlet, wire, and breaker?

If you have 50amps at 240v, you can run almost anything.

[cvriv.charles]

Yea you can but only one equipment at a tome right? If I'm tig welding, running the router, dust collector, lights, ac, computers, etc.... that will be much. I want to build a km plasma cutter soon too. Either after my first mm router or after the second. Now as said before I don't want to work out of this garage forever but getting a buggervplace isn't going to happen over night. I will take pics of the garage floors and outlets power panel etc when I get home.

[KenC]

Are you allowed to do all that in a residential area in your country? Or you really have nice neighbours :confused: My local council will put me out of business once they knows about it.
You need a proper workshop in the industrial zone for that amount of activities :)
With the type of activities you intended, you should upgrade your fire code too.
I solve all this by renting a shop in a nearby industrial zone.

[cvriv.charles]

I don't really live in a residen tial area. I have one neighbor and there house is a good distant from my house and on the other side of my house so they can't see the garge from there. If they haven't complianed about me yet they won't. Lol. I will definitely start in the garage but won't end up there. Ill get pics.

[hennie]

Charles, no one can say anything if it is your hobby.Make the neighbor something then the problem is solved.:)

[cvriv.charles]

Here are some pics of my property. Im standing at the street looking down. We live on a county road. Decently busy street during the day.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010-800.jpg) http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (2)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (2)-800.jpg)

Garage is almost as big as the house.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (3)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (3)-800.jpg) http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (4)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (4)-800.jpg)

The white house is my closest neighbor. Its a good distance. All other houses are so far away,... cant even consider them neighbors. I think the couple that lives here asid that during the week there not even home. They have a home in new york city too. So yea.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (5)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (5)-800.jpg)

Some of the garage space. Forgive the mess. I have to get all this out of here.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (6)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (6)-800.jpg)

The damaged floor.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (7)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (7)-800.jpg)

You can just see how the floor slopes down towards the drain. Its not much but enough to drive me nuts.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (8)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (8)-800.jpg)

Theres the other side of the garage. I have to insulate and sheet rock that wall. Thats going to be my "clean" room. Assembling, packaging, etc. Maybe. I might take that wall down. I dont know.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (9)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (9)-800.jpg)

Heres the loft. As you can see I didnt some framing for sheetrock and I insulated. Some. I have some more to do. What difference though. Was murder up there before. VERY cold and VERY hot. Now its in between.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (10)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (10)-800.jpg)

Heres the distribution panel in the garage. Its a small one. I need a bigger one. ITs being fed 50amps from the house panel.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (11)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (11)-800.jpg)

This is the house panel. Its getting 200amp. I am wondering if I can send 100amps to the garage using the cable thats already being used. I HIGHLY doubt we need more than 100amps for the house. My girlfriend and I and very good about turning everything off. Plus its just the two of us.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (12)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (12)-800.jpg)

This is the wire going to the garage. Its pretty hefty.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (13)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (13)-800.jpg)

It says Type NM-B 600V. Is that good for 100amps?
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (14)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-07-2010/mMR_04-07-2010 (14)-800.jpg)

[cvriv.charles]

Charles, no one can say anything if it is your hobby.Make the neighbor something then the problem is solved.:)

True. I will keep it a hobby but I would like to go ahead and register a business name so I dont lose out on the name I want.

[bradm]

Nice looking place, Charles.

Actually, the important stuff on there is the 6 3 G - it's 3 conductor 6 gauge cable with a ground. That's what you would use to bring a 50A 240V circuit out, which has a total of 100A of 120V (two legs). There are lots of ampacity tables (http://www.armstrongssupply.com/wire_chart.htm)out there which will show you that 6 gauge is matched to that 50A. If you wanted 100A you'd need on the order of 1 gauge cable, depending on length, insulation, and other conditions.

I assume the breaker feeding it from the house is a double breaker? Two attached? I can't quite make that out from the photos. If it is, you have 240V out there.

I agree that you will want a new panel in the shop, and you could even size it for an eventual service upgrade, replacing the feed wire. I don't think you need to do that feed upgrade until later, if ever.

A MechMate with a Spindle will use up 20A or so of your available power. That leaves enough to run two major tools or one sizable welder at the same time on your existing 50A service. You can hold off on buying $1000+ worth of copper until after you establish the need for it. As a rough reference, a 3HP single phase 220V motor will draw 13-14A, with a little extra on startup; commonly used with a 20A circuit. So you could have 3 20A circuits in your panel and run at least two, and often three simultaneously. How often are you really going to have more than two large motors running at the same time?

I run my MM (3hp), dust collector (1.5hp), and table saw(2hp) on a 40A 240v feed.

[cvriv.charles]

Yea, the garage is fed from a double pole so I do have 240v to the garage. I guess I will think baby steps. I'll keep the 50amp service for now. It will allow me to run a MM and a dust collector with some other small equipment. But I will have to wait till the MM is done before I can weld or do anything else really. I dont want to take the chance of running something while the MM is running in the middle of a job.

I plan on using the 3kw chinese spindle. Plus the dust collector im eyeing is either a 3 - or 4hp machine. BOKU suction. I do plan on building another MM soon after the first one. I wont be able to run it until I do something about the power. Hopefully by then I will be making money with the first machine that I will be able to afford an upgrade in service.

I dont really want to move to a bigger better shop until I have 2 MM's built. This way I can move one machine at a time always having one up and running to keep money coming in. To be honest I really dont want to run a seperate service to the garge because I will only need it for as long as Im there. Once i have moved to a bigger place,... ill be using the garage to work on my car or whatever. So yeah.

Thanks for the property compliment. I love this house and property. its perfect. Bon fires at night. Nothing but the sound of nature. The bugs are horrific but im getting use to it:)

[cvriv.charles]

OH and another thing,... i already have a 240v outlet installed in the garage. but its not where I want it. Or maybe it is,... i dont. Its in the small room downstairs. That small roomi think is like 8 - 9 feet wide. I could stick the MM in there if I had too,.......... maybe I will. This way I can keep all the mess if any in that one little room. And I can use the bigger area as a fabrication area I guess. Plus I can install and AC in the window in that small room and easily keep that room cold for the machine. Thats another thing,... I have to run an air conditioner,... geeez. I hope this works out.

My question is,... he used the same wire to feed the garage to install the 240v outlet. I dont have to use that same type wire to move that outlet elsewhre right? I just have to figure out how much amps ill be running through it and find the right wire using that chart you linked?

[bradm]

Charles, I can't in good conscience answer that rewiring question completely on this here intarweb er, internet. I'll try to give the rough parameters at the end of this note.

This is an area where there are lots of amateurs, myself included, that can safely do their own wiring - but if you have to ask, you should get a local person to help you - they'll be able to walk the space with you, notice other factors, and describe the trade-offs. The official answer, of course, is get an electrician. The unofficial answer is find someone local you know that has a copy of the NEC and understands how to apply it to your needs.

If you don't upgrade the feed wire, but just update the panel and ask for a few outlets installed for the requirements of your devices, you should be able to get a reasonable price from a pro. It's stepping the power up to 100A that starts to require a lot of expensive wire ... and usually an expensive markup on the install.

The partial answer: if you have spare wire, it's legitimate to use oversized wire for a circuit. Each circuit needs to be assessed on it's own, and ideally, match the (now standardized (http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-straight-blade.aspx)) outlet type to the wire feeding it to the breaker in the panel. So a 20A 250V circuit would use a NEMA 6-20 outlet fed by three 12 gauge wires from a dual 20A breaker. With that spare 6 gauge cable, you could wire anything up to a 50A circuit, but still should match the outlet and the breaker. I think it looks like your existing circuit has a 40A double breaker? It's hard to see in that picture. In theory, the outlet on that should look like a NEMA 6-50.

Assessing the proper type of wire, conduit, breaker, outlet and ensuring that they are installed in a fashion that will handle any challenges presented to them - physical damage, temperature, distance, etc - is what having an experienced person give a walk through will do.

[swatkins]

Wire is getting expensive again...

Today I purchased three 52 foot lenghts of wire to power a 125 amp sub panel located 45 feet away form the main panel.. Cost of the wire was 240 dollars... and a 125 amp breaker was 57.00

[cvriv.charles]

Wire is getting expensive again...

Today I purchased three 52 foot lenghts of wire to power a 125 amp sub panel located 45 feet away form the main panel.. Cost of the wire was 240 dollars... and a 125 amp breaker was 57.00

Wow that is expensive but,.... a lot less than I thought. I think I can safely say that I would need about 100ft of wire. If I can just get a 100amp service in the garage I would be alot happier. Is that cable you bought is thicker than 1 gauge right?

@ bradm - I dont plan on upgrading the service to the garage myself. I would have someone do that for me. They have to digg up the ground between the house and the garage. Also,... before the upgrade in service, I have a guy that can do it for me cheap. He's wiring my basement now.

If I upgrade the service,... ill have to make a big decision. Just pull 100amps from my houses 200amp service or upgrade the hose to 300 maybe 400 and then give the garage 100 maybe 200amps OR just have the power company run a seperate service. I really dont want that though. so maybe Ill have them just upgrade the house.

[KenC]

Love your house! So picturistic! YEt still with all the "necessary" modcon & creature's comfort.
How I wish our rural area is so accessible.

I'm no electrical expert but these are some of the good practices observed in my day job...

You can run another 50 A line parallel to your existing 50A line, have a separate breakers. You have the choice to split your power supply ussage, eg one for MM & another for your plasma. or one for noisy application & the other for clean application. It is better in cost term & EMI management... & you don't throw away your existing wire.

Your installation guy may not like it because in doing so, he has to be real careful not to damage the existing cable while digging up the existing cable & cable trench. The trench should be at least 3 ft deep & remember to lay 4" thick 2" stone aggregate & 2" thick sand bed in the cable trench if you haven't have that in the first place, good for evacuating water & provide a firm base for the cable to lay on. Again its only a good practice.

If your plan is to work from your garage forever (which I really don't mid) or because you can, then upgrade to your heart's content.

As a rule of thumb, starting current of induction motors is at least 4x the motor rated current using star-delta starter or even soft starter., under 5hp, you can safely use DOL but still need 4x surge. Unless you install an VFD.
Hence, you must not switch on all the motors at the same time. Another good practice.

[cvriv.charles]

Geeez. Heres the plan. Start off with my 240v 50A service. Build my MM and then start making money. Once I have some money coming in I will then upgrade the house to a 400A service. I will then hire someone to feed 200A to the garage. To do it the right way. I dont want any mistakes. I have my girl, our 3 dogs, of course me,.... living in this house. Dont want to risk our lives. Maybe kids one day too. So thats the deal.

Its just that I want my company to grow as big as I can get it. I have to start in my garage and will end up in a bigger facility down the road. And this is the thing,... that could be years! So I have to get comfortable in my garage.

Thanks for the property comments. Its very country out here. our neighbor has like 8 horses we can see from our house. Had a good size black bear walking through our back yard. I actually have a pic of it. I'll post some more pics later.

The previous owners were on the older side. They did a great job with styling the house. You should see how our kitchen is. I love it. Im refinishing the basement now. Putting up sheetroack now. All the wiring is pretty much done. Going to build a Hearth for a wood burning stove soon. I am very much a DIY bloke. Im very good at get things done and getting them done right. You can ask my girl. I built a new flight of stairs going to the basement. I tore the whole thing down when done because it was off a bit. When I mean a bit,... I mean a bit. You wouldnt even have noticed. She still chews me up about that. BUT she loves the new stairs and NOW see's what I meant.

[cvriv.charles]

Here are some more photos.

Heres the side of the house facing away from the street. These are old photos from when we first bought the house.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010-800.jpg)

Side of the garage. I tored out all of those bushes. I tore out alot of bushes. They grew the bushes to close to the house and a lot of bushes with flowers that bees love. Tons of bees. I will plant new bushes further from the garage and house.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (2)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (2)-800.jpg)

Our lawn in the shape of an "L". This is the portion of the lawn facing the street.[
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (3)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (3)-800.jpg)

This is the portion behind the garage.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (4)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (4)-800.jpg)

Im standing where the two sections meet. The guy is inspecting the distribution box for the spetic system.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (5)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (5)-800.jpg)

Favorite picture,... A mountain in our backyard. ITs so beautiful when it rains out here. Its very clean feeling. Not like in a city or even in a very cluttred neighborhood where it feels dirty.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (6)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (6)-800.jpg)

A gazeebo,...
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (7)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (7)-800.jpg)

With a HUGE hottub that we have yet to use. Im going to clean it out and get it running this year. Soon.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (8)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (8)-800.jpg)

This pic is facing upstairs at our bedroom.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (9)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (9)-800.jpg)

The ceiling.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (10)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (10)-800.jpg)

Looking down from our bedroom at the kitchen. Those are real old beams from a barn. 1800's. Sadly they are going to bed replaced. I need to open up our kitchen. The beams the way they are, their in the way. I will replace them with new beams that I will hack up making them look old. I will sell these. Stupid expensive. Like an aged bottle of wine.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (11)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (11)-800.jpg)

Looking down at the room next to the kitchen. Going to be a sitting room. TV on the wall etc. A room to entertain, relax.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (12)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (12)-800.jpg)

The kitchen. My girlfriend.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (13)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (13)-800.jpg)

This is my baby girl. AKA "Pretty Girl". Got her as a birthday present from my girlfriend. Her aunt had a litter of 12! LOL.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (14)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (14)-800.jpg) http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (15)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (15)-800.jpg)

Just when I picked up Maple(Pretty Girl) I ended up with this character too. His name is Dunkin, AKA "Mr. Jealous". MY mom calls me up and says "Hey. You want a dog?" I told her I just got Maple! She says well your brother found a pitbull. Long story short,... we tried finding his previous owner with no luck. No tags, no chip, no owner. The pound wanted us to bring him in. Initially they couldnt take him because there was no one to pick him up and they didnt have room for him. So we kept him for a week! We called the pounds regularly and they all said no one is looking for a dog like that. So instead of bringing him in,... I just disappeared with the dog. Kept him. I knew they were going to kill him anyways.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (16)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (16)-800.jpg)

Turns out,... he is the best dog ever!!! I love this dog to death. He is so playfull and loving it kills me! He sleep sin bed with me right next to me. Almost never leaves my side. He gets along with Maple and my girlfriends dog as if they were real family. He is a pure example of how pitbulls really are. They are just dogs. Thats all.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (17)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (17)-800.jpg)

Love him so much. My girlfriend didnt want him at first because she does not like pitbulls. Because of their bad rep. But now,.... Dunkin has painted a whole new picture for her. She loves him to death too.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (18)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (18)-800.jpg)

Brother and sister.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (19)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (19)-800.jpg)

And here's the bear that was in my backyard. Not exactly small. My girlfriends dog Tripp AKA "Old Man", "Big Papa" warned me of the bears presence. I would of never known the bear was there if it wasnt for him. I was outside cutting wood right there too!! Her dog would of went out to attack it too if he wasnt chained. The pitbull would of done the same thing.
http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (20)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (20)-800.jpg) http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (21)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (21)-800.jpg) http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (22)-180.jpg (http://www.cvriv.com/worklogs/mechMateRouter/mMR_04-08-2010/mMR_04-08-2010 (22)-800.jpg)

[TheDave]

...getting back to your garage floor. I think it's in excellent shape for a 30 year old floor!

One question - is your garage going to be heated? I don't mean 75 degrees in the dead of winter, but will it be above freezing all the time? I'm asking because the freezing and thawing that happens in spring & fall will pop off any patches you add. If you keep the shop above freezing you greatly increase the life of the patches. No patch will last forever, but if you plan on moving all the equipment out in 5 years or so then you'll be OK. If that's the case I think your best bet is to fill the cracks, thoroughly clean the floor, and spread on the epoxy.

I totally understand your desire for perfection - I'm exactly the same way. My wife gets very frustrated because I won't start a project on the house unless we rip everything out, start over, and do it the right way.

I wouldn't cut out the section of floor where the drain is and pour new concrete. No matter what you do you will always have a noticeable joint between old & new concrete. The best solution is to pour a new floor. Having said that, it may be possible to simply throw down a layer of wire mesh and pour 2" of concrete on top of your existing floor to get a nice, smooth level floor. Hard to see if that would work without getting a better look, but if you have a friend who does concrete work he should be able to tell you.

[cvriv.charles]

Well,... the garage wont be heated 100% of the time. Only when im in there. But I do plan on insulating the entire garage though. I insulated the upstairs all but the side walls. What a difference! It was so cold in there during the winter I couldnt even stand to be in there. During the hot days its only warm up there. And thats because of the fact that the walls havent be done yet. Plus I have a board nailed over the window until I replace the window. That board aloneget real hot! Couldnt believe it. Im thinknig that once I have the entire place insulated and sheetrocked,... it wont get cold enough inside to seriously freeze the floor. Plus I would like to think that I'll have my business out of the garage and into a bigger place.

In the next few days I will start processing the floors. Quick question,... do you think I should open up the cracks a bit for a better patching? Or just cram the patch into the crack the way it is? I did this for in the basement, that is I just smashed fill into the cracks and so far,... its still there:) So maybe I'll just do that?

I wouldnt mind having the floors blasted for good adhesion. Is there some kind of machine kind of like a floor buffer except with a huge steel brush to score the floor surface? I tried using my angle grinder with a steel brush attachment to clean up some glue on the basement floor and that thing chewed through the concrete so I stopped. Something liek that but very very would be great.

Yea just liek you im the same way. Im refinishing the basement now. I gutted that whole basement out and bleached the entire basement. I insulated all the cold water pipes, the well tank, well filter, everything. Now the basement is dry as any other room in the house. I then built up all new walls. had a guy do electrical. Doing sheetrock now.

Anyways,... dont think im going to rip up concrete just going to patch clean and paint.

[domino11]

Charles,
Instead of sheetrock, why not use 1/2" aspenite? Much harder for a garage, and you can put screws in it. Does not ding when you hit it and will not absorb as much moisture and cause mold. Thats what I used in my garage, I will never use sheetrock for a garage again.

[cvriv.charles]

You guys are good! I love it! You guys are reading my thoughts!!! Scary. I was bouncing back and forth between sheetrock and OSB(aspenite). I dont know if it was you or another member but I saw pics of someone shop on this forum with OSB walls. That intrigued me.

Its a bit more expensive than sheet but would last longer. Now that you mentioned it I think I will go that way. I was also thinking that I would screw stuff right to it to hang stuff.

Thanks dude:)

[domino11]

Its actually cheaper per sheet here. $7 for osb and $12 for sheetrock. :) I have done three garages so far with it and will not use anything else. A tip for the cracks, us some latex caulking to fill in any little cracks and corners etc. Then prime and paint.

[cvriv.charles]

I am thinking about tearing those stairs I built down. Reason being that I am very sure I want to make the small room my MM room. Reason being that everything will be contained within that room. Noise, any dust, etc. The room is 9ft wide and like 20 something feet long. But the stairs would be kind of close to the MM. Im thinking about installing an attic stairs again. This way I can close it getting it completely out of the way. Plus I wont have to hear it from the inspector about the stairs not being to code.

I have the electrical coming out today. I will talk to him about wiring some 240V outlets along with a few 120's in that small room.

OH,... and the ceiling is only 96" the dust collector I was looking at is a 4 bag, 4Hp, collector. its 101 in height. if I do not OSB the ceiling I can fit that between the ceiling beams. But I do want to OSB atleast the ceiling in that room. I want to keep that room cold for the MM. I was thinking about keeping the dust collector in the bigger room on teh other side of the wal and running the hose through the wall.

[cvriv.charles]

Its actually cheaper per sheet here. $7 for osb and $12 for sheetrock. :) I have done three garages so far with it and will not use anything else. A tip for the cracks, us some latex caulking to fill in any little cracks and corners etc. Then prime and paint.

Not by me. 6 for 3/8 sheetrock and 9 for 7/16 osb. I will use latex caulk for fine cracks.

[cvriv.charles]

Sweet I found a concete grinder for rent by my house! Im going to fill in the drain with concrete. Once hardened I will then rough grind the whole floor down so its smooth and flat. I might be able to grind enough away so I dont have to patch the large chipped areas. Just grind them away. I might be able to grind away the area of the floor around the drain enough so thats its not sloping down towards the drain as much. Nice and flat. Awesome.

[Gerald D]

The concrete grinder's rental rate is per day and per millimeter of head wear. You normally spend more on the wear of the grinder blocks.

[cvriv.charles]

That i dont care about. If I can grind the floor down to the way I want it,... i'll pay it.

Problem is though,... been reading on some of the rental sites, their concrete grinders are wimpy. Only removes finishes. A very thin layer. I need something thats going to seriously eat the concrete. I'll have to keep looking.

[MetalHead]

This is what you need
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-0vYNPs8Ao&feature=related

Or like this one I have
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTpxQ3zhvcw&feature=related

The trick is the grit stones. 80 will mill down the concrete very quickly.

If you can rent a setup like the first video that comes with a Vac that is the way to go. TONS of dust doing this work.

In this economy call some garage refitters in your area and they will probably hook you up for a goo price. SHould be in the $3.50 to $4.50 a square foot to surface and finish your floor. No more that $6 I would think a square foot.

Get bids. You may find it cheaper and faster to pay someone else to do the work.

Here is a good video explaining why to sub this out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAGFEmFIGe8&NR=1

[Gerald D]

We control the dust by wet grinding.

[KenC]

I'm really puzzle... from where I'm from, we grind granite, marble & other natural stone floor. BUT When it comes to concrete, we just hack the whole lot & re-pur the floor... then poweder float the surface if we wants smooth finishing...

2" concrete is way too thin in my part of the world, we actually pour as thick as 3" for our badminton court with grade 25 concrete. + 1 layer of A1 mesh.

For workshop, we go minimum 4" thk with grade 35 & 2 layers A2 mesh. 6" is very common. with at least 3" thk compact stone sub base, 4" bakau piles at 1yd c/c grid if neccessary.

[cvriv.charles]

Well,... there's one place that has exactly what I should get.

Electric dual disc grinder:
http://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equipment/equipment.aspx?itemid=0320040&catid=s340

The special vac:
http://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equipment/equipment.aspx?itemid=0320410&catid=s339

Its about 90 a day for EACH. And im assuming I have to buy the discs. How many discs I need,... I dont know. I could probably get it done in a day. My garage is about 700sqf.

Then theres another place where there site isnt specfic at all about the grinder they do have. It says gas/ electric. I emailed them and they said,

"We carry the grinders for your application. You would use an electric dual head grinder w/ abrasive stones. The grinder rents for $80/Day or for the weekend. The set of stones is approx. $39.00. If your garage is big, I can give you an extra set and whatever you don't use you can return. We close at 4:15 today."

Dont know if it comes with the vac though. But like Gerald said I can probably just wet the floor down good. I might give this a go next weekend.

[cvriv.charles]

I just noticed now that they attached pdf files to that email. Its 80 a day for an electric dual head Edco. Pretty much like the one in the second video you posted metalhead. Dont think it comes with the vac.

Do you think I should get that and just keep the floor wet for dust control? Im thinking yes. The other is very much the right tool for the job but we're talking 180 a day easily. What do you think?

[MetalHead]

You can use a shopvac on the unit if you have one. Wet grinding is a mess in a finished house. If you have Sheetrock on the walls you can't get those wet.

Wet works good for big open wharehouses. Not so easy to control in a house. You should be able to get the vac as well for a few dollars more. They can tell you what grit you need, but typical grinding uses 80 grit.

The electric units come in two flavors - 110 and 220 . The 220 model will typically will be able to be ran on your dryer plug without isses. You will need a 20amp or better circuit for the 110 to keep from blowing the breaker constantly.

Best time to rent these is over a holiday weekend and work out the deal with the supplier to let you pick it up late the day before you start.

Say you have a Friday, Saturday , Sunday holiday. Tell them you want to pickup the machine at just before COB on Thursday and you take it back at SOB (Start of business) on Monday.

This should still trigger a one day rental. If not just tell them you will go see someone else in your area who will rent to you like this.

Don't be suprised if it takes you a lot longer than you figured to get the floor like you want it.

Also keep in mind you will not be able to get the last 2 or 3 inched next to the wall. That has to be done with a hand grinder. They make a hand grinder stand to do this so you don't have to crawl around on the floor.

More reading for you.

http://www.edcoinc.com/floor-grinders-2ec.html

But I am no expert :D ...... Just did a lot of research when I was looking to get into the garage refit business.

I would call a few folks in your area and atleast get 3 bids just to see what folks are willing to do in this economy.

[MetalHead]

One more thing. If you are only wanting to "scale" the floor and "open" up the pours by peeling off a micro layer of concrete and and flaky concrete.

You can use a buffing machine with a 80grit sanding pad instead of a full blown grinder. They prep the floor for paint and epoxies very well.

http://www.floorbuffers.com/Qstore/p001908.htm

Ask about these types of machines.

[cvriv.charles]

Well im resurfacing the floor in my detached garage so water mess is fine. I know it will be sloppy,... I dont care. As long as I get he finish I want.

The guys at the one place said 80 for a weekend. Thats pretty good. Im sure i can squeeze some extra time in there.

I need to do more then just remove the top layer. I need to grind away some damaged spots and flatten out some areas.

Not all that worried about the 2 - 3 inches up against the walls that will be missed. I i can scrub that clean with a steel bush easily. Its mainly the inner floor that needs the work.

I think the electric they are offering is 110v. I have a good 20amp breaker for it. I also have a 220v outlet too.

Thanks for your help.

[servant74]

Sorry for the bleated reply ... sounds like you know what you want to do.

The floor I wanted in a shop ever since I was in college was end grain oak block floor.

Start with a concrete floor, put in 1 to 2 inches of sand, then 4x4 or whatever oak blocks about 6" long (today you can find them 1-2" long) and stack them vertically side by side with then end grain showing. Tamp it down and keep it level. Sweep in some sand to fill in the cracks. Sand it down if you need to with a floor type sander.

It was wonderful to stand and work on. Swept up easily. Absorbed sound, dropped tools didn't break easily, absorbed any drips of oil or liquids within reason, and non-conductive. It was looking good after over 50 years of use when I was there many moons ago (30+ years).

We rolled machine tool carts with steel wheels on it without problems. Large trucks didn't phase it. If a few got damaged, it was fairly easy to put a screw eye in a block, pull it out with a hoist, and install a new one. ... No glue, no nails, but it was indoors (not conditioned year round).

[Regnar]

I havent heard anything about putting flakes down in the paint and I highly recommend this. Reason being is that on rainy, snowy, misty days you will track in water. Smooth epoxy floor are very slippery. I have seen a truck slam into a helicopter with all 4 tires locked up.

I read that you want to get rid of slopes and drains. I woudnt infact I would make your drain bigger if it was me. You can find larger grate sizes that will allow you to stick a 3 or 5 gallon bucket down inside to catch anything that you dont want in the well but for those times that you want to clean the floor. Its just a matter of going in with a hose and squeegee. At work we have a drain that is 3 feet wide by 300 feet long that goes through the middle of the hanger. When we clean out a space we go in with a pressure washer and 5 guys with squeegees. Takes a little under 15 minutes to do 2,000sqft.

If your dust collector bags are what is hitting the ceiling then just get rid of them. In that nice open country of yours I would just install a cyclone and pipe what ever doesnt get caught out the side of the garage. Its usually really fine dust that the cyclone doesnt get and would keep the shop cleaner and not as much maintenance on the filters. Here is a good site for building your own cyclone.http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

Another thing that came to mind is you could build a small shed off the side of garage and house the cyclone in there. I would also build it big enough to house a 60 - 80 gallon compressor. Keep all the noisey, dirty things outside;)

Some day I will have far away neighbors but for now their bedroom is 15 feet away from my garage/shop. I know I would hate to have me as a neighbor.

[swatkins]

I think I would go another route... Renting the machine is one thing, having the skill to produce a finished floor that looks really good is another.. Your going to have a steep learning curve, race against time with the machine rental and then have to clean up a big mess when your through...

I would fill in all the major cracks and drains if you really want them to go and then use use this stuff to level out the floor..

http://www.edisoncoatings.com/store/Level-X52.html

[Johannescnc]

I agree with Ken on this one and would just bust out the old and re-pour a new one...

[Allegheny]

Upgrading the house to 400Amps would be INCREDIBLY expensive. I looked into this ten years ago - just the breaker box and the 400A main breaker were $2k! You don't want to even think about the service entrance cable to carry 400A, let alone to carry 200A to the shop.

Much simpler is to have the electric co run a separate 200A service directly to the shop - it'll have it's own meter and a separate monthly bill. Even a SquareD panel and full set of breakers for it should be less than $6-700. That will actually be a good thing should you ever convert it over to a business.

Brian

[cvriv.charles]

WOW! Thats expensive to upgrade the house to 400a. 600 - 700 for a seperate service of 200a for the garage is very doable. I actually had talked my my electrician and he said if I split the 200a panel in the house so that I had 100a for the house and 100a for the garage that I would probably be just fine. But im assuming it would probably cost as much to have a seperate 200a service installed. I'll have to call and get quoted for the seperate service. 200a would hold me over for awhile.

I didnt get to doing the floors yet in the garage. Been stupid busy working on my basement. Im refinishing it. Im thinking my next weekend off I will do the floors. My girlfriend keeps bring stuff into the garage. furniture and all. Im going to move all that stuff out. Thats my space. She knows that.

[swatkins]

Check on the monthly cost for the two different services.. Our electricity provider charges 27.00 per month just for each meter. Thats 324.00 US per year for each meter alone... Electricity is extra... If you can get buy on one service that would save you some money in the long run...

[cvriv.charles]

Well the etra money spent per year I think will be well worth not having to stress over power issues. With a 200a service I could easily run 2 mm's plus whatever else that needs to be run. I will be making money with my machines so it won't be a big deal. Forking out the initial is what I'm worrying about right now...

With a single service split 100/ 100 I would just barely make it.

[domino11]

Charles,
I have a 200A service in my house at the moment and with it I feed my shop with a 100A breaker. Now when I am in the shop I can use 100A all day long, If you do not have 10 guys working in there, there is now way you will ever use 100A as far as I am concerned. Also you still have the full 200A available to the house (less whatever you are using in the garage). As long as the draw of house and garage is under 200A you are lots safe. I would put in a 200A panel in the garage so if later you really do need a service upgrade once business is booming, you can still use it with the new service feed at a later date, just disconnect from the house and get utility company to run a new feed.

[cvriv.charles]

Charles,
I have a 200A service in my house at the moment and with it I feed my shop with a 100A breaker. Now when I am in the shop I can use 100A all day long, If you do not have 10 guys working in there, there is now way you will ever use 100A as far as I am concerned. Also you still have the full 200A available to the house (less whatever you are using in the garage). As long as the draw of house and garage is under 200A you are lots safe. I would put in a 200A panel in the garage so if later you really do need a service upgrade once business is booming, you can still use it with the new service feed at a later date, just disconnect from the house and get utility company to run a new feed.

Well,... I will get quotes. Because the wire I have is only good up to 50a. so I will need someone to pull that out and replace with a thicker wire. That will involve cutting up some concrete and trenching to the garage. IF that turns out to be the cheaper way I might go with that. But if not or its the same price as the completely new service the garage,... ill go with the new service because atleast that way its one thing I dont have to worry about later. Im going to have a lot of stuff running at one time. Atleast I want to prepare for a lot of stuff to be run at once. 2 MM router, 1 MM plasma cutter, dust collector, maybe a large compressor(if it should start running), and a TIG welder. I definitely see all all this running at once. Maybe minus the plasma cutter because I dont know how much cutting I will be doing with it but you never know. Very possible.