It's alive and cutting! - BS AS Argentina

[zumergido]

well people since i like this projects i will tell you iam ready for the voyage.
i take the blue pill.
introducing my self:
From Buenos Aires, Argentina.
not an ingeniering but with knoledge of electrics, electronics, welding, carpentry, everything i thing is needed to buil this machine. seems easy but i know its not.
iam on the security " alarms, dvr" bussiness, and import from china regullary.
the plan its to build a MM for 3x2 meters of mdf cut.
i have the place.
allready contact leadshine for the steppers and drivers
the MA860H cost 88 U$S ea
motor 86HS45 68 U$S ea
plus shipping and taxes.
belt reducers 3:1 poblably
i will trie to follow the desings but the hybrid MM its inspiring.
first build the kitchen table then i will see. i dont have a mig welder only a 200amp arc welder that never let me down.
i allready have the power supply "swiching" from a old bulk printer "lots of steppers in that machine" 5v 15amp, 12v 18amp,36v ??amps, 48v 15amp. and some little steppers and a 36vdc brushless blower. i buy all that for 100 AR$ "30U$S".
i allready have a supplier of the rack and pinion module 1,5 and the reduction gears,

not including the metal and router i have a cost of -/+ 1300 U$S

so when a finish cleaning the place and do the electrical the MM will rise from the ground.
best regards
Fernando

sry for my english. not practicing much.

[KenC]

Welcome Fernando,
Looking forward to you progress pix soon!
Don't worry about your English, it not my mother tongue either but guys here has huge tolerance.

PS
Our driver + motor combo is identical :D

[domino11]

Welcome!

[MetalHead]

Welcome !!!!

[AuS MaDDoG]

Welcome Fernando!!
and good luck with your build.

Cheers
Tony.

[PEU]

Bienvenido!

[cvriv.charles]

Pablo has some competition now:)

[PEU]

Nahh im not competing, im still at least 5 months away from making a single weld...

[zumergido]

please dont make this a competition..
i dont have cnc experience. pablo does. i have to build a small cnc first to see how all works.

tnks all for the support.

[KenC]

Fernando,
The Mechmate design is bullet proof, I didn't have much CNC experience when I made the first move to build mine. Didn't even bother to waste an extra minute to look at other cnc design after I downloaded thenplans....

[zumergido]

the numbers of the laser parts are ready. 250USS with materials. i think its a really good price.
so iam waiting for the electricity on the "shop". 9x8 meters garage that i will use.
i have "prices" of motors, drivers and laser parts,
so everything its going on v rollers.

[zumergido]

well i have electricity on my new "shop" i will start to build the table and order the laser parts.
i have some pictures of my 30 dollars buy.
switching power supply 48v 11.5amps. perfect for the 34hs9802 motors, plus 5v 10amp, 12,8v 18amps. all the motors and the blower where powered with this supply.
I post some interior for the electronic geeks.
also a servo motor that i dont have information about it. have a glass disk encoder. i lost one. :(
some steppers maybe for a small cnc.
and a transformer that i have for some years more then 10 years i never found utility. it have 35ac and 15amps. plus many other outputs.
a small blower that maybe can work on a small cyclone. only for the MM 48volts servo motor on a blower :eek:

[zumergido]

well i have order 4 34hs9802 plus drivers and BOB.
i hope they arrive soon. i was on my metal supplier this week to see if i can recycle some parts for the MM and other projects. i found some angle iron 50x50x6mm 3 meters long on perfect shape. for 10 dolars a piece. using my super discount. :D
plus i capture a video where some guys trying to disarm a machine for recycling using the washer of death.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnl5RF42Ve8

[zumergido]

iam starting the building very slow. iam going for the table now. i have two upn 22 for side rails intead of the 18. cuz cost me cheaper and they are very straight. but heavy
i put a video how iam tapping threads using a makita impact driver.
more news to come. since i have almost everything from electronics, spindle, metal, motors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz1G3PGwF9c

[domino11]

Welcome Back Fernando! :) Good to see you around.

[zumergido]

ok here again, with news..
i start some weeks ago a couple of hours per day. and its fun?:confused:
strting from the legs. yes 6 legs. i like bugs :p

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-l9E83dUsIEA/UCRbq5IdVSI/AAAAAAAAADs/cRz-4CJKtMg/s640/DSC00862.JPG

then the 8 beams i got blue rust protective paint its a standard blue so maybe its not the MM blue.. i will go benneton mechmate so dont care.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-OROH7iplZ6g/UCRblVWyf9I/AAAAAAAAADk/yYAov-nxBIM/s640/DSC00861.JPG

i got from the scrap yard some oval pieces of 5mm good for the feets. i stick some rubber and done

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xiD_z6dNvcA/UCRbaSXdjTI/AAAAAAAAADU/q2meuaTXX2w/s640/DSC00859.JPGhttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-W5--_BAol7w/UCRb3X1bo3I/AAAAAAAAAD8/L5EKuMi0tK0/s640/DSC00864.JPG

i have to say that most of the parts of my mm will come from scrap. so the gantry beams are made of 4 pieces welded. but are heavy and strong. 5mm thick, i dont remember. i ask if the extra weigth will come a problem and i got a positive go.
thats not fanta. its a little bit stronger.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ciHTQrL5YIk/UCRbVHIWwjI/AAAAAAAAADM/7OfZlJJdjZk/s640/DSC00858.JPG

i want to use bolts on most of the machine for two reasons. one i have plenty of automotive bolts they are hardened. second i will dessasembly and move the machine on the future.
so i have to make many holes. the trick is start with a small bit like 3mm then move on big ones. other thing to have in mind is if you cant make stright holes by hand you will have a high chance to brake your bit and hurt you. and angle holes are not so good for tapping threads. some lubricant its allways good.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-yWPSEJPicyo/UCRcDkpflQI/AAAAAAAAAEM/iUmwtnLRFrI/s640/DSC00868.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Oo28VBzPlqI/UCRcJ1Pgu9I/AAAAAAAAAEU/sEUccsbK5C0/s640/DSC00869.JPG

since i dont have many space on the shop to move the mm i start assembly painted parts. maybe its the hard way but i will go for it.
i got upn 22 beams of 3.5 meters long and i have to say they are HEAVY. iam alone on the shop so i recomend, if you are alone dont go bigger than that. unless you are a body builder.
so i start to bluild the table. remember iam alone. so step by step and many c clamps.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cKjDrKcKk5I/UCRcPl2Vu0I/AAAAAAAAAEc/bndBlK9Kf9M/s640/DSC00871.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-djOOxINfuD8/UCRcU9aGnhI/AAAAAAAAAEk/kM1VgnDWVt8/s640/DSC00872.JPG

another interesting tool is the high-lift :D

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ltxij5AMYSE/UCRca_ub9vI/AAAAAAAAAEs/K088b1bu2Kg/s640/DSC00873.JPG

and done. i have a table to work.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GroDL3A77sQ/UCRcgobMGnI/AAAAAAAAAE0/XMm9W6GRqII/s640/DSC00874.JPG

look like a MM but dont work. maybe some parts missing. damm. more work :mad:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9vlslv7FrQM/UCRcmKOfOVI/AAAAAAAAAE8/z83he-zmKXI/s640/DSC00875.JPG

now its time for the rails. if i knew it wass so hard something that looks so simple........ ok never mind.
i think the table is esential to this part.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4_1adJH1hx8/UCRcxXQcl-I/AAAAAAAAAFM/y5Qf0p1Adx8/s640/DSC00879.JPG

dont go for the thin disk i use 6 to cut one rail. than i change to the more expensive one. some bosh disk for stainless steel. one and a half i use.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HfbIn5ruBeg/UCRcrxlR3VI/AAAAAAAAAFE/4-4JM8uqZFg/s640/DSC00878.JPG

i dont recomend the use of gloves and eye protection, i demand it. but some times its not enough. yes it hurts and the worse part those are my favorites gloves.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KzwVmh9IrIk/UCRc2zp1oUI/AAAAAAAAAFU/qcDZgPXkBpI/s640/DSC00880.JPG

finally the rails are done so its some for more c clamps and see how they looks like,
btw .. yes they are not the recomended size but they fit fine.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-JucJvc_Q7YM/UCRdHZw-5nI/AAAAAAAAAFs/CrAggn3eX1Y/s640/DSC00885.JPG

i use 1/4 tork bolts maybe they look small but NOT. they are fine, plus a got many of them

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-gLr8RonSqiE/UCRdWV-ULOI/AAAAAAAAAGE/VgCa0RnSdjU/s640/DSC00888.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-RYNRAJiA6Js/UCRdLakk7aI/AAAAAAAAAF0/FfHbsPcHmmY/s640/DSC00886.JPG

the weels look fine very happy with them.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KJ2rkZlKfRs/UCRc8OU30nI/AAAAAAAAAFc/tio6wpfM6sE/s640/DSC00881.JPG

then the fun part. make the rails straight.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-gLr8RonSqiE/UCRdWV-ULOI/AAAAAAAAAGE/VgCa0RnSdjU/s640/DSC00888.JPG

traying to skip some parts. nop.... need more work. dammm :mad:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-R21i8tO9o8k/UCRdcDAPCSI/AAAAAAAAAGM/U4rPIgCfzdY/s640/DSC00889.JPG

ok time for the gantry. have to say that the parts fits really well so there is no trouble.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-MfSkB8dICIk/UCRdhwaezbI/AAAAAAAAAGU/FlAM_4CTBN8/s640/DSC00890.JPG

ok its one trouble, iam and idiot. i cut the beams too short. :confused:
not one.. two times. i will blame some one else..
i have to hire somebody. :rolleyes: the boss never gets wrong.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5bgTKvTTZY0/UCRdmiaotII/AAAAAAAAAGc/9tqeA_mF5pk/s640/DSC00891.JPG

still need some adjusts. but the gantry rools very smooth. think i can make the mm. ;) untill now i have two options. a mechmate or a rock solid ping pong table.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-x_fbp5CiriY/UCRdruvh9dI/AAAAAAAAAGk/x_EV76kjWHc/s640/DSC00892.JPG

i hire some one to help me. :p
cost me some scrap metal and a couple of hours.. hope the roof dont go down. can handle 250 -- 500 kilos and will help on the future to load the MM.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IiDPDV9896E/UCRd0c4edfI/AAAAAAAAAG8/K8E1BsvNOjA/s640/DSC00893.JPG

its so easy to paint when the parts floats in the air.
my new employee its so helpfull.. i will finish him later. if its doesnt fall off first.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-D4cQdtLZQBE/UCRd3FXD3qI/AAAAAAAAAHM/lafBvxV0EhA/s640/20120809_191705.jpg

ok here is the story of one month of work.
still many things to do.. will see.

special tnks to PEU who sell me the parts a year o so .. ago..

[zumergido]

i use to buy scrap metal from a place that recycle it. they bring old machines, metal structures, they destroy most of the things. but some times iam on the right time and saves some parts. like this ones.

6 linear rails. in perfect shape. 720mm the big one. maybe for a small cnc.. who know. cost me 30 uss if i do the convertion.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-90Abe7XkVok/UCRdtCPRRpI/AAAAAAAAAGs/uaFYIGVxyes/s640/20120807_172133.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fb4OYOxrtVE/UCRduxsDU6I/AAAAAAAAAG0/w0nno3lw3Dw/s640/20120807_172150.jpg

[PEU]

Ya va tomando forma!! 30 bucks for the rails? where did you found such a deal?


Pablo

[zumergido]

within the scrap maybe you get some gold. this time some rails. they are nsk lz25. didnt take pictures from where i disasemble them but it wass pretty heavy. 4 hours just to take the rails from it, but you know they worth it.
tomorrow i finish some paiting and start the electronics. if you like you are invited to make the first dust. or second.

[PEU]

la verdad que si vale la pena, es de un desarmadero? hace mucho que no voy a uno, me parece que voy a tener que retomar el habito... de que era la maquina de donde salio eso?

[zumergido]

compraron chatarra de una automotriz y habia una mesa que pesaba como 200 kilos que se movia en varias direcciones sin motores ni nada electrico. no tengo idea, era una cosa rara. los vi de casualidad.

[zumergido]

another news.
the machine goes well. i found some trouble with the gantry, is not square. not even a little. so have to use this procedure http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231 but i dont have enouth room to place more spacers on the v weels. but the wrigth side is i dont like the rails i made so i will make a new ones and place them leaving more room for the spacers.

other thing is the cable chain. never found a supplier that charge me what a piece of plastic really cost. almost 100uss per meter.
so i buy a aluminum tube 80x40 mm and a flexible tempered iron strap 60x0.60 mm and ¡voila!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B74iQ0dmB-c&feature=plcp

work perfect. if you do this remember its tempered blue metal. very very hard to make holes. use a press drill and prepare to waste some drill bits and make a lot of sparks..

[KenC]

WOW!!! LOVE THAT CABLE CHAIN!!!
Please show more details, I MUST make one!

[Gerald D]

The cables will rub a lot inside that "chain" because the fixed length is offset to the side of the chain.

The idea with the expensive chain is that the center of the "pipe" is held to a fixed length. The cable does not have to slide when the chain bends,

[KenC]

Hi Gerald,
Do you think This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e5Gzn5XFcY&feature=related) is more appropriate?
Like Fernando, I can't find a proper price for the plastic. :o

[zumergido]

gerald i get the point and i have consider that. maybe its not a big problem. y have another desing a little more complex "no cnc parts needed" maybe i will do it for the Y-car since make holes to the tempered metal its a pain.

KEN. peu have made chains too and i have some good desings. but i need chains to build a machine to build chains.
dont know whats wrong with this people. its plastic 100%

[danilom]

At greater lengths you really need a good strong chain and for extra length you need a chain that will fall and glide on the other end in the tray

[PEU]

Fernando, llama a Varitel (www.varitel.com) en su momento los precios eran 1/3 de los de IGUS, si no recuerdo mal, algo de 40 dolares el metro.

[HomeMadeCnc]

Awesome build so far! Keep going, this machine will change your life as its done to mine. Dont forget about the software side of things, its a major player in the system.
Good Luck
Tim #79

[zumergido]

mecanic and electrical parts are the easy part.
now software is another thing. mach3 or emc. then some engeneering soft like solidworks and other.

i dont have much experiecne in any of those. just mach3 a very little, right now iam looking on how to use modbus on mach3 using brains.

[HomeMadeCnc]

Well I use Mach3 just because its popular and most folks can help you out with the setup. May I suggest www.vectric.com a very good software base and its not that hard to learn. Solidworks is an awesome program but its a steep learning curve (at least it is for me).
Keep going its the tool in the shop!
Cheers
Tim#79

[zumergido]

ok .. lets keep the updating.
since i found to linear guides extras i will use a couple for the Y slide.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Eal8eKm4cZk/UFuJjlFy77I/AAAAAAAAAIo/olODycb270Y/s640/DSC00907.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6jwSo3FnZxg/UFuJm1T5ZXI/AAAAAAAAAIw/OupzSPbzZ5c/s640/DSC00910.JPG
everything looks better with love a some cleaning. the little bearing is from the first pack i found those little ones to the MM, so i keep the big ones for a possible Y axis on a new machine.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wrURV-650UI/UFuJSLu872I/AAAAAAAAAIA/8RNB0dr0Ldo/s640/DSC00899.JPG
my wieght test. 3 pickup tyres complete with rines. no idea why i did this.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4-H8eNDj5ec/UFuJbuTbmZI/AAAAAAAAAIY/jtirQuaOiok/s640/DSC00903.JPG
ok this is a last time modification. i know is not the best way to keep the table straight but i have 6 legs and the own weitgh of the structure keep it rigit.
why i did this. next picture.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NbOm2lO9CbY/UFuPuU2VtqI/AAAAAAAAAJE/ObbBRCzItcY/s640/DSC00911.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-RxlSsu6Mi-0/UFuP16fjCtI/AAAAAAAAAJM/63KP-6qpdjg/s640/DSC00912.JPG
i dont have much place to put boards. so make a bed with 4 weels. nothing fancy. and almost costless. i recomend this. under the table is a lot of space.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-pZwXuFb4dC0/UFuP8STZ5GI/AAAAAAAAAJU/vLgymCCS5ww/s640/DSC00914.JPG
cuthing a 9mm thick piece of metal for the Y slide. just to show that the grinder adaptor is a great tool. iam using a dewalt 818 900w grinder. fits perfect. and is a beast.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-nY7p9RblsYI/UFuQB-HGlFI/AAAAAAAAAJc/lOMbHAenUKA/s640/DSC00916.JPG
final design.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ifttWzXXKa4/UFuQMJQ3PrI/AAAAAAAAAJk/L2ws9BjwYW0/s640/DSC00917.JPG
with the linear bearings.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-fyL5nTltDQs/UFuQWapM52I/AAAAAAAAAJs/Be50V_15qMA/s640/DSC00918.JPG
presenting the project.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-POaxRqM_uQY/UFzTgWqa-yI/AAAAAAAAAKA/ZnqS_YtzgWk/s640/DSC00920.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-IeM0P9FMsdI/UFzTp2I9k1I/AAAAAAAAAKI/tOR7bE51ne4/s640/DSC00921.JPG
done with the rack screwed. i cut some extra metal to remove some kilos.
i did some video so you see how is working. with help of my employee.
http://youtu.be/juphC9-TtxI

[Alan_c]

I dont know if this has been mentioned before, but your cross members under the table appear to be mounted incorrectly. I see you have them "flat" with the broad face fixed to the bottom of the main beams, they should be mounted "vertically" with one of the narrow faces against the bottom of the main beams - this would be much stronger and you table would defelect less.

Why is the Z plate so long?

[zumergido]

hi Alan.
yes they are more efective vertically. i put them like that becouse i bolt them with 2 bolts and found more space that way, not a big problem if you sum 8 pieces.. and the maximun weight is some boards.

[Surfcnc]

Hi Fernando

Your machine might benefit from some more cross bracing for the legs.
Cross bracing is most effective when it goes across the full length of the diagonal.
The plans show an effective and cheap way to brace the underside of the table.

The reason bracing is required is that the load on the CNC machine is not static and downward like a heavily loaded kitchen table might be.
As the heavy gantry, Y car and Z axis move around they will set up oscillations that need to be controlled.
The faster these components move the more inertia they have.
So despite the machine feeling solid in a static position, a moving machine may require extra stiffening.
Each single additional cross brace you add will provide substantially more rigidity in the table base.

Regards
Ross

[zumergido]

ok its alive.
i got the gears and the first thing i do is make it run. just wired to the computer using the first cable i found.
i didnt find the shield cable for the spindle. so i was a little worried about the interference. at this point i dont see any loose step. do a comparator test and was succefull.
now have to square the gantry, finish some cables, do cable chain for the gantry, conect limits, conect the inverter to mach3, and learn how to use all the software.
i do a rs232 modbus that have 7 output relays, 10 digi inputs, pwm out, mpg support, and some analogics inputs. i will use the lpt port only for the motors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-waHk0a_ac&feature=g-upl

[zumergido]

is anyone use serial modbus io cards
i have made this one. just buy the board and the pic.
configure some relays to control lights and inputs to control start, stop, estop, home sensors, probe. works good. just left the lpt port for motors only.
what can be a good setup for lights and swiches? what are the fundamental setup. considering that this cards cost like 30 uss and you can put one on each serial port usb serial works great. the hard part is program the brains on mach 3 the brain interface is very limited.
its desing by a guy here in argentina.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NAPao2BXt6o/UIwv8mwsaNI/AAAAAAAAALE/dG9ikUtRhIk/s640/DSC00932.JPG
tnks.
iam having some trouble doing circles. they are not exactly round. have to do more tests to bring the problem to forum.

[zumergido]

doing the reduction system.
doing some experiment of how to do the pulleys. will use 5M gates powergrip. i was thinking on 15mm but the 9mm are really strong.
since i dont know anything about pulleys i found this page very usefull
http://www.fulong-drivingbelt.com/entable/pro_07-2.htm
using corel draw and vectric i did a test on aluminum that have a error on calculation.
then a fix it and do it on acrilic to know how big the belt have to be.
its the first time i do something like this
what do you think?

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Pp5kRY-oHZ4/UJ6kpZWB78I/AAAAAAAAALY/k8k07flwqBE/s640/DSC00933.JPG
i dont have a 3.12 mm drill bit so i use 3.25 mm for the tooth.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-aitW-TQNrXk/UJ6lPEpXQrI/AAAAAAAAALg/8Q2BzqDAPyU/s640/DSC00934.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5abwv_AsSsk/UJ6lueZ4bZI/AAAAAAAAALo/iRB2PnfmYGU/s640/DSC00935.JPG
have to see very close to the 0.13mm gap. i still belive they will not have any backslash

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RPOdsAfEPU4/UJ6mF_UbB2I/AAAAAAAAALw/zu0Th4OrUx4/s640/DSC00937.JPG
i made a 45 and 15 tooth pulley. just to test. final pulley will be on aluminum

cheers

[MetalHead]

That is cool.

[HomeMadeCnc]

I'll have to keep this method in mind, thanks for sharing

[PEU]

Fernando, si no funcan acordate que tengo cortadas laser las reducciones modelo castone, las poleas, las correas reforzadas y los rulemanes con labio.


Pablo