Frame Built and Painted now Electrics time !!! - Cha-Am Thailand

[selbuss]

Hello all
My name is Stein-Erik and I’m from Norway but live now in Thailand
Have read in this forum for over a year now but still not sure on everything involved to finish the maschine,hope i can ask if i get in trouble
Started my first cnc machine last year and now I’m starting on the MM
Table: 3000x2000 mm
4 motor: OM PK 299-F4.5A Unipoler?
Spindle: china 2,2kw with HY 02D223B VFD
waiting for the laser part made in Thailand, this have been my biggest problem to find a company for making the laser part but now i found it. The steel was also difficult to find the right dimension so for x beam i have 200x80x8cm
for the table i have 78x40x5 and the y car 98x48x2.2cm
have the most of cables and electric but cannot find a toroid transformer so i have to find a regular on but not sure what type,
so far i have cut the most of the steel and working on howe to build the control box ,have no date for finishing the machine but will work on it as a daily basic if I’m not on a motorbike trip or cooling down at the pool or have trips around Thailand. For over a year now i have been to china Town in Bankok
looking for parts in the town that never sleep and that is fun and luckily i have manage to find the most of the part for the machine and cheap too.

Oops tried to upload some picks but i cant find ut hove

[KenC]

Welcome to the club.
You can use E-I core tranny, or any type of core for the matter. just stick to the same specification. I'm sure you can get them custom wound in Bangkok too.

[selbuss]

Thanks for that yes iv seen in bankok but at that time i look for toroid tr, is the spec the same as 25x25v?

[KenC]

I think so, Voltage depends on motor phase inductance & your motor driver max voltage capacity. I'm not familiar with OM motor, I'm using 86HS9801 chinese motor w/o the gear head.
The are more then enough info here, use the search button & keep reading.

[domino11]

Welcome Selbuss!

[selbuss]

thank you Heat
and thaks to Gerald and all of the proffs at this forum that have get me addicted to this, please dont comment my bad enlish if i type somthing wrong

[selbuss]

i talk to the company that sells rack and piniong and they sad that a 24 teeht gear have a pitch diam. of 24mm and the rach teeth to teeth is 3mm on ther modul 1 is this rigth?

[danilom]

Module 1 means 3.14mm between middle of teeth slope so its simply teeth distance. and yes its ok

[selbuss]

Thank you for quick reply Danilo
Then i can order my racks and piniongs today, i go for one set of 24 teeth and one set of 30 teeth i plan to build a gearbox 3.3:1 and have a 60 teeth gear and a 18 gear teeth give me a holding torque of 2046 if my calc are rigth and wierd my motors half coil unipoler with a transformer 35VAC,800VA if this is to mutch i hope somone can correct me

[danilom]

35VAC will give you after capacitor and rectifier an 49.5V DC if my calculation is correct,

OM PK 299-F4.5A have 2.5mH inductance and if you calculate 32*sqrt(2.5) its 50Volts maximum, I would run them a little lower if possible.

Someone using PK 299-F4.5A would give a better opinion, or just search the forum there are plenty of posts about power supply

[selbuss]

ok so if i go for antec 220v,, 25+25v it will give me 39V rectified

[selbuss]

i try to figure out what bob i need some say the the PMDX-122 is the safest and i look at the PMDX-125 with Geko drive 203V becaus i want to have 4 axes at the end of building my machine any coments on that?

[selbuss]

now i have order the bob and drivers from Steve
also order the rack and piniongs
for my machine i need 9mbut the company says that they only have 4pcs of 2000x15x15mm
but they have plenty of 1000x12x12mm so i order what they have on 15x15mm and one met of 12x12mm for the z slide or i have to wait for 6mnds. hope that i can use the 12x12mm
and to day i found my toroidal transformer and they promis i have it in one week and it is 10 mm shorter than the spec on AN-8225
The cabelchain i order take abouth 4 weeks to arrived and the brand name is KODUCT 40x25mm inside

[selbuss]

Steel arrived
9014

9015
some lectric
9016

9017
spindel as it arrived
9018

9019
start to cut
9020

[bradm]

Something looks wrong with the water connections to that spindle - like someone cut them off. Is it obvious to you how to connect hoses to the spindle?

[SumBum]

I assumed he photo'd and worded it like that because of the bad fittings there. I hate when expensive things come obviously defective. Maybe an easy out and some new fittings will take care of it quickly.

[KenC]

Selbuss, is that how you planned to cut all your steel? You must be a real tough guy! With the nerve of steel & armored skin! Those Muitai practice sessions sure pays off!

[selbuss]

hi brad the water connection var broken when i get it grom the mail and now i have new connectors on the way and have taken out the rest of the treads standing in the spindel

[selbuss]

hi Ken
yes this is the way i do it and im nearly finish cutting the steel,its not like the rest of the world to get tools easy here in thailand,took me over a year to find a company making my laserpart and when i find it i have to explain for them in details hove to do so now im vaiting for the finish part to arrived but its not so expensive so if the parts not correct i let dem make new parts

[Kobus_Joubert]

Show us what you are hiding under that car-cover.

Look HOT.

[MetalHead]

I was just thinkin the same thing !! What you hiding under the cover?

[selbuss]

The first 2 picks is from des 2009
and the last picks is from jan 2010 and now im waiting for my new engine and transmissin fro USA, i order a 650 HP bluprinted engine W/TH700 4 speed transmissin from Engine factory in usa so hopefully i resived my new engine and TH700 soon
[/attach][/attach]attach]9025
[/attach][attach][attach]

[SumBum]

69 Riviera?

[vishnu]

Hi Selbus,

Welcome to the den. i think you have a BBB already :). Good luck on your endeavor.

Vishnu

[Kobus_Joubert]

I like I like.. Thanks for sharing

[Gerald D]

An amazing amount of "MechMate blue" in all the pictures above! :D

[liaoh75]

Nice wheels, does Thailand charge tax based on the size of the size of the engine? In Taiwan, we would have to pay a king's ransom annually to keep plates on a beauty like that. Looks like you are off to a good start. Good luck with you build!

[selbuss]

hi David
the tax is only 10% of the invoice
here is a pic of the engine
9033

[selbuss]

have now finisk nearly all steelwork on the machine and start on the electronic.....:confused:
here are som photos:

[selbuss]

The electronick give me a little challange and i hope some at the forum can help me out,
i have the PMDX-122 and geckos G203V PK299-F4a motors,china spindel and VFD,but i will try to use the PMDX-125,Smootstepper,PMDX-107 and PMDX-108 input and i am not shure that i understand hove to connect the VFD to PMDX-107 so if anyone can look at my attacted DXF file i be happy,
Thanks in advanse

some more photos

[cnc'tje]

wow,

Thats what i like to call beautiful mechmate blue :D

Keep those pics coming. . .

[selbuss]

do some progres to day on the rest of the parts to be painted, but the paint i put on before the weekend sems to have somting like a cracing so i have to take all the paint off and repaint all, have talk to the store where i get the paint
and they will come and look at it, i think it can be that it is to hot to paint here now the tempratur is nearly 40 degreas at daytime, but this i told the stor when i bay the paint and they sad is was ok,
so to morrow i know what they think of the situasion in the mean time i work on the electronic and i have to addmit that ive bin addicted to the work at the hossmachine webside:Hoss Machine (http://www.hossmachine.info) and the stuff he have done with his milling machine, so that i will try to build in to my MM too. That is because my MM is built for fun and a project for me as retierd.:)

[Sergio-k]

Hi Selbuss

Nice progress.

Have you tried to connect your VFD with your PMDX-107 with success ?
I'm trying to make mine work with a USB to RS485 cable with no luck so far.

Sergio

[selbuss]

Hi Sergio
No i have not connect i yet, want to be shure that i do it rigth before i connect it so i read the forum tracing if i can find somthing that make me shure, and i have not find new fittings for the watercooling yet so before i have that i will not do anything with the spindel, in the mean time i hope to find the rigth diagram for the electric,hope you get your spindel working soon :D

[KenC]

Selbuss, our climate is similar. There maybe 2 possble cause of your paint problem. 1stly, direct sunlight, this can bring the temp of the steel to over 90C even with ambient temp of 35~38C. 2ndly moisture, there can be 2 sources, from your compressor or from the atmosphere. If you have wet compressed air, its easy to solve by adding a moisture filter for your compress air line. Atmospheric humidity can be tricky if left unchecked, especially if you paint after a heavy down pour or leaving wet paint overnight in the outdoor. I don't know if you experience this, no doubt that ambient temperature at night is about 28~31C around this time of the year. but it can get as low as 25C in the dawn. Some times you get dew in the morning & can be quiet heavy at times.
One has to time one's painting schedule to go with the nature.
I prefer to start painting 2~3 hours before noon or after the dew are gone, apply the 1st coat & keep the job under shade until its dry to touch then apply the 2nd coat & leave to dry under shade before dust. Leaving it over night in the outdoor for further curing would not be a problem this way. As for me, I painted & cured mine indoors as I did had some space for that.

[selbuss]

Hi Ken
Thanks for the advice
but i have clean air from the compressor and no direkt sunligth, the people from the paint shop com and look at paint and they say that it was wrong thinner for the paint so they will cost the repanting

[KenC]

Ouch... wrong tthinner.. who would thought of that...
BTW, found your gas spring yet?

[selbuss]

not find the gas spring yet but i will try to find some at the lokal car dealers

[selbuss]

can i test the VFD without the spindel connected ?
i have smootstepper and PMDX 125+ PMDX 107 speedcontrol,, have not get the waterpump for the spindell yet so i dont want to connect i before i have the pump

[Sergio-k]

Hi Selbuss

Yes you can test the VFD without the spindle connected to it.
You can also connect the spindle without the water cooling circuit to it, as long as you keep it running for short periods (no more than 2-3 minutes).

[selbuss]

Thanks Sergio
then i will try it today and see if i can get it to work
the machine start to look like a machine, picks to follow:

[Claudiu]

Hi Selbuss,
nice progress with your machine. Please let us know how your combo of smoothstepper pmdx 125 and 107 work together.
Is it possible that the link you stated above should be www.hossmachine.info and not .com?

Greetings

[selbuss]

Hi Claudiu
Yes you are rigth it is www.hossmachine.info
and i will come back when i have tested it out but i have to cnc my new machines from China too, first i take them apart and adjust them and it was fun to operate them when they was but back together
so now i do electronik for tre machine at the same time here are some pics:
Now i can make my own part for the MM

[domino11]

Jealous I am. :):cool:

[Kobus_Joubert]

Me too...please sir adopt me ;)

[myousry]

Hi Selbuss
nice work i've already have the same stepper motor but the dual shaft ones . i will connect them a bipolar parallel i've bought a PMDX-106 not the 107 one . how is your success with the pmdx-107. i won't buy the chinese VFD , i will go for delta one.

[selbuss]

hi myousry

im not finish with my electronic and i will take time to read what i can abouth the object since i am new to this
my motor i go unipolar half coil in the beginning and see hove it works
my choice of the 107 was because i use PMDX-125 and they recomand it
my controlbox was to small so i think i use 2 controlbox one for the trafors and VFD and one for the electronicks
The smootstepper is not show on the pictures since i had not get it when i took the pictures
Have played with the smootstepper and BOB and ewerything work so far
but have not tested the motors and VFD yet
Have built electronicks for the X3 mill and C6 lathe from a G540 and tested it all works fine
Yesterday my new engine and and automatic transmission for the Buick arrived so i have to work with the car also;)

[Sergio-k]

Hi Erik

Just a reminder since you are using the PMDX-125 as i am.
You are going to need a fat cable running to the y-car for those inputs,outputs...etc.
The reason is that in 125 the inputs don't share the same gnd as it was with 122 so every pin must have it's own gnd.
That means for 11,12,13,15 input pins you need an 8 core cable, adding the PMDX E-Stop and 1 output you find yourself with a 12 core cable, which by the way is what i used in my configuration. :D
Plan ahead for those I/Os when you come to the wiring cause you are going to need lot's of them.

P.S. Forgot to tell you that the 125 has also 2 relays J9 and J10 with 10 and 30 amps so it's a good idea to use them for saving some extra money for fancy SSR's and other relays.

[selbuss]

i Sergio
When i tested it to day i can use the same gnd for 11,12,13,15 works fiine at my 125
but when i started up my spindel today at low speed i hade a scriming noise from the front bearing and it got varm after 20 sec
had a little problem with the 107 to get it to work but i manage at the end,
so now i have to dismantel the spindel for inspekting the bearing but i dont know hove to take it apart yet, i try to google it to see if someone have done that yet
as far as the test with the smootstepper+125+107 went well

[digger]

Check this out.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101803&page=2

there are some photos, maybe helpfull to you.

[PEU]

my motor i go unipolar half coil in the beginning and see hove it works my choice of the 107 was because i use PMDX-125 and they recomand it

Selbuss can you enlighten me? what is the use of the PMDX 108 (not sure if yours is input or output) used in combination with the PMDX 125 ? it adds extra pins? Im confused :) I already purchased a 125 and now Im not sure if I need the 108 or not.

Thanks!

[selbuss]

hi Pablo
i bay the 108 input to get more buttons to play with when i make my controlboard
i want to use the MM without the computer if i can

[myousry]

hi selbuss i need a favour from you. could you check up the inner body of the spindle regarding the kind of metal that contains the water coolant system whether it's aluminum or anything else as there is a very important matter regarding the corrosion of the coolant system since your dismantle your spindle
thanks a lot

[myousry]

hi selbuss
by the way how are you going to cool your spindle by using a simple pump and buckets
or by using a radiator, reservoir ,and a pump

[selbuss]

I had to make some tools to take the spindel apart and after that i find that all the screws wer cut off that hold the backing plate so the plate follow the spindel when it rotate,luckely i dont run it more than a couple of sec. before i stop.After some strugling i get out the rest of the srew and the chinese srew was as soft as butte so i change it to hi grade srews, at the beginning i was afraid that the srews i put on was to hi head on but after meshuring the higth between the srews and the motorwindings i had 0.7 mm clearens so it was ok.
So now i have tested the spindel and all work OK.

Since i dont get the gecko when i order my drives i had to take a picture of one in live HE HE

[KenC]

Selbuss, care to share the bearing number?

[selbuss]

hi Ken
yes i send it to morrow, have it on the computer at the workshop,
some china crap but i use it for now and bay new when i i go Bangkok

[Red_boards]

Hi Erik

Just a reminder since you are using the PMDX-125 as i am.
You are going to need a fat cable running to the y-car for those inputs,outputs...etc. The reason is that in 125 the inputs don't share the same gnd as it was with 122 so every pin must have it's own gnd.
That means for 11,12,13,15 input pins you need an 8 core cable, adding the PMDX E-Stop and 1 output you find yourself with a 12 core cable, which by the way is what i used in my configuration. :D
Plan ahead for those I/Os when you come to the wiring cause you are going to need lot's of them.

P.S. Forgot to tell you that the 125 has also 2 relays J9 and J10 with 10 and 30 amps so it's a good idea to use them for saving some extra money for fancy SSR's and other relays.
Hi Sergio,
Here is the feedback I got from Steve Stallings at PMDX:
"The extra ground pins on the J11 and J12 input connectors of the PMDX-125 are for convenience. They are all the same ground and you could use a single wire (core) to connect all of your switches back to the PMDX-125 board. The E-Stop signal can also share this ground, but I personally like to a dedicated ground for E-Stop for
the sake of clarity.

The output signals on J5 and J6 use PCground and this may not be mixed with the isolated ground on J11 and J12. This is implemented the same as the step and direction signals, that is, we are expecting the devices connected here to have their own signal isolation, or to not need isolation, for example a solid state relay.

The relay outputs on J9 and J10 are fully isolated and none of them are connected to any ground circuit within the board."

I'm just hoping it all starts to make sense when I get the parts :(
Regards
Red

[selbuss]

hi Ken
Sorry for not give you the bearing number before, but have bin buzy
The front bearing (2 pcs) have this nr:

H7005C TN1-2RZ UTE 09111305-1

and back bearing 1 pcs:

B 7002 CETA-RZ

[Sergio-k]

Hi Sergio,
Here is the feedback I got from Steve Stallings at PMDX:
"The extra ground pins on the J11 and J12 input connectors of the PMDX-125 are for convenience. They are all the same ground and you could use a single wire (core) to connect all of your switches back to the PMDX-125 board. The E-Stop signal can also share this ground, but I personally like to a dedicated ground for E-Stop for
the sake of clarity.

The output signals on J5 and J6 use PCground and this may not be mixed with the isolated ground on J11 and J12. This is implemented the same as the step and direction signals, that is, we are expecting the devices connected here to have their own signal isolation, or to not need isolation, for example a solid state relay.

The relay outputs on J9 and J10 are fully isolated and none of them are connected to any ground circuit within the board."

I'm just hoping it all starts to make sense when I get the parts :(
Regards
Red

Red

You are right ! :D

What got me confused about the J12 gnd is this from PMDX-125 manual :

"6.0 Input Signals
6.1 General Purpose Inputs

.....Mechanical switches can be wired directly between the input pins on J11 or J12
and adjacent GND terminals.

.....WARNING - The PMDX-125 inputs are optically isolated from the PC-side ground.
The terminals on J11 and J12 marked "GND" are NOT the same ground as any
other connector on the board. Connecting any "GND" terminal on
connectors J11 or J12 to the "PCgnd" terminal on another connector will
defeat this isolation"

Also the thing that J12 GNDs are not having any continuity with each other
made me think that each GND has to be connected to it's adjacent pin.

[selbuss]

hiSrgio
yes i tested it and it worked out fine but i forgot to think of the E stop have two switsh so i get short on one wire so now i have to put another wire for the proxy sensors so i have one spare for z zero if i need, i also get short on cabel for the spindel, this i find out today when i start to connect the cabels, i dont know wher i was thinking but its not a big deal the only thing is i have to go Bangkok to get it but my friend com on the 23 this mnds so i have to pic him up and then get more cabels,, i have get my motors and bob drives for my mill and lathe so they need cabels too
here some pics so far::D

[Sergio-k]

Erik

Very nice !!!
I like the color even if it isn't blue.
Your machine is looking great you are almost there.
BTW did you manage to control your Huanyang with your 107 ?
And if yes can you post your connection diagram ?

Sergio

[selbuss]

hi Sergio
Yes i get my 107 up and go with my bob125
i will send you the diagram when i get to the workshop
my two biggest problem now are the fittings for the water cooling at the spindel and the
gas spring, can not find anything that match to use ,
the fittings i think i metrics about 10mm or so and the gas spring have to travel 350mm
the nearest i come was a travel of 200 or 550mm but that is to big, so if anyone have order a car gas spring or now the car that match please give me a mail

[selbuss]

Sergio
here you have the diagram i use:

[Sergio-k]

Thx a lot Erik.

I think i'll give it a try with the 107 since i can't get my RS-485 to work with
my VFD.

[zigmart]

What settings did you have to change to get the 107 to work with your VFD. I have a 106 and all I can do is spindle on/off, no speed control. Any help would be appreciated

[selbuss]

What bob do you use?
i use the PMDX-125 and first i check that the 107 get the signal and measure out that it regulated the 10 volt to the 107 then i hooked up the VFD as my drawing in post #64 and then everything work OK, i don't have the same speed at the VFD as i have in mach3 but it only different 20 to 40 rev so i think its ok, maybe your setting in the VFD is wrong i had some work about that in the beginning and don't remember what setting that make the problem but i can send you the settings if you need it, just now I'm not at the workshop so i don't have it here,

[selbuss]

New pictures
As for now my machine is up and working, at the moment my camera is not working and i wait it back from the dealer but things take time her in Thailand and i have waited for over one mnd now but i get my SD card back so i can post some old picture

[zigmart]

I got it working sort of. It turns the spindle on, and changes the speed, but the set speed is nowhere near the speed the spindle turns. The changes you made to the vfd settings and the mach 3 settings you are using would be very helpful!

Thanks in advance

[selbuss]

ok i see if i can get it to morrow, i dont remember the settings right now, but it has to do with the calculation between speed control and VFD

[selbuss]

try to hange PD144 Rated motor revolution to 3000 - (when you multiply this 3000 by the Min voltage of 8, you get the top speed of the spindle - 24000 revs.
thats all i have for now