Building a Wall mounted Slanted base - Stockholm Sweden

[oopz]

The reason i ask is that I'm gonna build a Slanted Base Machine..
And then all kinds of questions appear...:)

So IF anyone already done it please let me know

IF someone have experience or interesting thoughts
let me know..

I have an Idea but .. "..more minds is more input and sometimes more reliability.." etc..

thanks ahead :cool:

/oopz

[domino11]

See Tilting or hide-away MM? limited floor space (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1597)

[oopz]

HEHE yes thanks ..!!

/oppz

[oopz]

When Iv was reading this link
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1597

I saw and felt that ok now its time do it.. letting the wall feel the power from
a slanted steel base. Of course there is questions to solve.

I will try to hold myself to the KISS-model.. but sametimes U feel U have to do it samwhat more complicated and its ok ..:p

SO what is the plan...
- get away to get the first batch of metal

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu233/astro-goya/BIGBamse.jpg all parts are not in the pic..

- and I will post a ruff picture of the basic base design

- further more do I need to ask Mr Gerald about:
"...A constantly energised DC motor can be used as the "counterweight"...":)
I had all the 99 solutions on the table but that one had got under my radar..

The tempo is a slow build.. and the base will have vacuum-board that will bee used, to do other things with, during the build.

/oppz

[Claudiu]

Good luck with your build. Curious to see this variation of the MM.:)

[oopz]

Thanks Claudiu..!!Nice work you´v done on your machine.
At the moment I´m poking around in the forum and found same interesting things :)
Back into the "reality".. I will put up same more info abut material etc tonight..

/oopz

[oopz]

From my drawings and SO FAR - the cutting sheet is sized to 2400 x 1900mm (8´x6´)
I have worked out my main steel required for the base and table build.
I hope I have not missed or left anything out, otherwise Im shore you let me know.:)

So here we go!!
- Phase 1
90 x 90 x 7mm Box = 2 @ 2700mm (Y axis - ”other legs A” slanted from sealing to floor)
135 x145 x 8mm I- beam = 2 @ 2500mm (Y axis -” inside legs B” slanted from sealing to floor)
100 x100x10 mm BOX = 3 @ 2600mm (X axis - main beams)
60 x60x7mm BOX = 4 @ 480mm (“wall-legs” connected between base and the wall )

In the Pipeline
- Phase 2
100 x 50 x 3mm Box = 2 @ 2020mm (Y axis --- gantry rails)
65 x 50 x 6mm Angle = 2 @ 2020mm (y axis --- V rails)
65 x 50 x 6mm Angle = 2 @ 2600mm (X axis --- V rails)

- Phase 3
The Laser cutting Y-car parts :cool:

And Yes I will upload same drawing on base design.. to

/oopz

[Gerald D]

Oopz, I wish you all the best for this build.

(I have just finished reading Stieg Larrson's books and they brought back great memories of a visit to your country in June 2008 - he also wrote great thrillers!)

[oopz]

Thanks Gerald.. I will do my best ..and because of that i will show You something in blue :D

This first Picture - THE RED/BLACK - machine are the ONE I will focus upon
its not in final shape but ready to see the daylight this photo made more
fore You/Me/Us .. "to get the picture" of what will he do and what is he talking about....:D
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu233/astro-goya/MM%20build%20bilder%202010/FinalUtkastRdSvart2.jpg
- For example it will have a vacuum-board above/inside the base
- I have NOT decided what type of joints between base and floor and the wall
(I have tested a few solutions but are not satisfied..)

This the second Picture - THE BLUE/YELLOW - machine are the ONE I will NOT focus upon :D..
I have same experience thou.. Its very easy to build. Bolt Drill Glue use Hand Riveter&Blind Rivets and of course Welding..!!!
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu233/astro-goya/MM%20build%20bilder%202010/mmblgul.jpg
- But its just for us here in EU and its based upon standardized parts.
- You can as said build the legs and fill them with concrete and/or sand etc
- Its a cheep and according to me a good start for the one who want to test
a slanted base..

With that said why not build base 2 ? The answer is I have that one already BUT it is dedicated for an other machine.
When its finished I promise to show it..

Ok so now you know what I will try to do..

/oppz

Ps the "wall legs was welded today" and will be painted tomorrow..Ds

[Robert M]

This will capture some curiosity from a few….
Nice of you to share !
Wishing you some good luck, but mostly, good results …Keep those pics in :D
Robert ;)

[oopz]

My wife saw this below and teased me throe the dinner..:o
This is wrong !!
90 x 90 x 7mm Box = 2 @ 2700mm (Y axis - ”other legs A” slanted from sealing to floor)
135 x145 x 8mm I- beam = 2 @ 2500mm (Y axis -” inside legs B” slanted from sealing to floor)

This is Right !!
90 x 90 x 7mm Box = 2 @ 2700mm (Y axis - ”other legs A” slanted from upper part of wall down to floor)
135 x145 x 8mm I- beam = 2 @ 2500mm (Y axis -” inside legs B” slanted from from upper part of wall down to floor)

/oopz

[oopz]

Most people me included want to know what things and options cost..
And for me this part is no secret..:p

So here it is:

The Red/Black base... (but NOT Y-axis parts and Y-Car)
5800 SEK .. (567 Euro) .. (825$)

The BLUE/ Yellow base included the white beams (but NOT Y-axis parts and Y-Car)
3100 SEK .. (304 Euro) .. (440$)

Ad shipping to both + concrete and/or sand for base 2 to that... I myself have the fortune to have short way to suppliers.

/oopz

[oopz]

I saw in an other place here on the forum that people wonder what the weight of MM original was.

The MM original..
Weights all together, in total 400kg [880 lbs]
(gantry+y+x)
- with the moving parts being 90kg [200 lbs] (according to Gerald)

This Slanted Base Wall-mounted in total 658kg [1450 lbs] (today)
- the base parts being 423kg [935 lbs]
- with the moving parts being 105kg [230 lbs]
+ the vacuum-board (estimated) 130kg [300 lbs]

So we can be shore of that the base will stand well grounded to earth compared to original MM. Since the weight on the moving parts are near the original AND a counterweight system (on y-axle) will help up performance I don´t think we will get a “slow” machine..

One design criteria was to find a “natural balance” between top and bottom. And also that this prototype after 3 months of cutting, will point on places on the frame design where its ok to go by thinner/lighter material. But still have the parallelism and distance parts intact. And that's where a 100x100 mm (4"x4") box is “friendly” in that perspective. they delivers in thickens from 3mm to 15mm.. The same goes for the I-beams several doable sizes are available. (This is a almost world-wide phenomena..:rolleyes:)

Next criteria was that I wanted it to be “heavy” but not overweight = a good amount of mass.
I'm like Gerald there is not bad with – weight in the right places. So mission accomplished. :D

The thought from my side was to see so there was in-off weight so handling of vibrations, resonances was good. And if the frame is firm in the “right way” then there is reason to believe/expect the repeatability and accuracy perspective is good/decent.

So this about - vibrations etc etc above - also open up for the next coming Post which will be about -Why do I glue the bottom X-beams??
/p

[cab. guy]

Your structure is as strong as its weakest link.In this case the relationship between the lateral forces on the gantry ,combined with the lack of downward force ( gravity ) would make you a prime candidate for linear guides.Claudiu is correct.
Nice base table.

[oopz]

Thats life 2 strong messages in a few days. First from Gerald and now this..;) I have thought a lot about this topic - what type of bearings - And I must agree at least until I (or same one else) may came up with a alternative solution that your right. BUT... linear rails will cost from 7-800$ and >> per axle X and Y. That raise the total cost for slanted base drastic. So from here and forward until a solution appears I have at least a descent build holder for my vacuum-board.:D
/oopz

[servant74]

Please post pictures of what you have done sofar. Take care.

[oopz]

HI Servant74
To bee honest so far Iv been poking around within Gerald's Intellectual property BUT also tested HIS property.. all-thou in a way that might bee seen as "your way".. but still it is HIS... property. ( If it was related to myself I would not be happy IF people did not at least ask me befor they "..drive me over"...) so I leave it there for a while. Is it ment to bee something then I will do it - but - not without that. Gerald he is looking forward and He shall do so !!! Therefore "NO pics".. when we know.. where things stands..or will o etc etc. then we DO THINGs.. What I meen is that Gerald shall have his time TO... also will we as MM nerds do think about.. DO we already know whats best ??... BUT we do ...xxxx :D

SEYA

/oopz

[Gerald D]

I am also curious to see pictures. :)

[swatkins]

Oopz I have been thinking on your problem for a couple of days now.. I don't have time tonight to draw this idea up so I am going to try to explain it...

Take a standard MM layout and imagine it turned to the angle you have pictured in your drawings.. The Y assembly will not be able to roll correctly because of the rollers and weight and probably just fall off the rails.

What would the effect be if you were to add a second rail, at a 90 degree angle to the first, on the top X rail beam. That rail would have to be precisely aligned with the standard rail so that both the old and new set of V bearings would roll true and could in effect carry the weight of the Y assembly. The new rail would help offset the weight issue while the original rail would keep the correct height from the bed.

The existing rack would have to be moved, in some manner, to allow room for the second v rail and a new motor mount devised but that should not be too hard to design around.

Just a though I had :)

[oopz]

servant74: Mr G has has spoken.. so there will bee "pics"

Gerald: thanks :D

swatkins: I have an design idea for (what I call x-axle the long part laying parallel with the floor) it is some what like your suggestion. The Y-axle (between floor and wall) is a work in progress that out of two reasons.

1. its a hobby :)

2. as i said to Gerald .. Change in plans gives Change in plans etc etc
-- as stated above this is A SLOW BUILD..:cool:
-- and this was my plan 2010
-- Jan >>Mars testing ideas and to purchase materials
-- in April-May a presentation of what and how etc
-- first trial run for vital parts (Alfa Candidates) in Jun-July*
-- finished in - September 05 2010...!!

The above timetable is related to other commitments that cannot bee moved or negligeted. Im founder of an event series (8 etch year) in the name of "Welcome to Marrakesh". That at the moment takes 24 / 7. up to 2v in February. Because its an special event "Welcome to Marrakesh Celibrates the Snow" an outdoor event on Ice .. with special guests and Im also performing.

SO WHATS THE CHANGE IN PLANS?
I have put the Red/Black base on hold and will do a real MM Slanted Base.
You will see that in a few pics that I will upload tonight Sweden time.
But I can give you this teaser.. and there are more to come..:)

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu233/astro-goya/MMBrothers001.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu233/astro-goya/MMSlantedBasever001rev100.jpg

SEYA
/oopz

[oopz]

Hi everyone! (this to do to many things at same time gives unclear things).

Its me that have put Copyright mark on the pictures and use the Mechmate name.That because it is Mechmate property what so ever.

The pictures are also shown what i hope will be a next Machmate product.

And yes I think (hope) that this version and further revision on the original version etc etc will cost $$ to buy plans etc.

/oopz

[oopz]

Alo...
I'm want to give you guys the pic. of the X-axle lower part, and maybe in the end also upper X-axle solution .. we will see. The base itself has going throe a small update to I will show you later. The work on bearings inside the Y-Car continues....!!!

And again thanks to swatkins , if we are 2 that have an Idea like that..nice!! Then it might be a lot more that have to.. it must be something - a diffrence :D.. so thanks for your time.!!!

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu233/astro-goya/x-axlelower.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu233/astro-goya/x-axlelowercloseup.jpg

Have a nice weekend !!!

/oopz

[KenC]

Awesome work, oopz.

I'm in the process of building the MM table & because I work on it alone, I have full feel of the weight of the structure, you may want to pay attention to the CG (center of gravety) position, get the CG low enough to enhance stability.

Like your rail concept, i.e. perpendicular rail tracks on an angle bar to keep things in position.
Commends
1) you may not need 3 tracks on each rail, 2 track is sufficient for each track as the top rail will keep things from going up & the bottom rails will keep everything from going down or vice verse.
2) but I don't think it will be easy to achieve a good level of accuracy by the DIY bunch, you may want to consider not having them made in 2 pieces to facilitate easy alingment & compensate production defects.

[oopz]

- Do I´v get U right when U don´t see in the provided pictures that I´v transported weight from top to bottom ?

- The balance is NOT only for slanted OR horizontal machine/base...(its also thoughts about make it easy in the build phase) and A BIG what IF.. :):D

Yes its more economical to not go the "not costly way "in same solution in BOTH the X-axles....regarding to V-Bearings.....(we are talking abut 2 sets of bearings instead of 1)

BUT IF Its important to "NOT give the possibility's" to have THE CHOICE
to go several ways.. when U decide what path/way is YOURS... then U´r right.

I hope that it gives U the answers U and WE need..

I will still go the path ..:)

/oopz

[oopz]

It took a bit longer than second week i february..:( to get back!!

So whats happening both good and less good things.

We have packed ourself out of the old shop ...phuuu..
and will store it to we get access to the new one..

BUT this week drilling and welding base (+ all X-axle functions)..
In the weekend grinding X-axles.

In mid April Y-axle and Y-Cars...:)

And yes there has been same changes to the base :D
It still slanted OHH YES but you will get same idea where I am at
the moment..

There is guys that been there before.:D.

http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24157&postcount=14

Seya in the weekend with same photos!!

[liaoh75]

Cool idea and design oopz. Take your time, do it right. I'll be following this build closely. Have you thought about how you will handle holding down your work pieces? Vac? T-tracks? Will you be using two motors on your Y-axis?

[oopz]

Cool idea and design oopz. Take your time, do it right.
Thanks and YES I will take necessary time to get it right. Actually also have to leave home-base today for same days. Back next week.
I'll be following this build closely. Have you thought about how you will handle holding down your work pieces? Vac? T-tracks?
I will go for Vac BUT with a few T-tracks to. and in this Forum there are alot of creative solutions.. just to mention ONE http://mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=34294&postcount=1
Will you be using two motors on your Y-axis?
We will see, I would like to go on Gerald's proposal as the First Choice.

"...A constantly energised DC motor can be used as the "counterweight"..."

But at this moment its not at the top of the - to do list -:)
But the need for start to dig deeper and learn about the topic it is obvious.

/oopz