New Vacuum Table! #67 - Littleton, NC

[salewis]

It's official as parts have arrived (more to come later). Laser cut parts here (thanks Joe). Some of the "kitchen table" parts in transit, rest to be ordered later in the week..

Yippie Skippy.....

Now the questions begin as we (my building buddy and I) start the process...

We are beginning with the y-car. I have reviewed/printed the y-car welding order in the forum.

I think it makes sense, BUT I want to make sure as I'm much better at the wiring/electronics than the fabrication end...

The part that is referenced on the flat surface is 10 30 455 (tower carrier plate). This is the part (along with 10 30 450 - car carrier plate) that must be "square" with the flat reference plane.

Correct?

I'll post some pics in a bit...

Stan (half of the Stan and Ted team)

[riesvantwisk]

Stan you will have two Tower Carrier Plates. Between these two plates you will put the spider.
10 30 422, 10 30 450, 10 30 455 belong to each other and are going to get assembled in 10 30 000.

Important is that 10 30 422 is flat and straight and non-warping after bending (on the drawings there are notes with accuracy's if I remember...) 10 30 455 should also be reasonable flat (spider get's attached to it)

If any warping occurs then this will be 'corrected' once you start welding 10 30 450 on 10 30 422 (they are profile cuts but you get the picture) since 10 30 450 will fall in the slots shown on drawing 10 30 422 things will get straightened fairly well.

If that's not the case and you put a car carrier plate on there, then the v-rollers might not be square and even to touch the rails , this can be corrected because for this part you will have adjustable V-Rollers.

Also, don't forget to countersink the holes shown on 10 30 450 before welding.... Post some pictures.

Ries

[salewis]

Got the zslide and tube in today from Leo Jones.... Thanks Leo!

PS, ignore the feet :D

[salewis]

My Buddy and I are planning on making a cabinet to house the pc and possibly the control panel/box as others have...

Here's the twist, we'd like to be able to disconnect the pc/control panel cabinet without having to undo/redo bunches of wires and also save on the $$ flex wire (no need to have that from the control panel to the subpanel on the MM).

I have looked at the Amp/Tyco CPC connectors but seem not to find what I'm looking for....

One connector for the steppers (4wire plus shield x 4 = 20 contacts rated at 6a)

One connector for AC router and estop circuits - 3wire plus shield (3-4 contacts w/ 16a rating) and 2 wire plus shield (3 contacts rated at 1A)

One connector for control cable (8 wire plus shield = 9 contacts rated 1a)

any thoughts or other posts to direct me to?

[bradm]

Good connectors are expensive! How often do you plan to disconnect? It may well be that terminal strips inside your control box are actually a reasonable match. Or having the control box move with the machine with disconnects for the power and the computer is more cost effective.

You may find that (4) 4-pin + shield connectors for the steppers is a lot easier and cheaper than a single unified connector.

I would keep the router connection separate from everything else, and since it's legitimately a switched standard power circuit, use the standard edison connectors.

Do you really need 1A contacts on the control cable?

For a budget friendly approach, perhaps a browse through a catalog like http://mouser.com/Interconnects/ will help you narrow in on what you need.

If you want a gold-plated (likely literally) option, you'll find connectors matching your specifications above in these lines: http://www.amphenol-socapex.com/html/amphenol-products-industrial-products.htm You might double your electronics budget just buying the connectors, though.

I'm using the DB9s that come with a G540 for motors, an unshielded piece of Cat5 with RJ-45 connectors for control, and a phono plug for E-stop, all of which were household items. My motor and spindle cables are shielded, the rest aren't. I'm not seeing any problems. When I used a router, I used a simple heavy extension cord with edison plugs at each end.

There's some random thoughts for you :)

[jehayes]

I'm using ... an unshielded piece of Cat5 with RJ-45 connectors for control, and a phono plug for E-stop ...

Brad: Can you share a photo of how your are using the Cat5 for the control system? Thanks

Joe

[bradm]

Sure, when I next get to the shop. For now, here's the quick description: I'm using a standard plastic "new work" box at the end of a short piece of plastic conduit coming out of my control box. That box has a coverplate with an RJ-45 jack in the middle - standard home improvement stuff. Then there's a piece of ethernet cable with a RJ-45 plug on it that runs through my cable chain to a box on the gantry that contains a terminal strip. This splits off into the local Prox sensor, a wire across the gantry to the Prox on the other side, a wire and plate for Z Zero, and another trunk line through the other cable chain to the Ycar. At the Ycar, there is another box and terminal strip to split it for the Y Prox sensor, and any future additions.

[salewis]

My build partner and I are going to get the steel tomorrow (11/20). Also the bulk of the electronics are here. I did order the wrong stuff (when I get closer I'll post the bom's).

Time to make some dust......sparks.....bloody fingers (nope!).

[crashingsucks]

That would be Manly men of STEEL!!!

that is when my wife says it is ok.....

ps I am the other half of the build, 5 years with CNC stuff, but only in making teeth

[chopper]

Brad#10,
I see you are using an Ethernet cable for some of the wires on your machine,
I am curious as to how this is holding up, I would think you would have limited
life from that setup since, the Ethernet cable is not designed to flex and move like it will in a cable chain, the wire strands are solid and will not take that kind of continuous movement with out breaking the strands,
//chopper

[bradm]

Chopper, my MM sees limited use, but I agree with your assessment. I'll advise when/if it becomes an issue.

[rodom]

Stan and Ted team,

I'm all logged in, watching intently, and looking forward to your new build. Call if you need anything.

Richard

[salewis]

One steel pile getting smaller - one getting bigger.....

Check out Ted's Rack... Someone had to take the picture... :D

I guess there's no "skating" around what is coming next....

Seriously, the Harbor Freight Angle grinder only matches up two holes on the skate and enlarging the other holes would end up cutting through the skate on the rear-side.....

So, time to cut-n-grind....

Stan

[Regnar]

For your single plug for everything you might want to look up ITT Cannon Plugs. I know they come in 31 and many other pin sizes. It will cost you but we use them on our aircraft so they are well worth it. Mouser has a plastic version of the plugs to that are a little cheaper but I cannot find them right now.

For a quick un-official cost a 31 pin size 16 plug will cost you around 125.00 when you are done.

[sailfl]

I think my memory is still good but that desk you are using looks like a old Triumph. What year is it?

[Gerald D]

Could be a MG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_Cars)?

Nah, maybe not

Triumph TR3 looks (http://images.google.co.za/images?rlz=1T4IRFA_enZA315ZA315&resnum=0&q=triumph+tr3&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi) good :)

[salewis]

Gerald's right ---- Ted's TR3.... Dang British cars.....

He's the Triumph..... I'm a MG man..

Good news is that the same tools work on both cars....

hammer, hammER, hamMMER, and of course... HAMMER...

when in doubt however you can use a punch....

[sailfl]

I had a 62 MG Midget. Great little car. I had more fun driving that thing. I put a set of air horns on it and it kept the trucks from driving me off the road.

[crashingsucks]

Yes it is a 1961 TR3, notice the bonnet (hood in the states) it is in the normal condition----UP!!! I am rebuilding the carbs. It does make a good place to rest our build instructions!!!

[Gerald D]

Are they SU carbs with needles? With dashpots and oil? :)

[Robert M]

For some reasons, it appears to me that you seem to have more potential « fun » with the other toys ( Plane, Tractor, Vtt & the Jeep) then the Britt dust buster :D

[sailfl]

Robert,

Lack of appreciation for the run of an old sports car!!!???

[crashingsucks]

Yes the carbs are old SU's, the cork gets dry and they leak gas, right over the hot headers. Not much drive (yes pun) to fix her right now, little to cold for riding around. I fixed old british cars for a living, then found out I needed a real job to support that habit so I went to dental school.

[Claudiu]

Yet another dentist with a MM. :D We just need to find some big teeth to use this machine in our job....

[salewis]

You should see two things.....

1) his other CNC machine - really it makes teeth (crowns)....

2) my "desk". talk about really not appreciating a run of an old sports car. Ted can attest to my complete disdain of my '64 MGB. Just try to get it out of my hands ;-) When I got it the previous owner used it as a feed bowl for cats (it had fish heads in it). Me, I use it to hold much more useful junk.

One day.... One day... I'll get a "round tuit" and restore it. I get a Moss Motors catalog every now and then and dream.....

First the MM, then the other projects, then the honey-dos, then the MGB.

NOW I'M DEPRESSED.... :D

[crashingsucks]

It is ok about the MG Stan, just sit in it and make motor sounds!!!

[rodom]

You guys need an MG and TR3 pak for your R/C flight simulators so you can drive/burn rubber/race with these things on the runways.....

Thanks for the Mach3 help today Stan.

rodom

[salewis]

I thought I would sit in it and make GENUINE BRITISH CAR sounds....

sounds like clunk, sputter, cough, rrrrr, boom

That is better than GENUINE BRITISH CAR OWNER sounds.....:eek:

Stan

[Besser]

Stan for the connections I have used Auto trailor plugs, they come in 7 pin config and are cheap, durable and plenty of current capability. http://www.spinnythings.com.au/ page 58 of catalog has the plugs. They are also very available here so I can connect the control box up to the mill or lathe just by unplugging and replugging.

[salewis]

what about a way to keep the trailer connector from disconnecting?

[Besser]

Stan the trailor connectors have a lock together system built into them. If they pull apart then something major just happened.
The tines on the plug are large so they look really capable

[salewis]

See pics for everyones enjoyment. I've found out what other MMers already knew .... cutting the rails is boring....

I've found something more boring....

Watching my build buddy Ted cut the rails....:cool:

[salewis]

Notice "proper" treatment of Triumph (cover it up so no one knows its there)...

Ted covers his Triumph with blankets, I cover my MGB with crap...

[salewis]

Serious while Ted cut. I worked on the legs.... Plates will be (have been) moved to the rear of the channel between the webs to weld the cross braces on so that the table can be broken down.

[salewis]

Now for a rail cutting question...

One x-rail is beautiful, one isn't. The good one is nice and flat cut, the other is a bit wavy.

I think we pushed the cutting too fast using thin wheels.

My question is going to be hard to answer (because you can't see what I see), but here goes....

Would it be better to cut the rail again (with a thick disk) which would put the dimension closer to 1" (25.4 mm) and re-cut the other rail to match or just shim? The wavy is not really abrupt (maybe changes over a half-a-foot or so).

I guess the question is how much waviness can shimming deal with?

[Claudiu]

Hi Stan,
If you consider the waves are in vertical direction you can use a grinding disk and go over it again and smooth it down, but take care not to cut down the rail under 25mm. otherwise many things change from the plans...if the dif. is not too much use shimming.
If the waves are lateral direction, you are going to use a gauge rod anyway to adjust perfect dimension between rails and you can fix it in place.
I guess best is to remeasure the rail and see what differences you have in height and judge after that what to do next.

Merry Christmas.

[MetalHead]

For the cost of it, I'd buy a new angle and redo the rail.

[salewis]

Ah the 25mm question comes up again but this time a bit different.

I realize that going below 25mm as a minimum causes problems but what about the "maximum"? I read a post that mentioned that it really depends on the rack used (metric or inch) but didn't give me a number.....

Stan

[Gerald D]

Stan, your angle iron may have quite a big fillet radius in the inside, leaving only a little bit of vertical surface for the skate rollers to "grip" on when doing the bevel . . . . that is one of the dangers of going below the 25mm.

If you are using 30 tooth pinions you can make the rail a bit lower and the pinion will still engage properly with the rack, but you won't be easily able to use smaller 20 tooth pinions.

[salewis]

so if my math is correct....

no smaller than 25 mm which would be 0.98" and still use the smaller pinions?

I'm good then because the rail in question is around 1.1 ish.

Stan

[salewis]

Well it has been a long time in getting to this point. The rail cutting and grinding isn't fun but it is doable.....

Our (Ted and Stan) thoughts on grinding.... Ditch the bolt for height adjustment and go for a bearing... Adjust depth of cut (err. grind) by sliding plate with grinder (in/out, angle). Little to no glazing of wheels, cut much faster.

I'll see if I can get some pics up later (per my schedule probably next month).

Onto to the table....

long beams cut, cross bearers cut, both drilled (we're doing a bolt together table).... We may have to weld later, but the machine is being built in one location to be moved to another location later.....

Stan

[Besser]

I agree the bearing is the way, but the height adjustment system needs work.

[salewis]

Yep, but consider that the first ones were built w/o the skate, we are making progress.

What Ted and I found was that the height adjustment is not all that much of an issue because we twisted the grinder plate (looking down at the top of the skate) a bit to get a bigger/better bite on the grinder wheel. We drilled a new hole on the grinder plate in the arc that the slot (older skate drawings) circumscribed.

Before that we'd glaze up a wheel in just a few passes. It took us HOURS to get the first rail to passable. The other three took less time combined than the first.

It may have been the infamous "learning curve" but I don't think so.

[KenC]

Stan, Some time ago, Joe (jehayes) told me grinding the rails is the rite of passage. Now you had earned it, Congrats.

This IMHO is the most laborious & messy part of the build, it took me 3~4 full working day to have them done. (To me the Kitchen table project comes next on the list).

[jehayes]

I actually found the kitchen table project more daunting because electricity scares the s**t out of me!:)

Congratulations on getting over the rail grinding hump. It's all smooth sailing downhill from here!

Joe

[KenC]

because electricity scares the s**t out of me!:)

Joe

That makes at least 2 of us ;)

[salewis]

Boy I hope so as I was "fearing" the rail grinding. Even though I had been lurking around here for a year or so, I didn't really think it would work (even though there were pics to prove).

Finally, I (we) just had to do it. For me the "kitchen table" project is less daunting as I have built several cnc machines (foam cutters, a small table cnc router w/ ac servos, even a laser cutter) so this part of the build is much less scary.

At this point the thing that I dread (not scared) is drilling/taping all the holes, and then the paint (I'm not a ford guy ;-)

For those that are a bit timid on the kitchen table/control system, just be patient and OCD (ok anal) about the connections (double check, and then check again). The idea of doing the control cabinet as a kitchen table project helps one to focus on the smaller picture for a moment. I'm not sure anyone has mentioned this but theoretically the control box could be moved with a bit of fuss to a small mill/lathe. There is nothing "mechmate" specific about the control system other than Gerald et. al. good choice in components.

Stan

[KenC]

Stan,
Drill tap is less dreadful if you treat it as dynamic meditation like I did. Don't forget to prepare suitable lubricant for both drilling & tapping, I used WD40 as that was the only "oil" in the shop at that time, I would use cooking oil if I have too ;)
Like many others, paint before fully assemble is what I did, it sure saved me from some serious yoga exercise & weight lifting. It turn out quite a bit of fun for me too. (I hand paint with roller brush, used up 2 pint of top coat (3 coats) without dilution for 1220x4400 table)

[swatkins]

Hi Stan.

About 20 years ago I felt the same way about taping holes.. I would have rather used nuts than tap a hole. THEN I found the right tools!

8713

I was out in the shop and just finished taping a few holes when I read this post so I gathered up a few items and took this picture.. This is the secret to easy taping! First off you need a set of SPIRAL POINT Taps... These suckers cut metal like hot butter and push the metal out in front of the tap so you do not have to make a turn and then back up... With a spiral point tap you just start twisting and don't look back... They are so good that I hardly ever put one in a tap wrench and instead stick them in a power drill... Takes me about 30 seconds to tap almost any size hole!

The next item you need is something to keep the tap square to the hole as you perform the operation.. Years ago a friend made the Tap Guide you see in the picture... .750" thick aluminium with all the tap sizes drilled through ( well almost all, you see he forgot one :D ) ... Easy to make and use...

The last item is a good cutting fluid.. The can on the right is for aluminium and is easily found. The Jug on the left is the very last of my supply of Tap Heavy :( This stuff is the best I have ever used and I have not found any in the last 5 years.. It's made by Trim and is a thick, sticky fluid.. It makes drilling holes a pleasure even with a hand drill... I have had that jug for about 15 years and would kill for a new one!

If you pick up a few taps and give them a try I promise you'll never dread another tap again :)


UPDATE :

After posting this message I got to thinking about my serious shortage of Tap Heavy and went searching on the internet... I FOUND THE COMPANY !!!! It is now being made by Master Chemical and here is a link to their product pages... (http://www.masterchemical.com/na_en/fluid_products/ctgf/show_category.php?catid=5) As soon as some of their distributors open Monday morning I will be on the telephone! Oh Happy Days :)

[Robert M]

I have had that jug for about 15 years and would kill for a new one!

UPDATE :

After posting this message I got to thinking about my serious shortage of Tap Heavy and went searching on the internet... I FOUND THE COMPANY !!!!

Steve, we're all happy to see know that the world is a safer place to be thanks to this this "new supplyer" ! :eek: :D

Robert ;)

[swatkins]

Steve, we're all happy to see know that the world is a safer place to be thanks to this this "new supplyer" ! :eek: :D

Robert ;)

Yes, you can all rest easier tonight :D

[salewis]

This set is the mods (VERY CRUDE) to the skate.... Worked a whole lot better. I believe the "newer" skate plates are drawn with the possiblity of using bearings front/rear....

Height adjust may not make sense but it works by twisting the wheel into the rail as opposed to up/down.

[salewis]

some of the drilling...

We are making a portable MM :D Yeah, right! It is a beast even now. It will be moved to its next home after painting..

[salewis]

We've got the frame basically assembled. I took a pic before the legs went on and bracing... Got to get those pics....

As for size. This was where Ted's TR3 sat including the oil puddle (couldn't resist that one). Makes one think about sitting on the gantry on a machine that is built in a garage that is bigger/heavier than a TR3....

I just couldn't convice Ted to build the table and park the TR3 underneath.:D:D

[swatkins]

Stan how easy was it to make the height adjustments with your skate ?

[salewis]

Adjusting the depth was a piece of cake... Put the skate on the rail, loosen the pivot bolt a bit (the one with the nut welded on), loosen the bolt that sits on the arc a little more, press the plate till the wheel lightly touches the rail, tighten, turn wheel to make sure did not go too deep (should rotate with drag).

Grind both sides of rail...

Next adjustment is same way....

You can take as much/little as you want. We also used a very light tap by a hammer on the plate when getting close.

[crashingsucks]

Thats right! No real height adjustment, Just a twisting movement into the beam. The old way the grinding disk would become glazed over. I have always used angle grinders on a angle. So this way you can really make a aggressive cut. When I got close to the finished dimension, I switched to a new disk and then made lighter cuts. If done the old way, well I was going to kill something!!!!! This way I would even cut rails for friends. Not bad at all.

[salewis]

finally through the "dead bug" stage.....

[salewis]

I was (we were)..... Framed....

[KenC]

Stan, I see you enjoy playing trampoline with the table! Good progress, the hard work is over. The works will be a breeze from here on.

[rodom]

It's looking good guys. With warmer weather on the way maybe it won't be so painful to work on it now.

Richard

[salewis]

Yeah, the hard (at least the heavy work) is over...

Now it is bolt part A on Part B, using bolt C in hole D or is it Bolt D part using D Bolt in D hole (read D as 'the')..

Seriously, my thoughts were that the table (and rails) would be the demanding part for us.

Now we have a small decision as to what area to focus on next, carriage cars or go ahead and mount the rails...

decisions, decisions, decisions.....:rolleyes:

[KenC]

I focus on 2 parts,
1) the fabrication &
2)Installation.
Fabrication is heavy & dirty; A clean & tidy working area is helpful during installation. So I did all the "dirty" work while the floor still covered with steel chips & grinding dust. You don't want to constantly look out for drill chips or dust during installation, do you?

Sticking to the "ground-up" approach, i.e. work from what ever that is nearer to the ground automatically eliminate lots of decision making ;)

[salewis]

Well the pictures have been slow because the progress has been slow. One of us (Stan) just had to go scuba diving in the caribbean for a week :D

But the major fabrication is finished, now onto the small parts (stopper blocks, etc), transmissions, and other...

[salewis]

three days of work, including going back and forth to town (1hr round trip) for wire to test with....

Then I realized that I ordered 270ohm instead of 270K ohm.. Over to my other shop (I have too many shops).... Use a bit lower value, wth, this just testing......

things that are supposed to click, click and things that are supposed to turn, turn.

Time to finish the transmissions...... order belts (since I ordered the wrong ones). Come to think of it, I haven't ordered the wrong thing more than once, just different wrong things....

Notice I managed not to get a photo of my feet..:D

[salewis]

transmissions complete, just got to put belts on.....
z slide complete, just mounted tonight.....
tool mount complete (used k2cnc from other machine)....
wire run completed, time to start stripping and connecting...
PC configured and tested with control panel....

Sorry for the bad pic.....

[jehayes]

Where's that blue paint?:)

Looking good. You'll be cutting soon.

[salewis]

My buildmate and I are pushing to finish this thing as there is already work to be had...

I was thinking this morning that this might be a situation in which the machine gets pressed into service, make some money, build a second one in order to get one painted.... ;-)

Probably a pipe dream. Seriously, we will have to get this thing running and usable and then consider painting in the future. I don't like the idea of having to clean it up in order to paint, but we all live in the real world.

Stan

[salewis]

I tried to send you an email but it would not go through.

I bought the zslide from Leo Jones aka Castone? I would definitely NOT want to make that part. Also if we (I) build another one (yes, it is remotely being considered), I'd get as many parts pre-fab'd as possible. Check out MetalHead's post in the marketplace section.

Stan

[kanankeban]

Stan,
Thanks...ill try to contact Leo...
Hector

[salewis]

With the nephew's help got the transmission belts adjusted, mechmate wired (basic only at this point)...

AND WE HAVE MOTION.....

Now to the part I dread -----> finish and tuning...

Any good reference on the forum concerning feed/speed? I understand the YMMV clause but ....

Can we post videos or do we do that on youtube and link to it?

Stan

[riesvantwisk]

Stan,

for posting video's we usually use youtube or vimeo.

About feeds/speeds... I am still playing around with that and I am still cutting slow (to slow??), but I like to take my time, I just make sure I don't cut to slow because of heating up my bits.

Facing I do at 8000mm/minute and cutting between 2000-4000mm/minute. I have HSS bits currently and a deWalt router. And since I don't have any collets but 1/4", this is what I currently cut with.

If I want to cut faster I listen to my router and when I notice the RPM's go down, then I know I hit my feed limit. Some people sayed that when cutting wood, you need to do this as fast as people to remove heat as fast as possible.
I know Kobus cut's at no more then half the bit diameter, I started to do this to with good results. Less hit on my bits and they stay sharp. It just takes a bit more time, but I am not in a hurry.

I never broke a bit myself, just a collet but there is a big chance in the beginning you will do something wrong and you might break something, lot's of people start with the cheap bits (HSS) , then buy the carbide stuff.

About tuning, did you tune your Gecko's? I didn't do in the beginning, but later did... Honestly I didn't notice a difference.

Make sure your e-stop works! Might come in handy ;)
Check your manual feed rate so it's not to high for moving the machine around, yes it can go very fast!!! Also, start slow here...
Make sure your soft-limits (in software) are setup correctly so you will not run into your end stops. Later I made auto-homing, and I love it :) Specially when you hit teh e-stop and need to find your touch-off position again.

Lastly, I am not a pro! They are just my experiences....

BTW.. great job, and I am glad you found work already for it!

Ries

[crashingsucks]

Paint, ain't......a big problem. I am sure it will be easier than painting triumphs. Besides we will have to move it, if I ever want to get a car back in my garage, and what a better time to pull apart and paint and finish.

[KenC]

Grab a paint bucket & a roller brush. Paint were used to be painted with paint brush ;)
Besides, it is a small but good way to pay tribute to a good design & keeping rust off.

[salewis]

short vid here....:cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBiZTg8uBAE

Stan

[salewis]

Big Heavy MDF --- 121" x 61" x 1"..

Tuning the movement....

Will cut the pockets and drill points for the MDF soon....

[smreish]

Yes. My table had that too. 4 guys to load on table from delivery truck.

[salewis]

Ok people... Tried to use the Mach Surface wizard, finally gave up after a bit, used the code but created my own pgm...

The table is scalloped (about 7-10 thou) as the bit passes down and back. We are using a 0.75 carbide 2flute to surface the MDF (removing about 0.1 at 300 ipm).

My leading thought is that the "plus (towards xmax)" pass is deeper than the "minus (towards X0)" pass due to one pass being climb and the other conventional cutting.

Any thoughts as this is not really acceptable. I have thought of creating a gcode that goes round n round the square. Ted thought of cutting off the table back around the edge and back onto the table. I thought of making one pass, up the z a bit, return, drop the z, and do it again.

I'm also thinking of places in the mechanics that would cause this issue (spider play, z play, runout on the router). The gantry and ycar seem well seated without noticable twisting (but of course we are only talking of a few thou. here and there).

:confused:

[JamesJ]

Sounds like the Z axis is out of square with the table in the Y axis. This could cause the scallops you are seeing.

[riesvantwisk]

Or the Spindle itself...

I remember there was a thread about it, initiated by Gerald but I cannot find it. There is a small 'trick' to test this squareness very easy. Although easy modified at the spindle, one should also check the z-plane for squareness.

I forgot the correct terms to search on, I know 100% sure it's on the forum, somewhere... I can clearly see the pictures of teh methods, however Google doesn't have any Mechmate pictures during search.. :confused:

[Regnar]

Reis I think the word your are looking for is "Tramming" or "Indicating".

[Gerald D]

Setting the Z-slide square (perpendicular) to the table top (http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2553&highlight=trammel)

But, first check that all screws are tight and that the z-slide is firmly pinched in its V-rollers. With the router/spindle OFF and the stepper motors powered up, grab hold of the collet and push/pull it hard in all directions. It should feel rock solid.

[salewis]

Great thoughts and leads which is what I was looking for. I will double check the "stiffness" aspect as it is the easiest to check.

The pattern doesn't seem to be so much as a router tilted (due to zslide not being perpendicular to table, router mount, etc) but more like the router cuts deeper and then shallower (around the entire bit). As this was checked during that portion of the build (could have gotten moved so it is worth checking).

Think something like this.....(grossly overexaggerated vertical length).... Where the "higher" cuts are one direction and the "lower" cuts are the other direction.

Granted that the pattern may be caused by a combination of factors..

Onto the trammel.. Obviously one probably should not attempt to build one that is several feet long from the rotation axis nor just an inch or so, but is there a "sweet" spot range of length?

Stan

[Gerald D]

A 4" to 6" trammel should be plenty accurate enough.

[salewis]

Now that the scallop issue is dealt with (much easier than I expected)...

The next one just plain sucks.... dust collection.... read and read and read....

What've got... single stage DC system running 4" hose.

First attempt at a dust foot/shoe was miserable, actually never happy with the one on my other cnc router either...

Basic question is this which pvc-to-hose adaptor are people using. Rockler has two (assuming one inserts into a female pvc fitting and the other inserts into the pvc pipe)?

stan

[Regnar]

Stan as far as a dust shoe have you seen JesseJames "Split Shoe" I have never owned one but looks like a great design. Here is a Video on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8ehFKTjZN4&feature=channel

Link to the Thread Post 27 has all the info on it.
http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=33016&postcount=27


Can you stretch the Vacuum hose over the Pvc. It would seem to me a large hose clamp would work better than any of the fittings. I might not be thinking the right way.

[rodom]

Stan,

I'm using the corrugated vinyl hose, 90 degree elbows, blast gates (I can select which of two routers the dust collector is to work with by opening one and closing the other) and straight couplings from Woodcraft in Raleigh,NC. The hose will fit snugly over schedule 40 PVC pipe, but as I recall, it does not fit into the next larger size coupling so as to not make a restriction in the hose. My dust shoe has a straight PVC pipe coupling glued into it. To keep the joints together I just used a layer of Gorilla tape. The coupling is tight enough in the hose to not move. (At least not with my puny 1hp Delta dust collector.)

Drop by here and take a look at it this week.

Richard

[KenC]

I shrink my 4" pipe to go into the flexible hose & clamp it with hose clamp.
I don't glue all my fittings. & small leaks has no detremental effect on the performance.
I also started with SCH40 pipe & then I realise it is stupid of me to waste money on thicker pipe, now my choice is thin uPVC pipes. The vecuum is too little to do any damage to even paper pipes...

[salewis]

made this out of 3/8 lexan (polycarbonate). This is the second. The first I tried to cut like acrylic doh....

Too much fun....

Now to try and resurface the table again (too much dust everywhere the first time)

Stan

[Surfcnc]

Stan

A quick release cam lock, nice touch !

Regards
Ross

[AuS MaDDoG]

Niceeeee I like it !!
Cheers
Tony.

[salewis]

Yeah, I "borrowed" the idea from someone else. Tried it out yesterday. It sucked :D

But I've got to make another one because the dimension between the router and the DC pipe is too small.

I'm getting all this experience making parts for myself that I wonder if I will ever make parts for someone else :rolleyes:

Stan

[Gerald D]

Which machine are you using to cut the parts.....your old cnc or your new MM?

[crashingsucks]

We are cutting with the yet to be painted MM!!! Our first job is almost at hand, so we are going to finish that job and then add blue paint. :)

Think of our paint-less MM as a car that is getting restored that's being driven in primer only..... Here in the US it happens a lot :p

[salewis]

Actually most cars being restored are required to have multiple colors of primer:D

[polishpickle]

Where did you get the vinyl skirt?

[barry99705]

Where did you get the vinyl skirt?

I've asked a chick in a bar that once.:cool:

[crashingsucks]

Ok, I lost my last post, let me try again.

My build partner made the vinyl skirt from some sheet vinyl.

I love the post above, it made me think of the time I saw some blue jeans with vinyl back pockets....yes they were in use......and they were on a girl.....

As far as the present vinyl skirt, it needs to be adjusted, it was too long and got in the way thus it was ripped off in the process....

It's all in the interpretation:D

[smreish]

If the vinyl strips are not stiff enough, they get sucked into the cutter!
I had to convert my 1st shoe to bristle brushes like MM #1 to keep that from happening.

[polishpickle]

I had that style vinyl on my first shoe but it wasn't that long. Also it had 2 layers and the cuts were staggered so one piece wuld seal the next

[salewis]

The vinyl came from McMaster (or is that MechMaster :D)

From building this shoe and the one before that (and the one before that on my old machine), it is compromise....

Large dust foot to vinyl strip length, more of a measure of distance from cutter centerline. Also amount of suction is a consideration (harder to suck the vinyl in when it is pointing outwards).

Then there is the 3d issues....

and I thought the building was over...

After visiting JR, I think that there is no such thing as a completed MM ;)

[KenC]

.... I think that there is no such thing as a completed MM ;)

mine will ever be complete too ;)

[salewis]

never complete.....

I'm doing the research for zero plate and laser crosshairs... Too cool on JR's machine, kudos to Greg et. al. for all the work....

Will post some q's in the appropriate section..

[salewis]

Got them both working ... sort of...

Laser is great and dirt simple...

Zero Plate is giving me a bit of heartburn.. Everything works right in pieces (ie. macro, plate, BoB). Put together it gets more than a bit flaky.

Like right after touching at a nice smooth (and slow) pace, mach3 tries to g0 the bit down about a 0.5 inch OUCH.....

Time to troubleshoot some more. any thoughts on "debounce" settings to give Mach a bit of room to work with?

[rayditutto]

try 2" copper wire 10 or 12 gauge clipped to the bit - it will bend much better than your bit

cheers

[salewis]

got the zero plate worked out... several things that I forgot to get right when putting the pieces together..

first production mold. still needs work on some areas.

[rodom]

Looks good Stan,

The ren board molds I have been working with the past 5 years (made elsewhere) have varied all over the place from smooth to full of chatter marks. These are on the better end of the scale. Nothing that a little body filler and sanding can't fix.


Richard

[salewis]

OK guys (and gals sorry), Ted (aka crashingsucks) and I got pushed into painting the MM :D

We needed a few high quality pictures to be used for display... So Ted cleaned up the garage.. I cut a few more vinyl logos so that the machine would look more finished. Put the logos on the machine...

THEN it happened..... We touched up a section using some flat black spray bomb (sorry aerosol can) paint. We looked at each other and said DANG..

Looks too good to stop (never hear that around a MM ehh)...

Painted the MM, using flat-black (yes we know it isn't standard), but it is kind of hard to find Ford Tractor Blue at 8:30 pm...

Check out the pics... We took some cool shots with low light/directional light but needed a tripod so we won't show them yet....

We are making parts (soon money... :cool: )

[domino11]

A Mechmate video game, I like it. :)

[salewis]

But $0.25US per "play" is getting costly. We hate it when is says "Game Over" before the part is finished..... Almost enough in the coin box to buy us a soft drink (just one, not one for Ted and myself)....

:D

Seriously, we wanted everything together in one cabinet and on wheels. I have a buddy that deals with video/pool tables and he wanted this out of his shop.

Next ticket item in the never finished MM is a new cabinet with touch screen.

But money needs to come in, first.....

[rodom]

Wow Stan!! (MM blue or not)

Something's wrong with these photos. That just can't be Ted's garage 'cause I've seen it before. Where did ya move it to? :D

Doc's been real busy and everything is out in the driveway for these photos if it is his garage.

Richard

[MetalHead]

Looks like you get #67 !!!

[Gerald D]

Well done Stan!

(especially with all the covering sheets in the background) :)

[timberlinemd]

Congrats on the new serial number!

[Drad98_98]

Looks great Stan, I wonder if the flat black will hold the dust in, like not brush off as easy as a gloss,But I do like the look!! Retro!

[domino11]

Congrats on Number 67! :)

[Kobus_Joubert]

Pragtig

[crashingsucks]

Ok they are not all sheets, one is a tarp and another is the canvas for a tent, but in the end they are just like the spray bomb, not pretty but it gets the job done.

Now let me see, I moved a almost moveable Triumph TR3 out of my garage and now I have a chunk of steel that weights as much but I can't ride it,let alone move it......wait it does have a Y-car and we do have a remote control...I think the y-car could hold another 220 pounds....right.


Ok did any of you all notice my last build suggestion, look close, Stan and I hooked up the lights for the coin slots. Hey they were there and I just know the MM will just work better with the lights on....

Oh, after moving all the scrap steel, I think we can build another one!!!! Ready Stan?

[salewis]

I'm up for the task now that we are "what you call experts"...

"Ex is a has-been and a spurt is a drip under pressure."

The sheets cover proprietary stuff just like at my garage proprietary stuff covers my MGB :D

Yeah, we may find the flat black doesn't release dust well.

Retro.... talk about all the retro stuff that we threw out of the Vid Game console...

Ted wants to build a MAME vid game console, will use the coin door for kicks.. Any ideas on what we could use to cut the console parts with :rolleyes:

[jehayes]

Congratulations on Number 67. Now, who is closing in on the much coveted #69?:)

[MetalHead]

Maybe I should auction it off :D ...... Can I goto jail for that :D

[myozman]

Stan,
I build Mame Arcades for little profit, I just like building them for friends. Here is the latest. Let me know if you have any questions.

Mike
I'm up for the task now that we are "what you call experts"...

"Ex is a has-been and a spurt is a drip under pressure."

The sheets cover proprietary stuff just like at my garage proprietary stuff covers my MGB :D

Yeah, we may find the flat black doesn't release dust well.

Retro.... talk about all the retro stuff that we threw out of the Vid Game console...

Ted wants to build a MAME vid game console, will use the coin door for kicks.. Any ideas on what we could use to cut the console parts with :rolleyes:

[crashingsucks]

Nice!! I guess the 1st will be a new box for the mm guts, but the 2nd will be for me to build a game Machine. I never had enough quarters back in the day, and soon I won't need them!

Thanks I am sure I will be in touch for some help.
Ted

[domino11]

Mike,
Nice machine!

[jhiggins7]

Stan,

Nice looking MechMate. Congratulations on completing your MechMate and on earning Serial #67.

Here is the Updated Builder's Log (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AttqjIPMBEXKcExveGc4d3U0V25zQmMyX1U1eUVhU Xc&hl=en).

Please verify the cutting dimensions. I just assumed that the machine was built to handle that large sheet of MDF you mentioned.

Also, please review your entry and let me know any changes you want to make.

[salewis]

Myozman, I'm sure crashingsucks will have some questions.....

[salewis]

Unfortunately that really hasn't been the case.. we have been cutting molds for uav/rpv projects, aluminum dash panels, aluminum wing skins for full scale aircraft....

Now for the update...adding a vacuum table... grid cut into 1.5 inch Baltic ply. Now for some plumbing work....

Will post pics when I get to a real 'puter instead on my smartphone

[salewis]

now for the pics....

[smreish]

Now that has the appearance of a vacuum system being fabricated.
Well done!

[KenC]

how wide is the grooves?
they look narrow...

[polishpickle]

I just use a .5 bit for mine and .375 deep the air evens out on my ultra lite mdf spoil board. he air flows so good through it that I had to use strips of 6mm sintra to keep it in each zone.

[salewis]

grooves are 0.25 by 0.5 deep. We are planning on using two 2.0" outlets per zone to the vacuum system.

We have two Lighthouse vacuum motors, but may go with the Fein shop vacuums instead.

We will put one piece of 5 x 10 x 0.75 udf on top and then section the zones with 0.25 by 0.75 grooves. Lastly, we plan on filling the grooves in the UDF with polyester resin to cut down on vacuum loss when using only 1-2 zones.

The zones are done so that we have the option of holding 1/8th (1 x 4), 1/4 (2x4), 1/2 (4x4), full sheets of plywood, and lastly the weird 1x10 zone.

There are a couple of things that I'm not really happy over. First is the loss of almost 2.25 inches of z, but our "workload" has changed more towards sheet work and less molds (which is why we built the machine in the first place). The other is that once finished it makes moving the machine that much harder (picture a slab of 1.5 baltic ply laminated with .75 udf that is 5x10 feet).

Still swaying back and forth over which vacuum system to use: Fein or Central Vacuum motors.

Stan

[KenC]

1/4" deep groove is a tat too shallow for my liking, but you can always make yourself another if it doesn't perform ;) I can see the advantage, the grid board will last longer.
Mine is 1/2", No zone. I know it is impossible to get rid of "inter-zone" leaks unless dedicated grid boards (with sealed edges) for each zone. Which will complicate things. In another word, I'm too lazy...

I can still "zone" my vacuum table by covering the exposed board with some vinyl floor sheets which cost me less than 10USD, consider them as consumables.

Central Vacuum motor gets my vote anytime, but you gotta choose wisely.... BTW, which central Vacuum motor are you looking at?

[salewis]

Btw the grooves are 0.5 deep. I was considering cutting with a 0.5 bit.

Unfortunately once I put the udf on top... it is a done deal because it will be glued down to prevent vacuum loss. Unless I want to mill off 0.75 off udf :-Q

I will attempt to seal the edges around and between zones by cutting a groove through the udf and filling with resin.

The motor are lighthouse 116765-13 120 volt aka LH6765-13. I would have rather access to 220/230 Vac but don't so my options limited.

[polishpickle]

I cut a groove in mine and glued in a 6mm sintra strip this seals the bleed through

[smreish]

Jerry,
I just cut a perimeter border in the table areas and then filled with plastic body filler.

Great idea.

[KenC]

LH6765-13 is a good choice. Just pay attention to your wall plug amperage rating especially when you have two motors running at the same time..

[salewis]

Probably going to have to run the motors on two circuits.

Just what is needed MORE POWER!